I am going through one of my worries about hell again. What do you guys think are truly the odds that the Howard Storm story is actually true? How likely is it that he actually saw hell?
Here is a link to his story for those who are not aware of it.
https://youtu.be/CwBEerA4_uY
I am so worried about this I have lost sleep over it because I am scared that I and my loved ones may end up in hell forever. What can I do? I can't get this video out of my head :-( Would you say it is less than a 5% chance that he actually saw hell assuming he is not intentionally lying and being as sincere as he can?
The human brain does all sorts of odd things when it's deprived of oxygen. These effects are well documented.
Somewhere between slim and nill.
Also, in your first four posts, you've made 3 threads.
How about making theone you are allowed to, when under 10: How's about an introduction there mate?
This is an anecdotal story. It cannot be verified, and offers no actual evidence to support the existence of Heaven or Hell. Furthermore, there is no evidence to support he actually believes his own claim than there is evidence that he is simply lying. There is no more evidence for the truth of his claim than for claims by those who say they have been abducted by aliens. This sort of thing makes for great Utube videos that get lots of hits, but like other similar claims about unsupported things, it falls in the category of "bunk". You don't believe people get abducted by aliens do you? You don't just up and believe someone remembers a past life he lived 200 years ago. Well, maybe you do. In that case you need to get it together if for no other reason than to stop tormenting yourself with pointless concerns about things no one actually knows, or the ravings of self-centered publicity whores who make absurd claims and are looking to be the center of attention.
I created a thread about why I'm no longer afraid of Hell. To put it simply, it makes no sense.
http://atheistforums.com/index.php?topic=10288.msg1137224#msg1137224
People make their own heaven and their own hell. Heaven and Hell aren't some time in the future, they are right here, right now. Are you in Heaven? Good for you! Are you in Hell? You need to do something about that!
Have you ever had a dream? It's mostly like that, only its a dream.....hello?
One of this guy's threads consists solely of a creationist link. What are the odds that this thread is genuine? :headscratch:
Zero.
If I owned Texas and Hell, I'd rent out Texas and live in Hell.
Eh, if there is a hell then that's where Einstein and Sagan are. I know who I'd rather hang out with. :lol:
Quote from: Hijiri Byakuren on December 18, 2016, 10:31:57 PM
Eh, if there is a hell then that's where Einstein and Sagan are. I know who I'd rather hang out with. :lol:
Out of ice cream??!! That, alone, is a sin enough to send you straight to hell (or Texas)!!
H E double dirty Q-tips.. Available in your grocers freezer.
Most charlatans provide sincerity for the purpose of the dollar sign.
Quote from: Murat_Devekusu on December 18, 2016, 04:51:09 PM
I am going through one of my worries about hell again. What do you guys think are truly the odds that the Howard Storm story is actually true? How likely is it that he actually saw hell?
Here is a link to his story for those who are not aware of it.
https://youtu.be/CwBEerA4_uY
I am so worried about this I have lost sleep over it because I am scared that I and my loved ones may end up in hell forever. What can I do? I can't get this video out of my head :-( Would you say it is less than a 5% chance that he actually saw hell assuming he is not intentionally lying and being as sincere as he can?
[mod]If you make one more thread without investing in to it with discussion, you will be banned for trolling and spam.
This is your first and last warning.[/mod]
Quote from: Johan on December 18, 2016, 10:28:25 PM
If I owned Texas and Hell, I'd rent out Texas and live in Hell.
(http://www.joshuanhook.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/4a3c3e9ddb89babe1ae32689dd958171.jpg)
Quote from: Murat_Devekusu on December 18, 2016, 04:51:09 PM
I am going through one of my worries about hell again. What do you guys think are truly the odds that the Howard Storm story is actually true? How likely is it that he actually saw hell?
