This study
http://www.vancouversun.com/news/nation ... story.html (http://www.vancouversun.com/news/national/study+raises+questions+about+religion+deterrent+against/7981683/story.html)
QuoteA provocative new study is challenging assumptions about the deterrent effect of religion on criminal behaviour.
The U.S. study found that through "purposeful distortion or genuine ignorance," hardcore criminals often co-opt religious doctrine to justify or further their crimes.
The findings could have important implications, the researchers say, for how faith-based services are administered within the corrections system.
Prison ministries shouldn't just be about presenting religious doctrine because some inmates might take religious teachings to excuse their behaviour, lead author Volkan Topalli, a criminal justice professor at Georgia State University, said in an interview Monday.
"People have to understand that presenting religious doctrine to people isn't enough to change their behaviour," he said. "(Faith-based services) have to be systematic and about behaviour change — religion has to be a vehicle, rather than the goal."
The research of Topalli and his colleagues was published this month in the journal Theoretical Criminology in an article titled With God on My Side: The Paradoxical Relationship Between Religious Belief and Criminality Among Hardcore Street Offenders.
They interviewed 48 people who were actively involved in serious and violent street-level crimes, including drug dealing, robbery, car jacking and burglary.
Almost all of them professed a belief in God and identified with the Christian faith. However, many of the criminals had an incomplete understanding of the rules and expectations of their faith, the study found.
One 33-year-old criminal, identified in the study by the nickname "Triggerman," refused to accept the suggestion that a consequence of murder was eternal damnation.
I doubt anyone here will be surprised.
Most religious people did not consciously decide to believe, I think. Criminals, too, were programmed to believe, as I think most American children are.
They all rationalize their behavior and beliefs. Criminal or not. Fear and hatred of Gays. Threatening people with eternal torture or destruction. You name it.
And, if you do a quick google search, you'll find a lot of articles negatively correlating IQ with criminal behavior.
Sorry Strom, still trying to defend an earlier point haha :mrgreen:
It's interesting that the fear of eternal damnation isn't a deterrent at all though. If they really believed, then wouldn't that make the opposite of this study true?
QuoteOne 33-year-old criminal, identified in the study by the nickname "Triggerman," refused to accept the suggestion that a consequence of murder was eternal damnation.
Notice that it doesn't say "he is not afraid of eternal damnation". It says "he refuses to accept he will suffer eternal damnation"
Basically, like everyone, he's cherry picking parts of the religion that help him excuse his own behaviour, while rejecting the things he doesn't agree with (like the fact that if the Bible were true, he'd obviously be going to hell)
Just want to point out that they only interviewed 48 people, not exactly a large focus group.
None-the-less though I'm pretty sure I've seen other studies that show that atheists make up less than 1% of prison populations, despite being somewhere around 12% of the American population.
QuoteThey interviewed 48 people who were actively involved in serious and violent street-level crimes, including drug dealing, robbery, car jacking and burglary.
Almost all of them professed a belief in God and identified with the Christian faith. However, many of the criminals had an incomplete understanding of the rules and expectations of their faith, the study found.
And they're not alone in that (//http://www.pewforum.org/u-s-religious-knowledge-survey-who-knows-what-about-religion.aspx).
QuoteOther interview subjects tended to manipulate religious doctrine or were selective in which principles they adhered to, the study found.
A 25-year-old criminal nicknamed "Cool" said he always does a "quick little prayer" before committing a crime in order to "stay cool with Jesus." As long as you ask for forgiveness, Jesus has to give it to you, he said.
Cafeteria Christianity at its finest.
QuoteOne 33-year-old criminal, identified in the study by the nickname "Triggerman," refused to accept the suggestion that a consequence of murder was eternal damnation.
His real nickname was Fumbles. It was always Fumbles.
Like a comedian once postulated- "I prayed for a bicycle and didn't get one. So instead, I stole a bicycle and then prayed for forgiveness." All those pedophile priests are simply praying the sin away, why not criminals too?
In the days when I was raised up as a catholic kid I had the view I had it all over the non-catholics in the neighbourhood because I could do anything I like during the week because I was going to confession the next Saturday and with just a few "hail Mary's" and "our fathers" and all would be forgiven, so I pressed on steeling Mrs Smith's lemons from her tree and throwing them up onto her roof and running for it. I believed all the non-catholics could not do that, because they would not be granted immunity the next Saturday and they would go to hell. Then I saw reason and had to come the realization all those hail Mary's and our fathers were just words and did nothing and that put an end to my early life in crime and I had no idea some of those priests I confessed my sins every Saturday to were in fact dirty old paedophiles. Unlike myself their life of crime continued.
