In general, how do you see miracle stories? Like those from pastors such as Todd White, or people claiming to have been cured from incurable diseases...do you dismiss them out of hand or do you think they need each a case-for-case evaluation?
Regards. :)
I reserve judgement over miracles, insofar that I've yet to see one. They're also easy to define out of existence if you mean something that defies nature.
Most stuff that people mean, when they say miracle, can be explained by natural causes.
Quote from: Sal1981 on May 06, 2020, 04:26:15 AM
I reserve judgement over miracles, insofar that I've yet to see one. They're also easy to define out of existence if you mean something that defies nature.
Most stuff that people mean, when they say miracle, can be explained by natural causes.
So you mean you don't rule out their existence
a priori?
Quote from: Paolo on May 06, 2020, 05:01:47 AM
So you mean you don't rule out their existence a priori?
I think they are difficult to define, is all.
I don't believe miracles happen. However, I do believe some people have a miracle mindset. The miracle mindset can be part of the conscious mind, or reside in the subconscious mind. Those with the miracle mindset can see miracles in extraordinary events, or in the most mundane everyday occurrences. Recovering from cancer or a bird chirping outside your window can be a miracle, but only to the beholder or the beholder's peer group. Whether miracles actually exist cannot be answered, not even by the pope, who sends out occasional miracle investigators, all of whom are religiously or politically motivated (they are the same thing). They talk to observers, and then debate among themselves. If they come to an actual consensus, they report back to the Vatican, where a recorder documents the event in a book as a miracle.
Scientists are not equipped to identify miracles. Miracles can only be identified by religious perception. Of course, some scientists might also have flawed perceptions. Insanity crosses all ideological boundaries, so some doctors and scientists claim things they don't yet understand are miracles. The deeply religious simply understand everything using the "God did it" explanation: "Why is chlorophyll green? God did it." The skeptic only expresses healthy doubt.
For first person events, magicians certainly understand the strong reliability of humans on their easily fooled sensory perception and how to exploit it. For second-hand stories, we learn to rely on authorities as children (reliance on parents). This continues throughout life for child-like adults. I am still looking for any major university peer reviewed research that makes a strong case for anything supernatural. There should be millions or billions of cases if an active deity was constantly working throughout the world as the religious claim. A miracle medical claim never involves a cut and dry recovery such as an amputee regaining a limb. Most claims that I have heard involve an internal tumor or cancer that has disappeared and is impossible to verify as a miracle.
Quote from: Cassia on May 06, 2020, 07:50:22 AMI am still looking for any major university peer reviewed research that makes a strong case for anything supernatural. There should be millions or billions of cases if an active deity was constantly working throughout the world as the religious claim. A miracle medical claim never involves a cut and dry recovery such as an amputee regaining a limb. Most claims that I have heard involve an internal tumor or cancer that has disappeared and is impossible to verify as a miracle.
This part I think is the heart of the problem. There should be papers like this if true miracles existed. Strangely enough, one friend of mine has claimed that he has heard from other friends that
they saw that amputees were regaining limbs at the evangelical event ''The Send''. But that friend of mine has psych issues, so even that claim of
hearsay is dubious...
Quote from: Paolo on May 06, 2020, 02:56:59 AM
In general, how do you see miracle stories? Like those from pastors such as Todd White, or people claiming to have been cured from incurable diseases...do you dismiss them out of hand or do you think they need each a case-for-case evaluation?
Regards. :)
As defined by atheists, there are no miracles. As defined by Roman Catholics, there are miracles, but only for Roman Catholics. As defined by Charismatics, there are miracles, but only for Charismatics. So this is a semantic argument, not a biological argument. Ultimately, all human arguments are psychological.
Another angle is the paranormal. In my own life and anecdotally in the lives of others (including relatives) the paranormal is quite real. But again, it is a question of psychology. For atheists, the universe is maximally boring, they dismiss not just theology, but philosophy and psychology ;-) Only physics is real, because geeks.
Quote from: Sal1981 on May 06, 2020, 05:02:31 AM
I think they are difficult to define, is all.
