Have you been following the surge in Bitcoin pricing lately? It went up to more than $17k per Bitcoin yesterday, and plummeted to $14k per Bitcoin today.
Wiki article:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitcoin
In the news:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-42275564
http://money.cnn.com/2017/12/08/investing/bitcoin-latest-price/index.html
http://money.cnn.com/2017/12/07/technology/bitcoin-explainer/index.html?iid=EL
http://money.cnn.com/2017/11/28/investing/bitcoin-hits-10k/index.html?iid=EL
The most reliable (IMO) Bitcoin index:
https://www.coindesk.com/price/
The cryptocurrency has become a big contender against fiat money, it seems, more so now that on Sunday Bitcoin futures will be launched.
QuoteNext month, investors should be able to start trading bitcoin futures via the Chicago Mercantile Exchange, which is expected to give the virtual currency more legitimacy among professional investors. Futures allow traders to bet on the future price of assets like currencies, metals and agricultural commodities.
Source (http://money.cnn.com/2017/11/28/investing/bitcoin-hits-10k/index.html?iid=EL)
I tend to agree with the economists who say this is a a bubble that's about to pop since this all about hype and not actual practicality.
BitCoin is volatile. A derivative on BitCoin would be even more volatile. Russian roulette.
See, the world is becoming Zimbabwe ... everyone who had BitCoin earlier, has got on the tiger, the problem isn't getting on the tiger, it is getting off, without being eaten ;-) Something for nothing! Bring out your dead! Something for nothing! ...
Think Obama trillion dollar platinum coin, but private sector rather than government CF.
Avoid volatile, speculative investments. Diversify. Don't churn, but make conservative decisions and hold tight.
Isn't one fiat currency enough?
I'm so out of touch about this. Yeah, I've heard about the stuff, but I don't get it. Did someone just invent bit coins, and now people are buying things with them? Are they tradable anywhere, or are they like green stamps? Would you take bit coins if you were selling your car? Or are you better off with government backed bills?
Quote from: Shiranu on December 08, 2017, 12:18:59 PM
I tend to agree with the economists who say this is a a bubble that's about to pop since this all about hype and not actual practicality.
I think you're right. I'm selling my assets and buying bitcoin right now while it's still valuable. I don't want to make the same mistake that I did during the mortgage collapse. I sat on my money waiting for the sub prime bonds to hit their peak, but then the market collapsed before I could buy them and they lost all their value.
Quote from: SGOS on December 08, 2017, 02:32:21 PM
Isn't one fiat currency enough?
I'm so out of touch about this. Yeah, I've heard about the stuff, but I don't get it. Did someone just invent bit coins, and now people are buying things with them? Are they tradable anywhere, or are they like green stamps? Would you take bit coins if you were selling your car? Or are you better off with government backed bills?
(http://i.imgur.com/3SM945D.jpg)
To say that cryptocurrency is an alternate to fiat currency assumes that there is such a thing as non-fiat currency. I don't think there is such a thing as a non-fiat currency, as all pricing systems involve how much people are willing to pay for goods. Even based currencies are founded on this assumption. The US government saying that a dollar is worth a dollar doesn't stop prices from being assigned by supply and demand.
Quote from: Hakurei Reimu on December 08, 2017, 07:20:54 PM
To say that cryptocurrency is an alternate to fiat currency assumes that there is such a thing as non-fiat currency. I don't think there is such a thing as a non-fiat currency, as all pricing systems involve how much people are willing to pay for goods. Even based currencies are founded on this assumption. The US government saying that a dollar is worth a dollar doesn't stop prices from being assigned by supply and demand.
It does seem like cryptocurrency is just another fiat currency with it's value tied to arbitrary whim. A fiat. The old gold and silver standard was less of a fiat, except the value of gold and silver was arbitrary. It all seems fake like monopoly money to me, especially today. So why not just take something and assign it an arbitrary value and use that? We could used turtle shells.
Quote from: SGOS on December 08, 2017, 08:25:48 PMWe could used turtle shells.
We absolutely could. And historically, people have (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shell_money). Ideally, you want something that is 1) portable 2) exists in limited quantity 3) difficult to fake 4) doesn't decay quickly. Small shells are a decent commodity money.
The biggest problem I see with bit coin is that it won't be accepted at Walmart. You could put up a fuss to the manager, but he would eventually call the cops. You'd spend the night in jail, all the while having a pile of bit coins that couldn't even get you a decent lawyer, or pay the damn fine. Go to the movies and give the ticket vendor guy a bit coin. Like what's he supposed to do with that? I just don't think it's very practical.
