http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/1 ... ostpopular (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/19/paula-deen-racist-comments-n-word-caught-on-video_n_3467287.html?utm_hp_ref=mostpopular)
QuotePaula Deen is no stranger to controversy, but new allegations of racism leveled against the Southern chef may shock even those who have followed her troubles most closely.
The National Enquirer claims to have acquired a video of a deposition in which Deen admits to using the N-word and making racist and anti-semitic jokes. She also allegedly describes her interest in hiring black waiters dressed to look like "slaves" at a wedding.
The deposition, which was reportedly held on May 17, took place as part of a court case brought forth by former Paula Deen Enterprises employee Lisa Jackson against Deen and her brother, Earl "Bubba" Hiers. Jackson alleges several instances of sexual and racial workplace discrimination.
Neither the video of the deposition or The National Enquirer's story are available on the web, but Radar Online posted some of the story's most disturbing highlights:
[W]hen asked if she wanted black men to play the role of slaves at a wedding she explained she got the idea from a restaurant her husband and her had dined at saying, "The whole entire waiter staff was middle-aged black men, and they had on beautiful white jackets with a black bow tie.
"I mean, it was really impressive. That restaurant represented a certain era in America...after the Civil War, during the Civil War, before the Civil War...It was not only black men, it was black women...I would say they were slaves."
While The National Enquirer has a checkered history when it comes to printing the truth, it's worth noting that the tabloid was first to break the story that Deen suffered from type II diabetes, and its early reporting on the John Edwards affair turned the story into a national scandal.
A representative for Deen strongly refutes The National Enquirer's allegations, telling Entertainment Tonight that, "Contrary to media reports, Ms. Deen does not condone or find the use of racial epithets acceptable. She is looking forward to her day in court."
We'll be following this story closely to see if these allegations pan out. If they do, we imagine Paula Deen will have some explaining to do.
UPDATE: The Huffington Post has obtained a transcript of the deposition in question. The quotes below are pulled directly from it.
On using the N-word:
Lawyer: Have you ever used the N-word yourself?
Deen: Yes, of course.
Lawyer: Okay. In what context?
Deen: Well, it was probably when a black man burst into the bank that I was working at and put a gun to my head.
Lawyer: Okay. And what did you say?
Deen: Well, I don't remember, but the gun was dancing all around my temple ... I didn't -- I didn't feel real favorable towards him.
Lawyer: Okay. Well, did you use the N-word to him as he pointed a gun in your head at your face?
Deen: Absolutely not.
Lawyer: Well, then, when did you use it?
Deen: Probably in telling my husband.
Lawyer: Okay. Have you used it since then?
Deen: I'm sure I have, but it's been a very long time.
Lawyer: Can you remember the context in which you have used the N-word?
Deen: No.
Lawyer: Has it occurred with sufficient frequency that you cannot recall all of the various context in which you've used it?
Deen: No, no.
Lawyer: Well, then tell me the other context in which you've used the N-word?
Deen: I don't know, maybe in repeating something that was said to me.
Lawyer: Like a joke?
Deen: No, probably a conversation between blacks. I don't -- I don't know. But that's just not a word that we use as time has gone on. Things have changed since the '60s in the south. And my children and my brother object to that word being used in any cruel or mean behavior. As well as I do.
On her brother's behavior:
Lawyer: Are you aware of Mr. Hiers admitting that he engaged in racially and sexually inappropriate behavior in the workplace?
...
Deen: I guess
Lawyer: Okay. Well, have you done anything about what you heard him admit to doing?
Deen: My brother and I have had conversations. My brother is not a bad person. Do humans behave inappropriately? At times, yes. I don't know one person that has not. My brother is a good man. Have we told jokes? Have we said things that we should not have said, that -- yes, we all have. We all have done that, every one of us.
On telling jokes that target African Americans, Jews, gays and other groups:
Lawyer: What about jokes, if somebody is telling a joke that's got --
Deen: It's just what they are, they're jokes.
Lawyer: Okay. Would you consider those to be using the N word in a mean way?
...
Deen: That's -- that's kind of hard. Most -- most jokes are about Jewish people, rednecks, black folks. Most jokes target -- I don't know. I didn't make up the jokes, I don't know. I can't -- I don't know.
Lawyer: Okay.
Deen: They usually target, though a group. Gays or straights, black, redneck, you know, I just don't know. I can't, myself, determine what offends another person.
On planning a Southern plantation-style wedding:
Lawyer: Do you recall using the words "really southern plantation wedding"? Deen: Yes, I did say I would love for Bubba to experience a very southern style wedding, and we did that. We did that.
Lawyer: Okay. You would love for him to experience a southern style plantation wedding?
Deen: Yes.
Lawyer: That's what you said?
Deen: Well, something like that, yes. And -–
Laywer: Okay. And is that when you went on to describe the experience you had at the restaurant in question?
Deen: Well, I don't know. We were probably talking about the food or –- we would have been talking about something to do with service at the wedding, and –-
...
Lawyer: Is there any possibility, in your mind, that you slipped and used the word "n----r"?
Deen: No, because that's not what these men were. They were professional black men doing a fabulous job.
Lawyer: Why did that make it a -– if you would have had servers like that, why would that have made it a really southern plantation wedding?
...
Deen: Well, it –- to me, of course I'm old but I ain't that old, I didn't live back in those days but I've seen the pictures, and the pictures that I've seen, that restaurant represented a certain era in America.
Lawyer: Okay.
Deen: And I was in the south when I went to this restaurant. It was located in the south.
Lawyer: Okay. What era in America are you referring to?
Deen: Well, I don't know. After the Civil War, during the Civil War, before the Civil War.
Lawyer: Right. Back in an era where there were middle-aged black men waiting on white people.
Deen: Well, it was not only black men, it was black women.
Lawyer: Sure. And before the Civil War –- before the Civil War, those black men and women who were waiting on white people were slaves, right?
Deen: Yes, I would say that they were slaves.
Lawyer: Okay.
Deen: But I did not mean anything derogatory by saying that I loved their look and their professionalism.
I don't know whether to be mad or laugh at how fucking stupid she is.
She'll gain favor in the bottoms of Columbus.. Just remind me to not eat anything she's ever touched..
Yeah, she's not quite black enough to get away with using the word nigger.
Quote from: "Smartmarzipan"I don't know whether to be mad or laugh at how fucking stupid she is.
She pisses me off, personally. She's got one foot firmly planted in the early 60s but the advantages of her cookware made overseas for pennies, the blessed sales via internet, advantages of marketing using stuff like Facebook and people actually BUY her stuff and follow her around. She just promotes that type of *rebel* thinking, gets paid to do it, slathers everything within reach with fucking butter and the good ol southern gals just eat it up. It perpetuates all those things we should destroy........ like killing ourselves with bad cholesterol and still thinking of people of color as *black* or worse --- the *N* word. Which is Never ok. Not even in jest. Not even in slang. Just. Not. Ok.
I hope she gets buttered and flayed quite frankly.
Quote from: "WitchSabrina"Quote from: "Smartmarzipan"I don't know whether to be mad or laugh at how fucking stupid she is.
She pisses me off, personally. She's got one foot firmly planted in the early 60s but the advantages of her cookware made overseas for pennies, the blessed sales via internet, advantages of marketing using stuff like Facebook and people actually BUY her stuff and follow her around. She just promotes that type of *rebel* thinking, gets paid to do it, slathers everything within reach with fucking butter and the good ol southern gals just eat it up. It perpetuates all those things we should destroy........ like killing ourselves with bad cholesterol and still thinking of people of color as *black* or worse --- the *N* word. Which is Never ok. Not even in jest. Not even in slang. Just. Not. Ok.
I hope she gets buttered and flayed quite frankly.
Didn't she also hide her Type 2 Diabetes from everyone for a bit, too? All the while cooking up deep-fried crap and whatnot?
Is this all a joke that I'm missing? :/
The only stupid in the article is the fact that it's considered newsworthy over there... nothing she says seems strange. If that's the worst that happened, then really it seems like a huge whine about nothing.
Quote from: "Plu"Is this all a joke that I'm missing? :/
The only stupid in the article is the fact that it's considered newsworthy over there... nothing she says seems strange. If that's the worst that happened, then really it seems like a huge whine about nothing.
She wanted to use black waiters/servers to pretend to be slaves to wait on white people at a Southern wedding. Because that's "chic", or something.
Not my kind of wedding, but that doesn't mean it's A) based on racial hatred or B) law-suit worthy.
This whole thing just sounds really silly.
Quote from: "Smartmarzipan"Quote from: "WitchSabrina"Quote from: "Smartmarzipan"I don't know whether to be mad or laugh at how fucking stupid she is.
She pisses me off, personally. She's got one foot firmly planted in the early 60s but the advantages of her cookware made overseas for pennies, the blessed sales via internet, advantages of marketing using stuff like Facebook and people actually BUY her stuff and follow her around. She just promotes that type of *rebel* thinking, gets paid to do it, slathers everything within reach with fucking butter and the good ol southern gals just eat it up. It perpetuates all those things we should destroy........ like killing ourselves with bad cholesterol and still thinking of people of color as *black* or worse --- the *N* word. Which is Never ok. Not even in jest. Not even in slang. Just. Not. Ok.
I hope she gets buttered and flayed quite frankly.
Didn't she also hide her Type 2 Diabetes from everyone for a bit, too? All the while cooking up deep-fried crap and whatnot?
I don't know If she hid it persay. But I do know her Type 2 diabetes should have taken her fucking cookbooks off every shelf for good.
a duh
Sorry - but she's just gross. Bad cooking advice toppled with some good ol southern nastiness all wrapped up in a sheepish grin that seems a tale tale sign to me of what she's REALLY like at home when she lets her hair down.
I wouldn't be surprised to learn that she actually employs **blacks** in her own home. I really wouldn't be surprised.
After all - thats what Mama said to do - huh?
Not that hiring someone of color **should** matter. It should be where you just HIRE a PERSON.
But......... she'd be ALL about "hiring blacks".
backassward bullshit that I ran away from soooo so long ago.
Quote from: "Plu"Not my kind of wedding, but that doesn't mean it's A) based on racial hatred or B) law-suit worthy.
This whole thing just sounds really silly.
That's not what the lawsuit is about, though.
Quote from: "Plu"Is this all a joke that I'm missing? :/
The only stupid in the article is the fact that it's considered newsworthy over there... nothing she says seems strange. If that's the worst that happened, then really it seems like a huge whine about nothing.
It's only newsworthy Plu cause this sort of thing STILL goes on in this country. To me - stories like this - especially TV icons or celebrities should ALWAYS be made newsworthy. There's only One way to kill nasty attitude and upbringing. and that's to drag it into the lime light and kick its ass with some good lawyer-ing and media attention.
How about "Darkies?" Is that OK? I think the point she was trying to make is that the N word is a hate word used when you hate someone, and that she doesn't use it as a hate word for people she respects. This was why the detective was lambasted on the OJ trial who obviously was not a racist just because he used the word, even though Oprah used it herself over and over again on her show. Even she uses it as derogatory term when she hates, as do other people of the black race. What is one to do if a black person is an ass? Say, "please mister man of color, don't do that!" Or yes, that man of color raped a little girl and cut her arms off. Does this mean it is OK to be a racist? Of course not. Solitary
QuoteThat's not what the lawsuit is about, though.
I see. That might explain. It seems like a silly thing to have a lawsuit over but if it's just a small part of a bigger thing it might have some relevance.
Bad sunless tanning and too much eye makeup. Does anyone else see Tammy Fae?
(//http://uinterview.com/images/uinterview/news/ac8696c8e3f2a8b860894b5b71a5cfd2-280x280.jpg)
I don't know what to make of this women.
as for her cooking, well I grew up with southern style cookin'
no its not healthy but it tastes damn good. at least I think so. thats more of a personal preference.
if you're gonna hate her for liking fried chicken and fried okra, hate me too.
hating her for being southern is just plan ol' bigotry in my book. and people have hated her long before this shit came out. They hate her for celebrating southern style food which they look down on. (on that note though, how many of you eat perfectly healthy though, and have room to talk)
now that said, racism a legit reason to hate her. but here's where things just get weird.
check this out:
http://dailycaller.com/2013/06/21/n-wor ... supporter/ (http://dailycaller.com/2013/06/21/n-word-user-paula-deen-is-an-obama-supporter/)
Okay so she supported Obama's election, but called him a nigger while she did it.
now I for one can't figure out why a racist would support the black candidate or befriend folks like Oprah, but on the other hand if she isn't a racist why she would keep calling them niggers and wanting to glorify slavery with a mock slave hosted wedding, or go on TV and talk about her friend so black you can't see him by a blackboard (which said said several times to beyond the point of awkward)
so now I'm flummoxed. I can't tell if she's a racist, or just an idiot.
I don't think she should be fired over it though. I'm MUCH more concerned with scum like Hannity lying to people on his TV show and and actively promoting racist views albeit in an underhanded way, (birthism, making it like the new black panthers represent all blacks, dehumanizing immigrants etc) then some cook on TV who said stupid shit in private and then got caught in a court disposition, but as far as I know never promoted it on her show.
