There is no Covid-19 in my county reported yet. I shopped yesterday at Aldi's for bread that I like. It was early, and the supplies were low. I was only allowed two loaves. I usually buy six, because it's a 60 mile round trip. Aldi's has wide isles, and even in an empty store, 6 feet of social distance requires swift sidestepping. I have considered doing future shopping at Dollar General, because as a convenience store, there is seldom a crowd. But the isles are narrow and 6 feet of social distancing is impossible. What I'd really like to do is isolate as much as possible.
With rationing as I experienced it, hoarding is controlled, but it also results in more people making more frequent trips to the store, which increases risk, so I'm wondering about the negative social reaction to hoarders. I see it as a two edged sword with both benefits and drawbacks to society as a whole. Going to the store once every two months, seems less risk than going three times a week.
There is no perfect way to deal with this problem. I recently read an article finding fault with senior only hours being promoted at a few stores (none in my area at all). It included interviews with customers that described crowds and cheaters, and one guy interviewed said outside the store, "If you didn't have Covid-19 before you went shopping, you will have it now." Dollar General advertises such a program, but there is no store security to enforce it, and I see no such hours posted on the door. My rural area is just now seeing affects of hoarding, rationing, and distancing. My Walmart used to be open 24 hours, but now during the pandemic, it closes at 8:00PM further concentrating customers during normal shopping hours.
Quote from: SGOS on March 24, 2020, 11:36:55 AM
There is no Covid-19 in my county reported yet. I shopped yesterday at Aldi's for bread that I like. It was early, and the supplies were low. I was only allowed two loaves. I usually buy six, because it's a 60 mile round trip. Aldi's has wide isles, and even in an empty store, 6 feet of social distance requires swift sidestepping. I have considered doing future shopping at Dollar General, because as a convenience store, there is seldom a crowd. But the isles are narrow and 6 feet of social distancing is impossible. What I'd really like to do is isolate as much as possible.
With rationing as I experienced it, hoarding is controlled, but it also results in more people making more frequent trips to the store, which increases risk, so I'm wondering about the negative social reaction to hoarders. I see it as a two edged sword with both benefits and drawbacks to society as a whole. Going to the store once every two months, seems less risk than going three times a week.
There is no perfect way to deal with this problem. I recently read an article finding fault with senior only hours being promoted at a few stores (none in my area at all). It included interviews with customers that described crowds and cheaters, and one guy interviewed said outside the store, "If you didn't have Covid-19 before you went shopping, you will have it now." Dollar General advertises such a program, but there is no store security to enforce it, and I see no such hours posted on the door. My rural area is just now seeing affects of hoarding, rationing, and distancing. My Walmart used to be open 24 hours, but now during the pandemic, it closes at 8:00PM further concentrating customers during normal shopping hours.
That was a problem--shopping for fresh produce and which store would be safest (if any). I then remembered that Raley's had started a computer program--you make a list and they fill it and you just pick it up. When looking for that program stumbled across Instacart; it will allow you to chose from a list of things to buy, you check the list and a shopper will gather them and bring them to your home. Something like 8/10 stores use it, including Costco. So we gave it a try, ordered from Costco and they delivered to our door within 3 hrs. It cost us a little over $11 beyond the cost of the goods; well worth it. Did not have to get very close to the delivery guy--had him put the items on the porch--when he left I disinfected all the packages and then brought them in. I live in a town with 85,000; so, if a small town like mine has this service, maybe where you live will something like it. Now I feel confident we could stay house bound for several months if need be.
Quote from: Mike Cl on March 24, 2020, 11:46:11 AM
I live in a town with 85,000; so, if a small town like mine has this service, maybe where you live will something like it. Now I feel confident we could stay house bound for several months if need be.
The closest to this is Walmart's shop on the internet and pick up, but that involves going into the store and waiting at customer service. Three people in that line is a long drawn out procedure that is like waiting in a checkout line with 30 people.
