Hello ! I'm viocjit and I'm an Agnostic Christian and I would like to do an original presentation.
If you want know more about myself :
1.First name : Anthony
2.Last name : TOP SECRET
3.Nationality : French
4.Date of birth : TOP SECRET
5.Age : 19 years old
6.Hobbies : Computing , Reading , TV , Radio , Spirituality , Religions , Foreign languages , Video games etc...
7.Languages : English (advanced) , French (native) and I know a little bit of others languages like Classical Arabic , Hebrew , Spanish , Italian , Portuguese , Latin , German , Dutch , Norwegian , Russian and Farsi.
8.Metaphysical identity : Agnostic Christian (like the majority of people in France).
9.Why I'm here : I would discuss about a lot of things.
10.Last words for this thread : I hope have a lot of good moments here.
Haven't we seen this before?
What does agnostic Christian mean?
Literally it means that he accepts Jesus as his savior, but he doesn't present as fact anything for which he has no evidence.
Quote from: "aitm"Haven't we seen this before?
Seriously. Glitch in the Matrix.
Seriously. Glitch in the Matrix.
Oh no! Not again!
Uhm... re-welcome, I guess.
(//http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2012/207/4/b/motivation___deja_vu_by_2k_dragon-d58r45s.png)
Quote from: "Farroc"What does agnostic Christian mean?
Many here are agnostic atheists. So I guess it would mean this person highly suspects the Christian god is the one true god, but admits they cant know for sure, but holds the position it does exist.
Just like an agnostic atheist holds no god belief and highly suspects god/s don't exist but also, admits they cant know for sure.
I am only and strictly semantically speaking "agnostic" about the future and any claims or evidence that may come out. But as far as past and present, I am flat out an atheist.
That's an absurd combination of beliefs.. It's one thing to be completely absorbed into your denial and not even consider alternate possibility's, but to admit there's a good chance it might not be true but still believe it? How does one even come to such a preposterous position?
You're the one saying it's a "good chance". Agnostics generally don't consider something a "good chance", just "a chance", which can be quite reasonable.
Of course, if you ever really start trying to validate your beliefs, you'll find that you can't without abandoning reason, so it's won't be a maintainable position I think.
I can define myself like Agnostic Christian because I'm not sure about his existence. I'm sure to 90% that God is only a myth. But these 10% make that I'm worry about the hell.
I would like to be sure about his existence or non existence.
This question is an obsession , I have the impression to be tortured mentally.
Who torture me God , Satan or only me because I resist to the truth ?
Quote from: "viocjit"I can define myself like Agnostic Christian because I'm not sure about his existence. I'm sure to 90% that God is only a myth. But these 10% make that I'm worry about the hell.
Then you do not have faith.
QuoteI would like to be sure about his existence or non existence.
You can't be sure. You've already seen through the ruse, now you just have to cut through your fears. Not even hell. The real fear is the change it would be to really see the world as it is. It takes some people their whole life.
There's no reason to fear hell, because it doesn't exist. You don't fear any of the other hundreds of hells out there. There's no reason to fear the christian one just because your parents do.
Welcome.
Quote from: "Farroc"That's an absurd combination of beliefs.. It's one thing to be completely absorbed into your denial and not even consider alternate possibility's, but to admit there's a good chance it might not be true but still believe it? How does one even come to such a preposterous position?
Gnosticism (//http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnostic) comes from the greek word for "knowledge". If you are an agnostic theist, you believe in God, but don't know that God exists. This is a perfectly reasonable viewpoint, nobody on earth knows for sure whether or not God exists, and to claim to be a gnostic theist or a gnostic atheist is arrogant and silly.
Are you not an atheist, who believes strongly that God does not exist, but who acknowledges that you don't actually possess the knowledge as to whether or not he does? Then you're an agnostic atheist.
We should really, really sticky the definition of agnostic and have everyone read it, as this always comes up. Belief and knowledge are not the same thing.
Sometimes I fear the hell and sometimes not there are many variations.
I must understand the origins of Judaism and Christianity to be sure to 100%.
During many years I had the sensation that Satan and others devil force were present
in my room when this was the night and that the light was not on ON.
I can conclude the next thing : Stupidity of my mind (I hope).
I fear hell since my 4 years old when I really believed in God.
I had many sensations all these years :
1.Since my 4 years old I still had the feeling that I will take part to the last battle (Armageddon not the film but the place).
2.Since my 4 years old I still had this weird sensation in my Thorax , a sensation to be like a empty memory card (In the moment where I'm writing these lines I don't have this sensation).
3.I still have the feeling that I will have the chance to see the second coming of Christ.
Now I can say many Muslims children are feeling that they will see the dajal (A Muslim equivalent of Antichrist) soon but this is false because the dajal is only a legend.
I have nothing of these sensations now.
You only feel those things because you were taught them as a child. Since I'm dutch, when I was young, my parents told me about sinterklaas, which is a dutch festivity where an old man riding on a horse delivers presents to children by sending his helpers down the chimney to put them near the fireplace.
When I was really small, I could always see the helpers from the corner of my eyes (they were supposed to be watching to see if I was naughty or nice, after all) and hear sinterklaas walking on the roof.
When I got older, my parents told me it was all just a make believe thing, and I never heard them again. The only reason you feel these things and yet consider every other religion with the exact same stories a legend, is because this is the only one your parents told you was true from a young and impressionable age.
It's literally the only thing setting christianity and islam apart; you were told one is real and one is not, and you believed it without thinking about it. The things you feel are attributed to the one and not the other for the exact same reason. Once you gain the mental strength to admit it was all a lie and you have to move on, you will be no longer attribute the feelings to these things, even though you'll still have them. After all; they are just emotions and thoughts in your head that you happen to think belong to something unrelated.
