Atheistforums.com

Extraordinary Claims => Religion General Discussion => Islam => Topic started by: Munch on November 07, 2019, 01:34:33 PM

Title: Islamic father slashes his 17 year old sons throat for being gay
Post by: Munch on November 07, 2019, 01:34:33 PM
The images are pretty graphic

https://ananova.news/muslim-dad-slashes-17yo-sons-throat-for-being-gay/

Summery. A 17 year old man of muslim decent woke up to find his father over him, screaming at him how he was gay, something his son did everything to keep from his family, before he slashed his throat.

This happened in Bern, Switzerland.

The fathers been arrested after his son was in an induced coma for months, but so far nothings been said if he'll stand trial.


Religion of peace everyone. 
Title: Re: Islamic father slashes his 17 year old sons throat for being gay
Post by: Draconic Aiur on November 07, 2019, 04:02:00 PM
those images...
Title: Re: Islamic father slashes his 17 year old sons throat for being gay
Post by: Baruch on November 07, 2019, 04:25:02 PM
You can take the Muslim our of the ME, but not the ME out of the Muslim.  Even without Islamic theology, gayness and premarital sex is forbidden in most traditional societies ;-(  This would have been true, in conservative parts of the US 60 years ago.
Title: Re: Islamic father slashes his 17 year old sons throat for being gay
Post by: Shiranu on November 07, 2019, 04:49:03 PM
QuoteThis would have been true, in conservative parts of the US 60 years ago.

32 states still have no laws against "gay conversion therapy", which is a recognized form of torture. Some of those states still allow, or ignore, physical punishment as a form of gay conversion.

53% of America's LGBT population lives in those states.

Forget 60 years ago, we still legalize the torture of LGBT children today in more than half the country. Our LGBT community has the highest suicide rate out of any demographic and a major identified link to that is laws that dehumanize or strip rights away from the community.


That doesn't justify or excuse his actions in even the slightest fucking way... but when it comes to the tens of thousands of LGBT members of society who we abuse ourselves, who we legalize discrimination and oppression against, who we push into suicide, we don't seem to have much interest in talking about that. Infact, bring those topics up (here in the States anyways) and even so-called liberals and progressives will often take a demeaning and dismissive view of the LGBT community.

It's only when the "other" does it that it's suddenly a big deal (and yes, what he did is a big deal).
Title: Re: Islamic father slashes his 17 year old sons throat for being gay
Post by: Baruch on November 07, 2019, 05:03:20 PM
Education?  Extermination?
Title: Re: Islamic father slashes his 17 year old sons throat for being gay
Post by: Shiranu on November 07, 2019, 05:23:59 PM
Quote from: Baruch on November 07, 2019, 05:03:20 PM
Education?  Extermination?

Don't know, tbh.

Extermination is probably the most effective, but least likely.
Title: Re: Islamic father slashes his 17 year old sons throat for being gay
Post by: Gawdzilla Sama on November 07, 2019, 05:46:36 PM
People of the Book.
Title: Re: Islamic father slashes his 17 year old sons throat for being gay
Post by: Shiranu on November 07, 2019, 06:17:22 PM
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on November 07, 2019, 05:46:36 PM
People of the Book.

Or just people. Homophobia doesn't really have any racial or cultural exclusivity.
Title: Re: Islamic father slashes his 17 year old sons throat for being gay
Post by: Gawdzilla Sama on November 07, 2019, 06:26:25 PM
Quote from: Shiranu on November 07, 2019, 06:17:22 PM
Or just people. Homophobia doesn't really have any racial or cultural exclusivity.
The father qualifies as people of the book. Book doesn't seem to help much.
Title: Re: Islamic father slashes his 17 year old sons throat for being gay
Post by: Munch on November 07, 2019, 08:29:58 PM
Quote from: Shiranu on November 07, 2019, 06:17:22 PM
Or just people. Homophobia doesn't really have any racial or cultural exclusivity.

however it seems to be far more prevalent within people who are willing to believe in make believe stories made up thousands of years ago.

You can look at parts of human history like greek culture and see the influence there, while probably no utopia itself, it was far more of a progressive culture back then compared to many other places at the time, before Christianity bulldozed its way in.

The only reason gay people today can marry, adopt, donate blood, is due to the absence of religion, more specifically, these two major religions and all their off-brand versions of them.
Title: Re: Islamic father slashes his 17 year old sons throat for being gay
Post by: Shiranu on November 07, 2019, 09:03:22 PM
QuoteYou can look at parts of human history like greek culture and see the influence there, while probably no utopia itself, it was far more of a progressive culture back then compared to many other places at the time, before Christianity bulldozed its way in.

