In defense of accusations that mainstream media loves mass shootings Alisyn Camerota of CNN says they aren't ratings gold because Americans are sick of it, but the networks actions speak louder than her words. We see the perp in these reports much more than the victims. Here is an article from experts begging the media to quit making these nutjobs famous, and yet they continue to do it... because it's ratings gold. I doubt you need me you to do the search showing CNN breaking these rules for the media on how they should deal with mass shooters. (because they break them all the time)
https://drive.google.com/.../0B4Z7VkWcwLk.../view
https://www.reportingonmassshootings.org/
This plays on human’s genetic disposition to "fear" when statistically it's not something you "should" be afraid of. We had 606 mass shooting deaths in 2016, and while every death is sad, and those who die young are the worst to bear, we have over 2 million people die a year in this country. Rather than spending all this energy on something that accounts for a small percentage of deaths why not work on helping the 40+ thousands who commit suicide a year? Champion stem cell research and prevent the over 100+ thousand who die from Alzheimer’s. Stop denying climate change and fight to save the 150+ thousand a year who die from chronic lower respiratory disease. There are countries that have guns without mass shootings, as well as it being debatable that removal of guns reduces crime. (It may reduce murder slightly depending on where you look and how many years out you look but it increases rape, burglary, etc)
https://www.massshootingtracker.org/data/2016
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/deaths.htm
Rather than address the mass shooter address what is causing of the problem: Wealth inequality in America. Rather than giving the rich huge tax cuts and killing 100’s thousands in other countries because the military complex desires us to do it. Make it so our education system is funded so we can be more competitive with other countries in our education. Make it so our health care is funded so the families don’t stress about getting the treatment they need. Make it so that both parents don’t have to work two jobs just to afford to pay the bills and have the money needed for their children. Make it so that the 60+ thousand veterans are no longer homeless. Make it so that the 40+ million who are food-insecure in this country can stop worrying about where (and if) their next meal is coming from. Make it so that young people can see a bright future again in this country.
We have a finite amount of energy to champion causes I understand that guns may seem to be the problem because of the way media agencies like CNN spam them, but they are just a symptom of the greater problem affecting 99% of Americas who are struggling to make ends meet. It may be callous to turn away from those deaths (or any deaths) and say, “other things are more importantâ€, but we are talking about the greater good of the 320 million people who live in America, and the media spends WAY too much time making these shooters famous.
The only good news is bad news. But nevertheless ... sex sells. Bring on the dancing girls now ...
It's the gun sellers and the NRA who love mass shootings, given that the gun sales shoot through the roof after these things happen.
Gonna flog this around the Internet, are you?
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on February 23, 2018, 08:05:41 PM
Gonna flog this around the Internet, are you?
Sorry young lady..we don't advertise for free.-aitm
There is no need to insult me. Simply tell me what rule I broke. It explicitly states that I can link a website I own in your rules. I own FD. I am not a "new member", and I am obviously NOT a woman from my picture.
Good to see you didn't check the forum rules before joining.
The media isn't about reporting facts any more, unfortunately. They're about trying to capture your attention and get good ratings. Despite the world being safer than it has ever been, they have people paranoid that a random terrorist could take them out at any second.
Although people are actually safer than in years past, they feel a lot less safe.
Quote from: Shiranu on February 23, 2018, 08:29:07 PM
Good to see you didn't check the forum rules before joining.
I did read the rules. I assume you are talking about this rule:
2.
No spam. Commercial messages or advertisements
by new members will be deleted immediately and the poster banned. Please note that the forum has an in-built filter able to detect most spam messages and put them in a “waiting for approval†section visible only staff members. Spam also includes cut-and-paste proselytizing and hit-and-run proselytizing. Sending members unwanted or offensive pm's is also considered spam. Similarly, starting new threads of the same topic or very similar topics will be considered spam as well.
8. Links to own websites, etc.: Members are only allowed to publish links to their websites, blogs or YouTube channels or similar items on the internet when they have been a member for three months and have a post count of at least thirty.
I created a replied to a post about why I was doing what I was doing, I did not send individual PMs to people. (the definition of spam)
I am not a "new member" the info for my website was in my signature (as stated that I can do), other than responding to why I was posting this topic in multiple places I have not mentioned by website before other than in my signature. My date registered is September 07, 2017.
So I have NOT broken any of the forum rules, and yet I'm being insulted by the mod and called a "lady".
anyone who "joins" is considered a new member, therefore.....I did not see a picture in your ave, therefore.....and if being called a lady is insulting to you then by all means I apologize.-aitm
The rules contradict your semantics. Rule #8 list "member" after 3 months and 30 posts, not "new member" as listed in rule #2. If the site defination of "new member" is anyone who "joins" then rule #8 needs to have the word "new" included. (also it might be a good idea to explain to your users that anyone who joined 5/29/2004 or later is considered a new member for all of eternity) I mean seriously just admit I didn't break the rules already, if you want to change the rules please do so and I will abide by them, but don't act like I did not follow the rules of this site, and my post and signature was deleted anyway.
Secondly you used "young lady" as an insult. If you didn't know my gender you could have used something gender neutral to address me. Calling me a young lady is you attempting to insult me in a sexist way. I do not feel that woman are inferior to mean, or that being a woman is a insult, so I don't accept your apology. (also it does not sound sincer in the least)
If you want me off the site, just say the word thunderbird...
Quote from: Coveny on February 23, 2018, 11:05:03 PM
Secondly you used "young lady" as an insult.
Oh really. Then I apologize for calling you "young lady". Now everybody is happy.
Quote from: aitm on February 24, 2018, 04:49:55 PM
Oh really. Then I apologize for calling you "young lady". Now everybody is happy.
Thank you.
So I can put my website back in my signature as the rules state I am allowed to do?
