One of the reasons that I had left the church was that I had been rejected by them and I felt like they no longer supported the lifestyle that I had lived. I felt unaccepted and I was once sincere but now it's like whatever. I don't really care anymore. A part of me wishes that I had never even been a part of the church in the first place, but then it's like what is the use of looking back? I just hate them so much. I felt like they never accepted me and that the church kids my age were such jerks. I never had a positive experience with them so I left. I wouldn't go back if they begged me to or even invited me to do so. Heck no. I am done with them forever. I am here to vent because I wanted to get this off my chest. It had bothered me for a few years already and I have already come to the conclusion that it is now time to let it all go once and for all.
I would always keep saying to myself that the Christians I have met were never there for me and I find that nonchristians are more "Christian" than they are. I felt that Christians did not accept me at all and I would just cry and get all upset because I don't know. I guess some things were worth more to me than others or they had played a role in my life but now it's like whatever. I have not been able to let go of this so I figured might as well just post this on here just to get it all out so that I don't have to ever worry about this again. It is just long overdue.
Christianity is also one of the reasons why I got depressed in the first place. Just by following a religion like that can lead to a lot of anger, frustration, depression, and stress. I honestly am better off without it. I just don't like it. It hurt me. I felt like I was going to die.
I supported Christianity, because I married into it. They failed to support my family when we needed it most. Fortunately I also had one foot in the Judaism ... and that carried me forward for a few more years. I am still a spiritual guy though, I just don't need the institutions and the social clubs.
I hope you can get past your anger, and find a better situation for yourself. We all need belonging, but you haven't found the right kind yet. Keep looking, the right kind for you might be secular, associating with people who like the same things you like. That is how voluntary society works.
I understand your frustration. For me, the church was my favorite place to be when I was a teenager. But after my parents forced me to go to a different church, then another, then another, I lost that love for going to church. While the first church felt like home, the environments of the other churches were much less inviting. The people weren't as kind, there wasn't as much opportunity to get involved, and any connections I built with other people were always short-term. After a while, church just became a chore. I went to church, I ate lunch, and I spent the rest of my day at work. I was getting absolutely nothing out of it.
But most importantly, the reason I stopped going to church was because of God. Over the years of church hopping, it became painfully obvious that God either didn't exist or he wasn't who I thought he was. He did not have my best interests in mind. He did not answer my prayers. I held on to my faith for as long as I could, because I felt that my relationship with God was the most important thing to me. But over time, I grew tired of God failing me time and time again. I decided that if God doesn't give a fuck about me, then I shouldn't give a fuck about him.
After my faith died, my eyes were opened, and I was able to see flaws in the Christian religion and the Bible that should have been obvious to me before. But because I was indoctrinated from a young age, I had faith goggles on that shaped the way I could think. Now, the only way to get me to return to Christianity is to take away my intelligence.
I was forced as a child to go to church and always thought it was odd and didn't like it even though I tried very hard because it was what was expected of me. I tried a few different churches as an adult because I still thought it was the right thing to do. Every time I went to a new church the women were cold, maybe because I didn't have a man with me? Very hypocritical in my opinion. My frustrations with religion led me on a journey lasting many years. Reading "Dance of the Dissident Daughter" by Sue Monk Kidd was pivotal for me. I went through a phase of "spirituality". Some very painful events in my personal life eventually left me with no other conclusion than to be Atheist.
Maturation kills our inner child. Religious adults have managed to remain immature ... but then the end result of maturity is death.
"What made you leave the church?" Damned SWAT team.
All churches have doors. When I visit a church, such as some tourist site like Westminster Abbey, eventually I have to leave because I have elsewhere to go. And sometimes churches close for the day. I mean, I don't live there, so I have no reason to stay.
Can't really put it down to a specific thing. It was really more of a combination of things. Being gay, the problem of hell, the problem of evil, the absolute absence of evidence, and several other things all came together until I was eventually the atheist fuck you see here today.
To be honest, I never really had a bad church experience: the churches I went to as a kid were of the Methodist and Lutheran "let's just be really chill about this whole thing" variety.
I read the babble. Figured only old women, retards, terminally ill and the addicts could buy into that bullshit nonsense....and so far it seems to be the picture.
I left the church because the sermon was over and they started ushering people out the doors.
Now the reasons I didn't come back are little more interesting. Basically, I found better things to do with my time than to sit through a few hours every week of someone asserting the historical truth of a book featuring a talking donkey.
Also, someone telling me what life, the universe, and everything is like despite not actually knowing any of that stuff himself but having strong faith in the veracity of a possibly historical story of guy who might have existed who allegedly heard voices - presumably, the voices of angels - who told him that stuff.
I never really belonged to any church and never wanted to. There was a short period of my life I thought I was missing out on something or going there would somehow magically change who I am for the better, but instead I found it dull and very unrealistic and the last donation I made when they passed the plate was an old snot rag. It's not easy to leave somewhere you never really was to begin with.
Never was in a church, a belief system, or any eastern reincarnation idea. Hope I am not missing a possibility of non-belief here.
While I was growing up I was forced to go to church. My dad even told me that if I didn't go I couldn't live in the house anymore (I still don't know if he really meant that, or what mom would have done). When I was a teenager I really tried to be a Christian. I used to play drums for a praise band every week. I remember being in services and seeing everyone else with their arms in the air, with an expression of near bliss on their faces. I would try very hard to experience that. I would stand there every week praying and asking God to just let me feel him the way everyone else seemed to. I used to even pray for that after I went home.