Debatable, but not one I am really educated enough to debate in. However many modern scholars believe that pederasty was almost entirely an aristocratic pursuit that the general population disproved of, and certainly within Plato's lifetime there was a huge social shift on the tolerance of homosexuals in Athens. When he first started writing, he talked about how they perhaps had even purer love than heterosexual couples, but by the end of his life he (and many Athenian thinkers) condemned it as a deed worse than adultery.

The Ancient Greeks were probably about as far as progressive from you can get, when you compare them to cultures like the Persians and some Indian societies. And that's just on the topic of LGBT... when you get to women, slave rights, etc. ... ooooohh boy.

QuoteThe only reason gay people today can marry, adopt, donate blood, is due to the absence of religion, more specifically, these two major religions and all their off-brand versions of them.

I promise I don't do this just to argue, but this discredits the work of many religious figures who fought for gay rights. Many leading figures of the LGBT rights movement (at least here in America) were religious; Barbara Gittings was Catholic, Harvey Milk (first openly gay public official) was Jewish, the Glide Memorial Methodist Church, the ELCA (Lutheran) church, and many other were massive players in promoting tolerance and granting equal rights to the LGBT community in America.

Shit, the Lutheran church I went to (ELCA) quite literally tore itself in half over the issue, losing a large chunk of it's congregation because the leaders refused to compromise with people who believed the church shouldn't ordain gay pastors or fund pro-LGBT organizations. It cost the church a large amount of money and caused alot of controversy, but they believed gay rights were more important than compromising on that.

And I have met more than my fair share of atheists who are vocally opposed to the LGBT community.


Yes, religion is the banner that bigots hide behind... and certainly are the most well-funded banner. But religion is also one of the biggest voices in favour of LGBT rights. Discrediting the work of countless people who fought for gay rights in the name of their religion is not right.
Title: Re: Islamic father slashes his 17 year old sons throat for being gay
Post by: Munch on November 07, 2019, 09:29:16 PM
Quote from: Shiranu on November 07, 2019, 09:03:22 PM

I promise I don't do this just to argue, but this discredits the work of many religious figures who fought for gay rights. Many leading figures of the LGBT rights movement (at least here in America) were religious; Barbara Gittings was Catholic, Harvey Milk (first openly gay public official) was Jewish, the Glide Memorial Methodist Church, the ELCA (Lutheran) church, and many other were massive players in promoting tolerance and granting equal rights to the LGBT community in America.

Shit, the Lutheran church I went to (ELCA) quite literally tore itself in half over the issue, losing a large chunk of it's congregation because the leaders refused to compromise with people who believed the church shouldn't ordain gay pastors or fund pro-LGBT organizations. It cost the church a large amount of money and caused alot of controversy, but they believed gay rights were more important than compromising on that.

And I have met more than my fair share of atheists who are vocally opposed to the LGBT community.


Yes, religion is the banner that bigots hide behind... and certainly are the most well-funded banner. But religion is also one of the biggest voices in favour of LGBT rights. Discrediting the work of countless people who fought for gay rights in the name of their religion is not right.

fair points. however I would still argue those people you mentioned drove for more lgbt rights not because of their beliefs, but in them breaking some form of code of conduct separate from it. They developed their own sense of morality that wouldn't be welcome in the larger group. I won't discredit them as people, but I can assure you they didn't reach the state of support they held because of their religion, but because they were just decent human beings.
Title: Re: Islamic father slashes his 17 year old sons throat for being gay
Post by: Draconic Aiur on November 07, 2019, 10:38:24 PM
Religion can be seen as a culture., like Jewish for example.
Title: Re: Islamic father slashes his 17 year old sons throat for being gay
Post by: Shiranu on November 07, 2019, 10:59:22 PM
Quotehowever I would still argue those people you mentioned drove for more lgbt rights not because of their beliefs, but in them breaking some form of code of conduct separate from it. They developed their own sense of morality that wouldn't be welcome in the larger group.

And I would be prone to agree with you. But many of these people explicitly say they do it in the name of their faith, that they were raised in a faith that promotes tolerance and equality. In the case of the churches that were pro-LGBT rights, it means even the doctrine "experts" (for whatever such a subjective title means) believed the Bible and their faith were justifying their actions.

Where and who gets to draw the line on what someone else "really" believes?

Quote...but I can assure you they didn't reach the state of support they held because of their religion, but because they were just decent human beings.

Agreed again, but there is doctrine within their religion that cultivates being a decent human being.


