TJ and co. fire a broadside at the obnoxious assholes who like doing the "QUESTIONS [insert group here] HAVE FOR CIS WHITE MEN." And it is epic.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4lFSq_Efzk
I thought Martin Hughes did a good job of giving reasoned responses to the questions.
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/barrierbreaker/27-answers-to-27-ignorant-questions-some-white-guys-had-for-thinking-people/
Sad to see Cult of Dusty is an "anti-SJW", he is one of the few atheist channels that entertained me. Then again, haven't watched one of his videos in years so... apparently not too entertained.
Quote from: GSOgymrat on July 15, 2016, 04:47:35 PM
I thought Martin Hughes did a good job of giving reasoned responses to the questions.
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/barrierbreaker/27-answers-to-27-ignorant-questions-some-white-guys-had-for-thinking-people/
Yes. Ive read up to the racism question and so far hes done an excellent job of moving the goalposts, altering the playing ground, muddying the waters, or simply outright misunderstanding the question.
Actually he spends a lot of time accusing the questions of being vague or incomprehensible. I understood exactly what every question was asking.
Quote from: GSOgymrat on July 15, 2016, 04:47:35 PM
I thought Martin Hughes did a good job of giving reasoned responses to the questions.
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/barrierbreaker/27-answers-to-27-ignorant-questions-some-white-guys-had-for-thinking-people/
That article is the only ignorant part in it. I love this quote right near the start:
QuoteI need to see examples to figure out what they’re talking about.
That's exactly the kind of shit this video is parodying. This is what these very YouTubers ask when responding to every single one of these "QUESTIONS [insert group here] HAVE FOR CIS WHITE MEN" videos.
I realize the video is a parody but I appreciated that Martin Hughes decided to respond to the questions seriously because it gave me an idea of how people who consider themselves socially conscious think. I haven't seen any videos where someone like TJ (who I can't stand) and Martin Hughes (who I can't stand) sit down and have a calm, rational conversation of ideas and philosophy. If anyone can link a video of two or more experts in each of these philosophies is sitting down together in person having a reasonable discussion I would appreciate it.
Quote from: Martin HughesI think that a “safe space†is sometimes necessary for understanding some marginalized groups. What happens outside of that “safe space� Those marginalized in culture have to put on masks, pretend that things don’t bother them that do, and try to follow social expectations that silence their honest views and expression of their experiences.
I find it very hard to believe that women, minorities, and LGBT people are so oppressed in the West that they have to "silence their honest views". Certainly, the SJW community that claims to fight on their behalf has no problems being vocal.
QuoteIf this is in reference to “safe spaces†at universities â€" that’s complicated. I think universities are marketplaces of ideas, so on the one hand I think several ideas and honest exchanges should be encouraged.
There's nothing complicated about it. He just gave the exact reason why ideological safe spaces shouldn't exist. They're just echo chambers. Their only purpose is to incubate ideologies that couldn't survive an honest exchange of ideas.
QuoteIt is racist, in a matter of speaking, when a black person tweets “kill all white people†â€" but if that tweet is not ensuring that white people continue to be treated like second-class citizens, it is not racist according to the sociological definition.
It's not racist in a matter of speaking. It's racist. Full stop. It's a textbook example of racism, of course it's racist.
It's bizarre how one can show SJWs blatantly racist stuff and they'll only declare it racist if the perpetrators are white people. Some of these people even go so far as to say that racism against white people is impossible (http://sjwmadness.tumblr.com/post/112687429764/royalluberyl-allyoudidwillbeundone). (the original image had a white woman shooting herself in the head with the caption "what white people can do to help blacks")
Are these people against racism in its totality or only some forms of racism? If it's the latter, they're just mirror images of the racists they condemn.
QuoteWe don’t think anyone is born racist. And yes, racism IS a learned behavior.
He's better than some of his SJW peers there. Congrats on that.
But some SJWs do in fact hold that position (http://nypost.com/2016/07/01/elite-k-8-school-teaches-white-students-theyre-born-racist/).
Quote from: GSOgymrat on July 15, 2016, 05:39:32 PMIf anyone can link a video of two or more experts in each of these philosophies is sitting down together in person having a reasonable discussion I would appreciate it.
Good luck with that. The Bible Reloaded invited Milo Yiannopoulos onto their show for exactly that sort of talk, and the Steve Shives crowd immediately denounced them for being anti-SJW. Then there was "The Triggering" at U-Mass not that long ago which included Christina Hoff Sommers along with Milo and some other dude, and Hoff (an actual feminist scholar and former professor of philosophy) was immediately denounced by the SocJus crowd for daring to speak at this event.
Basically, if you are not 100% toeing the party line then you will be shunned, end of story. There is no pleasing these people. They want capitulation, not discussion.
Quote from: Hydra009 on July 15, 2016, 07:11:40 PM
I find it very hard to believe that women, minorities, and LGBT people are so oppressed in the West that they have to "silence their honest views". Certainly, the SJW community that claims to fight on their behalf has no problems being vocal.
There's nothing complicated about it. He just gave the exact reason why ideological safe spaces shouldn't exist. They're just echo chambers. Their only purpose is to incubate ideologies that couldn't survive an honest exchange of ideas.
It's not racist in a matter of speaking. It's racist. Full stop. It's a textbook example of racism, of course it's racist.
It's bizarre how one can show SJWs blatantly racist stuff and they'll only declare it racist if the perpetrators are white people. Some of these people even go so far as to say that racism against white people is impossible (http://sjwmadness.tumblr.com/post/112687429764/royalluberyl-allyoudidwillbeundone). (the original image had a white woman shooting herself in the head with the caption "what white people can do to help blacks")
Are these people against racism in its totality or only some forms of racism? If it's the latter, they're just mirror images of the racists they condemn.
He's better than some of his SJW peers there. Congrats on that.
But some SJWs do in fact hold that position (http://nypost.com/2016/07/01/elite-k-8-school-teaches-white-students-theyre-born-racist/).
It's bizarre how a person who is not a member of a certain group professes to know what life is like for members of a certain group.
Quote from: Mermaid on July 15, 2016, 07:32:39 PM
It's bizarre how a person who is not a member of a certain group professes to know what life is like for members of a certain group.
