Heard the news today.
Disgusted. Surprised. Surprised that i´m surprised.
I´ts fucking surreal. I hope the suprême court can somehow be stopped in this.
My opinion only. Roe v Wade will be toast soon. Next job will be to dissolve all same sex marriage. Then on to the New Deal programs; dismantle all of what FDR was able to put into place, including social security. Along the way, make christanity the 'national' religion. The repubs have put in the work on the local level to carry this stuff through. Part of the problem is that the dems have simply sat on their hands 'taking the high road' for so long that they are simply ineffectual. And even in victory, they manage to defeat themselves and let the country down. I will not live to see all of it, but it will come to pass.
(https://i.imgur.com/SlQxwQj.jpg)
^ This is a joke, right? Right!?
(https://i.redd.it/07w6a5db8iy81.jpg)
Rules change when they inconvenience conservatives.
Quote from: Hydra009 on May 09, 2022, 08:07:46 PM(https://i.redd.it/07w6a5db8iy81.jpg)
Rules change when they inconvenience conservatives.
Okay, that's just another dime-a-dozen talking point. I'm not aware of @BillKristol arguing in favor of the strawman in question, unless you have something I've missed.
Quote from: Mike Cl on May 04, 2022, 07:02:32 PMMy opinion only. Roe v Wade will be toast soon. Next job will be to dissolve all same sex marriage. Then on to the New Deal programs; dismantle all of what FDR was able to put into place, including social security. Along the way, make christanity the 'national' religion. The repubs have put in the work on the local level to carry this stuff through. Part of the problem is that the dems have simply sat on their hands 'taking the high road' for so long that they are simply ineffectual. And even in victory, they manage to defeat themselves and let the country down. I will not live to see all of it, but it will come to pass.
Cool. Opinions are dime a dozen.
As far as the argument here goes. I guess I can see a tangential link between overturning Roe vs. Wade and same-sex marriages.
But I'm not seeing much of a connecting between that and the "New Deal", especially since a large bi-partisan demographic benefits from it.
Same with making Christianity the "national religion" - that would require repealing the 1st Amendment, unless you care to make another argument for how the Supreme Court would go about that.
Quote from: FreethinkingSceptic on May 16, 2022, 11:50:29 PMCool. Opinions are dime a dozen.
As is yours. Maybe I'd argue that yours are about a nickel a dozen. If that.
I'm pro-choice and don't like Roe V. Wade. It was bad judicial law. This should be at least up to congress or maybe constitutional amendment. Failing either of those, it depends on the state.
I can rest easy knowing that California will be the abortion provider for the entire western half of the US. For those who care about this part, they will be government funded to the ninth month.
Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on May 18, 2022, 09:38:18 PMI'm pro-choice and don't like Roe V. Wade. It was bad judicial law. This should be at least up to congress or maybe constitutional amendment. Failing either of those, it depends on the state.
I can rest easy knowing that California will be the abortion provider for the entire western half of the US. For those who care about this part, they will be government funded to the ninth month.
Not even. The gov of Oklahoma is already railing against tribal lands about not allowing them to perform abortions. You're also pretty clueless about other states where abortions may be performed. It's not just California, bub. And funded to the 9th month? Really? You really should educate yourself on the reality. You're being a poe, right?
Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on May 18, 2022, 09:38:18 PMI'm pro-choice and don't like Roe V. Wade. It was bad judicial law. This should be at least up to congress or maybe constitutional amendment. Failing either of those, it depends on the state.
I can rest easy knowing that California will be the abortion provider for the entire western half of the US. For those who care about this part, they will be government funded to the ninth month.
This is going to hit poorer people outside of California like a motherfucker though, Jason.
This is going to utterly ruin lives and lead to increased deaths.
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on May 19, 2022, 12:37:06 AMThis is going to utterly ruin lives and lead to increased deaths.
That appears to be their goal.
Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on May 18, 2022, 09:38:18 PMI'm pro-choice and don't like Roe V. Wade. It was bad judicial law. This should be at least up to congress or maybe constitutional amendment. Failing either of those, it depends on the state.
I can rest easy knowing that California will be the abortion provider for the entire western half of the US. For those who care about this part, they will be government funded to the ninth month.
That's great for you. You won't ever have to worry about it, being a guy.
This is not just about abortion. It's a strong message to women that we are lesser beings, not capable of being trusted with our own bodies, and about disinterested parties making the absolute largest of life decisions for us.
Oppression of women is going to hurt us, badly, in the long run. Women are half the workforce and half the productivity. At least for now.
The decision to carry a pregnancy or not is unbelievably complicated, and one that anyone who has not been through it might not have the first fucking clue about.
The Lancet, one of the top medical journals in the world, has this on their cover this week:
(https://els-jbs-prod-cdn.jbs.elsevierhealth.com/cms/asset/atypon:cms:attachment:img:d115e6:rev:1652327637945-3890:pii:S0140673622X00196/cover.tif.jpg)
Quote from: Dark Lightning on May 18, 2022, 11:12:51 PMNot even. The gov of Oklahoma is already railing against tribal lands about not allowing them to perform abortions. You're also pretty clueless about other states where abortions may be performed. It's not just California, bub. And funded to the 9th month? Really? You really should educate yourself on the reality. You're being a poe, right?