I will look up instacart. Costco is 100 miles away, but they will ship many nonperishables by mail. I've got enough of those already. It's just a normal part of my larder.
Quote from: SGOS on March 24, 2020, 12:11:49 PM
The closest to this is Walmart's shop on the internet and pick up, but that involves going into the store and waiting at customer service. Three people in that line is a long drawn out procedure that is like waiting in a checkout line with 30 people.
I will look up instacart. Costco is 100 miles away, but they will ship many nonperishables by mail. I've got enough of those already. It's just a normal part of my larder.
I thought Merced was isolated. :) All we really need every now and again will be fresh produce which we can have delivered to us. Plus, I live in a huge valley that is about 600/700 miles long and produces much of our countries fresh produce; hence there are several roadside fruit/veg stands selling produce. But that still means leaving the house, which I will not do for awhile. Good luck on your hunt for groceries.
Instarcart here requires in store pickup.
That's too bad. But that does cut down the exposure time anyway. You must really be out in the country!
We can order out here. Red Cross is even volunteering to drive out grocery goods out to people in quarantines.
Unless you get full shutdown. Then no food, no meds, nada. Can't have stuff delivered if there are no delivery vehicles allowed, and the post office/Federal Express is shut down.
I expect more options for sanitary shopping may become available as this goes on. I'm hoping it happens in rural areas too.
Anybody wants 6' distance, they can go get it.
In October my husband retired from the airlines after 35 years and now works at Trader Joe's (grocery store). He can bring home food, and hopefully not coronavirus. We are lucky to both be working but we are definitely more exposed. Considering that experts estimate 40-70% of people will contract coronavirus we are anticipating eventually we will get it.
Quote...85,000; so, if a small town like mine has this service
I know this has nothing to do with the topic at hand, but damn you and I have vastly different ideas of what a small town is lol. That is a good sized city... a town is like where I live, where we have about 20000 people, and that's honestly a lot larger than where I grew up, a proper small town (around 4000 people). Even that is on the large size though.
Quote from: GSOgymrat on March 24, 2020, 04:41:32 PM
In October my husband retired from the airlines after 35 years and now works at Trader Joe's (grocery store). He can bring home food, and hopefully not coronavirus. We are lucky to both be working but we are definitely more exposed. Considering that experts estimate 40-70% of people will contract coronavirus we are anticipating eventually we will get it.
Hope not. Dress up as Chick-Fil-A cows, to get herd immunity ;-) I am also lucky to be retired from military medical IT admin.
Quote from: Shiranu on March 24, 2020, 04:46:03 PM
I know this has nothing to do with the topic at hand, but damn you and I have vastly different ideas of what a small town is lol. That is a good sized city... a town is like where I live, where we have about 20000 people, and that's honestly a lot larger than where I grew up, a proper small town (around 4000 people). Even that is on the large size though.
Best size in US ... 40,000 with a college ;-)
Quote from: Shiranu on March 24, 2020, 04:46:03 PM
I know this has nothing to do with the topic at hand, but damn you and I have vastly different ideas of what a small town is lol. That is a good sized city... a town is like where I live, where we have about 20000 people, and that's honestly a lot larger than where I grew up, a proper small town (around 4000 people). Even that is on the large size though.
I guess 85,000 isn't that small. But by comparison, it is. 50 miles south Fresno has close to a million and 35 the other way Modesto has about 250,000. And Merced has a small city mentality in that the-good-old-boys run the show. Even with a full blown university here (fairly new) it is still small town thinking. It's nickname is Merdead. Neither Wholefoods nor Trader Joe's will build here because too many are uneducated or undereducated; we asked corporate and that was the message they gave us. It is ag based and has a huge diversity of cultures--Mexican, Hmomg, Punjobi, skinhead types, and more. It is a little bible belt as well with old white men running the show. White power is strong. Christian mainly--so it is usually a backward thinking area. Loved Bush and they love Trump.