Life as a man is the hardest thing imaginable. As a woman, you are not allowed to refute my statement, because you don't know what life is like for me.
When you're making a statement like that, try and make sure it doesn't cut both ways. It opens the door for folks like me to start being smartasses.
Quote from: Hijiri Byakuren on July 15, 2016, 07:24:04 PM
Basically, if you are not 100% toeing the party line then you will be shunned, end of story. There is no pleasing these people. They want capitulation, not discussion.
I'm new to Twitter and commented on an article regarding identity politics, race and privilege stating that I preferred to focus on commonalities rather than differences when addressing conflicts. I thought this was a pretty innocuous statement but some woman jumped all over me. She sent six or seven replies saying I didn't care about black or gay people, lacked empathy, that I was a men's right activist and implied that I was racist. All this over ONE tweet. I've learned that I really don't care for Twitter, particularly because I find it difficult to say anything meaningful in 140 characters.
Quote from: Mermaid on July 15, 2016, 07:32:39 PM
It's bizarre how a person who is not a member of a certain group professes to know what life is like for members of a certain group.
(http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/995/415/b30.jpg)
I never claimed to know what life is like for women or minorities, I simply expressed doubt that they're oppressed in the West to the point of having to silence themselves and thus require a safe space.
Quote from: Mermaid on July 15, 2016, 07:32:39 PM
It's bizarre how a person who is not a member of a certain group professes to know what life is like for members of a certain group.
Isnt the entire underpinning ot SJW rhetoric all about how white males are so insanely privileged?
I guess its OK for them to assume stuff about people in other group. Its different when they do it. Right?
SJW's are mostly a product of the internet. What is always present is bias and attitude, what is mostly lacking is reasoned consideration of the whole picture. In any ideal society there would be no barriers of communication, no "not allowed" behavior and no need for safe spaces, which is a concept I really don't get. At the university/college level, open debate without reservation should be the norm, not something looked on with suspicion and continually being qualified in one way or another.
We have become so embroiled in political correctness and so shy of using certain buzzwords that trigger some form of retaliation. Ridiculous. Men and women in particular aren't communicating much better than they did in the 50's. And racism is still a front burner issue, which it shouldn't be.
Quote from: GSOgymrat on July 15, 2016, 07:54:16 PMI'm new to Twitter and commented on an article regarding identity politics, race and privilege stating that I preferred to focus on commonalities rather than differences when addressing conflicts. I thought this was a pretty innocuous statement but some woman jumped all over me. She sent six or seven replies saying I didn't care about black or gay people, lacked empathy, that I was a men's right activist and implied that I was racist. All this over ONE tweet. I've learned that I really don't care for Twitter, particularly because I find it difficult to say anything meaningful in 140 characters.
Yeah, and that's a common experience whenever one says something that doesn't toe the SJW line. It's terrible because most of us do want to stamp out prejudice and injustice, but this approach just divides communities rather than bring them together.
Quote from: Hijiri Byakuren on July 15, 2016, 07:48:31 PM
Life as a man is the hardest thing imaginable. As a woman, you are not allowed to refute my statement, because you don't know what life is like for me.
When you're making a statement like that, try and make sure it doesn't cut both ways. It opens the door for folks like me to start being smartasses.
Right. I am not arguing that life as a man isn't hard, because I don't know that. I've never been one. If you say so, I'll at the very least give you the benefit of the doubt.
Quote from: Hydra009 on July 15, 2016, 08:00:43 PM
(http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/995/415/b30.jpg)
I never claimed to know what life is like for women or minorities, I simply expressed doubt that they're oppressed in the West to the point of having to silence themselves and thus require a safe space.
I think the fact that you are denying any oppression is very strong evidence that you are claiming to know what life is like for women and minorities.
Quote from: Hydra009 on July 15, 2016, 08:16:13 PM
Yeah, and that's a common experience whenever one says something that doesn't toe the SJW line. It's terrible because most of us do want to stamp out prejudice and injustice, but this approach just divides communities rather than bring them together.
After the woman sent the replies I responded that she was making a lot of assumptions based on one sentence from a stranger, that we both wanted the same outcome and that she was alienating an ally. She said "Please read the article again" and thankfully didn't contact me again. I've noticed from other online conversations that with some people if you don't address social issues from a framework of identity politics and intersectionality they immediately disagree and deem all other perspectives invalid. I even been told unless I accepted identity politics I wasn't a real secular humanist. Social justice has been called the new secular religion and some people do seem to behave as though there are sacred values, holy doctrines, the faithful and the infidels.
Quote from: Mermaid on July 15, 2016, 08:32:56 PMI think the fact that you are denying any oppression is very strong evidence that you are claiming to know what life is like for women and minorities.
"denying any oppression" is not what I'm doing. Please read what I wrote rather than making false assumptions about it in order to condemn it. This sort of approach - twisting words in order to paint someone as a bigot in order to dismiss what they are saying - is a big part of the reason why SJWs have their current bad reputation.
When it comes to the experiences that black people have, I listen to what black people have to say.
When it comes to the experiences that women have, I listen to what women have to say.
When it comes to the experiences that gay people have, I listen to what gay people have to say.
Quote from: Atheon on July 15, 2016, 11:33:27 PM
When it comes to the experiences that black people have, I listen to what black people have to say.
When it comes to the experiences that women have, I listen to what women have to say.
When it comes to the experiences that gay people have, I listen to what gay people have to say.
Trust, but verify.
Quote from: Mermaid on July 15, 2016, 08:32:56 PM
I think the fact that you are denying any oppression is very strong evidence that you are claiming to know what life is like for women and minorities.
guess what? i'm white and i'm a minority
Quote from: GSOgymrat on July 15, 2016, 07:54:16 PM
I'm new to Twitter and commented on an article regarding identity politics, race and privilege stating that I preferred to focus on commonalities rather than differences when addressing conflicts. I thought this was a pretty innocuous statement but some woman jumped all over me. She sent six or seven replies saying I didn't care about black or gay people, lacked empathy, that I was a men's right activist and implied that I was racist. All this over ONE tweet. I've learned that I really don't care for Twitter, particularly because I find it difficult to say anything meaningful in 140 characters.