Quote from: Coveny on February 23, 2018, 06:34:04 PM
In defense of accusations that mainstream media loves mass shootings Alisyn Camerota of CNN says they aren't ratings gold because Americans are sick of it, but the networks actions speak louder than her words. We see the perp in these reports much more than the victims.
Americans are not "sick of it" so much as they are sick of gun fnatics defending their right to own mass destrucyion guns.
So what are the defenses of the gun fanatics?
"We have a right to bear arms" Yes, those were muskets. Own all the muskets you want. Let's get rid of all the guns the FOUNDERS DIDN'T contemplate.
"Guns protect us". No, you are more likely to die by a gun if you own one.
"Schools should have teachers bearing guns". No, teachers are not mindset to kill children. I thought back to all my high school teachers and the only one I would trust to actually fight back ws nearly blind and couldn't hit a barn wall from inside one.
"We need to harden our schools". Yeah, metal detectors. Do you know of any school backpack that would pass a metal detector? That would be airport mentality every day for every student. You want to guess the cost to do that financially and psychologically?
"Secure the school outside "Any security system can be thwarted. There is no way around the fire alarm, no way around the confusion at changes of classes. no way around someone arranging a firedoor to be taped unlocked.
"More security guards". The security guard at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School was afraid to enter the building. He knew he was outgunned. That was an act of cowardice, but he didn't want to die. Brave people cost more and we can't afford them (sadly).
I imagine there can be more objections to the NRA dreams, but that is a start.
Yes, I have known several men with a gun fetish. Automatics are completely unnecessary.
Quote from: Coveny on February 24, 2018, 08:17:31 PM
Thank you.
So I can put my website back in my signature as the rules state I am allowed to do?
I did not recognize you and failed to check your previous history. I indeed acted hastily. You may restore your siggy and my apologies.
Quote from: aitm on February 25, 2018, 08:24:47 AM
I did not recognize you and failed to check your previous history. I indeed acted hastily. You may restore your siggy and my apologies.
How about we not put websites in our sigs at all. They seem mostly like ads. And ads don't influence me but they can be annoying...
Quote from: Cavebear on February 25, 2018, 08:28:30 AM
How about we not put websites in our sigs at all. They seem mostly like ads. And ads don't influence me but they can be annoying...
Shit. Now I'll have to build myself a website, and I don't even have a Facebook page.
Quote from: SGOS on February 25, 2018, 09:09:11 AM
Shit. Now I'll have to build myself a website, and I don't even have a Facebook page.
I'm not on any media other than here (I suppose) and a blog. I don't miss the constant connections.
Quote from: Cavebear on February 25, 2018, 09:56:25 AM
I'm not on any media other than here (I suppose) and a blog. I don't miss the constant connections.
I did have a Facebook page one time, but closed it down. I got tired of reading stuff from friends of friends talking to my other friends, even though I mostly agreed. I guess I could have shut some of that clutter off, but I didn't find any of it interesting. I'm also not particularly interested in knowing what people I barely know anymore are doing with their lives, nor was I interested in keeping everyone else informed of my daily life. I don't need a lot of human contact. This forum is the only one I participate in. It's enough for all the contact I need, and supplies enough opportunity to discuss different topics with people I mostly like. My friends usually tell me when something happens to someone I know on Facebook, because people like to talk about each other. But it's usually kind of gossipy, and it makes me uncomfortable.
Quote from: SGOS on February 25, 2018, 10:45:14 AM
I did have a Facebook page one time, but closed it down. I got tired of reading stuff from friends of friends talking to my other friends, even though I mostly agreed. I guess I could have shut some of that clutter off, but I didn't find any of it interesting. I'm also not particularly interested in knowing what people I barely know anymore are doing with their lives, nor was I interested in keeping everyone else informed of my daily life. I don't need a lot of human contact. This forum is the only one I participate in. It's enough for all the contact I need, and supplies enough opportunity to discuss different topics with people I mostly like. My friends usually tell me when something happens to someone I know on Facebook, because people like to talk about each other. But it's usually kind of gossipy, and it makes me uncomfortable.
I expect we are mostly alike in that here. Constant gossipy social chatter isn't what I need. I do fine in my own mind most of the time. But there are issues I care about, and I care about them mostly from a rational non-religious POV!
Hurray! We have found people like US!
Quote from: aitm on February 25, 2018, 08:24:47 AM
I did not recognize you and failed to check your previous history. I indeed acted hastily. You may restore your siggy and my apologies.
Thank you very much.
Quote from: Coveny on February 25, 2018, 11:24:53 AM
Thank you very much.
Greetings Amoeba, LOL! If AITM vouches for you, welcome. We DO get some strange new people here, so it is good to check.
Quote from: Blackleaf on February 23, 2018, 09:12:50 PM
The media isn't about reporting facts any more, unfortunately. They're about trying to capture your attention and get good ratings. Despite the world being safer than it has ever been, they have people paranoid that a random terrorist could take them out at any second.
Agreed. Are you familiar with the fact like 6 companies control the mainstream media?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PStpvviPgxk
So if we take that into consideration we could go a little conspiracy theory and say that there is a method to their madness that goes beyond getting good ratings. It could be a case of using Huxley's book as a field guide on how to control the masses. Or simply a case of having a small group of topics which are hotly debated to keep the masses distracted.
Quote from: Cavebear on February 24, 2018, 11:23:51 PM
Americans are not "sick of it" so much as they are sick of gun fnatics defending their right to own mass destrucyion guns.
So what are the defenses of the gun fanatics?
"We have a right to bear arms" Yes, those were muskets. Own all the muskets you want. Let's get rid of all the guns the FOUNDERS DIDN'T contemplate.
"Guns protect us". No, you are more likely to die by a gun if you own one.
"Schools should have teachers bearing guns". No, teachers are not mindset to kill children. I thought back to all my high school teachers and the only one I would trust to actually fight back ws nearly blind and couldn't hit a barn wall from inside one.
