https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcM4rdGWZKA
Dave Cullen, a former atheist, rediscovers faith (Christianity). He has the Computing Forever channel which mainly does political and social commentary.
He uses "values of the family" and 'transcendental' values as reasons to subscribe to Christianity.
He uses emotional argumentations, basically, for believing - same as others before him who have used stuff like beauty of nature or equivocating God with love.
Best "arguments" he gives is basically a teleological argument, for a creator.
Quote from: Sal1981 on June 06, 2019, 04:28:27 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcM4rdGWZKA
Dave Cullen, a former atheist, rediscovers faith (Christianity). He has the Computing Forever channel which mainly does political and social commentary.
He uses "values of the family" and 'transcendental' values as reasons to subscribe to Christianity.
He uses emotional argumentations, basically, for believing - same as others before him who have used stuff like beauty of nature or equivocating God with love.
Best "arguments" he gives is basically a teleological argument, for a creator.
Some people just can't be helped. Never heard of him before though.
Don't discount ethnicity (He's Celtic). He is less likely to choose Buddhism, since he is a ginger White male ;-) His story is pretty conventional shamanism. You start out normal (pre-teen), then you go thru a mental health crisis (teen), which if you survive it, you have a catharsis experience which leads to a transcendental condition that is orthogonal to your prior immanent condition.
Athiests are usually obsessed with epistemology, if they think of philosophy at all. Usually disappointed former Christians, they would never react in an emotional way, being part Vulcan like Spock. (sarc).
I went thru an atheist phase, about a decade long. Initial catharsis at 18. It happens. I was led to a more mature theism. More recent samadhi at 56.
Teleology of course is Aristotelian, it isn't scientific. But it does contribute to narrative.
Quote from: Baruch on June 06, 2019, 06:10:55 AM
Don't discount ethnicity. He is less likely to choose Buddhism, since he is a ginger White male ;-)
Athiests are usually obsessed with epistemology, if they think of philosophy at all. Usually disappointed former Christians, they would never react in an emotional way, being part Vulcan like Spock.
I went thru an atheist phase, about a decade long. It happens.
Teleology of course is Aristotelian, it isn't scientific.
When it comes to philosophical terms, I will never be your equal. Mostly because I consider the details boring and it feels like homework. On the other, hand, I did examine "epistemology". And laughed. Its a great example of how philosophers create jobs for themselves creating terminology as special language.
I'm more practical. There is reality and there is not. There is physical existence and there is not. There is life and then there is not. That does not bother me in the least. Smiling...
My last post heavily edited. And your life story is unusual.
I was subscribed to him. He made some okay videos and his political stance had some good points to it on the bullshit of social ideology and Marxist tendencies in the west. He also had some okay tech review videos here and there which he slowed up on making since he moved into politics.
However the moment I watched this video I unsubbed from him. Sad, you can't talk constantly about social indoctrination movements in the west to just come right back and become religiously indoctrinated again.
It goes much in line with a video by another youtuber I posted recently, black pigeon speaks, who talked about how people are hard wired for some form of spirituality, some form of group think. You could argue its the group think we see chimps having a troop, and people in that same primitive fashion look for groups to become part of a troop of their own.
I consider myself fortunate to being an introvert and so not feeling the need to be being part of a group.
most likely this dave cullen couldn't find any kind of group think in the system he was in, a conservative thinking atheist would find it harder to be part of something, since it seems atheist groups are more leaning to the left these days (given how religious are more towards the right with religion and conservative values tying together). So when your faced with what you believe or don't believe not having people you share commonality with, your mind draws you elsewhere.
I feel sorry for him more then anything.
Was reading though the comment section of the video. honestly is unsettling, a flood of religious people subbing to him now with 'god bless' messages, these people probably didn't have a good word to say about the guy until this moment.
Once one's horizon broadens,
There is no way back, this is one way road.
Mind cannot turn its former dimensions...
Quote from: Munch on June 06, 2019, 11:40:07 AM
I was subscribed to him. He made some okay videos and his political stance had some good points to it on the bullshit of social ideology and Marxist tendencies in the west. He also had some okay tech review videos here and there which he slowed up on making since he moved into politics.
However the moment I watched this video I unsubbed from him. Sad, you can't talk constantly about social indoctrination movements in the west to just come right back and become religiously indoctrinated again.
It goes much in line with a video by another youtuber I posted recently, black pigeon speaks, who talked about how people are hard wired for some form of spirituality, some form of group think. You could argue its the group think we see chimps having a troop, and people in that same primitive fashion look for groups to become part of a troop of their own.
I consider myself fortunate to being an introvert and so not feeling the need to be being part of a group.
most likely this dave cullen couldn't find any kind of group think in the system he was in, a conservative thinking atheist would find it harder to be part of something, since it seems atheist groups are more leaning to the left these days (given how religious are more towards the right with religion and conservative values tying together). So when your faced with what you believe or don't believe not having people you share commonality with, your mind draws you elsewhere.
I feel sorry for him more then anything.
Well hopefully he won't become a homophobic Islamophobic Tory, right? (sarc). He knew, in Britain (land of Karl Marx refugees) that this post could be controversial. So brave on him, but I don't think it is necessary, in general, to put one's religion out there at all. Now you can see why pr126 quoted him so much.
He isn't the best tech culture guy around. Do you like Tim Poole?
