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http://everydayfeminism.com/2016/02/how-people-whitesplain-racism/ (http://everydayfeminism.com/2016/02/how-people-whitesplain-racism/)

I would quote from it, but ever since the last update I now have to manually go in and erase  or from every other line, if not two or three times within each sentence, which makes it the biggest pain in the ass. The short of it...


1. Addresses being "emotional" about issues affecting minority groups.
2. Addresses this way over used line of, "Not ALL white people!" or "Not ALL men!".
3. Addresses, "But I'M not racist!" or the thought that pointing out a problem in a community means that entire community is therefor guilty.
4. Addresses why it might feel like it's somehow racist against you because being uncomfortable sucks but being uncomfortable or doing something racist does not mean you are being called racist.
5. Addresses "All Lives Matter" and "BLM hates white people!".



Edit: Shit, didn't even quote and still had to deal with it. This is how it looked when I posted...

QuoteI would quote [/size]from it, but ever since the last update I now have to manually go in and erase  or [/font]from every other line, if not two or three times within each sentence, which makes it the biggest pain in the ass. The short of it...1. Addresses being "emotional" about issues af[/font]fecting minority groups.2. Addresses this way over used line of, "Not ALL white people!" or "Not ALL men!".[/font]3. Addresses, "But I'M not racist!" or the thought that pointing out a problem in a community means that entire community is therefor guilty.[/font]4. Addresses why it might feel like it's somehow racist against you because being uncom[/font]fortable sucks but being uncomfortable or doing something racist does not mean you are being called racist.5. Addresses "All Lives Matter" and "BLM hates white people!".[/font]

Quote from: Shiranu on November 17, 2016, 02:59:58 AM
http://everydayfeminism.com/2016/02/how-people-whitesplain-racism/ (http://everydayfeminism.com/2016/02/how-people-whitesplain-racism/)

I would quote from it, but ever since the last update I now have to manually go in and erase  or from every other line, if not two or three times within each sentence, which makes it the biggest pain in the ass. The short of it...


1. Addresses being "emotional" about issues affecting minority groups.
2. Addresses this way over used line of, "Not ALL white people!" or "Not ALL men!".
3. Addresses, "But I'M not racist!" or the thought that pointing out a problem in a community means that entire community is therefor guilty.
4. Addresses why it might feel like it's somehow racist against you because being uncomfortable sucks but being uncomfortable or doing something racist does not mean you are being called racist.
5. Addresses "All Lives Matter" and "BLM hates white people!".



Edit: Shit, didn't even quote and still had to deal with it. This is how it looked when I posted...

Well, not all "white men" think that way. ;)

Hey! Some of my best friends are white.

Lots of people on the Left are worried about the Trump presidency right now. I'm worried about it too, but theres something else that worries me a lot more: the emergence of White identity politics as a substantial political force in the US.

One of the few things that Hilary got right during the campaign was her 'basket of deplorables' comment. Roughly speaking, half of Trump's supporters- the half who turned up to his rallies and got him the nomination- are/were unpleasant bigots. Those unpleasant bigots are now well and truly out of the proverbial woodwork, increasingly organized, and increasingly aware of their own power. If Trump disappoints them, they'll turn to people with stronger ideological committments. At which point things start getting very dangerous.

If you wanted to design a recruiting tool for the White Identity bigots, then the article linked above would be it.

Quote from: Duncle on November 17, 2016, 05:27:09 AM
Lots of people on the Left are worried about the Trump presidency right now. I'm worried about it too, but theres something else that worries me a lot more: the emergence of White identity politics as a substantial political force in the US.

One of the few things that Hilary got right during the campaign was her 'basket of deplorables' comment. Roughly speaking, half of Trump's supporters- the half who turned up to his rallies and got him the nomination- are/were unpleasant bigots. Those unpleasant bigots are now well and truly out of the proverbial woodwork, increasingly organized, and increasingly aware of their own power. If Trump disappoints them, they'll turn to people with stronger ideological committments. At which point things start getting very dangerous.

If you wanted to design a recruiting tool for the White Identity bigots, then the article linked above would be it.

The "deplorables" comment was, of course, completely accurate and completely twisted. Clinton said that "some" of Trumps supporters were deplorable and that was accurate.   KKK, and Alt-right types...