Her show was simply about cooking. so firing her for stuff she said in private unrelated to the show seems kinda draconian to me.
I've always been against firing people for stuff they do and say off the clock.
Quote from: "WitchSabrina"QuoteLawyer: Okay. What era in America are you referring to?
Deen: Well, I don't know. After the Civil War, during the Civil War, before the Civil War.
Thank God she cleared that up...
Quote from: "Plu"Not my kind of wedding, but that doesn't mean it's A) based on racial hatred or B) law-suit worthy.
This whole thing just sounds really silly.
The lawsuit, as The Rick Copeland understands it, has nothing to do with the wedding plans. Those came out during the deposition. The actual lawsuit involves allegations of racial discrimination and sexual harassment at a restaurant owned by Deen and her brother "Bubba"
Is it based on racial hatred? Hard to say. The Rick Copeland knows next to nothing about her besides she has a cooking show that used to focus heavily on saturated fats, she waited for some time before publicly mentioning the diabetes her lifestyle incurs, she was on a lot of magazine covers (was it her own publication?) and she got smacked in the face with a ham. But it is based on this romanticized notion of the anetebellum south that was supported by slavery and those "middle age" black men in crisp white suits and black ties -- a past she apparently either doesn't get or doesn't care about.
Quote"Out, out, brief candle! Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player that struts and frets his hour upon the stage and then is heard no more: it is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." Macbeth Quote (Act V, Scene V).
Until this hit the news I had no idea of who Paula Deen was and don't particularly care now that I know. The whole overblown news coverage really illustrates a point. This particular word, "nigger", has gained so much importance, probably as a result of the infamous OJ trial, that it can't even be printed by the media and TV reporters. They now have to say "the N word". Hey folks it is just a word! If you say it often enough it loses it's power. If people didn't feign such offense then it wouldn't be so offensive. In fact, I would guess that most people who are so offended by the word don't even know why they are offended.
The same reasoning goes for the word "fuck". When you ask someone why they are so offended by this word they can't really tell you. The real answer is because society has deemed that these words (nigger and fuck) are offensive but when you ask no one can really explain it.
Yes I know that the history of the word nigger is rooted in a part of US history that is unfavorable and calling a person with skin darker than oneself is definitely derogatory but why any more than any other slang word about any ethnic group? It is about the grievances a particular race feels about the way their ancestors were treated but when you examine mistreatment of ones ancestors by this country get in line behind the American Indians.
There were bleak days in this countries history that we should be ashamed of but for a word to create such controversy is ludicrous. My mother was the most tolerant person I've ever known in my life and about such words she would say I choose not to hear them. We should all live by such an example.
Anyway that's my opinion and you know what they say about opinions
QuoteThey hate her for celebrating southern style food which they look down on. (on that note though, how many of you eat perfectly healthy though, and have room to talk)
There are plenty of healthy Southern foods. Paula Dean doesn't cook "Southern", she cooks "Extremely Bad For Your System Southern".
She looks like the sort of bitch that would say those things. And that smile of hers is just absurd.
Quote from: "Shiranu"Quote"Extremely Bad For Your System Southern".
yeah but they taste good. my current stepmom is from georgia and she makes stuff like gravy with bacon fat poured over buttermilk biscuits, and mixed with sausage chunks. its flat out glorious. so what if its bad for you. just eat it in moderation.
I think the scandal over her diabetes is that she is currently selling diabetes medication, and making a buttload doing it, while continuing to promote a diet that likely causes it. Some other famous chef compared it to advocating activities that break your legs, and then selling crutches.
As for the lawsuit and the firing, if she did discriminate against her black employees, then she deserves it. And Food Network has every right to choose not to renew her contract, note that is not quite the same as being fired, if they want even if she is guiltless. For all we know, her rating were falling because healthy cooking is becoming much more popular, and this was just the hair that broke the camels back. Whatever the reason, they can let her go if they want. Personally, I never liked her show. I watch Food network a lot, and I recall watching her once, her son was on as a guest, and the grandson came on set. The son asked if the boy was supposed to be doing his homework, and the boy said something to the effect of hating school and learning, and they all laughed and said "like father like son!". I immediately disliked the whole strain of anti-intellectualism that pervaded the whole show.
There are other great southern cooks on Food Network, but to me, she was the Jersey Shore of that channel, if you get what I mean.
Quote from: "Aroura33"I think the scandal over her diabetes is that she is currently selling diabetes medication, and making a buttload doing it, while continuing to promote a diet that likely causes it. Some other famous chef compared it to advocating activities that break your legs, and then selling crutches.
The Rick Copeland was unaware of her hawking meds. Interesting.
He suspects the "other famous chef" is probably Anthony Bourdain. The Rick Copeland also knows next to nothing about him except that he makes fun of Guy Fierri. And that he is allegedly a heavy smoker...
I don't watch cooking shows, so I don't know much about any of them except that Bam! guy. I've watched a couple of his shows before.
oh and as a kid this cajun guy dad watched. don't remember his name.
I've seen hatred though needlessly aimed at some of the cooks.
like Rachel Ray. people hated her guts because get this, she was bubbly and happy. WTF! LOL. guess cooks need to be all serious n shit.
and others hated Paula Deen because she likes butter apparently. at least until now.
now she's been caught calling a bunch of blacks niggers and wanting a pretend slave party but also likes Obama and Oprah. so that pretty much alienates everybody. not a smart move. LOL
Quote from: "WitchSabrina"Bad sunless tanning and too much eye makeup. Does anyone else see Tammy Fae?
[ Image (//http://uinterview.com/images/uinterview/news/ac8696c8e3f2a8b860894b5b71a5cfd2-280x280.jpg) ]
And too many teeth. She scares me in the same manner that clowns scare me.
I quite liked Oliver's take on this.
[youtube:29qlq27b]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTFRNAiKwhw[/youtube:29qlq27b]
"Fried & Prejudice", fucking brilliant!
That's awesome.
maybe she is one of those people who thinks that as god made us all bros and sis's she is also part nigger. I nigger, you nigger, they nigger, us nigger....niggers be crazy to think I am racist, I'm a nigger too....just a white one.
Reminds me of a guy I worked for who would insist nigger meant dirty person and had no connections to blacks whatsoever. :lol:
yeah, keep telling yourself that, little porch monkey.
its cool, I'm taking it back.
[youtube:w92g9220]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWdVwt2deY4[/youtube:w92g9220]
Okay let's pass a law that every asshole that uses a racial slur has to do community SLAVE labor for a year. Repeat offenders get 3 years. Habitual offenders get life!
I don't understand why we care about this woman or anything she says.
The Rick Copeland is with you. Hell, if they really wanted to The Rick Copeland wouldn't care if the Food Network kept her show on the air beyond next month. People can rad about the trial, read the transcript, then make their own conclusion as to whether they want their time and money going to her.
Paula Deen, Danger Seeker.
[youtube:34688iz1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqTpqIUWVrc[/youtube:34688iz1]
As always, I'm appalled at how people can be quite nonchalant about the racism, but outraged about people calling OUT the racism. Because that always seems to be where it gets hung up -- nothing's really all that racist anymore because we're not whipping blacks or giving them separate water fountains, and hell, you can always just ignore the person.
Anything to convince ourselves that we live in totally post-racial America and everything is hunky dory and, jeez, if you really want to get technical, it's white folks like Paula Deen who REALLY have it tough.
Sigh.
:-|
Quote from: "Princess Megatron"As always, I'm appalled at how people can be quite nonchalant about the racism, but outraged about people calling OUT the racism. Because that always seems to be where it gets hung up -- nothing's really all that racist anymore because we're not whipping blacks or giving them separate water fountains, and hell, you can always just ignore the person.
Anything to convince ourselves that we live in totally post-racial America and everything is hunky dory and, jeez, if you really want to get technical, it's white folks like Paula Deen who REALLY have it tough.
Sigh.
:-|
I get what you're saying, but theres a couple elements of this situation that do bother me. The first, and lesser, one is that this is over the word nigger. It has stopped being a racial slur against black people and started being a word that only white people can't say. The word nigger is used countless times every day in conversations between black people and it isn't used as an insult but rather the same way the word "man" might be used.
i.e. man, I hate this
nigga, you crazy
Its used in this offhand sort of way. But if you're not black and you say it it doesn't matter how you intended it: you're a racist. It is diffucult to empathize with or respect the supposedly devastating racial implications of the word nigger when its been morphed into a casual word that black people say dozens of times a day to each other. If it was really that awful you would think black people wouldn't use it either. Its like native americans referring to each other as featherheads all the time.
My second issue and the more important one in my opinion is that this woman lost her job for saying the word. Thats pretty fucking crazy. She may be rich enough to be okay, but other people lose their jobs over this and similar relatively unimportant social blunders and their lives are wrecked. When did we become a society that demands the ruination of a person for saying the wrong word? If you live in a country where you're supposed to be allowed to say and think what you want, but if you say or think the wrong thing you get chewed up and spat out, then in what way do we actually have those freedoms?
Quote from: "Nonsensei"I don't understand why we care about this woman or anything she says.
People who embrace and absorb a public persona should be/are/will always be held with more scrutiny. It's part of what you sign up for when you accept celebrity. If Paula Deen accepts the fame and fortune then the price tag for that is public scrutiny. Public figures should be more accountable for their actions and deeds simply because most people look up to their celebrity.
Celebrity is also something that can be denied, avoided and stopped IF/When these public figures no longer wish to be in the lime light and under the microscope of public actions. Some have fleeting celebrity then take their fortunes made and vanish from public life.
I think as long as someone like Paula Deen accepts and enjoys her celebrity then she needs to live up to that and all the social pressures that will bring. Easy? No. Doable? Yes. The choice was always hers. Being from the south she should well know what that word Does in certain circumstances and herself, being all kinds of powdery white, should have to be careful with that word use.
At the end of the day - it is NOT a good word to use. Period. We can all try to play it off all we want like "meh - no biggie - it's just a slang word" but the truth is........... it's heritage is NOT funny nor slang.
Using the word is simply bad taste.
it's not funny.
She should have known better.
I hope she gets battered and fried.
Point in case............. little white 7 yr old girl tried to use that word with my granddaughter who is half black - she was trying to sound 'all ghetto' is what she told her parents.
not funny........
not to anyone. She sounded ignorant. Her parents were mortified. The school staff had to buckle down and invent ways of dealing with this crap. Kid had heard it on some reality TV show.
Did NOT fit HER, the situation, just completely inappropriate and left my grandchild in tears.
No.
it's not funny
There are lots of other slang-ish words to choose from. Lots.
Quote from: "WitchSabrina"People who embrace and absorb a public persona should be/are/will always be held with more scrutiny. It's part of what you sign up for when you accept celebrity. If Paula Deen accepts the fame and fortune then the price tag for that is public scrutiny. Public figures should be more accountable for their actions and deeds simply because most people look up to their celebrity.
Celebrity is also something that can be denied, avoided and stopped IF/When these public figures no longer wish to be in the lime light and under the microscope of public actions. Some have fleeting celebrity then take their fortunes made and vanish from public life.
I think as long as someone like Paula Deen accepts and enjoys her celebrity then she needs to live up to that and all the social pressures that will bring. Easy? No. Doable? Yes. The choice was always hers. Being from the south she should well know what that word Does in certain circumstances and herself, being all kinds of powdery white, should have to be careful with that word use.
The problem is that this sort of social pressure, and the wanton bloodthirst that results from failing to live up to societies super sensitive demands, is NOT restricted to celebrities. You go to a bar after work and say something someone might find offensive. Oh shit your boss is at the bar too and he heard you. Don't bother coming in tomorrow. Or that whole donglegate thing. One guy saying a stupid joke to another, gets fired because third party eavesdropped on them and decided to be offended. Guy gets fired from his job of 13 years, has 3 kids and a wife to support.
To suggest that this happened to just because she is in the public eye is wrong.
Theres been a shift in the country away from being intolerant for particular reasons, and toward being intolerant towards intolerance. At face value that sounds awesome, but unfortunately we are all still human beings. That means all the ugly, nasty, repulsive aspects of racial/gender/creed intolerance have transferred directly to this new form of being intolerant towards the intolerant. Instead of just informing people that their beliefs are fucked up, or taking steps to change public perception we have also decided that the people who violate our sensibilities need to pay in fucking BLOOD. Society wants to see them suffer deeply. Society wants to see their lives destroyed and their worth as a human being completely denied. In the end, people have merely shifted from looking down at others for something like their skin color to looking down on people for their views. Its just a new way to exert power over those you feel justified in labeling inferior.
Until human beings learn how to avoid this trap, all the righteous rhetoric in the world is ashes from the mouths of hypocrites.
Nonsensei has a good point.
Racism cannot go away with censorship. It will simply hide in the back alley and shadows.
The day a racist can express their views without thier lives being ruined, and people can then debate these ideas, Shining the light of knowledge on the stupidity, will do more to crush racism, than any amount of censorship or persecution ever will.
I became an atheist because I openly expressed Christian views to atheists who argued with me and thier arguments made sense. I became a liberal after trying to defend my conservative views against a professor who let me express my ideas, then debated me.