Here is a link to his story for those who are not aware of it.
https://youtu.be/CwBEerA4_uY
I am so worried about this I have lost sleep over it because I am scared that I and my loved ones may end up in hell forever. What can I do? I can't get this video out of my head :-( Would you say it is less than a 5% chance that he actually saw hell assuming he is not intentionally lying and being as sincere as he can?
its a crock of poop. The only thing judging humans is humans.
we all go back into the lego bin. no big deal.
Old news, idiot Storm is a flip-flopper.
Quote from: Murat_Devekusu on December 18, 2016, 04:51:09 PM
I am going through one of my worries about hell again. What do you guys think are truly the odds that the Howard Storm story is actually true? How likely is it that he actually saw hell?
Here is a link to his story for those who are not aware of it.
I am so worried about this I have lost sleep over it because I am scared that I and my loved ones may end up in hell forever. What can I do? I can't get this video out of my head :-( Would you say it is less than a 5% chance that he actually saw hell assuming he is not intentionally lying and being as sincere as he can?
There is next to zero chance that this is true.
The Hindu gods and their hell, Naraka, that's the one that should be keeping you up at night.
Seriously, the fact that you would consider the story of a person who's brain is going through trauma induced hallucination, as being credible does not bode well for you critical thinking skills.
But if you are truly this indoctrinated, then I feel bad for you.
Chthulu awaits your soul - for His dining pleasure!
(https://img1.etsystatic.com/101/0/11780540/il_340x270.844336579_hf87.jpg)
(http://i1.wp.com/cdn.bgr.com/2016/03/trump-google-deep-dream.png?w=625)
The odd flips and flops of one uncertain person has nothing to do with reality. Decide for yourself. And if you choose religion (any of them) throw yourself into a well because that is the fastest way to see if there is an afterlife. LOL!
Hell in the Bible is much scarier than the traditional depiction of it. It is the lake of fire in Revelation, the place where the fire is hotter than a thousand fires, and where the "worm dies not". The demons called "legion" were begging Jesus not the send them out into the "abyss", and they seemed very afraid. They knew what hell was. I have no doubt that Howard Storm could have been given a preview of hell, just as some have been given glimpses of heaven. To dismiss these things as being short of oxygen is infantile and ignorant. We are also spiritual creatures, a nature given us by the same One who created our bodies. It is natural that at times we will experience communications from the Deity. Going to Hell became possible when Adam ate the forbidden fruit, disconnecting from God. The purpose of Christ was to provide escape from Hell, and so Heaven is reconnection to God.
Quote from: godmessenger on January 18, 2017, 11:15:54 PM
Hell in the Bible is much scarier than the traditional depiction of it.
Can't be any worse than the Soul Cairn from TES V. Man that place was depressing.
Quote from: godmessenger on January 18, 2017, 11:15:54 PM
Hell in the Bible is much scarier than the traditional depiction of it. It is the lake of fire in Revelation, the place where the fire is hotter than a thousand fires, and where the "worm dies not". The demons called "legion" were begging Jesus not the send them out into the "abyss", and they seemed very afraid. They knew what hell was. I have no doubt that Howard Storm could have been given a preview of hell, just as some have been given glimpses of heaven. To dismiss these things as being short of oxygen is infantile and ignorant. We are also spiritual creatures, a nature given us by the same One who created our bodies. It is natural that at times we will experience communications from the Deity. Going to Hell became possible when Adam ate the forbidden fruit, disconnecting from God. The purpose of Christ was to provide escape from Hell, and so Heaven is reconnection to God.
For you to say that we are infantile and ignorant just before insinuating that Adam was an actually real person is quite ironic. Come back when you've grown a brain. I have no interests in arguing with people with the minds of five-year-olds.
Quote from: godmessenger on January 18, 2017, 11:15:54 PMthe fire is hotter than a thousand fires
Now there's an interesting unit of measurement.
"How hot is that fire?"
"I dunno..maybe a hundred fires hot. On second thought, a thousand."
Move over metric system, we have a contender!