For a while I did manage to convince myself that I did understand and that I was a good Christian. I even thought for a while that I would become a pastor. When I left home and went to college I met, for the first time in my life, a person who openly claimed God and Jesus weren't real. What an experience! Like telling a bird that it's never flown, but that it's been dreaming its whole life. I freaked. I couldn't keep up with my studies because I didn't know that I needed to study hard! I thought that if I was supposed to do well in class then God would give me the way. I was so brainwashed that I didn't realize I needed to put forth any effort of my own. Anyway, I eventually decided that I wanted to spend my life learning and studying. It took a while but I finally quit going to church. I've since graduated from college, and am currently working on a Masters of law and a Juris Doctor. It's amazing what a person can do when they stop waiting for some unseen force to do things for them.
I well it was clear I didn't belong in the church but that's not the reason I left. The reason I left was that I just couldn't lie to myself anymore. Some where inside I knew it was all a lie but I was forced into it by my parents.
Now that I'm an adult I'm free to reject Christianity all I want.
Btw Since then, I've found a boat load of reason not to believe in god. Just stick around.
I had what I took to be a profound conversion experience and left Roman Catholicism for Wicca for about 20 years, and then had a profound de-conversion experience, so to speak, when it just occurred to me that you know everything seems to operate just fine without divine intervention. The Universe (or multiverse) is spectacularly self-explanatory and self-contained, and the full majesty of reality hit me.
There is no single reason I left. If I had to narrow it down to a single reason I would say that it was because my mind was just too analytical to hold magical beliefs for an entire lifetime. But there were a ton of little things that just didn't add up.
One of the big ones was a flyer which circulated for a while saying that Proctor and Gamble had a new logo which was the mark of the beast. They were in league with the devil. I looked at the logo. I didn't see it. I had clearly seen it on the flyer, so I wanted another look. I went to the church bulletin board and I couldn't find it. So I asked my friend where it was. Being the pastor's son he was in a unique position to tell me the actual truth, that Proctor and Gamble had threatened to sue the church if they kept circulating that flyer.
That was difficult to process. The week before the church had been telling me that Proctor and Gamble WAS in league with the devil. It was a FACT. The next week they were no longer telling me that. Why? Because lawyers threatened to sue them. They were fighting against the devil, the devil threatened to take their money away, so they stopped fighting? It didn't make any sense whatsoever. Either they WERE fighting the devil and they should continue to do so, regardless the consequence, or they had lied to me. Either way, these were not holy people. They could not be. By the beliefs they had put into my head themselves these people were hypocrites, being either liars or more in love with money than God.
Of course, my believer brain didn't process that all out at once. Hell, I didn't let myself think about it at all. But it sat in the back of my head for a year or two, chewing away at my faith that I was right, that the people I had chosen to follow were right. I would say that was a big reason I left and not the reason at all. I didn't leave because of that, but I was taught to be on the lookout for false prophets, so when the false prophet was my church I couldn't just dismiss it even if I had wanted to. So that one thing made me think more and question more. I didn't just dismiss the smaller things outright. It made me subconsciously suspicious of my own church and it was the greatest thing they ever put in my head.
As a teenager in high school I was an outcast/pariah, yet quite the good student/individual as well. I merely joined the church as a means to fit in at least somewhere. It did not take too long for my logical mind to leave such an oppressive environment, however, because it quickly became all too apparent that the congregation was only accepting of me if I completely changed myself to adhere to their standards of what they thought I should be. It was easy enough to leave such a hostile place.
Church bored me and I could not relate. I quit going regularly as a teenager, but remained a Christian, although I was skeptical of the claims. If I would have found it meaningful, it probably would not have bored me. And when I say "bored" I can not overstate that. Sometimes I was so bored and disconnected from anything meaningful in church, I would have the urge to scream. I didn't of course. That would have terrified the rest of the congregation, and they would have labeled me a crazy person, but I really wanted to scream, just to relieve the tension.
Sometimes when I'm in my car, I will tune to a radio station that has some preacher ranting and raving. I actually pay attention, but only to listen to the nonsense, and since I'm by myself, I can yell out, "Amen, Brother," or "Praise Jesus," without looking foolish, unless I'm at a stop light and the guy next to me catches me, which I'm pretty good at avoiding.
Widdershins ... all religion is "cultus" but some of them are "cult". A subtle difference.
Quote from: Baruch on February 22, 2017, 12:49:59 PM
Widdershins ... all religion is "cultus" but some of them are "cult". A subtle difference.
I often refer to my old Pentecostal church as being "a compound away from being a cult."
I was never in a church. Parents took me to services until I was old enough to stay home, but we were always guests rather than bonafied "members."
I am always saddened, but not surprised, when children forced into theistic beliefs rebel. It causes such grief and difficulty for some. I am glad I was not so forced. My atheism is rather more calm and steady.
Quote from: HumanBN on February 20, 2017, 09:53:51 PM
While I was growing up I was forced to go to church. My dad even told me that if I didn't go I couldn't live in the house anymore (I still don't know if he really meant that, or what mom would have done). When I was a teenager I really tried to be a Christian. I used to play drums for a praise band every week. I remember being in services and seeing everyone else with their arms in the air, with an expression of near bliss on their faces. I would try very hard to experience that. I would stand there every week praying and asking God to just let me feel him the way everyone else seemed to. I used to even pray for that after I went home.
For a while I did manage to convince myself that I did understand and that I was a good Christian. I even thought for a while that I would become a pastor. When I left home and went to college I met, for the first time in my life, a person who openly claimed God and Jesus weren't real. What an experience! Like telling a bird that it's never flown, but that it's been dreaming its whole life. I freaked. I couldn't keep up with my studies because I didn't know that I needed to study hard! I thought that if I was supposed to do well in class then God would give me the way. I was so brainwashed that I didn't realize I needed to put forth any effort of my own. Anyway, I eventually decided that I wanted to spend my life learning and studying. It took a while but I finally quit going to church. I've since graduated from college, and am currently working on a Masters of law and a Juris Doctor. It's amazing what a person can do when they stop waiting for some unseen force to do things for them.