Quote from: SGOS on December 08, 2017, 08:51:26 PM
The biggest problem I see with bit coin is that it won't be accepted at Walmart. You could put up a fuss to the manager, but he would eventually call the cops. You'd spend the night in jail, all the while having a pile of bit coins that couldn't even get you a decent lawyer, or pay the damn fine. Go to the movies and give the ticket vendor guy a bit coin. Like what's he supposed to do with that? I just don't think it's very practical.
True. But a bunch of sites accept Bitcoin. Sure, you can't use it at Walmart, but you can use it at Newegg and Subway.
Quote from: Hydra009 on December 08, 2017, 09:09:11 PM
True. But a bunch of sites accept Bitcoin. Sure, you can't use it at Walmart, but you can use it at Newegg and Subway.
Maybe it will catch on eventually. I did wonder if any popular businesses actually accepted bit coin. Subway surprises me. Newegg not so much because it does most everything over the computer already.
So when you conduct business using bitcoin, do you use a credit card or something like that?
Quote from: SGOS on December 08, 2017, 09:28:08 PM
So when you conduct business using bitcoin, do you use a credit card or something like that?
I have wondered this as well. Apparently, it can be somewhat more difficult than plastic but not overly so.
https://www.coindesk.com/subway-bitcoin-purchase/
"Once our subs were made the employee took out an iPad and opened Coinbase. She punched our total in the register and then in the iPad, which immediately generated a custom QR code linked to the store’s Coinbase account which was preloaded with our exact total calculated. I took out my iPhone, opened my Coinbase app, and scanned the QR code. Instantly the total popped up on my screen and gave me the option to leave a note about my purchase. "Subway" seemed appropriate.
I hit send and within seconds she received confirmation on the iPad that her account had received the bitcoin. It took no longer than a credit card transaction, and it didn’t require my signature."
Quote from: SGOS on December 08, 2017, 02:32:21 PM
Isn't one fiat currency enough?
I'm so out of touch about this. Yeah, I've heard about the stuff, but I don't get it. Did someone just invent bit coins, and now people are buying things with them? Are they tradable anywhere, or are they like green stamps? Would you take bit coins if you were selling your car? Or are you better off with government backed bills?
BitCoin etc is private money. You could use a BitCoin debit card to spend it. Think of PayPal ... only the value doesn't come from dumping cash or credit from conventional sources, like you do with PayPal. Not government money. Technically FRN are private money, since the Fed is a private organization, given a monopoly by the Treasury. But it is licensed money. You can use private money anytime, including the S&H Green Stamps of our childhood. And yes, some venues will take it directly in trade for actual stuff or services. Think of this as banking, without a banking license. In either case, the banker cleans up, and you lose ... the question do you want to be screwed by licensed public banking or unlicensed private banking. Either way, you are screwed.
Quote from: SGOS on December 08, 2017, 03:40:24 PM
I think you're right. I'm selling my assets and buying bitcoin right now while it's still valuable. I don't want to make the same mistake that I did during the mortgage collapse. I sat on my money waiting for the sub prime bonds to hit their peak, but then the market collapsed before I could buy them and they lost all their value.
I hope that is satire. The common man always buys high and sells low. That is how finance works.
Quote from: Hakurei Reimu on December 08, 2017, 07:20:54 PM
To say that cryptocurrency is an alternate to fiat currency assumes that there is such a thing as non-fiat currency. I don't think there is such a thing as a non-fiat currency, as all pricing systems involve how much people are willing to pay for goods. Even based currencies are founded on this assumption. The US government saying that a dollar is worth a dollar doesn't stop prices from being assigned by supply and demand.
Not just by supply and demand .. since supply and demand are rigged by the government.
Five short parts on the South Sea Bubble ... that ruined Newton ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1kndKWJKB8
Quote from: SGOS on December 08, 2017, 08:25:48 PM
It does seem like cryptocurrency is just another fiat currency with it's value tied to arbitrary whim. A fiat. The old gold and silver standard was less of a fiat, except the value of gold and silver was arbitrary. It all seems fake like monopoly money to me, especially today. So why not just take something and assign it an arbitrary value and use that? We could used turtle shells.
Obama's trillion dollar platinum coin. We need a small treasure chest of those, to take care of the US for the next 100 years. Study Stone Age currency on the island of Yap in the Pacific. What makes government intervention less fair, than the private market, is that the government has guns. One thing that makes dollars mandatory, is that is the only currency the government accepts as tax payment.
Quote from: Hydra009 on December 08, 2017, 08:41:51 PM
We absolutely could. And historically, people have (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shell_money). Ideally, you want something that is 1) portable 2) exists in limited quantity 3) difficult to fake 4) doesn't decay quickly. Small shells are a decent commodity money.