Quote from: Cavebear on November 17, 2016, 05:38:08 AM
The "deplorables" comment was, of course, completely accurate and completely twisted. Clinton said that "some" of Trumps supporters were deplorable and that was accurate.   KKK, and Alt-right types...

Yep.

And now the deplorables know that they have numbers, and with the numbers, political power.

The key to stopping bad things from happening seems to me to be this: engaging with the Trump supporters who aren't deplorable. And the way to do that is to stop telling them that they're racists, priveleged etc etc and instead focus on their economic greivances. In my view, the Left took a historic wrong turn when it decided to forget about economic inequality and focus on race and culture-wars issues. Reviving the politics of racial identity was especially ill-advised, and now the consequences of that are unfortunately very apparent.

Neither the Left nor the Right have ever worked for the common good.  They only work for THEIR good.  Both sides are completely committed to their own self-righteousness and bigotries ... enough to fantasize about killing each other.  The turn to identity politics was deliberate, the rich don't want people thinking about class.

Quote from: Shiranu on November 17, 2016, 02:59:58 AM
http://everydayfeminism.com/2016/02/how-people-whitesplain-racism/ (http://everydayfeminism.com/2016/02/how-people-whitesplain-racism/)

I would quote from it, but ever since the last update I now have to manually go in and erase  or from every other line, if not two or three times within each sentence, which makes it the biggest pain in the ass. The short of it...


1. Addresses being "emotional" about issues affecting minority groups.
2. Addresses this way over used line of, "Not ALL white people!" or "Not ALL men!".
3. Addresses, "But I'M not racist!" or the thought that pointing out a problem in a community means that entire community is therefor guilty.
4. Addresses why it might feel like it's somehow racist against you because being uncomfortable sucks but being uncomfortable or doing something racist does not mean you are being called racist.
5. Addresses "All Lives Matter" and "BLM hates white people!".

"All those problems can be solved by black and white people not interacting with one another. Why would I want to be around people where I have to walk on egg shells and worry that I am going to inadvertently say the wrong thing? Black people don't like being stereotyped for the color of their skin and neither do I. How come as a white person I have to listen to blacks but they don't have to listen to me? This whole 'privilege" thing is bullshit; I wasn't born with everything handed to me, I WORKED for it. Also, if I have this amazing privilege as a white person, why exactly would I want to give that up? If I'm going to be called a racist for just EXISTING then I guess I'll just be a racist."

I completely understand what Maisha Z Johnson is saying but what I described above is how many whites are reacting. The Left makes an assumption that people are "well-intentioned" and then complains that even the "well-intentioned" screw it up. This approach can have the unintended consequence of feeding into the Alt-Right. Racism is a huge problem that needs to be addressed but some of these strategies contribute to defensiveness and polarization.

Research says there are ways to reduce racial bias. Calling people racist isn’t one of them.

http://www.vox.com/identities/2016/11/15/13595508/racism-trump-research-study

... Robin DiAngelo, who studies race at Westfield State University, described this phenomenon as “white fragility” in a groundbreaking 2011 paper:

White people in North America live in a social environment that protects and insulates them from race-based stress. This insulated environment of racial protection builds white expectations for racial comfort while at the same time lowering the ability to tolerate racial stress, leading to what I refer to as White Fragility. White Fragility is a state in which even a minimum amount of racial stress becomes intolerable, triggering a range of defensive moves. These moves include the outward display of emotions such as anger, fear, and guilt, and behaviors such as argumentation, silence, and leaving the stress-inducing situation. These behaviors, in turn, function to reinstate white racial equilibrium.

Most Americans, white people included, want to think that they’re not capable of racism â€" particularly after the civil rights movement, overt racism is widely viewed as unacceptable in American society. Yet racism, obviously, still exists. And when some white people are confronted with that reality, whether it’s accusations of racism against them personally or more broadly, they immediately become very defensive â€" even hostile.

“Most of us live in racial segregation,” DiAngelo told me. “Our teachers are white. Our role models are white. Our heroes and heroines are white. That insulation is very rarely challenged.” She added, “So when that reality is questioned, we don’t tend to handle it very well.”

DiAngelo’s paper explained that white Americans have a range of “triggers” that make them defensive about race, from suggestions that a person’s viewpoint is racialized to the rise of people of color into prominent leadership positions. All the triggers that she listed were present in 2016 â€" through President Barack Obama’s elections and Black Lives Matter protests against the dominance of white privilege.