Christianity teaches that every good thing comes from God, and every bad thing is our fault. What a way to live, to think that we cannot take credit for any of the good things we do. God gets all the glory, and we get all the blame.
Quote from: Baruch on February 22, 2017, 12:49:59 PM
Widdershins ... all religion is "cultus" but some of them are "cult". A subtle difference.
Yeah, not a very big or very significant way, though.
Quote from: Blackleaf on February 23, 2017, 11:20:23 PM
Christianity teaches that every good thing comes from God, and every bad thing is our fault. What a way to live, to think that we cannot take credit for any of the good things we do. God gets all the glory, and we get all the blame.
That's a lot like internalizing the profits while externalizing the costs.
Quote from: HumanBN on February 20, 2017, 09:53:51 PM
I remember being in services and seeing everyone else with their arms in the air, with an expression of near bliss on their faces. I would try very hard to experience that. I would stand there every week praying and asking God to just let me feel him the way everyone else seemed to. I used to even pray for that after I went home.
Back in the 70s at the university, there was a Christian group of hippies that lived on a commune nearby. They used to come to the University, and the leader of the group would preach hell, fire, and brimstone in the commons area, while the good looking hippie babes would walk about, palms raised to the heavens, with that blissful look of peace. They were an interesting oddity and students would hang out and watch them to their thing. We used to call them Jesus Freaks, a term of endearment for hippies "gone Christian."
After I graduated, I heard that group had been broken up and the leader arrested. I'm not sure of the charges, but it had something to do with pimping out the babes to get new members to join the cult. Oh well. I suppose that blissful look of peace, was really a blissful look of "piece." The babes looked happy, anyway.
Are you disapproving as a Puritan, or jealous for not getting more babes?
Quote from: SGOS on February 25, 2017, 09:29:07 AM
The babes looked happy, anyway.
It's one thing to
look happy, quite another thing to actually
be happy.
Why did I leave "the church"?
I simply read the Bible, the whole Bible, and that was enough to convince me it was NOT the word of any God.
Quote from: Unbeliever on February 25, 2017, 03:30:43 PM
Why did I leave "the church"?
I simply read the Bible, the whole Bible, and that was enough to convince me it was NOT the word of any God.
Most Christians never read the whole Bible ;-( At one time they weren't allowed to read the Bible. At earlier times they weren't even able to read. Our ancestors went thru tremendous struggle to be able to read and to read the Bible ... and it is a shame if literate Christians (most of them are literate now) don't avail themselves of it. Dinky Bible study classes in Church are child like in comparison ... but that is partly because the Church wants to control what you are paying attention to in the Bible (watch out for gay people) or are wanting to control how you read it, what conclusions you draw. And in your case, we can see why. What makes you different isn't just that you read the whole Bible, but that you have free thinking. That is what is threatening to society, even to Madison Ave.
Quote from: Baruch on February 25, 2017, 04:28:19 PM
Most Christians never read the whole Bible ;-( At one time they weren't allowed to read the Bible. At earlier times they weren't even able to read. Our ancestors went thru tremendous struggle to be able to read and to read the Bible ... and it is a shame if literate Christians (most of them are literate now) don't avail themselves of it. Dinky Bible study classes in Church are child like in comparison ... but that is partly because the Church wasn't to control what you are paying attention to in the Bible (watch out for gay people) or are wanting to control how you read it, what conclusions you draw. And in your case, we can see why. What makes you different isn't just that you read the whole Bible, but that you have free thinking. That is what is threatening to society, even to Madison Ave.
Not only are most Christians literate now, and have a plethora of English translations/transliterations available for purchase, but there are countless free resources ONLINE for them to use. The only excuse Christians have for being ignorant of the Bible is their laziness. After all, why should they find it important to actually study the book they build their entire lives and ethical code around?
Quote from: Baruch on February 25, 2017, 04:28:19 PM
Most Christians never read the whole Bible ;-( At one time they weren't allowed to read the Bible. At earlier times they weren't even able to read. Our ancestors went thru tremendous struggle to be able to read and to read the Bible ... and it is a shame if literate Christians (most of them are literate now) don't avail themselves of it. Dinky Bible study classes in Church are child like in comparison ... but that is partly because the Church wants to control what you are paying attention to in the Bible (watch out for gay people) or are wanting to control how you read it, what conclusions you draw. And in your case, we can see why. What makes you different isn't just that you read the whole Bible, but that you have free thinking. That is what is threatening to society, even to Madison Ave.
I'm surprised you even admit to that, since it demonstrates that not only is there no evidence for a deity in the bible (and by association, other religious texts) but that even believers had no basis for their beliefs other than the local loudest salesman of the text.
Quote from: hereweare1 on November 25, 2016, 03:53:02 PM
I felt like I was going to die.
You are going to die. Try not to worry about it.
Quote from: Jason78 on February 26, 2017, 10:32:58 AM
You are going to die. Try not to worry about it.
Yeah, it's not IF it's when. I've left instructions for my ashes to be scattered on my garden. If anyone wants my gold fillings, they better be at the event. LOL!
Quote from: Unbeliever on February 25, 2017, 03:13:48 PM
It's one thing to look happy, quite another thing to actually be happy.
I assume that at least one woman wasn't happy. To bring pimping charges against the leader would have required at least one woman to come forward.
I had a friend who worked for the Forest Service back during those years, who had a vague interest in Christianity, but he didn't talk about it all that much. One day, his brother showed up with a Volkswagen Van and a mixed group of hippy types, both male and female. It was part of a larger group of Jesus Freaks who had another commune some place in Oregon, and he quit his job and left with them. He didn't officially quit, he just didn't show up for work on Monday. He did the Jesus thing of leaving his world possessions behind, including his paycheck and his car. He told me I could have his car, although I didn't take him up on it, as it would mean transferring of title, and you can't just give away a car without transferring title, even if it's for religious reasons.