Difficult to study in controlled repeatable conditions, by definition. So their empirical status is popular but unprofessional. Of course one can choose an ideological position on anything, but that would be pseudo-rational.
Quote from: Paolo on May 06, 2020, 09:04:29 AM
This part I think is the heart of the problem. There should be papers like this if true miracles existed. Strangely enough, one friend of mine has claimed that he has heard from other friends that they saw that amputees were regaining limbs at the evangelical event ''The Send''. But that friend of mine has psych issues, so even that claim of hearsay is dubious...
What is truth? - Pontius Pilatus
However, the more spectacular claim, the more dubious ... secular or religious.
Miracles are simply unexplained happenings. Since nature is all there is, nothing can be supernatural. If we perceive something as a miracle it is because we don't understand the process that led to that happening or we have a mindset that wants to 'believe' it was a miracle. To those who 'believe' no amount of reasoned thinking will persuade them that it was not a miracle. Simpy put, there are no miracles.
There are miracles and then there are “miraclesâ€. Ha. It is not a miracle when statistical probabilities suggest eventually A will happen, such a plane crash when only one survives, or the opposite, when getting out of your car a tree branch falls at the exact time and kills you.
To me a real “miracle†must defy science. Show me a crashing plane that suddenly slows and floats gently to the ground....then you have my attention.
Quote from: Mike Cl on May 06, 2020, 09:31:05 AM
Miracles are simply unexplained happenings. Since nature is all there is, nothing can be supernatural. If we perceive something as a miracle it is because we don't understand the process that led to that happening or we have a mindset that wants to 'believe' it was a miracle. To those who 'believe' no amount of reasoned thinking will persuade them that it was not a miracle. Simpy put, there are no miracles.
Aliens in flying saucers are miracles? ;-) Yes, people don't understand. They never do, though they often claim to ;-)
Believing in aliens is the modern equivalent of angelology/demonology. For Marxists (aka Progressives), the inevitable development of technology brings salvation, rather than aliens with superior technology and superior morals.
Quote from: aitm on May 06, 2020, 09:50:43 AM
There are miracles and then there are “miraclesâ€. Ha. It is not a miracle when statistical probabilities suggest eventually A will happen, such a plane crash when only one survives, or the opposite, when getting out of your car a tree branch falls at the exact time and kills you.
To me a real “miracle†must defy science. Show me a crashing plane that suddenly slows and floats gently to the ground....then you have my attention.
The Pharisees did nothing wrong ;-)
Quote from: Paolo on May 06, 2020, 02:56:59 AM
In general, how do you see miracle stories? Like those from pastors such as Todd White, or people claiming to have been cured from incurable diseases...do you dismiss them out of hand or do you think they need each a case-for-case evaluation?
Regards. :)
I was scammed by faith healers a long time ago. I learned my lesson, and yes, I now dismiss miracle stories as baloney. I may look at cases of these stories but only to see if they're novel malarkey.
Quote from: Jagella on May 06, 2020, 09:39:54 PM
I was scammed by faith healers a long time ago. I learned my lesson, and yes, I now dismiss miracle stories as baloney. I may look at cases of these stories but only to see if they're novel malarkey.
Doctors call this bed side manner. Your cure is partly based on your confidence in the doctor. Hence ideological defense of Dr Fauci. I have been scammed myself. but it was always my gullibility at fault.
I see miracles as nothing but lies and delusion. I see stage magicians perform what many would call miracles if they don't know it's a trick . But magicians don't generally lie and say that God did it.
I've found that the majority of "miracles" are stories made up by someone, who has no witnesses to corroborate with. These are easily dismissed. However, it's also true that when you're primed to see miracles everywhere you go, you will see ordinary coincidences as miracles. When I was a teenager, there was this youth camp thing. The leaders of the camp were teaching about how to pray for messages from God, as well as how to do faith healing. This was rather unusual to me, because I was used to faith healers just expecting you to give them money for them to heal you, not for them to teach you how to do it yourself. During this event, they paired us up, had us take turns laying hands on each other, closing our eyes, and praying for God to tell us what the other person needed. When I did that, I saw an image of a woman in a rocking chair, sitting motionless in a dark room. I shared that with him, and he told me it was his mother, who was going through a divorce and was distancing herself from others. I, of course, saw this as a sign. And I prayed for God to give me some advice. Nothing came. Since that time, I had tried multiple times to replicate the technique, to get some kind of message from God, with no success.
