Landing on the lunar surface doesn't take a vast government program any more, apparently. This may well be the future of space missions, so maybe a lunar colony won't be far off.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpaceIL
QuoteSpaceIL is an Israeli organization, established in 2011, that was competing in the Google Lunar X Prize (GLXP) to land a spacecraft on the Moon. SpaceIL successfully launched its Beresheet lander on 22 February 2019, which is expected to land on the Moon's surface on 12 April 2019. The Beresheet mission includes plans to measure the Moon's local magnetic field to help understand how it formed, and also carries a digital "time capsule". Beresheet would be the first Israeli spacecraft to travel beyond Earth orbit and the first private lander on the Moon. Israel would also become the fourth country, after the Soviet Union, United States, and China, to land a spacecraft on the Moon.
The SpaceIL team was founded as a nonprofit organization wishing to promote scientific and technological education in Israel. Its total budget for the mission is estimated at US$95 million, provided by Israeli billionaire Morris Kahn and other philanthropists, as well as the Israel Space Agency (ISA).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_9mQ0Zj_u4
https://www.cnet.com/news/israeli-lunar-lander-beresheet-back-on-track-after-glitch/
Quote from: Unbeliever on March 01, 2019, 06:32:32 PM
Landing on the lunar surface doesn't take a vast government program any more, apparently. This may well be the future of space missions, so maybe a lunar colony won't be far off.
I very much hope so. If commercial enterprises can't do it eventually, we can't afford it.
Quote from: Cavebear on March 21, 2019, 07:27:40 AM
I very much hope so. If commercial enterprises can't do it eventually, we can't afford it.
Correct, but that is why we need government, to do the things that have to be done, that we can't afford.
Read Heinlein's "The Man Who Sold The Moon".
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on March 21, 2019, 07:36:34 AM
Read Heinlein's "The Man Who Sold The Moon".
But, but .. any occupation of the Moon will be by some socialist collective, so no danger from capitalism here ;-)
If there were any real profit to make, we'd've been there already.
Quote from: Unbeliever on March 21, 2019, 01:17:17 PM
If there were any real profit to make, we'd've been there already.
IF we could have been there sooner we would have been there sooner. This is not off the shelf shit we're talking about here.
I think we could have been there sooner if the political of financial motivation had been sufficient.
Quote from: Unbeliever on March 21, 2019, 01:17:17 PM
If there were any real profit to make, we'd've been there already.
"Like timber in North America in 1400"? he asked innocently...
Uh, yeah, like that ...
;-)
Lots of old growth forest on the dark side of the Moon, that is why the Nazis are hiding there.
Quote from: Baruch on March 21, 2019, 07:07:22 PM
Lots of old growth forest on the dark side of the Moon, that is why the Nazis are hiding there.
Better than the Skrulls and Krees...
Quote from: Cavebear on March 25, 2019, 04:54:18 AM
Better than the Skrulls and Krees...
That is raacisstt.
Quote from: Baruch on March 25, 2019, 07:11:16 AM
That is raacisstt.
No it's not; it's Earthist. Maybe.
Quote from: Cavebear on March 29, 2019, 07:10:40 AM
No it's not; it's Earthist. Maybe.
At least it would be genuine races...
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on March 29, 2019, 10:35:18 AM
At least it would be genuine races...
Depends on interstellar transpermia...The Skrulls, Kree, and us are a bit similar...
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on March 21, 2019, 07:36:34 AM
Read Heinlein's "The Man Who Sold The Moon".
And, The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress.
Quote from: Mike Cl on March 29, 2019, 12:34:18 PM
And, The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress.
And when the Protector Pak arrived with the Virus of Life, it all changed...
Quote from: Unbeliever on March 01, 2019, 06:32:32 PM
Landing on the lunar surface doesn't take a vast government program any more, apparently. This may well be the future of space missions, so maybe a lunar colony won't be far off.