Quote from: Mike Cl on March 24, 2020, 12:41:06 PM
That's too bad. But that does cut down the exposure time anyway. You must really be out in the country!
I'm going to give the Instacart option a try. It's 30 miles round trip to do the pickup, but it does decrease my exposure time in the store. The drive is not the concern. it's actually my closest destination. It's not the best solution, but it may be the best one available to me, and that's as much as I can do.
As for my location, I'm more isolated here in rural Virginia than I was in Montana. Part of this is that retirement allows me to live farther away from a daily obligation. My town, which isn't really a town, but just a place where a few struggling enterprises have set up along a part of the highway where traffic is briefly slowed down to 45mph. We have a Post Office, Fire Department, gas station, and of all things, a hair dressers salon. Also, Dollar General just opened up a convenience type grocery business, which I understand is also struggling. There are maybe 6 or 8 homes in what I call "town." The rest of us are spread around part of the county on small farms, or parts of what used to be farms. Population of the entire county is under 18,000, which looks like this. My house is somewhere back toward the far horizon in this picture.
(https://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/0b/7c/76/38/lovers-leap-scenic-overlook.jpg)
That sounds and looks great. Kind of reminds me of my grandparents little farm 20 miles north of Portland, Oregon. They were 3 miles from a little town of 900. Spent quite a bit of time there until my mid 30's. I really liked it there. I do hope Instacart works for you. Stay safe, tho.
St. Louis freeways are currently a breeze. I'd love to take time lapse movies of the traffic over the next thirty days. People will get bored. Being scared to death isn't permanent.
I went shopping for shoes the other day. Went to WalMart. The bread aisle was fairly empty, but the baking aisle was fully stocked. The meat were nearly empty, but the canned meats were mostly stocked. In the snack foods aisle they had lots of nuts and jerky. I went to the camping equipment, and that section was fully stocked and looked like few if any people had been there, including all the emergency supplies.
Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on March 25, 2020, 10:23:03 PM
I went shopping for shoes the other day. Went to WalMart. The bread aisle was fairly empty, but the baking aisle was fully stocked. The meat were nearly empty, but the canned meats were mostly stocked. In the snack foods aisle they had lots of nuts and jerky. I went to the camping equipment, and that section was fully stocked and looked like few if any people had been there, including all the emergency supplies.
ordinarily I'd not ask, but seems like an odd time to be looking for shoes, unless it was an emergency.
I bought a new pair of flip-flops yesterday. $5.88 to help out China's economy.
Quote from: Munch on March 25, 2020, 11:13:26 PM
ordinarily I'd not ask, but seems like an odd time to be looking for shoes, unless it was an emergency.
Shoes are quite literally in the top 3 most important human inventions, ever. Our ancestors had a hell of a rough time with them, infections on the feet lead to death way too often to really comprehend in our modern world, and... well, they are just more comfortable than walking on the ground or a few straps of leather or cloth.
They are valuable both as a resource and a commodity.
What are the other two in the top three? Fire? Wheel? Writing? Boats? Staff/spear?
Quote from: Hydra009 on March 26, 2020, 07:37:43 AM
What are the other two in the top three? Fire? Wheel? Writing? Boats? Staff/spear?
Based on Shir's criteria for shoes I'm going to have to go with the toothbrush and dental floss.
Quote from: Hydra009 on March 26, 2020, 07:37:43 AM
What are the other two in the top three? Fire? Wheel? Writing? Boats? Staff/spear?
Since we first started throwing rocks at each other, I'm going with weapons, either for actual self defense or just recreationaly killing each other. Somewhere down on the list would be the printing press, so we can read the American Rifleman. Do they still call it that? Rifleman sounds so 20th Century.
If we're going weapons, it's the spear hands down for most of human history. It's so simple and easy made and practical. It had universal appeal - no matter who you were or were you lived, you used a spear. It's mystifying to me that swords ever got more popular spears.
