Atheistforums.com

Humanities Section => Philosophy & Rhetoric General Discussion => Topic started by: Baruch on December 26, 2017, 04:21:33 PM

Title: Macro-economic picture for the last 30 years ...
Post by: Baruch on December 26, 2017, 04:21:33 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsqGITb0W4A&feature=youtu.be&t=2m02s

Just facts ... not politics.  Basically, force the middle class into the lower class, then kill all the poor people ... next.
Title: Re: Macro-economic picture for the last 30 years ...
Post by: Sal1981 on December 26, 2017, 05:44:48 PM
Pretty good re-cap of the last 30 (& more) financial years, and I agree on him on populism and how, essentially, a populist was elected in the U.S.

So far, even though they gained quite a foot-hold, populist in Europe have not won the elections - the case for immigration is that they'll fill the widening gap in the work-force that is yet to come.

Also, in the comment section, I agree with on poster that he is wrong on the job creation part in the future, A.I. will and already has moved the workforce from simple jobs to machines. I don't know who said it before, but I really think that strong A.I. or A.G.I. will be humanities last invention, because they'll be doing the thinking for us once we have perfected the algorithms for A.I.

Instead of welfare state(s), have a basic universal income with no strings attached.



EDIT: a good TED interview with an A.I. expert about the issue:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6tgYBMXR6s
Title: Re: Macro-economic picture for the last 30 years ...
Post by: Baruch on December 26, 2017, 08:35:15 PM
i don't object to taking care of people, I object to taking care of corporations and plutocrats.  But I am not liberal in that.  I simply don't trust any form of collectivism.

Populism gained in France and Netherlands and Spain this year, but not a knock out blow.  But Poland is clearly populist (at least anti Berlin) and Austria is moving in the same pro-Catholic direction.  If the globalists weren't such monsters, they might attract more bees, with honey, not vinegar.
Title: Re: Macro-economic picture for the last 30 years ...
Post by: Cavebear on January 27, 2018, 08:57:44 AM
Quote from: Baruch on December 26, 2017, 08:35:15 PM
i don't object to taking care of people, I object to taking care of corporations and plutocrats. 

You ARE slowly coming around to the progressive view.  Please keep up the good transition.
Title: Re: Macro-economic picture for the last 30 years ...
Post by: Baruch on January 27, 2018, 09:29:20 AM
Quote from: Cavebear on January 27, 2018, 08:57:44 AM
You ARE slowly coming around to the progressive view.  Please keep up the good transition.

I was progressive in 1974.  I can only move down, having been on the peak of the mountain.  Humanity has proven predictably disappointing.
Title: Re: Macro-economic picture for the last 30 years ...
Post by: Cavebear on January 27, 2018, 09:44:05 AM
Quote from: Baruch on January 27, 2018, 09:29:20 AM
I was progressive in 1974.  I can only move down, having been on the peak of the mountain.  Humanity has proven predictably disappointing.

I slightly agree with you about that.  But even at 67, I still have hopes for humanity.
Title: Re: Macro-economic picture for the last 30 years ...
Post by: Baruch on January 27, 2018, 09:48:29 AM
Quote from: Cavebear on January 27, 2018, 09:44:05 AM
I slightly agree with you about that.  But even at 67, I still have hopes for humanity.

Good for you.  Maximal cynicism is a downer, but the only way is up!
Title: Re: Macro-economic picture for the last 30 years ...
Post by: Cavebear on January 27, 2018, 09:51:50 AM
Quote from: Baruch on January 27, 2018, 09:48:29 AM
Good for you.  Maximal cynicism is a downer, but the only way is up!

I don't like individual people a while lot, but I sure like humanity collectively.  In US I Trust!

Ans I don't mean that that is easy.  But it beats giving up, nes ce pas?

If we give up on ourselves, we're done.
Title: Re: Macro-economic picture for the last 30 years ...
Post by: Baruch on January 27, 2018, 09:53:59 AM
Quote from: Cavebear on January 27, 2018, 09:51:50 AM
I don't like individual people a while lot, but I sure like humanity collectively.  In US I Trust!

Ans I don't mean that that is easy.  But it beats giving up, nes ce pas?

If we give up on ourselves, we're done.

I am anti-bear.  I like people individually, but hate them collectively (same reason I hate G-d).  And yes, soon enough, we are both done.  I hope that the effort was worthwhile, even if it isn't lasting.
Title: Re: Macro-economic picture for the last 30 years ...
Post by: Cavebear on January 27, 2018, 09:58:35 AM
Quote from: Baruch on January 27, 2018, 09:53:59 AM
I am anti-bear.  I like people individually, but hate them collectively (same reason I hate G-d).  And yes, soon enough, we are both done.  I hope that the effort was worthwhile, even if it isn't lasting.