Yyyyyeah, about that Beresheet lander (https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/2019/lro-beresheet-impact-site-spotted)...
Quote from: trdsf on July 20, 2019, 02:20:00 AM
Yyyyyeah, about that Beresheet lander (https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/2019/lro-beresheet-impact-site-spotted)...
The more the better. Ultimately, we aren't going to escape the planet one nation or company at a time. It is going to be co-operative in general ways or it won't succeed.
I truly do think that sci-fi writers have shown us the way. It is not going to be easy, and people will die on the the way to Mars and beyond. But people died in ships seeking understand the surface of the Earth and that didn't stop them from trying.
We are seekers. We first wondered what was "over that hill", then "over that mountain" and even "what's on the top of that mountain"?
The drive that pulls us to see what is on the top of the mountain, cross a desert, try to see the bottom of the ocean... Those things now drive us to want to step on Mars. Every time we say "been there, done that", we look for something new to try.
If we ever find a new intelligent species "out there somewhere" , I suspect it will be too hard to make war. That may be the only saving grace of distance. And, this may seem silly, but if we talk, the first word we will understand is the name of the planet we meet
It will mean "dirt". Well, "soil or ground", maybe. Every civilization will call their planet some version of "dirt". Ya gotta start somewhere...
Quote from: trdsf on July 20, 2019, 02:20:00 AM
Yyyyyeah, about that Beresheet lander (https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/2019/lro-beresheet-impact-site-spotted)...
Sad. Article didn't describe what went wrong.
Quote from: Baruch on July 20, 2019, 05:56:21 AM
Sad. Article didn't describe what went wrong.
It fell down and went boom. Well, no sound on the Moon, so maybe no boom.
Quote from: Unbeliever on July 20, 2019, 02:18:47 PM
It fell down and went boom. Well, no sound on the Moon, so maybe no boom.
If a ship hits the moon, does it make a sound? Probably not. Depends on how you define "sound". But it would make it vibrate for about 25 minutes. Just saw that today on the Science Channel.
Quote from: Cavebear on July 20, 2019, 02:39:25 PM
If a ship hits the moon, does it make a sound? Probably not. Depends on how you define "sound". But it would make it vibrate for about 25 minutes. Just saw that today on the Science Channel.
Sound inside lunar crust. If the Moon had ears ...
Quote from: Baruch on July 20, 2019, 04:32:57 PM
Sound inside lunar crust. If the Moon had ears ...
That was observational data...
It's hard to believe it's been half a century since I watched people land on the moon. I was 13 years old, and was lucky enough to have access to television.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzbquKCqEQY
Quote from: Unbeliever on July 20, 2019, 06:08:50 PM
It's hard to believe it's been half a century since I watched people land on the moon. I was 13 years old, and was lucky enough to have access to television.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzbquKCqEQY
Today. Wow, times passes and I mean I knew today was coming, but I didn't realize it was the 20th right now. Well it wasn't when I got online yesterday.
"One small step for a man, one giant leap for mankind!"
How did we stop? How do we start again?
Quote from: Cavebear on July 20, 2019, 06:19:37 PM
Today. Wow, times passes and I mean I knew today was coming, but I didn't realize it was the 20th right now. Well it wasn't when I got online yesterday.
"One small step for a man, one giant leap for mankind!"
How did we stop? How do we start again?
Going to Moon. Probably for the same reason that the Space Shuttle got replaced by a drone. Constellation project was cancelled.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constellation_program
A friend of mine has worked on the Orion capsule project.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orion_(spacecraft)
Artemis replaced Constellation. First manned flight, 2023. First unmanned flight 2021. The unmanned flights are drones probably, like the drone Space Shuttle.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_X-37
Once it was plain that we'd beaten everyone else to the moon we lost interest, and moved on to the next news cycle.
Quote from: Cavebear on July 20, 2019, 06:19:37 PM
Today. Wow, times passes and I mean I knew today was coming, but I didn't realize it was the 20th right now. Well it wasn't when I got online yesterday.
