I wonder what America will look like in fifty years.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcKT5TFkfrE
Good.
Quote from: GSOgymrat on October 19, 2016, 03:20:05 PM
I wonder what America will look like in fifty years.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcKT5TFkfrE
Well once we were all colonial Englishmen. Then there were French from Canada. I suppose we went to Hell in a hndbasket then. Oh wait, we managed.
Then there were Germans who came over. They were considered vermin. Oh wait, we survived THAT too.
So it must have been ruined when the Irish came. Oh wait, they turned out to be fine citizens after a couple of generations. So The US must have been ruined later.
Yeah, when thos Italians arrived, that must be when we lost the country. Hmm, but they turned out OK.
BTW, were any of your ancestors one of "THEM"? Hope not maybe you should go back where you came from!
Etc, etc, etc.
Every group that ever came here fit in after a couple of hard generations' work. And it will be the same way in the future.
Have you noticed that the political polls don't even HAVE a sub-group for us "original englishmen" any more. I think that one went out about, oh 1850...
And even some of us "original" colonists aren't Protestant either. My Dad was a vague "deist", my Mother was Catholic, my sister was sort of Earth Motherist, and I'm an atheist. You don't like that, come burn a cross on my front lawn and we'll discuss it. In fact if you want to discuss original religion, maybe you should talk to a Native American. I can probably find one.
I hope you get my point...
This is good, but I'm not overly optimistic. Sure, the reign of Christianity over US laws should be celebrated, but the end of one tyranny leaves open room for another. DarkMatter had a video on the subject. In a hypothetical future where religion becomes extinct, what will happen? DarkMatter argues that dogma is the root of the issue, not religion itself. Without religion, dogma will remain. It will outlast religion, and it will continue to make problems for us.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dspHj0Cj2-g
For example of a destructive dogma: http://eagnews.org/high-schooler-records-teachers-racism-lecture-to-be-white-is-to-be-racist-period/
I'm Irish on my parents' side of the family. Eight couples left the same small town in the middle of the night and changed their names on Ellis Island.
Quote from: Cavebear on October 19, 2016, 03:57:58 PM
Well once we were all colonial Englishmen. Then there were French from Canada. I suppose we went to Hell in a hndbasket then. Oh wait, we managed.
Then there were Germans who came over. They were considered vermin. Oh wait, we survived THAT too.
So it must have been ruined when the Irish came. Oh wait, they turned out to be fine citizens after a couple of generations. So The US must have been ruined later.
Yeah, when thos Italians arrived, that must be when we lost the country. Hmm, but they turned out OK.
BTW, were any of your ancestors one of "THEM"? Hope not maybe you should go back where you came from!
Etc, etc, etc.
Every group that ever came here fit in after a couple of hard generations' work. And it will be the same way in the future.
Have you noticed that the political polls don't even HAVE a sub-group for us "original englishmen" any more. I think that one went out about, oh 1850...
And even some of us "original" colonists aren't Protestant either. My Dad was a vague "deist", my Mother was Catholic, my sister was sort of Earth Motherist, and I'm an atheist. You don't like that, come burn a cross on my front lawn and we'll discuss it. In fact if you want to discuss original religion, maybe you should talk to a Native American. I can probably find one.
I hope you get my point...
Technically the English were the second wave. Third if you want to count the Norse. In any case the Spanish were in North America before the English.
The Norse were a ripple.
Quote from: Cavebear on October 19, 2016, 03:57:58 PM
Then there were Germans who came over. They were considered vermin. Oh wait, we survived THAT too.
Well...
Trump's (Drumpf) ancestors came over from Germany.
So... it is still a bit premature to say we survived that.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on October 19, 2016, 06:17:15 PM
The Norse were a ripple.
Ripple is probably an overstatement too, but they were here.
Quote from: PopeyesPappy on October 19, 2016, 07:35:33 PM
Ripple is probably an overstatement too, but they were here.
Well, there is that church in Greenland, evidence that they hung around this hemisphere for a few centuries, in whatever numbers.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on October 19, 2016, 06:17:15 PM
The Norse were a ripple.
More like a mead ... I don't think they had cheap wine ;-)
Thank the Lord.