I liked your story with Sinterklaas. Now I try to understand the origin of religions to better understand. About the writers of the story of Jesus , what was(were) their(s) goal(s) ?
Power, obviously. People want power. So they come up with stories. And then those stories give them power over their followers.
I think the most damning thing about christianity is that it depends on Judaism to be correct - but believe that there's one god - and that this one god had a personal/close relationship with the jews for a very long time. However, the jews were polytheistic up until just a few hundred years before Jesus supposedly lived. In fact Yahweh used to be the son of El - the creator god, and have tons of brothers who often fought. A king later decided that they should only worship Yahweh and forced the jews to stop worshipping the rest, including the very popular fertility goddess Asherah who depending on tribe was Yahweh's mother, wife, lover - or with one or more of his brothers: //http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asherah.
Quote from: "La Dolce Vita"I think the most damning thing about christianity is that it depends on Judaism to be correct - but believe that there's one god - and that this one god had a personal/close relationship with the jews for a very long time. However, the jews were polytheistic up until just a few hundred years before Jesus supposedly lived. In fact Yahweh used to be the son of El - the creator god, and have tons of brothers who often fought. A king later decided that they should only worship Yahweh and forced the jews to stop worshipping the rest, including the very popular fertility goddess Asherah who depending on tribe was Yahweh's mother, wife, lover - or with one or more of his brothers: //http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asherah.
I already hear this. Some people think that el are from Enlil.
Enlil who is this mythological character ? //http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enlil
Enlil is no more or less mythological than God, Allah or Jesus. There was no story about a preacher-son-of-God living in Jerusalem in the first century until the second century. Paul's Jesus was just another aspect of God. Jesus-as-a-man was made up so that people could be scared into supporting priests - so that the priests didn't have to work for a living - like an early Sicilian Mafia. Pay "protection" (tribute, tithe, etc.) or bad things will happen to you (your store will burn down, you'll go to hell). (If there's a hell, and you burn in it forever if you don't accept "Jesus" as your savior - and do everything his priests tell you to do, you have great motivation to be a Christian and pay for the church hierarchy to be able to live nicely.)
The Christianity everyone is familiar with didn't exist until the 4th century - until then, each church had its own beliefs, customs, rites, etc. (And there was no "New Testament".) Modern "Christianity" is an invention of the First Council of Nicaea (in 325 CE). If there had been more Arianists at the Council, Christianity would be Arianist. IF there had been more Unitarians it would have been Unitarian, not Trinitarian. It was invented by men, not decreed by any god. (They couldn't even agree on how many people attended the Council. Various claims of actual counts of the participants range from 250 to 318, a difficult error to make if you're actually counting. Nothing was decided on evidence, it was all decided by majority vote, most likely influenced by Constantine's threat of banishment for anyone deciding in favor of Arianism.
Anyone who thinks that any god had any hand in deciding what Christianity would be is only fooling himself.
BTW, in order to actually know that there's no God, one would have to be a god. No other form of being could know what exists in all of the universe at any given instant, and an omnipotent god (and God is defined as being omnipotent) could hide from any other being.
This is maybe like the Gospel of Mark. We tell that this book was wrote around 60 AD. But I think that say that this text was wrote between 60 AD and 100 AD (maybe more than 100 AD) is not speculation.
I like Christians who quote versets from NT because they forget that many of these versets are not in the original text.
Do you know the pericope adulteræ (John 7:53 to 8:11) ? the majority of people don't know that this is an add.
"Pericope adulteræ" would be a great name for a band.
Quote from: "the_antithesis""Pericope adulteræ" would be a great name for a band.
=D> I'm OK with you.
I'm now a Strong Atheist since 2 or 3 years old.
Quote from: viocjit on September 18, 2016, 09:39:15 PM
I'm now a Strong Atheist since 2 or 3 years old.
Welcome to the Dark Side. No more cookies, though, due to an unfortunate oven accident involving condoms. You'll have to settle for these store-brand wafers I bought.
(http://www.obhfood.com.my/OBH/wafle%20biskut.JPG)
Quote from: viocjit on June 17, 2013, 04:12:07 PM
I liked your story with Sinterklaas. Now I try to understand the origin of religions to better understand. About the writers of the story of Jesus , what was(were) their(s) goal(s) ?
Neither the supporters nor the detractors of Christianity know. They have their pro or anti ideology. One can try to reconstruct how people think, by examining their writings etc, we do it all the time with other authors. Getting into Christian origins used to interest me ... and when I had satisfied my curiosity, I was able to discard it.
Understanding others, is as close as understanding yourself. You are not too different from others today or in the past. The primary stage is here and now, and the primary character in the play is yourself. Of course it isn't easy to understand oneself.
Quote from: viocjit on June 17, 2013, 07:05:21 PM
This is maybe like the Gospel of Mark. We tell that this book was wrote around 60 AD. But I think that say that this text was wrote between 60 AD and 100 AD (maybe more than 100 AD) is not speculation.
I like Christians who quote versets from NT because they forget that many of these versets are not in the original text.
Do you know the pericope adulter� (John 7:53 to 8:11) ? the majority of people don't know that this is an add.
Most people aren't Bible scholars. In apologetics, the scholars try to put the origins of Christianity as early as possible, but not too early. They always have an agenda. In literal terms, there is no nearly complete Gospel document before 200 CE ... other than fragments which don't prove the existence of a complete document comparable to what we have now. Christianity as an institution is a Gentile invention, anti-Jewish from 135 CE forward, and pro-Emperor since 325 CE forward. It is a mess, like any other human invention that happened spontaneously without real direction.
The only kind of theism that makes sense is agnostic theism. Faith and knowledge are separate categories.