Before he left, he explained that the group had devoted their lives to Jesus, and then free and uncommitted sex in in the group was part of the lifestyle. He was pleased with the idea of lots of sex. That was his expectation, probably played up by his brother, although from my experience, sex is seldom "free or uncommitted", at least most of the time.
I never heard from again, so I don't know how it all worked out. A coworker of his did call me asking if I knew where he was so they could send him his final paycheck, but I couldn't help. His coworker was also a confirmed and well known fundamentalist around town, and when I told him Ray had left with his brother to become a Christian, it was met with approval, and the rest of the conversation was about how the coworker hoped that Ray had found one of the Pentecostal religions, which was apparently the only firm foundation on which to build a solid commitment to Christianity.
I never knew what happened to his paycheck or his car. His car sat in the parking lot of the ranger station for a month or so, and then disappeared. Maybe he came back and got it. I don't know.
Quote from: SGOS on February 26, 2017, 10:57:58 AM
I assume that at least one woman wasn't happy. To bring pimping charges against the leader would have required at least one woman to come forward.
I had a friend who worked for the Forest Service back during those years, who had a vague interest in Christianity, but he didn't talk about it all that much. One day, his brother showed up with a Volkswagen Van and a mixed group of hippy types, both male and female. It was part of a larger group of Jesus Freaks who had another commune some place in Oregon, and he quit his job and left with them. He didn't officially quit, he just didn't show up for work on Monday. He did the Jesus thing of leaving his world possessions behind, including his paycheck and his car. He told me I could have his car, although I didn't take him up on it, as it would mean transferring of title, and you can't just give away a car without transferring title, even if it's for religious reasons.
Before he left, he explained that the group had devoted their lives to Jesus, and then free and uncommitted sex in in the group was part of the lifestyle. He was pleased with the idea of lots of sex. That was his expectation, probably played up by his brother, although from my experience, sex is seldom "free or uncommitted", at least most of the time.
I never heard from again, so I don't know how it all worked out. A coworker of his did call me asking if I knew where he was so they could send him his final paycheck, but I couldn't help. His coworker was also a confirmed and well known fundamentalist around town, and when I told him Ray had left with his brother to become a Christian, it was met with approval, and the rest of the conversation was about how the coworker hoped that Ray had found one of the Pentecostal religions, which was apparently the only firm foundation on which to build a solid commitment to Christianity.
I never knew what happened to his paycheck or his car. His car sat in the parking lot of the ranger station for a month or so, and then disappeared. Maybe he came back and got it. I don't know.
Yeah sex will get you all the time. Well, mostly all the time. Maybe. Possibly...
Quote from: Cavebear on February 26, 2017, 10:25:11 AM
I'm surprised you even admit to that, since it demonstrates that not only is there no evidence for a deity in the bible (and by association, other religious texts) but that even believers had no basis for their beliefs other than the local loudest salesman of the text.
I am not the Abrahamic you think I am. I know Buddhism and Hinduism too. I like people, in spite of the wacky things they believe.
Quote from: Baruch on February 26, 2017, 12:28:38 PM
I am not the Abrahamic you think I am. I know Buddhism and Hinduism too. I like people, in spite of the wacky things they believe.
And I mostly don't BECAUSE of the whacky things they believe...
Quote from: Cavebear on February 26, 2017, 12:37:47 PM
And I mostly don't BECAUSE of the whacky things they believe...
Bear meet anti-bear ... I follow all of your posts, to read, to ignore, to comment on or to like. You got me.
Quote from: Cavebear on February 26, 2017, 10:37:42 AM
Yeah, it's not IF it's when. I've left instructions for my ashes to be scattered on my garden. If anyone wants my gold fillings, they better be at the event. LOL!
Maybe you could geocache them? It'd be like a treasure hunt!
Quote from: SGOS on February 26, 2017, 10:57:58 AM
I assume that at least one woman wasn't happy. To bring pimping charges against the leader would have required at least one woman to come forward.
I had a friend who worked for the Forest Service back during those years, who had a vague interest in Christianity, but he didn't talk about it all that much. One day, his brother showed up with a Volkswagen Van and a mixed group of hippy types, both male and female. It was part of a larger group of Jesus Freaks who had another commune some place in Oregon, and he quit his job and left with them. He didn't officially quit, he just didn't show up for work on Monday. He did the Jesus thing of leaving his world possessions behind, including his paycheck and his car. He told me I could have his car, although I didn't take him up on it, as it would mean transferring of title, and you can't just give away a car without transferring title, even if it's for religious reasons.
Before he left, he explained that the group had devoted their lives to Jesus, and then free and uncommitted sex in in the group was part of the lifestyle. He was pleased with the idea of lots of sex. That was his expectation, probably played up by his brother, although from my experience, sex is seldom "free or uncommitted", at least most of the time.
I never heard from again, so I don't know how it all worked out. A coworker of his did call me asking if I knew where he was so they could send him his final paycheck, but I couldn't help. His coworker was also a confirmed and well known fundamentalist around town, and when I told him Ray had left with his brother to become a Christian, it was met with approval, and the rest of the conversation was about how the coworker hoped that Ray had found one of the Pentecostal religions, which was apparently the only firm foundation on which to build a solid commitment to Christianity.
I never knew what happened to his paycheck or his car. His car sat in the parking lot of the ranger station for a month or so, and then disappeared. Maybe he came back and got it. I don't know.