Fortunately once we are past family and society, we can individually do anything ... is that a good thing?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRdfX7ut8gw
Y'all Gentiles can kiss my kosher tuches ;-)
Good. I was brought up with the idea that America is about diversity, and I abhor this "culture war" being waged against my country by white conservative Christians. They think they are America. They are NOT the America I grew up in.
This is another reason why I want to see Trump and the Republicans go down in flames. I want them to lose the culture war they started.
Urban sophisticate? You will always be a minority in any society. But not a bad minority.
I imagine white Christians will have a seat at the table instead of creating the guest list and seating chart.
Quote from: GSOgymrat on October 20, 2016, 06:40:16 AM
I imagine white Christians will have a seat at the table instead of creating the guest list and seating chart.
Not for the Progressives, for them the white Christians will be invited to dinner, because they are on the menu
Quote from: Baruch on October 20, 2016, 07:07:50 AM
Not for the Progressives, for them the white Christians will be invited to dinner, because they are on the menu
That's until white Christians are genuinely perceived as oppressed, then Progressives will grant them their moral currency.
Quote from: GSOgymrat on October 20, 2016, 07:15:22 AM
That's until white Christians are genuinely perceived as oppressed, then Progressives will grant them their moral currency.
BitCoin? More Monopoly money won't help ... it is part of the problem ... or do you mean the false coin of self righteousness?
Quote from: Atheon on October 19, 2016, 09:18:32 PM
Good. I was brought up with the idea that America is about diversity, and I abhor this "culture war" being waged against my country by white conservative Christians. They think they are America. They are NOT the America I grew up in.
This is another reason why I want to see Trump and the Republicans go down in flames. I want them to lose the culture war they started.
I generally agree, but the overbearing conservative Christian influence is exactly the America I grew up in. Not everyone, but it was a depressingly common perspective. I remember when D&D was demonized and when Magic the Gathering was viewed as satanic (http://www.nytimes.com/1995/11/26/nyregion/bedford-s-struggle-with-the-devil.html?pagewanted=all) (and the company revised a card with an pentagram on it (http://mtgsalvation.gamepedia.com/Unholy_Strength) because it offended Christian groups)
This nonsense has long been a part of America. It is to my great relief that its influence is steadily waning.
White christian America..It's like saying the bubble gum I chew tastes best because the label says so..
Quote from: Hydra009 on October 20, 2016, 09:26:38 AM
I generally agree, but the overbearing conservative Christian influence is exactly the America I grew up in. Not everyone, but it was a depressingly common perspective. I remember when D&D was demonized and when Magic the Gathering was viewed as satantic (http://www.nytimes.com/1995/11/26/nyregion/bedford-s-struggle-with-the-devil.html?pagewanted=all) (and the company revised a card with an pentagram on it (http://mtgsalvation.gamepedia.com/Unholy_Strength) because it offended Christian groups)
This nonsense has long been a part of America. It is to my great relief that its influence is steadily waning.
Everything is evil to Christian evangelicals. I remember when my grandparents were trying to convince me to throw out my Harry Potter books.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgFWtK2AoPk
Goodbye white amurica *snif* we had a good run....
Blue pill takers hate the Red pill takers ... go figure!
I find the video very highly politically correct which takes a basic mechanism of demographics and then interpret it with an ongoing minor tendency reflected in the mainstream social media -which belongs to a certain white minority by the way- beyond its scope. The video is basically up there with 'science reporting on cancer in the media' that gives scientists cancer itself, whenever every little experiment and tiny positive observation is declared as 'they cured cancer!'. Same deal.
White Christian America is not just a very large group of white religious people in numbers with a dream of living in a Rockwell painting. It's the dominant culture of America and it is determined by distribution of wealth, power, as well as domestic and international policies which was established very long time ago. It's the machine itself. Every identity politics, cultural hegemony, order of classes, the economy itself is shaped and labeled according to this culture. That's the culture that defines the hierarchy of all things.
Yeah there has been a struggle going on for a long time against this culture, but reaching an end? No, not even remotely close.
What would it take for America to reach an end of White Christian Era? Here are a few crazy ideas.
-Proper prosecution of war criminals from Bush to top military personnnel, contractors and so on. All the illegal trafficking between the ME and the US during and after invasions. A proper investigation about 'tactics' and 'strategies' followed. (Acknowledgment of other crimes commited by the old governmnets is important too.)
-Recogniton of Mesoamerican genocide and other atrocities commited by the governments and other war crimes around the world commited by the US soldiers and members of the army.
