No mass, ok.
But there must not be a volüme...
I gradually began to think that there must be some kind of power, say it a god or something, whatever.
But there must be some power, and it must be conscious, more intelligent than us, whom it has created...
What?!
What point you do not understand exactly?
The topic signifies a proposition if you can imagine the absolute nihil.
Nihil is a latin Word, which means nothingness?
can you imagine nothing neess?
The End is the end.
Can you further clarify?
I can't imagine nothing but I can imagine the moment after.
What we call ''time'' is the total number of ''moments'' that flow.
It is considered that time is the 4th dimension in the universe. Otherwise we cannot understand the science physics.
Maybe our brains was programmed to be able to understand the 4 dimension paradigm.
Lots of ways has to be taken to further understand what's going on in the universe.
Quote from: SoldierofFortune on March 08, 2020, 07:09:26 AM
What we call ''time'' is the total number of ''moments'' that flow.
It is considered that time is the 4th dimension in the universe. Otherwise we cannot understand the science physics.
Maybe our brains was programmed to be able to understand the 4 dimension paradigm.
Lots of ways has to be taken to further understand what's going on in the universe.
No, I can't imagine it. Nihilists think they can, but they are loony.
Time and space are human sensory fields, that have evolved for human survival. The idea that they exist as such, independent of human beings, is Platonic error. What may exist apart from human senses and human perception (neural processing) we don't know, aka called qualia in philosophy. Of course philosophy itself has been a mad Greek thing from the beginning, first oversimplification (everything is water, is air etc) and subversive (see Socrates). I am surprised a Turk would be taken in by the ouzo fueled BS ;-)
Einstein's version of Platonic reality is more refined than the Newtonian version, but it is still Platonic. One is assuming that Plato is correct about "The Cave". There is no good reason to believe that. So just as physics majors avoid discussing what QM means, philosophy majors avoid discussing the vacuity of their epistemology. In QM the answer is "shut up and calculate" ... for philosophy it is "shut up and cogitate" ... as with Thales, lets assume that no gods are involved (he also said all things are full of gods). Philosophy of all kinds, Western, Indian etc are the largest straw-men arguments in existence.
Quote from: SoldierofFortune on March 08, 2020, 04:56:52 AM
No mass, ok.
But there must not be a volüme...
I gradually began to think that there must be some kind of power, say it a god or something, whatever.
But there must be some power, and it must be conscious, more intelligent than us, whom it has created...
Classic. Once again, a person who wants an 'answer' invents an 'intelligence (god), to help create an answer so his little mind can become still. He seems to be saying--If I don't know the answer to my question, then God. Wishful believing.
The universe “looksâ€at us with complete indifference. It matters not a wit what we think or believe. It is. We are. Then we won’t be...but it will continue till the recycling. And maybe a few of your atoms will happen upon each other by mere chance. But they won’t recognize each other, nor care.
"Nothing" is what "I" was before "I" was conceived, and what "I" will again be after "I" fulfill my bucket list. The only thing on my bucket list is kicking the bucket.
But It seems that "nothing" is unstable, because there is only exactly one way for "nothing" to be the case, whereas there is an infinite number of ways for "something" to be the case. So "nothing" will immediately decay into "something" and continue from there.
https://skepticalinquirer.org/newsletter/why-is-there-something-rather-than-nothing/?/sb/show/why-is-there-something-rather-than-nothing/
QuoteThen why is there something rather than nothing? Because something is the more natural state of affairs and is thus more likely than nothing-more than twice as likely according to one calculation. We can infer this from the processes of nature where simple systems tend to be unstable and often spontaneously transform into more complex ones. Theoretical models such as the inflationary model of the early universe bear this out.
Quote from: aitm on March 08, 2020, 05:27:02 PM
The universe “looksâ€at us with complete indifference. It matters not a wit what we think or believe. It is. We are. Then we won’t be...but it will continue till the recycling. And maybe a few of your atoms will happen upon each other by mere chance. But they won’t recognize each other, nor care.
The universe does not care, but we do... Are not we the by-products of the universe?
According to the fact as we observe that the universe somehow has created a thinking, conscious mind; so, from indifferent atoms can exist beings who/which can think, have minds, are consious; like humans.
Non-living atoms can make up living organisms, and living organisms can lead to a consicious minds…as we observe; i am not talking about non-human beings, which cannot be aware of their existence and the approaching reality that someday will come and we will die.
Once the evolution of the mind begin, especially the mind like the humans have that can invent tools and sci&tech. , and that can enhance its capacity and can make use of the full potetial of its capacity, there is NO limit to prevent it from improving…
Yes we are “by productsâ€. But we think we are something grander. We are not. We are indeed a by product. To the universe we are useless. And as we have proven to ourselves time and again, completely indispensable to our own end. We kill without regard for what a particular brain may contain..only that it is a body in need of disposal.