And what happens in Oklahoma won't impact California's laws.
And yes, California is crazy enough to allow extremely late term abortions.
Look, I realize a lot of people have hitched their wagon to Roe v. Wade. However, even a cursory examination of the arguments (not the end result) shows that it is a bad decision. Only the end result has any redeeming value to the case. From a judicial and constitutional point of view it sucks.
For this to be a proper federal issue, it at least need a bill passed by the congress and signed by the president. Perhaps it needs more, such as a constitutional amendment. Without such a bill or amendment, it does need by constitutional law to be a matter for the states. It isn't about a desired end result in that case, but about the decision actually being in accord with procedure, which is important even if you would rather focus on the end result.
Given that I am both pro-choice and anti-RvW, I am in a position that is neither liberal nor conservative. I'm used to it.
So now some states will ban it, some states will allow it, and nobody is forbidden from crossing state lines. The first state that tries banning crossing state lines will receive a constitutional smack-down, and it will be well deserved.
And yes, California is a crazy state and will be more than ready to offer abortion to anyone from any state, at the taxpayer dime, very late in pregnancy.
Think they are going to pick up the travel expenses (transport, lodging, ...) as well as the cost of losing out on your income during the trip, as well?
Again, poor people.
Like a motherfucker.
Quote from: FreethinkingSceptic on May 16, 2022, 11:50:29 PMAs far as the argument here goes. I guess I can see a tangential link between overturning Roe vs. Wade and same-sex marriages.
According to Alito, the right to abortion recognized in Roe must be overturned because it is not valid under the Constitution's 14th Amendment right to due process. Abortion is among a number of fundamental rights that the court over many decades recognized at least in part as what are called "substantive" due process liberties, including contraception in 1965, interracial marriage in 1967 and same-sex marriage in 2015. Though these rights are not explicitly mentioned in the Constitution, they are linked to personal privacy, autonomy, dignity and equality. Conservative critics of the substantive due process principle have said it improperly lets unelected justices make policy choices better left to legislators. The result is states could pass laws banning abortion, contraception, interracial marriage, and same-sex marriage, plus these bans could go in and out of effect depending on which party gets elected. Progressives are in office, I'm married, conservatives are in office, I'm single. I go to California, I'm married, I go to Florida, I'm single.
Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on May 19, 2022, 10:58:51 PMAnd what happens in Oklahoma won't impact California's laws.
And yes, California is crazy enough to allow extremely late term abortions.
California law is max 26 weeks. What do you consider "extremely late"?
Quote from: Dark Lightning on May 20, 2022, 11:36:04 AMCalifornia law is max 26 weeks. What do you consider "extremely late"?
That is current law, because they haven't gotten around to changing it. If RvW goes, I would not be surprised if they changed it to over 32 weeks.
^ Be sure and notify us all when that happens.
Quote from: Mike Cl on May 17, 2022, 09:42:54 AMAs is yours. Maybe I'd argue that yours are about a nickel a dozen. If that.
Cool. You haven't substantiated how, legally, overturning Roe vs. Wade would lead to any of the other things you suggest. Simply asserting that parties might have an "agenda" to do it is pretty flimsy.
PART 1/3
I'm a French citizen living in France but I follow what happens about "Roe V. Wade" because I understood a fundamental thing.
This fundamental thing is the next : If this case is reversed. The impact of this event isn't only about USA because it can inspire anti-abortion lobbies in others countries.
PART 2/3
If this case is reversed. What will happens next ? Why not the end of "Miller test" who will permit to each states , territories , district of Columbia , tribal governments to ban porn if they
want.
Life is already difficult for people working in porn industry.
If one day porn became illegal in nearly everywhere or everywhere in United States of America it will create a black market.
Those advocating for those working in this industry can tell you better than me the consequences.
Life is already difficult for people working in porn industry for many reasons and unhappily I can't be exhaustive because there are so many reasons.
1.Stigmatization in social life and professional life.
a.If you are a well known cisgender porn actor in straight movies. Find a common job after porn will not be easy and this is worse for cisgender men who made gay or bi. It's worse for cisgender women compared to cisgendered men. The worse of the worse is for transgenders who are more discriminated.
b.Sexual harassment
2.De facto limits about freedom of speech.
a.Do you know some financials services limit yourself in the porn you can do ? For example with some of them you can't show blood during periods and if you do so you won't be able to access to services.
b.Some banks refuse to give you a loan if you work in porn and less money means less artistic liberty.
It does have consequences in your personal life and not only in your professional life.
You have a legal work but banks refuse because of theirs internal rules written or not.
3.Western societies pretend you're free to live like you want if you're not a threat for another person.
If you do porn you are de facto under obligation to use a nickname in your professional life to protect yourself and we know the real names of very few porn actors/actresses compared to others celebrities.
What is Miller test ? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miller_test
PART 3/3
If "Roe V. Wade" reach its end. Maybe one day it will be the end of "Lawrence V. Texas".
This landmark from year 2003 make that nowadays homosexual activities are legal everywhere in USA.
Wikipedia entry about this : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_v._Texas