I almost got sucked into Scientology in a similar manner - followed the girl who said it was just what I needed. She was so cute, I was just hoping to talk to her a bit longer, and before I knew it, I'd signed up for a "communication" course. It turned out to be not "just what I needed," nor did I see the girl anymore.
Oh, well, c'est la vie...
Same thing happened to me years ago with Nichiren Shoshu. The girl was only interested in her reincarnation, not in me ;-( But I did get good at the Nam Myho Ringo Kyo chant in just a few days.
What a coincidence! I too joined Nichiren Shoshu, way back in the late 80s, and chanted! And apparently for the same reason - again, I was following a girl. Now I use the chant to put me to sleep when I can't stop thinking, and yet must sleep. It helps turn off my internal dialogue long enough to drop off into blessed slumber.
Quote from: Unbeliever on March 01, 2017, 06:09:25 PM
What a coincidence! I too joined Nichiren Shoshu, way back in the late 80s, and chanted! And apparently for the same reason - again, I was following a girl. Now I use the chant to put me to sleep when I can't stop thinking, and yet must sleep. It helps turn off my internal dialogue long enough to drop off into blessed slumber.
I learned to quell the monkey mind without Nichiren Shoshu ... been sane for quite some time now. If you would get your satori on ... you would talk like Lovecraft, like I do.
Is that what you do? I thought you just play confusing-devil's advocate.
Quote from: Unbeliever on March 01, 2017, 06:18:59 PM
Is that what you do? I thought you just play confusing-devil's advocate.
Cthulhu advocate. You apparently want to be eaten first ;-)
(http://i.gr-assets.com/images/S/compressed.photo.goodreads.com/hostedimages/1446985205i/16939575._SX540_.jpg)
My post #29 in this string, analyzed by iwl.me ... says I write like Stephen King. Close enough, my honeymoon was in the hotel which inspired The Shining.
Maybe you inspired IT? :waving:
Quote from: Unbeliever on March 01, 2017, 07:49:23 PM
Maybe you inspired IT? :waving:
I have played a soul draining clown on more than one website. But now that I am Stephen King himself ... I can only say ... "Here's Johnny!".
Quote from: Baruch on March 01, 2017, 07:54:16 PM
I have played a soul draining clown on more than one website. But now that I am Stephen King himself ... I can only say ... "Here's Johnny!".
Actually, the idea of kings langoliers, floating giant meatballs with buzzsaw teeth, isn't without its appeal.
(http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/plantsvszombies/images/c/c1/Langoliers.gif/revision/latest/window-crop/width/200/x-offset/0/y-offset/37/window-width/496/window-height/248?cb=20150215220818)
Quote from: Unbeliever on March 01, 2017, 06:18:59 PM
Is that what you do? I thought you just play confusing-devil's advocate.
He's not confusing, just ever-present and annoying...
Quote from: Cavebear on March 02, 2017, 03:18:07 AM
He's not confusing, just ever-present and annoying...
Ignore me or like me or bite me.
Quote from: Baruch on March 02, 2017, 06:41:45 AM
Ignore me or like me or bite me.
I hesitate to ask, but what part haven't I bitten yet? Oh wait, never mind, I don't want an answer to that.
Quote from: Munch on March 01, 2017, 08:30:05 PM
Actually, the idea of kings langoliers, floating giant meatballs with buzzsaw teeth, isn't without its appeal.
(http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/plantsvszombies/images/c/c1/Langoliers.gif/revision/latest/window-crop/width/200/x-offset/0/y-offset/37/window-width/496/window-height/248?cb=20150215220818)
Looks like Shin Godzilla's mouth.
(http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/godzilla/images/6/63/Shingoji_button_mouth_splitting.jpeg/revision/latest?cb=20160729174317)
Quote from: Hijiri Byakuren on March 02, 2017, 10:30:37 AM
Looks like Shin Godzilla's mouth.
(http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/godzilla/images/6/63/Shingoji_button_mouth_splitting.jpeg/revision/latest?cb=20160729174317)
Where does that exist please and thank you?
Quote from: Hijiri Byakuren on March 02, 2017, 10:30:37 AM
Looks like Shin Godzilla's mouth.
(http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/godzilla/images/6/63/Shingoji_button_mouth_splitting.jpeg/revision/latest?cb=20160729174317)
and that kinda looks like this thing from final fantasy 9.
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/28/0c/a8/280ca857725fcd8ca1cc494cd5b9b60a.jpg)
Quote from: Cavebear on March 02, 2017, 10:53:40 AM
Where does that exist please and thank you?
It's from "Shin Godzilla," which came out last summer. It's not out on Blu-ray, but you can find subtitled copies online via morally questionable means.
Equal opportunity butt-stabber.
Quote from: Hijiri Byakuren on March 02, 2017, 05:28:33 PM
It's from "Shin Godzilla," which came out last summer. It's not out on Blu-ray, but you can find subtitled copies online via morally questionable means.
Equal opportunity butt-stabber.
Well worth it, in my opinion. Godzilla movies always have a human cast to distract from Godzilla, because there's only so much you can do with a giant monster that wrecks things. Usually, the humans are just annoying, but Shin Godzilla actually has some interesting human characters. You can feel the tension, the fatigue, and the emotion as they try to find a way to stop the monster before...well, I can't say without spoilers. lol. It definitely gets a recommendation from me.
Quote from: Munch on March 02, 2017, 02:24:21 PM
and that kinda looks like this thing from final fantasy 9.
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/28/0c/a8/280ca857725fcd8ca1cc494cd5b9b60a.jpg)
Yep, yep, yep, yep.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhKhGyUnc2E
Quote from: Blackleaf on February 25, 2017, 04:58:44 PM
Not only are most Christians literate now, and have a plethora of English translations/transliterations available for purchase, but there are countless free resources ONLINE for them to use. The only excuse Christians have for being ignorant of the Bible is their laziness. After all, why should they find it important to actually study the book they build their entire lives and ethical code around?