Quote from: SoldierofFortune on March 08, 2020, 05:16:59 AM
Can you further clarify?
The End is the end of all knowledge. Beyond it is the unknown.
Quote from: Gregory on March 08, 2020, 09:20:08 PM
The End is the end of all knowledge. Beyond it is the unknown.
Knowledge is over-rated.
I will die. My soul will be destroyed. The End.
Quote from: Gregory on March 08, 2020, 09:50:23 PM
I will die. My soul will be destroyed. The End.
If you aren't African-American, you have no soul, no rhythm.
Quote from: Gregory on March 08, 2020, 09:50:23 PM
I will die. My soul will be destroyed. The End.
You don't have a soul--hence, since having a soul is a fiction, it cannot be destroyed--it never was.
As Christopher Hitchens pointed out when he was alive, there is no other metaphor for soul but soul.
Quote from: Mike Cl on March 08, 2020, 11:58:04 PM
You don't have a soul--hence, since having a soul is a fiction, it cannot be destroyed--it never was.
Can't go lower than a random mix of atoms ;-)
Quote from: Gregory on March 09, 2020, 02:22:58 AM
As Christopher Hitchens pointed out when he was alive, there is no other metaphor for soul but soul.
Sole, the white fish.
Quote from: Gregory on March 09, 2020, 02:22:58 AM
As Christopher Hitchens pointed out when he was alive, there is no other metaphor for soul but soul.
Love my Hitchens....................but he was wrong. The 'soul' is a fiction, like 'our spirit' is a fiction. In most fictions, the soul is the carrier of the sacred or the spirit, going forward and forever. One can have many metaphors for 'soul' depending upon what one believes it to be.
Quote from: Baruch on March 08, 2020, 09:51:30 PM
If you aren't African-American, you have no soul, no rhythm.
And if you're not a shoe, you have no sole. So what?
Quote from: Unbeliever on March 09, 2020, 01:56:37 PM
And if you're not a shoe, you have no sole. So what?
Putting white fish fillets on the bottom of your shoe, is squishy ;-)
Can you remember anything from before you were conceived? The nothingness after death is the same as in the beginning.
Quote from: Gregory on March 10, 2020, 03:43:55 AM
Can you remember anything from before you were conceived? The nothingness after death is the same as in the beginning.
People have self-reported past-life experiences, for millennia. I have vivid dreams, some seem to be past-life content. If you accept vivid dreams or visions (vivid dreaming while awake) as some kind of evidence, then yes, I have past-lives ... but I wasn't exactly myself back then. Does that still count?
I don't accept the usual model of reincarnation. And I consider non-wake evidence as being on a different level than wake-evidence. It seems to me that personal identity is rather loosey-goosey at times, often when asleep. Rather than the idea that there is some permanent identity that acts as a thread thru all that. We become nobody-anybody when we sleep ... which could give us access to the ideal worlds of people who are not ourselves when wake.
Nothing comes from nothing.
Quote from: Gregory on March 10, 2020, 10:22:28 PM
Nothing comes from nothing.
Except for the Big Bang of materialism.
Otherwise everything comes from everything.
No one who knows what they're talking about says the big bang came from "nothing."
Quote from: Unbeliever on March 11, 2020, 01:28:24 PM
No one who knows what they're talking about says the big bang came from "nothing."
Which of the infinite multiverses are you from? ;-)
I don't exist, except in your fevered brain...
Quote from: Unbeliever on March 11, 2020, 04:36:40 PM
I don't exist, except in your fevered brain...
I knew I needed a new prescription ;-)
Quote from: Unbeliever on March 11, 2020, 01:28:24 PM
No one who knows what they're talking about says the big bang came from "nothing."
We simply don't know what came before the Big Bang. We do know what to expect from death - nothing.
Quote from: Gregory on March 11, 2020, 09:38:36 PM
We simply don't know what came before the Big Bang. We do know what to expect from death - nothing.
If conservation of mass-energy, aside from short term Heisenberg tricks, isn't a physical law, then there aren't any physical laws. The get out of jail free card for the Big Bang is ... if there is no universe, then there are no laws.
There is only as much evidence for the multiverse as there is for String Theory. Which so far says ... nada. String theorists and Inflation cosmologists (immediately post-Big Bang) and Dark Energy/Dark Matter theorists are grasping at straws, so are trying to ditch the Scientific Method to explain the failure of their current ideas. Maybe nature says ... it doesn't care if ape-men can understand this or not.
I believe in atomism. Death is the disintegration of the body and the soul.
Quote from: Gregory on March 17, 2020, 09:41:42 PM
I believe in atomism. Death is the disintegration of the body and the soul.
Some people suffer soul disintegration while still alive ;-(