"We need to harden our schools". Yeah, metal detectors. Do you know of any school backpack that would pass a metal detector? That would be airport mentality every day for every student. You want to guess the cost to do that financially and psychologically?
"Secure the school outside "Any security system can be thwarted. There is no way around the fire alarm, no way around the confusion at changes of classes. no way around someone arranging a firedoor to be taped unlocked.
"More security guards". The security guard at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School was afraid to enter the building. He knew he was outgunned. That was an act of cowardice, but he didn't want to die. Brave people cost more and we can't afford them (sadly).
I imagine there can be more objections to the NRA dreams, but that is a start.
I didn't really want to make this a debate about should we are should be not have guns but I'll give you a general rebuttal on your points.
1) Banning Guns is the solution
You may believe that control is effective, but there is a lot of research that proves it is not. Australia ban on guns worked for a few years while the black market built their infrastructure to import guns into the country. The already have more rape than we do, and murder, and other various crimes are rising. If you look at countries where it’s been in place for a long time like the U.K. you’ll find that murder, rape, assault, burglary are all higher than they are in the U.S. Plus countries like Switzerland that have a very high gun ownership rate (as opposed to guns per capita which is the general bar used to give the U.S. big numbers) have very lower murder, rape, assault, burglary that most of the globe.
2) Armed people don’t stop/lower body counts
The basis of this meme is that there were bodyguards and Reagan still got shot, so having armed bodyguards won’t help against an armed gunman. It only takes a little bit of critical thinking to know that the cops (armed bodyguards) will be called to deal with the situation, so armed bodyguards are the solution to lowering and stopping nutjobs with guns. (as is the case with Reagan) Every world leader (including the pope) has armed guards protecting them because it works, and gun free zones don’t.
3) Arming teachers
I strongly disagree with forcing anyone to carry a gun that doesn’t want to carry a gun, but there are plenty of teachers in this country who want to carry guns to school but can’t because they are gun free zones. So the concept shouldn’t be that we are forcing teachers to carry guns, but that we allow teachers the right to carry guns if they so choose, and put laws in place to protect their right to defend children from an active shooter situation.
4) Mass shootings are a huge problem
In 2014 606 died in mass shootings. Now can't stand children dying but the hypocrisy of getting upset over 600 people dying when we are killing 100s of thousand a year in other countries simply pisses me off. Of the horrible things that happen in this country mass shootings affect a very small portion of the population. We have millions of children … MILLIONS… who don’t know where their next meal is going to come from and this is year after year, and the number just keeps growing year after year. There are other things, but how much mainstream media time does that get in comparison with mass shootings? Next to nothing, because that wouldn’t divide this country and make the poor fight the poor, THAT would address the REAL cause of mass shootings… wealth inequality is out of control in this country!
5) Mass shootings are a symptom of economic problems
Let’s look at the big three that leads to mass shootings.
- A) Education funding continues to shrink. This directly relates to s****y teachers (you think the best and the brightest want to live in poverty?), s****y schools (no AC in the south? Seriously?), no counselors (or even training on helping fucked up kids), etc.
B) Health care is insane. This means that children who need mental help adjusting won’t get the treatment they need. It means parents won’t get the help they need. And that’s not just mental health (which we continue to put known crazy people on the street to fend for themselves) that also includes physical as well.
C) No money means no future. You don’t think children can see how bleak their future is? (millennials aren’t having children because they can’t afford it) You don’t think both their parents working at least one, and sometimes two jobs to pay the bills isn’t screwing them up? You don’t think that seeing no one you know being able to afford to retire doesn’t mess with people’s heads? Most people will work until they die, or they’ll be forced to live off cat food, and hope that they don’t need lifesaving medical attention.
Look I’m for FBI background checks, and proof of ID, and those things are in place already. I even support a practical test to prove that you can hit what you are aiming at which isn’t in place, but “gun control†or taking away guns isn't the solution. Fully automatics are already illegal. Silencers are illegal. And we continue to write new gun laws every year limiting guns further and further while we write legislation that gives the rich more money, and makes life harder for 99% of the population. But the media wants you to focus on guns while our corrupt government turns everyone into debt slaves, and screws this country over for personal gain. Don’t tell me it’s just the republicans, or just the democrats or whatever, it doesn’t matter what face the rich elite use they continue to screw this over this country not “for the people†anymore, it's for the rich elite. To do it, they have to keep us distracted…
Americans are murderers. Just ask the Native or African-Americans ;-( It can't be cured ... no social problems can be, except thru extermination of the whole population. We don't have problems with Babylonian temple prostitutes anymore, because there are no more Babylonians.
Quote from: Coveny on February 25, 2018, 11:49:59 AM
I didn't really want to make this a debate about should we are should be not have guns but I'll give you a general rebuttal on your points.
1) Banning Guns is the solution
2) Armed people don’t stop/lower body counts
3) Arming teachers
4) Mass shootings are a huge problem
5) Mass shootings are a symptom of economic problems
Please give sources for the claims in 1, 2, 3, and 4. Your claims sound like straight off the NRA talking points. Your energetic claims mean nothing with some backup. 5 gets you way of topic and is really a bit off the rails, but you might want to address those as a separate post.
Quote from: Baruch on February 25, 2018, 11:58:13 AM
Americans are murderers. Just ask the Native or African-Americans ;-( It can't be cured ... no social problems can be, except thru extermination of the whole population. We don't have problems with Babylonian temple prostitutes anymore, because there are no more Babylonians.
First, your initial statement is utterly incorrect. Most Americans are NOT murderers. If you mean the past, so were all people everywhere much of time. History was brutal sometimes everywhere.
No, most of the really lethal weapons are owned by 3% of the population. And most of the lethal shooters buy them legally or steal them from relatives who did.
That can be stopped. I'll toss in my old 12 shotgun )sitting in the basement closet for years into a melting pot if others will, and I mean everyone.