Now that I no longer believe, I see that "miracle" for what it was. A coincidence. Maybe when I was over at his house before (some people from church would play games at his house on occasion), I picked up on some subtle sign that his mother wasn't doing well, and then that came out when I was praying. Either that, or God just likes fucking with people. I mean, why would he tell me about this guy's problem and then go silent, unless he was just a dick?
Quote from: Unbeliever on May 07, 2020, 12:57:19 PM
I see miracles as nothing but lies and delusion. I see stage magicians perform what many would call miracles if they don't know it's a trick . But magicians don't generally lie and say that God did it.
Stage magicians are gods ;-) I love their acts!
Quote from: Sal1981 on May 06, 2020, 04:26:15 AM
I reserve judgement over miracles, insofar that I've yet to see one.
I judge miracles as nonsense. If I'm wrong, then I invite people to prove I'm wrong.
QuoteThey're also easy to define out of existence if you mean something that defies nature.
I'm not completely sure what a miracle is, but I generally use the Bible to provide examples and assume miracles are supposed to be like those examples.
QuoteMost stuff that people mean, when they say miracle, can be explained by natural causes.
I've seen people mistake natural phenomena to be miracles. Since no miracle has ever been proved, I assume that many miracle stories are based on those misinterpretations.
I don't know, I don't believe in miracles, but I believe in skepticism, so when I saw this I had my doubts:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ojey48UmkA4&t=413s
In this video of a supposed 'miracle', one commenter remarked: ''I have to ask how to prove it that was true? Can he heal most of disabled persons or only this one actor? This question isn%u2019t about God just for this man''. To which someone else said: ''You can see the atrophied muscles in his legs. You can't fake that. Someone with those proportions can't walk. I had my doubts clicking on this vid too, but this is a true case of a miracle happening on camera''.
Am I too gulliable, or even we skeptics get sometimes trapped in little corners? :neutral:
Quote from: Paolo on May 08, 2020, 02:11:55 AM
I don't know, I don't believe in miracles, but I believe in skepticism, so when I saw this I had my doubts:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ojey48UmkA4&t=413s
In this video of a supposed 'miracle', one commenter remarked: ''I have to ask how to prove it that was true? Can he heal most of disabled persons or only this one actor? This question isn%u2019t about God just for this man''. To which someone else said: ''You can see the atrophied muscles in his legs. You can't fake that. Someone with those proportions can't walk. I had my doubts clicking on this vid too, but this is a true case of a miracle happening on camera''.
Am I too gulliable, or even we skeptics get sometimes trapped in little corners? :neutral:
They help him stand, stabilize him, and let him hold on to the pastor while he shuffles his feet forward a little. Then when he gets too tired, they help him sit back down. The man ended up the same as he began: weak and frail. I'm not impressed. Nothing but hype. Let's see his muscles change shape immediately after prayer, becoming strong and healthy enough to walk without aid. Then I'll be impressed.
Quote from: Paolo on May 08, 2020, 02:11:55 AM
I don't know, I don't believe in miracles, but I believe in skepticism, so when I saw this I had my doubts:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ojey48UmkA4&t=413s
In this video of a supposed 'miracle', one commenter remarked: ''I have to ask how to prove it that was true? Can he heal most of disabled persons or only this one actor? This question isn%u2019t about God just for this man''. To which someone else said: ''You can see the atrophied muscles in his legs. You can't fake that. Someone with those proportions can't walk. I had my doubts clicking on this vid too, but this is a true case of a miracle happening on camera''.
Am I too gulliable, or even we skeptics get sometimes trapped in little corners? :neutral:
Yeah, you are too gullible.