-Investigation of drone attacks and US arms trade in the ME.
-Closing the Guantanamo Bay Detention Center.
-Investigating and prosecuting blatant racist bias in juicidal system
-Investigating massive world wide scale frauds in Wall Street and actually prosecuting people.
-Diminishing and crippling the basics relationship with capitalist manipulation of politics -which is unprecedented and has no other example in the world.
-Fighting against the incredible gap between white rich and the ordinary people.
-Churches paying taxes.
-Investigating all churches, private cults and every religious organisation and school and enforce taxes. (No that is not religious freedom.)
-Actual prosecution of the Vatican personnel for any crimes.
None of it is ever gonna happen. It's collapsing the America as we know from head to toe. So the White Christian America is perfectly right, the ugly truth that it is their culture that is the basic American culture. And these are just a tiny few things for starters. Reaching an end would come after the culture has been transformed during generations. Loooong after a lot of fundamental changes established.
Do you know how many black billionaires are there in the whole world among thousands and thousands? Around 10-11. Among that -minus retired NBA basketball players- America's wealth is owned by the white christians. I am guessing everyone has an idea of what does America's wealth mean, along with owning that wealth in the world.
While none of those things are going to happen^ even when the demography changed in a very long time, the 'White Christian Culture' will continue with its nonwhite counterpart. For White Christian America to end, nonwhite groups should stop with small scale crimes and commit world scale massive frauds, steal billions of dollars, invade the government and become the 'White Christian America' themselves.
:arrow: Without actually resolving certain issues, collapsing the system as we know, creating a new culture from those resolutions, transforming generations, you just pass the same flag to another demographics with a different colour. And the 'White Christian American Culture' doesn't end.
Quote from: drunkenshoe on October 21, 2016, 05:45:28 AM
I find the video very highly politically correct which takes a basic mechanism of demographics and then interpret it with an ongoing minor tendency reflected in the mainstream social media -which belongs to a certain white minority by the way- beyond its scope. The video is basically up there with 'science reporting on cancer in the media' that gives scientists cancer itself, whenever every little experiment and tiny positive observation is declared as 'they cured cancer!'. Same deal.
White Christian America is not just a very large group of white religious people in numbers with a dream of living in a Rockwell painting. It's the dominant culture of America and it is determined by distribution of wealth, power, as well as domestic and international policies which was established very long time ago. It's the machine itself. Every identity politics, cultural hegemony, order of classes, the economy itself is shaped and labeled according to this culture. That's the culture that defines the hierarchy of all things.
Yeah there has been a struggle going on for a long time against this culture, but reaching an end? No, not even remotely close.
What would it take for America to reach an end of White Christian Era? Here are a few crazy ideas.
-Proper prosecution of war criminals from Bush to top military personnnel, contractors and so on. All the illegal trafficking between the ME and the US during and after invasions. A proper investigation about 'tactics' and 'strategies' followed. (Acknowledgment of other crimes commited by the old governmnets is important too.)
-Recogniton of Mesoamerican genocide and other atrocities commited by the governments and other war crimes around the world commited by the US soldiers and members of the army.
-Investigation of drone attacks and US arms trade in the ME.
-Closing the Guantanamo Bay Detention Center.
-Investigating and prosecuting blatant racist bias in juicidal system
-Investigating massive world wide scale frauds in Wall Street and actually prosecuting people.
-Diminishing and crippling the basics relationship with capitalist manipulation of politics -which is unprecedented and has no other example in the world.
-Fighting against the incredible gap between white rich and the ordinary people.
-Churches paying taxes.
-Investigating all churches, private cults and every religious organisation and school and enforce taxes. (No that is not religious freedom.)
-Actual prosecution of the Vatican personnel for any crimes.
None of it is ever gonna happen. It's collapsing the America as we know from head to toe. So the White Christian America is perfectly right, the ugly truth that it is their culture that is the basic American culture. And these are just a tiny few things for starters. Reaching an end would come after the culture has been transformed during generations. Loooong after a lot of fundamental changes established.
Do you know how many black billionaires are there in the whole world among thousands and thousands? Around 10-11. Among that -minus retired NBA basketball players- America's wealth is owned by the white christians. I am guessing everyone has an idea of what does America's wealth mean, along with owning that wealth in the world.