I can honestly say if we lived in a society that outright CRUSHED anyone who dared express a Christian or conservative view, I would have been afraid to express my views except in private with other Christian conservatives, But I would still be a Christian conservative.
It was only by being allowed to openly express my views and then have them exposed to debate that I was able to change my mind.
I think this is true for all views
Quote from: "Nonsensei"Quote from: "WitchSabrina"People who embrace and absorb a public persona should be/are/will always be held with more scrutiny. It's part of what you sign up for when you accept celebrity. If Paula Deen accepts the fame and fortune then the price tag for that is public scrutiny. Public figures should be more accountable for their actions and deeds simply because most people look up to their celebrity.
Celebrity is also something that can be denied, avoided and stopped IF/When these public figures no longer wish to be in the lime light and under the microscope of public actions. Some have fleeting celebrity then take their fortunes made and vanish from public life.
I think as long as someone like Paula Deen accepts and enjoys her celebrity then she needs to live up to that and all the social pressures that will bring. Easy? No. Doable? Yes. The choice was always hers. Being from the south she should well know what that word Does in certain circumstances and herself, being all kinds of powdery white, should have to be careful with that word use.
The problem is that this sort of social pressure, and the wanton bloodthirst that results from failing to live up to societies super sensitive demands, is NOT restricted to celebrities. You go to a bar after work and say something someone might find offensive. Oh shit your boss is at the bar too and he heard you. Don't bother coming in tomorrow. Or that whole donglegate thing. One guy saying a stupid joke to another, gets fired because third party eavesdropped on them and decided to be offended. Guy gets fired from his job of 13 years, has 3 kids and a wife to support.
To suggest that this happened to just because she is in the public eye is wrong.
Theres been a shift in the country away from being intolerant for particular reasons, and toward being intolerant towards intolerance. At face value that sounds awesome, but unfortunately we are all still human beings. That means all the ugly, nasty, repulsive aspects of racial/gender/creed intolerance have transferred directly to this new form of being intolerant towards the intolerant. Instead of just informing people that their beliefs are fucked up, or taking steps to change public perception we have also decided that the people who violate our sensibilities need to pay in fucking BLOOD. Society wants to see them suffer deeply. Society wants to see their lives destroyed and their worth as a human being completely denied. In the end, people have merely shifted from looking down at others for something like their skin color to looking down on people for their views. Its just a new way to exert power over those you feel justified in labeling inferior.
Until human beings learn how to avoid this trap, all the righteous rhetoric in the world is ashes from the mouths of hypocrites.
That's not what I said. I said she has more scrutiny due to her celebrity. And I think she SHOULD have more scrutiny.
THIS happened to her because she's fucking racist.
She's not in trouble because she "expressed herself". She's in trouble for being fucking racist.
I think there's a Huge difference between being *allowed* to express one's views........... and that *someone* who expresses their views being an asshole racist.
Big. Fuck. Difference.
http://eater.com/archives/2013/06/24/sm ... a-deen.php (http://eater.com/archives/2013/06/24/smithfield-foods-terminates-relationship-with-paula-deen.php)
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/2 ... 91210.html (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/24/paula-deen-sponsors_n_3491210.html)
just some updates
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/2 ... ostpopular (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/23/paula-deen-scandal-continues-employees-tell-rainbow-push-alleged-discrimination_n_3484607.html?utm_hp_ref=mostpopular)
Quote"It's a free country," Patillo said. "We have freedom of speech, and you can say what you want. Our issue is whether that mindset has filtered into employment decisions."
Patillo said there are strong indications that Deen's operation mistreats and limits opportunities for black employees.
best way IMHO to view this whole matter:
QuoteSaid Libby Middleson, of Mississippi, "I am sad that Ms. Deen has become a victim of her own behavior, but I am happy that we are at least discussing the part institutional racism still plays in our lives in America. It is my hope that we grow from this event."
Quote from: "Nonsensei"I get what you're saying, but theres a couple elements of this situation that do bother me. The first, and lesser, one is that this is over the word nigger. It has stopped being a racial slur against black people and started being a word that only white people can't say. The word nigger is used countless times every day in conversations between black people and it isn't used as an insult but rather the same way the word "man" might be used.
i.e. man, I hate this
nigga, you crazy
Its used in this offhand sort of way. But if you're not black and you say it it doesn't matter how you intended it: you're a racist. It is diffucult to empathize with or respect the supposedly devastating racial implications of the word nigger when its been morphed into a casual word that black people say dozens of times a day to each other. If it was really that awful you would think black people wouldn't use it either. Its like native americans referring to each other as featherheads all the time.
My second issue and the more important one in my opinion is that this woman lost her job for saying the word. Thats pretty fucking crazy. She may be rich enough to be okay, but other people lose their jobs over this and similar relatively unimportant social blunders and their lives are wrecked. When did we become a society that demands the ruination of a person for saying the wrong word? If you live in a country where you're supposed to be allowed to say and think what you want, but if you say or think the wrong thing you get chewed up and spat out, then in what way do we actually have those freedoms?
But my issue is, do all of these "elements" bother you more than the racism? Because that certainly seems true of way too many people I've seen talking about this.
It becomes more about "Well, what am *I* allowed to say? What if I lose *my* job?" Is it really that precarious of a situation that you don't know how
not to say racist things, really? People get all anxious when they see the "crucifixion" of Paula Deen and start drawing conclusions about their station in life -- seeing her as a direct cautionary tale (of course; if you're white and she's white, you must automatically have tons in common) -- than how her words in a public arena, around her black employees on a regular basis, affect them.
Well, I'd say first off, the N-word is out. It's just right out. Don't worry about who else can say it; it doesn't matter. You know what else I can't say? I can't say "Asshole!" really loud in my boss's face. I can't say "Quit being a total fucking dick" to my kid when he's acting out. There is an endless array of things I can't say, whether out of sheer civility or the threat of an unwanted consequence. I knew that when I was 16 years old, and yet we still have grown adults who seem . . .
stricken by the fact that they aren't allowed to say a word. And it's not even that they're not allowed to say it, or can't physically force the word out; they just don't want to deal with the consequences of saying it.
But you know what? I'm glad there are consequences. I'd rather there be swift, severe consequences for saying it than none at all, or even the lukewarm sort that means absolutely nothing in a practical sense. To a degree, the latter is more representative of America. Sure, Michael Richards probably "destroyed" his career doing what he did (although, by my count, he's got four new credits in IMDB since his racist rant). But then you've got Charlie Sheen, who was a temporary internet HERO for his stream of gibberish over Twitter, this man who has beaten and harassed women, besides launching his own racist tirade. Dog the Bounty Hunter had his show for several more years after his incident, and I hear CMT just picked him up for a NEW series.
All the while, people seem to lament the highly public, visible nature of their jobs. "Oh, networks can fire them if they say something embarrassing or hurtful!" Well . . . yes, they CAN. If it's 2013 and you're still not aware that saying the N-word is hurtful and offensive to people, it's probably the best move any network can make.
That said, Paula Deen's career isn't over any more than Imus' and Sheen's and Richards' were. A lot of sponsors are dropping her while the news is hot; I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that there will eventually be some sort of conciliatory guest appearance on Oprah's new show, or The View. Time will pass and all will gradually be forgiven, especially if she goes on TV and talk about how much of a "struggle" she went through and how it was all a "hard learning experience" and how she managed to "persevere" and blah blah blah. Because that's generally how it works; celebrities rarely feel any fatal, long-lasting consequences for their actions if they're marketable enough. And then being WHITE celebrities on top of it? She'll be back. They all came back.
That is, of course, for people who lose sleep over multimillionaires who lose endorsement deals and find themselves temporarily jobless. I know there's a lot of us.
As for the rest of us -- what consequences are there really? Okay, a boss might fire you for saying the word (as they might also fire me for yelling "Fuck!", or insulting the company -- speech has consequences, unless you're proposing it shouldn't). You might lose a couple of friends in disgust. A few black people might think you're mean. And then what? All of that sounds like a paid vacation compared to the sort of society where saying the N-word willy nilly was completely fine because the people about whom it was said were looked upon as inherently worth less than whites.
Words can inform behavior; what we allow or even encourage in civilized conversation can very easily influence how we feel about a topic, an incident or even a group of people. That's why conservatives call social programs "entitlement programs" or "Welfare", and why progressives tend to call them "social programs" or "safety nets". Even if "entitlement program" is accurate and describes funds to which the public is entitled by paying into them via taxes, the word "entitlement" is a heavily negatively-biased word now, and people who dislike those programs know that. They're also very fond of dog-whistle racism and putting things in quite racist terms without being explicitly racist. Words can be incredibly powerful and very much do influence how we look at people. That's why there's a strong reaction to the N-word, and why no one in his right mind should be acting to try and lessen that effect instead of simply not saying it as a conscientious citizen.
No, none of this addresses any of the worst causes-and-effects of systemic racism in this country, not by a long shot. But not too many are addressing that, anyway. I personally try to vote in ways that will ameliorate it -- I wanted bankers in jail for stealing money from everyone and making subprime loans that affected a much larger percentage of African Americans than whites -- but that's just me, and yet I can still find the energy to say "fuck you" to anyone who imagines they should have every right to say the N-word with impunity. And that's what people are still arguing over, now. Not only are there are tons of shady, racist business practices and laws on the books right now, but then there are people upset because there's a racial epithet they can't say. That's where we are.
Yet, people who do speak up and who do condemn its usage are told "Go complain about REAL racism!" It's never the lovers-of-all-things-N-word who are told, if they really DON'T want to be branded a racist, to stop using racist words and bickering about not being allowed to, and go tackle some of those more important racial causes themselves if they're so adamant about not appearing racist.
And by the way -- the N-word isn't a view. I'm actually pretty offended that anyone would compare liberal views or atheist thought (both things that apply to me) to a disgusting racial epithet. The N-word isn't an idea. It's not a concept. People are offended by liberal thought because they hate discourse and things which challenge their beliefs; same for atheism or secularism.
People are offended by the N-word because it was a word used by racists to degrade black people. They have ample CAUSE to find it offensive because that was its intention. Let's please lay off the WILD false equivalency.
If George Carlin were alive today he would definitely had to add that word to his list of words you can't say on Television. //http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbZhpf3sQxQ
That said, what we need is the word police. We need another cabinet member in charge of a Department of Word Usage that way we could have a legitimate list of the words that we can't say, not just on Television but in every day usage. We could even go further and make it a crime so that the police could waste even more of their time once again on crimes that don't involve murder, robbery, etc.
Quote from: "Princess Megatron"Quote from: "Nonsensei"I get what you're saying, but theres a couple elements of this situation that do bother me. The first, and lesser, one is that this is over the word nigger. It has stopped being a racial slur against black people and started being a word that only white people can't say. The word nigger is used countless times every day in conversations between black people and it isn't used as an insult but rather the same way the word "man" might be used.
i.e. man, I hate this
nigga, you crazy
Its used in this offhand sort of way. But if you're not black and you say it it doesn't matter how you intended it: you're a racist. It is diffucult to empathize with or respect the supposedly devastating racial implications of the word nigger when its been morphed into a casual word that black people say dozens of times a day to each other. If it was really that awful you would think black people wouldn't use it either. Its like native americans referring to each other as featherheads all the time.
My second issue and the more important one in my opinion is that this woman lost her job for saying the word. Thats pretty fucking crazy. She may be rich enough to be okay, but other people lose their jobs over this and similar relatively unimportant social blunders and their lives are wrecked. When did we become a society that demands the ruination of a person for saying the wrong word? If you live in a country where you're supposed to be allowed to say and think what you want, but if you say or think the wrong thing you get chewed up and spat out, then in what way do we actually have those freedoms?
But my issue is, do all of these "elements" bother you more than the racism? Because that certainly seems true of way too many people I've seen talking about this.
It becomes more about "Well, what am *I* allowed to say? What if I lose *my* job?" Is it really that precarious of a situation that you don't know how not to say racist things, really? People get all anxious when they see the "crucifixion" of Paula Deen and start drawing conclusions about their station in life -- seeing her as a direct cautionary tale (of course; if you're white and she's white, you must automatically have tons in common) -- than how her words in a public arena, around her black employees on a regular basis, affect them.
Well, I'd say first off, the N-word is out. It's just right out. Don't worry about who else can say it; it doesn't matter. You know what else I can't say? I can't say "Asshole!" really loud in my boss's face. I can't say "Quit being a total fucking dick" to my kid when he's acting out. There is an endless array of things I can't say, whether out of sheer civility or the threat of an unwanted consequence. I knew that when I was 16 years old, and yet we still have grown adults who seem . . . stricken by the fact that they aren't allowed to say a word. And it's not even that they're not allowed to say it, or can't physically force the word out; they just don't want to deal with the consequences of saying it.