Quote from: Sal1981 on June 06, 2019, 04:28:27 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcM4rdGWZKA
Dave Cullen, a former atheist, rediscovers faith (Christianity). He has the Computing Forever channel which mainly does political and social commentary.
He uses "values of the family" and 'transcendental' values as reasons to subscribe to Christianity.
He uses emotional argumentations, basically, for believing - same as others before him who have used stuff like beauty of nature or equivocating God with love.
Best "arguments" he gives is basically a teleological argument, for a creator.
Christian "family values:"
1. Women are the property of their fathers until they are bought by a man who intends to become her husband.
2. Wives have no say, as they are under their man's authority just as he is under God's authority.
3. Beat your kids with a rod. If you don't, you're a bad parent. (Ignore the science that says otherwise.)
4. If beating your kids isn't enough, and they continue to disobey you, stone them to death.
5. If the man of the house dies, and his widow doesn't have kids yet, the woman now belongs to her late husband's brother.
6. If a married woman is caught having sex with another man, stone them both to death.
7. It's okay if men go out and sleep with a prostitute. That's different. It's not cheating if you're a man.
8. However, if a man sleeps with an unmarried woman (whether or not she is a willing participant) and is caught, he must pay the woman's father so he may take her as a wife. Because, again, the woman is her father's property, and if you break it, you buy it.
9. Wives can't say no to their husbands, meaning there is no such thing as marital rape. Why? I think you get it by now. It's because...she is her husband's property.
10. Men can divorce their wives for any reason, and neither are supposed to marry again. Except men are allowed multiple wives anyway, so nobody really cares. But the divorced woman is a spoiled product, so she ain't finding anyone willing to take her.
How wholesome. If only the world still believed in Christian family values.
Human values ...
I can steal whatever I want
I can rape whomever I want
I can murder whomever I want
Politics and religion will provide rationalizations for the above ape behavior.
BTW - you were quoting Jewish values. Here is the most important one ... the only good Gentile is a dead Gentile ;-)
Quote from: Baruch on June 06, 2019, 12:06:55 PM
Human values ...
I can steal whatever I want
I can rape whomever I want
I can murder whomever I want
Politics and religion will provide rationalizations for the above ape behavior.
BTW - you were quoting Jewish values. Here is the most important one ... the only good Gentile is a dead Gentile ;-)
You never tire of spouting your shit do you? I know, you call it snark, or being cynical--yet I think this is exactly how you believe. You are about the most pessimistic person I've ever come across. Your list is not 'values', but actions. Well, unless you are a theist, then whatever it is you do is a value and not an action and you are free to call anything part of your 'moral view'. I'm not aware of any society that has added rape and murder to their list of 'values'. Sparta had a thing for stealing--not aware of another society that did. You and Arik are a perfect pair--blather on theist, blather on..............................
Quote from: Munch on June 06, 2019, 11:40:07 AM
I was subscribed to him. He made some okay videos and his political stance had some good points to it on the bullshit of social ideology and Marxist tendencies in the west. He also had some okay tech review videos here and there which he slowed up on making since he moved into politics.
However the moment I watched this video I unsubbed from him. Sad, you can't talk constantly about social indoctrination movements in the west to just come right back and become religiously indoctrinated again.
It goes much in line with a video by another youtuber I posted recently, black pigeon speaks, who talked about how people are hard wired for some form of spirituality, some form of group think. You could argue its the group think we see chimps having a troop, and people in that same primitive fashion look for groups to become part of a troop of their own.
I consider myself fortunate to being an introvert and so not feeling the need to be being part of a group.
most likely this dave cullen couldn't find any kind of group think in the system he was in, a conservative thinking atheist would find it harder to be part of something, since it seems atheist groups are more leaning to the left these days (given how religious are more towards the right with religion and conservative values tying together). So when your faced with what you believe or don't believe not having people you share commonality with, your mind draws you elsewhere.
I feel sorry for him more then anything.
There's a reason the religious tend to gravitate to the Right. They both play by the same rules. Ignore science, accept pseudoscience when it sounds good to you, hate people who are different from you, resist social change, protect the rights of the bully on the grounds of "free speech," label attempts to protect the victim as the "Left wing agenda." Being a right wing atheist is only one step away from being a Christian, which is why they constantly stand up for such bullshit as "traditional Christian values."
Quote from: Munch on June 06, 2019, 11:47:35 AM
Was reading though the comment section of the video. honestly is unsettling, a flood of religious people subbing to him now with 'god bless' messages, these people probably didn't have a good word to say about the guy until this moment.
Yeah, I was curious to see what people were saying, so I looked too. Given what his content was like, however, I'm willing to bet most of these people were already subscribed to him. He was saying the things they liked hearing. Do you know how much Christians love to point at outsiders and say, "See, even they agree with us?" They do it when a black man speaks out against Black Lives Matters or affirmative action. They do it when idiots like Jordan Peterson tells them their anti-LGBT propaganda is scientifically proven. This guy went from being a Christian sympathizer to being a Christian. The Christians think they "won him over," when he was already theirs.
Quote from: Baruch on June 06, 2019, 11:59:11 AM
He isn't the best tech culture guy around. Do you like Tim Poole?
I've looked at a couple of his videos. never really subscribed to him.