You know. I'm ONLY 67.  I'm not dead yet.  I'm going to fight to make things better until my last breath.  Sure, my typing WON'T get better, and my mind may slow down come 20 years from now, but I live to see a better world if I can do anything about it!
Title: Re: Macro-economic picture for the last 30 years ...
Post by: Baruch on January 27, 2018, 10:08:16 AM
Quote from: Cavebear on January 27, 2018, 09:58:35 AM
You know. I'm ONLY 67.  I'm not dead yet.  I'm going to fight to make things better until my last breath.  Sure, my typing WON'T get better, and my mind may slow down come 20 years from now, but I live to see a better world if I can do anything about it!

Star Wars Emperor ... "yes, feel the hopium ..."
Title: Re: Macro-economic picture for the last 30 years ...
Post by: Cavebear on January 27, 2018, 10:12:08 AM
Quote from: Baruch on January 27, 2018, 10:08:16 AM
Star Wars Emperor ... "yes, feel the hopium ..."

Well Hopium and Thoughtium probably ARE the opposite of Unobtanium and Godium...
Title: Re: Macro-economic picture for the last 30 years ...
Post by: Jason Harvestdancer on January 27, 2018, 12:15:21 PM
Baruch, you post many topics that look interesting, but start with just a video.  Not even a summary of the video, just a video.

Why should I spend my time watching that video?  Who is that person?  What are his credentials?  What is the point he is making?  One paragraph ought to suffice.
Title: Re: Macro-economic picture for the last 30 years ...
Post by: Baruch on January 27, 2018, 03:51:13 PM
Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on January 27, 2018, 12:15:21 PM
Baruch, you post many topics that look interesting, but start with just a video.  Not even a summary of the video, just a video.

Why should I spend my time watching that video?  Who is that person?  What are his credentials?  What is the point he is making?  One paragraph ought to suffice.

I am trying to control that ... but in multi-game speed chess, I have to type fast!  Make a specific question on a specific video that is interesting, and I will respond.  You are welcome.
Title: Re: Macro-economic picture for the last 30 years ...
Post by: Cavebear on January 27, 2018, 03:54:41 PM
Quote from: Baruch on January 27, 2018, 03:51:13 PM
I am trying to control that ... but in multi-game speed chess, I have to type fast!  Make a specific question on a specific video that is interesting, and I will respond.  You are welcome.

Do you ever play the English Opening.  I like that one for the transpositional possibilities.
Title: Re: Macro-economic picture for the last 30 years ...
Post by: Unbeliever on January 27, 2018, 03:55:07 PM
Quote from: Cavebear on January 27, 2018, 09:58:35 AM
You know. I'm ONLY 67.  I'm not dead yet. 




(https://www.filepicker.io/api/file/fHxqn4HxRZ2tjAKyVx7a)
Title: Re: Macro-economic picture for the last 30 years ...
Post by: Baruch on January 27, 2018, 03:56:08 PM
Quote from: Cavebear on January 27, 2018, 03:54:41 PM
Do you ever play the English Opening.  I like that one for the transpositional possibilities.

Sorry, long time since I played, and no expertise.  I was more like ... can I emotionally get to the other person ... to break their concentration.  One of Bobby Fischer's methods.
Title: Re: Macro-economic picture for the last 30 years ...
Post by: Unbeliever on January 27, 2018, 03:57:08 PM
Quote from: Cavebear on January 27, 2018, 03:54:41 PM
Do you ever play the English Opening.  I like that one for the transpositional possibilities.
I've recently heard about an opening called the London system, it seems to be pretty solid. But the English is also a good one.


Title: Re: Macro-economic picture for the last 30 years ...
Post by: Cavebear on January 27, 2018, 04:02:11 PM
Quote from: Unbeliever on January 27, 2018, 03:57:08 PM
I've recently heard about an opening called the London system, it seems to be pretty solid. But the English is also a good one.

Had to look that up.  It's been years since I played chess seriously for rating.  Interesting.Looks like a Giocco Piano (I don't remember how to spell it, since I never played it) from the Q-side?  I would have to play a few games experimenting.  The Wiki says it is good against Nimzo-Indian.  I don't really love closed systems though.

Title: Re: Macro-economic picture for the last 30 years ...
Post by: Baruch on January 27, 2018, 04:06:50 PM
Quote from: Cavebear on January 27, 2018, 04:02:11 PM
Had to look that up.  It's been years since I played chess seriously for rating.  Interesting.Looks like a Giocco Piano (I don't remember how to spell it, since I never played it) from the Q-side?  I would have to play a few games experimenting.  The Wiki says it is good against Nimzo-Indian.  I don't really love closed systems though.