Consider how often throughout the 2016 election people would respond to even the slightest suggestion of racism, whether in media or everyday life, with immediate vitriol, disdain, or dismissal. This, DiAngelo argued, is a defense mechanism to confronting questions about privilege. And it makes it difficult to have a reasonable conversation about race.

DiAngelo offered a telling example, from an anti-racism training session she facilitated:

One of the white participants left the session and went back to her desk, upset at receiving (what appeared to the training team as) sensitive and diplomatic feedback on how some of her statements had impacted several people of color in the room. At break, several other white participants approached us (the trainers) and reported that they had talked to the woman at her desk, and she was very upset that her statements had been challenged. They wanted to alert us to the fact that she literally “might be having a heart-attack.” Upon questioning from us, they clarified that they meant this literally. These co-workers were sincere in their fear that the young woman might actually physically die as a result of the feedback. Of course, when news of the woman’s potentially fatal condition reached the rest of the participant group, all attention was immediately focused back onto her and away from the impact she had had on the people of color.

This illustrates just how defensive people can get in the face of accusations of racism: Not only did the woman who faced the criticisms genuinely feel like she was having a heart attack, but the white people around her believed it was totally possible she was. This is the reality of trying to have a conversation about race in America. ...

It's almost impossible if not completely impossibble to shame people into changing how they view things at the emotional level. There are certain issues I feel about, not necessarily race, but many other things I can't really specify that just never change regardless of how many times someone else tries to tell me I'm wrong. I might verbally acknowledge them, but somewhere deep in my mind I know that I won't change how i feel. Yes, it's one of my many flaws as a human being, but I'm certainly not alone in how i process information. It's inherent to all of us.
I grew up in a very white part of town where there were very few people of color and it wasn't until the latter part of my teen years that I was even exposed to black culture so there was a fear that wasn't overcome simply because someone sat me down to explain any of it. I had to live it up close and personal. My first real exposure to other cultures was in a job corps center in of all places Derby Montana,  hardly a hotbed of black culture, but it was an isolated place in the mountains where it was pretty much 50/50 white/black with a smattering of Hispanic guys in the mix. The option of only hanging out with just white guys didn't exist. The few openly racist guys there quickly became known and had to drop their views or at least keep them to themselves. There were a few fights here and there, but I found myself fighting more with other white guys than with anyone else.
Anyway, as an adult I didn't have the money nor opportunity to move out to the white suburban areas so I lived in the city where quite often i was in the minority which forced me to have to realize that just being white was not necessarily in my favor nor was it anything to fear. I found out my neighbors had the same fears and goals and we were all in the same predicament, broke and raising families when jobs were in short supply. The fears I once had of black culture slowly vanished, but it was because I had to live with people from many different backgrounds and cultures.
And so here we are with so many people living lives nearly completely isolated from having to have to interact with any other race or point of view. Now people can watch only the news and tv shows that confirm their worse fears, that all black people are to be feared and every Muslim is out to get them.. It's as if there is the option to have your own personalized reality where your own emotional comfort is far more important than anything that might advance the world into a livable place of peace and harmony.

Quote from: Cavebear on November 17, 2016, 05:38:08 AM
The "deplorables" comment was, of course, completely accurate and completely twisted. Clinton said that "some" of Trumps supporters were deplorable and that was accurate.   KKK, and Alt-right types...

She was being charitable when she made that statement.

I give up on the English language..when just about any issue can be shortened by tacking on 'splain' the language has stopped to be of much use.. Someday soon we'll have one word to splain everything.. gblhgdfbrafe..  gblhgdfbrafe will soon be the last word anyone needs to know..
Wait, make that gblhgdfbrafesplain.

I have to admit, I don't particularly get this line of thought...

"Don't talk about an issue, because white people might get offended and not listen."

Since when did that ever matter? Hasn't a very recurring theme here been, "It doesn't matter if you are offended by the truth, the truth has no obligation to not offend?". So why is talking about the truth of racial inequality or that white people (and minorities) exhibit behaviour of unconscious or cultural racism a topic of, "talk about anything offensive but that because it might hurt white people's feelings?".

Racism is not going to disappear by not talking about it, just like we aren't going to fix the economy by pretending it's okay or get socialized medical care by just hoping it will magically come to us one day. It takes work to deal with it, and it takes it being addressed.

