So some chick decides to war a Chinese dress to prom because she liked it and some asshole decided it was offensive. Meanwhile the whole internet is losing their shit over this bs "cultural appropriation" that sounds very racist.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2018/05/01/its-just-a-dress-teens-chinese-prom-attire-stirs-cultural-appropriation-debate/?noredirect=on
QuoteIt’s that time of year in high school, the season of the highly anticipated, stress-inducing rite of passage called prom.
Like many other teenagers preparing for prom, Utah senior Keziah Daum wanted to find a dress that would stand out, “something that would be more unique and bold and had some sort of meaning to it,†she said in an interview with The Washington Post.
Daum decided to browse a vintage store in downtown Salt Lake City, where she came across a red cheongsam, also known as a qipao â€" the high-collared, form-fitting traditional Chinese dress.
“I thought it was absolutely beautiful,†said Daum, who is not Chinese. She appreciated its high neckline, a difficult trait to find in many prom dresses. The dress, she said, “really gave me a sense of appreciation and admiration for other cultures and their beauty.â€
On a Sunday after the dance last month, like many other social media-savvy high schoolers, she posted a photo in her dress alongside her friends.
She had no idea it would elicit such a response.
“My culture is NOT your …. prom dress,†a man named Jeremy Lam tweeted days later, sharing the photos she posted.
“I’m proud of my culture, including the extreme barriers marginalized people within that culture have had to overcome those obstacles,†Lam also wrote. “For it to simply be subject to American consumerism and cater to a white audience, is parallel to colonial ideology.â€
The tweet, which has been shared nearly 42,000 times, spurred an onslaught of similar criticism of Daum’s prom dress, with many people on Twitter accusing her of cultural appropriation.
“This isn’t ok,†wrote another Twitter user. “I wouldn’t wear traditional Korean, Japanese or any other traditional dress and I’m Asian. I wouldn’t wear traditional Irish or Swedish or Greek dress either. There’s a lot of history behind these clothes.â€
Another wrote: “you just don’t wear it if ur not. chinese … it’s not something to play dress up with.â€
It was the latest example of the long-running debate over the fine line between appreciating and appropriating culture.
You bitches need to stop appropriating my culture.
https://youtu.be/LobAQURjCxw
Teenager’s Prom Dress Stirs Furor in U.S. â€" but Not in China
Image
https://mobile.nytimes.com/2018/05/02/world/asia/chinese-prom-dress.html
... When the furor reached Asia, though, many seemed to be scratching their heads. Far from being critical of Ms. Daum, who is not Chinese, many people in mainland China, Hong Kong and Taiwan proclaimed her choice of the traditional high-necked dress as a victory for Chinese culture.
“I am very proud to have our culture recognized by people in other countries,†said someone called Snail Trail, commenting on a post of the Utah episode by a popular account on WeChat, the messaging and social media platform, that had been read more than 100,000 times.
“It’s ridiculous to criticize this as cultural appropriation,†Zhou Yijun, a Hong Kong-based cultural commentator, said in a telephone interview. “From the perspective of a Chinese person, if a foreign woman wears a qipao and thinks she looks pretty, then why shouldn’t she wear it?â€
If anything, the uproar surrounding Ms. Daum’s dress prompted many Chinese to reflect on examples of cultural appropriation in their own country.
“So does that mean when we celebrate Christmas and Halloween it’s also cultural appropriation?†asked one WeChat user, Larissa. ...
Its a dress. Fuck those people.
I always liked those dresses, complemented with some left over chopsticks in the woman's hair. This is not a joke. Seriously, I think that style is cool.
Quote from: SGOS on May 03, 2018, 09:31:03 AM
I always liked those dresses, complemented with some left over chopsticks in the woman's hair. This is not a joke. Seriously, I think that style is cool.
A woman has to be pretty thin to flatter that style of dress. Kimono (with easy fake obi) looks nice too.
