I'm starting a thread for the discussion of Trump's southern border wall.
Didn't want to make 1st post an opinion post, so here we are.
I subscribe to a geographical view of politics, namely that much of what determines a country's political fate is the presence of geographical boundaries like mountains and oceans//seas. For example, the reason why India and China haven't had a serious war is the Himalaya Mountain range separating them. It's also why the borders in Southeast Asia look so weird.
The southern US border doesn't really have such a boundary. The Rio Grande in parts can be fairly easily forded even without rafts and such. Because of this, the idea that the US and Mexico can remain separate nation states in the long term with things being the way they are now is pretty laughable.
IMO there are 3 options
1. Build the wall
2. Annex Mexico, but also build the wall, since even if they get annexed, you'll end up with ~150 million refugees, which no nation can possibly handle.
3. The destruction of the US government and financial system over a few short decades.
My husband and I disagree about the wall. He is all for a wall, doesn't care how much it costs and believes its value is as much symbolic as practical. He is also for a complete ban of all Muslims immigrating from any country, which I disagree with. I think a wall across the entire southern border is a waste of money and an antiquated solution. First of all, I think there needs to be a path to citizenship for undocumented immigrants who can prove they have been in the US for at least two years and have no criminal record. Our government didn't enforce immigration laws, US employers hired them and so Americans are partially responsible for these people establishing lives here. Tracking down all these people and going through the deportation process causes more harm than good. Rather than building a wall I propose we eliminate the reason people illegally immigrate to the US. We need to require all US employers, schools, social service agencies, healthcare providers, landlords and lending agencies to use E-Verify to confirm US citizenship before providing services. This system is already in place and merely needs to be expanded. Employers and agencies caught not verifying citizenship would be fined and penalized. Most people won't illegally immigrate to the US if they can't work, enroll their children in school, rent an apartment, receive medical care for anything that isn't life-threatening or debilitating, or get a driver's license. It is easier and less expensive to hold US companies and agencies to the law, to offer whistle-blower protection for employees who report non-compliance, then track down undocumented immigrants who are evading the law. This plan doesn't target people from any specific country and addresses the problem of people staying after their visa has expired. I believe it would be much less expensive and more effective at curbing illegal immigration than constructing and maintaining a border wall.
Quote from: orcus on July 29, 2018, 08:40:46 PMIMO there are 3 options
1. Build the wall
2. Annex Mexico, but also build the wall, since even if they get annexed, you'll end up with ~150 million refugees, which no nation can possibly handle.
3. The destruction of the US government and financial system over a few short decades.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewis%27s_trilemma
Just out of curiousity, what are our options with Canada?
Quote from: orcus on July 29, 2018, 08:37:16 PM
I'm starting a thread for the discussion of Trump's southern border wall.
Ain't gonna happen, y'all been pooned again and again. You can fool all the people all the time. But things will get interesting with the continuing deterioration in Mexico and places farther south. The first 100 million should settle in New England, please don't overcrowd California. My own area has been a settlement for Micronesia refugees displaced by the nuclear testing in the 1950s. Denver where I used to live had our own little Vietnam.
Canada? Eh? Are you wanting to move north to escape the Latin American hordes? Just learn Spanish, you lazy Anglo you.
The US government is being destroyed as we speak. It no longer serves a useful purpose to the oligarchs.
Not as much pressure with Canada. Although I wouldn't rule out something like in Fallout in case of a world war, where the US seizes their uranium and oil.
QuoteThe US government is being destroyed as we speak. It no longer serves a useful purpose to the oligarchs.
The oligarchy is obsessed with destroying the EU, it also happens to be the only political organization that can and will stand up to multinational corporations. Just look at what a fairly minor privacy regulation did to Facebook's stock price.
The only way to destroy a functioning welfare state such as exists in the EU short of killing everybody is to overload it, for example with a massive migrant influx.
Quote from: orcus on July 29, 2018, 11:17:24 PM
Not as much pressure with Canada. Although I wouldn't rule out something like in Fallout in case of a world war, where the US seizes their uranium and oil.
The oligarchy is obsessed with destroying the EU, it also happens to be the only political organization that can and will stand up to multinational corporations. Just look at what a fairly minor privacy regulation did to Facebook's stock price.
The only way to destroy a functioning welfare state such as exists in the EU short of killing everybody is to overload it, for example with a massive migrant influx.
Plan Red, until 1939, the US war plan for war against the British Empire in general, and against Canada in particular. Look it up on Youtube.
Yes, the ME fracas, and the directing of refugees from African and the ME to Europe ... may have been planned.
Quote from: orcus on July 29, 2018, 11:17:24 PM
Not as much pressure with Canada. Although I wouldn't rule out something like in Fallout in case of a world war, where the US seizes their uranium and oil.
The oligarchy is obsessed with destroying the EU, it also happens to be the only political organization that can and will stand up to multinational corporations. Just look at what a fairly minor privacy regulation did to Facebook's stock price.
The only way to destroy a functioning welfare state such as exists in the EU short of killing everybody is to overload it, for example with a massive migrant influx.
