https://www.diffen.com/difference/Communism_vs_Fascism
Any of you who vote in your country of residence should give this a read. It opens up with a comparison of communist and fascist theory, and then moves on to discussing their actual history and practice.
I post this because I think a lot of people these days don't recognize fascism when they see it, and conversely see communism where none exists. Plus, in this politically-charged climate we now live in, I don't think it hurts to have a refresher on what real extremism looks like, thus allowing us to approach lesser so-called extremists more calmly.
Sorry, political theory, of any kind, is propaganda territory. Semantic war. So no, I don't recognize, except to abuse it myself, anyone's buzz words. And I assume all others are doing likewise. Like trying to define racism (a term invented by Leon Trotsky).
Basically the point is .. if fascism is bad, that is what your opponents are doing. Same thing for communism. What is meaningful are the specifics. Open borders or closed borders or controlled borders for example. Doesn't really how those are grouped under smoke and mirror labels.
A lot of spelling and grammar errors in that article. And a dead YT link.
I like the site (and have marked it) as a reference. At the very least, it is a great place to start. Thanks for the reference.
I don't personally consider that there is a lot of difference between Nazis and Communists. Both meet the definition of extreme socialism regarding national control over means of production. If Hitler had somehow come to be in control of Russia and Stalin had been in control of Germany, would there have been much difference?
Quote from: Cavebear on August 31, 2019, 01:14:58 AM
I don't personally consider that there is a lot of difference between Nazis and Communists. Both meet the definition of extreme socialism regarding national control over means of production. If Hitler had somehow come to be in control of Russia and Stalin had been in control of Germany, would there have been much difference?
Agreed. This is echoes from early 20th century on virtue signaling between Hitler and Stalin. I am not Hitler - Stalin. I am not Stalin - Hitler. Both were evil dictators who killed millions. Yes, for some people, Krupp control of the economy is better than Commissar control of the economy. But not by much.
Quote from: Cavebear on August 31, 2019, 01:14:58 AM
I don't personally consider that there is a lot of difference between Nazis and Communists. Both meet the definition of extreme socialism regarding national control over means of production. If Hitler had somehow come to be in control of Russia and Stalin had been in control of Germany, would there have been much difference?
I do see a difference. And a sharp one when each is defined. Where the blurring comes in is with the sole leaders (dictator) who takes control. Stalin and Hitler both put their own stamp upon their dictatorships; neither cared what they were labeled as long as they were obeyed. Each leader cared little for what their ruling style was called so they used what worked for them at any one time. Both were evil men who did evil things.
I have not seen a 'perfect' communist state, fascist state, socialist state, democratic state or any other singular ideological state. They are all blends of different thoughts and ideals run through the blender of 'making it work'.
Quote from: Mike Cl on August 31, 2019, 10:33:00 AM
I do see a difference. And a sharp one when each is defined. Where the blurring comes in is with the sole leaders (dictator) who takes control. Stalin and Hitler both put their own stamp upon their dictatorships; neither cared what they were labeled as long as they were obeyed. Each leader cared little for what their ruling style was called so they used what worked for them at any one time. Both were evil men who did evil things.
I have not seen a 'perfect' communist state, fascist state, socialist state, democratic state or any other singular ideological state. They are all blends of different thoughts and ideals run through the blender of 'making it work'.
You said "I do see a difference". What difference?
It is debatable if any dictator ever believes in any ideology at all. Since they all support "The ends justify the means".
Quote from: Baruch on August 31, 2019, 04:23:58 PM
It is debatable if any dictator ever believes in any ideology at all. Since they all support "The ends justify the means".
MF'ing this.
Dictators don't care about ideology, they care about power. In a perverted sense, it's what ideological landscape they're in that they can pragmatically take advantage of, that matters to them to attain power. Hitler was democratically elected, while Lenin took advantage of an ideological landscape of "workers unite" fanfare.
Quote from: Cavebear on August 31, 2019, 11:00:00 AM
You said "I do see a difference". What difference?