Quote from: Paolo on May 08, 2020, 02:11:55 AM
I don't know, I don't believe in miracles, but I believe in skepticism, so when I saw this I had my doubts:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ojey48UmkA4&t=413s
In this video of a supposed 'miracle', one commenter remarked: ''I have to ask how to prove it that was true? Can he heal most of disabled persons or only this one actor? This question isn%u2019t about God just for this man''. To which someone else said: ''You can see the atrophied muscles in his legs. You can't fake that. Someone with those proportions can't walk. I had my doubts clicking on this vid too, but this is a true case of a miracle happening on camera''.
Am I too gulliable, or even we skeptics get sometimes trapped in little corners? :neutral:
Doctors are gods, they know what every cell in your body is doing (not). A human body is very complicated. Psychosomatic assistance (bedside manner) or self hypnosis (patient confidence) are real things. It is harder to recover from an injury or illness ... if the people around you, are preparing your funeral, or your doctor tells you, you have a week to live! So what is a skeptic?
What happens with humans is psychological and physiological. You can accept materialism as a dogma, and say that all of that is because of quantum mechanics (spooky action at a distance). A materialist who denies the psychological, is a poor doctor. It doesn't matter, in your recovery, if the brain is the source of all things psychological or not. Your car repair guy, doesn't need to be a quantum mechanic to fix your car, he simply needs to be good at fixing cars.
There are cases of unexplained improvement or recovery in patients. The doctor doesn't know why. And not knowing why, means you don't know why either. You can psychologically attribute it to anything you want (if you are the patient). If you aren't the patient, you know less than nothing.
I've heard faith healing can be effective against masturbation.
Quote from: SGOS on May 08, 2020, 10:59:54 AM
I've heard faith healing can be effective against masturbation.
Is that why your hands are hairy? ;-)
Quote from: Paolo on May 08, 2020, 02:11:55 AMAm I too gulliable, or even we skeptics get sometimes trapped in little corners? :neutral:
If you believe that anything "miraculous" happened to the man in the wheelchair, then yes, you are gullible. I was through the faith healing scam too, only I cannot walk at all or even stand up. A faith healer I saw blamed me when his "miracles from Jesus" were not substantiated. He told me that I didn't really believe Jesus could heal me, and the proof was my continued inability to walk.
Faith healing is quackery of the worst kind adding insult to the injury it inflicts on it victims. It should be outlawed as a threat to public health. It hasn't been outlawed because Christian myths are more important to people in our society than the respect and the dignity of disabled people.
Quote from: Blackleaf on May 08, 2020, 03:05:32 AM
They help him stand, stabilize him, and let him hold on to the pastor while he shuffles his feet forward a little. Then when he gets too tired, they help him sit back down. The man ended up the same as he began: weak and frail. I'm not impressed. Nothing but hype. Let's see his muscles change shape immediately after prayer, becoming strong and healthy enough to walk without aid. Then I'll be impressed.
Note that as far as we can tell nobody in that video spoke up to say what you posted here. The "healing" could not have more clearly failed. The faith of those Christians was evidently not shaken one bit by proof that their belief in miracles has failed miserably at least once.
If I had been present there and then I would have told the man in the wheelchair that he was being lied to and being fed false hope. He should learn to live with his disability the best way he can, but more than that, he should value himself as the worthwhile man he is--great things that Christianity fails to deliver on.
Quote from: Jagella on May 08, 2020, 11:57:50 AM
Note that as far as we can tell nobody in that video spoke up to say what you posted here. The "healing" could not have more clearly failed. The faith of those Christians was evidently not shaken one bit by proof that their belief in miracles has failed miserably at least once.
If I had been present there and then I would have told the man in the wheelchair that he was being lied to and being fed false hope. He should learn to live with his disability the best way he can, but more than that, he should value himself as the worthwhile man he is--great things that Christianity fails to deliver on.
I wouldn't want you as my doctor, but I wouldn't want you to lie to me either ;-)
Quote from: Jagella on May 08, 2020, 11:57:50 AM
Note that as far as we can tell nobody in that video spoke up to say what you posted here. The "healing" could not have more clearly failed. The faith of those Christians was evidently not shaken one bit by proof that their belief in miracles has failed miserably at least once.