They are called the money cowrie. But not all shells are equal. And money cowries were ... counterfeited. Human beings are intrinsically dishonest. Got wampum? The problem with modern fiat money, is that the government is free to counterfeit their own money, arbitrarily. They couldn't do that with gold and silver.
Quote from: SGOS on December 08, 2017, 08:51:26 PM
The biggest problem I see with bit coin is that it won't be accepted at Walmart. You could put up a fuss to the manager, but he would eventually call the cops. You'd spend the night in jail, all the while having a pile of bit coins that couldn't even get you a decent lawyer, or pay the damn fine. Go to the movies and give the ticket vendor guy a bit coin. Like what's he supposed to do with that? I just don't think it's very practical.
There is a solution. They want to ban all regular money. Only issue Food Stamp debit cards. All transactions must be by those cards. And those cards can be backed by anything the government likes, or nothing at all. Walmart would have to accept them, or go to jail.
One guy is sad, he was early into BitCoin, but misplaced his old HD from his PC, that had his BitCoin certs in it. They are now worth $150 million ;-(
The bitcoin will collapse like the Dutch Tulip Craze. The last in will be the suckers. But I sure wish I had bought in last year so I could sell out NOW!
Still, almost all currency is fake. Does any nation have the gold to cover their currency? And why is gold worth anything beyond industrial and jewelry value? It is all just an agreement we all have to trade real things for symbolic ones we all agree to accept.
I almost never use currency myself. I do virtually all transactions via credit cards. Currency is just something you need to pay the barber or the pizza delivery guy.
With enough tech, currency won't exist at all except in theory in banks. We will reach "credits" as the standard. And I doubt bitcoin will be that standard.
Sorry, I only accept cold pressed latinum ;-)
Quote from: Baruch on December 09, 2017, 05:32:32 AM
Sorry, I only accept cold pressed latinum ;-)
Your hair hides the ear surgery...
Quote from: Baruch on December 09, 2017, 12:21:36 AM
the question do you want to be screwed by licensed public banking or unlicensed private banking. Either way, you are screwed.
I don't know. I used to know what I'm up against with a public bank, but that's changed in the last 10 years. This bit coin thing may be better, but I'd be nervous about it. It's like some guys saw how the banks could clean up, and decided to try and get a piece of the action.
Quote from: SGOS on December 09, 2017, 07:45:13 AM
I don't know. I used to know what I'm up against with a public bank, but that's changed in the last 10 years. This bit coin thing may be better, but I'd be nervous about it. It's like some guys saw how the banks could clean up, and decided to try and get a piece of the action.
Cleaning up the clients ... is something investment advisors do. Like Madoff. Banks are big time scammers (like S&L before), only a little at a time, from a larger client base. Madoff's clientele was too small, and he got too greedy ... and he didn't enlist powerful enough politicians (like J P Morgan). Banking changed radically after 2000. You can thank Bill Clinton and the death of FDR finance laws. It got much worse in 2008 until now. Look up zombie bank. Right now you have low to zero gross interest, and with bank fees and inflation, it is net negative on your account. With inflation, that was always a possibility, but now it is a certainty. What they really want (the government) is gross negative interest, with the losses going to the government as hidden taxes ... and they let the banker skim a little of that plunder off the top. There is too much money in 401K accounts ;-) With banning all cash other than government debit card, you have no way to live without paying a "life" tax on every purchase (a VAT). Even in a system where you can print as much money as you want, if you are the right person ... people still want to steal ... because they are psycho.
That, at least, is true. Bitcoin, etc. are all ponzi schemes. Only the guys who get in early get rich. The latecomers get screwed.
Quote from: Hakurei Reimu on December 09, 2017, 06:34:53 PM
That, at least, is true. Bitcoin, etc. are all ponzi schemes. Only the guys who get in early get rich. The latecomers get screwed.
There is a chart, showing how long BitCoin lasted at a given price range. The lower the price, the longer it was in that range. Basically inverse exponential. So the higher it goes, the short time it stays there, until it goes higher. Exponentials work that way. But there is no way to make any such "commodity" continue up forever, it collapses eventually, to be replaced with the next tulip bulb mania.
Ive already doubled my money and ive only recently gotten in to crypto currencies, within a few months
Quote from: PickelledEggs on December 11, 2017, 02:21:08 PM
Ive already doubled my money and ive only recently gotten in to crypto currencies, within a few months
Double zero is still zero. The US dollar, and thus the US GDP is worth ... zero. When people realize that .. then that is the end.