On an infinite 2-D chessboard, Queens are even more dangerous than usual, and Kings are still mostly useless.
Title: Re: Macro-economic picture for the last 30 years ...
Post by: Cavebear on February 02, 2018, 02:38:52 PM
Quote from: Baruch on January 27, 2018, 04:06:50 PM
On an infinite 2-D chessboard, Queens are even more dangerous than usual, and Kings are still mostly useless.

So are Rooks and Bishops.  In 1969, I had a shoebox full of punch cards to make the computer play 2 moves of chess logically.  I could never get it to stop moving pieces off the board.  Hover, since the class project was to program the computer to play "21" (which I did the first night and handed to the instructor the next day) he gave me time on the mainframe saying "you can't do it".  He was right.  In Fortran.  I got an A anyway.
Title: Re: Macro-economic picture for the last 30 years ...
Post by: Baruch on February 02, 2018, 06:57:59 PM
Quote from: Cavebear on February 02, 2018, 02:38:52 PM
So are Rooks and Bishops.  In 1969, I had a shoebox full of punch cards to make the computer play 2 moves of chess logically.  I could never get it to stop moving pieces off the board.  Hover, since the class project was to program the computer to play "21" (which I did the first night and handed to the instructor the next day) he gave me time on the mainframe saying "you can't do it".  He was right.  In Fortran.  I got an A anyway.

You should have followed the Lords of Cobol ;-)

The actual reason is ... we are talking about "depth first search" ... which is hard to do with fixed arrays.  C-languages have pointers, and can build trees on the fly.  Engineers never needed to build data structures like that ... all engineering stuff is linear or planar ... though finite element analysis is better with pointer structures, but arrays can be made to do.
Title: Re: Macro-economic picture for the last 30 years ...
Post by: Cavebear on February 07, 2018, 06:40:41 AM
Quote from: Baruch on February 02, 2018, 06:57:59 PM
You should have followed the Lords of Cobol ;-)

The actual reason is ... we are talking about "depth first search" ... which is hard to do with fixed arrays.  C-languages have pointers, and can build trees on the fly.  Engineers never needed to build data structures like that ... all engineering stuff is linear or planar ... though finite element analysis is better with pointer structures, but arrays can be made to do.

I could have.  I was good enough at Cobol that the other students asked me to review their programs.  But I didn't like the formality of that language.  The instructor encouraged me to pursue programming.  I wanted more thoughtful organizing.  Administrative and technical management of voice telecommunications suited me better.
Title: Re: Macro-economic picture for the last 30 years ...
Post by: Baruch on February 07, 2018, 07:36:34 AM
Quote from: Cavebear on February 07, 2018, 06:40:41 AM
I could have.  I was good enough at Cobol that the other students asked me to review their programs.  But I didn't like the formality of that language.  The instructor encouraged me to pursue programming.  I wanted more thoughtful organizing.  Administrative and technical management of voice telecommunications suited me better.

Programming is a bitch.  The computer won't compute.  Super detail oriented stuff.  Glad to do it for a few years, but not the whole career.
Title: Re: Macro-economic picture for the last 30 years ...
Post by: Cavebear on February 07, 2018, 07:56:13 AM
Quote from: Baruch on February 07, 2018, 07:36:34 AM
Programming is a bitch.  The computer won't compute.  Super detail oriented stuff.  Glad to do it for a few years, but not the whole career.

I meant that programming was too limited (at the time).  I thought it would become a technical job ruled by other people's desires.  I needed broader range.  And I got it.
Title: Re: Macro-economic picture for the last 30 years ...
Post by: Baruch on February 08, 2018, 08:46:55 PM
Quote from: Cavebear on February 07, 2018, 07:56:13 AM
I meant that programming was too limited (at the time).  I thought it would become a technical job ruled by other people's desires.  I needed broader range.  And I got it.

Hamlet would make a good programmer ... being bound up in a nut shell ...
Title: Re: Macro-economic picture for the last 30 years ...
Post by: Cavebear on February 09, 2018, 02:07:03 AM
Quote from: Baruch on February 08, 2018, 08:46:55 PM
Hamlet would make a good programmer ... being bound up in a nut shell ...
I doubt it.  No programmer would make the errors.  Indeed, a programmer CAN'T make psychological errors directly.
Title: Re: Macro-economic picture for the last 30 years ...
Post by: Baruch on February 09, 2018, 07:07:27 AM
Quote from: Cavebear on February 09, 2018, 02:07:03 AM
I doubt it.  No programmer would make the errors.  Indeed, a programmer CAN'T make psychological errors directly.

Not yet.  Got chipped in Stepford yet?
Title: Re: Macro-economic picture for the last 30 years ...
Post by: Cavebear on February 13, 2018, 03:06:12 AM
Quote from: Baruch on February 09, 2018, 07:07:27 AM
Not yet.  Got chipped in Stepford yet?

