https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gK8XzRKOem8
It takes two words to refute that concept; Mike Pence.
Edit: Wow, her argument is that fighting ISIS means he isn't a threat to gay rights. Brilliant.
Quote from: Shiranu on November 11, 2016, 06:04:53 PM
It takes two words to refute that concept; Mike Pence.
Which is why it is doubly important to stop this "impeach/assassinate Trump" nonsense. :P
Quote from: Hijiri Byakuren on November 11, 2016, 06:05:54 PM
Which is why it is doubly important to stop this "impeach/assassinate Trump" nonsense. :P
I have no desire to see Trump impeached because I think that is exactly what the Republicans want (and he hasn't done anything to warrant impeachment, just absolute disdain for him as a person). They were the one's who pushed for a Pence VP since he is an established party-line candidate who is too radical to get elected. If Trump goes the Republicans get the Prez... VP... House and Senate.
It is one of many reasons I want to see Trump do well... because the moment he fucks up and the calls to impeach him go out... do you think the Democrats are going to turn that down? How easy will it be for the Republicans (who already hold a majority) to get bipartisan support?
Strategically the Republicans didn't just win when Trump was elected... they absolutely murdered the Democrats at every level of the government. That is what should really scare Americans. The Legislative, the Administrative and the Judaical branch all now belong to people who think very similarly and share the same basic ideology... as well as many state level governments. Trump is... in the current situation... the best option we have until we can replace him with someone further to the left.
Trump doesn't seem like LGBT is a big issue for him. He will be lobbied by the GOP to oppose it. I've no idea what he will do.
Quote from: SGOS on November 11, 2016, 06:31:00 PM
Trump doesn't seem like LGBT is a big issue for him. He will be lobbied by the GOP to oppose it. I've no idea what he will do.
I don't know, I think there's bigger fish to fry before it's brought up again. And aside from the evangelicals and Muslims, It's really not that big of a deal to most Americans anymore.
Quote from: Jack89 on November 11, 2016, 06:52:05 PM
I don't know, I think there's bigger fish to fry before it's brought up again. And aside from the evangelicals and Muslims, It's really not that big of a deal to most Americans anymore.
Most Americans, maybe not... but to the "Americans who matter", the Americans who make policy? Yeah, it's still a big deal.
If I learned anything from this election, is to never believe that most Americans are "good people" who will do good things.
Trump is not only a threat to LGBT rights, he's a threat to the First Amendment, and for that matter an existential threat to the nation.
And, I am pleased to say and despite the Electoral College, he is not the choice of either the majority or the plurality of Americans.
It's time to abolish the Electoral College. That's twice in 16 years the will of the majority has been thwarted.
Be afraid.
http://www.hrc.org/blog/reports-of-anti-lgbtq-extremists-tapped-for-major-roles-on-president-elect
Quote from: Shiranu on November 11, 2016, 07:02:15 PM
If I learned anything from this election, is to never believe that most Americans are "good people" who will do good things.
The dis-illusion of the vast middle class has come squarely to play on many years of supporting the Democrats with nothing to show for it. But rest assured this is not squarely a Democratic problem, many republicans voted for trump not because he was a pub candidate but because he was openly an outsider. I think if the pubs had presented any of the other candidates they would have gone for clinton. Our populace is starting to get real pissed off about bankers, CEO's and politicians making hundreds of millions of dollars every year, social media has done some good...the ball is starting bounce, it may get ugly...but it is indeed bouncing.
The lefties make it sound like Trump is going to start killing gays, take away womens rights and bring slavery back, since when did Trump become a muslim?
Quote from: aitm on November 11, 2016, 10:06:56 PM
The dis-illusion of the vast middle class has come squarely to play on many years of supporting the Democrats with nothing to show for it. But rest assured this is not squarely a Democratic problem, many republicans voted for trump not because he was a pub candidate but because he was openly an outsider. I think if the pubs had presented any of the other candidates they would have gone for clinton. Our populace is starting to get real pissed off about bankers, CEO's and politicians making hundreds of millions of dollars every year, social media has done some good...the ball is starting bounce, it may get ugly...but it is indeed bouncing.