But if you want to go to the casino ... just don't encourage others, or corrupt children, please.
I have some Hungarian hyperinflation currency from the 1940s ... a 1 billion x 10^12 pengos. That is sextillion pengos.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_pengÅ'
This was caused by socialism. Venezuela isn't even having fun yet. Magic thinking will make us all rich, I tell you!
To you it may be zero.
it's the same as any other currency.
Quote from: PickelledEggs on December 11, 2017, 10:53:46 PM
To you it may be zero.
it's the same as any other currency.
Only to a bigger fool. I won't be buying any Brooklyn bridge you might be selling sir.
Quote from: Baruch on December 11, 2017, 10:59:02 PM
Only to a bigger fool. I won't be buying any Brooklyn bridge you might be selling sir.
Your loss ;) ;) ;)
Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
The last investors are ones who get screwed and Bitcoin is no exception.
In fact, I am gradually getting out of the stock market. A collapse is overdue... Better to get out NEAR the top than after a crash. Greedy people get burned every time.
Quote from: Cavebear on December 12, 2017, 12:14:37 AM
The last investors are ones who get screwed and Bitcoin is no exception.
In fact, I am gradually getting out of the stock market. A collapse is overdue... Better to get out NEAR the top than after a crash. Greedy people get burned every time.
This.
Quote from: Cavebear on December 12, 2017, 01:55:00 AM
Don't see what you meant...
Youthspeak, old bear ;-) He was strongly agreeing with you, I think.
FYI, I just looked at my cryptocurrency wallet. Between my litecoin and EOS, my money has more than quadrupled.
you will say I'm the fool, but you can call me whatever you want, you peasants.
It isn't a currency. It's an asset, at best.
Quote from: PickelledEggs on December 12, 2017, 02:10:09 PM
FYI, I just looked at my cryptocurrency wallet. Between my litecoin and EOS, my money has more than quadrupled.
you will say I'm the fool, but you can call me whatever you want, you peasants.
When you become king, more wealthy than Bill Gates, please F* him in the ass for me. And make him thank you.
If your corner the market on rare Beanie-babies ... you are too late. That craze ended already.
Quote from: Sal1981 on December 12, 2017, 02:55:50 PM
It isn't a currency. It's an asset, at best.
Taking out insurance on other people's lives is an asset .. but only if they die. A tulip mania is death. That is why we speak English instead of Dutch ... the Dutch blew their chance.
Quote from: Sal1981 on December 12, 2017, 02:55:50 PM
It isn't a currency. It's an asset, at best.
Well, it is a currency. I've bought items with it.
Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
Well ... it is projected to be $100,000 per BitCoin soon. If it goes to $trillion, you won't have anyone to buy from, because the US isn't civilized, like Biafra and Rwanda ;-(
Quote from: Baruch on December 12, 2017, 06:52:07 PM
Well ... it is projected to be $100,000 per BitCoin soon. If it goes to $trillion, you won't have anyone to buy from, because the US isn't civilized, like Biafra and Rwanda ;-(
You can buy it in fractions. This comment alone of yours illustrates your lack of knowledge of the subject.
Quote from: PickelledEggs on December 11, 2017, 02:21:08 PM
Ive already doubled my money and ive only recently gotten in to crypto currencies, within a few months
o_O If you doubled more than a dollar, I've gotta get in on this stuff.
Quote from: Hydra009 on December 12, 2017, 07:41:29 PM
o_O If you doubled more than a dollar, I've gotta get in on this stuff.
yes
I put $100 in on litecoin, about a month ago, when it was 45 per coin, it shot up to a little over 200 and then I traded 1 coin worth in to EOS, another coin that is relatively new, but based on very reliable software and shows good promise for $3.50 a coin each, so now i have 37 and change in EOS. EOS has since went to $5.38 and Litecoin has jumped to $321.
I made my $100 in to $520 since about 2 months ago. Basically by doing nothing.
Basically, what all these different coins are.... its a format war. Like how different media battles it out to see what the public decides on. Eventually we decided on VHS. Eventually, for the next generation, we decided on DVD... and so on. This is the same. It's a new format of currency. Until recently, I was buying Steam games with my bitcoin. I traded some of my litecoin in to bitcoin and then used that to buy a steam game. I would have rather used Litecoin, but that is just me. My wallet, Exodus Wallet has a currency swap feature that lets you change the type of currency, so that makes it easy.
So yes. It's a legitimate currency. And yes, you can still get in to it and make money by investing in the correct one. Not bitcoin, because that time is past, but my advice is look at the newer ones. EOS is still pocket change to get in to, so that would be a safe bet, possibly. Litecoin is still a decent bet too, possibly. There are better people than me to talk to about this, but I can confirm that you can do it.