Quote from: Baruch on February 25, 2018, 11:58:13 AM
Americans are murderers. Just ask the Native or African-Americans ;-( It can't be cured ... no social problems can be, except thru extermination of the whole population. We don't have problems with Babylonian temple prostitutes anymore, because there are no more Babylonians.
Everyone is capable of murder, we're just discussing the factors that bring them to commit the act.
Coveny, I agree with most of your points but I don't see evidence to support mass shootings are a direct result of economic problems or wealth inequity. The Vegas shooter was a wealthy real estate investor, the Sandy Hook shooter was diagnosed and treated for mental health problems, the Pulse nightclub shooter was explicitly clear he was religiously motivated, the Columbine shooters were sociopaths, juvenile felons and received treatment for mental health problems. Dylan Roof may have believed blacks are victimizing whites but his main concern was "you rape our women", so he walked into a church and murdered nine black people. I'm just not seeing economic concerns, poor education or lack of access to healthcare as predictors of mass shootings.
Quote from: Cavebear on February 25, 2018, 08:28:30 AM
How about we not put websites in our sigs at all. They seem mostly like ads. And ads don't influence me but they can be annoying...
Hopefully this won't get flagged again, but I'll try to explain how I feel about it. (I use a blog as an example because you have a blog) Being able to talk here, and promote your blog means that if someone likes what you say here they may want to check out your blog, or learn more about you. Anything online is about content, so you have an option to provide content on your blog or content here. The forums here would prefer you create content here right? So they allow you to link your blog in your signature as nod or thank you for providing content here. As a blogger maybe you've heard of guest blogging? This would be similar to that in that content is produced on your blog but they still get a link back to their blog.
Now that's an overly simplistic version of the mutually beneficial relationship but hopefully it explains how I'm not doing anything horrible. Not to mention if you are like most people you have the ability to filter out most of that type of stuff and don't really read it anymore. Obviously spending money on advertising would net me better results, but I'm paying with time (content) rather than money for the ability to have that in my signature, and the more people in the conversation the bigger and better the conversation becomes, which means more traffic for this website.
Quote from: Cavebear on February 25, 2018, 11:30:08 AM
Greetings Amoeba, LOL! If AITM vouches for you, welcome. We DO get some strange new people here, so it is good to check.
Thanks.
Just to qualify that I wouldn't say AITM "vouches for me", just that I did not break the forum rules.
Quote from: Cavebear on February 25, 2018, 12:14:47 PM
Please give sources for the claims in 1, 2, 3, and 4. Your claims sound like straight off the NRA talking points. Your energetic claims mean nothing with some backup. 5 gets you way of topic and is really a bit off the rails, but you might want to address those as a separate post.
I link the exact number of sources for my claims as you did for your claims...
I disagree #5 is the topic, mass shootings is a symptom of that topic.
Quote from: Coveny on February 25, 2018, 12:38:29 PM
Everyone is capable of murder, we're just discussing the factors that bring them to commit the act.
That is laughable. No, we aren't discussing the factors that bring people to commit murder. That is psychirty. What we are discussing is HOW people commit murder. And generally, it is with guns. I can't recall the last time in my lifetime a crazed knife-wielder (or a musket-owner for that matter), killed more than a couple people.
Quote from: Coveny on February 25, 2018, 12:38:29 PM
Everyone is capable of murder, we're just discussing the factors that bring them to commit the act.
People do everything for psychological reasons. What feeds psychology? Murder is externalized suicide, suicide is internalized murder ... why do people commit suicide? I have had to deal with one suicide in my family, and one attempted suicide. Another family member died in suspicious circumstances, so it may have been murder. Another family member, died "by cop". The oldest grandson of my rabbi, was nearly killed by a shooter he knew, just a few months ago. Every one of these had unique circumstances. I don't see any generalization that will explain it all, other than something facile like ... Americans are murderers.
Using politics or economics as an explanation go to ... is what one would expect with a Marxist, just saying. Revolutions are rare events, not unlike volcanic eruptions. If you are poor, or badly parented ... does that excuse you? Sounds like identity politics to me ;-(
Quote from: GSOgymrat on February 25, 2018, 12:41:49 PM
Coveny, I agree with most of your points but I don't see evidence to support mass shootings are a direct result of economic problems or wealth inequity. The Vegas shooter was a wealthy real estate investor, the Sandy Hook shooter was diagnosed and treated for mental health problems, the Pulse nightclub shooter was explicitly clear he was religiously motivated, the Columbine shooters were sociopaths, juvenile felons and received treatment for mental health problems. Dylan Roof may have believed blacks are victimizing whites but his main concern was "you rape our women", so he walked into a church and murdered nine black people. I'm just not seeing economic concerns, poor education or lack of access to healthcare as predictors of mass shootings.
You mention mental health issues... but access to healthcare isn't relevant?
You say the vegas shooter was "wealthy"... but 3 million isn't enough to retire on so he's not
https://esimoney.com/3-million-not-enough-retire/
We have racism, sexism, etc based killing... but poor education isn't an issue?
If you look at the whole problem rather than just a part of it, it all comes back to wealth inequality. The poor fighting the poor over the scrapes that the wealthy haven't hoarded... yet. Creating a tension that is destroying this country. 99% of the population is angry and frustrated in a situation they see no way out of, so some unsurprisingly turn to violence.
Quote from: Cavebear on February 25, 2018, 01:05:10 PM
That is laughable. No, we aren't discussing the factors that bring people to commit murder. That is psychirty. What we are discussing is HOW people commit murder. And generally, it is with guns. I can't recall the last time in my lifetime a crazed knife-wielder (or a musket-owner for that matter), killed more than a couple people.
True ... but the solution is to lock everyone up, guilty until proven innocent (won't happen)? Micro-management of the population, what isn't to like?