Blackleaf, you made a great observation about christians and their love of authority. Take note of the language the bible uses--king, lord, prince, ruler, kingdom, authority--all terms used for monarchy. They cannot make a move or think a thought unless their king (Jesus--God) allows them to. That authority (all of it) rests with the King and all those that he grants authority to. Hence, divine right of kings--and christians and conservatives just love that concept. That's why Trump is heralded by the christian and conservative alike; he would not be the president unless god willed it so and therefore whatever Trump does or does not do comes from the authority of god. I think of the terms liberal and conservative as used in the French Revolution; liberal--wanted to do away with the divine right of kings; conservative--wanted to conserve that concept. And that is how I see it still today. Liberals want liberty and liberty to chose what is best for society. Conservatives want to conserve all that was, mainly the divine right of kings like authority upon leaders, especially christian ones.
Quote from: Blackleaf on June 06, 2019, 12:23:39 PM
There's a reason the religious tend to gravitate to the Right. They both play by the same rules. Ignore science, accept pseudoscience when it sounds good to you, hate people who are different from you, resist social change, protect the rights of the bully on the grounds of "free speech," label attempts to protect the victim as the "Left wing agenda." Being a right wing atheist is only one step away from being a Christian, which is why they constantly stand up for such bullshit as "traditional Christian values."
For the ease of this I'll refer to the right as being of conservative, and saying religious are more drawn to conservative values. Thing is, conservative values are not systematically bad, it has positive values like raising a family, having a home and job, living by traditional means, all are good aspects for people to follow. My mother is a conservative, but she's never prayed to any god or has ever shown signs of racism or homophobia, same with a lot of the older generation in my family. Religious people are drawn to the older ways of doing things since the older ways are more akin to upholding religious beliefs, so the two come together more so.
But lets also be honest just from and understanding of humanity itself, by the same argument you made, the left could be just as labeled the same way, just the other side of the coin. Modern hard left aren't racist to minorities, but they can be to whites. Their not sexist to LGBT people, but are to heterosexuals. There 'progressive' to peoples nationality outside their own country, but slam people for having the same national identity within their own country. Its two different sides of the same coin.
Atheism just falls in line with more liberal views because of the tie religious views has to conservatism. In my case it was my sexuality that made me realize why I didn't want to follow in line with any religion, atheism came later. I just now happen to uphold both liberal and conservative values.
I'll also add, finding the bad in conservatism is easy because that writings been on the walls for a long time. Seeing the worst side of the left is a newer thing but you just end up seeing its the same thing either side of the spectrum, people are people, they take shit to far and damage any ideal they have as a result. And in such cases the worst outcome is when people like this take those corrupt values and push them into everyone elses lives.
QuoteYeah, I was curious to see what people were saying, so I looked too. Given what his content was like, however, I'm willing to bet most of these people were already subscribed to him. He was saying the things they liked hearing. Do you know how much Christians love to point at outsiders and say, "See, even they agree with us?" They do it when a black man speaks out against Black Lives Matters or affirmative action. They do it when idiots like Jordan Peterson tells them their anti-LGBT propaganda is scientifically proven. This guy went from being a Christian sympathizer to being a Christian. The Christians think they "won him over," when he was already theirs.
I looked back though some of his videos and didn't really get a vibe of his comment section having any strong christian views, but then his videos were based on political and tech stuff so maybe they had little reason to speak out about it.
Jesus is said (by himself, in the NT) to have come to destroy families, to make the members of a man's household his enemies, and to be his disciple you must hate everyone in your family. But then, he said to love your enemies, so I guess you're supposed to love your family even though hate them.
Apparently, like so many other Christians, this guy hasn't actually read the Bible.
Quote from: Luke 14:26
If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
Quote from: Matthew 10:34-37
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
Quote from: Unbeliever on June 06, 2019, 01:27:07 PM
Jesus is said (by himself, in the NT) to have come to destroy families, to make the members of a man's household his enemies, and to be his disciple you must hate everyone in your family. But then, he said to love your enemies, so I guess you're supposed to love your family even though hate them.
Apparently, like so many other Christians, this guy hasn't actually read the Bible.
Yes, I doubt he has read the Bible. For most Christians, it is Church that is relevant, not the Bible.
Quote from: Mike Cl on June 06, 2019, 12:18:53 PM
You never tire of spouting your shit do you? I know, you call it snark, or being cynical--yet I think this is exactly how you believe. You are about the most pessimistic person I've ever come across. Your list is not 'values', but actions. Well, unless you are a theist, then whatever it is you do is a value and not an action and you are free to call anything part of your 'moral view'. I'm not aware of any society that has added rape and murder to their list of 'values'. Sparta had a thing for stealing--not aware of another society that did. You and Arik are a perfect pair--blather on theist, blather on..............................
Prove me wrong? You can't. Your theory of morality is BS ... same as any other ape man. No, Arik and I aren't the same guy. Now it is a free criminal environment ... the government being the chief organized crime syndicate. So you are free to be an atheist etc. The war of every human against every other human ... aka ethics.
No, this isn't Sparta. This is Corleone Sicily.
Quote from: Munch on June 06, 2019, 12:46:21 PM
I've looked at a couple of his videos. never really subscribed to him.
I have no subscriptions. I retain my independence. Youtube going the way of Myspace.
Always funny, Christians (no one currently posting) and atheists arguing over the minutae of scripture. But that is what you get from atheists who are ex-Christian Bible thumpers (as opposed to Church Christians who don't take the Bible seriously).
How can Christians not take the Bible seriously if they believe it to be "The Holy Word of God"?
Quote from: Unbeliever on June 06, 2019, 03:34:05 PM
How can Christians not take the Bible seriously if they believe it to be "The Holy Word of God"?