Or, you know, to have an aging population. Too many old retired people that made too little children to replace them in The jobmarket.
Immigration brings iTS own problems, but 'can' aid in that regard.
Illegal immigration is more problematic.
GSOgymrat wrote:QuoteHe is also for a complete ban of all Muslims immigrating from any country, which I disagree with.
Incorrect.
The ban was for 90 days from selected 7 countries: Libya, Sudan, Somalia, Syria, Iraq, Iran, Yemen.
The 90 days have long expired. (Summer of 2017)
However, the media is practicing
appeal to emotion over facts.
The facts:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTXVAqU1OcE
There' a 4th option: Not build a wall, and maintain the status quo, which we have had for almost two centuries with no ill effects.
Quote from: Atheon on July 30, 2018, 03:41:18 AM
There' a 4th option: Not build a wall, and maintain the status quo, which we have had for almost two centuries with no ill effects.
Things have changed dramatically. The status quo is no longer valid.
People feel that they are entitled to move to any country of their choice, and live off the welfare which western countries provide without limits.
Open borders and welfare is a recipe for economic collapse.
You have to provide housing, medical service, schooling, jobs if they are prepared to work, but if you provide welfare there is no need to work, teach them the language, skills necessary to do a job, administration of all this, security, etc.
All cost money. Your taxes. How long is this sustainable?
Quote from: pr126 on July 30, 2018, 03:22:16 AM
GSOgymrat wrote:Incorrect.
The ban was for 90 days from selected 7 countries: Libya, Sudan, Somalia, Syria, Iraq, Iran, Yemen.
The 90 days have long expired. (Summer of 2017)
However, the media is practicing appeal to emotion over facts.
The facts:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTXVAqU1OcE
My husband isn't referring to Trump's ban. He wants all Muslims banned from immigrating to the US.
Quote from: pr126 on July 30, 2018, 04:04:40 AM
Things have changed dramatically. The status quo is no longer valid.
People feel that they are entitled to move to any country of their choice, and live off the welfare which western countries provide without limits.
Open borders and welfare is a recipe for economic collapse.
You know... This of course is just my experience as a social worker and not well executed research, ... But most people that come here, to Belgium, do wish to work and contribute to the welfare and the society. There are three problems in the 'migration subpopulation', however, to which I'll count both migrants and their descendants that were born in Belgium.
First problem is that many higher educated migrants that come here wish to work at the same or a similar level as they did at home. Doctors, lawyers, police officers, teachers, ... Problem is they have to go through a proces of an integration course, have to learn a new language (and dutch isn't an easy one) and then either have to study or work or both. But studying isn't Always allowed, which is a frustration, because it is a drain on the welfare. Having to work as a cleaning lady when you have the qualifications to be a docter and have been in your native country is also frustrating. Some let that stop them, some don't. In either case though, many choose for a 'worse' and unstable and frustrating job because they arrive here, have children they need to support and so on. But there are those that falter, and those are the first minor drain. An additional problem is that many of these parents seem to want their children to make it bigger, and achieve at least the same level they achieved themselves back home. This urge born from frustration has made it so that some children who would be great carpenters or bookies or social workers or the likes get pushed into educations they can't handle. And their parents can't help them at home as much as they'd want, because all the tests are and all the homework is in a language they haven't learned until the age of like 35. Which results in a second drain as you get school-drop outs and the likes.
Becasue these families are placed in a empoverished state for many years, the chances of their children diminish. I actually don't think there is a lot of racism in the jobmarket. Some, sure. But not a lot. But poverty begets poverty and these diminished chances for the children, paired with the high expectations bring the opposite of the desired effect. A lot of the poverty this way goes from one generation to the next, which of course looks for explanations, as they grow up, for why they are born in poverty and quite often die in poverty. Same for the subpopulation of the 'natives' that are born and die in poverty. Both 'natives' and 'immigrant (descendents)' turn to me with the same explenation; they are poor because of racism.
Truth is, they are most often poor because they were raised in a poor Household and it is extremely difficult to escape poverty.
Not impossible.
But hard.
That being said, there are those that migrate here with either no intent to work or with no option to work. A single mom of 7 that doesn't know the language might be activated by the end of a longer process and heavy care, but by then she might work for 6 more years before the age of retirement kicks in. Meaning that the cost-benefit for this one case isn't in order.
However, in such a case, if handled well, we could potentially have 7 more pairs of hands in the welfare state to cary the load, including the mother's load. Rather than 7 hands that need to be carried themselves.
And that's the point, if handled well.
We have to think new strategies for breaking this cycle of poverty.
Those very people who are skilled with professions are needed in their own countries to make those places better.
Those countries cannot progress and develop if the best of their people leave, as this only leaves the useless eaters.
I do understand that the migrants want a better life, but this is not helping the “developing†countries if they all leave.
Bit of a conundrum.
The migrants in this case are at a disadvantage in their new countries and not helping their old counrties by abandoning it.
A lose lose situation. That’s of course if they are all skilled professionals as you have stated.
Quote from: pr126 on July 30, 2018, 05:35:32 AM
Those very people who are skilled with professions are needed in their own countries to make those places better.