I've commented on News articles at Yahoo, and got same amazingly stupid replies. I don't do twitter. I know I shouldn't judge it by it's name, but "twittering" about things of importance sounds immensely shallow.
Quote from: Hydra009 on July 15, 2016, 08:49:06 PM
"denying any oppression" is not what I'm doing. Please read what I wrote rather than making false assumptions about it in order to condemn it. This sort of approach - twisting words in order to paint someone as a bigot in order to dismiss what they are saying - is a big part of the reason why SJWs have their current bad reputation.
Dude. Relax. I don't care to paint you as anything, it's not about you and I have no intent of twisting anything. I don't know that we are polar opposites on this issue.
Quote from: Atheon on July 15, 2016, 11:33:27 PM
When it comes to the experiences that black people have, I listen to what black people have to say.
When it comes to the experiences that women have, I listen to what women have to say.
When it comes to the experiences that gay people have, I listen to what gay people have to say.
This.
Here is a suggestion to the boys.
Find a standard forum. Nothing out of the oridnary, but a common one. Get a female nickname and talk about women issues in an easy going, sensible egalitarian way after saying 'I am a woman and I experience this...'.
Repeat the same experiment with saying 'I am a feminist' but never change the manner and the sensible material yuo are offering.
Then watch what is going on each time. May be that would give you some insight about the female side, SJW or not. Because as long as you are a female voicing something out loud about gender issues, it really doesn't matter what you think/say beyond that you are a female as reactions go. Experience it yourself.
This is the reason I like places where you can only be "text on a screen".
Bear with me; it doesn't matter what you are in real life, because the only thing that matters is the content of your writing.
For all you care, I'm a black midget lesbian or a white supremacist racist male. It does not matter. I'm just text on a screen, for all you care. This is truly what Martin Luther King jr. meant with living side by side and only be judged by the content of your character.
We have inevitably gotten off topic.
Quote from: Nonsensei on July 16, 2016, 10:30:31 AM
We have inevitably gotten off topic.
I am not sure I agree.
Quote from: Mermaid on July 16, 2016, 06:42:52 AMDude. Relax. I don't care to paint you as anything, it's not about you and I have no intent of twisting anything. I don't know that we are polar opposites on this issue.
You actually have, interpreting incredulity towards a pretty bold claim first as claiming to speak for other people and second as a denial of any oppression whatsoever. This is not a particularly subtle rephrasing of the argument as something far more objectionable than it actually is.
Hughes makes a pretty extraordinary claim. He claims that marginalized groups (like women, minorities, and LGBT) are oppressed to the point of self-censorship and needing to form safe spaces to express themselves freely.
Naturally, as anyone with a skeptical bent would, I'm not going to just take this on faith, I'm going to question the claim that more than half the population in Western countries - including my neighbors, my coworkers, my friends - "put on masks, pretend that things don’t bother them that do, and try to follow social expectations that silence their honest views and expression of their experiences" when they're in society at large. If true, this would be a truly massive conspiracy of silence and an honestly shocking revelation. It would be genuinely surprising to learn that women in Sweden or gays in Canada or black people in England can't express their honest views because of social expectations.
This narrative of intense, widespread, and enduring oppression of historically marginalized groups, even in countries that now have relatively progressive laws and attitudes is an oft-repeated SJW claim that if substantiated, would lend a lot of credibility to the SJW cause. Yet, I've never once seen this claim even attempted to be substantiated. Instead, this is something that you're just supposed to listen and believe. And if you express the slightest skepticism, you're a bigot. This reaction is very familiar from my religious days and a disappointingly irrational and dogmatic approach from people who would consider themselves to be the exact opposite.
QuoteIf true, this would be a truly massive conspiracy of silence and an honestly shocking revelation.
I don't see how that is shocking, since literally everyone does that to some extent when in society.
Quote from: Mermaid on July 15, 2016, 07:32:39 PM
It's bizarre how a person who is not a member of a certain group professes to know what life is like for members of a certain group.
Isn't that what feminism is?
Quote from: Hydra009 on July 16, 2016, 12:53:04 PM
Hughes makes a pretty extraordinary claim. He claims that marginalized groups (like women, minorities, and LGBT) are oppressed to the point of self-censorship and needing to form safe spaces to express themselves freely.
Naturally, as anyone with a skeptical bent would, I'm not going to just take this on faith, I'm going to question the claim that more than half the population in Western countries - including my neighbors, my coworkers, my friends - "put on masks, pretend that things don’t bother them that do, and try to follow social expectations that silence their honest views and expression of their experiences" when they're in society at large. If true, this would be a truly massive conspiracy of silence and an honestly shocking revelation. It would be genuinely surprising to learn that women in Sweden or gays in Canada or black people in England can't express their honest views because of social expectations.
Here is my take on "safe spaces." People need areas where they can come together and discuss common interests without being harassed or having to explain themselves. Support groups, churches, social clubs and forums like this one are examples. This atheist forum is moderated and although religious people participate they are banned if they are only here to proselytize or put down atheists. "Safe space" is an infantilizing term but this forum is a safe space for atheists. Based on what I have read, the problem with safe spaces on universities is that some people want classrooms, lectures and public presentations to be safe spaces for any minority. People like myself who believe in classic liberalism believe censoring ideas in classrooms, lectures and public presentations is not only unfeasible but damaging to the development of critical thought. It is self-censorship and avoidance behavior (I could go into a whole discussion as to why this trend is bad for mental health). The college classroom is a place where students should be physically safe but not safe from controversial or upsetting ideas. Do people need safe spaces? Yes. Should a college classroom be a safe space? No.
Quote from: PickelledEggs on July 16, 2016, 03:58:25 PM
Isn't that what feminism is?
No. I am curious as to why you'd think this.
@GSOgymrat You bring up a good point. I do agree that safe spaces should exist. A place where ideas can be discussed without being harassed. The problem I have with safe spaces is when the idea that a conflicting view is harassment, simply because it is not a view that someone else holds. These safe spaces have turned in to a place to coddle someone's fragility and stubbornness. Other than that part, I applaud the idea of a safe space, but if it's going to be something that bullies other ideas and shunning them in to a false incorrectness, it's something that needs to be changed.