(Edit: And I do realise this is getting extremely off-topic, so I don't mind completely dropping this)
Title: Re: Islamic father slashes his 17 year old sons throat for being gay
Post by: Baruch on November 08, 2019, 04:39:31 AM
The stereotype of religious people being scimitar wielding nut jobs ... is current in certain Western societies.  I suppose there are Anglos with the stereotype that the folks who murdered the Mormon family are typical Aztecs.
Title: Re: Islamic father slashes his 17 year old sons throat for being gay
Post by: Shiranu on November 08, 2019, 09:20:45 AM
Quote from: Baruch on November 08, 2019, 04:39:31 AM
The stereotype of religious people being scimitar wielding nut jobs ... is current in certain Western societies.  I suppose there are Anglos with the stereotype that the folks who murdered the Mormon family are typical Aztecs.

I appreciate so much of what the Enlightment and subsequent rational societies have given us, but the idea that we must throw the baby out with the bathwater in regards to religion, as well as the shift from ethics and guidance-based philosophy to a more "rational" (and generally useless) philosophy (which I think has many roots in the push to remove spirituality from society) has done an amazing amount of damage.

And holy mother of run on sentences...
Title: Re: Islamic father slashes his 17 year old sons throat for being gay
Post by: Gawdzilla Sama on November 08, 2019, 09:49:43 AM
I would point out that the organized style of warfare was invented in the middle eastern areas.
Title: Re: Islamic father slashes his 17 year old sons throat for being gay
Post by: Sal1981 on November 08, 2019, 10:14:34 AM
Only by religious (or otherwise political & cultural) indoctrination would this be possible. If you stop thinking and submit to bronze-age myths, is anyone really surprised that this is the result?
Title: Re: Islamic father slashes his 17 year old sons throat for being gay
Post by: Baruch on November 08, 2019, 10:29:20 AM
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on November 08, 2019, 09:49:43 AM
I would point out that the organized style of warfare was invented in the middle eastern areas.

You prove in Akkad, how many enemy have fallen, by collecting and counting their severed penises.
Title: Re: Islamic father slashes his 17 year old sons throat for being gay
Post by: Baruch on November 08, 2019, 10:31:14 AM
Quote from: Shiranu on November 08, 2019, 09:20:45 AM
I appreciate so much of what the Enlightment and subsequent rational societies have given us, but the idea that we must throw the baby out with the bathwater in regards to religion, as well as the shift from ethics and guidance-based philosophy to a more "rational" (and generally useless) philosophy (which I think has many roots in the push to remove spirituality from society) has done an amazing amount of damage.

And holy mother of run on sentences...

Enlightenment ... educated European killers.  So you agree then, that stereotypes are valid?
Title: Re: Islamic father slashes his 17 year old sons throat for being gay
Post by: Baruch on November 08, 2019, 10:35:10 AM
Quote from: Sal1981 on November 08, 2019, 10:14:34 AM
Only by religious (or otherwise political & cultural) indoctrination would this be possible. If you stop thinking and submit to bronze-age myths, is anyone really surprised that this is the result?

One of my new neighbors got arrested by the cops at gunpoint last night.  Perhaps over domestic disturbance.  Which religion shall we blame that on?  Worship of Bacchus perhaps?  Or as multiple people have posted here earlier, some people are shits some of the time?

People who's POV is mostly informed by SciFi shouldn't boast.  Borg anyone?  But I won't digress into the Labor/Democrat platform.
Title: Re: Islamic father slashes his 17 year old sons throat for being gay
Post by: Shiranu on November 08, 2019, 02:18:34 PM
Quote from: Baruch on November 08, 2019, 10:31:14 AM
Enlightenment ... educated European killers.  So you agree then, that stereotypes are valid?

I think there is, generally, a strong shred of truth to them.
Title: Re: Islamic father slashes his 17 year old sons throat for being gay
Post by: Baruch on November 08, 2019, 02:44:03 PM
Quote from: Shiranu on November 08, 2019, 02:18:34 PM
I think there is, generally, a strong shred of truth to them.

I never asked my Lakota spirit warrior neighbor, if he ever did the Sun dance.  Would think it insensitive to ask.
Title: Re: Islamic father slashes his 17 year old sons throat for being gay
Post by: Gawdzilla Sama on November 08, 2019, 03:28:21 PM
Quote from: Shiranu on November 08, 2019, 02:18:34 PM
I think there is, generally, a strong shred of truth to them.
Just lets us know what breed of killer they were.
Title: Re: Islamic father slashes his 17 year old sons throat for being gay
Post by: Sal1981 on November 08, 2019, 07:02:00 PM
Quote from: Baruch on November 08, 2019, 10:35:10 AM
One of my new neighbors got arrested by the cops at gunpoint last night.  Perhaps over domestic disturbance.  Which religion shall we blame that on?  Worship of Bacchus perhaps?  Or as multiple people have posted here earlier, some people are shits some of the time?