If I had been present there and then I would have told the man in the wheelchair that he was being lied to and being fed false hope. He should learn to live with his disability the best way he can, but more than that, he should value himself as the worthwhile man he is--great things that Christianity fails to deliver on.
That's the thing with christians (and other theists), facts and thinking matters not to them. You can 'prove' something to them and they still will not believe you. You can throw trumpites into that mess, as well. Facts matter not................
Quote from: Mike Cl on May 08, 2020, 01:05:47 PM
That's the thing with christians (and other theists), facts and thinking matters not to them. You can 'prove' something to them and they still will not believe you. You can throw trumpites into that mess, as well. Facts matter not................
And Hitlery supporters ;-) People aren't logical. We aren't Vulcans either ... we act based on psychology, not abstract math.
There are no Hillary supporters, you're living in the past. Try keeping up with current events.
Quote from: Unbeliever on May 08, 2020, 02:14:51 PM
There are no Hillary supporters, you're living in the past. Try keeping up with current events.
But how is he supposed to engage in dismissive what-aboutism if he can't keep bringing up a politician who lost years ago, who many Democrats weren't very fond of in the first place, and have no bearing on modern events?
Quote from: Unbeliever on May 08, 2020, 02:14:51 PM
There are no Hillary supporters, you're living in the past. Try keeping up with current events.
You still support Karl Marx, who has been dead how long?? Or are you claiming Biden likes to smell your hair?
Quote from: Blackleaf on May 08, 2020, 02:28:31 PM
But how is he supposed to engage in dismissive what-aboutism if he can't keep bringing up a politician who lost years ago, who many Democrats weren't very fond of in the first place, and have no bearing on modern events?
How can you deny your god? ;-) ... she will be you nominee, or VP. Bill needs access to more young women ;-)) Cuomo is too busy being NY governor.
Yea, some were Bernie supporters. Taken to the cleaners twice!
Quote from: Mike Cl on May 08, 2020, 01:05:47 PM
That's the thing with christians (and other theists), facts and thinking matters not to them. You can 'prove' something to them and they still will not believe you. You can throw trumpites into that mess, as well. Facts matter not................
Yes, and what you're saying here is very important. Many people, even some atheists, insist that we leave Christians to their own devices. "If they want to believe it, then let them go ahead!" That's nonsense because the "devices" of Christians can and do harm innocent people. The rights of Christians end where the rights of others begin. People need to be protected from all kinds of quackery, and that includes faith healing.
I like J. Randy but....
(https://i.pinimg.com/564x/88/55/8e/88558e6b2a37ed3d44f4d1e8a17dbab7.jpg)
Quote from: Jagella on May 08, 2020, 05:14:01 PM
Yes, and what you're saying here is very important. Many people, even some atheists, insist that we leave Christians to their own devices. "If they want to believe it, then let them go ahead!" That's nonsense because the "devices" of Christians can and do harm innocent people. The rights of Christians end where the rights of others begin. People need to be protected from all kinds of quackery, and that includes faith healing.
Typically in US law, in the case of media say radio, it is illegal to make false claims. This was used to shut down Tarot card on-line scams. The US law is very serious about false medical claims (this would include faith healing). The question is, will existing law be enforced?
Quote from: Jagella on May 08, 2020, 05:14:01 PM
Yes, and what you're saying here is very important. Many people, even some atheists, insist that we leave Christians to their own devices. "If they want to believe it, then let them go ahead!" That's nonsense because the "devices" of Christians can and do harm innocent people. The rights of Christians end where the rights of others begin. People need to be protected from all kinds of quackery, and that includes faith healing.
I quite agree--it IS important. Theists insist that they have a 'right' to force their beliefs on me. If they have a problem with contraception's; or abortions; or drinking; or dressing a certain way; or certain medications; or holidays; or any number of things, then don't use them or eat them or observe them--but don't tell me what to do or how to do it. They have a right to believe as they wish; but not if it directly impacts me.