Apparently, his culture IS her prom dress. Why else would he find a piece of woven fabrics so offensive, if his entire culture couldn't just be boiled down to fashion sense?
I wish shit like this would happen to me so i could simply tell everyone to fuck off, kiss buy ass, and bury your nose in my scrotum…..in any particular order.
I understand white people wearing like feather hairdresses being unacceptable, and the appropriation of African American culture being extremely problematic, but that has much more to do with the spiritual aspect for the native Americans and the history of whites and Africans.
This I think is much more a grey zone of "why?"; I personally don't have any problem with people wearing say Italian clothing or middle eastern outfits because they think it looks nice. It's when people wear it to look "exotic" or funny that I think it enters the realm of offensive. And I think that applies to other cultures as well.
If Chinese people aren't offended by it, and she was wearing it as a form of appreciation, then I really don't think it's anyone business. Cultures trade fashion and cultural traits all the time.
Quote from: Shiranu on May 03, 2018, 07:00:50 PMCultures trade fashion and cultural traits all the time.
As it should be. I've gotta say, I find "progressive" people objecting to this to be very much akin to the right-wing xenophobia SJWs claim to combat. I saw a post a while ago about how white kids shouldn't dress up as Black Panther. It struck me as something a Klansman would say.
So, where roughly is the arbitrary offense line these days when it comes to whats acceptable from other cultures and whats not? If a black kid wants to dress up like a white super hero like say thor, is that okay? What if a white kid wants to dress up like black panther, or storm from the x-men?
Quote from: Shiranu on May 03, 2018, 07:00:50 PM
I understand white people wearing like feather hairdresses being unacceptable, and the appropriation of African American culture being extremely problematic, but that has much more to do with the spiritual aspect for the native Americans and the history of whites and Africans.
This I think is much more a grey zone of "why?"; I personally don't have any problem with people wearing say Italian clothing or middle eastern outfits because they think it looks nice. It's when people wear it to look "exotic" or funny that I think it enters the realm of offensive. And I think that applies to other cultures as well.
If Chinese people aren't offended by it, and she was wearing it as a form of appreciation, then I really don't think it's anyone business. Cultures trade fashion and cultural traits all the time.
Make all the Greeks give up pants ... those are Persian!
Quote from: Hydra009 on May 03, 2018, 07:41:43 PM
As it should be. I've gotta say, I find "progressive" people objecting to this to be very much akin to the right-wing xenophobia SJWs claim to combat. I saw a post a while ago about how white kids shouldn't dress up as Black Panther. It struck me as something a Klansman would say.
Only Whites are evil. Only Anglophones are White. Put two and two together.
Quote from: Munch on May 03, 2018, 08:39:41 PM
So, where roughly is the arbitrary offense line these days when it comes to whats acceptable from other cultures and whats not? If a black kid wants to dress up like a white super hero like say thor, is that okay? What if a white kid wants to dress up like black panther, or storm from the x-men?
For me, it has to be super duper offensive (we're talking like minstrel show tier stuff) to rustle my jimmies. And even then, I'm not keen on getting the law involved to enforce my sensibilities, because I know what's bound to happen when someone who's sensibilities differ from mine get power.
I tend to worry more about actual harm than hurt fee-fees, a stance that hasn't endeared me to my more SJW peers. Suffice it to say that policing halloween costumes and prom dresses is not a high priority for me.
Quote from: Hydra009 on May 03, 2018, 09:13:09 PM
For me, it has to be super duper offensive (we're talking like minstrel show tier stuff) to rustle my jimmies. And even then, I'm not keen on getting the law involved to enforce my sensibilities, because I know what's bound to happen when someone who's sensibilities differ from mine get power.
I tend to worry more about actual harm than hurt fee-fees, a stance that hasn't endeared me to my more SJW peers. Suffice it to say that policing halloween costumes and prom dresses is not a high priority for me.
