Atheistforums.com

Humanities Section => Political/Government General Discussion => Topic started by: GSOgymrat on February 03, 2018, 03:17:27 PM

Title: Diagnosing the thriving Swamp that's failing America
Post by: GSOgymrat on February 03, 2018, 03:17:27 PM
Katherine Gehl, former CEO of Gehl Foods, and Harvard Business School Professor Michael Porter reveal their ideas for fixing "the skewed incentives that keep our parties and our political competition from being about delivering good results." I like their ideas and believe as Americans we need to stop thinking in terms of parties and focus more on outcomes. The current incentives for politicians don't align with satisfying the majority of voters.

https://youtu.be/EJCcCGqY9-s
Title: Re: Diagnosing the thriving Swamp that's failing America
Post by: Baruch on February 03, 2018, 05:31:50 PM
Yes.  You have to break the 2-dystopia monopoly.
Title: Re: Diagnosing the thriving Swamp that's failing America
Post by: Cavebear on February 07, 2018, 12:03:08 AM
Quote from: GSOgymrat on February 03, 2018, 03:17:27 PM
Katherine Gehl, former CEO of Gehl Foods, and Harvard Business School Professor Michael Porter reveal their ideas for fixing "the skewed incentives that keep our parties and our political competition from being about delivering good results." I like their ideas and believe as Americans we need to stop thinking in terms of parties and focus more on outcomes. The current incentives for politicians don't align with satisfying the majority of voters.

https://youtu.be/EJCcCGqY9-s

Then she had better pressure her peers to end stop overwhelming the regular voters with corporate money than influences national and local elections in their favor.

I understand that, legally, money is free speech.  But I think that legal fiction has to stop.  One person, one vote should be the rule.  Not dollars per ads...
Title: Re: Diagnosing the thriving Swamp that's failing America
Post by: Baruch on February 07, 2018, 07:06:31 AM
We can't subsidize infinite expenditure to free TV ads ... so just ban political ads from TV.  But now ... with YouTube ... everyone can make videos for free.  Let it move politics there ... take it all off broadcast TV.  Also ban politics from newspapers ... let it all be on Twitter.  The reason why campaigns are so expensive is because of broadcast TV.
Title: Re: Diagnosing the thriving Swamp that's failing America
Post by: Cavebear on February 07, 2018, 07:13:26 AM
Quote from: Baruch on February 07, 2018, 07:06:31 AM
We can't subsidize infinite expenditure to free TV ads ... so just ban political ads from TV.  But now ... with YouTube ... everyone can make videos for free.  Let it move politics there ... take it all off broadcast TV.  Also ban politics from newspapers ... let it all be on Twitter.  The reason why campaigns are so expensive is because of broadcast TV.

Indeed.  We may be entering a new age of merchantile Robber Barons and the rule of the oligarchy.  When some people suggest the antidote to Trump is Oprah, I feel sickened.  But rule by the richest may become the new norm.

I will probably be checking out just in time...
Title: Re: Diagnosing the thriving Swamp that's failing America
Post by: Baruch on February 07, 2018, 07:17:16 AM
Optimist ;-)  I may be right behind you, checking out.

We have been ruled by oligarchs since Cornelius Vanderbilt and the Rothschilds.  Thank England, we are going to be a monarchy again ;-)
Title: Re: Diagnosing the thriving Swamp that's failing America
Post by: Cavebear on February 07, 2018, 07:19:57 AM
Quote from: Baruch on February 07, 2018, 07:17:16 AM
Optimist ;-)  I may be right behind you, checking out.

We have been ruled by oligarchs since Cornelius Vanderbilt and the Rothschilds.  Thank England, we are going to be a monarchy again ;-)

We had a long 20th century when Progressive ideas were ascendant.  It has faded now. 
Title: Re: Diagnosing the thriving Swamp that's failing America
Post by: Baruch on February 07, 2018, 07:21:59 AM
Quote from: Cavebear on February 07, 2018, 07:19:57 AM
We had a long 20th century when Progressive ideas were ascendant.  It has faded now.

LaFollett was so 1924.  He only got 13 electoral college votes.  This only existed in Scandinavian settled upper Mid West.  FDR wasn't a progressive, he saved capitalism from itself.
Title: Re: Diagnosing the thriving Swamp that's failing America
Post by: Cavebear on February 07, 2018, 07:27:30 AM
Quote from: Baruch on February 07, 2018, 07:21:59 AM
LaFollett was so 1924.  He only got 13 electoral college votes.  This only existed in Scandinavian settled upper Mid West.  FDR wasn't a progressive, he saved capitalism from itself.

Progressivism lives today, but it is hanging by a thread.  LaFollett was just a representative of it.  The movement had long-lasting effects but are being dismantled today.
Title: Re: Diagnosing the thriving Swamp that's failing America
Post by: Baruch on February 07, 2018, 07:31:24 AM
Quote from: Cavebear on February 07, 2018, 07:27:30 AM
Progressivism lives today, but it is hanging by a thread.  LaFollett was just a representative of it.  The movement had long-lasting effects but are being dismantled today.

There were a lot of conservatives, from 1900-2000, who wanted to piss on the graves of the liberals.  And they have.  The natural position of any society is status quo ... aka conservative.  Revolutionary France burned out after less than 12 years?  Our US electoral system is meant to be continuous revolution based on the common man ... but uncommon men do what they can to prevent that from happening.
Title: Re: Diagnosing the thriving Swamp that's failing America
Post by: Cavebear on February 07, 2018, 07:36:08 AM
Quote from: Baruch on February 07, 2018, 07:31:24 AM
There were a lot of conservatives, from 1900-2000, who wanted to piss on the graves of the liberals.  And they have.  The natural position of any society is status quo ... aka conservative.  Revolutionary France burned out after less than 12 years?  Our US electoral system is meant to be continuous revolution based on the common man ... but uncommon men do what they can to prevent that from happening.

