https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-07-29/tesla-s-model-3-arrives-with-a-surprise-310-mile-range
(https://www.tesla.com/tesla_theme/assets/img/compare/model_s--side_profile.png?20170524)
The latest low price range Tesla goes more than 300 miles between charges. And it's not like one of those ugly boxes that started showing up 10 years ago. Its design is actually more pleasant than most late model cars, although that's a subjective call, I suppose. It looks like a Mazda 3, which somewhat bucks the modern trend to build automobiles that resemble giant cockroaches, a look that I could never wrap my head around.
But 300 miles on a charge breaks a barrier in my mind. You could actually take a cross country trip in a car like that. There are still compromises one would have to make, probably in trunk space. Recharging will probably take longer than a gas fillup, although I've never seen that issue addressed, and of course, the biggy is the $44,000 dollar price tag, so figure a rough $50,000 by the time the dealer is done fucking with you. But still, this is a lot less than those $350,000 concept cars of a few years ago.
This is not Adolph Hitler's peoples car, a "volks wagen" that anyone can afford. Yes there was a time when anyone could afford a Volkswagen, but the CEO decided there was more money to be made in up-scaled expensive cars, so the original concept got lost. Tesla is on to something. They are skipping the whole affordability thing, and building it for the Corporate board room. But the cost will come down. After all, it's just a car made out of metal and plastic, with technology that already exists for the most part.
The biggest stumbling blocks will probably be from the petroleum industry, but those guys could just take their profits and use it to go into the electric car business. When it comes to wealth building capitalism, does it make any difference where the money comes from? There is nothing particularly sacred about fossil fuels. It's mostly just a tradition.
One plausible solution to long charges is swapping out batteries at fuel stations.
in theory one can certainly power one of those via wind power or solar power. Building a vast infrastructure to support it ... is comparable to what it took to build the existing structure. Who will pay for it? The first system was paid for by burning cheap petroleum. I thought we should have gotten moving on alternatives 30+ years ago.
"You could actually take a cross country trip in a car like that. "
How long to charge the batteries at each stop?
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on July 30, 2017, 08:25:56 AM
"You could actually take a cross country trip in a car like that. "
How long to charge the batteries at each stop?
I don't know. More than a fill up I would guess. It could be a problem during busy times.
Quote from: SGOS on July 30, 2017, 09:08:08 AM
I don't know. More than a fill up I would guess. It could be a problem during busy times.
So, if you can't park it for a night you have to park it for a day, to charge it. (times approx.)
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on July 30, 2017, 10:40:47 AM
So, if you can't park it for a night you have to park it for a day, to charge it. (times approx.)
I'm speculating 30 minutes for a battery swap, assuming it isn't lunch hour, and you don't have to wait in line. But behind a line of cars, well, I don't want to even think about it.
Quote from: SGOS on July 30, 2017, 11:12:56 AM
I'm speculating 30 minutes for a battery swap, assuming it isn't lunch hour, and you don't have to wait in line. But behind a line of cars, well, I don't want to even think about it.
And how far apart are the battery changing stations?
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on July 30, 2017, 12:28:05 PM
And how far apart are the battery changing stations?
Take a look (https://www.plugshare.com/).
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on July 30, 2017, 12:28:05 PM
And how far apart are the battery changing stations?
310 miles?
Quote from: SGOS on July 30, 2017, 01:39:11 PM
That would be a problem.
When propane was a hot idea the joke was "Where's the nearest propane filling station?" "Don't care, we can just fart into the tank."
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on July 30, 2017, 08:25:56 AM
"You could actually take a cross country trip in a car like that. "
How long to charge the batteries at each stop?
The first guy to prove cross country in the US was Lt Eisenhower.
Quote from: SGOS on July 30, 2017, 09:08:08 AM
I don't know. More than a fill up I would guess. It could be a problem during busy times.
Elite privilege ... just show the peasant out of the way if the recharge station is already occupied ;-)
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on July 30, 2017, 03:35:32 PM
When propane was a hot idea the joke was "Where's the nearest propane filling station?" "Don't care, we can just fart into the tank."
This is why propane is better for stationary users ... like homes.