Don't underestimate the damage PC culture has done either.
Quote from: baronvonrort on November 11, 2016, 11:11:15 PM
The lefties make it sound like Trump is going to start killing gays, take away womens rights and bring slavery back, since when did Trump become a muslim?
He's worse. He's a Christian. He's in league with the Religious Right, whose goals are the destruction of women's rights, the persecution of gays, and the imposition of theocracy with the Bible replacing the Constitution. No Muslim poses more of a threat to the US than the Religious Right.
Quote from: Atheon on November 12, 2016, 12:02:51 AM
He's worse. He's a Christian. He's in league with the Religious Right, whose goals are the destruction of women's rights, the persecution of gays, and the imposition of theocracy with the Bible replacing the Constitution. No Muslim poses more of a threat to the US than the Religious Right.
Triggered response in 3, 2, ...
"I will protect our LGBT citizens from hateful foreign ideology" doesn't address the actual concern, which is hateful domestic ideology. I suspect that Trump doesn't care about LGBT people one way or another, however if as a group they somehow pissed him off I can see him retaliating. I also suspect anti-LGBT legislation might be worked into a deal to secure legislation more to Trump's interests, such as tax breaks or trade deals. I acknowledge this is wild speculation.
Leaving same-sex marriage to the states is a plan that sound reasonable in theory but problematic in application. If I'm married in California am I not married if I move to North Carolina? How about if we visit NC and one of us has to go to a hospital? Will corporations invest in states where no LGBT person wants to live?
Trump transition team raises alarms as anti-LGBT agenda emerges
http://www.washingtonblade.com/2016/11/10/anti-lgbt-trump-transition-team/
A prominent anti-LGBT organization is readying its agenda to undo LGBT rights as President-elect Donald Trump’s transition team begins to take shape and includes some notoriously hostile figures.
The National Organization for Marriage in a blog post Wednesday unveiled a four-point plan aimed at undoing LGBT rights advanced under the Obama administration, including marriage equality and writing discrimination into the law in the form of the First Amendment Defense Act.
"Here is our plan:
We will work with President Trump to nominate conservative justices to the U.S. Supreme Court, individuals who will adhere to the words and meaning of the constitution. Such justices will inevitably reverse the anti-constitutional ruling of the Supreme Court imposing same-sex ‘marriage’ on the nation in the Obergefell decision, because that decision lacked any basis in the constitution.
We will work with President Trump to rescind the illegal, over-reaching executive orders and directives issued by President Obama, including his dangerous “gender identity†directives, attempting to redefine gender just as he sought to redefine marriage.
We will work with President Trump to reverse policies of the Obama administration that seek to coerce other countries into accepting same-sex ‘marriage’ as a condition of receiving US assistance and aid. It is fundamentally wrong for a president to become a lobbyist for the LGBT agenda, and we are confident that will end in the Trump administration.
We will work with President Trump and Congress to pass the First Amendment Defense Act (FADA), which Mr. Trump supports. FADA is critical legislation to protect people who believe in marriage from being targeted by the government for persecution."
It’s unknown whether Trump would follow through with any of these actions. Although Trump had a reputation for being a relatively pro-LGBT candidate among other Republicans, he said he opposes marriage equality, would rescind the Obama administration actions he thinks are unconstitutional and would sign the First Amendment Defense Act into law. ...
Has anyone mentioned yet that the president-elect vowed to overturn the Supreme Court decision (http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/nov/03/hillary-clinton/hillary-clinton-says-donald-trump-wants-undo-marri/) that allowed gays to marry nationwide? Unless I'm living in bizarro world, vowing to strip legal rights from gays (very hard-fought rights, I might add) is a pretty strong indicator of being against gay rights.