But you know what? I'm glad there are consequences. I'd rather there be swift, severe consequences for saying it than none at all, or even the lukewarm sort that means absolutely nothing in a practical sense. To a degree, the latter is more representative of America. Sure, Michael Richards probably "destroyed" his career doing what he did (although, by my count, he's got four new credits in IMDB since his racist rant). But then you've got Charlie Sheen, who was a temporary internet HERO for his stream of gibberish over Twitter, this man who has beaten and harassed women, besides launching his own racist tirade. Dog the Bounty Hunter had his show for several more years after his incident, and I hear CMT just picked him up for a NEW series.
All the while, people seem to lament the highly public, visible nature of their jobs. "Oh, networks can fire them if they say something embarrassing or hurtful!" Well . . . yes, they CAN. If it's 2013 and you're still not aware that saying the N-word is hurtful and offensive to people, it's probably the best move any network can make.
That said, Paula Deen's career isn't over any more than Imus' and Sheen's and Richards' were. A lot of sponsors are dropping her while the news is hot; I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that there will eventually be some sort of conciliatory guest appearance on Oprah's new show, or The View. Time will pass and all will gradually be forgiven, especially if she goes on TV and talk about how much of a "struggle" she went through and how it was all a "hard learning experience" and how she managed to "persevere" and blah blah blah. Because that's generally how it works; celebrities rarely feel any fatal, long-lasting consequences for their actions if they're marketable enough. And then being WHITE celebrities on top of it? She'll be back. They all came back.
That is, of course, for people who lose sleep over multimillionaires who lose endorsement deals and find themselves temporarily jobless. I know there's a lot of us.
As for the rest of us -- what consequences are there really? Okay, a boss might fire you for saying the word (as they might also fire me for yelling "Fuck!", or insulting the company -- speech has consequences, unless you're proposing it shouldn't). You might lose a couple of friends in disgust. A few black people might think you're mean. And then what? All of that sounds like a paid vacation compared to the sort of society where saying the N-word willy nilly was completely fine because the people about whom it was said were looked upon as inherently worth less than whites.
Words can inform behavior; what we allow or even encourage in civilized conversation can very easily influence how we feel about a topic, an incident or even a group of people. That's why conservatives call social programs "entitlement programs" or "Welfare", and why progressives tend to call them "social programs" or "safety nets". Even if "entitlement program" is accurate and describes funds to which the public is entitled by paying into them via taxes, the word "entitlement" is a heavily negatively-biased word now, and people who dislike those programs know that. They're also very fond of dog-whistle racism and putting things in quite racist terms without being explicitly racist. Words can be incredibly powerful and very much do influence how we look at people. That's why there's a strong reaction to the N-word, and why no one in his right mind should be acting to try and lessen that effect instead of simply not saying it as a conscientious citizen.
No, none of this addresses any of the worst causes-and-effects of systemic racism in this country, not by a long shot. But not too many are addressing that, anyway. I personally try to vote in ways that will ameliorate it -- I wanted bankers in jail for stealing money from everyone and making subprime loans that affected a much larger percentage of African Americans than whites -- but that's just me, and yet I can still find the energy to say "fuck you" to anyone who imagines they should have every right to say the N-word with impunity. And that's what people are still arguing over, now. Not only are there are tons of shady, racist business practices and laws on the books right now, but then there are people upset because there's a racial epithet they can't say. That's where we are.
Yet, people who do speak up and who do condemn its usage are told "Go complain about REAL racism!" It's never the lovers-of-all-things-N-word who are told, if they really DON'T want to be branded a racist, to stop using racist words and bickering about not being allowed to, and go tackle some of those more important racial causes themselves if they're so adamant about not appearing racist.
And by the way -- the N-word isn't a view. I'm actually pretty offended that anyone would compare liberal views or atheist thought (both things that apply to me) to a disgusting racial epithet. The N-word isn't an idea. It's not a concept. People are offended by liberal thought because they hate discourse and things which challenge their beliefs; same for atheism or secularism.
People are offended by the N-word because it was a word used by racists to degrade black people. They have ample CAUSE to find it offensive because that was its intention. Let's please lay off the WILD false equivalency.
(//http://i1104.photobucket.com/albums/h321/SabrinaTheInkWitch/adc5f1f6.jpg)
HOORAY for
common sense, sensitivity where it matters and excellent word usage!
Quote from: "Princess Megatron"But my issue is, do all of these "elements" bother you more than the racism? Because that certainly seems true of way too many people I've seen talking about this.
It becomes more about "Well, what am *I* allowed to say? What if I lose *my* job?" Is it really that precarious of a situation that you don't know how not to say racist things, really? People get all anxious when they see the "crucifixion" of Paula Deen and start drawing conclusions about their station in life -- seeing her as a direct cautionary tale (of course; if you're white and she's white, you must automatically have tons in common) -- than how her words in a public arena, around her black employees on a regular basis, affect them.
But it IS a precarious situation, because we aren't just talking about losing your livelihood for saying the word nigger. We are talking about an entire culture that has come to look upon the ruination of a person for holding certain views be they racist, sexist, unpatriotic, whatever (and daring to express them in our supposedly open society) as a good thing! It is becoming acceptable that a person's life be wrecked in retribution for an unpopular utterance. Feelings and sensibilities are being valued above the literal, physical well being of people.
And just to drive this home, because its something I think people who discuss this issue never really allow themselves to think about, some people who lose their jobs CANT GET ANOTHER ONE. Not only is the economy shit right now, making it even harder than normal, but these people lost their jobs over a social blunder which serves as another barrier against employment. We are talking about denying people the ability to put food on the table and keep a roof over their heads because of something they said one time. We are talking about some kids not being able to go to college because the fund was used up trying to stay off the street for 2-3 years while mom or dad were trying to get another job.
This is real fucking shit happening. Real consequences, and devastating ones. Consequences that hit hard not just the person who said the wrong thing, but everyone relying on that person for financial support. All because they said something someone found offensive and society had to have its pound of flesh.
If you want to convince me that this is a rational, reasonable reaction to offense you're going to have to do better than that.
Quote from: "WitchSabrina"She's not in trouble because she "expressed herself". She's in trouble for being fucking racist.
I think there's a Huge difference between being *allowed* to express one's views........... and that *someone* who expresses their views being an asshole racist.
Big. Fuck. Difference.
what is that difference?
lets take Christianity (or islam) and racism.
they're both bullshit.
they're both belief systems responsible for oppression, murder, genocide, etc.
both are groups of people who think they are gods special little snowflake, better than the others.
and both continue to negatively effect our world today. look at how Christians treat gays for example.
I used to hate gays. however because expressing homophobic views in Oklahoma didn't mean your life was ruined, I expressed them, and enjoyed pissing off self righteous liberals.
one day I met a guy who didn't react by throwing a hissy fit (btw, I'm not saying you are, i'm just talking in general here).
he just countered my views with well thought out questions and points.
and he changed my mind.
I can tell you now, the only reason I'm a liberal atheist today is because my views were challenged by debate and not by fear of expressing them.
when I encounter a racist, I challenge them. I ask them questions like "why do you think whites are better" (or blacks) I point out good examples and bad in each race, etc.
try to get them to rethink their views.
thats how it should be done.
racists aren't monsters. they're people, like you and me, who happen to have a stupid belief, that needs to be challenged for their own sake and for all of our sakes. same as with other bullshit beliefs that cause harm, like that vaccines are bad, or that climate change isn't real, or that being gay is a choice.
you can't change peoples mind with fear and oppression. that simply causes the beliefs to go underground. no it needs to be in the light so they can see why they're wrong, and join our side.
Responding to someone's racism isn't fear nor oppression. If they weren't pricks to start with there,d be nothing to respond to.
If you are a public figure, or just a representative of any organization, and you promote any views of bigotry (be it racism, homophobia, whatever) that your organization is against and/or makes your organization look bad, your boss has grounds to fire you. That is how it works. If you have a problem with that take it up with the business owners that care about their companies' reputations.
I don't see yall getting upset if she had made anti-atheist or anti-gay slurs and the company sacked her, so why do anti-black slurs get a pass?
That said, it was multiple allegations besides just the use of the N-word that put her in a bad light.
Quote from: "WitchSabrina"Responding to someone's racism isn't fear nor oppression. If they weren't pricks to start with there,d be nothing to respond to.
I had neighbors when I lived in Ada who referred to blacks as niggers and asians as gooks, and mexicans as beaners.
but they also helped me out when I needed it. clearly not the act fo evil monsters. racists like anybody else are not one dimensional characters. These neighbors had very wrong beliefs but they also had good ones too like helping out neighbors.
That said, there is a difference between responding to a racists beliefs, say with the socratic method, and debate, vs screaming obscenities at them, suing them or costing them their jobs, and seeing them as evil one dimensional characters.
when I was a kid I used the phrase "indian giver." one day somebody set me straight on why thats a bad thing to say, and I stopped. now imagine if instead I had said it on the job and lost it, and wound up homeless, instead of somebody simply explaining to me why thats a bad phrase.
There's a difference between reacting to and overreacting to something.
I can see it now. one day I get lucky and become a folk musician super star.
then it comes out that as a kid I sad words like faggot, indian givers, got gyped etc and then I will be forever doomed for all times.
Even if I admit its wrong and apologize profusely, over and over, it won't matter.
because thats how we do it in the land of the free! LOL
Quote from: "Shiranu"If you are a public figure, or just a representative of any organization, and you promote any views of bigotry (be it racism, homophobia, whatever) that your organization is against and/or makes your organization look bad, your boss has grounds to fire you. That is how it works. If you have a problem with that take it up with the business owners that care about their companies' reputations.
I don't see yall getting upset if she had made anti-atheist or anti-gay slurs and the company sacked her, so why do anti-black slurs get a pass?
That said, it was multiple allegations besides just the use of the N-word that put her in a bad light.
She wasn't promoting racism. it just came out that in the past she said racist things in private. if she was on her cook show saying bad things about blacks, I'd see it differently.
not to mention as I've said before, she supported Obama, and likes Oprah so its not as simple as "yep she's in the klan, ban her for life"
what about assholes like Hannity who every night promote racist views? why isn't his ass being shitcanned?
now I'll say she ain't too bright by some of the shit she's said, but take a look at this video.
apparently she donates to black groups, supports Obama and has a black guy thats like her son. so even if she still harbors some racist attitudes under the surface, clearly she's working on them and isn't the grand dragon, people think she is.
[youtube:1zjzqssb]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gb5HDsympiE[/youtube:1zjzqssb]
Quote from: "Nonsensei"Quote from: "Princess Megatron"But my issue is, do all of these "elements" bother you more than the racism? Because that certainly seems true of way too many people I've seen talking about this.
It becomes more about "Well, what am *I* allowed to say? What if I lose *my* job?" Is it really that precarious of a situation that you don't know how not to say racist things, really? People get all anxious when they see the "crucifixion" of Paula Deen and start drawing conclusions about their station in life -- seeing her as a direct cautionary tale (of course; if you're white and she's white, you must automatically have tons in common) -- than how her words in a public arena, around her black employees on a regular basis, affect them.
But it IS a precarious situation, because we aren't just talking about losing your livelihood for saying the word nigger. We are talking about an entire culture that has come to look upon the ruination of a person for holding certain views be they racist, sexist, unpatriotic, whatever (and daring to express them in our supposedly open society) as a good thing! It is becoming acceptable that a person's life be wrecked in retribution for an unpopular utterance. Feelings and sensibilities are being valued above the literal, physical well being of people.
And just to drive this home, because its something I think people who discuss this issue never really allow themselves to think about, some people who lose their jobs CANT GET ANOTHER ONE. Not only is the economy shit right now, making it even harder than normal, but these people lost their jobs over a social blunder which serves as another barrier against employment. We are talking about denying people the ability to put food on the table and keep a roof over their heads because of something they said one time. We are talking about some kids not being able to go to college because the fund was used up trying to stay off the street for 2-3 years while mom or dad were trying to get another job.
This is real fucking shit happening. Real consequences, and devastating ones. Consequences that hit hard not just the person who said the wrong thing, but everyone relying on that person for financial support. All because they said something someone found offensive and society had to have its pound of flesh.
If you want to convince me that this is a rational, reasonable reaction to offense you're going to have to do better than that.
So she should get a pass for uttering a bad word and let's just sweep that paying white employees More than black under the rug. We should just say "oh well....she doesn't mean anything by that" when she wants to promote parties where only whites are guests and only blacks are the servers.... and it's just fine for her to call one of her black employees "my little monkey"????? That's all just fine in your book? It's not fine in my opinion. But hey.... no biggie..... just my opinion. I'll keep explaining this bullshit attitude to my grandkids forever. We'd not Paula to not kill us all with butter and get filthy rich doing so. Sure. Why not?
Am I literally just crazy for thinking it shouldn't be that hard not to say the N-word?
Again, please tell me how more or less going out of your way to say an offensive racial slur (it's not like people are being fired for accidentally saying a common word like "chair" in a racist way) is any different from cursing your boss out -- an act for which most people wouldn't disagree that it's reasonable for someone to be fired.
If you honestly can't restrain yourself in either situation, I can't feel much sympathy for you.
Quote from: "Princess Megatron"Am I literally just crazy for thinking it shouldn't be that hard not to say the N-word?