Those countries cannot progress and develop if the best of their people leave, as this only leaves the useless eaters.
I do understand that the migrants want a better life, but this is not helping the “developing†countries if they all leave.
Bit of a conundrum.
The migrants in this case are at a disadvantage in their new countries and not helping their old counrties by abandoning it.
A lose lose situation. That’s of course if they are all skilled professionals as you have stated.
Fair point.
Though in many cases, not all by far, but many cases, it's not as simple as 'wanting a better life'. I could name you, if I were allowed to name them, off the bat 8 families out of my current batch of cliënts that fled for their lives. Including one family in which one of the children got hit by an explosion before they decided to flee.
There are those that came here solely for financial reasons and to, as you say it, 'profit'. In my current batch, I estimate that is two families (edit: three, come to think of it). More problematic, on a purely mathmatical level, is the amount of cliënts I have that grow up disillusioned by the frustration I mentioned before. Of which a large amount come from migrant families.
Apart from that, there are some others too, that moved here not 'wanting a better life', but for different reasons. Having a parent in Belgium, for example, of having the parent of your child in Belgium. Without it being a ploy to get to Belgium, which also happens, of course.
Quote from: Atheon on July 30, 2018, 03:41:18 AM
There' a 4th option: Not build a wall, and maintain the status quo, which we have had for almost two centuries with no ill effects.
No ill effects, to criminal employers. What would the illegal workers think, if they got $15 per hour and full benefits? That is what I would do, remove the inventive to take advantage of human trafficking. Human trafficking is a victimless crime, yes? It isn't just young women forced into prostitution.
Quote from: pr126 on July 30, 2018, 04:04:40 AM
Things have changed dramatically. The status quo is no longer valid.
People feel that they are entitled to move to any country of their choice, and live off the welfare which western countries provide without limits.
Open borders and welfare is a recipe for economic collapse.
You have to provide housing, medical service, schooling, jobs if they are prepared to work, but if you provide welfare there is no need to work, teach them the language, skills necessary to do a job, administration of all this, security, etc.
All cost money. Your taxes. How long is this sustainable?
Free money for everyone = socialism = Venezuela = failed states. People who benefit from failed states, want your state to fail! Bottom feeders like Soros. If Europe wasn't socialist, then there wouldn't be freebees to attract the toiling masses E and S of you. But you will have to end socialism for everyone, not just immigrants. Getting something for free ... is asking the government to commit theft for you. But that is what you get when you spread democracy to dirty peasants.
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on July 30, 2018, 06:11:15 AM
Fair point.
Though in many cases, not all by far, but many cases, it's not as simple as 'wanting a better life'. I could name you, if I were allowed to name them, off the bat 8 families out of my current batch of cliënts that fled for their lives. Including one family in which one of the children got hit by an explosion before they decided to flee.
There are those that came here solely for financial reasons and to, as you say it, 'profit'. In my current batch, I estimate that is two families (edit: three, come to think of it). More problematic, on a purely mathmatical level, is the amount of cliënts I have that grow up disillusioned by the frustration I mentioned before. Of which a large amount come from migrant families.
Apart from that, there are some others too, that moved here not 'wanting a better life', but for different reasons. Having a parent in Belgium, for example, of having the parent of your child in Belgium. Without it being a ploy to get to Belgium, which also happens, of course.
They fled for their lives, because of the US and NATO. Stop the US, Stop NATO. Put Europe under Russia control, a new Warsaw Pact.
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on July 30, 2018, 12:40:15 AM
Or, you know, to have an aging population. Too many old retired people that made too little children to replace them in The jobmarket.
Immigration brings iTS own problems, but 'can' aid in that regard.
Illegal immigration is more problematic.
Rome under Augustus had the same problem. Maybe if European women shaved, more babies would result? ;-)
Quote from: Baruch on July 30, 2018, 06:54:50 AM
Rome under Augustus had the same problem. Maybe if European women shaved, more babies would result? ;-)
I'll be sure to suggest that at The next EU meeting in brussels
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0RxO1oISrQ
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on July 30, 2018, 07:21:30 AM
I'll be sure to suggest that at The next EU meeting in brussels
Or maybe European men can stop being cucks (sarc). Don't European women want real men?
Quote from: Baruch on July 30, 2018, 12:45:26 PM
Or maybe European men can stop being cucks (sarc). Don't European women want real men?
Yes of course. That is why they import millions of Africans, Middle Eastern, Asians.
They feminized all the European males. Here come the sperm donors.
(http://static2.fnp.de/storage/image/1/0/6/2/1152601_cms2image-fixed-605x320_1pra7g_qTkFzw.jpg)
Actually, this is the result of decades of Marxist social engineering experiment.
Worked like a charm.
If I were a young woman, then young men, if handsome, of any particular ethnic background, might blow my wind chimes.
If y'all established European males are going to go drag queen, at least shave, including your face.
Quote from: pr126 on July 30, 2018, 04:04:40 AM
People feel that they are entitled to move to any country of their choice, and live off the welfare which western countries provide without limits.
Well you're a person right? So which country are you moving to?
Quote from: Johan on July 30, 2018, 07:21:31 PM
Well you're a person right? So which country are you moving to?