I'm kind of hoping history looks back at this era as The Age of Offense, as a cautionary tale of what happened to people with thin skin
Being offended is sometimes fashionable, but I think it's always been like that. Maybe it's more so today. I'm not sure. People seem to like to post being offended on Utube. It's seems like a strange way to feel empowered, or whatever they are looking for.
Quote from: SGOS on May 03, 2018, 09:44:49 PM
Being offended is sometimes fashionable, but I think it's always been like that. Maybe it's more so today. I'm not sure. People seem to like to post being offended on Utube. It's seems like a strange way to feel empowered, or whatever they are looking for.
The difference is now that it's a little clip or quote (which may or may not be misleading, or even true) posted online and you near instantly get a million eyeballs with almost as many snap judgments. Not that people in yesteryear were any better, but at least there, the truth would catch up in short order. Now, the damage is done before the truth even puts on its shoes.
Quote from: Munch on May 03, 2018, 09:28:36 PM
I'm kind of hoping history looks back at this era as The Age of Offense, as a cautionary tale of what happened to people with thin skin
I'm sure I've said it before, but acting like this is the age of offense is really dull.
Our parents generation lost their shit if they had to share a restaurant, school or bus with a black person... or if you look at them wrong, they want to see your manager, have you fired and also get half the store for free as reparation. To me, that is infinitely further thin skinned.than anything that happens now. The only difference is the internet makes smaller, stupider things more visible.
I would argue our generation is in fact quite possibly the least offended in human history overall.
Quote from: Shiranu on May 04, 2018, 01:31:06 AM
I'm sure I've said it before, but acting like this is the age of offense is really dull.
Our parents generation lost their shit if they had to share a restaurant, school or bus with a black person... or if you look at them wrong, they want to see your manager, have you fired and also get half the store for free as reparation. To me, that is infinitely further thin skinned.than anything that happens now. The only difference is the internet makes smaller, stupider things more visible.
I would argue our generation is in fact quite possibly the least offended in human history overall.
Seems more like your trying to make out the last generation is worse then this one. Sorry but hydra hit the nail there. Not only does this generation still have racists in it, but they exist on both sides of any argument, extremism on both sides of the political and social spectrum, and coupled with people broadcasting their offense to the world now, and people equally getting offended by what they post.
Edit: ha, looks like someone already coined the name.
http://www.survivopedia.com/the-age-of-offense/
Quote from: Shiranu on May 03, 2018, 07:00:50 PM
I understand white people wearing like feather hairdresses being unacceptable, and the appropriation of African American culture being extremely problematic, but that has much more to do with the spiritual aspect for the native Americans and the history of whites and Africans.
This I think is much more a grey zone of "why?"; I personally don't have any problem with people wearing say Italian clothing or middle eastern outfits because they think it looks nice. It's when people wear it to look "exotic" or funny that I think it enters the realm of offensive. And I think that applies to other cultures as well.
If Chinese people aren't offended by it, and she was wearing it as a form of appreciation, then I really don't think it's anyone business. Cultures trade fashion and cultural traits all the time.
Bold mine
And if they are; whatever.
Quote from: Shiranu on May 04, 2018, 01:31:06 AM
I'm sure I've said it before, but acting like this is the age of offense is really dull.
Our parents generation lost their shit if they had to share a restaurant, school or bus with a black person... or if you look at them wrong, they want to see your manager, have you fired and also get half the store for free as reparation. To me, that is infinitely further thin skinned.than anything that happens now. The only difference is the internet makes smaller, stupider things more visible.
I would argue our generation is in fact quite possibly the least offended in human history overall.
Your grandparent's generation, and only in 1/4 of the US. Not every American in the 60s was an adult, or KKK member.
Generational politics ... just more BS to divide and conquer. And every generation virtue-signals ... mine did!
Quote from: SGOS on May 03, 2018, 09:44:49 PM
Being offended is sometimes fashionable, but I think it's always been like that. Maybe it's more so today. I'm not sure. People seem to like to post being offended on Utube. It's seems like a strange way to feel empowered, or whatever they are looking for.
