Two stories bother me--
The next US civil war is already here â€" we just refuse to see it
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jan/04/next-us-civil-war-already-here-we-refuse-to-see-it
The right has recognized that the system is in collapse, and it has a plan: violence and solidarity with treasonous far-right factions
Stephen Marche
Tue 4 Jan 2022 05.00 EST
Nobody wants what’s coming, so nobody wants to see what’s coming.
On the eve of the first civil war, the most intelligent, the most informed, the most dedicated people in the United States could not see it coming. Even when Confederate soldiers began their bombardment of Fort Sumter, nobody believed that conflict was inevitable. The north was so unprepared for the war they had no weapons.
Violent Conflict Expert Envisions Right-Wing Dictatorship 'By 2030, If Not Sooner'
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/right-wing-dictatorship-by-2030-warning_n_61d40c28e4b0c7d8b8a75cad
Trump could return to the White House and serve as “the wrecking ball that demolishes democracy†to produce “a political and social shambles,†Homer-Dixon wrote. That would set the stage “for a more managerially competent ruler†to “bring order to the chaos he’s created,†he added.
“We mustn’t dismiss these possibilities just because they seem ludicrous or too horrible to imagine,†the political scientist continued. “In 2014, the suggestion that Donald Trump would become president would also have struck nearly everyone as absurd. But today we live in a world where the absurd regularly becomes real and the horrible commonplace.â€
These two stories dovetail to reflect my greatest fears for the future of this country. As I see it, the unthinkable is upon us and is becoming reality.
The wakeup call was probably when Obama won. I struggle to understand what a post successful overthrow looks like. Highly paid whites picking tomatoes under the hot sun instead of underpaid Mexicans? A 50 foot wall on the southern border? Social security and Medicare gone and buried. Black/white only bathrooms. The president giving biblical sermons.
Fucking Morons.
I'm not certain what a US civil war would look like. Red states versus blue states? Civil war is not just civil unrest, street violence, and terrorist attacks. A dictatorship is not a civil war. Civil war involves military action-- tanks, aircraft dropping bombs, etcetera. I wonder how China and Russia would respond.
I don't know how much room I have left to be scared, but this is really scary.
Quote from: Cassia on January 04, 2022, 12:06:38 PM
The wakeup call was probably when Obama won. I struggle to understand what a post successful overthrow looks like. Highly paid whites picking tomatoes under the hot sun instead of underpaid Mexicans? A 50 foot wall on the southern border? Social security and Medicare gone and buried. Black/white only bathrooms. The president giving biblical sermons.
Fucking Morons.
I think you are correct about Obama's win. It was a signal to the white nationalists that this very well could be the future and that future would be colored and not white. I, too, struggle to understand (just about everything) what a fascist govt would look like here. And how it will be obtained. What I do know is that white nationalism is not a regional movement, but a totally national one. And they are highly armed and trained--they are in large numbers in the military and police depts around the nation. And they have been around forever.
Civil War? Ask the guy who blew up that Federal Building. We too comfortable to help such a thing get going.
The problem with a civil war right now is that the lines go straight through Nana's kitchen. It isn't clear cut at this time.
Back when Antifa started getting violent, my response was "Bad idea. Wait until people respond with violence. Also, they'll be better at it than you are." Now we get posts like Mike's where he expresses grave concern over right wing violence, just as I predicted 4 years ago.
The problem with getting violent is it spurs others into violence in response. The right can honestly say "we didn't start it" at this time.
The right hasn't said anything honestly for decades now. And whever trump opens his mouth it is simply assumed he is lying.
Of course, after antifa stormed Congress, it is no wonder the right is in the right on this stuff. They are totally innocent--just ask them.
Quote from: Mike Cl on January 05, 2022, 09:15:19 PM
The right hasn't said anything honestly for decades now. And whever trump opens his mouth it is simply assumed he is lying.
Of course, after antifa stormed Congress, it is no wonder the right is in the right on this stuff. They are totally innocent--just ask them.
I never said Antifa stormed congress. However, there are the many and myriad "mostly peaceful protests" that occurred between Trump's 2016 inauguration and the election of Joe Biden. Including a failed firebombing of an ICE facility, the shooting of the congressional baseball game, and the whole fiasco of CHAZ/CHOP. The only common denominator is how bad the left is at violence, so very bad at it, that they should never have tried it in the first place.
The key to bringing the left and right towards the middle is to discuss what we REALLY want the US to be in 3 or 10 years. You would find much agreement...all people want financial security, health/safety, fun and personal freedoms. I wish there was a national forum or TV show where average people and experts could discuss issues calmly and the audience could relearn how civilized, peaceful, constructive people behave.