He already did, twice. He was being sarcastic.
My problem is that any country you go to ... has stupid people in it.
Baruch wrote:QuoteHe already did, twice. He was being sarcastic.
3 times, actually. Legally.
And I wasn't sarcastic.
People do feel they are entitled to move anywhere they wish.
Soros' minions do the transport.
Quote from: pr126 on July 30, 2018, 11:55:44 PM
Baruch wrote:
3 times, actually. Legally.
And I wasn't sarcastic.
People do feel they are entitled to move anywhere they wish.
Soros' minions do the transport.
If you are a Democrat, then conspiracy, treason and obstruction don't apply to you. This is what batshit partisanship gets you.
Quote from: GSOgymrat on July 29, 2018, 09:55:04 PM
My husband and I disagree about the wall. He is all for a wall, doesn't care how much it costs and believes its value is as much symbolic as practical. He is also for a complete ban of all Muslims immigrating from any country, which I disagree with. I think a wall across the entire southern border is a waste of money and an antiquated solution. First of all, I think there needs to be a path to citizenship for undocumented immigrants who can prove they have been in the US for at least two years and have no criminal record. Our government didn't enforce immigration laws, US employers hired them and so Americans are partially responsible for these people establishing lives here. Tracking down all these people and going through the deportation process causes more harm than good. Rather than building a wall I propose we eliminate the reason people illegally immigrate to the US. We need to require all US employers, schools, social service agencies, healthcare providers, landlords and lending agencies to use E-Verify to confirm US citizenship before providing services. This system is already in place and merely needs to be expanded. Employers and agencies caught not verifying citizenship would be fined and penalized. Most people won't illegally immigrate to the US if they can't work, enroll their children in school, rent an apartment, receive medical care for anything that isn't life-threatening or debilitating, or get a driver's license. It is easier and less expensive to hold US companies and agencies to the law, to offer whistle-blower protection for employees who report non-compliance, then track down undocumented immigrants who are evading the law. This plan doesn't target people from any specific country and addresses the problem of people staying after their visa has expired. I believe it would be much less expensive and more effective at curbing illegal immigration than constructing and maintaining a border wall.
I think that might work, but the cost would be beyond acceptance. IOW, you could build a wall, manned with soldiers set every few feet, with orders to shoot on sight. It's been tried before in China and Berlin and N Korea. Not a good model of a democracy...
Quote from: Cavebear on August 01, 2018, 02:08:26 AM
I think that might work, but the cost would be beyond acceptance. IOW, you could build a wall, manned with soldiers set every few feet, with orders to shoot on sight. It's been tried before in China and Berlin and N Korea. Not a good model of a democracy...
We are not a democracy. Been a slave state the whole time. Definition of slavery changed in 1865, that is all.
Quote from: Baruch on August 01, 2018, 01:16:49 PM
We are not a democracy. Been a slave state the whole time. Definition of slavery changed in 1865, that is all.
You are a slave? Report to my toolshed immediately. I need some work done. Dinner is creamed corn. IF you do good work.
Quote from: Cavebear on August 04, 2018, 12:52:14 AM
You are a slave? Report to my toolshed immediately. I need some work done. Dinner is creamed corn. IF you do good work.
Everyone in the US, everyone on Earth is a slave. But it is important for the slaves not to know that.
For example, per eminent domain, the Federal government owns all your money and all your possessions. Without that money or possessions, you can't survive, so unless you want to die, you have to do what your government handler tells you. Otherwise they will clarify your situation (remove the blinkers) so you can see, yes there are aliens walking among us.
Quote from: Baruch on August 04, 2018, 08:28:58 AM
Everyone in the US, everyone on Earth is a slave. But it is important for the slaves not to know that.
For example, per eminent domain, the Federal government owns all your money and all your possessions. Without that money or possessions, you can't survive, so unless you want to die, you have to do what your government handler tells you. Otherwise they will clarify your situation (remove the blinkers) so you can see, yes there are aliens walking among us.
Everyone can't be a slave. Oh, wait, of course, the aliens. You weren't supposed to mention them you know...
But I'll leave you to THEM!
On the other paw, your idea of "eminent domain" is rather lacking a legal understanding. Hey, I once considered pre-law, so I KNOW this stuff, right? Money is an IOU, not property. The gummint can take your house and land for a highway, but not your mom's ashes.
I seem to have snuck away from my gummint handler. Have you done the same?
Quote from: Cavebear on August 04, 2018, 08:38:44 AM
Everyone can't be a slave. Oh, wait, of course, the aliens. You weren't supposed to mention them you know...
But I'll leave you to THEM!
On the other paw, your idea of "eminent domain" is rather lacking a legal understanding. Hey, I once considered pre-law, so I KNOW this stuff, right? Money is an IOU, not property. The gummint can take your house and land for a highway, but not your mom's ashes.
I seem to have snuck away from my gummint handler. Have you done the same?
And not only don't you realize that human trafficking is about chattel slavery, but wage slavery and debt slavery are slavery also.