Quote from: Coveny on February 25, 2018, 01:07:43 PM
You mention mental health issues... but access to healthcare isn't relevant?
You say the vegas shooter was "wealthy"... but 3 million isn't enough to retire on so he's not
https://esimoney.com/3-million-not-enough-retire/
We have racism, sexism, etc based killing... but poor education isn't an issue?
If you look at the whole problem rather than just a part of it, it all comes back to wealth inequality. The poor fighting the poor over the scrapes that the wealthy haven't hoarded... yet. Creating a tension that is destroying this country. 99% of the population is angry and frustrated in a situation they see no way out of, so some unsurprisingly turn to violence.
Lack of education produces bigots? How Middle Class of you. The US should burn, we are 5% of the population consuming 25% of the planet. Marxists agree that Capitalism has to go, we need all-seeing commissars.
Mass shootings are big news, and so they get reported. The responses to them generate controversy and discussion, which also get reported.
Nothing surprising. Big news is big news.
You clearly have this all figured out, so anything other than agreeing with you would be a waste of my time.
Quote from: Baruch on February 25, 2018, 01:07:23 PM
People do everything for psychological reasons. What feeds psychology? Murder is externalized suicide, suicide is internalized murder ... why do people commit suicide? I have had to deal with one suicide in my family, and one attempted suicide. Another family member died in suspicious circumstances, so it may have been murder. Another family member, died "by cop". The oldest grandson of my rabbi, was nearly killed by a shooter he knew, just a few months ago. Every one of these had unique circumstances. I don't see any generalization that will explain it all, other than something facile like ... Americans are murderers.
Using politics or economics as an explanation go to ... is what one would expect with a Marxist, just saying. Revolutions are rare events, not unlike volcanic eruptions. If you are poor, or badly parented ... does that excuse you? Sounds like identity politics to me ;-(
I appreciate and do care about your family history. My family has had its own problems, but not those. Not suggesting it is genetic in any way. It is probably sad random events.
But what were the means? Would they have died if no guns were easily available? Few people stab themselves to death. And don't jest bout Lizzie Borden or Brutus please, my patience with you is wearing thin.
Who kills themselves in the loneliness of the night with a carving knif?. Sure they CAN, but it isn't common. Guns making killing others or self just too much easier.
Quote from: SGOS on February 25, 2018, 10:45:14 AM
I did have a Facebook page one time, but closed it down. I got tired of reading stuff from friends of friends talking to my other friends, even though I mostly agreed. I guess I could have shut some of that clutter off, but I didn't find any of it interesting. I'm also not particularly interested in knowing what people I barely know anymore are doing with their lives, nor was I interested in keeping everyone else informed of my daily life. I don't need a lot of human contact. This forum is the only one I participate in. It's enough for all the contact I need, and supplies enough opportunity to discuss different topics with people I mostly like. My friends usually tell me when something happens to someone I know on Facebook, because people like to talk about each other. But it's usually kind of gossipy, and it makes me uncomfortable.
I had a facebook page for about a week. I grew more and more bored with the whole thing and just stopped visiting it or going on facebook. I guess it may still be there--don't care enough to find out.
Quote from: GSOgymrat on February 25, 2018, 01:19:25 PM
You clearly have this all figured out, so anything other than agreeing with you would be a waste of my time.
Unless you have something to add...
Quote from: Cavebear on February 25, 2018, 01:20:46 PM
Guns making killing others or self just too much easier.
Access to lethal means is a major factor in completed suicides. Imagine having a suicide pill in your medicine cabinet or a button hidden in your closet that would instantly end your life whenever you were ready to give up. That is what a gun is.
Quote from: Atheon on February 25, 2018, 01:11:25 PM
Mass shootings are big news, and so they get reported. The responses to them generate controversy and discussion, which also get reported.
Nothing surprising. Big news is big news.
I think you have it a bit wrong. School shootings get reported because they are horrible effects of our gun culture and because they are happening to often.
So that Gun-lovers can shoot AR-15s in sport". What is more valuable? Children or sport?
Quote from: Cavebear on February 25, 2018, 01:05:10 PM
That is laughable. No, we aren't discussing the factors that bring people to commit murder. That is psychirty. What we are discussing is HOW people commit murder. And generally, it is with guns. I can't recall the last time in my lifetime a crazed knife-wielder (or a musket-owner for that matter), killed more than a couple people.
I'm discussing the factors that bring people to commit murder, and it's more than psychiatry, and what the choose to do it with shouldn't matter.
As far as the side topic of how people commit murder, and the claim it's "generally with guns". Rather than going with the obvious one (Bombings) I'll go with the one that is killing millions (not thousands) of people a year and no one is talking about.
https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2016-05-03/medical-errors-are-third-leading-cause-of-death-in-the-us
People are generally killed by doctors. BAN DOCTORS!!!!
But even if we just look at just homicide rates (which isn't fair to guns because it isn't the whole crime story) "with guns" versus "without guns" where they have been banned for a long time it doesn't stack up well:
http://igeek.com/w/U.S._vs_U.K._-_Crime/Murder
Quote from: GSOgymrat on February 25, 2018, 01:19:25 PM
You clearly have this all figured out, so anything other than agreeing with you would be a waste of my time.
And yet you didn't agree with me and still made your snarky response...
If you can't bring forth a good argument to defend your position it's cool man, but don't act like it's my problem. :)
Quote from: GSOgymrat on February 25, 2018, 01:33:59 PM
Access to lethal means is a major factor in completed suicides. Imagine having a suicide pill in your medicine cabinet or a button hidden in your closet that would instantly end your life whenever you were ready to give up. That is what a gun is.
Agreed. Research does support that position, BUT the factors that drive someone to suicide... overlap with the ones that drive people to murder in some instances.
Quote from: Cavebear on February 25, 2018, 01:41:29 PM
I think you have it a bit wrong. School shootings get reported because they are horrible effects of our gun culture and because they are happening to often.