They lie. As any atheist can tell you.
Quote from: Munch on June 06, 2019, 01:16:53 PM
But lets also be honest just from and understanding of humanity itself, by the same argument you made, the left could be just as labeled the same way, just the other side of the coin. Modern hard left aren't racist to minorities, but they can be to whites. Their not sexist to LGBT people, but are to heterosexuals. There 'progressive' to peoples nationality outside their own country, but slam people for having the same national identity within their own country. Its two different sides of the same coin.
Wow, way to broad-brush and strawman there. I defy you to find one single solitary post anywhere on this forum going back as far as you wish where I denigrate straight people or white people. And you better believe I identify as being on the Left.
This is just bullshit, and nothing but.
Quote from: Baruch on June 06, 2019, 03:19:17 PM
I have no subscriptions. I retain my independence. Youtube going the way of Myspace.
Certainly seems like YouTube is losing traction. Yet alternative video sites are not growing, Bitchute comes to mind, that are not as censorious as YouTube; I wonder why that is. YouTube has been on a steady decline since 2012 according to Google's own Trends tracker.
The latest in bouts of censorship from YouTube, the #VoxAdpolcalypse, has kicked the pebble down the road some more and Bitchute (and others, most likely) have yet to see growth. This ties into with the alternatives to Twitter and Facebook, Gab and Minds, which are also staying around the same for trends. You'd think that people go
somewhere else when they're denied service on the main 3 websites, but it doesn't look like that.
The divisions now from those 3 alternatives is that they're mainly for right-leaning people, both ideologically and politically. They're still small, compared to the 3 mainstream websites, but I have a feeling that is gonna slowly change, unless YouTube, Facebook and Twitter don't backpedal, since they're alienating right-leaning people off of their platforms.
Quote from: trdsf on June 06, 2019, 06:41:44 PM
Wow, way to broad-brush and strawman there. I defy you to find one single solitary post anywhere on this forum going back as far as you wish where I denigrate straight people or white people. And you better believe I identify as being on the Left.
This is just bullshit, and nothing but.
so wait, am I making a broad statement or making an individual statement, you seem a little conflicted on that.
how did you even manage to interpret that as being aimed at you?
Quote from: Baruch on June 06, 2019, 12:06:55 PM
Human values ...
I can steal whatever I want
I can rape whomever I want
I can murder whomever I want
Politics and religion will provide rationalizations for the above ape behavior.
BTW - you were quoting Jewish values. Here is the most important one ... the only good Gentile is a dead Gentile ;-)
Actually you just posted Jewish values...thats why your G-d had to make rules for your ancestors...they were human trash. Most humans, as you well know, don't have those values but you do like to pinch your own butt once in a while.
Quote from: Munch on June 06, 2019, 07:03:53 PM
so wait, am I making a broad statement or making an individual statement, you seem a little conflicted on that.
how did you even manage to interpret that as being aimed at you?
Well, you have a tendency to make broad statements about leftists that leftists know aren't remotely based in reality. If we hated heteroes (self-hate?) and native-born Americans simply because they're native-born, you'd be able to point to us doing just that. You can't, for obvious reasons.
In the meantime, we have stuff like this (https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/06/alabama-mayor-facebook-post-killing-lgbtq-community.html).
This false equivocation thing is your only card to play, but it's never enough to win even a single match: you have an exceptionally bad hand and you're pretending like you've got a royal flush.
Quote from: Hydra009 on June 06, 2019, 08:55:45 PM
Well, you have a tendency to make broad statements about leftists that leftists know aren't remotely based in reality. If we hated heteroes (self-hate?) and native-born Americans simply because they're native-born, you'd be able to point to us doing just that. You can't, for obvious reasons.
if I did that I would be making a broad statement. However I'm not here. Also aren't you just generalizing all leftists?
Quote from: Baruch on June 06, 2019, 03:18:12 PM
Prove me wrong? You can't. Your theory of morality is BS ... same as any other ape man. No, Arik and I aren't the same guy. Now it is a free criminal environment ... the government being the chief organized crime syndicate. So you are free to be an atheist etc. The war of every human against every other human ... aka ethics.
No, this isn't Sparta. This is Corleone Sicily.
You just proved my statement--full of shit and pessimistic.
Quote from: Munch on June 06, 2019, 08:59:46 PM
if I did that I would be making a broad statement. However I'm not here. Also aren't you just generalizing all leftists?
Perhaps I'm just grossly ignorant of the extensive liberal anti-hetero grassroots hate campaigns. You tell me. You follow the real straight-talking geniuses like the one in the OP. Those guys seem really logical and grounded, don't they?
Quote from: Mike Cl on June 06, 2019, 09:04:21 PM
You just proved my statement--full of shit and pessimistic.
Several on here are pessimistic
Quote from: Hydra009 on June 06, 2019, 09:08:55 PM
Perhaps I'm just grossly ignorant of the extensive liberal anti-hetero grassroots hate campaigns. You tell me. You follow the real straight-talking geniuses like the one in the OP. Those guys seem really logical and grounded, don't they?
there just entertaining to listen to. Social media today is flooded with so much hate on for right wing politics, even main stream media is, so its good to see it balanced out with someone ripping into leftist beliefs. The point is lost when the guy happens to follow an ideology while criticizing others ideologies, but luckily theirs plenty others who haven't fallen down that rabbit hole.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVruEq-Gupk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGI0xpGUjSk
Quote from: Munch on June 06, 2019, 08:59:46 PM
if I did that I would be making a broad statement. However I'm not here. Also aren't you just generalizing all leftists?