Basically anything to do with racial injustice, "white people" (as a group and not so much as individuals) either instantly assume that everyone is racist against them, that it is "too extreme" to have to hear about it or some other reason why it's too inconvenient to hear, so just don't talk about it and everything will be fine. It's easy to say that when you are on the side not having issues... it's telling a starving person to just shut up about being hungry when you hold all the food supply, because it's making you feel bad and that he is being too "radical" by being upset.

Well I for one am not looking forward to the genocide of the white race..hasn't anyone noticed the roving gangs of white people killers out every day to murder us all off? Just go to any grocery store and you'll find white meat for sale.. They kill white chickens by the billions!   

Quote from: Shiranu on November 17, 2016, 11:41:23 AM
I have to admit, I don't particularly get this line of thought...

"Don't talk about an issue, because white people might get offended and not listen."

Since when did that ever matter? Hasn't a very recurring theme here been, "It doesn't matter if you are offended by the truth, the truth has no obligation to not offend?". So why is talking about the truth of racial inequality or that white people (and minorities) exhibit behaviour of unconscious or cultural racism a topic of, "talk about anything offensive but that because it might hurt white people's feelings?".

Racism is not going to disappear by not talking about it, just like we aren't going to fix the economy by pretending it's okay or get socialized medical care by just hoping it will magically come to us one day. It takes work to deal with it, and it takes it being addressed.

Basically anything to do with racial injustice, "white people" (as a group and not so much as individuals) either instantly assume that everyone is racist against them, that it is "too extreme" to have to hear about it or some other reason why it's too inconvenient to hear, so just don't talk about it and everything will be fine. It's easy to say that when you are on the side not having issues... it's telling a starving person to just shut up about being hungry when you hold all the food supply, because it's making you feel bad and that he is being too "radical" by being upset.

As a white man to another white man I say STFU

Just going to ignore the blatant racism there and say sorry cupcake, that isn't how it works. #Triggered

Don't people see how messed up this article is?  The only thing I need to say is that Miss Johnson is telling us to to judge others by the color of their skin.  If you're white, you're automatically biased so tread carefully.  And she prefaced it by making the same claim about gender. 

This is what identity politics does to your brain.  Wow.

Quote from: Shiranu on November 17, 2016, 11:41:23 AM
I have to admit, I don't particularly get this line of thought...

"Don't talk about an issue, because white people might get offended and not listen."

Since when did that ever matter? Hasn't a very recurring theme here been, "It doesn't matter if you are offended by the truth, the truth has no obligation to not offend?". So why is talking about the truth of racial inequality or that white people (and minorities) exhibit behaviour of unconscious or cultural racism a topic of, "talk about anything offensive but that because it might hurt white people's feelings?".

Racism is not going to disappear by not talking about it, just like we aren't going to fix the economy by pretending it's okay or get socialized medical care by just hoping it will magically come to us one day. It takes work to deal with it, and it takes it being addressed.

Basically anything to do with racial injustice, "white people" (as a group and not so much as individuals) either instantly assume that everyone is racist against them, that it is "too extreme" to have to hear about it or some other reason why it's too inconvenient to hear, so just don't talk about it and everything will be fine. It's easy to say that when you are on the side not having issues... it's telling a starving person to just shut up about being hungry when you hold all the food supply, because it's making you feel bad and that he is being too "radical" by being upset.

I agree that race needs to be talked about and ignoring the problem won't make it go away. As with most things, I'm most interested in what is effective, what actually promotes change. I do think the approach described by Maisha Z Johnson is probably effective for liberal leaning people who have some education regarding civil rights and social justice. For people who are not versed on the topic I think it can push them away. Unlike identity politics, which emphasize group identity and difference, I think most people would respond better to an approach of inclusion. Minorities need to be viewed by the majority as "one of us." Ideally the message would be tailored to the audience based on their values: Christians- we are all God's children, Republicans- we are all Americans, Libertarians- we all deserve individual rights. Once people accept minorities are part of the tribe then inequalities can be addressed, e.g. here is evidence that black men are treated unjustly by the criminal justice system and all Americans deserve equal treatment under the law. I feel that identity politics is great for pulling a minority group together, raising consciousness and motivating for change but when the minority group confronts the majority an inclusive message, such as one based on rights or ethics, is probably more effective.