So that Gun-lovers can shoot AR-15s in sport". What is more valuable? Children or sport?
Cars kill 30 thousand people a day. What's more valuable human lives or a car?
Ladders kill 100s of people a day. What's more valuable human life or a ladder?
Stops working when you apply it to anything you want doesn't it? (well except pot because pot doesn't kill anyone, but it's still illegal and that makes sense somehow...)
Quote from: Coveny on February 25, 2018, 12:59:03 PM
Thanks.
Just to qualify that I wouldn't say AITM "vouches for me", just that I did not break the forum rules.
And I see the difference. My apologies AITM...
Quote from: Coveny on February 25, 2018, 02:39:19 PM
Cars kill 30 thousand people a day. What's more valuable human lives or a car?
Ladders kill 100s of people a day. What's more valuable human life or a ladder?
Stops working when you apply it to anything you want doesn't it? (well except pot because pot doesn't kill anyone, but it's still illegal and that makes sense somehow...)
Cars and guns both operate as intended. But the purpose of a car is transportation while the purpose of an Ar-15 is to mass-kill. A slight difference.
Quote from: Coveny on February 25, 2018, 02:39:19 PM
Cars kill 30 thousand people a day. What's more valuable human lives or a car?
Ladders kill 100s of people a day. What's more valuable human life or a ladder?
Stops working when you apply it to anything you want doesn't it? (well except pot because pot doesn't kill anyone, but it's still illegal and that makes sense somehow...)
We need cars to get to work. We need ladders to reach high places. We need automatic machines guns with large magazines to...?
I wondered what "bump stocks" were, having not heard of them, and I was totally dumbfounded to see what they can do!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQcE6CW91UU
How can these things possibly be legal!?
Quote from: Cavebear on February 25, 2018, 02:55:21 PM
Cars and guns both operate as intended. But the purpose of a car is transportation while the purpose of an Ar-15 is to mass-kill. A slight difference.
I had his semi-automatic 22 (not as high a power but semi-auto and very close to the same grain) for years when I was growing up that purpose was mass-kill, its purpose was hunting, and providing food. It did a fine job at it. I've also used a .306 which has similar power for hunting deer, and again no mass-kill purpose, it was a bolt action though I would have loved a semi-automatic instead as it just makes life easier when you are hunting. I get that guns scare people who don't know how to use them. But guns have a purpose in our survival, and just like cars they can cause harm and death to humans, AND we could live without them both. The comparison is valid, and the only difference is that you don't like guns but you like cars, so rather than addressing the one that kills 30k and injuries millions a year, you'd rather address the one that kills 8k and injuries thousands a year. Just own it.
Quote from: Blackleaf on February 25, 2018, 03:21:03 PM
We need cars to get to work. We need ladders to reach high places. We need automatic machines guns with large magazines to...?
Hunt. Growing up everyone I knew provided food on their table from hunting. Is eating important to you?
PS no one has machine guns, full automatics have been banned for years. Also magazines sizes are already regulated.
PSS this isn't the topic, the topic is about the reasons people murder, and the role mainstream media plays in that
Quote from: Coveny on February 25, 2018, 05:55:43 PM
I had his semi-automatic 22 (not as high a power but semi-auto and very close to the same grain) for years when I was growing up that purpose was mass-kill, its purpose was hunting, and providing food. It did a fine job at it. I've also used a .306 which has similar power for hunting deer, and again no mass-kill purpose, it was a bolt action though I would have loved a semi-automatic instead as it just makes life easier when you are hunting. I get that guns scare people who don't know how to use them. But guns have a purpose in our survival, and just like cars they can cause harm and death to humans, AND we could live without them both. The comparison is valid, and the only difference is that you don't like guns but you like cars, so rather than addressing the one that kills 30k and injuries millions a year, you'd rather address the one that kills 8k and injuries thousands a year. Just own it.
Cars and guns do not equate. I spent 12 yrs in the Army and National Guard. I fired expert with the M-14; M-16; .45 pistol; and the .35 Police Special. I don't own a single gun--but I loved firing them and have no problem with people owning them for hunting and target shooting and recreation. But I don't know why anybody but a soldier on active duty needs more than a 5 round clip, needs a semi or automatic firing weapon, or a large caliber weapon such as a .50 cal weapon of any kind, or any of the medium weapons such as machine guns of any kind or any heavy weapon. They are designed for one thing--killing people. Cars are not designed to kill people; in fact the manufacturers take pains to keep that from happening. Just about anything sold in stores can be used to kill people, but not more than one or two at a time and none are designed to kill. Only guns are designed for that purpose.
I worked for a rich guy in Willits who had a 1919/a machine gun, like this one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q94etpfMB3A
I got to fire it once, but I can't say it was really fun. I'd rather just shoot targets with a .22.
Quote from: Cavebear on February 25, 2018, 01:20:46 PM
I appreciate and do care about your family history. My family has had its own problems, but not those. Not suggesting it is genetic in any way. It is probably sad random events.
But what were the means? Would they have died if no guns were easily available? Few people stab themselves to death. And don't jest bout Lizzie Borden or Brutus please, my patience with you is wearing thin.
Who kills themselves in the loneliness of the night with a carving knif?. Sure they CAN, but it isn't common. Guns making killing others or self just too much easier.
I responded to the OP, not to your sane POV regarding automatic weapons. And no, not one (other than the death by cop) was by gunfire. The point was ... the OP was going to give us his reason that if only we are Marxist, we can stop all this Capitalist killing (based on ideology, not evidence).
Quote from: Mike Cl on February 25, 2018, 01:27:06 PM
I had a facebook page for about a week. I grew more and more bored with the whole thing and just stopped visiting it or going on facebook. I guess it may still be there--don't care enough to find out.
