Do you think there is a difference in attitude between people who have never been religious compared to people who were once religious and are now atheist?
Definately. What's more interesting to ask is "Is there a difference in attitude between theists and people who have never been religious?"
You'll probably find very little of it. People who have never actually thought about the big philosophical questions and their place in the universe (which I reckon is most of them), whether religious or not, seem to act about the same.
I was never religious and I have a hard time putting myself in the shoes of the person I'm [s:1jw1slvo]abusing[/s:1jw1slvo] debating.
I've never been religious but it's impossible for me to compare.
I'm just as much of an asshole as anyone else on here so...
I don't know the answer to this question, but I've wondered about it at times. You would think Ex theists might be in a position to better understand the dynamics of an unsupported belief, since they had once been that way. Not that this is helpful. You could understand that dynamic like a psychological Stephen Hawking, but still be utterly unable to help others see the problems with unsupported belief.
Level of disgust/hate, probably. I belonged to 2 religions and feel burned by both. So I guess I am more emotional towards religion than someone who was never attached.
Interesting topic! I was born into a Catholic family, but the indoctrination never really took. Therefore, I tend to be fairly live and let live about this sort of thing.
Quote from: "_Xenu_"Interesting topic! I was born into a Catholic family, but the indoctrination never really took. Therefore, I tend to be fairly live and let live about this sort of thing.
Basically like this, except for the Catholic part. But there's so many out their who have no intention of the "let live."
Quote from: "stromboli"Level of disgust/hate, probably. I belonged to 2 religions and feel burned by both. So I guess I am more emotional towards religion than someone who was never attached.
Definitely this. The idea that it took 20+ years of my life to finally be free from religious bullshit. I feel like I've been... cheated? I don't know... :(
Quote from: "StupidWiz"Quote from: "stromboli"Level of disgust/hate, probably. I belonged to 2 religions and feel burned by both. So I guess I am more emotional towards religion than someone who was never attached.
Definitely this. The idea that it took 20+ years of my life to finally be free from religious bullshit. I feel like I've been... cheated? I don't know... :(
I don't know either. Cheated? Not so much. Bullshitted? Absolutely. But I've been bullshitted about stuff so much of my life that I can't hold religion entirely responsible. I've been bullshitted by my church, my government, my boss, my family, my insurance agent. You name it. Just about anyone who wanted something from me has bullshitted me. There's more bullshit out there than fact. It's up to us to sort it out. Now sure, religious indoctrination at an early age is a type of brainwashing that is not easy to overcome and leaves people intellectually, emotionally, and logically disabled, so it's not like you just give someone a pep talk and tell them to pull themselves up by their own bootstraps. Some of them can't, and while that's a shame, it's up to ourselves to do our own reasoning. No one else can do that for us.
Edit: Well actually, someone else can to that for us, and often wants desperately to do so. And some of us are happy to let them do it.
Quote from: "drunkenshoe"These are just personal observations:
-Never been theists are usually more objective on different cultures created under different religions and better at understanding the fact that religion is one huge pile of bullshit and there are countless factors and dynamics at work in creating any religious culture. They are least likely to see issues in black&white.
This I can agree with. I see all religions regardless of cultural background as being equally bizarre and lacking in logic.
Quote from: "drunkenshoe"-Never been theists are least likely to be nationalists and more likely to criticise their own, more likely to be loud about it.
Nationalism tends to share some similarities with religion - particularly the cherry-picking mentality. However, I choose my fights carefully when it comes to criticizing such things when considering those around me.
Quote from: "drunkenshoe"-Never been theists are more likely to come from highly educated, secular families and their sense of individuality is likely to be more developed in early age and separated from the herd.
Poorly educated, religious extended family and my sense of individuality was derived from a horrible childhood. I could've just as easily have turned to religion for a crutch. So, nothing particularly remarkable about my upbringing.
Quote from: "drunkenshoe"-Never been theists are more likely to get loud about an issue that is not directly related to them.