Again, please tell me how more or less going out of your way to say an offensive racial slur (it's not like people are being fired for accidentally saying a common word like "chair" in a racist way) is any different from cursing your boss out -- an act for which most people wouldn't disagree that it's reasonable for someone to be fired.
If you honestly can't restrain yourself in either situation, I can't feel much sympathy for you.
Thank you. It is 2013 is it not?
Quote from: "WitchSabrina"So she should get a pass for uttering a bad word
in private? yes absolutely. if she was on her show saying nigger, I'd feel differently.
Quoteand let's just sweep that paying white employees More than black under the rug.
no if these allegations turn out to be true, then we can deal with that then. if I'm not mistaken, its still in court. this means she's only accused of that. let the facts bear themselves out in court and a verdict be rendered before handing down any sentences.
being penalized for merely being accused of a crime, is a very bad precedent. If she's guilty of that, then she must pay for it. but only if she is deemed guilty by the court.
QuoteWe should just say "oh well....she doesn't mean anything by that" when she wants to promote parties where only whites are guests and only blacks are the servers.... and it's just fine for her to call one of her black employees "my little monkey"????? That's all just fine in your book?
now where did I say that? quote me. I've clearly said that racist views are bullshit, harmful and should be challenged.
She blubbering to Oprah will be soooo phoney. So very phoney. But Oprah will be gracious and maybe smack her back in the blue room.
Wow its really hard to get through to you two. Let me see if I can be as concise as possible.
Peoples lives getting ruined over something they once said is WRONG.
Quote from: "Princess Megatron"Am I literally just crazy for thinking it shouldn't be that hard not to say the N-word?
from my understanding she said it in the 80's. and in private no less. She wasn't on her show last week talking about jigaboos.
I should say for the record that I do not think its right to call black people niggers.
just in case anybody gets the idea I think otherwise. I've never made the case that was alright, but since apparently I'm being taken as saying racist views are just fine, I want this cleared up, now.
racist views must be challenged. are we all clear on that?
QuoteQuoteAgain, please tell me how more or less going out of your way to say an offensive racial slur (it's not like people are being fired for accidentally saying a common word like "chair" in a racist way) is any different from cursing your boss out -- an act for which most people wouldn't disagree that it's reasonable for someone to be fired.
If you honestly can't restrain yourself in either situation, I can't feel much sympathy for you.
let me ask a question. how do you hope to change racists minds, if they simply learn to hide them for fear of things like losing their jobs and simply express those views in secret or using code words?
as opposed to having their views dissected by debate to show them clearly how dumb they are?
nearly 30 years ago I was a proponent of using the word to the point of boredom, where it would be used to the point that it would lose any weight. Now certainly not due to my feeble attempts, it seems the black community decided rather en mass to do just that, but I am sure my opinion was not of any consequence.
But here we are and nigger means nothing to the black community when said by blacks, it pisses off white people who hear blacks say it, many blacks petition for the ban of the word in both communities (to little avail), and we are all familiar with the "there's blacks and then there's niggers" that comes from both communities. I really await the day when the word does become more of a compliment. I think most of us would laugh if say, Magic Johnson commented during the NBA championship when Lebron did some of HIS magic, "look at that nigger", as a damn sure sign of respect. And let's face it, Billy Bob from backfuck Texas says nigger and nobody gives a shit what that retard says, spit the word out of the mouth of a wealthy and influential white person...oh lawdy....
I think it bears mentioning, before we go any further, that the whole issue came up because of a lawsuit she's currently got against her for recent racially insensitive remarks and harassment against her employees -- not something she said in the 80s, but where she admitted using it occasionally in racial jokes, and used it to describe what wedding accommodations she wanted in 2007 for her brother's wedding. She flat out said it was possible to use the word "not in a mean way".
Not only did she admit to saying it, but she went on to JUSTIFY it.
As for "ruination", stop being melodramatic. Nobody is ruined. She lost endorsement deals. She's already a millionaire. And none of the deals she lost were a matter of policy, but of her sponsors' right to associate themselves with a public figure who justifies her use of racial slurs. You're taking this out of the circumstances at hand and trying to sweepingly apply it to every average Joe.
Which, in that case, my question STILL stands: if there are circumstances where an employees' speech can reasonably get them fired from somewhere (cursing, being rude to customers/coworkers, insubordination), why shouldn't using racial slurs apply to that?
As for changing minds . . . I'm really tired of this line of thinking that implies that people with ridiculous ideas need to be coddled with the hope that he'll eventually "come around". I disagree that we somehow need to be stoic and patient with racists (IN 2013 BY NOW, OMG) in the hopes that they'll see how great black people are and then like them. That implies that blacks who become upset when people call them offensive racial slurs are somehow in the wrong, or "overreacting", so that they need not to in order to prove that they're somehow okay. I'm sorry, they're human beings, and they're reacting just how they should react -- offended at being dehumanized.
No, I'd rather send the message that racism is wrong by showing that we care enough about people of different races to absolutely call that bullshit out when it happens. Absolutely I care about their feelings a shitload more than Racist Bob's feelings about being called out on it.
Quotethink it bears mentioning, before we go any further, that the whole issue came up because of a lawsuit she's currently got against her for recent racially insensitive remarks and harassment against her employees -- not something she said in the 80s, but where she admitted using it occasionally in racial jokes, and used it to describe what wedding accommodations she wanted in 2007 for her brother's wedding. She flat out said it was possible to use the word "not in a mean way".
Not only did she admit to saying it, but she went on to JUSTIFY it.
Thank you.
Quote from: "Princess Megatron"I think it bears mentioning, before we go any further, that the whole issue came up because of a lawsuit she's currently got against her for recent racially insensitive remarks and harassment against her employees -- not something she said in the 80s, but where she admitted using it occasionally in racial jokes, and used it to describe what wedding accommodations she wanted in 2007 for her brother's wedding. She flat out said it was possible to use the word "not in a mean way".
Not only did she admit to saying it, but she went on to JUSTIFY it.
upon the courts verdict I'll have views based on that. now if she thinks its cool to call black people niggers, I'd certainly argue with her about that if I was with her.
QuoteAs for "ruination", stop being melodramatic. Nobody is ruined. She lost endorsement deals. She's already a millionaire. And none of the deals she lost were a matter of policy, but of her sponsors' right to associate themselves with a public figure who justifies her use of racial slurs. You're taking this out of the circumstances at hand and trying to sweepingly apply it to every average Joe.
I know this is more directed at nonsensei, but I think he was referring to regular joes more so than her. yeah she's rich. she'll do fine if she never lands another gig.
QuoteWhich, in that case, my question STILL stands: if there are circumstances where an employees' speech can reasonably get them fired from somewhere (cursing, being rude to customers/coworkers, insubordination), why shouldn't using racial slurs apply to that?
on the job? yeah. in private? no.
if it turns out she she is deemed guilty by the court for on the job racial discrimination and harassment, she must pay for it.
what she said off the clock is her business. if you go on facebook and bitch about your boss, you shouldn't get fired for that. people do and its not right. I'd say same goes for other stuff too.
QuoteAs for changing minds . . . I'm really tired of this line of thinking that implies that people with ridiculous ideas need to be coddled with the hope that he'll eventually "come around". I disagree that we somehow need to be stoic and patient with racists (IN 2013 BY NOW, OMG) in the hopes that they'll see how great black people are and then like them. That implies that blacks who become upset when people call them offensive racial slurs are somehow in the wrong, or "overreacting", so that they need not to in order to prove that they're somehow okay. I'm sorry, they're human beings, and they're reacting just how they should react -- offended at being dehumanized.
No, I'd rather send the message that racism is wrong by showing that we care enough about people of different races to absolutely call that bullshit out when it happens. Absolutely I care about their feelings a shitload more than Racist Bob's feelings about being called out on it.
who said anything about coddling them? rip their beliefs apart. show them why they're wrong. I'm all for that. how else will you change their minds? making them afraid won't do it. they'll just start doing what many in the GOP do now. how does that help?
Quotewhat she said off the clock is her business. if you go on facebook and bitch about your boss, you shouldn't get fired for that. people do and its not right. I'd say same goes for other stuff too.
If you are a spokesman (woman) for an organization, you are NEVER off the clock. She IS one of the biggest face's of (Food TV?) and thus is always representing her company, be she at the set or out in the public.
She also did not bad mouth her boss, she used a derogatory term that alienates a very large number of customers, as well as being accused of racial harassment at work.
And I'll say it again...
QuoteIf you are a public figure, or just a representative of any organization, and you promote any views of bigotry (be it racism, homophobia, whatever) that your organization is against and/or makes your organization look bad, your boss has grounds to fire you. That is how it works. If you have a problem with that take it up with the business owners that care about their companies' reputations.
I don't see yall getting upset if she had made anti-atheist or anti-gay slurs and the company sacked her, so why do anti-black slurs get a pass?
She DID promote it though in that she JUSTIFIED her saying of them. She didn't say what she did wrong, she didn't say she won't do it again... she just said, "I'm sorry for what I did. Forgive me." and tried to justify it. That is saying it is acceptable to say it.
Damn right im referring to regular joes. I dont give a shit about Paula Deen. She doesn't depend on an income to live day to day like the other 99% of us.
Quote from: "Nonsensei"Damn right im referring to regular joes. I dont give a shit about Paula Deen. She doesn't depend on an income to live day to day like the other 99% of us.
And your average Joe will most likely get a warning if he is throwing racist slurs around off-duty and allegedly racially harass coworkers. If you worked where I did, you might get a promotion.
The reason the hammer is coming down so hard on her is because she is a PUBLIC FIGURE and a SPOKESWOMAN. These people live in a different world with different sets of rules.
That said, if you are being accused of racial harassment and admitting you made racial slurs, and it has become a public news event, then I would expect any company to at the least suspend you. That is simply the way business works; if she was being accused of homophobic harassment towards gay coworkers and using gay slurs, or if she was harassing atheists and saying, "Atheists will burn in hell!", would you be so vocally against her being suspended/fired? I highly doubt it.
Quote from: "Shiranu"Quotewhat she said off the clock is her business. if you go on facebook and bitch about your boss, you shouldn't get fired for that. people do and its not right. I'd say same goes for other stuff too.
If you are a spokesman (woman) for an organization, you are NEVER off the clock. She IS one of the biggest face's of (Food TV?) and thus is always representing her company, be she at the set or out in the public.
that could be said of anybody really. I was arguing with a family member about people getting fired for stuff they say on facebook, and got a similar line. you represent your company 24/7. I find such a notion very frightening in the so called land of the free.
QuoteShe also did not bad mouth her boss, she used a derogatory term that alienates a very large number of customers, as well as being accused of racial harassment at work.
you and I both agree that racist is worse than bitching about the boss. that wasn't the point I was driving at though.
I believe what people say in private should not effect their jobs. we live in a society where more and more, this isn't the case, and its not just racists or public figures either. you tell a blonde joke on facebook and the wrong person reads it, you're fucked. same goes if you happen to have pictures of you partying, and certain bosses come across it.
This frightens me. for me this isn't even about paula deen. its about a much bigger problem.
QuoteAnd I'll say it again...
QuoteIf you are a public figure, or just a representative of any organization, and you promote any views of bigotry (be it racism, homophobia, whatever) that your organization is against and/or makes your organization look bad, your boss has grounds to fire you. That is how it works. If you have a problem with that take it up with the business owners that care about their companies' reputations.
I don't see yall getting upset if she had made anti-atheist or anti-gay slurs and the company sacked her, so why do anti-black slurs get a pass?
She DID promote it though in that she JUSTIFIED her saying of them. She didn't say what she did wrong, she didn't say she won't do it again... she just said, "I'm sorry for what I did. Forgive me." and tried to justify it. That is saying it is acceptable to say it.
I haven't seen her saying its okay to call black people niggers. can you show me a link for that? I'm not gonna say you're wrong or right yet on this because for all I know she did. and if she did, then the firing would make more sense, though as I've said this lady confuses me. why did a racist support Obama's election? but then why would a non racist call people niggers? I am flummoxed.
She's worth 16 million dollars. Not exactly feelin' her pain.
[youtube:1vdvgn2q]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsiTNlBGI0I[/youtube:1vdvgn2q]
Oh, my poor ancestor... he didn't know how to deal with life after slavery was abolished! Feel bad for him!
The South is less racist because blacks were a part of our history... right.
So when she goes out in interviews to try to show how not racist she is, and she continues to prove how racist she is... that is perfectly acceptable as well?
Guy fieri is supposedly anti Gay. Meh. celebrity chefs probably run the gamut of attitudes, just like the rest of humanity. As far as I'm concerned, if you took every celebrity chef alive, threw in every movie critic, food critic, wine connoisseur, fashion critic and lifestyle critic on the planet and threw them in the mouth of a volcano, the world would somehow stumble on without them.
@Shiranu: LOL no. its not okay. once again where have I said that? I say racism is harmful and should be challenged and that means I think its "perfectly acceptable"? really?
now this interview being talked about in the clip you provided is cringe worthy. I've seen the interview. she isn't justifying saying nigger, nor slavery from what I've seen. in fact she said its good slavery ended but her grandpa couldn't deal with the changes.