Comments on YouTube are particularly vile ;-(
In a perfectly balanced world, the number of people for whom taking offense is their greatest joy in life would be balanced by an equal number of people whose greatest life achievement is offending as many others as possible. Only then can all individuals feel fulfilled and face their deaths knowing that they have truly been people of great character and respected by all.
Quote from: SGOS on May 04, 2018, 06:15:13 AM
In a perfectly balanced world, the number of people for whom taking offense is their greatest joy in life would be balanced by an equal number of people whose greatest life achievement is offending as many others as possible. Only then can all individuals feel fulfilled and face their deaths knowing that they have truly been people of great character and respected by all.
Monkey's throw poo poo, it is what they do do.
QuoteSeems more like your trying to make out the last generation is worse then this one.
Probably because they objectively are worse.
I think problems with the concept of cultural appropriation go beyond just offending people. One issue is many people who publically shame others for cultural appropriation are not being nuanced in their assessment of different situations. For example, in this case of a teenager wearing a Chinese style dress critics don't consider motivation, context or that this is an adolescent. They don't empathize that she is a young girl trying to express her individuality and being subjected to a Twitter mob. I find this hypocritical because progressive people often accuse others of not taking a nuanced, empathetic approach to problems and because progressive people usually encourage self-expression and not adhering to cultural norms. There is a difference between a child's Native American Halloween costume, a girl wearing a Chinese style dress to a prom and an adult wearing a skirt covered with Swastikas to Jewish wedding because she thinks it's fun geometric pattern.
Another issue-- I think criticizing cultural appropriation is really an expression of conservative values. Conservatives typically believe groups have their own culture and that their culture needs to be protected. "This belongs to us and you can't have it because you're not one of us" is a conservative attitude. Protecting a cultural customs and mores through public shaming is a conservative tactic. In my estimation, a truly progressive approach would be to encourage people from different groups to share their food, art, fashion, and customs, recognizing that other people are going to take these things, change them, and make them their own. Progressive thinking isn't about preserving the past or protecting cultural norms but creating a new, different, inclusive future.
I personally think the entire 'cultural appropriation' deal is silly.
I can't find a better word for it. Silly. Useless squable for the sake of squable.
Next thing you'll know you'll have a gang of angry Italians protesting in Chicago for what attrocities the locals performed against their culturally appropriated dish 'pizza'.
And my colleague with tribal tattoos will chased down the street.
Quote from: Shiranu on May 04, 2018, 01:31:06 AM
I'm sure I've said it before, but acting like this is the age of offense is really dull.
Our parents generation lost their shit if they had to share a restaurant, school or bus with a black person... or if you look at them wrong, they want to see your manager, have you fired and also get half the store for free as reparation. To me, that is infinitely further thin skinned.than anything that happens now. The only difference is the internet makes smaller, stupider things more visible.
I would argue our generation is in fact quite possibly the least offended in human history overall.
Every generation thinks things were better in their youth, and complains about the generations that come after. It's been that way since the invention of old people. Fact of the matter is, however, each generation has made significant improvements in the last few centuries. We have significantly fewer wars, violent crimes are down, gay people actually have rights, we have more people in higher education, religion is finally losing ground as rationality and information take its place, etc. My generation is objectively better than the ones that came before it, and the generations after mine will be even better.
Quote from: Munch on May 04, 2018, 04:35:56 AM
http://www.survivopedia.com/the-age-of-offense/
I find it suspicious when "freedom of speech advocates" complain progressives are constantly offended yet completely ignore when conservatives, particularly religious conservatives, express their endless offense at today's culture. Bill White, the author of the article, sees how some progressives want to silence critics but doesn't seem to recognize that conservatives do the same thing. He also is focusing on college students rather than the government, when the government is where the power is and which is currently controlled by conservatives. Some of these "advocates" seem to ignore actual freedom of speech issues, like the GOVERNMENT of Florida declaring pornography is a public health risk, setting the groundwork for the state to regulate it like tobacco, alcohol and drugs. If Bill White really wants to support freedom of speech he needs to be fair and address the scope of the problem.