Quoteand where the "worm dies not". The demons called "legion" were begging Jesus not the send them out into the "abyss", and they seemed very afraid. They knew what hell was. I have no doubt that Howard Storm could have been given a preview of hell, just as some have been given glimpses of heaven. To dismiss these things as being short of oxygen is infantile and ignorant.
Well, I thought hell was mythological fiction before but if you make it sound super bad and you talk like you're super convinced this is legit, it seems really compelling. I might have to go convert now. Does that technique actually work on many people? Or any people?
QuoteGoing to Hell became possible when Adam ate the forbidden fruit, disconnecting from God.
Even assuming the story is true, the alternative would be eternal slavery. Practically anything would be a step up from that. And of course, God is the real screw-up in this story since, yanno, omniscience.
godmessenger - Dante should have put this sign over the entry to Hell ... "Loose your stereotypes, ye who enter here"
PS ... I am a demigod myself, and I don't remember hiring any Western Union guys ... are you sure you work for me? ;-))
Quote from: godmessenger on January 18, 2017, 11:15:54 PM
Hell in the Bible is much scarier than the traditional depiction of it. It is the lake of fire in Revelation, the place where the fire is hotter than a thousand fires, and where the "worm dies not". The demons called "legion" were begging Jesus not the send them out into the "abyss", and they seemed very afraid. They knew what hell was. I have no doubt that Howard Storm could have been given a preview of hell, just as some have been given glimpses of heaven. To dismiss these things as being short of oxygen is infantile and ignorant. We are also spiritual creatures, a nature given us by the same One who created our bodies. It is natural that at times we will experience communications from the Deity. Going to Hell became possible when Adam ate the forbidden fruit, disconnecting from God. The purpose of Christ was to provide escape from Hell, and so Heaven is reconnection to God.
So, what -
one guy eats a fruit that his God didn't want him to eat, and
forever after everyone is doomed to spend eternity being tortured in an infinite fire umless they believe the unbelievable - but
God is love?
How can
anyone be so
STUPID!? And then come here and expect us to be just as
STUPID!?
And yet another drive by.
Quote from: Johan on December 18, 2016, 10:28:25 PM
If I owned Texas and Hell, I'd rent out Texas and live in Hell.
See you in Hell.
Well Well, the whole thing started because some broad was hungry for fresh fruit and if you don't believe it you're most certainly going to burn forever and ever and ever and ever x1000.. This is why we should be allowed to sumarily execute women for entering the produce section of grocery stores. After all, just looking at this image will tempt you beyond all reason. Yup, definitely sinful thoughts swirling around in my head.. Forgive me father for I am a sinner. (http://i1160.photobucket.com/albums/q490/atheola/drprem.jpg)
HEY! STOP THAT or you'll go blind!
Quote from: AllPurposeAtheist on January 20, 2017, 10:22:45 AM
Well Well, the whole thing started because some broad was hungry for fresh fruit and if you don't believe it you're most certainly going to burn forever and ever and ever and ever x1000.. This is why we should be allowed to sumarily execute women for entering the produce section of grocery stores. After all, just looking at this image will tempt you beyond all reason. Yup, definitely sinful thoughts swirling around in my head.. Forgive me father for I am a sinner. (http://i1160.photobucket.com/albums/q490/atheola/drprem.jpg)
HEY! STOP THAT or you'll go blind!
Remember, not only blind but hair will grow on your hand.
Quote from: AllPurposeAtheist on January 20, 2017, 10:22:45 AM
Well Well, the whole thing started because some broad was hungry for fresh fruit and if you don't believe it you're most certainly going to burn forever and ever and ever and ever x1000..
Except that, according to the Bible, in Deuteronomy 24:16, God doesn't blame us for what Adam did:
QuoteThe fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.
Oh, wait, the Bible also says this in Deuteronomy 5:9:
QuoteThou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God [am] a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth [generation] of them that hate me,
But even that's not forever [and ever]! 3 or 4 generations, and yet
we're all born under original sin!?
I'm just not convinced...