What made me cringe was how she went on and on about how black her friend was and saying shit like, damn can't see with that black board behind you.
I'm betting she's got at least some racism going on, even if she's unaware of it.
She reminds me of many in my own family. except she's better because at least she supported Obama. I've got family that don't just harbor some racism but are just blatant unapologetic racists.
as for all these new allegations, they are allegations, not convictions. they could all be true and if so, may she pay dearly. but they also could be lots of people piling on trying to cash in on her wealth, seeing blood in the water.
I don't know. We'll have to see how it plays out in court.
Quote from: "Princess Megatron"I think it bears mentioning, before we go any further, that the whole issue came up because of a lawsuit she's currently got against her for recent racially insensitive remarks and harassment against her employees -- not something she said in the 80s, but where she admitted using it occasionally in racial jokes, and used it to describe what wedding accommodations she wanted in 2007 for her brother's wedding. She flat out said it was possible to use the word "not in a mean way".
Not only did she admit to saying it, but she went on to JUSTIFY it.
As for "ruination", stop being melodramatic. Nobody is ruined. She lost endorsement deals. She's already a millionaire. And none of the deals she lost were a matter of policy, but of her sponsors' right to associate themselves with a public figure who justifies her use of racial slurs. You're taking this out of the circumstances at hand and trying to sweepingly apply it to every average Joe.
Which, in that case, my question STILL stands: if there are circumstances where an employees' speech can reasonably get them fired from somewhere (cursing, being rude to customers/coworkers, insubordination), why shouldn't using racial slurs apply to that?
As for changing minds . . . I'm really tired of this line of thinking that implies that people with ridiculous ideas need to be coddled with the hope that he'll eventually "come around". I disagree that we somehow need to be stoic and patient with racists (IN 2013 BY NOW, OMG) in the hopes that they'll see how great black people are and then like them. That implies that blacks who become upset when people call them offensive racial slurs are somehow in the wrong, or "overreacting", so that they need not to in order to prove that they're somehow okay. I'm sorry, they're human beings, and they're reacting just how they should react -- offended at being dehumanized.
No, I'd rather send the message that racism is wrong by showing that we care enough about people of different races to absolutely call that bullshit out when it happens. Absolutely I care about their feelings a shitload more than Racist Bob's feelings about being called out on it.
Excellent post #3 (or is it 4 or 5?)
Well said you. Yes, Paula Deen has made a TON of money........ I don't feel the least bit sorry for her as in 'she's ruined'. She's not ruined. She may loose some of her cushy advertisers and maybe some steam in public.
I posted some (updated) articles a page or so back if people are interested in what her employees or former employees have to say.
Her cookbooks and recipes should be banned as health hazards anyway.
I get the feeling that hillbillyatheist is the only person thinking rationally in this thread, and everyone else is posting through a cloud of rage because someone used the word nigger and we aren't tar and feathering them like a lynch-mob.
No tar and feathering required. Just batter dip her and fry her in a pan. k?
Racism is a very sensitive issue for me right now.........dealing with it and trying to explain to a 7 yr old why people are creeps has ALL my buttons going. I never claimed to be rational regarding this particular topic.
And I happen to think that getting emotional at times gives us the push we need to make changes. What? Gods forbid any of us get heated over something or stand our ground when it matters. Fuck that.
Y'all can be rational day in and day out........ but not all of us are. Nor do we apologize for it.
My hot buttons are:
gay rights
racism
women's issues
mistreated soldiers
(pretty much in that order)
on those topics I reserve the right to get as in-you-face emotional as I care to.
There should be SOMETHING that comes with this much arthritis and righteous indignation is one of them.
:Hangman: :rolleyes: :shock: :rollin:
I'm not going to deny you the option of being "in-your-face-emotional", I'm just pointing out that it usually makes the opposite of what you want happen. You won't solve anything; you'll only make it worse.
Quote from: "Plu"I'm not going to deny you the option of being "in-your-face-emotional", I'm just pointing out that it usually makes the opposite of what you want happen. You won't solve anything; you'll only make it worse.
Not really. You watch. People getting upset out there and responding to Paula Deen's bullshit has put her IN the frying pan. Had people been more lax about it - there'd be nothing in the news and we'd be carrying on as usual. She'd be quietly racist and treating her employees like shit. No.
And the MORE people that say "NO that's NOT ok" has her on the hot seat......the more public review and "No s" this gets the more OTHER people (even everyday people) come to realize that this sort of thing must die.
What IF nothing had been done or said about my granddaughter being called a nigger? What if WE - her family - had just quietly done and said nothing? Would the Other students in her class learn that this is not ok?
They're not going to learn better at home. Where do you think they learned this to start with?
No. Something society has every right to respond to and say 'no'. Racism is one of them. Public pressure is the ONLY way to deal with things like this.
Do we not public outcry when priests abuse little boys? Yes we do. Should we keep that all hush-hush and quiet? Do we ruin their careers?
wtf?
Never discount the power of the emotive button. Sometimes it can even win elections.
The magic question is: "Did you teach those kids that being racist is not ok, or did you teach those kids they shouldn't tell anyone they're racist?".
When you give an emotional outburst to someone for saying something, their automatic response is "I shouldn't say that to this person, they crazy." It's not "Damn, this person who is exploding in my face is right, I'm a terrible person."
That's the risk of emotional outbursts. You don't change thought patterns, only outwards behaviour. All you do, is push it away.
Also, case in point in how you're not helping but only making things worse: you still think the opposite of "emotional explosion" is "do nothing at all". You are alienating the people who are effectively on your side because you're being so emotional that you're thinking in black and white, and thinking anything except being emotional means you do nothing or condone this behaviour. And you keep thinking that, even with multiple people continuously trying to point out that they're on your side, they just think your approach isn't accomplishing what you're trying to accomplish.
(You're even having me wonder why I'm pointing this out, because you're too emotional to realise I'm only trying to help you deal with the very problem you're having, that I also consider a major problem, and want to get rid of. You are being your own worst enemy, in a way.)
no - I do realize you are trying to help.
There have been several *sessions* by the teacher and by the priniciple talking to all the kids of the school - not just her class - films shown, books read, etc to prove why racism is wrong.
I do think if there were other kids who have been raised racist that at least at school they've had an opportunity to learn that That is wrong.
A lot has been done.
My point is.............. nothing would have been done if we'd just remained quiet about it.
And no - I was never emotional at the school, with teachers nor the principle. When it was my turn to speak about what happened to my grandchild I spoke clearly and with purpose. I'm not an idiot. I DO understand how speaking in public settings makes us look to others.
I DO, however, allow myself to be emotional here on this forum - where I am safe, amongst friends to express my angst at stupidity. It's one of the reasons I joined here. If you - or others - want to always appear intellectuals who only, always speak rationally - more power to you. I'm not here to prove how rational I can be. Been there. Done that. I've already put in my years on the internet being all intellectual and rational and shit.
If others aren't moved emotionally on the subject of racism - then it's just never climbed up their ass and ruined their day. And that's fine. No one has to understand how painful this can be.
Maybe we could stop lecturing ME and get back to the actual subject?
just so nobody gets the wrong idea speaking for me I mean no offense or attack to anybody in this thread. I welcome contrasting view points. without it debate is impossible. in fact thats the point of this post.
I've seen both the hurt racism causes, and the hurt false accusations and lynch mobs causes.
I also am a walking testimony to plu's remark about teaching people not to be racist vs not to let it be known they're racists.
as I've said, as a kid and even a young adult I was very anti-gay. I thought pro-choice people just got off killing babies, and other views I had that pissed off feminists, NAACP supporters etc.
most liberals I encountered would simply fly into a RAGE at my comments. Like the one professor who ranted and screamed and jumped like mad man when I compared the NAACP to communists.
Their reaction was always "how DARE you say that!" instead "hey you're wrong and here's why"
I just walked off smug I was right and he got mad because he didn't have any good arguments.
Then one day I met my sociology professor. we got into arguments in class that spilled out into him taking me to dinner and us continuing to argue about all kinds of shit. He never attacked me for saying things, just just demolished my arguments one by one.
He and he alone is why I'm a liberal today. and I still remember the day I realized I was now a liberal. oh god the pain, the cognitive dissonance! I'm one of THOSE! I swore college would not brainwash me into the cult of liberalism. but hey here I am, brain nice and clean baby!
all because one person chose to simply challenge my views rather than just fly off the handle with rage.
had I not met him, had I not been allowed to voice my conservative views out of fear of peoples emotional reactions, I'd still be proud of voting for bush in 2000 instead of ashamed.
I say NO! its time people be allowed, nay REQUIRED to say what they really think, and then have it out in debates, with absolutely NO topic off limits.
no more "how dare you say that" and instead we say, Hey, here's why you're wrong"
Who's with me?
oh and back to Paula Deen, two things, her food shouldn't be banned. If our nanny government ever gets to telling me I can't have things like fried chicken, I will revolt.
secondly its my view that she harbors some racism even if unwittingly as many old white people do, but she shouldn't lose her show over allegations that have yet to reach a verdict, or things she said in private, especially if it was years ago.
Now I don't feel sorry for her because she's rich, but I do see a trend that effects all of us. people are often too afraid to speak what they really think because they are afraid of things like losing their jobs. This stifles potential debates and the chance to change their minds the way my sociology professor changed mine.
oh and then there's the plenty of times where the lynch mob and trial by media just turn out wrong like the duke lacrosse boys. Like I said I hope to god I never get famous. heaven help me if I have some gaffe (like slip and say (cotton pickin') or admit i hate black jelly beans or something from my past is drug up, or I get falsely accused and then the press makes heyday out of it and the whole nation thinks I'm just aching to "hang them niggers in a tree", and that all my bedsheets come with eye holes.
People are dropping her like a hot rock. Caesar's Entertainment, Food Network, Smithfield Foods. QVC, Sears and Random House are "monitoring the Situation". Stupid. 16 million clams and at her age (65), just retire and go sit on her yacht. She sells out her properties and settles the lawsuit, she'll still probably be worth even more. No sympathy here.
Quote from: "stromboli"People are dropping her like a hot rock.
Good. I don't give a damn what era you were born in, or whatever the old people say in an attempt to validate their words. It's virtually impossible in this day and age to not know that what she said was fucked up. "Oh, I didn't mean anything bad by it!" Bitch, you can't unapologetically call black people "niggers" or use them as pretend dress-up slaves and think we're all going to believe it was just a misunderstanding. You're racist. And yes, you can still be racist and have black friends.
Quote from: "Plu"I get the feeling that hillbillyatheist is the only person thinking rationally in this thread, and everyone else is posting through a cloud of rage because someone used the word nigger and we aren't tar and feathering them like a lynch-mob.
Actually, I couldn't care less if she said it (Insofar as my argument goes). I am simply saying from an employer's point of view she had to go.
Just because you disagree with someone doesn't make them irrational.
Well okay, maybe two. I probably missed your post in the discussion between a few others.
Sorry this took so long HBA, had slipped my mind.
//http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/gossip/paula-deen-admits-racist-testimony-report-article-1.1377309
In response to using the N-word in jokes...
Quote"That's kind of hard," Deen said. "Most jokes are about Jewish people, rednecks, black folks ... They usually target, though, a group. Gays or straights, black, redneck, you know, I just don't know — I just don't know what to say. I can't, myself, determine what offends another person."
Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainmen ... z2XMzSpzeS (http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/gossip/paula-deen-admits-racist-testimony-report-article-1.1377309#ixzz2XMzSpzeS)
She also on The Today Show I believe went on to say that she isn't even sure if the N-word is offensive since they use it...
//http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/2013/06/26/paula-deen-unsure-if-black-people-are-offended-n-word-150128
QuoteWhen Lauer told Deen that she must realize that black people are offended by the racial slur n****r, she explained that she had heard cooks use the term in the kitchen, so she was unsure.
Read more at http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.c ... ord-150128 (http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/2013/06/26/paula-deen-unsure-if-black-people-are-offended-n-word-150128)
Finally, she says she has only used it once... when she was held at gunpoint (no bullshit, its in the last bit). However as show above and in her first statements when this story broke that she used it more than once.
She is lying through her teeth and she is trying to manipulate anyone who would have any sympathy for this poor old crying Southern woman. To deviate from my employers have the right to fire her, I hope she loses all her endorsements and jobs just because she is a dishonest bitch.
I think she is racist, at least to a dagree. i don't think she cuts holes in her bedsheets though. as for racist jokes, hell, they have that shit on family guy.
That said though, not realizing blacks don't like to be called niggers, is pretty asinine.
I don't have sympathy for her specifically because she'll walk away with millions even if she loses all her business.
but that said, I don't believe people should be punished for what they say. they should be argued with. you may change their minds or maybe the minds of other people listening.
that isn't to say folks don't have a right to boycott her or that the companies aren't wise to drop her so they don't get caught in the shit, but that ain't how I operate and I don't like it that society operates this way.
and it ain't just for racists. its like when Bill Maher got fired from ABC for making what I think was a legit point about terrorists or the way the Dixie chicks got treated after slamming Bush.