From my experience with christian churches most people (Christians) don't really read the bible (of course some do) their knowledge of the bible relates only to the things the pastor, or whatever the leader is called, talks about in his sermons.
At one time I was a Sunday school teacher of teenagers. At that time I was going to college with a minor in philosophy and tried to incorporate some of the things I learned from studies of religions Eventually I was asked (replaced) for teaching things outside bible selections. What a waste of inquiring minds. The "students" didn't seem to mind in fact they were interested in what I taught. Oh well c'est la vie.
Quote from: Ro3bert on March 04, 2017, 08:00:56 PM
From my experience with christian churches most people (Christians) don't really read the bible (of course some do) their knowledge of the bible relates only to the things the pastor, or whatever the leader is called, talks about in his sermons.
At one time I was a Sunday school teacher of teenagers. At that time I was going to college with a minor in philosophy and tried to incorporate some of the things I learned from studies of religions Eventually I was asked (replaced) for teaching things outside bible selections. What a waste of inquiring minds. The "students" didn't seem to mind in fact they were interested in what I taught. Oh well c'est la vie.
Religious people mostly want the love or fear their religion provides. Doesn't matter what those ideas are so long as they are repeated and internalized.
For most, it is a freedom from thought. You do "bad", you go to hell; you follow the rules, you go to heaven, and everyone assumes they will go to heaven somehow. And there ARE always last-minute allowances for even the "bad". You "believe"; you can't lose.
To the extent ants can "believe", they probably think the same. Oh hurray, be an ant...
Quote from: Cavebear on March 05, 2017, 04:42:45 AM
Religious people mostly want the love or fear their religion provides. Doesn't matter what those ideas are so long as they are repeated and internalized.
For most, it is a freedom from thought. You do "bad", you go to hell; you follow the rules, you go to heaven, and everyone assumes they will go to heaven somehow. And there ARE always last-minute allowances for even the "bad". You "believe"; you can't lose.
To the extent ants can "believe", they probably think the same. Oh hurray, be an ant...
E O Wilson social theory .. applied to humans. He studies ants ... and applies his insights to humans. Maybe not as relevant as chimpanzees. I am deeply suspicious of people who use a non-primate to explain human behavior. What the hell is their agenda? We all have agendas. So do religions, so do political parties.
Quote from: Baruch on March 05, 2017, 06:59:49 AM
E O Wilson social theory .. applied to humans. He studies ants ... and applies his insights to humans. Maybe not as relevant as chimpanzees. I am deeply suspicious of people who use a non-primate to explain human behavior. What the hell is their agenda? We all have agendas. So do religions, so do political parties.
Animals usually have the same drives. They want to be fed, not thirsty, have sex, and be happy. There's even a certain beetle that ants will bring offerings of food to so they can crawl on its belly and get high on its secretions.
Quote from: Blackleaf on March 05, 2017, 11:55:12 AM
Animals usually have the same drives. They want to be fed, not thirsty, have sex, and be happy. There's even a certain beetle that ants will bring offerings of food to so they can crawl on its belly and get high on its secretions.
Animal behavior is interesting. But since we are all related to bacteria ... are humans just petri dish disgusting?
Quote from: Blackleaf on March 05, 2017, 11:55:12 AM
Animals usually have the same drives. They want to be fed, not thirsty, have sex, and be happy. There's even a certain beetle that ants will bring offerings of food to so they can crawl on its belly and get high on its secretions.
And yet who is claiming that those ants have a theism? It seems to be an argument theists do not want to make.
Quote from: Cavebear on March 05, 2017, 04:41:48 PM
And yet who is claiming that those ants have a theism? It seems to be an argument theists do not want to make.
A theist would likely quote Psalm 148 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Psalm+148&version=NIV) to you.
Quote from: Blackleaf on March 05, 2017, 09:14:17 PM
A theist would likely quote Psalm 148 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Psalm+148&version=NIV) to you.
Gospel of Thomas 77 ..
Cleave a (piece of) wood; I am there. Raise up a stone, and you will find me there.
Quote from: Unbeliever on February 25, 2017, 03:30:43 PM
I simply read the Bible, the whole Bible, and that was enough to convince me it was NOT the word of any God.
That was a large part of my leaving, except it took multiple times through and wider exposure to the real world to fully take: Inspired word of god>>well, filtered through men who did the actual writing>>ok, the work of men, but there must be something inspired behind/under it>>a book, like many others, written by men; good parts, bad parts, lots of irreverent parts.
When I first read the Bible, I spotted the circular reasoning of believing the bible was God's word, because the Bible said it was God's word. I'd never heard of a fallacy at that time, but I knew the reasoning was wrong. However, I was influenced by the agreement between almost everyone else I had met that the Bible was God's word. I realized that was a poor reason too, but yet the magnitude of the overwhelming numbers believing, as fallacious as that is, was somehow compelling. Peer pressure has a way of molding people into conformity, even if they know it's wrong.
So I understand believing from conformity within the group, but Christians usually fall back on the Bible being God's word, because it says so in the Bible. In my discussions with them, most of them fail to see any problem with that defense, which strikes me odd, because of all the evidence that people like Drew_2017 or Randy attempt to provide, that one comes from the very bottom of a very rotten barrel.
(http://izquotes.com/quotes-pictures/quote-one-recalls-the-governor-of-texas-who-asked-if-the-bible-should-also-be-taught-in-spanish-replied-christopher-hitchens-237670.jpg)
I knew a guy at work like that, but he wasn't governor of Texas. There are stupid people everywhere, even here.
Yeah, and the stupid people are in charge of everything.
Quote from: Unbeliever on February 24, 2017, 04:19:04 PM
That's a lot like internalizing the profits while externalizing the costs.