Quote from: Atheon on July 30, 2017, 07:34:47 AM
One plausible solution to long charges is swapping out batteries at fuel stations.
From what I understand, with the earlier Tesla models, the batteries were made to fit below the entire floor of the passenger compartment thus making the swapping of batteries a fairly major job. Definitely not something to roll in an do in 30 minutes without an appointment.. I would expect they went a similar route with this model.
However I believe those earlier models are able to charge in about 30-45 minutes at a quick-charge station. This model has increased range which would suggest additional battery capacity and therefore longer charge times, but with Tesla its hard to say.
The bottom line is a cross-country trip in an electric car is possible right now. But you can't go just anywhere. You need to plan your route and you need to plan on stopping for an hour or so about every 4 hours. That's not a whole lot different than the way many people travel now. But those who like to do long trips by piling in the car and driving straight through for 16 hours only stopping long enough to refill the gas tank are going to be disappointed.
The real important question is still the same as it always was. How long does the battery pack last and what will it cost to replace. A $40k Tesla is certainly a ground-breaking thing. But if the batteries only last 5 years and cost $20k to replace, that's really going to kick the ass out of any resale value.
Battery location? Must have stolen the plans from Chrysler. When they first designed the Abrams tank, you had to pull out the entire engine to get to the damn oil filter!
Batteries under the car are to save trunk space. If that is a premium, I guess that's the compromise. I'd have to envision a cumbersome time consuming lift or a waiting room full of annoyed people thumbing through magazines, while their batteries get charged. Imagine buying a car without a trunk. That's going to cripple sales. People that can afford a Tesla won't be affected by hard to replace batteries. They are probably going to trade if off anyway. Once every five years for a four hour battery replacement isn't a huge inconvenience, certainly no more so than a valve job. But that leaves us with the problem of charging time. My driving habits of the past involved all nighters to get to some distant location, and it would drive me nuts having to kill time in a restaurant or library. I guess I'd have to adjust. On, the horror!
I guess we aren't quite there yet.
Just drop the bottom of the car, then push it over the fresh batteries and use a lift to put them in place. Done intelligently that would be a ten minute operation.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on July 31, 2017, 12:41:00 PM
Just drop the bottom of the car, then push it over the fresh batteries and use a lift to put them in place. Done intelligently that would be a ten minute operation.
There may be a future for you with Tesla.
I have a hunch there has never been nor will there ever be a plan in place to build affordable electric cars for the masses. Another thing people forget is all that electricity has to originate somewhere so even if there are charging stations coast to coast there still has to be giant electrical generating plants spewing out the same old pollutant, just more of them closer together.
Quote from: SGOS on July 31, 2017, 01:01:31 PM
There may be a future for you with Tesla.
If they haven't considered this already I don't want to work there.
Quote from: AllPurposeAtheist on July 31, 2017, 03:26:52 PM
Another thing people forget is all that electricity has to originate somewhere so even if there are charging stations coast to coast there still has to be giant electrical generating plants spewing out the same old pollutant, just more of them closer together.
I don't think anyone forgets that. Especially those who currently own and drive these things. A quick search of google will reveal that many who are currently driving electric cars can tell you to the penny what it costs them to run and can also tell you to the penny what it cost them to run the gasoline powered car their electric car replaced.
Most of the reports I've read show that the electric vehicle is somewhere around 5x-10x less expensive to fuel than an equivalent gasoline powered vehicle. That's not to say that paying $8 instead of $40 in order to get the car another couple hundred miles down the road means the car is necessarily 5x-10x more efficient nor that it has 5x-10x less detrimental impact on the environment. But $8 per fillup is still $8 per fillup. And it stands to reason that if you're paying that much less for the energy required, its probably somewhat more efficient overall and probably more green.
Quote from: Johan on July 31, 2017, 07:03:21 PMMost of the reports I've read show that the electric vehicle is somewhere around 5x-10x less expensive to fuel than an equivalent gasoline powered vehicle.
From what I've read (https://energy.gov/maps/egallon), it's usually more like half as much, though it can vary depending on a bunch of factors and I have no doubt that 5x is possible when the price of gas is high.
But a buck saved is a buck saved. And it goes without saying that every ton of carbon not spewed into the atmosphere helps.