We don't exactly butt-in to other people's conversations - at least I don't unless some imperative dictates I must forgo etiquette. Furthermore, this is an atheist forum, not a "former theist" forum, so many of the topics here already welcomes the "never been theists."
Quote from: "drunkenshoe"-Never been theists least likely to employ traditional roles in family, work place, society...etc.
Yes, and no. I don't go against the grain just for the hell of it. If I agree with the logic of these roles, then I follow along. I do not, then I will request clarification, and if all else fails, then I will go against the grain because I must follow the more logical route whenever possible.
Quote from: "drunkenshoe"-Never been theists are more likely to be strong atheists.
Nope. Still have not jumped off the deep end and made the assertion that I know for a fact there is no god. All I can ever really say is that I have yet to see any evidence in favor of a deity existing. In short, I am still a weak atheist.
Quote from: "drunkenshoe"-Never been theists are more likely to be insensitive to problems to ex-theists faced or religious people have to face.
I think you confuse insensitive with inexperienced. I am quite sympathetic to deconverts, but I never make the assumption that I personally know what they have went through. Crossing that line would seem to do deconverts a great disservice. They have their stories to tell if they so choose and I offer a willing sympathetic ear.
Quote from: "drunkenshoe"E: Oh and they are more likely to be assholes and bitches.
This may have less to do with whether a person is a "never been theist" and more to do with personality clashes. It's never been my intention to portray myself as an asshole or a bitch on this forum or in real life. Despite my dark moodiness here, I'm actually a very friendly person who is very apt to help others whenever possible. I've never been one to take into account a person's religion, lack of religion, or state of deconvertedness when assessing who is deserving of my help. I merely react to the plea and give what I can when I can.
Generalizations can be a tad tricky at times.
Quote from: "drunkenshoe"These are just personal observations:
-Never been theists are usually more objective on different cultures created under different religions and better at understanding the fact that religion is one huge pile of bullshit and there are countless factors and dynamics at work in creating any religious culture. They are least likely to see issues in black&white.
Never thought about it and can't comment.
Quote from: "drunkenshoe"-Never been theists are least likely to be nationalists and more likely to criticise their own, more likely to be loud about it.
I do tend towards a law and order approach to things, but thats because I've had some really bad experiences in life and the law seems more concerned with protecting my perpetrators than me.
Quote from: "drunkenshoe"-Never been theists are more likely to come from highly educated, secular families and their sense of individuality is likely to be more developed in early age and separated from the herd.
Highly educated? Yes. Secular? No, not really. If anything, Catholicism was heavily pushed on me from an early age. Its what got me thinking about religion to begin with.
Quote from: "drunkenshoe"-Never been theists are more likely to get loud about an issue that is not directly related to them.
Some truth there, but I suspect that has more to do with being born into a relatively wealthy family than anything else. Since my own needs are easily met, I seek outside causes.
Quote from: "drunkenshoe"-Never been theists least likely to employ traditional roles in family, work place, society...etc.
Thats too broad of a statement to really comment on.
Quote from: "drunkenshoe"-Never been theists are more likely to be strong atheists.
True enough.
Quote from: "drunkenshoe"-Never been theists are more likely to be insensitive to problems to ex-theists faced or religious people have to face.
Admittedly so. I don't really grasp that perspective, I figured this out before middle school.
Quote from: "drunkenshoe"E: Oh and they are more likely to be assholes and bitches.
Right back at ya, Shoezy. :finga:
Former theists have that hatred against religion. They are more likely to claim themselves openly as atheists and are less sympathetic to religion. Former theists tend to be more likely to know the arguments against religion.
Do you think there is a difference in attitude between people who have never been raped in prison compared to people who were?
I was never religious and I do find it hard to put myself into the mindset that admits the possibility that fairies, pixies, elves, etc., can be real. It's rather like never having eaten haggis and having someone tell you it's great.
ex-smokers v never smoked
ex-drinkers v never drank
ex-religious v never religious
I would suggest that certain behaviors and attitudes would be similar. Especially the obnoxious part.