Quote from: PickelledEggs on December 12, 2017, 07:14:20 PM
You can buy it in fractions. This comment alone of yours illustrates your lack of knowledge of the subject.
Britannica knows everything, so bow down and worship the Britannica. But Britannica is a set of books, it understands nothing. So ... knowledge is of questionable value. Better to understand one thing, than know ten things, but understand nothing.
Yes, that is one very big feature (I have studied a book on the technical details of Etherium). Also I just read the NSA essay on cryptocurrency ... from 1997. You would be surprised what I know. But none of that matters, I understand there is no free lunch.
"Greece's Supreme Court has rejected an appeal by Russian national Aleksandr Vinnik, the purported mastermind of what US authorities have described as a $4 billion bitcoin money laundering operation, to avoid extradition to the US, where he has been indicted â€" along with his former company, mysterious digital currency exchange BTC-e â€" on nearly two dozen felony counts, including fraud and money laundering."
Russia is also trying to extradite him ... because he is accused of fraud/theft there too ... or is it to prevent him from testifying? This guy is also accused of the Mt Gox heist. Need I mention Silk Road and other prior scandals? And the guy backing Etherium is a 23 year old prodigy, who is Russian-Canadian living in with a gnome girlfriend in Switzerland. Just don't touch the Dark Net, if you know what is good for you.
If it lasts, I'm in, great; if it collapses, it will have cost me effectively nothing. The faucet I usually use has slowed its payouts, but that's to be expected considering the jump Bitcoin's taken. Even so, it's money for nothing, effectively. I wouldn't count on it to underpin my future, but I'm not going to walk away from it just because it's volatile. It's all a matter of your expectations of it.
Quote from: PickelledEggs on December 12, 2017, 02:10:09 PM
FYI, I just looked at my cryptocurrency wallet. Between my litecoin and EOS, my money has more than quadrupled.
you will say I'm the fool, but you can call me whatever you want, you peasants.
Remember the Dutch Tulip Craze... The faster the UP the suddener the DOWN. I moved 1/3 of my investments to government securities yesterday. And I will be moving my US domestic stocks to safe places after the temporary stock upburst of the Republican tax bill soon.
I'll hold on to my foreign stocks a bit longer.
Hard to dodge the Dodge Ball. The rulers seem to be wanting to crapify anything that ordinary people can invest in. But not Bahama islands and nuclear bunkers, most of us can't participate in those markets.
(http://files.explosm.net/comics/Rob/bitcoin.png?t=A46C75)
Sell high, buy low. In today's electronic market, that means you have to be on top of things, minute by minute, like a day trader from 2007.
One more reason to be skeptical (or two, actually)...
Mother Jones reports that the energy costs of running Bitcoin servers has skyrocketed, and this is primarily fueled my fossil fuels. The current estimate is that bit coin servers are currently using about as much energy as Morocco, or more than 19 E.U. States... and that number is going to rise.
Additionally multiple sources says rogue states like North Korea are using cryptocurrencies to bypass freezes on their accounts and bans on their businesses.
I can find the links when I get home, though both are very easy to Google, but that is frankly something I don't have any desire to be involved with, regardless of "how good of deal" it is, and that the bubble could "never burst"...
A BitCoin transaction at a store, takes 5000 times as much energy as an ordinary credit card. The largest BitCoin mining operation is in China (70% of all BitCoin mining is now being done in China), in Inner Mongolia (at their famous unoccupied ghost city of Ordos). BitCoin mining is one scam, trading them like stock is another. Using them for transactions is "meh" unless you are an environmentalist. Back in the day ... with a mechanical cash register, it took zero electricity to make a purchase. You can make electronic purchases with ApplePay ... in more ordinary ways.
https://spectrum.ieee.org/computing/networks/why-the-biggest-bitcoin-mines-are-in-china
A wise person once said "Stupid people fall for the dumbest things. That how you know they are stupid; and so do smart stupid people". And "If it's too good to be true; it isn't". And "Those who don't know financial history repeat it".
Wish I knew who that was.
Do I wish I had gotten into Bitcoins at the bottom? Sure, so I could sell them now. And I wish I had bought into Microsoft and Facebook at the bottom. But for every Bitcoin, Microsoft, and Apple, there are 10,000 stocks that went belly up. I had a co-worker who invested everything in Sprint. He lost everything, too.
I'm happy with the broad Vanguard index funds that went up an average of 12% for several years.