We are not France.

We are not all conservatives.  Even George Will is starting to give up a bit on it (a la Trump).

I am not a liberal.  I am a progressive, and there is a difference.
Title: Re: Diagnosing the thriving Swamp that's failing America
Post by: Baruch on February 07, 2018, 07:42:11 AM
A rare bird of paradise, strutting his feathers ;-)
Title: Re: Diagnosing the thriving Swamp that's failing America
Post by: Cavebear on February 07, 2018, 07:45:07 AM
Quote from: Baruch on February 07, 2018, 07:42:11 AM
A rare bird of paradise, strutting his feathers ;-)

Couldn't think of any useful to say, huh?
Title: Re: Diagnosing the thriving Swamp that's failing America
Post by: Baruch on February 07, 2018, 12:37:12 PM
Quote from: Cavebear on February 07, 2018, 07:45:07 AM
Couldn't think of any useful to say, huh?

Well, a cave bear wearing a feather boa ... is funny to me ;-)
Title: Re: Diagnosing the thriving Swamp that's failing America
Post by: Cavebear on February 09, 2018, 02:36:40 AM
Quote from: Baruch on February 07, 2018, 12:37:12 PM
Well, a cave bear wearing a feather boa ... is funny to me ;-)

And it would be to me as well.  But that's not my style.  I'm more into wearing old-style military camo pants, a black shirt, and garden shoes.

So given that, what are YOU wearing RIGHT NOW?
Title: Re: Diagnosing the thriving Swamp that's failing America
Post by: Baruch on February 09, 2018, 07:02:06 AM
Quote from: Cavebear on February 09, 2018, 02:36:40 AM
And it would be to me as well.  But that's not my style.  I'm more into wearing old-style military camo pants, a black shirt, and garden shoes.

So given that, what are YOU wearing RIGHT NOW?

Well I am posting this later in the morning, before going to work.  I can't share what I am wearing, because I am not wearing much, yet.
Title: Re: Diagnosing the thriving Swamp that's failing America
Post by: AllPurposeAtheist on February 09, 2018, 04:39:13 PM
Too bad the term progressive has been coopted by Flo the goofy (and ugly if I do say so myself) insurance lady..
Title: Re: Diagnosing the thriving Swamp that's failing America
Post by: Baruch on February 09, 2018, 07:22:44 PM
Quote from: AllPurposeAtheist on February 09, 2018, 04:39:13 PM
Too bad the term progressive has been coopted by Flo the goofy (and ugly if I do say so myself) insurance lady..

I like her (fictional) character a lot.  I would make her First Lady ... and get cheaper insurance too ;-)
Title: Re: Diagnosing the thriving Swamp that's failing America
Post by: Munch on February 09, 2018, 08:01:30 PM
Quote from: Cavebear on February 09, 2018, 02:36:40 AM
And it would be to me as well.  But that's not my style.  I'm more into wearing old-style military camo pants, a black shirt, and garden shoes.

So given that, what are YOU wearing RIGHT NOW?

this just got saucy.

Title: Re: Diagnosing the thriving Swamp that's failing America
Post by: Cavebear on February 13, 2018, 02:35:16 AM
Quote from: Baruch on February 09, 2018, 07:02:06 AM
Well I am posting this later in the morning, before going to work.  I can't share what I am wearing, because I am not wearing much, yet.

I will forgive you your PJs or even less.  Everyone DOES wear little at times.  So let's say the question is more about your off time around the yard in public view... 
Title: Re: Diagnosing the thriving Swamp that's failing America
Post by: Baruch on February 13, 2018, 05:26:10 AM
Quote from: Cavebear on February 13, 2018, 02:35:16 AM
I will forgive you your PJs or even less.  Everyone DOES wear little at times.  So let's say the question is more about your off time around the yard in public view...

Sock, briefs, sweat pants, t-shirt (casual indoors).  I don't get outside much in Winter.
Title: Re: Diagnosing the thriving Swamp that's failing America
Post by: Cavebear on February 13, 2018, 12:27:24 PM
Quote from: Baruch on February 13, 2018, 05:26:10 AM
Sock, briefs, sweat pants, t-shirt (casual indoors).  I don't get outside much in Winter.

You probably should.  I think it was Teddy Roosevelt (a good Republican lad) who said Winter temperatures were "bracing".
Title: Re: Diagnosing the thriving Swamp that's failing America
Post by: Baruch on February 13, 2018, 01:18:12 PM
Quote from: Cavebear on February 13, 2018, 12:27:24 PM
You probably should.  I think it was Teddy Roosevelt (a good Republican lad) who said Winter temperatures were "bracing".

He didn't find his trip to the Amazon equally bracing ;-(
Title: Re: Diagnosing the thriving Swamp that's failing America
Post by: Cavebear on February 13, 2018, 01:27:22 PM
Quote from: Baruch on February 13, 2018, 01:18:12 PM
He didn't find his trip to the Amazon equally bracing ;-(

Who would?  Malaria, mosquitos, foot-fungi, poison frogs in your coffee pot, pesky natives...  Montana in Winter must have seemed like heaven.  Then later, a Presidency in the literal Washington DC swamp?  Poof!