I was never a theist, but I did used to believe in Santa Claus. So I can kind of see where theists are coming from. I definitely have a harder time seeing the other side than former theists do. The trade-off is that while I still think religion is stupid, I tend to have more patience to discuss it than I've seen in most former theists.
All I can say with certainty is that ex-theists are more likely to ardent opponents of whatever religious beliefs they formerly had and more familiar with how those religions work because of their firsthand experience.
When I left Mormonism I was ardently against it, really felt burned and angry towards it. After Christianity, not the same; just mostly disappointed in the whole thing. My attitude now is one of trying to be informative about aspects of religion on here and to others. I think ex theists are more inclined to wind up "hard" atheists in the end, but that's just my particular experience.
I'm an ex-smoker, nearly 25 years without a coffin nail. I don't preach at people who smoke, but I don't let them smoke in my house or car either.
Well, not tobacco, anyway. :-$ 8-)
I've always been an atheist since I was six years old, and all my friends were Catholic and used to say the dumbest things like, "Drink lemonade and your blood will turn to water," or other ridiculous things to scare me. They were really afraid of things that didn't even bother me. I now know from a group of atheist I belong to that the former theist are more hostile towards religion and more active in the movement. All social changes have involved being angry, so it makes sense. Solitary
Quote from: "Aletheia"This I can agree with. I see all religions regardless of cultural background as being equally bizarre and lacking in logic.
Etc.
Aside from the poorly educated religious extended family part (I come from a well-educated non-religious background), +10.
Quote from: "Hydra009"All I can say with certainty is that ex-theists are more likely to ardent opponents of whatever religious beliefs they formerly had and more familiar with how those religions work because of their firsthand experience.
...because there's just nothing better than learning you've been lied to. :shock:
Granted sometimes people aren't lying on purpose - aka they *believe* what they're spouting. But at the end of the day - a lie is a lie is a lie. And being lied to can piss you off no matter how intelligent, educated, etc you are or............. not.
I don't believe I was lied to. The people around me sincerely believed what they were telling me, and I think they had my best interests at heart. But I'm very angry at the illogical stupidity of those that trained me. I have this desire to scream at theists (of all kinds) and tell them how stupid they are. That's pretty angry, and I'm amazed at the restraint of the atheist community. I don't know if my hidden anger is a result of being a former Christian or not. I think all religions are equally stupid.
And to be clear, I do not use the word 'stupid' lightly when talking about theism. In this context, it is not a word I use to create an exaggerated sense of some occasional intellectual miscalculation that anyone can make, the kind we light heartedly refer to as a 'stupid mistake'. I mean stupid, as in blatant self imposed stupidity, whether it be based on willful arrogant pride of ignorance, or clinging to a morbid fear of demons, Hellfire, and creepy monsters under the bed at night.
Yet, I myself have been there, and I understand how easy it is to be stupid in an insane world of religion. There really should be no need to slap the shit out of these people to wake them from their intellectual fog, but I often do feel like I'd like to scream at them. I don't know if never theists don't feel that to the extent that I do or not. Maybe they don't.
Quote from: "SGOS"I don't know the answer to this question, but I've wondered about it at times. You would think Ex theists might be in a position to better understand the dynamics of an unsupported belief, since they had once been that way. Not that this is helpful. You could understand that dynamic like a psychological Stephen Hawking, but still be utterly unable to help others see the problems with unsupported belief.
People pretty much have to figure out, for themselves, that the things they believe in are mostly superstitions combined with man-made church doctrines. I do not know what it is that enables some people (like me) to leave their religion, and others to stick to it even with mounds of evidence against it. I know what it's like to be fervently religious, and what it's like to slowly give that up as my mind simply can't believe the lies anymore; but I can't convince others to do the same. All I can do is explain why I stopped believing, and leave them to their own lives. As long as they aren't hurting others or imposing their beliefs on everyone around them, I guess I don't care very much.