QuoteThe U.S. is entering a period when its commitment to religious liberty is being tested, Supreme Court Justice Samuel Alito told an audience Wednesday at an event sponsored by a Catholic lawyers’ organization.
Alito used his own words from his dissent in the Supreme Court’s landmark same-sex marriage case, telling the gathering he had predicted opposition to the decision would be used to “vilify those who disagree, and treat them as bigots.â€
“We are seeing this is coming to pass,†he said, then mentioned Bob Dylan’s famous song lyric, “You don’t need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows.â€
“A wind is picking up that is hostile to those with traditional moral beliefs,†Alito said.
https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2017/03/supreme-court-justice-alito-gays-treat-conservative-christians-bigots/
What is it with every idiotic theist carrying one of these in their wallets:
(https://inchristandunchurched.files.wordpress.com/2014/08/victim-card.jpg?w=640)
Quote from: Sorginak on March 16, 2017, 01:43:09 PM
https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2017/03/supreme-court-justice-alito-gays-treat-conservative-christians-bigots/
Alito used his own words from his dissent in the Supreme Court’s landmark same-sex marriage case, telling the gathering he had predicted opposition to the decision would be used to “vilify those who disagree, and treat them as bigots.â€
Not all Christians are bigots. Many are intensely bigoted. Believing that any morality not their own and that those who fall outside that morality don't deserve equal treatment fits the description of a bigot. Bigots want the power to make others conform to their moral code, and as such, they are defined as bigots.
I find Alito's remarks laughably ironic. Paraphrased, "We are not bigots. We just believe in denying rights to those we disagree with." Maybe someday, he will read his own words and think, "OMG! What was I thinking," but I doubt it.
Quote...then mentioned Bob Dylan’s famous song lyric, “You don’t need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows.â€
Okay, this is a little weird, and completely irrelevant to the discussion, but "Subterranean Homesick Blues"(the song that line is from) is the last song that I listened to today, prior to reading this thread.
That asshole, twisting my favorite line from that song, makes me sick.
Yes, Conservative Christians ... are usually bigots. They won't be treated that way by gays etc ... when they stop being the usual bigots.
Bump.
I'm genuinely curious as to how conservatives thought this would play out.
* Gay people lobby for equal marriage rights with increasing success.
* Conservatives call them sexual deviants and claim that their lobbying is tantamount to "destroying" marriage.
* Conservatives lose the debate and gay marriage goes national.
* Conservatives stunned at being called bigots and find their "traditional values" to be poorly regarded by non-conservatives.
What other outcome did they expect?
This is why secularism is the only course to go, since religious and political beliefs form a bubble around you, unable to think outside that bubble.
Quote from: Munch on March 16, 2017, 07:52:21 PM
This is why secularism is the only course to go, since religious and political beliefs form a bubble around you, unable to think outside that bubble.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qaFvc3blWp4
Don't diss bubbles ;-)
Hmmmm, I wonder why, Alito.
Maybe it's because conservative Christians ARE bigots toward gay people. Surprise, surprise!
Quote“A wind is picking up that is hostile to those with traditional moral beliefs,†Alito said.
Good.
Quote from: Hydra009 on March 16, 2017, 07:47:56 PM
I'm genuinely curious as to how conservatives thought this would play out.
* Gay people lobby for equal marriage rights with increasing success.
* Conservatives call them sexual deviants and claim that their lobbying is tantamount to "destroying" marriage.
* Conservatives lose the debate and gay marriage goes national.
* Conservatives stunned at being called bigots and find their "traditional values" to be poorly regarded by non-conservatives.
What other outcome did they expect?
I don't know what they actually expected, but what you described is exactly how I expected they would react.
Bigots that I know, don't consider themselves bigots. They consider themselves justified because they never considered anything else. When they are challenged, their narrow mindedness shows up as a dim light in the back of their brain. They need to react, often times by entrenching themselves deeper into their bigotry.
I also anticipated the evolution of the debate to turn out as it did. Bigots first opposed gay marriage because it was biblically wrong. When more and more people started to question that particular biblical teaching, the bigots opposed gay marriage because it would weaken traditional marriage. These first two were attempts to claim the moral high ground (who would defy god, or de-sanctify the holiness of traditional marriage?)
When both of those failed, their last attempt was to show their true colors: "We must be allowed to exert power over gays, and refuse to treat them as equals, because of our deep religious convictions."
Here they are letting the cat out of the bag and making it obvious about the bigotry of their beliefs, but just as I anticipated, they still can't see their bigotry. Instead, they claim to be acting under the direction of an imaginary 3rd party. But I think as the underlying bigotry of their position becomes more and more obvious, it will eventually lead to a moment of clarity leading to a revelation of self. It hasn't happened yet, and I don't expect it to happen to every bigot. But I believe a few who are willing to honestly self evaluate will have an experience of self understanding, and rethink their previous position.