I'm tried of society saying "you shouldn't say that" instead of simply expressing why they think the person is wrong and having a debate.
Quotethat isn't to say folks don't have a right to boycott her or that the companies aren't wise to drop her so they don't get caught in the shit, but that ain't how I operate and I don't like it that society operates this way.
You insult the customers, your boss has a right to fire you. Would you prefer to buy stuff at place that makes fun of that makes derogatory terms about Southerners or any other group you identify with or would you prefer to shop at a place that doesn't?
That's not society, that is simply business. The customer is always right and the customer is always a valuable member of society who we love and respect.
Quote from: "Shiranu"Quotethat isn't to say folks don't have a right to boycott her or that the companies aren't wise to drop her so they don't get caught in the shit, but that ain't how I operate and I don't like it that society operates this way.
You insult the customers, your boss has a right to fire you. Would you prefer to buy stuff at place that makes fun of that makes derogatory terms about Southerners or any other group you identify with or would you prefer to shop at a place that doesn't?
That's not society, that is simply business. The customer is always right and the customer is always a valuable member of society who we love and respect.
I get it. I'd have fired her too, to protect my own ass. It's also why companies don't like to allow politics and religion at work either. It's also why I'm seriously weighing whether I want to be labeled an atheist liberal musician. alienating Christian and republican customers means less money in my pocket. (there's also the chance I could make up the difference with rabid atheist liberal fans who might not otherwise give a shit) I'm still chewing on that one.
it makes sense.
I just wish we lived in a different world. a world where people could just have it out.
but hey as the old saying goes, wish in one hand and shit in the other and see which fills up faster. LOL
like it or not, this is the reality we face.
Quote from: "hillbillyatheist"(there's also the chance I could make up the difference with rabid atheist liberal fans who might not otherwise give a shit) .
yeah, you can make 12 bucks with that. Good luck.
Quote from: "aitm"Quote from: "hillbillyatheist"(there's also the chance I could make up the difference with rabid atheist liberal fans who might not otherwise give a shit) .
yeah, you can make 12 bucks with that. Good luck.
from liberal atheists?
Quote from: "Smartmarzipan"Quote from: "stromboli"People are dropping her like a hot rock.
Good. I don't give a damn what era you were born in, or whatever the old people say in an attempt to validate their words. It's virtually impossible in this day and age to not know that what she said was fucked up. "Oh, I didn't mean anything bad by it!" Bitch, you can't unapologetically call black people "niggers" or use them as pretend dress-up slaves and think we're all going to believe it was just a misunderstanding. You're racist. And yes, you can still be racist and have black friends.
Oh, Smarzie. Never change.
Quote from: "Shiranu"Writer posted a YouTube video (//http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsiTNlBGI0I)
Oh, my poor ancestor... he didn't know how to deal with life after slavery was abolished! Feel bad for him!
The South is less racist because blacks were a part of our history... right.
So when she goes out in interviews to try to show how not racist she is, and she continues to prove how racist she is... that is perfectly acceptable as well?
Wow. That woman is seriously out of touch with reality.
I'm not flipping out about her racist remarks. She is totally allowed to say whatever she wants. But this isn't just about her using the N word, which some people keep saying. That is really a strawman here.
The issue (And the lawsuit) is that she DISCRIMINATED against black employees, gave them the worst and hardest jobs in her kitchens, and treated them worse than her white employees, as well as using racial slurs, including calling one woman "her little monkey".
Despite people repeatedly pointing out this part of the lawsuit, it keeps going back to she got fired for saying the N word. This is just not the issue at all.
Quote from: "Aroura33"Quote from: "Shiranu"Writer posted a YouTube video (//http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsiTNlBGI0I)
Oh, my poor ancestor... he didn't know how to deal with life after slavery was abolished! Feel bad for him!
The South is less racist because blacks were a part of our history... right.
So when she goes out in interviews to try to show how not racist she is, and she continues to prove how racist she is... that is perfectly acceptable as well?
Wow. That woman is seriously out of touch with reality.
I'm not flipping out about her racist remarks. She is totally allowed to say whatever she wants. But this isn't just about her using the N word, which some people keep saying. That is really a strawman here.
The issue (And the lawsuit) is that she DISCRIMINATED against black employees, gave them the worst and hardest jobs in her kitchens, and treated them worse than her white employees, as well as using racial slurs, including calling one woman "her little monkey".
Despite people repeatedly pointing out this part of the lawsuit, it keeps going back to she got fired for saying the N word. This is just not the issue at all.
True, and I guess I should have addressed that more accurately as well.
Shiranu I am sorry, that part of my comment was not directed at you. I thought your posts, and this video, are really on point.
Quote from: "Aroura33"Shiranu I am sorry, that part of my comment was not directed at you. I thought your posts, and this video, are really on point.
Oh yeah, I didn't think it was. Was just saying I should have been posting that as well.
have any verdicts been made?
if so, and they're guilty as charged, then I'm with you guys, but if it's still being hashed out in court, then they're still allegations.
thats a very bad reason to fire her.
I can understand why they fired her for calling blacks niggers in private in the past and then admitting to that, along with some of these cringe worthy interviews. even if I see it as a disturbing trend that could effect all our free speech and part of a bigger trend that effects us all. (like companies trying to fire Obama voters)
firing somebody because they're accused of something and a verdict hasn't even been reached, is 1000 times worse.
people are not guilty of a crime until it has been proven and a conviction has been made.
anybody can be accused. the Duke Lacrosse boys for instance.
they turned out to be innocent despite the trial by media having them declared guilty from the start.
so no the trial is moot unless a guilty verdict has been reached. At least it should be.
Quotefiring somebody because they're accused of something and a verdict hasn't even been reached, is 1000 times worse.
people are not guilty of a crime until it has been proven and a conviction has been made.
When you have a history of racism, racism charges don't seem that surprising.
And innocent until proven guilty only applies to the law. Even the trial is going to harm your image, and since she is not refuting the claims and infact is making her self look more and more like a racist... again, I see absolutely nothing wrong with dropping her. If she is found innocent, the company lost an employee. If she is found guilty, the company made the right choice.
So the trial very much does matter at this point.
Quote from: "Shiranu"Quotefiring somebody because they're accused of something and a verdict hasn't even been reached, is 1000 times worse.
people are not guilty of a crime until it has been proven and a conviction has been made.
When you have a history of racism, racism charges don't seem that surprising.
And innocent until proven guilty only applies to the law. Even the trial is going to harm your image, and since she is not refuting the claims
actualy she is. She was on the today show, just today to deny her racism, not to mention, fighting in court. if what you say is true, she'd be settling not fighting.
Quoteand infact is making her self look more and more like a racist... again, I see absolutely nothing wrong with dropping her. If she is found innocent, the company lost an employee. If she is found guilty, the company made the right choice.
So the trial very much does matter at this point.
if she's innocent it means we drug her name through the mud on trumped up charges. the fact that she may harbor some lingering racism from her upbringing which she let slip out doesn't justify that at all. let her face judgment over what she's guilty of. no more, no less.
Bill Mahers take. figure it belongs here. He seems kind where I am.
[youtube:38sby7q2]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPI5xJosUEM[/youtube:38sby7q2]
Quoteactualy she is. She was on the today show, just today to deny her racism, not to mention, fighting in court. if what you say is true, she'd be settling not fighting.
The today show clips I posted, where she said she wasn't even sure that word was offensive?
That's not a great defense of, "I'm not a racist! I didn't even know that word offended people!"
Quoteif she's innocent it means we drug her name through the mud on trumped up charges. the fact that she may harbor some lingering racism from her upbringing which she let slip out doesn't justify that at all. let her face judgment over what she's guilty of. no more, no less.
Shit happens. If she wasn't making such an idiot of herself in interviews it wouldn't even be an issue. It WASN'T an issue until she started making all the stupid race related comments. No one even really knew about the lawsuits to begin with.
just in case you might miss it, watch the bill maher clip. I'm kinda with him. actually I agree with everything he said.
I don't think you and I will see eye to eye on this but its nice to know I'm not the only liberal who feels this way. seems most of my fellow liberals all but have pitch forks, tar and feather, ready to go. LOL
So... because some black youth say it, therefor it isn't that bad that she said it?
Or that because it's how she was raised she should have gotten some leniency?
I expect her to have to live by the same rules I do. If I fuck up at work, or do something that harms the companies reputation, then the company is obliged to discipline me in how it deems acceptable. I was raised in a culture as well where saying the N-word was considered the normal... there weren't black people where I grew up so I didn't realize how terrible it actually was. At the store I worked at racial slurs were the norm; our manager was from the country in Tennessee and had no problem making racist jokes at work.
But if I was to start doing any sort of job that had me dealing with black people, I sure as hell wouldn't be doing ANYTHING that would be considered racial profiling or saying, "Yeah, of course I called people n****rs. What about it? I didn't know it was offensive and they call themselves that so whats wrong?"... if I was to do that I would expect the company to sack my ass before I had time to blink. You DO NOT badmouth the customers on-duty (and as a spokesperson you are ALWAYS on duty), you do not racially harass people and then when called on it, you don't just say "Uh yeah I did it. What's even the big deal?".
Just because she came from a different culture doesn't mean she gets a different set of rules from the rest of us. And just because SOME black people say it does not make it acceptable. Do all black's say it? Fuck no, don't act like they do (@Deen).
Again, if she hadn't gone to the press and blown this up we wouldn't even be talking about it.
And again, if she had been using anti-gay slurs and allegedly treating gay employees differently we would expect her to be fired.
And if she had been making anti-atheist remarks and allegedly treating atheist employees differently... we would expect her head on a pike.
So why if she is doing it towards blacks she is just some poor victim, when if these allegations were against gays or women/men or atheists or because of someone's weight or hair colour or because they were liberals or whatever we wouldn't be having this conversation of, "Oh poor her!"?
I just want to reiterate something I said earlier. Food Network has the right not to renew her contract for any reason, or for no reason. For all we know, this is a Charlie Sheen sort of thing, where they have been having problems with her "behind the scenes" for ages, and this was just a great excuse to drop her while looking like good guys about it. Watching her recent antics, I wouldn't be surprised if she's really hard to work with.
Look, the lawsuit has been around a while, that isn't why they dropped her. The N word allegation are also not brand new. What happened is pretty clear, IMO. Paula lost her nerve and made a bunch of embarrassing Youtube videos where she rambled, babbled, apologized, and defended her behavior. She removed one hours after posting it, then posted more hours later. She behaved, and is continuing to behave, in an unstable and embarrassing manor. THIS is what brought the whole thing into the public eye, and why they chose not to renew her. And it is 100% within their rights to do so. This is not new to celebs and those who hire them, nor is it starting us on some slippery slope with freedom of speech. Celebs have their every word and action magnified in the public eye, and they ARE aware of it. She did this to herself, no matter which way you spin it.
Quote from: "Shiranu"So... because some black youth say it, therefor it isn't that bad that she said it?
I didn't say that and i don't think maher did either.
QuoteOr that because it's how she was raised she should have gotten some leniency?
no but it explains where it came from.
QuoteI expect her to have to live by the same rules I do. If I fuck up at work, or do something that harms the companies reputation, then the company is obliged to discipline me in how it deems acceptable. I was raised in a culture as well where saying the N-word was considered the normal... there weren't black people where I grew up so I didn't realize how terrible it actually was. At the store I worked at racial slurs were the norm; our manager was from the country in Tennessee and had no problem making racist jokes at work.
you do know I'm not okay with her calling black people niggers right? and neither is bill maher? I ask because what I take from this is that you think I'm trying to defend her as opposed to simply trying to see this whole issue with reason and not with a lynch mob mentality.
QuoteBut if I was to start doing any sort of job that had me dealing with black people, I sure as hell wouldn't be doing ANYTHING that would be considered racial profiling or saying, "Yeah, of course I called people n****rs. What about it?
LOL she didn't say what about it, unless I'm misremembering the transcript. Also nigger is just a word. calling black people niggers is very wrong. simply typing the word or saying is not. so this silly "n word" and "n****r" is as silly as when people say "the F word. you're still saying it. Its like cunt. calling women a cunt is wrong. saying the word cunt as I am now, isn't.
[youtube:h2yvztwx]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zuLrBLxbLxw[/youtube:h2yvztwx]
QuoteI didn't know it was offensive and they call themselves that so whats wrong?"... if I was to do that I would expect the company to sack my ass before I had time to blink. You DO NOT badmouth the customers on-duty (and as a spokesperson you are ALWAYS on duty), you do not racially harass people and then when called on it, you don't just say "Uh yeah I did it. What's even the big deal?".
first of all she has never to my knowledge said "yeah what's the big deal" upon being called out for racial harassment. we're talking about two things here. her trial which I feel is moot until the verdict is reached, and her admitting to have called a black person a nigger in the past, and other cringe worthy stuff to which she then offers an apology. doesn't quite sound like you're putting it. the way you put it, she's a proud racist saying "fuck yeah I call 'em niggers, what about it, and yes I harass them, so what?"
sorry I haven't seen her say any of that. I've seen her admit she's done it, then offer an apology, insist she doesn't hate anybody, and then somebody drug up an old interview that is cringe worthy but apparently not enough to have been a big deal until this nigger scandal came about.
then there's allegations which have yet to reach a verdict. sorry thats not enough to get me to join a lynch mob.