Quote from: Hydra009 on November 12, 2016, 01:23:01 AM
Has anyone mentioned yet that the president-elect vowed to overturn the Supreme Court decision (http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/nov/03/hillary-clinton/hillary-clinton-says-donald-trump-wants-undo-marri/) that allowed gays to marry nationwide? Unless I'm living in bizarro world, vowing to strip legal rights from gays (very hard-fought rights, I might add) is a pretty strong indicator of being against gay rights.
I still sense Trump's stance on LGBT issues is based on expedience and could be swayed by popular opinion. Pence's stance appears to be based on his moral convictions as a Christian and less amenable to persuasion.
Unfortunately, the danger for LGBTQ people right now is more immediate than the safety of equality of marriage.
A very big group of republicans who voted for Trump doesn't really care about the legal rights of LGBTQ people; they don't even think they should have legal rights. LGBTQ issues are a general category the Republican culture is against in principle and this is not going to change, because a fickle, slimy salesman like Trump made a positive speech BEFORE he sat in the chair.
People don't work that way. People who are likely to abuse and commit hate crimes will feel more free and entitled to it just because there is a republican president.
There are things Trump can do though. He should make sound speeches to take attention to hate crimes of any sort and strongly put an emphasis to 'the whole America, all Americans; LGBTQ and other groups are Americans' trying to neutralise that ready sense of destructive entitlement. This would help a lot. (He should do this about Muslims, Hispanics and any other groups.)
But...if he goes and makes a U turn which he did about a lot of things, including LGBTQ people, than it would be bad EVEN if he didn't try to abolish legality of marriage equality. What is on paper doesn't make much difference in that case.
Muslims have a saying: If the imam farts, the community shits. The tendency in the streets are really now about Trump's attitude. Her should call for unity for all groups, until his throat explodes. This will benefit him and everyone too.
Quote from: Hydra009 on November 12, 2016, 01:23:01 AM
Has anyone mentioned yet that the president-elect vowed to overturn the Supreme Court decision (http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/nov/03/hillary-clinton/hillary-clinton-says-donald-trump-wants-undo-marri/) that allowed gays to marry nationwide? Unless I'm living in bizarro world, vowing to strip legal rights from gays (very hard-fought rights, I might add) is a pretty strong indicator of being against gay rights.
He kept making U turns. Actually, there was an article on that comparing all his statements on the issue.
On the other hand, how is this still an issue in the country, I don't even get that. Actually, that tells a lot more than what politician thinks on it.
Quote from: Shiranu on November 11, 2016, 06:04:53 PM
It takes two words to refute that concept; Mike Pence.
Edit: Wow, her argument is that fighting ISIS means he isn't a threat to gay rights. Brilliant.
I got two more, Ben Carson.
This is why I reject Identity Politics ... atomizing the electorate into special interest groups, and trying to place a different minority in charge of the majority because of magic pixie dust ... to PC quote Lincoln ..
A government of the left-handed Polish American bisexuals ... by the left-handed Polish American bisexuals ... for the left-handed Polish American bisexuals ... and left-handed Polish American bisexuals ... swallow this cadswallop hook line and sinker.
ll politics is "identity politics". Just depends on how large you consider your identity.
Quote from: Cavebear on November 13, 2016, 03:49:09 AM
ll politics is "identity politics". Just depends on how large you consider your identity.
You are in the Matrix, you only vote for fellow bears. But the intent is to separate the Brown bears from the Grizzlies.
Quote from: GSOgymrat on November 12, 2016, 01:47:16 AMI still sense Trump's stance on LGBT issues is based on expedience and could be swayed by popular opinion.
Possibly. Though historically, I'm sure a lot of people learned the hard way that their leader did intend on carrying out extreme positions that he proposed prior to taking office. Imo the safest assumption is to take him at his word and be pleasantly surprised should he waffle on it rather than to assume he's not serious and get one hell of a rude awakening.
Many evil people/organizations try to co-opt every new administration ... it works for Rs as much as for Ds. There are trillions of dollars at stake, and for some, control of the planet. This doesn't attract Harvey Milktoast like characters. Just last week, about 1 trillion dollars in investments changed hands already, because of the election ... some lost money, others made money. If you aren't making money off of all of this, you aren't in the Elite.