Basically, society is experiencing a collective moment of clarity as we speak, although it's not a sudden insight. It's more like a millennium of slowly dawning clarity, resulting in a slowly evolving understanding of gays, and tilting the attitude of the collective consciousness in favor of acceptance, combined with a rejection of previous bigoted assumptions.
Quote from: Baruch on March 16, 2017, 11:05:05 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qaFvc3blWp4
Don't diss bubbles ;-)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htDt8I9Qt0Y
Quote from: Hydra009 on March 16, 2017, 07:47:56 PM
I'm genuinely curious as to how conservatives thought this would play out.
* Gay people lobby for equal marriage rights with increasing success.
* Conservatives call them sexual deviants and claim that their lobbying is tantamount to "destroying" marriage.
* Conservatives lose the debate and gay marriage goes national.
* Conservatives stunned at being called bigots and find their "traditional values" to be poorly regarded by non-conservatives.
What other outcome did they expect?
Conservatives always think they are "The Silent Majority".
Quote from: SGOS on March 17, 2017, 09:57:04 AM
I don't know what they actually expected, but what you described is exactly how I expected they would react.
Bigots that I know, don't consider themselves bigots. They consider themselves justified because they never considered anything else. When they are challenged, their narrow mindedness shows up as a dim light in the back of their brain. They need to react, often times by entrenching themselves deeper into their bigotry.
I also anticipated the evolution of the debate to turn out as it did. Bigots first opposed gay marriage because it was biblically wrong. When more and more people started to question that particular biblical teaching, the bigots opposed gay marriage because it would weaken traditional marriage. These first two were attempts to claim the moral high ground (who would defy god, or de-sanctify the holiness of traditional marriage?)
When both of those failed, their last attempt was to show their true colors: "We must be allowed to exert power over gays, and refuse to treat them as equals, because of our deep religious convictions."
Here they are letting the cat out of the bag and making it obvious about the bigotry of their beliefs, but just as I anticipated, they still can't see their bigotry. Instead, they claim to be acting under the direction of an imaginary 3rd party. But I think as the underlying bigotry of their position becomes more and more obvious, it will eventually lead to a moment of clarity leading to a revelation of self. It hasn't happened yet, and I don't expect it to happen to every bigot. But I believe a few who are willing to honestly self evaluate will have an experience of self understanding, and rethink their previous position.
Basically, society is experiencing a collective moment of clarity as we speak, although it's not a sudden insight. It's more like a millennium of slowly dawning clarity, resulting in a slowly evolving understanding of gays, and tilting the attitude of the collective consciousness in favor of acceptance, combined with a rejection of previous bigoted assumptions.
No one ever considers themselves "bigots". They are convinced they are right and their views are correct. Then the majority disagrees, they either decide the majority isn't the majority or that the majority needs to "learn the truth".
I watched a Republican Congressman on TV a couple days ago who said that you can't maintain a civilization with "other people's babies". That was so dumb. He didn't even realize that he was suggesting eugenics.
Lastly, it amazes me when really conservative people bring out the vaguest arguments in their support. When facts fail, they suggest social breakdown. And what it THAT other than "not what they like"?
Yes, eugenics is coming ... the public isn't ready for it yet. We used to have that policy in the US, the Germans were copying us. And it was, and will be ... bipartisan. National security y'know!
Quote from: Cavebear on March 18, 2017, 03:53:30 AM
No one ever considers themselves "bigots". They are convinced they are right and their views are correct. Then the majority disagrees, they either decide the majority isn't the majority or that the majority needs to "learn the truth".
I watched a Republican Congressman on TV a couple days ago who said that you can't maintain a civilization with "other people's babies". That was so dumb. He didn't even realize that he was suggesting eugenics.
Lastly, it amazes me when really conservative people bring out the vaguest arguments in their support. When facts fail, they suggest social breakdown. And what it THAT other than "not what they like"?
It works both ways to, when the alt or far left scream about white male privilege, against white guys who probably have gone through life with not a moment of racist or sexist inclination.
Racism exists whatever side of the spectrum people are on.
Quote from: Baruch on March 18, 2017, 09:36:15 AM
Yes, eugenics is coming ... the public isn't ready for it yet. We used to have that policy in the US, the Germans were copying us. And it was, and will be ... bipartisan. National security y'know!