You are not helping the authorities keep track of your mental health ;-)
Coveny - comparing the US to GB or Japan ... is apples and oranges, or at least apples, fish & chips, and sushi. Culture makes a difference. On the other hand, Japanese with nukes would make me very nervous ;-( If you think the solution is to make the US into Japan or GB ... then you can hold your breath until you turn blue.
Quote from: Coveny on February 25, 2018, 05:58:33 PM
Hunt. Growing up everyone I knew provided food on their table from hunting.
Frankly thats mostly bullshit. Hunting brings in very little food on an annual basis for any family. Hunting is far more useful in keeping the animal population stable and healthy. At least use that reason. Hunting for food is bull shit in this country. Sure it saves a couple bucks a year, but if compared to the time involved, the time wasted in the hunt, the cost to process (cause the vast majority have no idea how to process a deer) the beer involved...the food bought for the hunt, etc....it ends up cheaper to buy meat from the store.
And save your breath, I grew up in Michigan hunting and fishing and although it is a nice and feel good slop...hunting does not save any money at the household level.
Quote from: Coveny on February 25, 2018, 05:58:33 PM
Hunt. Growing up everyone I knew provided food on their table from hunting. Is eating important to you?
PS no one has machine guns, full automatics have been banned for years. Also magazines sizes are already regulated.
PSS this isn't the topic, the topic is about the reasons people murder, and the role mainstream media plays in that
Do people use automatic weapons for hunting? Admitedly, I've never been hunting and likely never will, but I would expect that hunters would prefer fewer bullets in their prey, especially when the intention is to eat their meat. One shot through the head or the heart should do it. Why spray one hundred bullets at a deer? It seems to me that automated weapons are specifically designed for killing large groups of people.
Are they banned, really? If so, I do wonder where these mass shooters have been buying/finding them...
Quote from: aitm on February 25, 2018, 09:52:00 PM
Hunting brings in very little food on an annual basis for any family. Hunting is far more useful in keeping the animal population stable and healthy. At least use that reason. Hunting for food is bull shit in this country. Sure it saves a couple bucks a year
Food is an incidental byproduct of hunting but not a cost effective source of nutrition, because the cost of procurement exceeds the cost of meat from the grocery store. Hunters disregard the problem of economics, because they are engaged in a fantasy of man over beast, a battle of wits, where the hunted is vanquished, as the hunter returns to his home proud to be the competent provider who will carry his family safely through another brutal winter.
A more astute provider would get a paper route, and send his wife to the market with the money he earns.
Don't get me wrong. I think the associated fantasy is a charming aspect of the hunt, and there is satisfaction in overpowering a large animal in its environment. I'm not knocking this recreation. I've been there and hunted for years in Montana, where every fall the forests would ring with the crack of rifles, and the backs of pickups overflowed with dead carcasses as hunters returned from a successful hunt. Deer would hang in garages and back yards for two months, and family dogs would drag discarded deer hides onto their porches. But it is an expensive way to put meat on the table. I suppose you could look at it as free meat, as long as you admit you were going to kill the animal anyway, and that was the real reason you bought all the equipment necessary to do it.
Quote from: SGOS on February 26, 2018, 03:17:49 AM
Food is an incidental byproduct of hunting but not a cost effective source of nutrition,
Hunting, legally at least, is a very inefficient way to provide food for the family. Less than half get a deer so now you actually wasted money for nothing. Very few people need to hunt to supplement their food sources. I can see fishing a far more economical net gain. But what would the fun be in that shooting into the water?
Quote from: aitm on February 26, 2018, 07:24:54 AM
Hunting, legally at least
Jacking deer at night with a spotlight is probably somewhat more cost effective than legal hunting, assuming you avoid getting caught, but unless there are massive food shortages, modern day agriculture can still do it cheaper. Hunting lost its vital status when man progressed from a hunter gatherer society to an agrarian one. Today, hunting is a tradition.
Quote from: aitm on February 26, 2018, 07:24:54 AM
Hunting, legally at least, is a very inefficient way to provide food for the family. Less than half get a deer so now you actually wasted money for nothing. Very few people need to hunt to supplement their food sources. I can see fishing a far more economical net gain. But what would the fun be in that shooting into the water?
Real hillbillies use dynamite, to kill a lot of fish at the same time ;-)
I actually once shot a 2lb bass with my .357. It was in about 2' of water and I aimed 4" below it and opened it up. Never tried again, figured leave luck as it is so I could brag about it.
In my teens, My father and I used to shoot spawning carp with a bow. The arrow was attached to a reel on the bow. The spawning season lasted a couple of weeks, and carp would spawn in the shallows. There would be periods of quite, while standing in the boat at the ready, which would be interrupted by a wake appearing on the surface before the carp would actually break the surface, and then they would thrash about spraying water all over. You had a second or two to get off a shot. It would be a busy day. We would get sunburned and tired. We would give the carp to unlucky fishermen fishing on the banks upriver, while the carp were busy doing their thing in the shallows. Some of the carp weighed close to 40 pounds.
But a .357? I never thought of that. Is that even legal?
Probably late to the party and this probably already taken care of, but, no you are not breaking rules. You aren't a "new member" as you have been here for quite a while, despite your semi-low post count. And putting a link in your signature is not against the rules, at least once you're no longer a new member.
Anyway. as you were.
Quote from: Coveny on February 23, 2018, 11:05:03 PM
I did read the rules. I assume you are talking about this rule:
2. No spam. Commercial messages or advertisements by new members will be deleted immediately and the poster banned. Please note that the forum has an in-built filter able to detect most spam messages and put them in a “waiting for approval†section visible only staff members. Spam also includes cut-and-paste proselytizing and hit-and-run proselytizing. Sending members unwanted or offensive pm's is also considered spam. Similarly, starting new threads of the same topic or very similar topics will be considered spam as well.