Quote from: Baruch on August 04, 2018, 08:40:07 AM
And not only don't you realize that human trafficking is about chattel slavery, but wage slavery and debt slavery are slavery also.
You think I don't? I studied slavery in college. And I was the latter two for too many years.
Quote from: Cavebear on August 04, 2018, 08:49:20 AM
You think I don't? I studied slavery in college. And I was the latter two for too many years.
You don't talk like it. You talk like a senior D party opportunist.
Quote from: Baruch on August 04, 2018, 08:54:44 AM
You don't talk like it. You talk like a senior D party opportunist.
When I was just out of college, I kited checks, dodged cockroaches falling of the ceiling at night, and ate hamburger helper-helper.
I talk like this because I pretty much advance-educated myself with books. And endless debates since the mid 90's with people like you. The Chair of the Department of Anthropology at a State University thought I had a PhD in the subject when we talked for several hours after a dinner. Boy was HE surprised, LOL! Hey, its a hobby subject.
Quote from: Cavebear on August 04, 2018, 09:07:03 AM
When I was just out of college, I kited checks, dodged cockroaches falling of the ceiling at night, and ate hamburger helper-helper.
I talk like this because I pretty much advance-educated myself with books. And endless debates since the mid 90's with people like you. The Chair of the Department of Anthropology at a State University thought I had a PhD in the subject when we talked for several hours after a dinner. Boy was HE surprised, LOL! Hey, its a hobby subject.
I read all the time, for decades now. I regret any time I wasted watching TV.
Quote from: Baruch on August 04, 2018, 09:13:23 AM
I read all the time, for decades now. I regret any time I wasted watching TV.
Well, there is the Science Channel, the History Channel, the Not Baruch Channel... ;)
My opinion: Before discussing DACA, the stupidity of a physical wall, or the cruelty inflicted on parents and kids, I think the "problem" of illegal immigration isn't nearly as big of a problem as it's hyped to be. We need to back up and start there and not even go down that road.
What exactly is the problem with immigration that is wrecking our economy or otherwise causing us such horrific problems?
I think we've gone completely crazy over essentially nothing.
Quote from: Mermaid on August 04, 2018, 02:22:03 PM
My opinion: Before discussing DACA, the stupidity of a physical wall, or the cruelty inflicted on parents and kids, I think the "problem" of illegal immigration isn't nearly as big of a problem as it's hyped to be. We need to back up and start there and not even go down that road.
What exactly is the problem with immigration that is wrecking our economy or otherwise causing us such horrific problems?
I think we've gone completely crazy over essentially nothing.
The "problem" is all in the mind of our President and a few sychophants. Its a journey into the mind of a crazed loon.
Trump needs to create enemies, even where they don't exist, because otherwise he has nothing. He has to create hot-button issues to stimulate his base and get them all worked up. What's destroying our economy is tax cuts for the richest people in America. The GOP wants to be able to say that we can no longer afford to pay out all that money in social spending, but we can afford $700,000,000,000 dollars for the war machine.
Trump thinks he's a stand-up comic, a lounge act, and that's not far from the truth. A comic with nuclear bombs is damned scary, though!
Quote from: Unbeliever on August 04, 2018, 02:34:10 PM
Trump needs to create enemies, even where they don't exist, because otherwise he has nothing. He has to create hot-button issues to stimulate his base and get them all worked up. What's destroying our economy is tax cuts for the richest people in America. The GOP wants to be able to say that we can no longer afford to pay out all that money in social spending, but we can afford $700,000,000,000 dollars for the war machine.
Boo-YA! As the tweebs in Kim Possible say.
Ahem. Yes, correct and I agree.
Quote from: Cavebear on August 04, 2018, 02:30:52 PM
The "problem" is all in the mind of our President and a few sychophants. Its a journey into the mind of a crazed loon.
I wish it were just a few. The bad information is like cancer. Here's a tiny shred of an example:
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/static.politifact.com/politifact/photos/Illegal_alien_facebook.jpg)
Quote from: Mermaid on August 04, 2018, 02:39:44 PM
I wish it were just a few. The bad information is like cancer. Here's a tiny shred of an example:
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/static.politifact.com/politifact/photos/Illegal_alien_facebook.jpg)
Wow! I'll bet you can't document any of those "facts". And be aware that I will recheck any facts you offer.
What's true and what's false has ceased to matter. If it fits an agenda, people believe it.
Quote from: Cavebear on August 04, 2018, 02:45:20 PM
Wow! I'll bet you can't document any of those "facts". And be aware that I will recheck any facts you offer.
Cavebear, Mermaid gave us an example of the type of info that is being circulated as 'facts'--but of course, aren't.
And she did say that's just a tiny shred, a drop in the proverbial bucket. People who can be convinced to believe absurdities can also be persuaded to commit atrocities.
Coming soon to a location near you.
Remember "pizza-gate"? That guy didn't kill anyone, but that was just a fluke.
I see my error. I've been online too long. Leaving, with apologies...
I think the best choice is to invade Mexico, send in the full military to hunt down the drug lords and gangs. Mexicans are some of the best workers in the world. Give them their land, some technology and remove the corruption and violence (sounds easy)....stand back and you couldn't stop the flood back to their homeland. Of course then our farms and produce would skyrocket because we would have to pay people real money to harvest....meh.