Eugenics IS coming. I saw on a news scroll that 3rd party DNA combinations are bein allowed somewhere. I didn't get the details. The thin line has been crossed somewhere and will spread. Once crossed, it will become routine,
Quote from: Cavebear on March 19, 2017, 01:40:56 AM
Eugenics IS coming. I saw on a news scroll that 3rd party DNA combinations are bein allowed somewhere. I didn't get the details. The thin line has been crossed somewhere and will spread. Once crossed, it will become routine,
Correct ... in England they have even combined sheep DNA with human DNA. They call the result ... voters ;-)
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-444436/Now-scientists-create-sheep-thats-15-human.html ... this was 10 years ago, genetic and other kinds of chimeras are now routine. Since we are "all for privatization" ... corporations and even little Johnny with his chemistry set ... are doing it. I am looking forward to actual and accidental biological warfare.
Quote from: Baruch on March 19, 2017, 08:35:46 AM
Correct ... in England they have even combined sheep DNA with human DNA. They call the result ... voters ;-)
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-444436/Now-scientists-create-sheep-thats-15-human.html ... this was 10 years ago, genetic and other kinds of chimeras are now routine. Since we are "all for privatization" ... corporations and even little Johnny with his chemistry set ... are doing it. I am looking forward to actual and accidental biological warfare.
You are just hopeless sometimes. *sigh*
I report facts (when it suites me) ... and you reject facts (because of who is saying them or because they challenge your prejudices)? So is my old news link ... fake news? Or did you just have supper at Comet Pizza?
Quote from: Baruch on March 21, 2017, 06:55:19 AM
I report facts (when it suites me) ...
Well isn't that suite...
Quote from: Baruch on March 21, 2017, 06:55:19 AM
I report facts (when it suites me) ... and you reject facts (because of who is saying them or because they challenge your prejudices)? So is my old news link ... fake news? Or did you just have supper at Comet Pizza?
If you like humor, I will point out that your first use of "suites" made no sense.
But that's not important (except to you). I don't reject facts. I have been known to change my mind in the face of them (unlike 90% of other people you know). When facts oppose my opinion, I consider them seriously, not rejecting them out of hand.
I check sources. If The Washington Post posts some data from UCLA, I tend to trust it. If some iffy website reports some news from a Russian source, I check it out double and triple. And don't much trust it then.
So you are accusing a dedicated fact-checker of not checking his facts. LOL!
Name a single specific fact I've mentioned that you think I've gotten wrong.
You just changed the subject, of Svengali Bear. You were challenging my facts, not I challenging yours. But they have to be facts, not editorials.
Well, the real quick solution for the christofascists to quit being called bigots is to quit being bigots.
Of course, that's too obvious for them to grasp. And it requires them to grow the fuck up and take responsibility for their words and actions.
Quote from: Baruch on March 22, 2017, 07:48:35 PM
You just changed the subject, of Svengali Bear. You were challenging my facts, not I challenging yours. But they have to be facts, not editorials.
Well, no actually I didn't. you are just saying that hoping other people will assume you are correct. I did not change the subject, challenge your facts (there were none offerred in your post), nor did I make an editorial.
Your continued habit of falsifying the content of others' post is offensive.
Quote from: Cavebear on March 24, 2017, 03:27:46 AM
Well, no actually I didn't. you are just saying that hoping other people will assume you are correct. I did not change the subject, challenge your facts (there were none offerred in your post), nor did I make an editorial.
Your continued habit of falsifying the content of others' post is offensive.
If I misunderstand a post .. then I apologize. But I will misspell ... but consider it a Freudian slip ... I am not a grammar Nazi of course.
Quote from: trdsf on March 24, 2017, 12:14:00 AM
Well, the real quick solution for the christofascists to quit being called bigots is to quit being bigots.
This is exactly the way I see it. I can allow for people's misunderstanding of themselves. I've done a lot of that myself over the years, But when claims about self so clearly contradict behavior of self that it elicits the mocking laughter of others, continuing the contradiction raises denial to the level of the absurd.
Quote from: trdsf on March 24, 2017, 12:14:00 AM
Of course, that's too obvious for them to grasp. And it requires them to grow the fuck up and take responsibility for their words and actions.
This is the mysterious part. It's so obvious that one shouldn't have to search to see it.
Quote from: SGOS on March 24, 2017, 08:24:45 AM
This is exactly the way I see it. I can allow for people's misunderstanding of themselves. I've done a lot of that myself over the years, But when claims about self so clearly contradict behavior of self that it elicits the mocking laughter of others, continuing the contradiction raises denial to the level of the absurd.
This is the mysterious part. It's so obvious that one shouldn't have to search to see it.
I'm going to agree that if you don't want to be called a "bigot", you should probably stop being one.