Quote from: GSOgymrat on July 16, 2016, 03:59:55 PM
Here is my take on "safe spaces." People need areas where they can come together and discuss common interests without being harassed or having to explain themselves. Support groups, churches, social clubs and forums like this one are examples. This atheist forum is moderated and although religious people participate they are banned if they are only here to proselytize or put down atheists. "Safe space" is an infantilizing term but this forum is a safe space for atheists. Based on what I have read, the problem with safe spaces on universities is that some people want classrooms, lectures and public presentations to be safe spaces for any minority. People like myself who believe in classic liberalism believe censoring ideas in classrooms, lectures and public presentations is not only unfeasible but damaging to the development of critical thought. It is self-censorship and avoidance behavior (I could go into a whole discussion as to why this trend is bad for mental health). The college classroom is a place where students should be physically safe but not safe from controversial or upsetting ideas. Do people need safe spaces? Yes. Should a college classroom be a safe space? No.
Erudite.
Quote from: Mermaid on July 16, 2016, 04:13:47 PM
No. I am curious as to why you'd think this.
feminsim is an ideology that (in addition that dictates how women should act), assumes, implies, and makes rules about men, how men should act, how men should conduct themselves, etc. But at the same time, if a man says "I don't do those toxic things" or points out that women do these certain things too, or any input whatsoever, for the most part, the men get bullied out of the conversation. Ganged up on. "You, as a man, cannot understand what it is like. blah blah blah." . i.e. the objectification of women/men. (Both parties do it and it's not necessarily a bad thing to do)
It's like when that term man-splaining came along. whoever came up with that term can go fuck herself. What about how that woman, in the same article woman-splained to men? I can't even find the article because once it was coined, feminists have jumped on it and the entire internet is littered with the term. Feminists assume that men "dominate" certain industries by choice. and don't let women in. Game Devs, for instance. What about makeup artists? Do women dominate that industry by choice? do they not let men in? Certainly women have a high majority of that industry... Maybe... JUST MAYBE.... people with different hormones are drawn to different occupations?
Quote from: PickelledEggs on July 16, 2016, 04:25:07 PM
feminsim is an ideology that assumes, implies, and makes rules about men, how men should act, how men should conduct themselves, etc. But at the same time, if a man says "I don't do those toxic things" or points out that women do these certain things too, or any input whatsoever, for the most part, the men get bullied out of the conversation. Ganged up on. "You, as a man, cannot understand what it is like. blah blah blah." . i.e. the objectification of women/men. (Both parties do it and it's not necessarily a bad thing to do)
It's like when that term man-splaining came along. whoever came up with that term can go fuck herself. What about how that woman, in the same article woman-splained to men? I can't even find the article because once it was coined, feminists have jumped on it and the entire internet is littered with the term. Feminists assume that men "dominate" certain industries by choice. and don't let women in. Game Devs, for instance. What about makeup artists? Do women dominate that industry by choice? do they not let men in? Certainly women have a high majority of that industry... Maybe... JUST MAYBE.... people with different hormones are drawn to different occupations?
I very strongly disagree that this is what feminism is. That is most certainly not what it is to me. It's not about men doing the wrong thing or that men and women are exactly the same. It's about women having the same opportunities as men.
Quote from: Mermaid on July 16, 2016, 04:27:24 PM
I very strongly disagree that this is what feminism is. That is most certainly not what it is to me. It's not about men.
can you explain what it means to you, then? Because it is very unclear due to how many current ways feminism is carried out.
Gonna post this again.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zo2dTzRdypY
you replied as i was editing! :)
Ah, that video is gross.
I wish we could spent a week in each others' shoes, men and women.
I want to experience what it is like to feel what men feel. I would also love for men to feel what women feel every day.
If I say that I find being hit on and catcalled threatening and scary, I am usually met with defensiveness and even anger. Why is that? Do you think it's not real?
Quote from: Mermaid on July 16, 2016, 04:38:53 PM
If I say that I find being hit on and catcalled threatening and scary, I am usually met with defensiveness and even anger. Why is that? Do you think it's not real?
Who is getting angry at you for this? Seriously, I have never witnessed this.
Quote from: Mermaid on July 16, 2016, 04:27:24 PM
I very strongly disagree that this is what feminism is. That is most certainly not what it is to me. It's not about men doing the wrong thing or that men and women are exactly the same. It's about women having the same opportunities as men.
Um... they do have the same amount of opportunities as men. Men are at a disadvantage compared to women in some jobs at the same note. Women might not be very prevalent in the game design industry, but what is holding them back? Nothing... other than their drive to. There isn't any discrimination. In addition there is the ability to publish your own game by yourself.
Same thing with movie direction. Women are not usually the directors, they're usually men. But is that really men blocking them? really? I don't think you can honestly say that.
On the other hand, men have some issues of their own. Like I said, makeup artists are primarily women. Are women blocking men? no. I just don't think men usually want to make people pretty. That is something women are drawn to, for the most part.
What about nursing? Nursing is a great job. Pays well, great benefits, way less stressful than being a full-blown doctor... women dominate that field. Are men blocked from that? No... there is still a stigma attached to men being nurses though.
What about psychologists and counselers? HR managers? Veterinarians? Education admins? Elementary School teachers?
All of these professions are dominated by women.
On top of that. Lets talk about how men have the pressure of being the bread winner of the family. Sure there are a few cool women out there that know it should be half/half, ideally. and there are a few people that don't mind if the guy makes a little less and the woman makes a little more, but men are looked at as a loser if they make less than the woman, by the majority of the world.
Lets also talk about how all these pressures that both genders have and how they affect suicide rates in both parties... spoiler alert, men have a much higher rate of committing suicide than women. Also. Men are taught that emotions are bad... expression is bad...etc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9EggTX-Jbk
Hitchens fucking called it in '94. It's a "who is the biggest victim war now" feminists want to perpetuate that they are victims and need protection... need more opportunities. There is just as much opportunities they have as men. They're just different. They will always be different. And it's because men and women are wired differently.