Munch, you do seem to like to make broad statements about 'leftists'. I am a liberal, not a leftist. I am not really sure what a 'leftist' actually is. As a liberal I have lived strong family values. It is foundational to a caring society. But I do not insist that family must be only a mommy and daddy and biological children. I think family can be any group of people who have a strong tie with each other, care for one another, and want to have that type of bond. A family can have a single parent--two mommies--two daddies--and the children can consist of any children that need nurturing. Race and ethnicity have no bearing on the makeup of a family. I am a liberal, and what I find personally interesting is that the older I become, the more liberal I become. I see liberal as actually not only 'liberal' values but positive 'conservative' values, as well.
Quote from: Munch on June 06, 2019, 09:10:01 PM
Several on here are pessimistic
And......................????
Quote from: Mike Cl on June 06, 2019, 09:15:05 PM
Munch, you do seem to like to make broad statements about 'leftists'. I am a liberal, not a leftist. I am not really sure what a 'leftist' actually is. As a liberal I have lived strong family values. It is foundational to a caring society. But I do not insist that family must be only a mommy and daddy and biological children. I think family can be any group of people who have a strong tie with each other, care for one another, and want to have that type of bond. A family can have a single parent--two mommies--two daddies--and the children can consist of any children that need nurturing. Race and ethnicity have no bearing on the makeup of a family. I am a liberal, and what I find personally interesting is that the older I become, the more liberal I become. I see liberal as actually not only 'liberal' values but positive 'conservative' values, as well.
I believe that too. Infact as someone in a relationship with two men who once they are done with uni I intend to live with, it be hypocritical to say otherwise.
The older I become, the less I am leaning towards one social or political group, therefore things spill over into other aspects.
Quote from: Mike Cl on June 06, 2019, 09:16:12 PM
And......................????
didn't seem prudent to call Baruch out on that when several here are the same.
Quote from: Munch on June 06, 2019, 09:13:46 PM
there just entertaining to listen to.
That's
almost true. You do get a lot of entertainment out of it, that's true. But you also come here with suspiciously similar talking points: that computing forever guy has a freakout about some alleged feminist conspiracy in some movie or another and you come here with almost verbatim stuff. You aren't just "entertained" by this BS, you fall for it hook line and sinker and spread it around. You're not as rabid as PR, but that's about the only difference.
QuoteSocial media today is flooded with so much hate on for right wing politics, even main stream media is, so its good to see it balanced out with someone ripping into leftist beliefs.
False balance, false equivalence.
QuoteThe point is lost when the guy happens to follow an ideology while criticizing others ideologies, but luckily theirs plenty others who haven't fallen down that rabbit hole.
I'm so glad the downfall of this intellectual titan didn't ruin the whole brain trust on your sub list.
Quotehttps://www.prtube.com/watch?v=oVruEq-Gupk
And goodie, a PR-esque attack piece. I missed those so much.
Quote from: Munch on June 06, 2019, 09:25:01 PM
didn't seem prudent to call Baruch out on that when several here are the same.
I would agree with that---except that Baruch is almost always pessimistic and about everything. He is a fantastic resource when it comes to facts; especially early religious facts. But his usual comment on anything else is always a put-down, pessimistic view of it. It seems to me he must live in a constant state of depression. Too bad..................
Quote from: Hydra009 on June 06, 2019, 09:26:23 PM
That's almost true. You do get a lot of entertainment out of it, that's true. But you also come here with suspiciously similar talking points: that computing forever guy has a freakout about some alleged feminist conspiracy in some movie or another and you come here with almost verbatim stuff. You aren't just "entertained" by this BS, you fall for it hook line and sinker and spread it around. You're not as rabid as PR, but that's about the only difference.
False balance.
I'm so glad the downfall of this intellectual titan didn't ruin the whole brain trust on your sub list.
And goodie, a PR-esque attack piece. I missed those so much.
1 - If I happen to share views on modern day feminism thats been infested and corrupted by social justice, and I so happen to see someone who's talking about it, i'm inclined to show its not just me thinking it.
2 - not really, not to a centrist viewing both sides the same way.
3 - You'd be surprised to know I have some liberal minded people on my sub list too.
4 - dunno what that link is but I aren't clicking it without description.
Quote from: Mike Cl on June 06, 2019, 09:30:13 PM
I would agree with that---except that Baruch is almost always pessimistic and about everything. He is a fantastic resource when it comes to facts; especially early religious facts. But his usual comment on anything else is always a put-down, pessimistic view of it. It seems to me he must live in a constant state of depression. Too bad..................
put it this way, he is the only theistic guy on a forum full of atheists. Yet he still braves it on here every day and finds other things to talk about. Thats more then worth some merit.
Quote from: Munch on June 06, 2019, 09:35:00 PM
2 - not really, not to a centrist viewing both sides the same way.
You're doing "centrism" wrong. Saying that holocaust deniers and non-holocaust deniers are equally nuts is NOT centrism.
Quote3 - You'd be surprised to know I have some liberal minded people on my sub list too.
"Classically" liberal, perhaps. But if that's genuine, I commend your courage in wading unfamiliar waters.
Quote4 - dunno what that link is but I aren't clicking it without description.
It was a dumb joke, but now it's an ironic dumb joke.