Quote from: Shiranu on May 04, 2018, 08:03:52 AM
Probably because they objectively are worse.
Kill the feral children, we can always make more ;-)
Old people are the master race. Young people are the master race. Follow that logic at your peril.
Young people are spoiled by superior technology ... used to be technology hardly changed over a lifetime. People start as babies, they grow up, have families, work and die. Same as always. People haven't changed much. The idea that any generation is morally superior (including Greatest Generation) is an invitation to genocide.
Institute Logan's Run, but only after Shiranu turns 30 ;-)
Quote from: Shiranu on May 04, 2018, 01:31:06 AM
I'm sure I've said it before, but acting like this is the age of offense is really dull.
Our parents generation lost their shit if they had to share a restaurant, school or bus with a black person... or if you look at them wrong, they want to see your manager, have you fired and also get half the store for free as reparation. To me, that is infinitely further thin skinned.than anything that happens now. The only difference is the internet makes smaller, stupider things more visible.
I would argue our generation is in fact quite possibly the least offended in human history overall.
Which parents? Not my parents.
Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. Offense is not what these morons should be feeling. They should be feeling flattered. Now I know I shouldn't tell someone how to feel, and I will refrain from doing so as long as they don't tell me how to dress.
Quotepersonally think the entire 'cultural appropriation' deal is silly.
I can't find a better word for it. Silly. Useless squable for the sake of squable.
{Edit: And I will restate it "again" that I feel that this instance is definitely being ridiculous on the people being outraged by it, since she seemed to legitimately be showing respect for the outfit and wearing it to a classy event as opposed to say a frat party or something.}
The problem is it always seems to be the people doing the appropriating (don't mean "you" as an individual but rather "you" as a cultural group) that say they don't have any problem with it, like it's their opinion on the issue that matters.
I think alot of what is called cultural appropriation, such as in this instance, is definitely blowing things way out of proportion, and ultimately it should be whomever's culture is being appropriated that decides if it's offensive or not and not white people.
But there is nothing silly about say Native Americans, who had 80% or more of their population (tens of millions of people) genocided by Europeans saying that it is in poor taste for Europeans to wear their sacred clothing as irreverent costumes or to look "exotic". There is nothing silly about Africans who had their continent raped and pillaged for hundreds of years by Europeans being annoyed by Europeans wearing their traditional clothing because it looks cool.
You can argue those examples happened hundred+ years ago, but the simple fact of the matter is that it both continues to this day (Native Americans are treated horribly in the United States, Africa is still a puppet continent for European and Asian powers, African Americans are still oppressed in many ways by the European majority) and thus is still an open wound.
The Italian example falls flat because while yes we were a minority in Europe and America and for a long time were considered "non-white", we still were one of the most powerful cultural groups in the world. Fuck, European culture is basically our creation... we can hardly be considered oppressed.
Ultimately the argument I see here seems to be, "I have the right to offend, so I should be offensive!" and it strikes me very much of the, "I have the right to my guns, so fuck you for wanting to take them!"... if someone finds your choice of borrowing from their culture offensive, then engage them in an honest conversation and explain why you are wearing the outfit. I guarantee you the overwhelming majority of people will not be offended when you offer a better reason than, "Oh, it makes me look so exotic!". But if you meet them with just pointless attitude and sass, then yes they will respond in kind. I honestly don't get this obsession with having the right to be a dick means you have to be a dick.
I have had people talk to me over some of the traditional African outfits I wear (several family friends are from Tanzania and Kenya and have sent me clothing, and I have family from the Caribbean as well who have sent me Rastafari-clothing)... no one has ever been offended that this scrawny white/brown guy is wearing ethnic clothing. The common response is that it's really cool to see someone showing appreciation of their culture (and if there is any way I could hook them up because they want clothing that reminds them of their roots as well).