I'm not greedy. I'm bailing out. Sure, the markets may go up for months. But it isn't going to last. I'm not trying to "time the market", just choosing to leave it for a while as it settles to a 20,000 Dow. And I'm not a catastrophe-player buying gold either. I'm just moving everything to CDs and Treasury Notes. 3% while the market fails is looking good.
You are a conservative investor, who holds, doesn't churn, but also isn't completely passive either. Vanguard isn't bad.
"I had a co-worker who invested everything in Sprint. He lost everything, too." ... ouch, I wonder how my day-trader friend is doing now.
Quote from: Baruch on December 18, 2017, 06:58:08 AM
You are a conservative investor, who holds, doesn't churn, but also isn't completely passive either. Vanguard isn't bad.
"I had a co-worker who invested everything in Sprint. He lost everything, too." ... ouch, I wonder how my day-trader friend is doing now.
I have money in CDs, Savings Bonds, Vanguard index funds (in the 3x3 grid of Value, Growth, and Blend along the top, and Large Cap, Mid Cap, and Small Cap down the side), plus a few foreign exchange indexes.
From 1990, when I first got ahead of my debts, I put half of every promotion into bank savings accounts. And every time the stock market fell, I bought in.
Buy low and hold...
Quote from: Cavebear on December 18, 2017, 05:35:32 AM
A wise person once said "Stupid people fall for the dumbest things. That how you know they are stupid; and so do smart stupid people". And "If it's too good to be true; it isn't". And "Those who don't know financial history repeat it".
Wish I knew who that was.
Do I wish I had gotten into Bitcoins at the bottom? Sure, so I could sell them now. And I wish I had bought into Microsoft and Facebook at the bottom. But for every Bitcoin, Microsoft, and Apple, there are 10,000 stocks that went belly up. I had a co-worker who invested everything in Sprint. He lost everything, too.
I'm happy with the broad Vanguard index funds that went up an average of 12% for several years.
I'm not greedy. I'm bailing out. Sure, the markets may go up for months. But it isn't going to last. I'm not trying to "time the market", just choosing to leave it for a while as it settles to a 20,000 Dow. And I'm not a catastrophe-player buying gold either. I'm just moving everything to CDs and Treasury Notes. 3% while the market fails is looking good.
That's me too. I have no imaginary fantasy about getting rich in the stock market. I've played it years ago, but I have no interest in it now. I have what I need, and am comfortable with that, and don't want to waste what little I do have.
Quote from: SGOS on December 18, 2017, 10:54:17 AM
That's me too. I have no imaginary fantasy about getting rich in the stock market. I've played it years ago, but I have no interest in it now. I have what I need, and am comfortable with that, and don't want to waste what little I do have.
Well, to be honest, I DID get rich in the stock market. I invested $200,00 slowly and it is now um, "more". And its not "online".
The odd thing is that it sort of snuck up on me while I wasn't looking. That's why I moved it offline. Harder to mess with. Snail mail DOES have some advantages.
Quote from: Cavebear on December 18, 2017, 11:04:12 AM
Well, to be honest, I DID get rich in the stock market. I invested $200,00 slowly and it is now um, "more". And its not "online".
The odd thing is that it sort of snuck up on me while I wasn't looking. That's why I moved it offline. Harder to mess with. Snail mail DOES have some advantages.
Back in the early 70s, a time which I now consider "before inflation," I left a job at the University of Maine after three years. They would not give me the money I had been required to put into their retirement plan. It wasn't much, probably less than $1500 so I just forgot about it. Many years later I got a mysterious letter from some outfit called TIAA CREF. It looked like junk mail, and they said they needed to know my whereabouts. Ordinarily, I would have thrown it in the garbage right away, but something about it caught my interest. I cautiously called a phone number in the letter to find out what this was. I'm not sure why. Some guy on the phone said they were trying to locate me, and said something about a retirement plan. I thought maybe he wanted to sell me one. I asked, "Does this have something to do with me working at the University of Maine 20 years ago," and he replied, "Well, it might, I don't have that information in front of me right now. You don't know who we are?" I said I didn't, so he explained that I had this money that had been sitting in an account for years, and it could now be dispersed. But I was still 10 years away from retirement.
I asked him how much was in the account, and he replied, "Well, there's $18,000 sitting in it right now, but you could leave it there or take part of it out in cash, or choose a monthly annuity payment." This was somewhere after the time when the DOW had gone from 700 up to 2500, so I just left it there until I retired. Now I get this little extra bump each month. Not enough to live on by itself, but I chuckle every month when it shows up in my bank account.