Quote from: Hydra009 on June 06, 2019, 09:43:06 PM
You're doing "centrism" wrong. Saying that holocaust deniers and non-holocaust deniers are equally nuts is NOT centrism.
"Classically" liberal, perhaps. But if that's genuine, I commend your courage in wading unfamiliar waters.
It was a dumb joke, but now it's an ironic dumb joke.
Wtf is a non-holocaust denier? And again, are you just making blanket comparisons?
Something wrong with classical liberalism? Seems more grounded then lot of modern trends of liberalism
You just gave away the punchline.
Quote from: Munch on June 06, 2019, 01:16:53 PM
For the ease of this I'll refer to the right as being of conservative, and saying religious are more drawn to conservative values. Thing is, conservative values are not systematically bad, it has positive values like raising a family, having a home and job, living by traditional means, all are good aspects for people to follow. My mother is a conservative, but she's never prayed to any god or has ever shown signs of racism or homophobia, same with a lot of the older generation in my family. Religious people are drawn to the older ways of doing things since the older ways are more akin to upholding religious beliefs, so the two come together more so.
But lets also be honest just from and understanding of humanity itself, by the same argument you made, the left could be just as labeled the same way, just the other side of the coin. Modern hard left aren't racist to minorities, but they can be to whites. Their not sexist to LGBT people, but are to heterosexuals. There 'progressive' to peoples nationality outside their own country, but slam people for having the same national identity within their own country. Its two different sides of the same coin.
Atheism just falls in line with more liberal views because of the tie religious views has to conservatism. In my case it was my sexuality that made me realize why I didn't want to follow in line with any religion, atheism came later. I just now happen to uphold both liberal and conservative values.
I'll also add, finding the bad in conservatism is easy because that writings been on the walls for a long time. Seeing the worst side of the left is a newer thing but you just end up seeing its the same thing either side of the spectrum, people are people, they take shit to far and damage any ideal they have as a result. And in such cases the worst outcome is when people like this take those corrupt values and push them into everyone elses lives.
I looked back though some of his videos and didn't really get a vibe of his comment section having any strong christian views, but then his videos were based on political and tech stuff so maybe they had little reason to speak out about it.
Your problem is you let those on the Right define the Left for you. The Left does not hate white or straight people. What an absolutely ridiculous claim. It makes as much sense as a Christian living in a country that is overwhelming Christian majority claiming that atheists are somehow oppressing them. Wake the hell up.
As for the Right being for traditional values, I refer you to my previous comment. (http://atheistforums.com/index.php?topic=13531.msg1254464#msg1254464) The idea that the Right are for "traditional religious values" is bullshit. Those values, the ones worth holding, have nothing to do with their religion or their political lean. The Left doesn't want to tear down the traditional family structure. They want to allow others to do their things too, if they want to. Married lesbian couple wants to adopt a child? Let them. Polyamorous people want to...exist? Leave them be. Want to live together, but don't particularly care about getting married? Go for it. Want to marry one person of the opposite sex and have children? That's fine too. Do whatever the fuck you want. The problem, however, is that the Right doesn't want people to do whatever they want. The "values" they go on about are about making their family structure the only legitimized one.
Quote from: Munch on June 06, 2019, 09:37:27 PM
put it this way, he is the only theistic guy on a forum full of atheists. Yet he still braves it on here every day and finds other things to talk about. Thats more then worth some merit.
And I am pro-British. All the frogs and sauerkrauts here, don't like that ... bwahaha.
MikeCL has anger issues sometimes. Us old guys are unstable. Think about pr126, not a young guy he was.
Quote from: trdsf on June 06, 2019, 06:41:44 PM
Wow, way to broad-brush and strawman there. I defy you to find one single solitary post anywhere on this forum going back as far as you wish where I denigrate straight people or white people. And you better believe I identify as being on the Left.
This is just bullshit, and nothing but.
I think you have a point. Sometimes we don't address people more directly, afraid to do so. But that leads to mudslinging that gets everyone dirty?
It is OK to be on the Left. But they have strange bedfellows these days, and I don't mean gay friends.
Quote from: Munch on June 06, 2019, 09:37:27 PM
put it this way, he is the only theistic guy on a forum full of atheists. Yet he still braves it on here every day and finds other things to talk about. Thats more then worth some merit.
I don't come here for the theism ;-)) I come here for the people (yeah, they are in bad mood sometimes, sure).
Quote from: Munch on June 06, 2019, 09:10:01 PM
Several on here are pessimistic
There is manic, there is depressive, and there is binary. At least binary people can do computer arithmetic ;-)
Quote from: aitm on June 06, 2019, 08:52:11 PM
Actually you just posted Jewish values...thats why your G-d had to make rules for your ancestors...they were human trash. Most humans, as you well know, don't have those values but you do like to pinch your own butt once in a while.
So, were you the one caught a few years ago posting classic anti-semitic content? That I called out? I hope not. You seem an artistic type ;-) And MikeCL agreed with you, but he has anger issues.
Some people don't like any rules. Usually those are called anarchists or criminals. I am simply admitting the truth about humanity. I will be optimistic when the shit stops hitting the fan. Or I go into the fertilizer business.
Quote from: Blackleaf on June 06, 2019, 11:07:46 PM
Your problem is you let those on the Right define the Left for you. The Left does not hate white or straight people. What an absolutely ridiculous claim. It makes as much sense as a Christian living in a country that is overwhelming Christian majority claiming that atheists are somehow oppressing them. Wake the hell up.