"One small step for a man, one giant leap for mankind!"
How did we stop? How do we start again?
We stopped because:
- the race was "won", we showed those damn Rooskies who's "better"; and
- Nixon wanted to kill off what was seen as a Kennedy accomplishment, made all the worse for happening on his watch. He could have made it his by upping the ante and setting the task of a permanent lunar base by the end of the 70s, but that's not the way his dark and twisted brain worked. And,
- even though the Apollo program had a 14:1 return on investment, the average American didn't see it immediately, so public support faded; and
- the Soviet space program more or less ceded the moon (mainly due to the death of Sergei Korolev, and the constant failures of the N1 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N1_(rocket)#Launch_history), of which it would be charitable to call them merely disastrous) and focused on space stations, providing no more "competition".
EDIT: Damn forum software. I really wanted an inline link to the four N1 launches, not an insert of the video. Well, hell, all right, here's the video. The second N1 failure is one of the largest non-nuclear explosions ever.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_iuo3J8L9b8
Quote from: Unbeliever on July 20, 2019, 07:37:07 PM
Once it was plain that we'd beaten everyone else to the moon we lost interest, and moved on to the next news cycle.
Remember SEALAB? Dropped off the news even faster.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underwater_habitat
The Ithaa undersea restaurant looks interesting, but the Maldives is far far away.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jX3zAuthIRM
Experience Apollo 11 in real time (https://apolloinrealtime.org/11/)
Two days after the anniversary of his agency's crowning achievement, NASA's first flight director and mastermind of the Mercury, Gemini and Apollo programs Chris Craft has died at the age of 95 (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-49082897).
Quote from: trdsf on July 20, 2019, 07:43:28 PM
We stopped because:
- the race was "won", we showed those damn Rooskies who's "better"; and
- Nixon wanted to kill off what was seen as a Kennedy accomplishment, made all the worse for happening on his watch. He could have made it his by upping the ante and setting the task of a permanent lunar base by the end of the 70s, but that's not the way his dark and twisted brain worked. And,
- even though the Apollo program had a 14:1 return on investment, the average American didn't see it immediately, so public support faded; and
- the Soviet space program more or less ceded the moon (mainly due to the death of Sergei Korolev, and the constant failures of the N1 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N1_(rocket)#Launch_history), of which it would be charitable to call them merely disastrous) and focused on space stations, providing no more "competition".
EDIT: Damn forum software. I really wanted an inline link to the four N1 launches, not an insert of the video. Well, hell, all right, here's the video. The second N1 failure is one of the largest non-nuclear explosions ever.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_iuo3J8L9b8
The Soviet failures probably demonstrate the difference between positively dedicated and negatively fearful science approaches.
Totalitarianism isn't good for you. That is why it is so attractive for us. Same reason why we smoke, drink etc.
Quote from: Baruch on August 20, 2019, 11:50:13 AM
Totalitarianism isn't good for you.
I agree with that part.
Quote from: Cavebear on August 20, 2019, 10:19:22 AM
The Soviet failures probably demonstrate the difference between positively dedicated and negatively fearful science approaches.
Partly. The early successes of the Soviet space program were partly because of the top-down nature of their system that could simply order things done, partly because the American space program was hampered by competition between the different military branches, each of which had their own programs fighting for resources, partly because Sergei Korolev was a hand's-down undeniable genius, andâ€"it is allegedâ€"partly because Eisenhower held the space program back until after the Soviets orbited a satellite first so that the international precedent of unfettered overflight was set by them.
The later failures of the Soviet space program are partly attributable to the top-down nature of their system that could simply order things done without regard to whether the orders were reasonable, partly to the unexpected death of Korolev, and partly due to American efforts being concentrated in NASA rather than divided between the military branches.