Quote from: aitm on August 04, 2018, 04:05:08 PM
I think the best choice is to invade Mexico, send in the full military to hunt down the drug lords and gangs.
Or Americans could stop buying their drugs and selling them weapons. Admittedly a crazy notion.
Quote from: Mermaid on August 04, 2018, 02:50:03 PM
What's true and what's false has ceased to matter. If it fits an agenda, people believe it.
Welcome to the election of 1800 ... courtesy of Jefferson vs Adams. Have you read anything from our much trusted newspapers? Partisanship has been ongoing for over 200 years.
Quote from: Mermaid on August 04, 2018, 02:22:03 PM
My opinion: Before discussing DACA, the stupidity of a physical wall, or the cruelty inflicted on parents and kids, I think the "problem" of illegal immigration isn't nearly as big of a problem as it's hyped to be. We need to back up and start there and not even go down that road.
What exactly is the problem with immigration that is wrecking our economy or otherwise causing us such horrific problems?
I think we've gone completely crazy over essentially nothing.
BTW ... I support DACA. President Obama had the power to pardon any law breakers, particularly children of illegal aliens. President Clinton pardoned his good buddy, Mark Rich. Guess he didn't have the guts to do a President Lincoln (Emancipation Proclamation). I don't expect President Trump to do the right thing either. I support Hispanic immigrants ... they are mostly Catholic, not communists, they can recover California for theism. And no, a wall will never be built ... it is just a red herring. Employers will never stand for it.
Quote from: Mike Cl on August 04, 2018, 02:50:16 PM
Cavebear, Mermaid gave us an example of the type of info that is being circulated as 'facts'--but of course, aren't.
Fact ... America was founded on treason and heresy. Deny that please.
Quote from: Unbeliever on August 04, 2018, 02:56:58 PM
And she did say that's just a tiny shred, a drop in the proverbial bucket. People who can be convinced to believe absurdities can also be persuaded to commit atrocities.
Coming soon to a location near you.
Remember "pizza-gate"? That guy didn't kill anyone, but that was just a fluke.
And Voltaire helped create the French Revolution and modern anti-Semitism. The Protocols Of The Elders Of Zion originated in France. Captain Dreyfus was railroaded to Devil's Island. Fuck France.
Quote from: Baruch on August 04, 2018, 04:48:40 PM
Welcome to the election of 1800 ... courtesy of Jefferson vs Adams. Have you read anything from our much trusted newspapers? Partisanship has been ongoing for over 200 years.
Is it your goal to post inane, incomprehensible and trollish shit in every single thread on this forum? If so, you're doing a great job.
Quote from: Mermaid on August 04, 2018, 04:57:18 PM
Is it your goal to post inane, incomprehensible and trollish shit in every single thread on this forum? If so, you're doing a great job.
You have Trump Derangement Syndrome perhaps? Same thing as Obama Derangement Syndrome. Yes, I am doing a great job, against all enemies, foreign and domestic (a very minor job to be sure).
Sorry, is American history incomprehensible to you people?
Quote from: Mermaid on August 04, 2018, 04:57:18 PM
Is it your goal to post inane, incomprehensible and trollish shit in every single thread on this forum? If so, you're doing a great job.
Apparently, and sadly, so. We are in total agreement about this.
Quote from: Cavebear on August 09, 2018, 07:42:55 AM
Apparently, and sadly, so. We are in total agreement about this.
You are not a fine connoisseur of Internet postings ... but it is OK if you prefer the Ripple that is usually served up here.
Snopes says that list is mostly true, although they designate it a "mix." (https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/just-one-state-cost-illegals-los-angeles/) They're still more honest than CNN.
RIP Bensten State Park
'Trump Wall General"
Hey Donnie, let me cut to the chase. When the Mexican checks clears, build your wall.
Until then, stop asking me for money.
Quote from: ferdmonger on August 10, 2018, 05:15:20 PM
'Trump Wall General"
Hey Donnie, let me cut to the chase. When the Mexican checks clears, build your wall.
Until then, stop asking me for money.
As wholly owned property of the American police state, they own you and all your money too.
Don't doubt it a bit. But I'm not paying for his fucking wall.
Start a go fund me page and donate.
Quote from: ferdmonger on August 10, 2018, 05:49:03 PM
Don't doubt it a bit. But I'm not paying for his fucking wall.
Start a go fund me page and donate.
I am pro immigrant. I hope they make you into tacos (sarc).
As my friends enjoy tacos, I hope you're not promoting cannibalism.
Quote from: ferdmonger on August 10, 2018, 05:15:20 PM
'Trump Wall General"
Hey Donnie, let me cut to the chase. When the Mexican checks clears, build your wall.
Until then, stop asking me for money.
Too bad, they'll be taking your money for immigrant welfare in the meantime. There is no "cheap" labor, only taxpayer-subsidized labor.
Quote from: ferdmonger on August 10, 2018, 06:12:33 PM
As my friends enjoy tacos, I hope you're not promoting cannibalism.