My cats are microchipped with Avid.  That's a start.  And Fry was chipped...
Title: Re: Macro-economic picture for the last 30 years ...
Post by: Baruch on February 13, 2018, 05:35:20 AM
Quote from: Cavebear on February 13, 2018, 03:06:12 AM
My cats are microchipped with Avid.  That's a start.  And Fry was chipped...

Futurama isn't my idea of the future.  Think Middle Ages all over again, but not LARPing.
Title: Re: Macro-economic picture for the last 30 years ...
Post by: Cavebear on February 13, 2018, 09:00:55 AM
Quote from: Baruch on February 13, 2018, 05:35:20 AM
Futurama isn't my idea of the future.  Think Middle Ages all over again, but not LARPing.

There is a lot of Futurama that makes sense (and a lot that is Laugh-In stuff).  Sometimes, the writers get some serious thoughts in there, and I appreciate that.
Title: Re: Macro-economic picture for the last 30 years ...
Post by: Baruch on February 13, 2018, 07:43:56 PM
My favorites are ... the making of Slurm ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ov4HjDHWUe4

And the Evil Santa ... bwahaha.

I used to live on Mountain Dew.  Never learned the banjo however.
Title: Re: Macro-economic picture for the last 30 years ...
Post by: Cavebear on February 15, 2018, 03:04:04 AM
Quote from: Baruch on February 13, 2018, 07:43:56 PM
My favorites are ... the making of Slurm ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ov4HjDHWUe4

And the Evil Santa ... bwahaha.

I used to live on Mountain Dew.  Never learned the banjo however.

Start drinking Mello Yellow.  Its what Slurm is based on.
Title: Re: Macro-economic picture for the last 30 years ...
Post by: Baruch on February 18, 2018, 08:27:01 PM
Quote from: Cavebear on February 15, 2018, 03:04:04 AM
Start drinking Mello Yellow.  Its what Slurm is based on.

Damned Yankee!
Title: Re: Macro-economic picture for the last 30 years ...
Post by: Cavebear on February 19, 2018, 02:34:13 AM
Quote from: Baruch on February 18, 2018, 08:27:01 PM
Damned Yankee!

I fully admit to being as "YANKEE" as I am "ATHEIST".  Proud to be both.

Want to argue the causes of the Civil War?
Title: Re: Macro-economic picture for the last 30 years ...
Post by: Baruch on February 19, 2018, 07:07:52 AM
Quote from: Cavebear on February 19, 2018, 02:34:13 AM
I fully admit to being as "YANKEE" as I am "ATHEIST".  Proud to be both.

Want to argue the causes of the Civil War?

The deep cause ... ape men are violent.  Do we need to add more?  New England wanted to secede before the South did.  It is only a problem, because Lincoln made it a problem.  Though I sympathize with Lincoln (as an authoritarian).  Lincoln would have kept slavery (for slow elimination) if it would have caused the South to change its stupid mind.

Yes, the Yankees were OK .. in 1775, and in baseball.
Title: Re: Macro-economic picture for the last 30 years ...
Post by: Cavebear on February 19, 2018, 08:27:30 AM
Quote from: Baruch on February 19, 2018, 07:07:52 AM
The deep cause ... ape men are violent.  Do we need to add more?  New England wanted to secede before the South did.  It is only a problem, because Lincoln made it a problem.  Though I sympathize with Lincoln (as an authoritarian).  Lincoln would have kept slavery (for slow elimination) if it would have caused the South to change its stupid mind.

Yes, the Yankees were OK .. in 1775, and in baseball.

New England was stopped because it was declared illegal.

The South wanted to succeed first because they recognized that the disproportionate power they had over the Federal government (through the Electoral college and counting slaves as 3/5 voters though they couldn't vote at all) was fading.  A

And keep in mind that almost ALL the Southern States had as their reason for succeeding in their State constitutions, to protect slavery.  There is no way to get around what they themselves declared as causes. 

Title: Re: Macro-economic picture for the last 30 years ...
Post by: Baruch on February 19, 2018, 08:11:37 PM
Quote from: Cavebear on February 19, 2018, 08:27:30 AM
New England was stopped because it was declared illegal.

The South wanted to succeed first because they recognized that the disproportionate power they had over the Federal government (through the Electoral college and counting slaves as 3/5 voters though they couldn't vote at all) was fading.  A

And keep in mind that almost ALL the Southern States had as their reason for succeeding in their State constitutions, to protect slavery.  There is no way to get around what they themselves declared as causes.

Yankees obey the law?  Haha.  Ever hear of Lexington or of John Brown?  New England wanted to join Great Britain during the War of 1812.  It took someone (Jackson) to turn the British tail.  The Northeast would have enslaved the rest of the country (mostly thru bank debt) anyway.  And the British Empire could have enslaved the US eventually anyway (again thru banking).

You simply can't stand anyone south of Pennsylvania or west of Ohio, can you?