While none of those things are going to happen^ even when the demography changed in a very long time, the 'White Christian Culture' will continue with its nonwhite counterpart. For White Christian America to end, nonwhite groups should stop with small scale crimes and commit world scale massive frauds, steal billions of dollars, invade the government and become the 'White Christian America' themselves.
:arrow: Without actually resolving certain issues, collapsing the system as we know, creating a new culture from those resolutions, transforming generations, you just pass the same flag to another demographics with a different colour. And the 'White Christian American Culture' doesn't end.
Agreed, and it seems obvious. White Christian America is more than just a question of population balance. It's a 200+ year legacy of attitudes and behaviors that have defined our national identity and the attitude of our government. Just because white christians stop being the overwhelming majority doesn't mean that America will quickly transform into something else. It's very likely that whatever demographic replaces them will simply pick up where they left off culturally, influenced heavily by the rich who remain mostly white and Christian.
The only good thing about this is that now there is a possibility of meaningful change, though it will be a long way off.
I expect that, regardless of demographics, the ideals of the US Constitution and US traditions of democracy will continue. And if it doesn't, the racists and ethnicaphobes will be proven right.
But I won't be around by then and it won't be my concern. Human culture has gone through cycles of democracy, kingdoms, minor dukedoms, and anarchy. A period of insane political structures would not be new. But it is one we probably would not recover from. It is unlikely that a new industrial possibly space-going society could be rebuild, given that we have mined all the surface minerals.
Quote from: Cavebear on October 22, 2016, 02:03:43 AM
I expect that, regardless of demographics, the ideals of the US Constitution and US traditions of democracy will continue. And if it doesn't, the racists and ethnicaphobes will be proven right.
But I won't be around by then and it won't be my concern. Human culture has gone through cycles of democracy, kingdoms, minor dukedoms, and anarchy. A period of insane political structures would not be new. But it is one we probably would not recover from. It is unlikely that a new industrial possibly space-going society could be rebuild, given that we have mined all the surface minerals.
Civilization was built on cheap hydrocarbons ... won't happen again for 100 million years ... gotta get a whole other set of dinosaurs to give their lives for Exxon. Progress wasn't free, and we didn't pay was we went, but took advantage of freebees. Future generations get to pay for the freebees. Biblical ... the fathers eat sour grapes and the children's teeth are set on edge ;-(
Fewer humans would be a good thing, IMNSHO.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on October 24, 2016, 06:06:15 AM
Fewer humans would be a good thing, IMNSHO.
OK. Let's start with you, I'll be the second I
promise. You have the necessary technology. Take yourself out please. :lol:
Just a matter of Fukushima radiation making all human sterile. Until then, enjoy your glow in the dark water.
Quote from: drunkenshoe on October 24, 2016, 06:27:24 AM
OK. Let's start with you, I'll be the second I promise. You have the necessary technology. Take yourself out please. :lol:
I've flat-lined at least three times. My mother had TWO telegrams in a frame, both advising I was KIA-BNR. I wouldn't be easy for ME to kill.
But to point up some limited thinking, why not just reproduce less often?
Quote from: Nonsensei on October 21, 2016, 06:38:22 AM
Agreed, and it seems obvious. White Christian America is more than just a question of population balance. It's a 200+ year legacy of attitudes and behaviors that have defined our national identity and the attitude of our government. Just because white christians stop being the overwhelming majority doesn't mean that America will quickly transform into something else. It's very likely that whatever demographic replaces them will simply pick up where they left off culturally, influenced heavily by the rich who remain mostly white and Christian.
The only good thing about this is that now there is a possibility of meaningful change, though it will be a long way off.
And what exactly would be meaningful change? I've been around the world some, and I haven't seen any other culture that's better, and most are worse, by far. Europe was pretty good 20+ years ago, but even the lauded Scandinavian countries are falling apart theses days. There's a reason why people are flocking to the west; it's because it's a great place to live, even with those pesky white people.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on October 24, 2016, 07:01:18 AM
I've flat-lined at least three times. My mother had TWO telegrams in a frame, both advising I was KIA-BNR. I wouldn't be easy for ME to kill.
But to point up some limited thinking, why not just reproduce less often?
Yeah I defintely agree on that.
A few billion fewer of us would be good for humanity overall. And the planet. I'm not suggesting a sudden change...