I'm open to ideas on how to address the problem of race. Changing attitudes that have been entrenched for generations is incredibly difficult and require different approaches.
From the article I cited above:

... In The Science of Equality, Godsil and her co-authors proposed several tactics that seem, based on the research, promising: presenting people with examples that break stereotypes, asking them to think about people of color as individuals rather than as a group, tasking them with taking on first-person perspectives of people of color, and increasing contact between people of different races. All of these interventions appear to reduce subconscious racial biases, while interracial contact appears most promising for reducing racial anxiety more broadly.

Of course, interracial contact can be hard to achieve in communities that are racially homogeneous â€" in other words, a lot of rural white communities. But the researchers note that even indirect contact â€" for example, knowing that one of your white neighbors is friends with a person of color â€" can reduce prejudice, suggesting there are ways to reduce racial anxiety without direct contact. ...

I spent a lot of time in countries where whites weren't the  majority. Nobody killed me for being white.

Quote from: Jack89 on November 17, 2016, 12:27:52 PM
Don't people see how messed up this article is?  The only thing I need to say is that Miss Johnson is telling us to to judge others by the color of their skin.  If you're white, you're automatically biased so tread carefully.  And she prefaced it by making the same claim about gender. 

This is what identity politics does to your brain.  Wow.

One coin, two sides I guess. We read to different articles; the one I read said that is exactly NOT what is happening.


And I guess that's my biggest problem... I don't understand how this article, which is specifically saying it's not an attack on you but rather an issue much larger than the individual, is being taken as a personal attack. How can you ever address large scale issues if people refuse to admit they exist because they are uncomfortable?

QuoteUnlike identity politics, which emphasize group identity and difference, I think most people would respond better to an approach of inclusion. Minorities need to be viewed by the majority as "one of us."

I completely agree, but the major problem is as an outsider I have no ability to make that change. That is a conclusion they have to come to on their own. And sitting around singing kumbiaya and hoping they notice they are wrong is simply not going to work, they will just continue going on as normal.

I don't know what the solution is, but we have tried just keeping our heads down and hoping people treat us equally... and it hasn't worked for minorities, it hasn't worked for Muslims, it hasn't worked for the LGBT community and it hasn't worked for liberals. I think the biggest thing is what both you and APA hinted at; surrounding people with more minorities so they seem more "normal". But unfortunately... even though we no longer have gated communities to keep them out, neighbourhoods are still predominately one race or another, and even at universities the people who really need to be exposed join frats that are almost all white our stick with cliques that reaffirm their biases... and despite what certain posters here want to imply, the "Great Satan" of higher education is not infact teaching "Cultural Marxism" and destroying the white race. I have had a professor tell a black girl not to participate in a survey because it would skew his results. Does that sound like "Cultural Marxism"?

When people intentionally surround themselves with people who agree with them, you cannot get through to them without forceful language that may step on a few toes, or actions that inconvenience them. The problem is that even people who aren't being accused of anything wrong start to take offense to it, which is ridiculous.

Oh cool. Another term with the sole purpose to silence a demographic of people.

Quote from: PickelledEggs on November 17, 2016, 01:26:36 PM
Oh cool. Another term with the sole purpose to silence a demographic of people.

Oh, hush! Enough of your adminsplaining.

Quote from: PickelledEggs on November 17, 2016, 01:26:36 PM
Oh cool. Another term with the sole purpose to silence a demographic of people.

Oh cool. Another person ignoring the actual point to make it all about  how offended they are that a group they belong to could show similar traits.

Quote from: Shiranu on November 17, 2016, 01:30:37 PM
Oh cool. Another person ignoring the actual point to make it all about  how offended they are that a group they belong to could show similar traits.

You're assuming. I just woke up and I'm too tired to be offended. Just pointing out the truth of what it is

I'll read the article in a bit. I need to eat some lunch and jerk off first.

Not necessarily in that order...

I just don't buy that truth, but since you didn't read it that's okay.

Quote from: Shiranu on November 17, 2016, 01:37:47 PM
I just don't buy that truth, but since you didn't read it that's okay.

Fair enough. I'll read it a little later and get back to you. That's the first thing I thought though when I read "whitesplaining". If it's anything as unnecessarily dismissive as "mansplaining", my assessment of the word is probably going to stay the same.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

I will say I do kinda find these different names obnoxious, but I just don't know what else you can call it at this point. You can't say "ignorant, presumptuous, unconsciously racist"  etc. Because that is too strong of language, but at the same time these words seem more like jokes than serious issues.