If that triggers someone, then get your snowflake self out of the kitchen, and your failure self out of your parent's basement. Liberals failed in an election ... they can blame everyone except themselves. The Conservatives failed similarly in 2008. Did they blame everyone except themselves? ... i think they did. The RNC was as flaccid as an old man without viagra. The result is Trump. When the Liberals fail to self-examine ... what kind of horror will they nominate in 2020 or 2024?
One last thing to point out: the Log Cabin Republicans did not endorse Trump (http://www.washingtonblade.com/2016/10/22/log-cabin-to-withhold-endorsement-from-trump-sources/) even though they endorsed McCain and Romney.
McCain supported Arizona's and California's constitutional amendments to ban gay marriage (the Arizona one failed btw). Romney supported a federal constitutional ban on gay marriage and vowed to nominate Supreme Court justices who "reject the idea our Founding Fathers inserted a right to gay marriage into our Constitution."
So what makes Trump so singularly awful that he can't clear even the astonishingly low bar that the Log Cabin Republicans hold Republicans to?
"As Mr. Trump spoke positively about the LGBT community in the United States, he concurrently surrounded himself with senior advisors with a record of opposing LGBT equality and committed himself to supporting legislation such as the so-called ‘First Amendment Defense Act’ that Log Cabin Republicans opposes.â€
Lag Cabin Republicans? Like in the new Stepford Wives movie, where the gay man isn't turned into a fembot, but a Republican?
Gay Republicans are quislings. All gays should be Democrats and all Democrats should be gay ;-) Identity politics, works every time!
Quote from: Hydra009 on November 13, 2016, 11:39:01 AM
Possibly. Though historically, I'm sure a lot of people learned the hard way that their leader did intend on carrying out extreme positions that he proposed prior to taking office. Imo the safest assumption is to take him at his word and be pleasantly surprised should he waffle on it rather than to assume he's not serious and get one hell of a rude awakening.
I fully expect same-sex marriage to be overturned and religious liberty laws to be passed. I'm not sure whether gays will be barred from military service again. I don't think Trump will really push for these changes but his followers and advisors will.
PS- I just saw this online today. I can't guarantee it's veracity.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CxLtXmDXcAAvBE9.jpg:large)
Quote from: GSOgymrat on November 13, 2016, 07:49:16 PM
I fully expect same-sex marriage to be overturned and religious liberty laws to be passed. I'm not sure whether gays will be barred from military service again. I don't think Trump will really push for these changes but his followers and advisors will.
PS- I just saw this online today. I can't guarantee it's veracity.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CxLtXmDXcAAvBE9.jpg:large)
Just got done watching that interview. It was old-school, left-leaning Trump speaking and very encouraging. Dare I say it... he was actually likeable in it. If only we could figure out a way to get him stuck in that mindset.
Quote from: GSOgymrat on November 13, 2016, 07:49:16 PM
I fully expect same-sex marriage to be overturned and religious liberty laws to be passed. I'm not sure whether gays will be barred from military service again. I don't think Trump will really push for these changes but his followers and advisors will.
PS- I just saw this online today. I can't guarantee it's veracity.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CxLtXmDXcAAvBE9.jpg:large)
This gives me hope that he may not be as bad a President as I thought he would be. I'm more afraid of the other Republicans right now, who have near full power of the government until at least the midterm elections.
Quote from: GSOgymrat on November 13, 2016, 07:49:16 PMPS- I just saw this online today. I can't guarantee it's veracity.
That's encouraging, but he said the opposite to his Republican crowd. So he's deceiving one group and being honest with another. But which one?
Also, what else is he dishonest about? What's genuine about this guy and what's just an act?