8. Links to own websites, etc.: Members are only allowed to publish links to their websites, blogs or YouTube channels or similar items on the internet when they have been a member for three months and have a post count of at least thirty.
I created a replied to a post about why I was doing what I was doing, I did not send individual PMs to people. (the definition of spam)
I am not a "new member" the info for my website was in my signature (as stated that I can do), other than responding to why I was posting this topic in multiple places I have not mentioned by website before other than in my signature. My date registered is September 07, 2017.
So I have NOT broken any of the forum rules, and yet I'm being insulted by the mod and called a "lady".
anyone who "joins" is considered a new member, therefore.....I did not see a picture in your ave, therefore.....and if being called a lady is insulting to you then by all means I apologize.-aitm
The rules contradict your semantics. Rule #8 list "member" after 3 months and 30 posts, not "new member" as listed in rule #2. If the site defination of "new member" is anyone who "joins" then rule #8 needs to have the word "new" included. (also it might be a good idea to explain to your users that anyone who joined 5/29/2004 or later is considered a new member for all of eternity) I mean seriously just admit I didn't break the rules already, if you want to change the rules please do so and I will abide by them, but don't act like I did not follow the rules of this site, and my post and signature was deleted anyway.
Secondly you used "young lady" as an insult. If you didn't know my gender you could have used something gender neutral to address me. Calling me a young lady is you attempting to insult me in a sexist way. I do not feel that woman are inferior to mean, or that being a woman is a insult, so I don't accept your apology. (also it does not sound sincer in the least)
Quote from: aitm on February 26, 2018, 03:12:36 PM
I actually once shot a 2lb bass with my .357. It was in about 2' of water and I aimed 4" below it and opened it up. Never tried again, figured leave luck as it is so I could brag about it.
Musky fishermen often had a 22 pistol in the tackle box. I think I recall hearing they didn't actually shoot the fish, but would aim just above the head. The impact of the bullet on the water would stun the fish, so they could haul it into the boat, but I don't have a highly reliable source on that.
Quote from: SGOS on February 26, 2018, 03:44:33 PM
Musky fishermen often had a 22 pistol in the tackle box. I think I recall hearing they didn't actually shoot the fish, but would aim just above the head. The impact of the bullet on the water would stun the fish, so they could haul it into the boat, but I don't have a highly reliable source on that.
I was a more direct fish-killer on the rare times when I killed one (when someone else wanted it for dinner). A glass coke bottle firmly to the head was sufficient (I saved an old one for that purpose). I had a friend who had a better way. He cut off the bottom of a baseball bat, hollowed it mostly out, and filled it with molten lead. THAT had an impact!
Quote from: Cavebear on February 28, 2018, 12:13:12 AM
I was a more direct fish-killer on the rare times when I killed one (when someone else wanted it for dinner). A glass coke bottle firmly to the head was sufficient (I saved an old one for that purpose). I had a friend who had a better way. He cut off the bottom of a baseball bat, hollowed it mostly out, and filled it with molten lead. THAT had an impact!
I was with my father the morning he caught his first and only legal sized musky. He used a gaff hook to haul it into the boat and a club to beat it into submission. There was minute of chaos before he could get the fish under control and remove the hook. I was maybe 10 years old, but it's one of those unforgettable memories, although probably altered with time. It plays in my mind like fuzzy movie that at best creates a general impression of the event.
Quote from: SGOS on February 28, 2018, 04:41:57 AM
I was with my father the morning he caught his first and only legal sized musky. He used a gaff hook to haul it into the boat and a club to beat it into submission. There was minute of chaos before he could get the fish under control and remove the hook. I was maybe 10 years old, but it's one of those unforgettable memories, although probably altered with time. It plays in my mind like fuzzy movie that at best creates a general impression of the event.
Actually, I hate eating fish. I'm a catch and release guy except for that one 9 lb 8 ounce largemouth bass I have hanging on the wall. I saved the coke bottle for the big catfish I gave away to the guys on the bank looking for dinner. I had a knack for catching big ones. And they needed a heavy whack!
Quote from: Cavebear on February 28, 2018, 04:49:11 AM
Actually, I hate eating fish. I'm a catch and release guy except for that one 9 lb 8 ounce largemouth bass I have hanging on the wall. I saved the coke bottle for the big catfish I gave away to the guys on the bank looking for dinner. I had a knack for catching big ones. And they needed a heavy whack!
I loved fishing for the lunkers too. In my teens I caught a lot of Northern Pike on trips to Ontario. One took me 12 minutes to land. My father actually timed the fight. Then I moved to Montana, which was all about trout, which were better eating, but not as much fun. I missed tangling with the trash fish as my father referred to them, and eventually, I didn't fish much in Montana. Then I got into ocean sailing back in the 80s and encountered the joy of King Salmon, big and lots of fight, and better eating than anything else. Now, I don't fish at all. I don't even have an old rod and reel in my possession.
Quote from: aitm on February 25, 2018, 08:24:47 AM
I did not recognize you and failed to check your previous history. I indeed acted hastily. You may restore your siggy and my apologies.
I don't consider it legit after further thought. Conveny is a troll too.
Quote from: Cavebear on February 28, 2018, 12:13:12 AM
I was a more direct fish-killer on the rare times when I killed one (when someone else wanted it for dinner). A glass coke bottle firmly to the head was sufficient (I saved an old one for that purpose). I had a friend who had a better way. He cut off the bottom of a baseball bat, hollowed it mostly out, and filled it with molten lead. THAT had an impact!
There are all kinds of uses for old Coke bottles, apparently. Reminds me of the movie The Gods Must Be Crazy! :)
Quote from: Unbeliever on February 28, 2018, 01:50:21 PM
There are all kinds of uses for old Coke bottles, apparently. Reminds me of the movie The Gods Must Be Crazy! :)
I wouldn't be all that shocked if we found a coke bottle on Mars... Those things got EVERYWHERE.