It's like if I complained about getting a job as a summer time landscaper. "These landscapers are discriminating against me and won't give me a job!" I hate the heat. I would never want to be a landscaper. I realize that and don't complain that I can't get a landscaping job. For some reason feminists see women not as prevalent in fields such as directing movies and automatically assume they are being discriminated against. Maybe.... just maybe they aren't as interested in directing actors? and the same thing goes for other fields. Maybe they aren't as interested in those fields... just like men aren't as interested in the fields women dominate?
Quote from: Hijiri Byakuren on July 16, 2016, 04:50:50 PM
Who is getting angry at you for this? Seriously, I have never witnessed this.
I witness it all the time.
Quote from: Mermaid on July 16, 2016, 04:59:04 PM
I witness it all the time.
You didn't answer my question.
Fair and balanced (like Fox News).
I seriously don't have the energy for this.
Quote from: Mermaid on July 16, 2016, 04:38:53 PM
If I say that I find being hit on and catcalled threatening and scary, I am usually met with defensiveness and even anger. Why is that? Do you think it's not real?
Do I think catcalling is not real? I do think it's real. I don't think it's as horrible as many of these feminists tend to make it out to be. Some of the cat-calls are actually pretty nasty.... but someone saying "You're really pretty" or "you're beautiful"... it's ridiculous to demonize something as benign as that.
Quote from: Hijiri Byakuren on July 16, 2016, 04:50:50 PM
Seriously, I have never witnessed this.
Have you never left the house? I have witnessed it many times. It's just not necessarily bad or malicious. More times than not, it's benign "You're beautiful" type things.
Quote from: PickelledEggs on July 16, 2016, 05:03:21 PM
Have you never left the house? I have witnessed it many times. It's just not necessarily bad or malicious. More times than not, it's benign "You're beautiful" type things.
Yes I have left the house, and no, I have never seen this. What alien planet do you live on that this is a common occurrence? Seriously, I want to know.
Fair and balanced (like Fox News).
Quote from: Hijiri Byakuren on July 16, 2016, 05:06:02 PM
Yes I have left the house, and no, I have never seen this. What alien planet do you live on that this is a common occurrence? Seriously, I want to know.
Fair and balanced (like Fox News).
I go to the city a lot.... sometimes art galleries... bars. You know... places with lots of people
Quote from: PickelledEggs on July 16, 2016, 05:07:05 PM
I go to the city a lot.... sometimes art galleries... bars. You know... places with lots of people
I'll take your word for it. The only large city I live near is Seattle, and I don't go there unless I absolutely need to.
Fair and balanced (like Fox News).
Quote from: Hijiri Byakuren on July 16, 2016, 05:17:03 PM
I'll take your word for it. The only large city I live near is Seattle, and I don't go there unless I absolutely need to.
Fair and balanced (like Fox News).
Yeah. I am out a lot. I'm in the city a lot....
A lot of times there is cat-calling, but it's things like "oh hi. You're gorgeous" There is the few really creepy guys, but it's more rare than you would think. Even in this video, this girl is really attractive.... she's going to get compliments. There were a few creeps in this video. The guy that followed her, the guy that got annoyed that told her to smile. But the guy that said "what's up beautiful?" really? That's sexist? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1XGPvbWn0A
What about when women cat-call men? It happens. Not nearly as much, but it does. I've been cat-called a few times, as hilarious of a thought that is. I personally don't care if men get cat-called or not. If they do, more power to the women doing the cat-calling and kudos to the guys for looking good. But this "no-compliments because I'm offended. I dress like this for me" bullshit is getting out of hand.
This is of course not to say that women don't have their issues to deal with. They do. Like when Hobby Lobby was giving them shit for the planned parenthood stuff... That was bullshit that needed to be changed. Women should have the right to their own body.
This no compliments thing and the "women need more opportunities in the workplace" malarkey needs to stop though.
I witnessed some woman yell to another woman in Washington Square Park "you look like a slut". People I general can be assholes and have bad judgement for public conduct. But for feminism, it only exists (seemingly, the way they present their position to the world at least) with men doing it to women. Not women doing it to men and not women doing it to women.
Sent from your mom.
I think you might have misunderstood my original post. I was talking about "guys getting angry," not catcalling. I've actually been cat called before, as has my father.
Fair and balanced (like Fox News).
Quote from: Hijiri Byakuren on July 16, 2016, 05:39:42 PM
I think you might have misunderstood my original post. I was talking about "guys getting angry," not catcalling. I've actually been cat called before, as has my father.
Fair and balanced (like Fox News).
ohhhhh. Yeah I've witnessed that too. Not towards myself, but I've seen some guys be total dicks towards women after giving them a compliment and them not either hearing, or if they ignored them
I thought you were talking specifically about the catcalling. But yes. I've witnessed both.
Quote from: PickelledEggs on July 16, 2016, 05:48:09 PMI thought you were talking specifically about the catcalling. But yes. I've witnessed both.
Okay, well my question stands: who is doing this? Like, what sort of crowd are we talking, here? I want to know who to look out for so I can investigate.
Quote from: PickelledEggs on July 16, 2016, 05:01:51 PM
Do I think catcalling is not real? I do think it's real. I don't think it's as horrible as many of these feminists tend to make it out to be. Some of the cat-calls are actually pretty nasty.... but someone saying "You're really pretty" or "you're beautiful"... it's ridiculous to demonize something as benign as that.
Ok, see, that's the thing. I don't care to demonize anything. It can actually be scary. I'd rather it not be so, and I would really rather just enjoy it. But this is an example of walking in a woman's shoes. It often feels like threat, or humiliating or whatever. We just want to get to work, or work out or go about our business without someone commenting on how pretty we are. It's confrontational and can be frightening. Can you at least try to accept that at face value? I think this is a very important general concept, and I am certainly not doing it any justice with the language I am using now. I wish I could put it into better words.
Quote from: Hijiri Byakuren on July 16, 2016, 05:56:13 PM
Okay, well my question stands: who is doing this? Like, what sort of crowd are we talking, here? I want to know who to look out for so I can investigate.
I have encountered many young men online, for example, who get defensive and angry about it (I used to moderate a dating forum). It's somehow perceived as negative about men, and accusatory toward all men. It's not.