Old movie ... Eating Raoul.
Quote from: orcus on August 10, 2018, 10:48:41 PM
Too bad, they'll be taking your money for immigrant welfare in the meantime. There is no "cheap" labor, only taxpayer-subsidized labor.
Given the fact that immigrant labor harvests most of the food you eat (both veggie and meat), are you ready to start your own farm and slaughterhouse? Try getting US citizens to do that work. The cost would go up. And maybe it should.
Quote from: Cavebear on August 12, 2018, 03:47:24 AM
Given the fact that immigrant labor harvests most of the food you eat (both veggie and meat), are you ready to start your own farm and slaughterhouse? Try getting US citizens to do that work. The cost would go up. And maybe it should.
No, just have the Mexicans harvest the Anglos ... for tacos.
I used to pick tacos for a living. Fucking hard work.
Lost a fortune on buying land. The soil was either too acidic, or I was planting the cheese too deep.
You have to give the cheese plenty of space; if you plant it too close together it doesn't get enough nutrients.
That's what I figured. Lots of Miracle Grow next year, and more blue cheese. I think it has a better root system.
It's better to use Miracle Grub.
While that may seem correct, it seems the more grubs I introduce into my soil, the more grubs I end up with in my soil.
Sure, they shit all over and increase the nutrient value of the soil, but they keep fucking eating my cheese-roots.
I'm stuck in a Catch 22.
Quote from: Unbeliever on August 12, 2018, 08:25:09 PM
It's better to use Miracle Grub.
A magical baby insect ...
Quote from: ferdmonger on August 12, 2018, 08:37:59 PM
While that may seem correct, it seems the more grubs I introduce into my soil, the more grubs I end up with in my soil.
Sure, they shit all over and increase the nutrient value of the soil, but they keep fucking eating my cheese-roots.
I'm stuck in a Catch 22.
Natural ecology isn't monoculture. A lawn of bermuda grass is no more natural than fox hunting on horseback.
Quote from: ferdmonger on August 12, 2018, 07:53:32 PM
Lost a fortune on buying land. The soil was either too acidic, or I was planting the cheese too deep.
Soil conservation department has helpful hints for your area. Sounds like you needed to add lime. Ground up Limeys.
Yeah, I know, but when I brought up using lime to dispose of bodies, the guy gave me a weird look.
Quote from: ferdmonger on August 13, 2018, 12:23:28 AM
Yeah, I know, but when I brought up using lime to dispose of bodies, the guy gave me a weird look.
That is what happened to bodies in the "poor" section of the graveyards. They didn't have individual burial plots. You should have told him you were a funeral director ;-)
Quote from: ferdmonger on August 12, 2018, 08:37:59 PM
While that may seem correct, it seems the more grubs I introduce into my soil, the more grubs I end up with in my soil.
Sure, they shit all over and increase the nutrient value of the soil, but they keep fucking eating my cheese-roots.
I'm stuck in a Catch 22.
You have to say the magic words:
Grubby grub grub, three grubs in a tub,
the cheese will grow - aye that's the rub!
An artist argues Trump's border wall prototypes are art. (https://qz.com/quartzy/1182972/trumps-border-wall-prototypes-are-art-argues-artist-christoph-buchel/) I agree.
(http://d279m997dpfwgl.cloudfront.net/wp/2018/03/0313_border-wall-1000x694.jpg)
Never much liked brutish modern art. No thanks. I would rather see the employers hang from lamp posts. Not really. I am in favor of poor people.
If that's supposed to be art, well... fuck.
That's pure shit. Visually, politically, and pretty much any other adverb I can come up with.
I don't know much about art, but I know what I don't like.
A buddy of mine told me yesterday that he thinks Rudy Giuliani looks like Simon Bar Sinister from the old Underdog cartoon. I can't say I disagree.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ostUIvrNipI
The Austin Lounge Lizards song "Teenage Immigrant Welfare Mothers on Drugs" has a couple of lines at the end:
(Let's build a thousand-mile fence)
Teenage immigrant welfare mothers on drugs
(It's just common sense)
Teenage immigrant welfare mothers on drugs
(Like the Berlin Wall)
Teenage immigrant welfare mothers on drugs
(Land mines and all!)
Teenage immigrant welfare mothers on drugs
Mr. Trump, that song was not a serious suggestion.
Yeah, I'm surprised he hasn't yet suggested sowing land mines all along the southern border. It would be a lot cheaper than his wall.
Quote from: Unbeliever on August 22, 2018, 04:48:07 PM
Yeah, I'm surprised he hasn't yet suggested sowing land mines all along the southern border. It would be a lot cheaper than his wall.
Mining land is usually quite easy. Usually only requires a shovel.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhRbY4Wf_OQ
You forgot about welfare mothers.
I know them. My daughter is on assistance. I hope she sucks every buck from your bank account.
Quote from: Unbeliever on August 22, 2018, 04:48:07 PM
Yeah, I'm surprised he hasn't yet suggested sowing land mines all along the southern border. It would be a lot cheaper than his wall.