It's all about context; wearing these outfits with respect for what they mean and represent generally is met with respect. Wearing them just to look "foreign" and "exotic", and people are going to be offended that they are being viewed as "others" and a fashion statement rather than as human beings with histories. I think that is a perfectly logical response.
And holy fuck, that went on alot longer than I meant, so my bad.
If some teen girl likes a style of dress, what is the harm? Fashions flit around the globe like butterflies in jet cargo. In college, I wore paisley shirts to dances and parties. Later, I wore doubleknits slacks with minutia patterns. After that, I wore 3-piece suits with a vest and a pocket-watch. I wore bolo ties, thin ties, fat ties, colorful ties, subdued ties, and solid color ties at various times. I wore engineer boots, a cloth vest and a cowboy hat for a while. At one time I wore bell-bottomed pants and flounced sleeve shirts. At another time, I wore tie dyed shirts and blue jeans. In my later years in the office where I worked, I wore black. Totally. Black slacks, black oxford shirts, black sweater-vest, black socks, black shoes, black tie, and black blazer. I was known as "The Man In Black", which the tech image I had at the time.
We have all tried different looks at different times. And if you chose a look at 16 and kept it til you were 50 or so, that probably suggests some mental rigidity.
Criticizing someone for "liking a look" is not the same as "stealing a culture".
My house is painted/decorated in black red and green. Those are traditional colors of Africa. I'm not trying to be African or adopt a culture. I just happen to like those colors in combination. But say I did. Would liking those colors in combination mean I was trying to control or take dominion over some culture that used those colors? No.
So some teenager decided she really liked a pattern of prints and colors and wanted to wear them to a fancy dance. BOO and HISS to all those who object. Think twice and thrice about it...
What does the frowny face on the main screen for this particular thread mean?
Quote from: Cavebear on May 05, 2018, 10:10:05 PM
What does the frowny face on the main screen for this particular thread mean?
It's really just a way for the o.p, in this case Drac, to indicate their pissed off at the subject of the thread they created
Quote from: Munch on May 05, 2018, 10:32:58 PM
It's really just a way for the o.p, in this case Drac, to indicate their pissed off at the subject of the thread they created
Thanks. I am dumb at some of this stuff.
Quote from: Shiranu on May 05, 2018, 01:12:17 AM
{Edit: And I will restate it "again" that I feel that this instance is definitely being ridiculous on the people being outraged by it, since she seemed to legitimately be showing respect for the outfit and wearing it to a classy event as opposed to say a frat party or something.}
The problem is it always seems to be the people doing the appropriating (don't mean "you" as an individual but rather "you" as a cultural group) that say they don't have any problem with it, like it's their opinion on the issue that matters.
I think alot of what is called cultural appropriation, such as in this instance, is definitely blowing things way out of proportion, and ultimately it should be whomever's culture is being appropriated that decides if it's offensive or not and not white people.
But there is nothing silly about say Native Americans, who had 80% or more of their population (tens of millions of people) genocided by Europeans saying that it is in poor taste for Europeans to wear their sacred clothing as irreverent costumes or to look "exotic". There is nothing silly about Africans who had their continent raped and pillaged for hundreds of years by Europeans being annoyed by Europeans wearing their traditional clothing because it looks cool.
You can argue those examples happened hundred+ years ago, but the simple fact of the matter is that it both continues to this day (Native Americans are treated horribly in the United States, Africa is still a puppet continent for European and Asian powers, African Americans are still oppressed in many ways by the European majority) and thus is still an open wound.
The Italian example falls flat because while yes we were a minority in Europe and America and for a long time were considered "non-white", we still were one of the most powerful cultural groups in the world. Fuck, European culture is basically our creation... we can hardly be considered oppressed.
Ultimately the argument I see here seems to be, "I have the right to offend, so I should be offensive!" and it strikes me very much of the, "I have the right to my guns, so fuck you for wanting to take them!"... if someone finds your choice of borrowing from their culture offensive, then engage them in an honest conversation and explain why you are wearing the outfit. I guarantee you the overwhelming majority of people will not be offended when you offer a better reason than, "Oh, it makes me look so exotic!". But if you meet them with just pointless attitude and sass, then yes they will respond in kind. I honestly don't get this obsession with having the right to be a dick means you have to be a dick.