Quote from: Hydra009 on March 26, 2020, 09:54:55 AM
If we're going weapons, it's the spear hands down for most of human history. It's so simple and easy made and practical. It had universal appeal - no matter who you were or were you lived, you used a spear. It's mystifying to me that swords ever got more popular spears.
Yes, most innovations in weaponry involved killing at a greater and greater distances, which makes sense. Swords didn't do that, and put the user more directly in harms way, and then there were the axes and spiked balls at the end of a long chain. I don't think I would have enjoyed going into battle with that stuff. You would find me running for the ridge, and leaving my clubs and bashers on the ground, while looking for a better king to pledge my allegiance to.
Quote from: SGOS on March 26, 2020, 10:04:04 AM
Yes, most innovations in weaponry involved killing at a greater and greater distances, which makes sense. Swords didn't do that, and put the user more directly in harms way, and then there were the axes and spiked balls at the end of a long chain. I don't think I would have enjoyed going into battle with that stuff. You would find me running for the ridge, and leaving my clubs and bashers on the ground, while looking for a better king to pledge my allegiance to.
In the Iliad, it was considered cowardly to throw a spear (javelin) or use a bow & arrows. Teucer, half-brother of Ajax (the greater) was the best Greek bowman. Prince Paris (Alexander) was the best Trojan bowman. He would shoot his bow from behind the great shield of his brother. Prince Paris famously shot Achilles in the heel with a poisoned arrow and killed him.
The "Parthian Shot" ... in ancient Persia 2000 years ago, the numerous Persian archer cavalry would feign retreat, while shooting their bow backward from their mount (horse on autopilot). This was often fatal to Roman armies (mostly infantry).
Quote from: SGOS on March 26, 2020, 09:29:17 AM
Since we first started throwing rocks at each other, I'm going with weapons, either for actual self defense or just recreationaly killing each other. Somewhere down on the list would be the printing press, so we can read the American Rifleman. Do they still call it that? Rifleman sounds so 20th Century.
Chuck Connors.
Johnny Crawford--whinny brat kid.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f6/Chuck_Connors_Johnny_Crawford_The_Rifleman_1960.JPG/220px-Chuck_Connors_Johnny_Crawford_The_Rifleman_1960.JPG)
Johnny Crawford and Chuck Connors The Rifleman 1960
Quote from: SGOS on March 26, 2020, 03:25:31 PM
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f6/Chuck_Connors_Johnny_Crawford_The_Rifleman_1960.JPG/220px-Chuck_Connors_Johnny_Crawford_The_Rifleman_1960.JPG)
Johnny Crawford and Chuck Connors The Rifleman 1960
Like I said--whinny brat kid. And Connors was a better 1B for the Chicago Cubs than he was an actor.
Quote from: Hydra009 on March 26, 2020, 07:37:43 AM
What are the other two in the top three? Fire? Wheel? Writing? Boats? Staff/spear?
Probably fire and agriculture/domestication of animals, though I am torn on those just because it is the reason we have overpopulated in the first place and can thus also be to blame for so much of the evil in the world. If I let that knock it out of second place, I would have to give the second most important invention a bit more thought before I said anything definitively, but control of fire is easily the most important invention in human history.
Writing, I'm not sold on. There were very advanced civilizations that had only rudimentary understanding of writing and yet operated perfectly fine. Humanity could live perfectly fine without it, though it is certainly great. A top 5 invention, but not sure if it cracks my top 3.
QuoteBased on Shir's criteria for shoes I'm going to have to go with the toothbrush and dental floss.
Elaborate.
Quote from: Mike Cl on March 26, 2020, 03:06:29 PM
Johnny Crawford--whinny brat kid.