Quote from: Mike Cl on May 08, 2020, 07:38:10 PM
I quite agree--it IS important. Theists insist that they have a 'right' to force their beliefs on me. If they have a problem with contraception's; or abortions; or drinking; or dressing a certain way; or certain medications; or holidays; or any number of things, then don't use them or eat them or observe them--but don't tell me what to do or how to do it. They have a right to believe as they wish; but not if it directly impacts me.
When on the defensive, they always retreat to their "worldview" defense. They want tolerance for their beliefs, but they'll turn right back and express nothing but intolerance for everyone else.
Quote from: Mike Cl on May 08, 2020, 07:38:10 PM
I quite agree--it IS important. Theists insist that they have a 'right' to force their beliefs on me. If they have a problem with contraception's; or abortions; or drinking; or dressing a certain way; or certain medications; or holidays; or any number of things, then don't use them or eat them or observe them--but don't tell me what to do or how to do it. They have a right to believe as they wish; but not if it directly impacts me.
I have a problem with anyone using force or brainwashing on me. I am not converting to Islam etc. We agree however that the government has this right. Which is why it is important to keep religion and state separate. When the Republicans went Evangelical in the 80s, they totally lost me. Of course they weren't genuinely religious, they were vote caging. Just like Labour in GB does with the Muslim vote.
Quote from: Blackleaf on May 08, 2020, 08:21:05 PM
When on the defensive, they always retreat to their "worldview" defense. They want tolerance for their beliefs, but they'll turn right back and express nothing but intolerance for everyone else.
I like tolerant atheists too. It is the combination of atheism with communism that burns. Communists are intolerant.
Miracles are not merely claims of the supernatural or the highly improbable but claims of causality. The preacher, the sacred spring, the prayer vigil, a particular god or whatnot is assigned credit for someone's ailment resolving or someone surviving a calamity. I can agree that something amazing, fortuitous or highly improbable happened without agreeing that X caused it. I'm not saying I know why your malignant tumor disappeared but I seriously doubt you know why either.
Quote from: Paolo on May 06, 2020, 02:56:59 AM
In general, how do you see miracle stories? Like those from pastors such as Todd White, or people claiming to have been cured from incurable diseases...do you dismiss them out of hand or do you think they need each a case-for-case evaluation?
How would you (or anyone) establish even the potential for miracles, let alone that one happened?
When something happens, its cause is either known or unknown. Known causes are always mundane and unknown causes are just that - unknown. As they are pieced together, they may become known. Or, if not, they may stay unknown for the time being.
Whence comes miracles? The best case scenario (for a believer) is something that is unknown and stays unknown. But is it not a leap in logic to say that just because something is unknown that it must be supernatural? Imo, that's like going into a pitch-black room and describing the colors of the objects therein. At best, that's just guesswork. At worst, it's entirely wrong.
Quote from: Blackleaf on May 08, 2020, 08:21:05 PM
When on the defensive, they always retreat to their "worldview" defense. They want tolerance for their beliefs, but they'll turn right back and express nothing but intolerance for everyone else.
Right. And conveniently, the "worldview" defense can be used for anything and everything. Disease is caused by demons. 2 + 2 = 5. The world is a mote in a giant's eye. All are equally valid worldviews which should be afforded respect simply because some people believe them. Wouldn't want to be intolerant, right?
Quote from: Hydra009 on May 09, 2020, 01:00:36 AM
Right. And conveniently, the "worldview" defense can be used for anything and everything. Disease is caused by demons. 2 + 2 = 5. The world is a mote in a giant's eye. All are equally valid worldviews which should be afforded respect simply because some people believe them. Wouldn't want to be intolerant, right?
Why is it bad to be intolerant? It depends what it is you're intolerant against.
Quote from: Hydra009 on May 09, 2020, 12:39:39 AM
is it not a leap in logic to say that just because something is unknown that it must be supernatural?
The argument from ignorance is pretty much what all religious thinking centers around. It is so old and so common that it is nothing less than boring. It is stupid and self righteous. It is hubris.
Quote from: Sal1981 on May 09, 2020, 04:53:13 AM
Why is it bad to be intolerant? It depends what it is you're intolerant against.