QuoteI’m venting about my day, and I tell you I’m angry that a white neighbor told me, “I don’t even see you as Black.”

Would you reassure me that my neighbor meant well? If you do, don’t be surprised if I’m just as annoyed as you would be if a man tried to explain your experience with street harassment to you.

I think this is the key part of the article. If someone thinks "I don't even see you as black" as a "microaggression" they're either overreacting, or they're telling us about the conversation in a very fragmented and out of context way.

QuoteAfter I’ve dealt with microaggressions on a daily basis for so long, it’s just cruel to expect me to minimize my feelings about racism.

Ok. Lets talk about Micro aggressions. I feel like microaggressions is a thing that is particular to each individual person. In addition to that, just because they are offended by it, doesn't mean the person saying it is saying it with malice or the thing being said is any way objectively agressive.... at this point, if it's not objectively aggressive, it's all subjective and on the listener's/audience's ears/eyes/etc.

That is impossible to work around. It's like saying "don't walk on my eggshells that are on the ground" and then you turn out the lights and tell the person to walk across the pitch black room to the door and find their way out of their safe space.

"I don't even see you as black" is something that eliminates race completely. It puts both parties more on equal levels. I don't know what else was included in the conversation, but on it's own. "I don't even see you as black" is a pretty good "equality thing" to say, if you ask me.

Lets take this quote that was included for instance though...

Quote“you’re pretty for a Black girl.”

This is actually kind of insulting...
I don't even have to be black to see how that is insulting. Any time someone says a compliment and follows it up with "... for a [insert demographic here]" it is objectively kind of insulting. Not subjective.

A personal story that the "you're pretty" thing reminded me of. The other day, when I was at work waiting tables, I was waiting on a young couple that was on a date. The girl was fucking gorgeous.
I went up to the host stand and had to get it off my chest and just went "Jesus. The girl at table 81 is fucking gorgeous." and the host goes "You like black girls, Steve?" and I replied "...uhhh.... well I like women.... If someone is attractive, they're attractive."

On another note, I overheard a conversation between two black guys that I work with. The one guy said to the other "Man, you talk like a white guy" He said it as an insult and made sure to be clear of that to the other guy and I thought to my self.... I'm confused at why that's an insult.... is it bad to articulate your words? The guy that said that my other coworker sounds like a white guy slurs his words all the time and you can barely make out what he's saying sometimes.... so I was confused at why "talking like a white guy" was supposed to be an insult lol


But anyway. back on track. The article has a few good points. Some white people are racist and don't know it. Some white people dismiss racism because they don't witness it. But a bunch of the stuff this girl is talking about seems like she drank too much of the "I'm offended" kool-aide

Quote from: Shiranu on November 17, 2016, 12:13:18 PM
Just going to ignore the blatant racism there and say sorry cupcake, that isn't how it works. #Triggered

I'm not racist.

Someone saying that they don't see race and just see people is not racist at all. If a black person is going to get upset by that statement and see it as racist, they are looking to make themselves miserable and upset by every little thing in the world. Like Anita Sarkeesian says, "Everything is sexist, everything is racist, everything is homophobic"... if you want it to be. Claiming to be colourblind is not saying that blackness is a bad thing. It's referring to judging people by the content of their character. When one is looking for a reason to be offended everywhere they go, they're likely going to find a reason to be offended everywhere they go.

"Pretty for a black girl" is not racism. It's simply stating your preference. That you're not usually attracted to black girls. It's probably best to keep that kind of talk between friends though and not say that to a black girl's face.

White people talk over her? Well, I talk over other white people and sometimes they talk over me. I guess that means I don't respect my fellow white people, and the white people I'm talking to don't respect their fellow white people. By "don't talk over me", I think what the author is really saying is, 'Listen to me and agree with me or shut up. I don't want to hear any arguments against what I've had to say. If anyone disagrees, they are being unconsciously racist towards me.' She seems to confirm this when she writes "Holding back from correcting someone when you think they’re wrong," and "But the thing is, I’ve heard these whitesplanations over and over again. None of them are original, and it’s a waste of my time (and yours) to do this dance again and again and treat them like they are."

"Whitesplain" is a divisive and dumb word. I agree the with major concerns of black and brown people, and I'm not someone who denies that white privilege is real and is an issue, and I recognize that unconscious racism and bias is a problem, but when I see the colour of my skin being used as an insult, my automatic reaction is "fuck that". Jews in the US are doing fairly well. Imagine someone starting to use the word "Jewsplaining". That's how I see whitesplaining. It's needlessly divisive and causing would be allies to turn on you.