One of the most dismissable characters from an age of fluffy airheads.
and into todays headlines of an individual who give a good case for returning the hung drawn and quartered method of punishment.
https://metro.co.uk/2020/03/26/supermarket-dump-35000-food-twisted-woman-deliberately-coughed-12460956/
Quote‘Twisted’ woman went to supermarket just to cough on $35,000 of food that had to be dumped
A supermarket was forced to throw out $35,000 worth of fresh fruit, vegetables, meat and bakery products after a ‘twisted’ customer walked around coughing on it. The unidentified woman, who is said to regularly act like a nuisance at Gerrity’s Supermarket in Hanover Township, Pennsylvania, reportedly came in on Tuesday especially to cough on food during the ongoing coronavirus pandemic. Shop worker Joe Fasula wrote on the store’s Facebook page: ‘Today was a very challenging day. ‘At 2:20 p.m. today, I got a call from our Hanover Township store. ‘The manager informed that a woman, who the police know to be a chronic problem in the community, came in to the store and proceeded to purposely cough on our fresh produce, and a small section of our bakery, meat case and grocery.
‘I’m also absolutely sick to my stomach about the loss of food. ‘While it is always a shame when food is wasted, in these times when so many people are worried about the security of our food supply, it is even more disturbing.’ Fasula said staff dumped every piece of food coughed on by the woman, before disinfecting shelves. They worked to shepherd her out of the store as quickly as possible, with the woman not believed to be suffering from any Covid-19 symptoms. She was subsequently arrested, with prosecutors now planning criminal charges against her. Fasula said that the incident gave his staff the chance to practice emergency coronavirus procedures â€" and has assured customers that the supermarket is now even cleaner as a result.
The woman’s cough attack came as 26 year-old Cody Pfister, from St Louis, Missouri, was charged with licking a deodorant at a Walmart store. So far, almost 70,000 Americans have been infected with coronavirus, with close to 1,000 dead as a result. Officials have warned the entire nation to observe social distancing procedures in a bid to avoid the virus, which can easily be spread through coughs or sneezes.
Quite the joker.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efHCdKb5UWc
Quote from: Munch on March 26, 2020, 09:12:03 PM
and into todays headlines of an individual who give a good case for returning the hung drawn and quartered method of punishment.
https://metro.co.uk/2020/03/26/supermarket-dump-35000-food-twisted-woman-deliberately-coughed-12460956/
Fill her mouth with wasps.
Quote from: Shiranu on March 26, 2020, 06:25:15 PM
Elaborate.
It is pretty well documented that dental abscesses killed a lot of people in antiquity. Egypt is probably the best known example because we literally have tens of thousands of thousands of year old bodies to examine. There is a lot of sand in Egypt. It gets into everything including the food. Sand is highly abrasive, and caused rapid dental wear. This led to abscesses that killed a lot of people. We have a lot of mummies that show exactly that. Egypt isn't the only example either. In many historic cultures people chewed hides to soften them. Once again leading to high tooth wear and deadly abscesses. I won't argue that infected feet didn't kill people before shoes, but I'm not aware of a bunch ancient corpses that forensic analysis says were killed by foot infections. Plus there are still places in the world where aboriginals don't wear shoes. I can't remember hearing about no shoes killing a bunch of them.
So your reasoning that shoes helped cut down on infections and saved lives led to me thinking that if true, good oral hygiene probably saved more lives than shoes. Therefore if shoes are # 3 then the toothbrush and dental floss must be 1 and 2.
BTW. While all good things I don't rank toothbrushes, dental floss or shoes that high on my list of human's greatest inventions.
Fair enough. I would change it to "dental hygiene" as a whole then though, and I would say that actually does fall into my top 10 at least... though that's getting awfully close to just generic "health/medicine".
However dental hygiene has less effect on your day to day life, significantly, than shoes. You can work with a cavity, missing teeth, a tooth ache, whatever... as long as it isn't killing you, you can work with it. Just look at the condition of some people's teeth even today and they are perfectly capable of working.