Quote from: Unbeliever on January 20, 2017, 04:02:08 PM
Except that, according to the Bible, in Deuteronomy 24:16, God doesn't blame us for what Adam did:
Oh, wait, the Bible also says this in Deuteronomy 5:9:
But even that's not forever [and ever]! 3 or 4 generations, and yet we're all born under original sin!?
I'm just not convinced...
Thus the belief that there was the original Deuteronomy, and the revision of Deuteronomy:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Deuteronomy
The original in late 7th century BCE, the revision in the late 6th century BCE. The most important part in rabbinic Judaism, being Deut 6:4.
My personal experience is that after being indoctrinated I still fear hell. I know hell is not real but the evil that religion is has drilled it in to me and now I can't shake it. I share your pain in that regard but I know that the bible is 100% bull shit and not real. Why should I trust people from the middle east as being the authority on religion? How does one determine what is the true religion I mean there are so many of them!
Quote from: doorknob on January 22, 2017, 06:25:14 AM
My personal experience is that after being indoctrinated I still fear hell. I know hell is not real but the evil that religion is has drilled it in to me and now I can't shake it. I share your pain in that regard but I know that the bible is 100% bull shit and not real. Why should I trust people from the middle east as being the authority on religion? How does one determine what is the true religion I mean there are so many of them!
I am sorry to hear that you still fear hell. I suppose it is like when a tune is stuck in your head and you can't stop playing it over and over even tho it is driving you nuts. I don't know what to say, really. I eventually lose that tune by ignoring it by becoming so absorbed in some task or other. Hell is a bit stronger than a tune, I suppose. :)
Maybe you dispel your fear by doing research on hell. I don't mean read a few internet blogs or pages. I mean reading books by the dozen; keep notes--make it a personal homework assignment. That way you will 'know' where the various types of hell come from, which religions say what about it. In that way, you will rub your nose in the fact that hell is a story--well, many stories all contorted into what christians call hell; and even each sect within christianity has a different hell. Maybe something like that would work.
Quote from: godmessenger on January 18, 2017, 11:15:54 PM
We are also spiritual creatures,
Bullshit, we are superstitious creatures. Thats why we talk to our cars, pretend the possessions of our ancestors have special powers, avoid particular "curses", consult the starts, pierce our bodies and all kinds of assorted whack-a-doddlery. The invention of the gods is pretty well chronicled, try reading a real book twit.
Quote from: doorknob on January 22, 2017, 06:25:14 AM
My personal experience is that after being indoctrinated I still fear hell. I know hell is not real but the evil that religion is has drilled it in to me and now I can't shake it. I share your pain in that regard but I know that the bible is 100% bull shit and not real. Why should I trust people from the middle east as being the authority on religion? How does one determine what is the true religion I mean there are so many of them!
Because it is so dry there, and caring for mixed flocks of goats and sheep, and living in tents (bedouin) makes them experts on G-d ;-) But in early cities, you had the temple prostitutes of Ishtar ;-))
Quote from: aitm on January 22, 2017, 09:21:39 AM
Bullshit, we are superstitious creatures. Thats why we talk to our cars, pretend the possessions of our ancestors have special powers, avoid particular "curses", consult the starts, pierce our bodies and all kinds of assorted whack-a-doddlery. The invention of the gods is pretty well chronicled, try reading a real book twit.
I keep my black cat on my good side, just in case ;-))
Quote from: aitm on January 22, 2017, 09:21:39 AM
Bullshit, we are superstitious creatures. Thats why we talk to our cars, pretend the possessions of our ancestors have special powers, avoid particular "curses", consult the starts, pierce our bodies and all kinds of assorted whack-a-doddlery. The invention of the gods is pretty well chronicled, try reading a real book twit.
Speak for yourself, doggie-friend (I'm a cat type myself). I have no superstition, don't talk to my car, attend my ancestors (OK Mom's ashes are on a bookshelf and I'm waiting to be the last living child so I can dump them in the garden without annoying anyone)... Yeah, I know you were speaking to someoe else, but I got this great response in my fingertips... LOL!