Portmanteaus are the hip buzzwords these days. It seems that most of the time it's a generalization that educates no one and frustrates everyone. 

With that being said I'm not sure why people can't have a little more tact and self awareness that takes no more effort.  'I don't see you as black' might not be racist but it makes you sound detached from reality.  Why is it so hard to recognize two people fucked and had a kid and at least one of the parents was black.  It's dismissive.

I don't think it's racist to say you don't color, I think it's just a lie.

Also, drac... Never said you were. I honestly doubt anyone here is particularly racist, intentionally or unconciously.

Quote from: Shiranu on November 17, 2016, 05:30:14 PM
I don't think it's racist to say you see?* don't color, I think it's just a lie.

Eh. I don't agree with that. While we all see skin color, not everyone sees people as better or worse because of it. Saying you don't see color just means you don't see a reason one skin color is better or worse than another. Or if your actually colorblind like me and have trouble seeing pigment because of the rods and cones in your eyes...  Lol


Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

Quote from: PickelledEggs on November 17, 2016, 05:43:38 PM
Eh. I don't agree with that. While we all see skin color, not everyone sees people as better or worse because of it. Saying you don't see color just means you don't see a reason one skin color is better or worse than another. Or if your actually colorblind like me and have trouble seeing pigment because of the rods and cones in your eyes...  Lol


Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

It is easy for Whites in the US to be color-blind ... not so for African-Americans.  The opposite would be true in W Africa.

Quote from: Baruch on November 17, 2016, 07:32:39 PM
It is easy for Whites in the US to be color-blind ... not so for African-Americans.  The opposite would be true in W Africa.

Yes. And that in no way should be demonized when they are.

Quote from: Duncle on November 17, 2016, 05:27:09 AMbut theres something else that worries me a lot more: the emergence of White identity politics as a substantial political force in the US.

Well, when identity politics became a thing with the LGBT and colored folks, it was only a matter of time before it was adopted by whites. That's just basic sociology. Like many ideas designed to cement the control of one group over another, identity politics were conceived by people who never considered how it could be used against them. Let's hope their safe spaces come with seatbelts, because they're gonna want to buckle up now that Trump's at the wheel. :lol:

Quote from: PickelledEggs on November 17, 2016, 10:49:34 PM
Yes. And that in no way should be demonized when they are.

Many young people today are reality allergic.  They call themselves idealists.  Reality is more like a Dragons & Dungeons game where everyone cheats and people really die.  And the dungeon master is actually a sadist.  You can either learn to acknowledge this reality and successfully deal with it (and all the compromises it requires) or stay in your parent's basement.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iqq7O2HqTUk

Quote from: Baruch on November 18, 2016, 05:30:21 AM
Many young people today are reality allergic.  They call themselves idealists.  Reality is more like a Dragons & Dungeons game where everyone cheats and people really die.  And the dungeon master is actually a sadist.  You can either learn to acknowledge this reality and successfully deal with it (and all the compromises it requires) or stay in your parent's basement.

What the living hell are you talking about.

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Quote from: PickelledEggs on November 18, 2016, 08:14:07 AM
What the living hell are you talking about.

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He sweeps generalizations the way a Zamboni sweeps ice.

It shouldn't be racist to say things like "I don't see color" or "black on black crime" or "I have black friends"; however, in my experience, the people who tend to say these things also tend to say and do racist things. So they've become part of a list of "things racists say".

Quote from: PickelledEggs on November 18, 2016, 08:14:07 AM
What the living hell are you talking about.

Armchair activists.


Equal opportunity butt-stabber.

Quote from: PickelledEggs on November 18, 2016, 08:14:07 AM
What the living hell are you talking about.

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Whitesplaining is a subset of SJW-speak.  Usually promoted by Snowflakes living in their parent's basement ... though some of you are my age too ;-)

Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on November 18, 2016, 08:50:10 AM
He sweeps generalizations the way a Zamboni sweeps ice.

You will be grateful that the ice rink is smooth, so you don't fall while doing a Double Axel.

Quote from: Atheon on November 18, 2016, 10:08:12 AM
It shouldn't be racist to say things like "I don't see color" or "black on black crime" or "I have black friends"; however, in my experience, the people who tend to say these things also tend to say and do racist things. So they've become part of a list of "things racists say".