Your feet is an entirely different matter, particularly if we are going back all the way to hunter-gather times, but honestly all the way up until the last 40 years as computers have made us more sedentary. Shoes help prevent injuries as well as infections, and for a species that specializes in being mobile, it is literally life changing to have even a slight wound to your foot.
Quote from: Munch on March 26, 2020, 09:12:03 PM
and into todays headlines of an individual who give a good case for returning the hung drawn and quartered method of punishment.
https://metro.co.uk/2020/03/26/supermarket-dump-35000-food-twisted-woman-deliberately-coughed-12460956/
There may not be the right legal tools to get her hospitalized in a mental ward. Although jail would at least remove her from society. Either way, it would be a win. She may or may not be nuts.
Quote from: SGOS on March 27, 2020, 03:17:10 AM
There may not be the right legal tools to get her hospitalized in a mental ward. Although jail would at least remove her from society. Either way, it would be a win. She may or may not be nuts.
Reagan "mainstreamed" the crazies, dumped them on the streets. Cheaper for the taxpayers.
Quote from: PopeyesPappy on March 26, 2020, 10:37:45 PMThere is a lot of sand in Egypt. It gets into everything including the food.
Plus, it's coarse and rough and irritating. I don't like it.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on March 27, 2020, 07:26:53 AM
Reagan "mainstreamed" the crazies, dumped them on the streets. Cheaper for the taxpayers.
Social activist, Dr Liang, in 1970s. What happened under Reagan was outpatient and community homes. This was Progressive. That and a certain popular movie … One Flew Over ..
Quote from: Baruch on March 27, 2020, 08:23:27 AM
Social activist, Dr Liang, in 1970s. What happened under Reagan was outpatient and community homes. This was Progressive. That and a certain popular movie … One Flew Over ..
And the conservatives ran with it, disregarding any cautions the mental health professionals gave them.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on March 27, 2020, 11:48:43 AM
And the conservatives ran with it, disregarding any cautions the mental health professionals gave them.
Yes, Republicans are just as SJW as the Democrats, they differ on which party should form the dictatorship ;-) There were people who said Dr Liang, a mental doctor, was mental himself ;-( But his view prevailed, because no local government wanted to fund the sanatariums.
Quote from: BaruchBut his view prevailed, because no local government wanted to fund the sanatariums.
Bingo!
Quote from: GSOgymrat on March 27, 2020, 05:43:11 PM
Bingo!
So what political system, other than anarchism, will free us from stupid bureaucracy?
Quote from: Baruch on March 27, 2020, 09:18:45 PM
So what political system, other than anarchism, will free us from stupid bureaucracy?
cthulhuism
Quote from: Munch on March 27, 2020, 09:39:11 PM
cthulhuism
My daughter, in her Goth phase, made crochet Cthulhus ;-)
(https://www.jesusandmo.net/wp-content/uploads/safe.png)
Quote from: Baruch on March 27, 2020, 09:45:41 PM
My daughter, in her Goth phase, made crochet Cthulhus ;-)
aww, she's trying to summon the great old ones ^^
Quote from: Munch on March 28, 2020, 03:02:37 PM
aww, she's trying to summon the great old ones ^^
Yes, their flesh is made from colorful yarn rather than clay, a kind of golem.
Didn't take a illegal space alien (secular Jesus) to stop the world ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dd67coPlz4
Just a bunch of governors, PMs etc to order everything closed down ;-)
Greta wanted to be in charge of that!
Quote from: Munch on March 25, 2020, 11:13:26 PM
ordinarily I'd not ask, but seems like an odd time to be looking for shoes, unless it was an emergency.
Few things are as important as good shoes. Plus my job at Northrop is exempt from state-level closures so I need to show up for work.
The point though, if I honestly thought it was a crisis and needed survival supplies, the first place I'd hit is the camping section to get camping cooking gear, camping tools, propane stove, emergency blankets, etc. The people picking up all the toilet paper don't seem to know that.