Probably the biggest setback all around was the loss of Korolev; it's likely he could have either sorted out the problems with the N1, or scrapped the project in favor of one that worked. I think it's likely we'd have a permanent moonbase by now if Korolev had lived, since the race for the moon would have continued. The next race after landing would have been for a permanent presence; Korolev would have pushed for it and he had sufficient stature that he could have gotten itâ€"and there's no way the US government would have allowed an unanswered Soviet base on the moon.
What about the mystery cosmonaut? Was there a never acknowledged cosmonaut? Was she a women?
Quote from: Baruch on August 23, 2019, 10:56:38 PM
What about the mystery cosmonaut? Was there a never acknowledged cosmonaut? Was she a women?
Would you like to provide any information on that? Would you like to suggest names? Would you like to name never acknowledged cosmonaut? Would you like to prove there are no unicorns?
Quote from: Cavebear on August 24, 2019, 12:13:56 AM
Would you like to provide any information on that? Would you like to suggest names? Would you like to name never acknowledged cosmonaut? Would you like to prove there are no unicorns?
You deny all reality, right? There are no mysteries, only what CNN dumps straight into your head thru your tooth fillings?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKYfEjg0liU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZidFWLrLnU
Yes, your Soviet buddies never fail, never have a coverup.
Quote from: Baruch on August 24, 2019, 12:57:13 AM
You deny all reality, right? There are no mysteries, only what CNN dumps straight into your head thru your tooth fillings?
Yes, your Soviet buddies never fail, never have a coverup.
I might well be the epitome of the "reality exists" idea. And I don't watch CNN much though my experience is that they are generally accurate in their reports.
Quote from: Cavebear on August 24, 2019, 02:01:23 AM
I might well be the epitome of the "reality exists" idea. And I don't watch CNN much though my experience is that they are generally accurate in their reports.
The first lie, is how much is reported (control of boundary of narrative). Anything outside of the official boundary ... is debunked.
The second lie, is to carefully take the facts (as limited above) and spin them into an interpretation (why did Oswald shoot JFK). With assassinated assassins, this leaves a big hole. With the guy who shot MLK, he lives awhile longer, but people were careful to debunk anything he said (he was an assassin, so why believe him?).
Quote from: Baruch on August 24, 2019, 08:56:40 AM
The first lie, is how much is reported (control of boundary of narrative). Anything outside of the official boundary ... is debunked.
The second lie, is to carefully take the facts (as limited above) and spin them into an interpretation (why did Oswald shoot JFK). With assassinated assassins, this leaves a big hole. With the guy who shot MLK, he lives awhile longer, but people were careful to debunk anything he said (he was an assassin, so why believe him?).
You almost made sense there...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kbwx4Ci1vNo
A different conspiracy, but still about the space race. And all about your gullibility for Soviet propaganda. US propaganda (CBS, CNN etc) is just as bad.
Quote from: Baruch on August 24, 2019, 11:28:17 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kbwx4Ci1vNo
A different conspiracy, but still about the space race. And all about your gullibility for Soviet propaganda. US propaganda (CBS, CNN etc) is just as bad.
As the mercury astronauts said, someone had to go up first.
Yep, dogs and chimps.
Quote from: Baruch on August 24, 2019, 10:28:25 PM
Yep, dogs and chimps.
And let us not forget them as well. Good reminder.
Quote from: Cavebear on August 25, 2019, 12:00:16 AM
And let us not forget them as well. Good reminder.
You and I would never permit them to use cats ... nor would cats let themselves be used ;-)
Quote from: Baruch on August 25, 2019, 01:15:41 AM
You and I would never permit them to use cats ... nor would cats let themselves be used ;-)
The cats wouldn't have a choice.
Quote from: Cavebear on August 27, 2019, 01:35:41 AM
The cats wouldn't have a choice.
Cruel. Your cats should kill you now.
Quote from: Baruch on August 27, 2019, 02:08:15 AM
Cruel. Your cats should kill you now.
I wasn't saying *I* would do that. Just that it could be done. Drugs will make a cat amenable just like you and I or a dog or a chimp.