Quote from: Mermaid on July 16, 2016, 06:00:12 PM
I have encountered many young men online, for example, who get defensive and angry about it (I used to moderate a dating forum). It's somehow perceived as negative about men, and accusatory toward all men. It's not.
So basically my generation. Great, just another reason to love being a millennial.
Actually, now that you mention it, this does sound like something /r/TheRedPill would do. It would explain a lot about their worldview.
Quote from: Hijiri Byakuren on July 16, 2016, 06:03:01 PM
So basically my generation. Great, just another reason to love being a millennial.
Actually, now that you mention it, this does sound like something /r/TheRedPill would do. It would explain a lot about their worldview.
No. Not just your generation.
Quote from: PickelledEggs on July 16, 2016, 05:39:19 PM
But for feminism, it only exists (seemingly, the way they present their position to the world at least) with men doing it to women. Not women doing it to men and not women doing it to women.
I also disagree with this.
Quote from: Mermaid on July 16, 2016, 06:12:07 PM
I also disagree with this.
You may disagree with that as a description of what feminism is, but that is how it comes off, the way it is displayed to us from a man's point of view.
Quote from: PickelledEggs on July 16, 2016, 06:18:19 PM
You may disagree with that as a description of what feminism is, but that is how it comes off, the way it is displayed to us from a man's point of view.
Fair enough. I think people need to listen to each other and try not to judge. We're all guilty of it, I think, jumping to conclusions and faulting a group for the actions of a few.
Quote from: GSOgymrat on July 16, 2016, 03:59:55 PMHere is my take on "safe spaces." People need areas where they can come together and discuss common interests without being harassed or having to explain themselves. Support groups, churches, social clubs and forums like this one are examples. This atheist forum is moderated and although religious people participate they are banned if they are only here to proselytize or put down atheists. "Safe space" is an infantilizing term but this forum is a safe space for atheists.
I agree, though of course, I would never claim that I come here because the outside world is so oppressive that I can only truly express myself here. That's the part I take issue with. I think that the SJW attempt at broadening oppression to the point that literally everyone suffers from it trivializes actual victims, people who truly face stiff societal penalties for speaking their minds or being who they are - people who are executed for apostasy or immodesty or being gay or nonviolent opposition to the country's ruling party.
QuoteBased on what I have read, the problem with safe spaces on universities is that some people want classrooms, lectures and public presentations to be safe spaces for any minority. People like myself who believe in classic liberalism believe censoring ideas in classrooms, lectures and public presentations is not only unfeasible but damaging to the development of critical thought. It is self-censorship and avoidance behavior (I could go into a whole discussion as to why this trend is bad for mental health). The college classroom is a place where students should be physically safe but not safe from controversial or upsetting ideas.
I agree. Also, I can't help but point out the contradiction of creating a safe space to fight self-censorship ending up promoting self-censorship. Clearly, that's not the way forward.
And similarly Men's rights activists come off as negative towards women, when it's about rights for men. Both, I feel are the two sides of the same coin. They fuel each other. Personally, I feel like it's time we rid ourselves of both of them and focus on being better humans as a whole. This whole men vs women/women vs men thing is counter productive.
Quote from: PickelledEggs on July 16, 2016, 06:42:09 PM
And similarly Men's rights activists come off as negative towards women, when it's about rights for men. Both, I feel are the two sides of the same coin. They fuel each other. Personally, I feel like it's time we rid ourselves of both of them and focus on being better humans as a whole. This whole men vs women/women vs men thing is counter productive.
Now that is good food for thought. Everything I've read from any MRA site has made me feel angry and disgusted. Aha, it works both ways. Thanks for the insight.
Quote...but that is how it comes off, the way it is displayed to us from a man's point of view.
I must be doing this "man" thing wrong, because yall have vastly different experiences and impressions of feminists than I have ever seen.
Quote from: Shiranu on July 16, 2016, 08:24:11 PM
I must be doing this "man" thing wrong, because yall have vastly different experiences and impressions of feminists than I have ever seen.
More likely, we are paying attention to different feminists.
Quote from: Shiranu on July 16, 2016, 08:24:11 PM
I must be doing this "man" thing wrong, because yall have vastly different experiences and impressions of feminists than I have ever seen.
You're probably just having trouble seeing the logic flaws as easily.
In all honesty, I get it. I get why women are so drawn to feminism and I get why a lot of men want to support it too. "Someone is being inconvenienced/oppressed? We can't have that!!!" Just looking at these claims and say "wait. There isn't really much more oppression for women than men..." or "wait. men are just as objectified as women, but somehow women are victims when it happens to them?" or "wait. Men are less populated than women in practically the same amount of professions that women populate less than men." That's taboo, and everyone jumps down your throat like you're the enemy. you point out the flaws of a logic and you're the enemy. even if you believe that women should have equal rights to men, the very fact that you point out "well... they do. they actually have some upper-hand in some cases too, just like men have the upper hand in some cases as well.
When you point these things out. People jump on you. and on the other hand it's very tempting to hear "women are getting lower wages and lower paying jobs", not actually look at the numbers and how they were arranged, what careers women tend to go into and apply to and jump on that bandwagon. It's very tempting. I did it too, up until a point. We all remember the thread I started with Emma Watson's address to the U.N. That is, I think, around the time where I actually started looking at the information and noticed things didn't add up in favor of feminism.
Lets look at this another way. What are some things in the news that feminists claim and are actually true?
Lets look at the mass shooters in the last few decades. Most of them (all of them?) were men. Why is this?
Without even getting in to the subject in detail, we can see that men are wired differently than women. Maybe they're wired more aggressively by default? Testosterone? I'm in no way condoning killing of any kind, of course, but this claim that men make up most of the mass shooters is correct. It suggests that men are wired differently than women, which also, and of course in vice-versa.... this also suggests that women are, by default, for the most part wired differently than men.
This is an extreme and tragic example, but wouldn't this also suggest to anyone that looks at this, that men are driven to do certain things and pursue certain things? Different things than women? And also, again vice-versa suggest that women are by default driven to do and pursue certain things as well? Different life choices? Careers? etc?
Idk. It's obvious to me. I've said this many many times in these feminism threads. Men and women both have their issues to deal with. And they both have their strengths.