Quote from: "Plu"QuoteOne 33-year-old criminal, identified in the study by the nickname "Triggerman," refused to accept the suggestion that a consequence of murder was eternal damnation.
Notice that it doesn't say "he is not afraid of eternal damnation". It says "he refuses to accept he will suffer eternal damnation"
Basically, like everyone, he's cherry picking parts of the religion that help him excuse his own behaviour, while rejecting the things he doesn't agree with (like the fact that if the Bible were true, he'd obviously be going to hell)
Basically what you'll find in the black community as well, unfortunately. Many (especially the young ones) go to church on Sundays, get drunk on Tuesdays, have sex outside of marriage on Thursdays and think it's all supposed to come out square in the end. They're massive hypocrites but I honestly prefer them to the babbling religious fundies they are replacing.
Quote from: "Savior2006"Quote from: "Plu"QuoteOne 33-year-old criminal, identified in the study by the nickname "Triggerman," refused to accept the suggestion that a consequence of murder was eternal damnation.
Notice that it doesn't say "he is not afraid of eternal damnation". It says "he refuses to accept he will suffer eternal damnation"
Basically, like everyone, he's cherry picking parts of the religion that help him excuse his own behaviour, while rejecting the things he doesn't agree with (like the fact that if the Bible were true, he'd obviously be going to hell)
Basically what you'll find in the black community as well, unfortunately. Many (especially the young ones) go to church on Sundays, get drunk on Tuesdays, have sex outside of marriage on Thursdays and think it's all supposed to come out square in the end. They're massive hypocrites but I honestly prefer them to the babbling religious fundies they are replacing.
I'm not sure how that is different from white Christians. Is the race important to your point?
Quote from: "Thumpalumpacus"I'm not sure how that is different from white Christians. Is the race important to your point?
It really isn't different from young white Christians either. I'm just making an observation about the black community speaking as a black male.
Quote from: "stromboli"Like a comedian once postulated- "I prayed for a bicycle and didn't get one. So instead, I stole a bicycle and then prayed for forgiveness." All those pedophile priests are simply praying the sin away, why not criminals too?
Ahh yes - the power of prayer (or absolution) - nothing works like blood for getting the stain out.
Ah, so they are not the REAL christians. Of course we all knew that religion primarily only gives excuses for criminal behavior for criminals, this is nothing new, what's amusing here is the article, the researchers and their oh so hilarious title, stating that there's a paradox here. Newsflash several of the commands are actually punishable by death in many countries, including the US. The bible is the book of multiple choice, and you are already ignoring most of the rules anyways so how the hell can you talk about paradoxes. The paradox, if there had been one true christian faith, is that the researchers aren't in jail for murdering every homosexual they see. Christianity is a multi-denominational religion who can't see eye to eye on a single doctrive. WTF are you talking about, researchers?
Quote from: "WitchSabrina"Ahh yes - the power of prayer (or absolution) - nothing works like blood for getting the stain out.
Murder you neighbor? No problemo. Just slaughter a lamb, and you're good to go.
Remember the sin eaters? You pay some poor schmuck to take your sins. You somehow transfer your sins to him, and he goes to Hell, instead of you. In the bargain, he gets a coin or two to buy some bread for tomorrow.
Quote from: "Savior2006"Quote from: "Thumpalumpacus"I'm not sure how that is different from white Christians. Is the race important to your point?
It really isn't different from young white Christians either. I'm just making an observation about the black community speaking as a black male.
Fair enough, I just thought the extra detail odd, coming as I am from an old white fogey's PoV. :)
Quote from: "BlackL1ght"It's interesting that the fear of eternal damnation isn't a deterrent at all though. If they really believed, then wouldn't that make the opposite of this study true?
It's probably the same reason why capital punishment isn't much of a deterrent. NOBODY believes they will be the ones to end up on death row, so of course the threat doesn't mean anything to them. Christians might believe in hell, they might believe that other people are going there because of the sins they have committed, but rarely do they believe that THEY will go there for committing the same sins. What does it matter if a guy kills a family of four just to rob their liquor cabinet and steal ten bucks from the mom's purse? All he has to do apologize to Jesus and he'll be forgiven and be let into heaven when he dies. That's basically how Christianity is supposed to work. I am not at all surprised by that study's findings, and I'm betting that a larger study, involving many more prisons in different parts of the country over a longer period of time, will yield similar results.