Read the two columns of the site. Communism is all for one, one for all. Fascism is control from the top down, corporation-ism is at the fore, with the dictator controlling all corps.
The blurring happens when a 'leader' gathers enough power to become a dictator and his will then become 'law' and ideology goes out the window.
Quote from: Baruch on August 31, 2019, 04:23:58 PM
It is debatable if any dictator ever believes in any ideology at all. Since they all support "The ends justify the means".
Have you read 'Foundation And Empire'? An Empire diplomat said he believed in "so little that it was easy to believe in nothing" or something like that. When the Foundation sentacists evaluated all his statements over 3 days, he actually said "nothing". Those are the kind of people I consider useless. The purpose of communication is to transmit information.
Quote from: Cavebear on August 31, 2019, 06:28:49 PM
Have you read 'Foundation And Empire'? An Empire diplomat said he believed in "so little that it was easy to believe in nothing" or something like that. When the Foundation sentacists evaluated all his statements over 3 days, he actually said "nothing". Those are the kind of people I consider useless. The purpose of communication is to transmit information.
No, the purpose of language is to conquer the galaxy for the Mule.
Communism is not the Four Musketeers. Bollocks. They are monarchists.
Communism is abolition of private property, a single political party that is all powerful, and often a cult of personality at the top.
“A Socialist is one who serves the common good without giving up his individuality or personality or the product of his personal efficiency. Our adopted term ‘Socialist’ has nothing to do with Marxian Socialism. Marxism is anti-property; true socialism is not. Marxism places no value on the individual, or individual effort, or efficiency; true Socialism values the individual and encourages him in individual efficiency, at the same time holding that his interests as an individual must be in consonance with those of the community. All great inventions, discoveries, achievements were first the product of an individual brain. It is charged against me that I am against property, that I am an atheist. Both charges are false.†- Adolf Hitler Dec 28.1938
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Doctrine_of_Fascism or Gentile + Mussolini
No True Fascism?
The Trotsky view of fascism ...
https://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/1934/xx/hitler.htm
May be we need contemporary articles comparing communism and fascism in the very era they were invented.
Quote from: drunkenshoe on September 02, 2019, 02:45:19 PM
May be we need contemporary articles comparing communism and fascism in the very era they were invented.
People born 50 years after 1920s are qualified? Classic communism/fascism are moot. They don't exist anymore. If they ever did (propaganda).
Contemporary = Current political parties wanting to fight each other. Calling each other names. But as I pointed out before, the labels are meaningless to me.
Do you support open, controlled or closed borders (for example). I don't care what rationalization one clothes that in.
Quote from: Baruch on September 01, 2019, 08:05:35 AM
No, the purpose of language is to conquer the galaxy for the Mule.
Communism is not the Four Musketeers. Bollocks. They are monarchists.
Communism is abolition of private property, a single political party that is all powerful, and often a cult of personality at the top.
And that's why I'm not a communist.
And BTW, The Mule didn't use language to conquer the Empire (not Galaxy), he used his mental powers to create depression and despair (enhanced with some instrument). His name "The Mule" referred to his sterility and inability to create a dynasty. When he died Seldon's Phychohistory continued as if if he (The Mule) had never existed.
Sanhedrin 57a . When a Jew murders a gentile ("Cuthean"), there will be no death penalty. What a Jew steals from a gentile he may keep.
Communism is when a minority (Party members, "professional revolutionaries", Jews) tries to impose a Talmudic discipline on the majority (Czarists, Russian and Chinese serfs).
Fascism is when the majority (Ethnic Germans and Italians) does this but to the minority (Jews, homosexuals, Gypsies, etc.)
It's the same bullshit, but in different directions.
@morgan_hilarious ... not funny, won't dignify this flavor of psychopathy with a real response. I prefer my own flavor, thank you.
Not trying to be funny.
All politics begins as theology.