Quote from: Johan on July 31, 2017, 07:03:21 PM
I don't think anyone forgets that.
Baruch likes being sanctimonious.
Quote from: AllPurposeAtheist on July 31, 2017, 03:26:52 PM
I have a hunch there has never been nor will there ever be a plan in place to build affordable electric cars for the masses. Another thing people forget is all that electricity has to originate somewhere so even if there are charging stations coast to coast there still has to be giant electrical generating plants spewing out the same old pollutant, just more of them closer together.
I thought our Fuhrer was going to give all the Volk, free Volkswagen beetles ;-)
You can get your electricity without burning carbon. Claims as to how cheap or expensive that will be ... lets have Venezuela try it first since they seem to be expendable.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on July 31, 2017, 12:41:00 PM
Just drop the bottom of the car, then push it over the fresh batteries and use a lift to put them in place. Done intelligently that would be a ten minute operation.
That is how the first H-bombs were loaded into the bombers, because the bomb was initially so big.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on July 31, 2017, 09:29:09 PM
Baruch likes being sanctimonious.
I don't have to pray whether my extension cord will reach my Volt or not ... don't have one.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on July 31, 2017, 09:29:09 PM
Baruch likes being sanctimonious.
I wouldn't know. Put him on my ignore list long ago.
Quote from: Johan on August 01, 2017, 06:15:13 AM
I wouldn't know. Put him on my ignore list long ago.
Your loss, my gain ;-)
Quote from: Baruch on July 30, 2017, 09:27:37 PM
The first guy to prove cross country in the US was Lt Eisenhower.
Interesting. Tell us about that.
Quote from: Cavebear on August 31, 2017, 03:54:05 AM
Interesting. Tell us about that.
http://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/in-1919-dwight-d-eisenhower-suffered-through-historys-worst-cross-country-road-trip
Correction in 1919 ... he was a Major, not a Lieutenant ... and not the Lt Col claimed in the article.
Quote from: Baruch on August 31, 2017, 10:40:35 AM
http://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/in-1919-dwight-d-eisenhower-suffered-through-historys-worst-cross-country-road-trip
Correction in 1919 ... he was a Major, not a Lieutenant ... and not the Lt Col claimed in the article.
What do you mean by "prove cross country"? I don't care if he was a major or a Lt.
Quote from: Cavebear on August 31, 2017, 11:49:30 AM
What do you mean by "prove cross country"? I don't care if he was a major or a Lt.
He got credit, not the other guys ... that it could be done. Because of who he was later. Typical Army. If one of the other guys on the expedition had become famous, became President, authorized the interstate highway system ... she would have gotten credit ;-) Maybe it was his wife's idea for him to go? Maybe he was just trying to spend time away from her? Before 1919, except for trains, you couldn't get from coast to coast overland by motor vehicle. Their expedition barely made it as it was. Conestoga wagons don't count.
Quote from: Baruch on August 31, 2017, 01:01:02 PM
He got credit, not the other guys ... that it could be done. Because of who he was later. Typical Army. If one of the other guys on the expedition had become famous, became President, authorized the interstate highway system ... she would have gotten credit ;-) Maybe it was his wife's idea for him to go? Maybe he was just trying to spend time away from her? Before 1919, except for trains, you couldn't get from coast to coast overland by motor vehicle. Their expedition barely made it as it was. Conestoga wagons don't count.
No, I mean I don't understand what "prove cross country" means. You have to enlighten me on that one. I know what Eisenhower did as President you *%#* LOL!!
Quote from: Atheon on July 30, 2017, 07:34:47 AM
One plausible solution to long charges is swapping out batteries at fuel stations.
The real solution is to have solar-powered cars - coming soon to a road near you!
http://inhabitat.com/tag/solar-powered-car/
(https://www.dasolar.com/images/pages/michigan-solar-car1_2.jpg)
Quote from: Unbeliever on August 31, 2017, 02:46:01 PM
The real solution is to have solar-powered cars - coming soon to a road near you!
http://inhabitat.com/tag/solar-powered-car/
(https://www.dasolar.com/images/pages/michigan-solar-car1_2.jpg)
Too cloudy here and I like to drive at night using a car kept in the garage. Waiting for fuel cells. Swappable would be good though.