I was being heavily sarcastic there. Of course, opinions based essentially on nothing should be met with incredulity, if not openly mocked. I support the sort of conversational intolerance that Sam Harris advocates.
Quote from: Sal1981 on May 09, 2020, 04:53:13 AM
Why is it bad to be intolerant? It depends what it is you're intolerant against.
I hate all Internet posters. Prove me wrong! ;-)
Quote from: Hydra009 on May 09, 2020, 01:00:36 AM
Right. And conveniently, the "worldview" defense can be used for anything and everything. Disease is caused by demons. 2 + 2 = 5. The world is a mote in a giant's eye. All are equally valid worldviews which should be afforded respect simply because some people believe them. Wouldn't want to be intolerant, right?
This is why the hubbub since the 80s about the Fairness Doctrine in the US, from 1949 to 1987.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FCC_fairness_doctrine
Equal-Time Rule only dealt with political candidates.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal-time_rule
The Equal-Time Rule still applies, but in practice means that only the D-R duopoly gets coverage.
Quote from: Hydra009 on May 09, 2020, 01:00:36 AM
Right. And conveniently, the "worldview" defense can be used for anything and everything. Disease is caused by demons. 2 + 2 = 5. The world is a mote in a giant's eye. All are equally valid worldviews which should be afforded respect simply because some people believe them. Wouldn't want to be intolerant, right?
And that is why in GB, Islam gets a walk on their shit, but no other religion does. Islam kills you if you object ;-)
Quote from: SGOS on May 09, 2020, 07:42:12 AM
The argument from ignorance is pretty much what all religious thinking centers around. It is so old and so common that it is nothing less than boring. It is stupid and self righteous. It is hubris.
Almost no American understands money. They shouldn't be allowed to use it. And yes, I am mocking Americans in general (not you in particular). On the other hand, mocking some people will get you beat up or killed ;-(
Quote from: Mike Cl on May 08, 2020, 08:43:20 AM
Yeah, you are too gullible.
Thanks for both the confirmation and the insult! ;)
However, I was more impressed by the comments below the video rather than the video itself (which I didn't even watch properly). I guess I still have some years before I reach Carl Sagan-level of skepticism.
Sorry if I wasted everybody's time. :(
Quote from: Paolo on May 09, 2020, 11:03:12 PM
Thanks for both the confirmation and the insult! ;)
However, I was more impressed by the comments below the video rather than the video itself (which I didn't even watch properly). I guess I still have some years before I reach Carl Sagan-level of skepticism.
Sorry if I wasted everybody's time. :(
You are being more thin skinned than gullible. Relax, enjoy the ride. I often find the comments below a video to be the most interesting too.
Quote from: Paolo on May 09, 2020, 11:03:12 PM
Thanks for both the confirmation and the insult! ;)
However, I was more impressed by the comments below the video rather than the video itself (which I didn't even watch properly). I guess I still have some years before I reach Carl Sagan-level of skepticism.
Sorry if I wasted everybody's time. :(
Sorry, Paolo, I didn't really mean to insult you. My comment was more of a matter of fact type statement. Read Skeptic magazine for awhile, it will sharpen your skeptic ability.
Quote from: Baruch on May 09, 2020, 11:06:54 PM
You are being more thin skinned than gullible. Relax, enjoy the ride. I often find the comments below a video to be the most interesting too.
Thank you.
Quote from: Mike Cl on May 09, 2020, 11:10:35 PM
Sorry, Paolo, I didn't really mean to insult you. My comment was more of a matter of fact type statement. Read Skeptic magazine for awhile, it will sharpen your skeptic ability.
Ok.
Who wants some Chicken?
https://www.youtube.com/embed/gjSW6rOvQ80
Back in the day, most Americans were going to Church on Sunday, and had fried chicken after worship. This was nearly fatal to me and my family, back in the late 90s, because on a hot summer day, after worship and eating a Sunday meal including fried chicken, at the local cafe, the chicken tended to make me fall asleep while I was driving home ;-( Some people just aren't up for nostalgia.