That's pretty much the business model. And tax-exempt as well. Robber barons could learn a thing or two from clergymen.
Quote from: Baruch on November 25, 2016, 07:10:20 PM
I supported Christianity, because I married into it. They failed to support my family when we needed it most. Fortunately I also had one foot in the Judaism ... and that carried me forward for a few more years. I am still a spiritual guy though, I just don't need the institutions and the social clubs.
I hope you can get past your anger, and find a better situation for yourself. We all need belonging, but you haven't found the right kind yet. Keep looking, the right kind for you might be secular, associating with people who like the same things you like. That is how voluntary society works.
I'm just curious what you mean by being a spiritual guy?
Quote from: SatanicJesus on March 10, 2017, 02:08:02 AM
I'm just curious what you mean by being a spiritual guy?
That didn't take long. I am one of the resident non-atheists here. I read/post for my own psycho-somatic therapy. And to give the other regulars some subversion. One can laugh or cry ... I prefer to laugh ... and I don't mind your subversive avatar one bit. I consider G-d to be like Cthulhu. Monstrous. To more directly answer you ... I am a kosher shaman or Jewish mystic. I experience G-d all the time.
Quote from: Baruch on March 10, 2017, 06:00:40 AM
I am a kosher shaman
So, you can be served at a Jewish deli?
I like kosher pickles. But I don't think the good flavor has anything to do with being kosher.
Quote from: SGOS on March 10, 2017, 05:41:38 PM
I like kosher pickles. But I don't think the good flavor has anything to do with being kosher.
Kosher - not pissed and crapped in by nasty Gentiles. Halal for Muslims means the same ... not passed and crapped in by nasty Infidels.
Quote from: Unbeliever on March 10, 2017, 03:58:15 PM
So, you can be served at a Jewish deli?
Nothing wrong with non-kosher shamen. Medicine men of the Navaho for example.
Like your new picture ... you know a triple face like that is a symbol of Vishnu. Are you going to go all Hindu on us?
Quote from: Baruch on March 10, 2017, 06:00:40 AM
That didn't take long. I am one of the resident non-atheists here. I read/post for my own psycho-somatic therapy. And to give the other regulars some subversion. One can laugh or cry ... I prefer to laugh ... and I don't mind your subversive avatar one bit. I consider G-d to be like Cthulhu. Monstrous. To more directly answer you ... I am a kosher shaman or Jewish mystic. I experience G-d all the time.
Damn this thread exploded. Anyway, I prefer to laugh too and subversion is key to my sense of humor.
I feel spiritual too. Like I still pray to what I think is nothing, but hopefully some unknown unknown will grant some indirect guidance, just to feel good. But deep down I think I am just satisfying a portion of my brain that is nothing more than a primitive superstition which helped our ancestors survive.
I guess that's how I come to define my "spirituality" I guess.......
Quote from: SatanicJesus on March 10, 2017, 09:38:29 PM
Damn this thread exploded. Anyway, I prefer to laugh too and subversion is key to my sense of humor.
I feel spiritual too. Like I still pray to what I think is nothing, but hopefully some unknown unknown will grant some indirect guidance, just to feel good. But deep down I think I am just satisfying a portion of my brain that is nothing more than a primitive superstition which helped our ancestors survive.
I guess that's how I come to define my "spirituality" I guess.......
It is all psychology and sociology, all the say down. Ontological argument is a boring waste of time. You do what you do, either singular "you" or plural "you" ... and as an anthropologist, I just stand back and watch, except then it is time to throw another banana in the midst of the ape men. Many people here make epistemological arguments, yet don't like philosophy. They are just trying to throw some glad rags on their materialistic nakedness.
Quote from: Baruch on March 10, 2017, 07:39:18 PM
Nothing wrong with non-kosher shamen. Medicine men of the Navaho for example.
Like your new picture ... you know a triple face like that is a symbol of Vishnu. Are you going to go all Hindu on us?
Nah, I just found something that would fit well in the space allowed.
Quote from: Unbeliever on March 07, 2017, 07:21:01 PM
(http://izquotes.com/quotes-pictures/quote-one-recalls-the-governor-of-texas-who-asked-if-the-bible-should-also-be-taught-in-spanish-replied-christopher-hitchens-237670.jpg)
Christopher Hitchens works for me.
I don't know how to respond to this thread. As many churches I attended I never really was a part in the sense I went but was never really a part of. Oh, I attended and participated but it was on a non-participatory sense. It's difficult to explain. I believed but I didn't believe if that makes any sense.
Sundays, religion, in the time I went to church, was reserved for Sundays, it was a time for ceremony which I never really believed in. The pageantry really didn't suit me, I'd rather be alone. (I've had a bit too much rum and coke tonight for me to be really coherent so please excuse me).
In any case I was never a real church member, always, rather, a skeptic who went to church as a matter of trying to fit into a life that never really fit me. In those days I was not really aware of being an atheist.
The Bible and God never made sence to me, that Jesus Christ was some sort of Savior who loved and protected me made no sense whatsoever. I never could see that I was some sort of sheep who that was guided by a supernatural being. I have to admit I never gave the whole thing much thought. I would have been a true pagan if I'd never been exposed to religion.
I don't think I'm making much sense here so I'll stop and say "good night Mrs Calabash wherever you are".
Quote from: Cavebear on March 14, 2017, 08:41:27 AM
Christopher Hitchens works for me.
But, just like yourself - atheist dead!
Quote from: Ro3bert on April 26, 2017, 08:15:06 PM
(I've had a bit too much rum and coke tonight for me to be really coherent so please excuse me).
I've always preferred those who mix drinks rather than metaphors... :jook:
Ah, yes, good old Jimmy!