Quote from: Nonsensei on July 16, 2016, 08:52:57 PM
More likely, we are paying attention to different feminists.
Probably the most accurate.
Men with smaller penises tend to over compensate with war, brutality, and asshattery. Everything is about sex more or less unconsciously.
Women prone towards violence or being a bitch as they say because of penis envy, or because of sexual abuse.
I've seen some pretty dickish behavior over the years. If men spoke to men and commented the way they did, there would be fistfights. Catcalling and so forth is bullying to me. Everybody has the right to be treated with respect. I got drunk once years ago and said something I thought was complimentary towards a guys' girl friend and it almost turned into a fight.
The assache I have with SJW's is taking issues and blowing them up to the point that discussion is no longer possible. I would like to have a chat with Wanda Sykes about the word gay, for example. It had a whole lot of other meanings before the homosexual community coopted it and redefined it.
Gaily bedight
a gallant knight
in sunshine and in shadow
Gaily means colorfully in that context. I daresay romantic poetry would need a rewrite in this day and age.
I am not going to read all the previous posts, just going to jump head first in. I am saddened that I'm so many cultures that women and men, but mostly women are so indoctrinated that they will kill their daughters simply because they are not males. And women will kill their daughter-in-laws because they cannot produce a male child. Truly…..truly sad.
Quote from: stromboli on July 17, 2016, 12:10:31 AM
I've seen some pretty dickish behavior over the years. If men spoke to men and commented the way they did, there would be fistfights. Catcalling and so forth is bullying to me. Everybody has the right to be treated with respect. I got drunk once years ago and said something I thought was complimentary towards a guys' girl friend and it almost turned into a fight.
The assache I have with SJW's is taking issues and blowing them up to the point that discussion is no longer possible. I would like to have a chat with Wanda Sykes about the word gay, for example. It had a whole lot of other meanings before the homosexual community coopted it and redefined it.
Gaily bedight
a gallant knight
in sunshine and in shadow
Gaily means colorfully in that context. I daresay romantic poetry would need a rewrite in this day and age.
The meaning of words is always changing, evolving. You would not understand a speaker of English from 1200 years ago nor he you - a word here and there is all. Even 500 years ago, you'd get in a lot of trouble w/misunderstandings. A nunnery, for instance, was a whorehouse, not a convent.
What women do to men at most times ignored until men do it to women -or the other way around or what they do by themselves in this context in different conditions- is a part of the social contract based on traditional, religious gender roles.
The main problem starts when a person -for any reason; be it age, lack of experience, lack of perspective, anger, frustration, social media conditioning- see themselves or the society they live in exist out of that social contract. Nobody or no society is out of that contract in human culture. Defacto statement.
[The idea that catcalling, verbal abuse is something about the new generation is ridiculous, because probably it is the oldest, most ancient interaction between all of the genders. But modern life enabled more interactions less inhibted relations between genders and yes that could affect the picture. But thinking millennials have a special place in this straight stupid. The only problem with millennials that they are social media kids and they adapt a lot of problems and vcitimhoods they don't live through in real life. And gender issues is a just a part of this.]
The problem is that social contract 'enables' one gender to act in a certain way over the other because of the identity it gives to him. We arrive to the main point. Male gender in general, specifically the heterosexual is defined as the one being the 'doer' of things; from being the main perpetrator to the main successor. for so LONG A TIME human civilisation solely depended on survival of women and children and that is provided by males. Line of defense. Disposability of male gender. Because he is a bigger stronger animal.
And that anthroplogical principle entitled the man; who is a father and a soldier; the defender, written and unwritten rights to act in many ways. This is why it counts when he does CERTAIN things and when women don't, but in exchange of this; why CERTAIN things women do count in a different way. It's a hierarchy moving both ways with many tangled webs. Most obvious, like the social acceptance of men being more likley to cheat and less ignored by the society in their unfaithfullness because they are men, but for women there is ALWAYS higher price to pay. Also most women are more patriarchal than men. (You'd watch many of them oppressing their own gender very often according to this social contract. ) Another example, a man is expected to take care of the woman and a woman wouldn't get flak if she didn't work and stay at home even without children. But a man would pay a social price if he does that or he chooses to be a stay home dad. He wouldn't get respected by most men or women even not said out loud.
Yes, things have changed. We evolved as species and in a few regions on the planet it is almost impossible to observe this directly. But the social contract stands.
This conviction -mostly carried by young people- that modern life is now out of this bullshit is delusional. First of all because discussion is about the ideals. What should or should not be/happen while real life is completely different than that when it comes to relationship in real life. Because heterosexual men and women have many different dynamics and a motivations between each other. For example a young man who has certain conscious ideas about gender issues can easily act as a white knight or let a young woman 'walk over' him even unconscioulsy in certain situations. No, I don't mean sex. And young women would fall in to the same situation too.
This is a fight of modification of behaviour and desire of ideals of a couple of hundreds years VS to millions of years of survival instincts. There is NO winning. Invalid expectation. There is only getting conscious about things without getting buried into 'But I haven't seen this happening or I would never do such a thing' or 'I don't believe blah blah is happening'.
Quote from: Draconic Aiur on July 16, 2016, 11:54:16 PM
Women prone towards violence or being a bitch as they say because of penis envy, or because of sexual abuse.
What?
Quote from: drunkenshoe on July 17, 2016, 05:37:27 AMThe idea that catcalling, verbal abuse is something about the new generation is ridiculous, because probably it is the oldest, most ancient interaction between all of the genders.
My question: has catcalling ever
worked? I mean, has any man been successful at attracting a woman by whistling at her, making lewd gestures, and shouting lewd things at her?
I've never done so to a woman. It's rude and obnoxious at its best.
Quote from: Atheon on July 17, 2016, 10:32:46 AM
My question: has catcalling ever worked? I mean, has any man been successful at attracting a woman by whistling at her, making lewd gestures, and shouting lewd things at her?
I've never done so to a woman. It's rude and obnoxious at its best.
I doubt it. It's certainly never worked for me. What? You like my sexy ass? Tell me more, and then take me roughly, you MAGNIFICENT STALLION.
Quote from: Mermaid on July 17, 2016, 10:47:19 AM
I doubt it. It's certainly never worked for me. What? You like my sexy ass? Tell me more, and then take me roughly, you MAGNIFICENT STALLION.