Well driving a truck I've seen a few sections of the southern border. They went cheaper than that along the 8fwy between San Diego and Calexico. They stripped vegetation off of a strip of land 20-30 ft wide;on the south side; covered it with sand and brushed it smooth. Since nobody can jump that far they just drive back and forth looking for footprints. When they do they start searching.
In Texas they like hunting; killing 2 birds with one stone. A section of hwy 93 has a slew of hunting blinds setup. No way to know if its INS or empty or someone hunting.
dont remember where; maybe Nogales they have video cameras up on telephone poles.
all methods cheaper than a wall... They use blimps by La Cruces, but I dont know if that is cheaper in the long run
Trump doesn't really care about a wall, it's just a way to get his base fired up.
Maybe he desparately needs to be an icon. He cant tear down the Lincoln Memorial and replace it with a stature of himself, so he has to settle for a wall that says Trump in very big lettersðŸ¤
Yeah, he really puts the "con" in icon! ;-P
Oh Trump sure wants a wall alright. He promised it. But one might begin to wonder which direction he wants the wall to stop movement...
Quote from: Cavebear on August 27, 2018, 01:58:01 AM
Oh Trump sure wants a wall alright. He promised it. But one might begin to wonder which direction he wants the wall to stop movement...
If we can just brick up his mouth and his computer keyboard, that'll solve a significant proportion of our current problems.
Quote from: trdsf on August 27, 2018, 02:50:09 AM
If we can just brick up his mouth and his computer keyboard, that'll solve a significant proportion of our current problems.
This makes me wonder exactly what devices Trump uses. I doubt it is a whole keyboard. But it seems more than those thumbs-managed smartphones. Has it ever been revealed what he tweets on?
Quote from: Cavebear on August 27, 2018, 02:54:51 AM
Has it ever been revealed what he tweets on?
Caffeine and stupidity.
Quote from: trdsf on August 27, 2018, 03:18:46 AM
Caffeine and stupidity.
I think that was pre-internet for him, LOL!
Suggestion for a device Silicon Valley could create: Localized internet baffle. Useful in carpools when the driver is endangering your life, good in theaters, around dinner tables, and during parties. I'm sure many other situations.
Quote from: Cavebear on August 27, 2018, 01:58:01 AM
Oh Trump sure wants a wall alright. He promised it. But one might begin to wonder which direction he wants the wall to stop movement...
China ... wall keeps Chinese in.
Quote from: trdsf on August 27, 2018, 02:50:09 AM
If we can just brick up his mouth and his computer keyboard, that'll solve a significant proportion of our current problems.
Hahah ... you think that the CIA will let you continue this?
Quote from: Cavebear on August 27, 2018, 03:29:31 AM
I think that was pre-internet for him, LOL!
Suggestion for a device Silicon Valley could create: Localized internet baffle. Useful in carpools when the driver is endangering your life, good in theaters, around dinner tables, and during parties. I'm sure many other situations.
Cone of Silence worked great ;-)
Quote from: Cavebear on August 27, 2018, 01:58:01 AM
Oh Trump sure wants a wall alright. He promised it. But one might begin to wonder which direction he wants the wall to stop movement...
Yeah, any wall that can be built to keep people out can also keep people in.
Quote from: Cavebear on August 27, 2018, 02:54:51 AM
Has it ever been revealed what he tweets on?
The toilet?
Quote from: Unbeliever on August 27, 2018, 02:28:34 PM
The toilet?
Some people do their best thinking there, and magazine reading. Generally the best singing is while taking a shower.
Quote from: Unbeliever on August 27, 2018, 02:28:34 PM
The toilet?
Actually, that truer than you might realize. When I worked for a federal agency, we inventoried equipment and furniture in the White House. And, yes, I was under the Oval Office Desk once applying a sticker. But there was a phone next to the Oval Office toilet. Pinky-swear!
Quote from: Cavebear on August 27, 2018, 02:42:43 PM
Actually, that truer than you might realize. When I worked for a federal agency, we inventoried equipment and furniture in the White House. And, yes, I was under the Oval Office Desk once applying a sticker. But there was a phone next to the Oval Office toilet. Pinky-swear!
Not the Red Phone ... that was the Brown Phone ;-)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7urpodn0tY
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/president-trump-coloring-american-flag-wrong_us_5b8419cae4b0cd327dfea9fa
Interesting, the Russian flag does have a blue stripe! LOL
Quote from: Unbeliever on August 27, 2018, 03:33:47 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7urpodn0tY
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/president-trump-coloring-american-flag-wrong_us_5b8419cae4b0cd327dfea9fa
Interesting, the Russian flag does have a blue stripe! LOL
See, would Hillary have made that error. Of course not. So the Western Democracy would have been saved.
Don't tell that to Baruch, he'll go crazy...er...crazier.
Quote from: Unbeliever on August 27, 2018, 03:49:33 PM
Don't tell that to Baruch, he'll go crazier.
I adjusted your quote... LOL!
Quote from: Cavebear on August 27, 2018, 03:45:09 PM
See, would Hillary have made that error. Of course not. So the Western Democracy would have been saved.
I don't hate Russians, but I do hate Americans (for how they vote).
"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter." - Winston Churchill