Quote from: SGOS on December 18, 2017, 11:34:12 AM
Back in the early 70s, a time which I now consider "before inflation," I left a job at the University of Maine after three years. They would not give me the money I had been required to put into their retirement plan. It wasn't much, probably less than $1500 so I just forgot about it. Many years later I got a mysterious letter from some outfit called TIAA CREF. It looked like junk mail, and they said they needed to know my whereabouts. Ordinarily, I would have thrown it in the garbage right away, but something about it caught my interest. I cautiously called a phone number in the letter to find out what this was. I'm not sure why. Some guy on the phone said they were trying to locate me, and said something about a retirement plan. I thought maybe he wanted to sell me one. I asked, "Does this have something to do with me working at the University of Maine 20 years ago," and he replied, "Well, it might, I don't have that information in front of me right now. You don't know who we are?" I said I didn't, so he explained that I had this money that had been sitting in an account for years, and it could now be dispersed. But I was still 10 years away from retirement.
I asked him how much was in the account, and he replied, "Well, there's $18,000 sitting in it right now, but you could leave it there or take part of it out in cash, or choose a monthly annuity payment." This was somewhere after the time when the DOW had gone from 700 up to 2500, so I just left it there until I retired. Now I get this little extra bump each month. Not enough to live on by itself, but I chuckle every month when it shows up in my bank account.
Outstanding! Found money is the best kind. The choice is to spend it wisely or save/invest it wisely. Good deciding!
I'm looking at electric cars myself. I would do solar panels on the roof, but I have too many large trees shadibg it. But that is passive cooling, so OK.
Bitcoin worth dropped by 1/3 of its total value yesterday. That was fast...
Quote from: Shiranu on December 22, 2017, 03:48:55 PM
Bitcoin worth dropped by 1/3 of its total value yesterday. That was fast...
Sheesh! That's volatile.
Quote from: SGOS on December 22, 2017, 03:59:28 PM
Sheesh! That's volatile.
Nothing compared to BitCoin futures (BitCoin Cash) ... futures are turbulence magnified. Bet all your money now, or you won't win!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjkwohRR7S4 ... and a fool and his money get out while they still can.
Blockchain is a real technology (nothing special however in fundamentals) used in BitCoin but can be used for many other things.
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2017/12/iced-tea-company-changes-name-to-long-blockchain-stock-immediately-skyrockets
An example of stock mania to go with the BitCoin mania. It is just Chinese housewives with hot yuan burning a hole in their hand.
Bonfire of the Vanity Faire.
Quote from: SGOS on December 22, 2017, 03:59:28 PM
Sheesh! That's volatile.
I am not the least surprised. Indeed, I was expecting it.
Quote from: Cavebear on December 22, 2017, 11:37:28 PM
I am not the least surprised. Indeed, I was expecting it.
Since 2008, the money is made in volatility, not value. This used to be call churning, and was against the law. Hence the LiteCoin founder admitting that every time he farted, the value of LiteCoin would jump up and down, like a man with bad case of diarrhea.
Traditional investing was based on integration, not differentiation. An integration of a variable curve, gets smother the more times you integrated it.
Quote from: Baruch on December 22, 2017, 11:52:33 PM
Since 2008, the money is made in volatility, not value. This used to be call churning, and was against the law. Hence the LiteCoin founder admitting that every time he farted, the value of LiteCoin would jump up and down, like a man with bad case of diarrhea.
Traditional investing was based on integration, not differentiation. An integration of a variable curve, gets smother the more times you integrated it.
Did you mean "smoother" or did you mean "smothered"? It actually makes a difference in thought.
Quote from: Cavebear on December 23, 2017, 03:28:26 AM
Did you mean "smoother" or did you mean "smothered"? It actually makes a difference in thought.
Oops ... smoother. But Freudian Slip for the Chaos Capitalists ... so make a curve smoother, is to smother their gambling opportunities.
Quote from: Baruch on December 23, 2017, 07:13:19 AM
Oops ... smoother. But Freudian Slip for the Chaos Capitalists ... so make a curve smoother, is to smother their gambling opportunities.
Well, while you were deciding on "smoother", I hauled a trailerload of yard debris to the recycling center 12 miles away and got a load of still-steaming mulch in return and drove it home.
What did YOU do the last hour?
Quote from: Cavebear on December 23, 2017, 10:03:45 AM
Well, while you were deciding on "smoother", I hauled a trailerload of yard debris to the recycling center 12 miles away and got a load of still-steaming mulch in return and drove it home.
What did YOU do the last hour?
Ate breakfast (breakfast burrito), had coffee. Continued my study of 11th century Jewish-Arabic theology. Listened to some Indian ragas.