Quote from: GSOgymrat on November 13, 2016, 07:49:16 PM
PS- I just saw this online today. I can't guarantee it's veracity.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CxLtXmDXcAAvBE9.jpg:large)
One of the worst thing Trump is scared right now is that his name being pronounced with violence rising with him winning the election against LGBTQ people.
He'll probably make similar comments about migrants and other minorities. This one is the easiest because as he says it is something already decided. He needs to calm down the country and gurantee safety. call for unity...etc. He is a politician and he seems to start with the usual 101 politics. We didn't expect him to throw threats and obscene remarks around after winning anyway.
This is a very normal, generic -as much as the politics in general go- beginning at his side.
He is the president of United States of America now, he cannot afford to be a jackass.
E: There is no one benefit in acting against the marriage issue right now. On the countrary, much benefit in supporting it.
Quote from: Hydra009 on November 13, 2016, 08:48:34 PM
That's encouraging, but he said the opposite to his Republican crowd. So he's deceiving one group and being honest with another. But which one?
Also, what else is he dishonest about? What's genuine about this guy and what's just an act?
Then don't elect politicians ... or marketeers (his primary business is his branding).
Der Pussengräber lies about everything. There's no telling what he's going to do. And I'm sure he's listening to the cretins around him, too.
Quote from: Baruch on November 14, 2016, 06:36:25 AMThen don't elect politicians ... or marketeers (his primary business is his branding).
Most politicians' lies are easy to spot. For example, Hillary will visit a community college and shower the hosts with excessive flattery, maintain the exceptional greatness of America, and recount how an anonymous American voter came up to her and expressed alarm about the divisive character of her opponent.
Trump, on the other hand, is the kind of guy who would lie about what he's making for dinner. There's just no telling what we're in for when he takes office.
Whatever ... it is going to be YUUGE! Not a good thing if it is a hemorrhoid ;-(
I'm fine with lgbt rights as long as we can stop taking extreme positions or positions that are perceived extreme by the general public such as the bathroom issues for trans people. Look, I could really care less who is in the next stall, but when the opposition party tries to make this a big issue it's a sure fire loser on election days. No party can make every single person happy, but these types of issues turn voters off right into the lap of the other side.
Quote from: SGOS on November 11, 2016, 06:31:00 PM
Trump doesn't seem like LGBT is a big issue for him. He will be lobbied by the GOP to oppose it. I've no idea what he will do.
It doesn't have to be an issue for him. He has enough people he picked as part of his cabinet (and also Pence) that have enough issue with it.
Quote from: AllPurposeAtheist on November 14, 2016, 02:07:28 PMI'm fine with lgbt rights as long as we can stop taking extreme positions or positions that are perceived extreme by the general public
Everything left of W Bush appears extreme to some of these jackoffs. Whenever conservative media luminaries like Alex Jones and Pat Robertson start banging the war drums on something (like trans bathrooms), their thralls are going to toe the line. It's unfortunate, but there's nothing we can do about it.
Instead of the going right when the going gets tough (a strategy that has arguably been hurting the Dems), we should focus on mobilizing the base. Despite the results, voters are becoming more liberal on social issues (http://www.gallup.com/poll/183386/social-ideology-left-catches-right.aspx). The problem is getting these people to be more politically active. We do that by fielding candidates that liberals are enthusiastic about, advancing issues that liberals consider important, etc. If and when Americans get fed up with the alt-right circus and start hitting the ballot box with a vengeance, it's game over for the Republicans.
Quote from: Hydra009 on November 13, 2016, 08:48:34 PM
That's encouraging, but he said the opposite to his Republican crowd. So he's deceiving one group and being honest with another. But which one?
Also, what else is he dishonest about? What's genuine about this guy and what's just an act?
To answer that you need to ask yourself one question; What day is it?
Quote from: Shiranu on November 13, 2016, 08:25:34 PM
Just got done watching that interview. It was old-school, left-leaning Trump speaking and very encouraging. Dare I say it... he was actually likeable in it. If only we could figure out a way to get him stuck in that mindset.
The problem is that Trump seems to only pay attention to the last person who talked to him.