In addition to getting the "facts" from the Right, it also reveals a miserable understanding of liberals, giving the lie to the claim that he hears out both sides.
Quote from: Hydra009 on June 06, 2019, 11:31:41 PM
In addition to getting the "facts" from the Right, it also reveals a miserable understanding of liberals, giving the lie to the claim that he hears out both sides.
No true liberals etc. Words illuminate and hide.
Quote from: Munch on June 06, 2019, 10:07:52 PM
Wtf is a non-holocaust denier? And again, are you just making blanket comparisons?
Something wrong with classical liberalism? Seems more grounded then lot of modern trends of liberalism
You just gave away the punchline.
I was making a point that seems to have been entirely lost. I won't bother to explain the holocaust versus non-holocaust thing. It's a fairly common retort to your favored false balance argument. You don't understand that for a pretty obvious reason.
The "classical liberalism" jab was a reference to a certain youtuber we're both familiar with who pretty much lost his mind and went 100% for Trump in the 2016 election. The punchline is that if you consider that liberal, you're entirely deluded.
Quote from: Hydra009 on June 06, 2019, 11:36:09 PM
I was making a point that seems to have been entirely lost. I won't bother to explain the holocaust versus non-holocaust thing. It's a fairly common retort to your favored false balance argument. You don't understand that for a pretty obvious reason.
The "classical liberalism" jab was a reference to a certain youtuber we're both familiar with who pretty much lost his mind and went 100% for Trump in the 2016 election. The punchline is that if you consider that liberal, you're entirely deluded.
Don't know who, but concur that 100% pro-Trump is not liberal ... nor conservative for that matter. Trump is a Romulan disruptor.
Quote from: Munch on June 06, 2019, 07:03:53 PM
so wait, am I making a broad statement or making an individual statement, you seem a little conflicted on that.
how did you even manage to interpret that as being aimed at you?
I'm on the Left, you spewed a bullshit-based attack on the Left. The math isn't that fucking difficult.
It smells of "fake"
Quote from: Draconic Aiur on June 07, 2019, 12:32:11 AM
It smells of "fake"
Maybe it does. I left a YouTube comment asking if it was a joke.
Quote from: trdsf on June 07, 2019, 12:08:07 AM
I'm on the Left, you spewed a bullshit-based attack on the Left. The math isn't that fucking difficult.
Kinda like how you make broad stroke statements of those on the right and then get offended when someone does the same to the left?
Quote from: Munch on June 07, 2019, 05:00:29 AM
Kinda like how you make broad stroke statements of those on the right and then get offended when someone does the same to the left?
When we look in the mirror, to shave, we have no image, just like Dracula (we can't see ourselves as others see us).
I wish I had a dollar for every jesus-freak asshole who claimed "I was an atheist and then jesus came along and jerked me off."
Quote from: Minimalist on June 07, 2019, 11:34:18 AM
I wish I had a dollar for every jesus-freak asshole who claimed "I was an atheist and then jesus came along and jerked me off."
For some lonely gays, that sounds like a good scam ;-) Just gotta not cut your hair or beard.
Quote from: Munch on June 07, 2019, 05:00:29 AM
Kinda like how you make broad stroke statements of those on the right and then get offended when someone does the same to the left?
The difference is that he criticizes conservative policies/beliefs that actually exist in large numbers around here. You do not.
Quote from: Munch on June 07, 2019, 05:00:29 AM
Kinda like how you make broad stroke statements of those on the right and then get offended when someone does the same to the left?
Ah, yes. The ever-popular "I know you are but what am I?"
First of all:
find one where I did exactly that. I think you'll find that I'm generally very careful to specify who and what I'm talking about.
Second of all,
if you do find one,
show that it's not correct. Show that I pulled some bullshit statement out of my ass like you did.
Your
second biggest mistake was in trying to tell me what I, as a denizen of the political left, think.
Never do that. If you want to know if I believe something,
you fucking ask me. You do
NOT drop a stupid-ass statement like you did, not if you want to retain even a fig-leaf of credibility.
Your
biggest mistake is thinking it's defensible. All you've demonstrated to me is that I have no need to give a rat's ass about your opinion anymore.
The world is full of 2 kinds of people. There are those who simply cannot understand reality and hope for a better world after they die, and those who understand the real world where we live and die and "that's it" where the heart stops, the brain dies and all conciousness ends.
The people I've known best on the first are generally pretty stupid. They live their only existence waiting for the next, and so don't really much care (or actively ignore) what happens here on Earth. They expect their real existence happens after they get their halo up in the "clouds".
If they would stop intruding their "uncaringness" on the rest of us, it probably wouldn't matter too much. They could live here while they wait to die and go "beyond", and it wouldn't do much harm.
But they (illogically) won't. They just HAVE to push on the rest of us, frighten children, upset old adults, etc.
I think it is because they aren't sure they are right...
Correct, this is it! Demand a refund while you still can ;-)
Quote from: Baruch on June 09, 2019, 01:54:09 PM
Correct, this is it! Demand a refund while you still can ;-)
Send all refunds to the Atheist organization of your choice. And we'll need your credit card number and security code of course (just for the tax statement we need to send to you). A mere formality...
Part of the theistic programming is copying itself.
Quote from: Sal1981 on June 10, 2019, 01:23:27 AM
Part of the theistic programming is copying itself.
aka meme. Everything in language is a meme.