The DNC is the political version of Vatican 2, they infiltrate a large institution with an illustrious history (US Government, American and European academia, the Catholic Church) and a defined morality and body of literature, hollow it out spiritually and culturally (The Second Vatican Council, the Civil Strife/Rights movement and 1960s big government leftism), then steal everything they can as the superstructure collapses around them.
The RNC is the political form of Southern televangelism. All money-hungry grifters who competently profess sincere belief in popular morality while tortuously interpreting foundational texts like the Bible or the Constitution for their own purposes outside the purview of traditional and legal institutional controls.
The Sanhedrin quote is directly lifted from the Babylonian Talmud with some abridgment, but with the meaning intact. It is not contained in newer translations like the Schottenstein Talmud, probably out of accommodation for liberal diaspora sensibilities and a general fear of antagonizing the goyim.
Leftism always has a cabalistic bent. Why is it that the French Revolution up until Napoleon was prosecuted almost entirely under the leadership of secretive Lodges like the Jacobin club? Always an insular group, a state within a state, a kahal or soviet, which sees the rest of the people as cattle/goyim to be corralled and plundered.
Note that all popular political ideologies are built on theological innovations that even atheists would deem "heretical."
Quote from: morgan_hilarious on September 16, 2019, 03:21:37 PMNote that all popular political ideologies are built on theological innovations that even atheists would deem "heretical."
???
I must've been sick that day in social studies...
Quote from: Hydra009 on September 16, 2019, 05:28:05 PM
???
I must've been sick that day in social studies...
The DNC is modeled on the hollowing out of Catholicism. The RNC is built on a formless, commercialized breed of Christianity. The Talmud has some wisdom but has a huge numbers of passages dedicated to justifying deception and cruelty towards the goyim. So yeah, heretical.
(https://media1.tenor.com/images/8291c2aab0e823b6810afa47d5a83b84/tenor.gif)
@morgan_hilarious Apparently one of the shape shifting reptilian aliens have escaped from Roswell.
Quote from: morgan_hilarious on September 16, 2019, 03:21:37 PM
All politics begins as theology.
The DNC is the political version of Vatican 2, they infiltrate a large institution with an illustrious history (US Government, American and European academia, the Catholic Church) and a defined morality and body of literature, hollow it out spiritually and culturally (The Second Vatican Council, the Civil Strife/Rights movement and 1960s big government leftism), then steal everything they can as the superstructure collapses around them.
The RNC is the political form of Southern televangelism. All money-hungry grifters who competently profess sincere belief in popular morality while tortuously interpreting foundational texts like the Bible or the Constitution for their own purposes outside the purview of traditional and legal institutional controls.
The Sanhedrin quote is directly lifted from the Babylonian Talmud with some abridgment, but with the meaning intact. It is not contained in newer translations like the Schottenstein Talmud, probably out of accommodation for liberal diaspora sensibilities and a general fear of antagonizing the goyim.
Leftism always has a cabalistic bent. Why is it that the French Revolution up until Napoleon was prosecuted almost entirely under the leadership of secretive Lodges like the Jacobin club? Always an insular group, a state within a state, a kahal or soviet, which sees the rest of the people as cattle/goyim to be corralled and plundered.
Note that all popular political ideologies are built on theological innovations that even atheists would deem "heretical."
Well....this is a whole new kind of whack-a-doo.
Politics is downstream from a lot of things, including religion. Lots of sound and fury in the news surrounding elections and civil wars, but all that hubbub is built on demographics, popular morality, choices in media consumption, and lifelong habits.
Baruch finally has competition in the "ridiculously moronic posts" category...
Quote from: PickelledEggs on September 18, 2019, 06:08:41 PM
Baruch finally has competition in the "ridiculously moronic posts" category...
Yep, call me a anti-Semite ;-)
Quote from: Baruch on September 19, 2019, 04:20:12 AM
Yep, call me a anti-Semite ;-)
I didn't fucking say that and don't imply that I did.
Get over yourself.