Racists often use the word "the" ... going to trigger over that?

Quote from: Baruch on November 18, 2016, 08:16:02 PM
You will be grateful that the ice rink is smooth, so you don't fall while doing a Double Axel.

At least Axel Rose to the challenge.

We who see all see skin color.  The important thing is to know why it exists, how little it matters, and look beyond it.

Quote from: Cavebear on November 28, 2016, 01:34:47 AM
The important thing is to know why it exists, how little it matters, and look beyond it.

That's what colourblind means. It doesn't mean, as the author of the article in the OP seems to think, that the person sees "blackness" as a bad thing. Colourblind means that the person recognizes that many people do see blackness as a bad thing, but the person is choosing to look beyond stereotypes and not judge the person based on their skin colour, and just look at them as a human being. The black girl who wrote the article has made up her mind. Saying that you're colourblind is racist to her, and she thinks that because she simply doesn't understand what colourblind means. She's inventing her own definition, and when we disagree with her silly definition that almost no one uses, she calls the person in disagreement a racist. The woman is set in her ways and there is no room for dialogue with her. She is determined to see racism where there is none. Maybe because one of her dumb friends told her that colourblind people are closet racists and she just went along with it without really thinking it through. I don't know, but her interpretation of colourblind is really stupid, and I'm not going to hold back from saying so just because she is black and I should "trust her experience" and hold my tongue because I'm white. If you say you judge based on skin colour, you're racist. If you say you don't judge based on skin colour, you're racist.

Correct, if anyone not a Blood, then are against us ;-(  Are you a member of my Tribe?  We keep that under the radar usually ... African-Americans have a hard time hiding who they are.  So was "colorblind" invented so White folks would pretend that bygones are bygones?  Gotta get some more of that Affirmative Action ... while supplies still last!  Remember, Black women are the most victimized of all, both African-American and women.  White women just won't get it, that is why they weren't enthusiastic for Hillary.  They would have voted more for Michelle though ;-)

Quote from: FaithIsFilth on November 30, 2016, 06:46:11 AM
That's what colourblind means. It doesn't mean, as the author of the article in the OP seems to think, that the person sees "blackness" as a bad thing. Colourblind means that the person recognizes that many people do see blackness as a bad thing, but the person is choosing to look beyond stereotypes and not judge the person based on their skin colour, and just look at them as a human being. The black girl who wrote the article has made up her mind. Saying that you're colourblind is racist to her, and she thinks that because she simply doesn't understand what colourblind means. She's inventing her own definition, and when we disagree with her silly definition that almost no one uses, she calls the person in disagreement a racist. The woman is set in her ways and there is no room for dialogue with her. She is determined to see racism where there is none. Maybe because one of her dumb friends told her that colourblind people are closet racists and she just went along with it without really thinking it through. I don't know, but her interpretation of colourblind is really stupid, and I'm not going to hold back from saying so just because she is black and I should "trust her experience" and hold my tongue because I'm white. If you say you judge based on skin colour, you're racist. If you say you don't judge based on skin colour, you're racist.

As an acceptor of evolutionary biology, knowing that we all came out of Africa with dark skin, that we lost melanin to get more vitamin D (in the sense that the randomly lighter skinned humans up north had an advantage through that), I don't really care about skin color.  It is just a local variation for adaption to local conditions. 

I'm not sure that there are even "races" just local adaptions to conditions.  And with the way we move around, I expect we will all be a general tan color some day with pockets of slightly lighter and darker skin. 

They used to say, that the Polynesians were the most equalized race ... but put down that poi .. it's fattening!

Quote from: Baruch on December 02, 2016, 07:26:19 PM
They used to say, that the Polynesians were the most equalized race ... but put down that poi .. it's fattening!

A Japanese pilot crash-landed on one of the Hawaiian islands, Niihau, on Dec. 7th, 1941. He tried to take over the little island, but made the mistake of shooting this big local. The guy broke him.

Quote from: Baruch on December 02, 2016, 07:26:19 PM
They used to say, that the Polynesians were the most equalized race ... but put down that poi .. it's fattening!

I have an uncle who spent time in Hawaii.  He said Poi was the most god-awful starch he ever tasted.  He said wet wheat flour paste was better.  And otherwise he LIKED Hawaii.