The other thing that brings a nation is an existential threat either from (a) an external enemy or (b) a looming disaster. Well, we have (b) for sure although it may take another decade for that to sink in.
If we are gonna have a war; please wait 20 years and I won't even give a damn. It would be so nasty when children are suffering like those Syrian war kids...and all for what...fucking ideology.
If such were to happen. We would start with about 10-15 thousand right wing red necks and their targets would not be white people. Can’t tell someone’s political persuasion by looking at him. But people of color are easily assumed to be them damn liberal socialists…
And with any civil war, when started by “one†side….their backers tend to get a lot nervous when the opposition starts shooting back, especially when their kids are suddenly involved. They want a peaceful transfer to their Jesus loves me government meant for them and only them….then the world will be all roses and sunshine.
I have no difficulty seeing that “some one(s)†may attempt to get the ball rolling but hopefully such an event would waken up the milder lunatics to say, “whoa, we don’t want thisâ€.
I don't think it would be like a 'war' with armies like the old one. Don't you think, it would be like mafia war on streets here and there, spreading and new rules and laws who ever takes where?
Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on January 05, 2022, 09:19:33 PMThe only common denominator is how bad the left is at violence, so very bad at it, that they should never have tried it in the first place.
Thanks, first good laugh I've had since July.
Quote from: drunkenshoe on January 06, 2022, 11:20:57 AM
I don't think it would be like a 'war' with armies like the old one. Don't you think, it would be like mafia war on streets here and there, spreading and new rules and laws who ever takes where?
Pretty much…local tough guy “militias†targeting local peeps they know to be damn socialists. Or they will set up a training run to hit someone out of state and maybe organize with different groups so that each does the others dirty work…keep their faces off local news and confuse the guv’ment. But I think, well hopefully, that should such shit start….mom and dad and sis and brother gonna say, “what the fuck are you,doing� Hopefully anyway.
I am fuckin so civil that even our wars are civil and in a gentleman way.
I will go and modernize my weapon so my targets can die without pain, in humane way.
Jokes aside;
Thats the way modern warfare tactics and strategy is run.
The conventional methods of war were abandoned for the sake of more effective soft power.
Less casuality and money, more success.
And the more devilishly running project.
I forget which war it was when they realized that wounding a soldier was more efficient, because then you remove two other combatants who are removing said wounded to safety. Then of course you can perhaps over run due to having more weapons firing.
I dont think less casuality has ever been of concern.
At the end of the day, a soldier on the frontier has no value more than a fly, that can be sarcificed, of course for the greater good of the nation he fights for. Better yet, he even himself believes in the cause worthy of dying for. Thanks to propaganda.
I may be naive at the stupidity level.
I want rather live than die for my nation, if it is even an issue; or let the ideology die, rather than dying for the ideology.
Quote from: aitm on January 07, 2022, 01:25:59 PM
Pretty much…local tough guy “militias†targeting local peeps they know to be damn socialists. Or they will set up a training run to hit someone out of state and maybe organize with different groups so that each does the others dirty work…keep their faces off local news and confuse the guv’ment. But I think, well hopefully, that should such shit start….mom and dad and sis and brother gonna say, “what the fuck are you,doing� Hopefully anyway.
Not sure I got entirely that right, but anyway, you really sound like my father sometimes, lol.
I agree that the left is not as good at violence, but then they haven't trained at it like the right wing militias and gun fanatics. I was also aware of right wing violence years before the right started pointing fingers at Antifa. All the right wing focus on left wing threats is an attempt to justify their own violence, which was well in place before then. What they have done is develop propaganda campaigns to justify their own shit, like storming the Capitol.
I was raised by a generation that had confidence in government and neighbors. Big companies and organizations and conformity. Starched white shirts and ties. Sexism and racism tolerated.
Then the 60s broke that down. Watergate. Then it was all about individualism. Find your inner self. I can't imagine borrowing a cup of sugar from next door. People are isolated and lonely. Coddled young people cast into a sea of individuals with no perceived purpose.
Enter tribalism: the solution, LOL. tRumpism, magats, evangelist nationalism. A reaction to the loneliness and "excessive" individualism (throw in social distancing) and you get organized hate, simple effective symbolism. Gonna suck until an organized reaction rises against.
I'm glad I'm old.
I do think my country is on the edge of a civil war. But not in the image of the first one--there will be no 'armies'. But there will be a huge drive for the right to seize control of the centers of power of the govt. and as many states as possible. This is an article that sums it up:
Is the US really heading for a second civil war?
https://www.yahoo.com/news/us-really-heading-second-civil-070014808.html