Just don't dump Mom in the cat box, it is disrespectful ;-))
Quote from: Baruch on January 31, 2017, 07:08:51 PM
Just don't dump Mom in the cat box, it is disrespectful ;-))
Mom loved cats. And she isn't around to care.
Seriously, at SOME point, no one cares anymore. But what is that point? My Will says spread me on the garden.
Quote from: Cavebear on February 05, 2017, 02:02:16 PM
Mom loved cats. And she isn't around to care.
Seriously, at SOME point, no one cares anymore. But what is that point? My Will says spread me on the garden.
It is you, or is it peat moss ... well if your name isn't Pete ...
Quote from: Baruch on February 05, 2017, 02:26:56 PM
It is you, or is it peat moss ... well if your name isn't Pete ...
Cremation is simply more efficient. Gets the nutrients back in the ground faster than box burials designed to prevent it. Not like I'll need my body after my mind stops.
I seem to recall reading somewhere that the concept of hell, as the Christians have used it, comes from Zoroastrianism.
Here's a link about it:
Hell-On-Line (http://www.hell-on-line.org/AboutZOR.html)
Quote from: Unbeliever on February 11, 2017, 05:04:22 PM
I seem to recall reading somewhere that the concept of hell, as the Christians have used it, comes from Zoroastrianism.
Here's a link about it:
Hell-On-Line (http://www.hell-on-line.org/AboutZOR.html)
Yes, but multiple origins. I have a beautiful full color reproduction of the Egyptian Book of the Dead. The Greco-Romans, Egyptians, Babylonians etc. The most recent non-Abrahamic influence that helped create the Abrahamic religions, came via Zoroastrianism. Zoroaster was a bit like an early Persian version of Buddha. It isn't clear when Zoroaster lived (two major theories), or exactly when the Buddha lived (two major theories), but there was definitely a Zoroastrian cult in the midst of Persian polytheism in 500 BCE ... and Buddhism in the midst of Hindu polytheism in 300 BCE. Zoroastrianism had a direct impact on Islam, thru Persian influence in S Arabia ... and indirectly thru Jewish-Christian influence in N Arabia and Ethiopia. Zoroastrianism barely survived the Muslim conquest, though the Byzantines held up a bit better. Language matters .. Arabic conquest did best, and held on longest, where the local language was already Afro-Semitic. The major breach in the Caliphate occurred precisely because of the non-Semitic Persians and Indians ... and push back from the non-Semitic Europeans in Spain and the Balkans. The advent of the Turks and Mongols acted as wild cards.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell also The Origin of Satan: How Christians Demonized Jews, Pagans, and Heretics by Elaine Pagels.
I was just reading the Aeneid by Virgil ... where Aeneas enters Hades thru the caves of the Cumean Sybil, outside modern Naples. This is a pretty universal concept ... an Elysium for good people, is relatively less common.
As I think of it: The earliest ideas of Hell probably came from burials. You went underground when you were dead. Originally, that would have been rather for sanitary reasons, then neutral, just "belowground". Eventually, ideas developed that there was some sort of judgements assigned to the dead. Everyone went belowground.
Then, some deity had to be in charge of belowground. Hence, Nergal, Hades, Hel, and Enma. As theisms were organized among the living, punishments were assigned to bad dead people (probably those from conquored people and losing internal political factions. The Egyptians had detailed ways of being guided through belowground to escape punishment for offending the deities (as surely all must have done at some point).
As the deities became one, so did the afterlife consequences. But a few theisms allowed for escape from belowground. Heaven was created...
After that, belowground was the place of only the truly evil. If you followed all the rules, you didn't go belowground even if your body did. Hence the soul...
The soul had no weight, and could escape belowground. What happens to beins with no weight? It floats, of course. Therefore good people went "up". Well, where else was there?
I could go on about what ancient people might have thought, but the point is to suggest how early ideas of hell and heaven started.
Just some speculation...