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/_OzDCpIK_A60/Rx3nXvuZWWI/AAAAAAAAAEM/MUfx9r1yxGU/s320/Jimmy+Durante.jpg)
unfortunately I didnt discover Hitchens on yutube until 3 or 4 more months ago. I missed the chance to go to one of his events.
I read Hitch regularly in The Nation (http://thenation.com), although his ongoing pissing match with Alexander Cockburn got tiresome. Annoying, since I was a fan of both writers. I would've loved to see Hitch 'in concert', as it were -- I offer as a tribute to his skill as a writer that I could go from wanting to punch him in the nose to wanting to buy him a drink (or vice versa) within the span of a single sentence.
Quote from: Unbeliever on April 26, 2017, 08:27:03 PM
But, just like yourself - atheist dead!
So he is, so will I someday be, so shall we all be. I expect to die an acknowledged atheist. One never knows what effects old age and dementia may cause, but I will be an atheist until my mind is no longer capable of rational thought.
I have an instructional paper in my Will stating that any statement by me in dotage is not to be understood as a change in my atheism. I.E., any deathbed loss of mental abilities is NOT to be taken as a change of a lifetime of atheistic certainty.
Yeah, like that Darwin guy...
church people made me leave the church.....and then I actually read the babble....whoa...what a load of crap.
Yeah, a dump-truck load...
Unlike many, there was never a time when I WAS religious. I just never was. And I'm glad to not having to had to fight my way to atheism. I just always was.
Quote from: Cavebear on May 18, 2017, 03:16:37 AM
Unlike many, there was never a time when I WAS religious. I just never was. And I'm glad to not having to had to fight my way to atheism. I just always was.
Exactly ... only a demigod could be like that ... Mr Always Was.
Is it the social aspect you never were a part of ... or are you claiming that you have never engaged in magical thinking?
Quote from: Cavebear on May 18, 2017, 03:16:37 AM
Unlike many, there was never a time when I WAS religious. I just never was. And I'm glad to not having to had to fight my way to atheism. I just always was.
I had to fight my way, but the journey was highly rewarding. The part that pisses me off is that fighting to find my way to reality only happened because I had been fed a whole bunch of untruths by my family and society. It pisses me off that people would do this to children. Well, it pisses me off that it was done to me. No one should have to fight just to be normal. You should just be allowed to be normal. It's like someone takes a normal child at a young age, and deprives him of reality by forcing him into a fantasy world, so that his purpose in life then becomes finding his way out of the fantasy. Hell, I could have spent that time bettering myself, morally, financially, and emotionally. It is perhaps the most rewarding waste of time I have ever had to deal with. LOL
Quote from: SGOS on May 18, 2017, 07:29:45 AM
I had to fight my way, but the journey was highly rewarding. The part that pisses me off is that fighting to find my way to reality only happened because I had been fed a whole bunch of untruths by my family and society. It pisses me off that people would do this to children. Well, it pisses me off that it was done to me. No one should have to fight just to be normal. You should just be allowed to be normal. It's like someone takes a normal child at a young age, and deprives him of reality by forcing him into a fantasy world, so that his purpose in life then becomes finding his way out of the fantasy. Hell, I could have spent that time bettering myself, morally, financially, and emotionally. It is perhaps the most rewarding waste of time I have ever had to deal with. LOL
Unfortunately ... the alternative is keeping babies free of language and culture until they are 21 ... when they can be let out of the language/culture free box, to be indoctrinated by SJW folks ;-) Or are you just complaining that life isn't fair? That would be very SJW.
Quote from: Baruch on May 18, 2017, 12:44:51 PM
Unfortunately ... the alternative is keeping babies free of language and culture until they are 21 ... when they can be let out of the language/culture free box, to be indoctrinated by SJW folks ;-) Or are you just complaining that life isn't fair? That would be very SJW.
Life isn't always fair. I accept that, but I don't want a refund. I'll just make do with it.
Yeah, life sucks, then Chump get's elected...
Quote from: Unbeliever on May 18, 2017, 05:16:01 PM
Yeah, life sucks, then Chump get's elected...
Is being SJW being like ... a teenager? Get over it already.
Quote from: SGOS on May 18, 2017, 07:29:45 AM
I had to fight my way, but the journey was highly rewarding. The part that pisses me off is that fighting to find my way to reality only happened because I had been fed a whole bunch of untruths by my family and society. It pisses me off that people would do this to children. Well, it pisses me off that it was done to me. No one should have to fight just to be normal. You should just be allowed to be normal. It's like someone takes a normal child at a young age, and deprives him of reality by forcing him into a fantasy world, so that his purpose in life then becomes finding his way out of the fantasy. Hell, I could have spent that time bettering myself, morally, financially, and emotionally. It is perhaps the most rewarding waste of time I have ever had to deal with. LOL
You went through a struggle I am glad not to have had. I simply wasn't ever religious. That said, there were incidents...
When I was a child (and my "wayward" ways must have been obvious even then - I was a Santa-skeptic at 8) my maternal grandfather took me for a walk and (!) ended up in a church. I walked out.
As a Boy Scout, I needed to do church service to get Eagle rank. I refused.
As a Boy Scout, I went silent on the "reverent" part of the Oath and Law.
Years later, when Paul Trout was expelled from the Boy Scouts because he was an atheist, I sent all my uniforms and badges back the Boy Scout headquarters.
After that, as a telecommunications manager at a Federal Agency, I looked up "dial a' numbers (such calls were forbidden then) and found "dial an atheist". I called the number ASAP at home and discovered, for the first time, I wasn't the only atheist in the world. And I never looked back.
We are not alone. We are all part of one or more tribes. But being "unusual" as a child is something I am also familiar with (my eyes have a congenital birth defect and I stammered until I to to college).