QuoteJust because she came from a different culture doesn't mean she gets a different set of rules from the rest of us.
who said that? I didn't. This is part of why I dread race topics. I've yet to enter one where words aren't put in my mouth and where by the end people mistakenly think I'm either a racist or racist sympathizer. its quite frustrating.
racism stirs up such rage and emotionalism that its hard to just talk aout these issues without misunderstandings coming up.
to be clear, if anything I'm making a case for free speech of all kinds of stuff. for example the dixie chicks, bill maher being fired from ABC, or obama supporters after he won the election.
QuoteAnd just because SOME black people say it does not make it acceptable. Do all black's say it? Fuck no, don't act like they do (@Deen).
agreed
QuoteAgain, if she hadn't gone to the press and blown this up we wouldn't even be talking about it.
her apology video was the first thing up after the transcript came out. her first interview was today. LOL that other one is old, if I'm not mistaken. it was drug up after the fact because its cringe worthiness connected t this nigger story. its link bait. the press smells blood. you know the saying, if it bleeds it leads.
QuoteAnd again, if she had been using anti-gay slurs and allegedly treating gay employees differently we would expect her to be fired.
And if she had been making anti-atheist remarks and allegedly treating atheist employees differently... we would expect her head on a pike.
So why if she is doing it towards blacks she is just some poor victim, when if these allegations were against gays or women/men or atheists or because of someone's weight or hair colour or because they were liberals or whatever we wouldn't be having this conversation of, "Oh poor her!"?
this is another part where I want to throw my hands up in the air. my reaction would be similar regardless.
take charlie Daniels. he says all kinds of shit about atheists and gays in his blog. I think he's an idiot. I still listen to his music. like I said I see this whole thing differently than you do and I am getting the feeling you and others don't understand where I'm coming from what with the several posts which seem to imply I'm okay with what she's said, and think racism is perfectly acceptable.
Quote from: "Aroura33"I just want to reiterate something I said earlier. Food Network has the right not to renew her contract for any reason, or for no reason. For all we know, this is a Charlie Sheen sort of thing, where they have been having problems with her "behind the scenes" for ages, and this was just a great excuse to drop her while looking like good guys about it. Watching her recent antics, I wouldn't be surprised if she's really hard to work with.
good point.
QuoteLook, the lawsuit has been around a while, that isn't why they dropped her. The N word allegation are also not brand new. What happened is pretty clear, IMO. Paula lost her nerve and made a bunch of embarrassing Youtube videos where she rambled, babbled, apologized, and defended her behavior. She removed one hours after posting it, then posted more hours later. She behaved, and is continuing to behave, in an unstable and embarrassing manor. THIS is what brought the whole thing into the public eye, and why they chose not to renew her. And it is 100% within their rights to do so. This is not new to celebs and those who hire them, nor is it starting us on some slippery slope with freedom of speech. Celebs have their every word and action magnified in the public eye, and they ARE aware of it. She did this to herself, no matter which way you spin it.
I see it as part of a larger trend. I agree everybody is well within their rights to do what they did. I just don't like the fact that too many people react in our society with "how DARE you say that" instead of "you're wrong and here's why"
as I just said in my post above, I listen to charlie Daniel's to this day. I think he's a racist homophobic anti-atheist, teabagger idiot. I read his blogs. I pretty much disagree with him on everything. If I met him, we'd get in a heated argument very fast.
I still listen to his music. same goes for Hank Jr.
QuoteLOL she didn't say what about it, unless I'm misremembering the transcript. Also nigger is just a word. calling black people niggers is very wrong. simply typing the word or saying is not. so this silly "n word" and "n****r" is as silly as when people say "the F word. you're still saying it. Its like cunt. calling women a cunt is wrong. saying the word cunt as I am now, isn't.
I don't say it for the same reason I don't use words like "wop", "sand nigger" (obviously if I don't use it normally...), "Towel head", "cunt", "slut", "queer", etc. ... I find them distasteful. I don't particularly care if people find my way of saying them funny, it ISN'T still saying it. Just like saying crap is fine, shit isn't.
If I had said that growing up, I would have been beaten about an inch to death by my parents. And that was in the South, from a family on a farm in the middle of rural Texas. Being Southern is NOT a justification, it's an excuse.
Edit: Last bit wasn't aimed at you.
Quote from: "Shiranu"obviously if I don't use it normally
:lol: for the record, neither do I.
only in conversations where the word comes up do I use it.
though I like LouisCK's take on it.
Holy fucking shit, if your going to spam at least get your shit together... that was terrible.
Edit: A remark on some absolutely fail-tacular spamming that happened.
spammer deleted and banned.
I think the discussion on this has been great. Not sure anything was solved but the issue is such a large one I don't know if we could really solve anything. Still it's good to visit and share our opinions or ideas.
thanks everyone =D>
I do see now that this particular word sure can bring out strong opinions. Maybe it always has.
PS thankx for getting rid of spam. eeeeks
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/2 ... 18997.html (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/28/paula-deens-new-testament_n_3518997.html)
Based on her wardrobe, I'm guessing she doesn't like Gay people either. :-D
You guys really don't see the inherent racism in the fact that only black people are allowed to say this word, and that it most offensive when white people say it? I'm tired of being charged racist points for my skin tone. My ancestors hail from Italy and my family immigrated to the US well after the civil war. Nobody in my family ever owned slaves, and more to the point no African American alive today has ever been a slave.
But because I happen to be white, apparently I am not allowed to say this word which is only taboo because of a history that neither I nor anyone in my family ever participated in.
Quote from: "Nonsensei"You guys really don't see the inherent racism in the fact that only black people are allowed to say this word, and that it most offensive when white people say it? I'm tired of being charged racist points for my skin tone. My ancestors hail from Italy and my family immigrated to the US well after the civil war. Nobody in my family ever owned slaves, and more to the point no African American alive today has ever been a slave.
But because I happen to be white, apparently I am not allowed to say this word which is only taboo because of a history that neither I nor anyone in my family ever participated in.
The thing that some black people fail to understand is that their adopted use of the word ni66er is more harmful than a thousand Paula Deens. If anyone on this earth should be working to eradicate the word, it is the black population. One need only look at the rate of black-on-black crime and black vs white ratio of penitentiary inmate population to realize that it is blacks themselves who are allowing themselves to be kept down as a whole. How hard is it for people like Paula Deen to continue to look down on blacks when the rates of illiteracy, crime, single or no parent families and rampant poverty are double, triple, or quadruple the rates for any other ethnic/racial group in America?
You know what shuts up people like Paula Deen and truly makes her views archaic and demonized? The true integration of blacks into American society. A 75% plus graduation rate, career ambition and family organization. As long shows like "The First 48" and "Bait Car" are little more than a parade of uneducated, aimless young black men adding to their as-long-as-your-arm rap sheet of prior felonies, it will be very easy for people to let slip the word nigger with a sneer of distaste when talking about blacks as a whole. Like it or not, much of the heavy lifting will have to be done by them to gain equal footing. Until then, it will be all too easy for the Paula Deens of the world to casually consider an entire percentage of our population as somehow beneath her.
Quote from: "Nonsensei"You guys really don't see the inherent racism in the fact that only black people are allowed to say this word, and that it most offensive when white people say it? I'm tired of being charged racist points for my skin tone. My ancestors hail from Italy and my family immigrated to the US well after the civil war. Nobody in my family ever owned slaves, and more to the point no African American alive today has ever been a slave.
But because I happen to be white, apparently I am not allowed to say this word which is only taboo because of a history that neither I nor anyone in my family ever participated in.
No. You're not allowed to say this word because it consigns an entire population to a position lower than you. See my post above. The fact that black people are allowed to say it is equally egregious. I imagine most black people die a little inside each time some young kid casually refers to himself or his mates "Hi less-worth-than-a-white-person guy!". Because that might not be what he means, but it is certainly what he is saying if unwittingly so.
[youtube:497cduto]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_WpS_-hI6w[/youtube:497cduto]
two things. people need to stop confusing uttering the word nigger vs referring to a black person as a nigger. calling a black person a nigger is wrong. simply saying it as I am now, is not.
typing "N word" N***** or ni66er just brings me back to the louis CK clip I posted (its on this page, just scroll up)
Quote from: "hillbillyatheist"two things. people need to stop confusing uttering the word nigger vs referring to a black person as a nigger. calling a black person a nigger is wrong. simply saying it as I am now, is not.
typing "N word" N***** or ni66er just brings me back to the louis CK clip I posted (its on this page, just scroll up)
Sorry, John. I didn't watch the clip nor do I care to. I try not to use the word because in any context, it is simply too historically degrading to casually bandy about. If it was an actual word whose meaning had been skewered by misuse, I would understand. But the word was invented simply to degrade black people and the lower classes, so there is no "generic" use of the word. Therefore, I code it when I can out of deference to those who are stung by it. You can use it however you see fit, but I will not use it wherever possible.
LOL I don't use it causally if thats what you're wondering. only in discussions like these.
I understand your feelings but it makes me wonder. how do you watch films like Roots, or Ghosts of Mississippi? they say nigger in those shows and more.
and yet nobody thinks its wrong or racist. I'm certainly not using it to be racist. its just the topic at hand.
want something that really confuses me, how come the washington redskins can keep that name? redskin is to indians what nigger is the blacks.
yet if the team was called the washington niggers, they'd be a riot. why is nigger worse than redskin? consider how the indians were treated?
I'm not saying its okay to call blacks that because it isn't, but I wonder why its so much more offensive than other racial slurs, or even just slurs in general.
Quote from: "hillbillyatheist"how come the washington redskins can keep that name?
Some have argued the Redskins
should change their name. Much like some have wanted the Cleveland Indians to change their logo/ mascot.
yes but if it was called the washington niggers or even jigaboos, I betcha it wouldn't just be a controversy. that team name would either changed by now or lose all its sponsors.
which gets back to my point, of why nigger is seen as such a worse egregious slur than any of the others even to the point that many liberals who would have no trouble typing the word faggot, wetback redskin, cracker, and gook, would write N***** for nigger because apparently the word is so evil, even saying it at all, is bad. LOL
to me slurring any group of people because of what they look like, or where they came from, or their economic status or gender or sexuality is wrong and hurtful.
however simply uttering a word is just that. And I don't think slurring one group is worse or better than slurring another.
Quote from: "WitchSabrina"http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/28/paula-deens-new-testament_n_3518997.html
Wow, did anyone else read this link Sabrina provided? Her new Cookbook has been canceled by the publishing company, despite preorders making it the #1 preorder book from them! This is some extremely serious backlash, almost every corporation involved with her has dropped her like a hot rock.
Of course the book was called "The New Testament", so I can just imagine the type of people throwing a fit about the cancelation...lol
I remember as a kid saying: eenie meenie miney moe..catch a nigger by the toe. If he hollers let him go.....
Fuck! There goes my walmart contract..
Quote from: "Aroura33"Quote from: "WitchSabrina"http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/28/paula-deens-new-testament_n_3518997.html
Wow, did anyone else read this link Sabrina provided? Her new Cookbook has been canceled by the publishing company, despite preorders making it the #1 preorder book from them! This is some extremely serious backlash, almost every corporation involved with her has dropped her like a hot rock.
Of course the book was called "The New Testament", so I can just imagine the type of people throwing a fit about the cancelation...lol
Considering the Christ-like suffering some folks claims she is enduring, a few might the title is more than adequate...
Quote from: "AllPurposeAtheist"I remember as a kid saying: eenie meenie miney moe..catch a nigger by the toe. If he hollers let him go.....
Fuck! There goes my walmart contract..
Don't worry. You can get another greeter job at Home Depot...
Quote from: "hillbillyatheist"two things. people need to stop confusing uttering the word nigger vs referring to a black person as a nigger. calling a black person a nigger is wrong. simply saying it as I am now, is not.
typing "N word" N***** or ni66er just brings me back to the louis CK clip I posted (its on this page, just scroll up)
Thank you.
I think that if we can't say the word nigger when discussing it, then we're too immature to bother having the discussion.
So because people find a word distasteful and just...dont use it... they are now immature...
*roll*
Quote from: "Shiranu"So because people find a word distasteful and just...dont use it... they are now immature...
*roll*
Yes. Especially if they wish to discuss the word but resort to especially childish shit like "N-word" or "N*****."
And I repeat, if you can't say it, then maybe we shouldn't be discussing it.
Quote from: "the_antithesis"Quote from: "Shiranu"So because people find a word distasteful and just...dont use it... they are now immature...
*roll*
Yes.
We have used it, we just dont feel the need to spell it out every single time. Your argument is therefor invalid. Fail.
LOL! for the record I think its silly to say ""N word" like it is to say "S-E-X" but saying they're too immature to talk about it unless they say it, is a bit much.
I just shrug it off as a goofy hangup.
This thread has been remarkably civil. lets keep it that way. :)