Quote from: Baruch on December 23, 2017, 11:30:42 AM
Ate breakfast (breakfast burrito), had coffee. Continued my study of 11th century Jewish-Arabic theology. Listened to some Indian ragas.
Good. There is hope for you yet.
Tell us about 11th century Jewish-Arabic theology...
Quote from: Cavebear on December 23, 2017, 12:35:17 PM
Good. There is hope for you yet.
Tell us about 11th century Jewish-Arabic theology...
You are joking, right?
So didn't mention that my cats gave me the privilege of supporting them this morning. Also they let me go and buy more cat food for them. I got stuff to make the holiday bracelet I am making for my daughter (the timing is holiday, not the bracelet). I had lunch, ate half, and saved the rest for later. I will read a little from my Modern Standard Arabic textbook to put me into nap time.
Quote from: Baruch on December 23, 2017, 01:42:10 PM
You are joking, right?
So didn't mention that my cats gave me the privilege of supporting them this morning. Also the let me go and buy more cat food for them. I got stuff to make the holiday bracelet I am making for my daughter (the timing is holiday, not the bracelet). I had lunch, ate half, and saved the rest for later. I will read a little from my Modern Standard Arabic textbook to put me into nap time.
Fed the 3 cats 1st and 2nd breakfast, 1st and 2nd lunch, and 1st and 2nd dinner (one has volume issues). Cleaned the 4 litter boxes. Let them outside on the deck while standing there watching for the new hawk in the neighborhood. It picked off 2 male cardinals last week and one squirrel. I'm thinking of putting up netting and covering the deck.
Sometimes I spend an evening watching science/nature DVDs while eating dinner. Or reading atheist tracts before watching MSNBC Hayes and Maddow.
How can we be so similar and so different? LOL!
Quote from: Cavebear on December 23, 2017, 02:04:25 PM
Fed the 3 cats 1st and 2nd breakfast, 1st and 2nd lunch, and 1st and 2nd dinner (one has volume issues). Cleaned the 4 litter boxes. Let them outside on the deck while standing there watching for the new hawk in the neighborhood. It picked off 2 male cardinals last week and one squirrel. I'm thinking of putting up netting and covering the deck.
Sometimes I spend an evening watching science/nature DVDs while eating dinner. Or reading atheist tracts before watching MSNBC Hayes and Maddow.
How can we be so similar and so different? LOL!
There are billions of ways to be human. So the miracle is the similarity, not the difference.
Quote from: Baruch on December 23, 2017, 02:20:22 PM
There are billions of ways to be human. So the miracle is the similarity, not the difference.
Happy Solstice and Merry Christmas, Baruch. The days are now lengthening toward the growing season of ripe garden produce and amazing flowers. I look forward to this day every year.
But you really annoy the Hell out of me sometimes...
Happy Solstice to you also ... and be glad we worked in different government offices.
Quote from: Baruch on December 24, 2017, 01:36:25 AM
Happy Solstice to you also ... and be glad we worked in different government offices.
I can image you do. I would have been your boss. Seniority matters. But so does organization. And organization is what I did.
Quote from: Cavebear on December 26, 2017, 05:28:08 AM
I can image you do. I would have been your boss. Seniority matters. But so does organization. And organization is what I did.
Bossy much? Moo.
Quote from: Baruch on December 26, 2017, 09:29:39 AM
Bossy much? Moo.
No actually. But I have had to manage some extremist dumb asses from time to time. And not willingly. I HATE having to tell people to do the obvious. As most of THOSE said "moo". LOL!
Quote from: Cavebear on December 26, 2017, 09:51:10 AM
No actually. But I have had to manage some extremist dumb asses from time to time. And not willingly. I HATE having to tell people to do the obvious. As most of THOSE said "moo". LOL!
Glad you didn't steer them wrong ;-) Politics in the military is very ... no-no. I hope it is the same in the civilian agencies, even the Postal department.
Sorry, I only accept Zimbabwe trillion dollar bills..
Here is how to make money on bitcoins...
Don't buy any.
PS: Works with lottery tickets too...
Quote from: Cavebear on January 10, 2018, 11:26:23 AM
Here is how to make money on bitcoins...
Don't buy any.
PS: Works with lottery tickets too...
I could make money being a hit-man ... and per Capitalism I could do that legally. The question is ... how to avoid losing money on bitcoins ... don't buy any.
Quote from: Baruch on January 10, 2018, 03:31:55 PM
I could make money being a hit-man ... and per Capitalism I could do that legally.
Actually, NO. Trump hasn't revoked THAT law yet. But I'm sure he is working on it. He's gone after every other rule...