Quote from: Baruch on June 10, 2019, 08:06:53 AM
aka meme. Everything in language is a meme.
Well, if you want to be pedantic, then memeplexes, of memetics.
We live in the "me me" generation. Hence the word "meme."
Quote from: Unbeliever on June 10, 2019, 01:34:20 PM
We live in the "me me" generation. Hence the word "meme."
Memeplex is obsolete, since the Millennials abandoned the malls and their theaters.
Quote from: Unbeliever on June 10, 2019, 01:34:20 PM
We live in the "me me" generation. Hence the word "meme."
I always though "meme" came from "gene"... Like a genetic spread...
Well, I think that's how Dawkins meant it. But I like "me me."
Quote from: Unbeliever on June 11, 2019, 01:23:27 PM
Well, I think that's how Dawkins meant it. But I like "me me."
I like "me me" too. There is an inherent selfishness to both.
Quote from: Cavebear on June 11, 2019, 10:23:54 PM
I like "me me" too. There is an inherent selfishness to both.
We had a selfish Gene, until his wife konked him with a rolling pin ;-)
Remember Gene Gene the Dancing Machine?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ME_rrjIODTE
At 1:16 we get a bit of a more than we'd bargained for! Now that's a meme!
Quote from: Baruch on June 06, 2019, 12:06:55 PM
Human values ...
I can steal whatever I want
I can rape whomever I want
I can murder whomever I want
Politics and religion will provide rationalizations for the above ape behavior.
BTW - you were quoting Jewish values. Here is the most important one ... the only good Gentile is a dead Gentile ;-)
Rubbish.
Those aren't human values. If they were, we would never have survived as a species.
Hell, even Bonobo chimps get punished and ejected from their group, if they act like you describe.
Altruism, kin selection, reciprocity, are the human values that helped us survive as a species.
After all, we are a social species.
Not just a social species, but a communist one ;-)
Mo Tzu, an ancient Chinese philosopher, spoke like you. We call them optimists today. That people are born good.
https://www.iep.utm.edu/mozi/
Shi Huang Di, the first Emperor, would violently disagree. His state, Chin (from which China) was legalist, punishing people severely…
Quote from: Baruch on July 02, 2019, 10:13:36 PM
Not just a social species, but a communist one ;-)
Mo Tzu, an ancient Chinese philosopher, spoke like you. We call them optimists today. That people are born good.
https://www.iep.utm.edu/mozi/
Shi Huang Di, the first Emperor, would violently disagree. His state, Chin (from which China) was legalist, punishing people severely…
Sorry...
"Qián (simplified Chinese: é'±; traditional Chinese: 錢), spelled Chin based on its pronunciation in Cantonese (Jyutping: Cin4; Cantonese Yale: Chìhn; IPA: /tÍ¡sÊ°iËn²¹/). Written with a character meaning "money", according to tradition this originated as an occupational surname during the Western Zhou dynasty"
Nothing for you to be sorry for.
One of my favorite YouTubers, DarkMatter2525, made a response to this. A couple of responses, actually. One's his original 1.5 hour video, responding to each point, and the other is his more condensed version of that.
Condensed version:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Oa0He8-w9E
Full version:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIPo4DdA2sE
To paraphrase, it seems like Dave really hates capitalism and just doesn't know it yet.
In early modern times ... we had Judeo-Christian Greco-Roman culture. Over the last 300 years, we have successively removed each of these, one step at a time. This is the Left nihilist self destruction cumulative (in W European milieu).
Starting with the Enlightenment 200+ years ago (that produced the US) which promoted secular/materialism values primariy. Then Jewish people moving to socialist atheism 100+ years ago (that produced modern Israel). Then the gradual abandonment of Christianity in Europe, starting with the Soviet Union, and then the collapse of confidence after WW I (which produced modern Europe).
There aren't much support for Greco-Roman paganism ... yet. The secular/materialist/atheist faction in ancient Greece/Rome was a small part of what was their Greco-Roman culture.
If anyone is thinking of going to that comment section to argue with him, don't. Nothing is more impenetrable than a convert's enthusiasm. You'd be wasting your time.
Maybe we should go back to worshipping Mithra...
Quote from: Unbeliever on September 26, 2019, 02:02:22 PM
Maybe we should go back to worshipping Mithra...
You would have to be a Roman army officer. Today this mystery religion with ranks ... is called Freemasonry. As I have hinted before, I have no problem with traditional polytheism. I see monism-dualism as a theological gambit.
Quote from: Hijiri Byakuren on September 26, 2019, 01:57:44 PM
If anyone is thinking of going to that comment section to argue with him, don't. Nothing is more impenetrable than a convert's enthusiasm. You'd be wasting your time.
My impression is that Mr Cullen is an ethno-Christian (a ginger). He isn't ready for Celtic paganism yet. And probably more tribal than nationalist. So y'all lose woke-points there. Tribal culture is not capitalist of course, even Rousseau knew that.
Nationalists like tribals, distrust large powerful tyrannical institutions. I see no problem with that distrust. People who don't see a problem are either gullible or working for the tyranny.
Another C. S. Lewis who believes his own logic.
Quote from: Gregory on March 05, 2020, 09:33:57 PM
Another C. S. Lewis who believes his own logic.
I see you tried the Turkish Delight offered by the Snow Queen ...
Religion poisons the individual.
Quote from: Gregory on March 16, 2020, 04:53:05 AM
Religion poisons the individual.
Too much water = drowning ... religion is like ... that.