People who's POV is mostly informed by SciFi shouldn't boast.  Borg anyone?  But I won't digress into the Labor/Democrat platform.
Tired whataboutism. Got no better tricks up your sleeve?
Title: Re: Islamic father slashes his 17 year old sons throat for being gay
Post by: Baruch on November 09, 2019, 02:17:29 AM
Quote from: Sal1981 on November 08, 2019, 07:02:00 PM
Tired whataboutism. Got no better tricks up your sleeve?

People are 21st century barbarians, not 18th century barbarians.  But if you want to be tribal, choose your tribe, and exterminate all others.  That is the sheeple way.  That is how the Elite control you.  Or you can treat each crime as individual events to be punished individually.  Even the Poor tribe vs the Rich tribe is ... control.
Title: Re: Islamic father slashes his 17 year old sons throat for being gay
Post by: SGOS on November 10, 2019, 09:01:46 AM
Kill another human, and your honor is restored.  Before that, your honor was in the shitter because of someone else, not because you happen to be an asshole.
Title: Re: Islamic father slashes his 17 year old sons throat for being gay
Post by: Baruch on November 10, 2019, 10:37:16 AM
Real men hunt and fish ;-)  War is man hunting, the best kind.  Part of what separates most men from most women.  Today however, you don't have to be an alpha male to survive.  You can be one of these plow pushing Sumerians.  And animal husbandry, where you are friends with your prey?  What is that?  My mother circa 1930s learned ... don't be friendly with the goat, because it is tomorrow's supper.  Dogs too, if you are a chichuahua eating Mexica.  INCELS started to take over, about 5000 years ago.

Shiranu can enjoy the intellectual talk in the Parisian salons, and then enjoy witnessing the guillotining of his host at the Plac De Concorde.  Savages all.
Title: Re: Islamic father slashes his 17 year old sons throat for being gay
Post by: Draconic Aiur on November 10, 2019, 03:03:43 PM
Quote from: Shiranu on November 07, 2019, 10:59:22 PM
And I would be prone to agree with you. But many of these people explicitly say they do it in the name of their faith, that they were raised in a faith that promotes tolerance and equality. In the case of the churches that were pro-LGBT rights, it means even the doctrine "experts" (for whatever such a subjective title means) believed the Bible and their faith were justifying their actions.

Where and who gets to draw the line on what someone else "really" believes?

Agreed again, but there is doctrine within their religion that cultivates being a decent human being.


Um what? Are you high Shiranu? The only reason they tolerated other people was that they taught others they were superior. Their god is just as blood thirsty as Yaweh and are very strict about women, men, and sex. Seriously brainwashed you.
Title: Re: Islamic father slashes his 17 year old sons throat for being gay
Post by: Shiranu on November 10, 2019, 05:00:17 PM
QuoteThe only reason they tolerated other people was that they taught others they were superior.

...that's not how people who think they are superiour behave. At all. See literally all of human history for examples.

QuoteTheir god is just as blood thirsty as Yaweh and are very strict about women, men, and sex.

And they choose to ignore those parts and instead focus on the parts where their god (or more accurately, their prophet(s)) taught peace, love and respect.

Note that I never said a thing about their god, or even their doctrine. I said their faith, which is an entirely different concept.

Antitheism to the point of antirationalism is not a great look.
Title: Re: Islamic father slashes his 17 year old sons throat for being gay
Post by: Baruch on November 11, 2019, 09:27:52 AM
Superior people hire INCELS to do their killing for them.  In return for access to enemy women and spoils.  But you gotta get it straight, pillage first, then destroy.  Rape first, then kill.
Title: Re: Islamic father slashes his 17 year old sons throat for being gay
Post by: Munch on November 11, 2019, 09:29:52 PM
Quote from: Shiranu on November 10, 2019, 05:00:17 PM

Antitheism to the point of antirationalism is not a great look.

urm, haven't you been antitheist most of the time on this forum, mostly with Christians?
Title: Re: Islamic father slashes his 17 year old sons throat for being gay
Post by: Shiranu on November 11, 2019, 09:36:47 PM
Quote from: Munch on November 11, 2019, 09:29:52 PM
urm, haven't you been antitheist most of the time on this forum, mostly with Christians?

Nope.