I have had people talk to me over some of the traditional African outfits I wear (several family friends are from Tanzania and Kenya and have sent me clothing, and I have family from the Caribbean as well who have sent me Rastafari-clothing)... no one has ever been offended that this scrawny white/brown guy is wearing ethnic clothing. The common response is that it's really cool to see someone showing appreciation of their culture (and if there is any way I could hook them up because they want clothing that reminds them of their roots as well).
It's all about context; wearing these outfits with respect for what they mean and represent generally is met with respect. Wearing them just to look "foreign" and "exotic", and people are going to be offended that they are being viewed as "others" and a fashion statement rather than as human beings with histories. I think that is a perfectly logical response.
And holy fuck, that went on alot longer than I meant, so my bad.
It is a long post, but what i understand from it; you don't seem to understand my point at all, so if The intent is to debate my point; it kind of misses. So i feel like i can circumvent most of that.
It's not that i think that it's my opinion that matters.
It's that i don't think peoples opinions Should matter to anyone doing things they enjoy that aren't really harming anyone.
And look, if you feel bad about people being offended by what you do; that's fine. And if you want to listen to them and understand why; that's even better. But it doesn't mean you are actually doing something wrong. So you have to make out for yourself if you wish to continue down that path or not. And it is up to you. Because offending someone is not The same as attacking someone. And offending someone isn't The same as 'exerting a right to be offensive'. Because offense is in The eye of The beholder.
Shiranu, i understand and appreciate how you wish to defend The rights of those, historically or presently, less fortunate than yourself. But there simply is no such thing as a right to 'not be offended'. And if i were a praying man, i'd pray there'll never be such a thing.
In any case, there's nothing wrong with caring about your cultural heritage. But just because one thing has certain meaning to you, you Should not go around assuming everyone ties your meaning to that. A if someone has a different meaning for that thing; it fails to be an insult because it's simply a different interpretation.
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on May 07, 2018, 04:08:02 AM
It is a long post, but what i understand from it; you don't seem to understand my point at all, so if The intent is to debate my point; it kind of misses. So i feel like i can circumvent most of that.
It's not that i think that it's my opinion that matters.
It's that i don't think peoples opinions Should matter to anyone doing things they enjoy that aren't really harming anyone.
And look, if you feel bad about people being offended by what you do; that's fine. And if you want to listen to them and understand why; that's even better. But it doesn't mean you are actually doing something wrong. So you have to make out for yourself if you wish to continue down that path or not. And it is up to you. Because offending someone is not The same as attacking someone. And offending someone isn't The same as 'exerting a right to be offensive'. Because offense is in The eye of The beholder.
Shiranu, i understand and appreciate how you wish to defend The rights of those, historically or presently, less fortunate than yourself. But there simply is no such thing as a right to 'not be offended'. And if i were a praying man, i'd pray there'll never be such a thing.
In any case, there's nothing wrong with caring about your cultural heritage. But just because one thing has certain meaning to you, you Should not go around assuming everyone ties your meaning to that. A if someone has a different meaning for that thing; it fails to be an insult because it's simply a different interpretation.
The key is "not harming anyone" and I think that is where people err is the definition of "not harming". Loud noises from churches, synagogues, mosques, etc are offensive to most people not because of their meaning, but for the unwanted noise.
I once had a cheap0 apartment near a church (probably why it was cheap, but I wasn't aware of the noise at the time I signed the lease). The first time the bells rang in early morning, I practically fell out of bed from the noise-schock. I got out of the lease and moved to another apartment no where near load bells. But it was amazing to me that ANYONE was allowed to make so much noise. I thought is that, with some unavoidable sounds like mowing a lawn, your right to really loud noise ends at your property line.