No - the idea behind the catcalling is proof of fraternity - proof to other men that one is a redblooded man who appreciates women, that one isn't queer. It has nothing to do w/actually getting women. To get women, men become all soft and "romantic" - flowers and candy and other bullshit and lies.
Quote from: marom1963 on July 17, 2016, 10:59:27 AM
No - the idea behind the catcalling is proof of fraternity - proof to other men that one is a redblooded man who appreciates women, that one isn't queer. It has nothing to do w/actually getting women. To get women, men become all soft and "romantic" - flowers and candy and other bullshit and lies.
This is why I was single into my 40s. Holy shit!
QuoteTo get women, men become all soft and "romantic" - flowers and candy and other bullshit and lies.
What I've learned in this thread - it's time to turn in my man card. That shit is fun, yo...
My best "method" was to say very….. very ….little.
Quote from: Atheon on July 17, 2016, 10:32:46 AM
My question: has catcalling ever worked? I mean, has any man been successful at attracting a woman by whistling at her, making lewd gestures, and shouting lewd things at her?
I've never done so to a woman. It's rude and obnoxious at its best.
I don't think demonstrating such behaviour is about thinking that it will work. It's something else.
When catcalls are done, there isn't just the woman. Usually there is an audience of males. In my opinion, this is often a demonstration mostly for other males.
Quote from: marom1963 on July 17, 2016, 10:59:27 AM
No - the idea behind the catcalling is proof of fraternity - proof to other men that one is a redblooded man who appreciates women, that one isn't queer. It has nothing to do w/actually getting women.
I didn't think of it like that. Good point. Yeah. I've never seen it work or heard of it working either. Every time I hear of how people met if they met in real life and not through the internet, including my own stories, one person walked up to the other and introduced themselves. or something like that. Never heard of someone shouting from across the room/street a compliment and it actually working.
Quote from: aitm on July 17, 2016, 12:54:25 PM
My best "method" was to say very….. very ….little.
Speak softly and carry a big stick, amiright? wait. waht?
Quote from: drunkenshoe on July 17, 2016, 01:11:50 PM
When catcalls are done, there isn't just the woman. Usually there is an audience of males. In my opinion, this is often a demonstration mostly for other males.
Yeah. That's what
@marom1963 just said. It's a good point. Probably a kneejerk thing to display male dominance among other males.
Although. I should add a disclaimer that I am in no way a psychologist
Quote from: Draconic Aiur on July 17, 2016, 01:52:41 PM
You know it's true subconsciously.
(http://soepic.net/stor/items/0c918903346fdfe2e.jpg)
Quote from: Draconic Aiur on July 17, 2016, 01:52:41 PM
You know it's true subconsciously.
Dude. Sometimes even I don't want a dick and balls. Ever have a soccer ball kicked directly at your crotch? Even when it's an accident... shit's not fun.
Quote from: Draconic Aiur on July 17, 2016, 01:52:41 PM
You know it's true subconsciously.
(http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/007/445/pancake_bunny.jpg)
Quote from: PickelledEggs on July 17, 2016, 02:19:49 PM
Dude. Sometimes even I don't want a dick and balls. Ever have a soccer ball kicked directly at your crotch? Even when it's an accident... shit's not fun.
I don't know how you guys walk around with those things.
Quote from: Mermaid on July 17, 2016, 02:51:18 PM
I don't know how you guys walk around with those things.
Sometimes it's very difficult. And painful.
Nice Seinfeld reference, btw
@Mermaid lol
glad you seemd to like it.
Some people seem to think that TJ and I have this weird feud. But we get along pritty well actualy.
Quote from: drunkenshoe on July 16, 2016, 10:00:24 AM
Here is a suggestion to the boys.
Find a standard forum. Nothing out of the oridnary, but a common one. Get a female nickname and talk about women issues in an easy going, sensible egalitarian way after saying 'I am a woman and I experience this...'.
Repeat the same experiment with saying 'I am a feminist' but never change the manner and the sensible material yuo are offering.
Then watch what is going on each time. May be that would give you some insight about the female side, SJW or not. Because as long as you are a female voicing something out loud about gender issues, it really doesn't matter what you think/say beyond that you are a female as reactions go. Experience it yourself.
How does my cock protect me from unemployment, poverty, bar fights, illness, social security cuts, a shit government, the draft, terrorism and just any shit thing in life in general.
You dont seem to get it, the pretentious nonsense coming out of the SJW community has mainly formulated itself in undermining other people and attacking other peaople rather than in any way making the case for anything they supposedly believe in.
And fundermentaly, their meandering often seems to be nothing more than a pretentious excuse to get arround difficulties in life that other usualy face without complaining.
Life is like Belgium. You have to march through it.
Monkeys' Balls Show How Men Overcompensate
http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2015/10/21/monkeys-balls-show-how-men-overcompensate
Those men catcalling and driving Hummers and hollering at football games and, heck, mansplaining â€" are they compensating for something else?
Science suggests yes.
A new study finds that monkeys with louder calls also have, ahem, smaller balls â€" and by extension, less sperm for reproduction.
"In evolutionary terms, all males strive to have as many offspring as they can, but when it comes to reproduction you can't have everything," said lead researcher Jacob Dunn of the University of Cambridge's Division of Biological Anthropology, crushing the hopes of high school boys everywhere. When males invest in large bodies, bright colors, or weaponry such as horns or long canines, they are unable to also invest in reproductive traits," Dunn added.
It's unclear whether the results extend to gold chains and Camaros, but this is the first study to find an apparent tradeoff between "vocal investment and sperm production," he said.
The researchers studied Howler monkeys, the That-Guy-from-the-Bleacher-Section of the animal kingdom. Weighing just 15 pounds â€" or the size of a small dog â€" the species ranks as one of the loudest on the planet, unleashing a roar that can be heard 3 miles away, powered by vocal cords three times longer than a human's.
Males, true to type, simply yell until a female shows up.
For those living in groups with other males, they tend to have smaller vocal organs but bigger testes, suggesting a "battle for reproduction geared more toward 'sperm competition,'" a statement on the findings described. For male howling monkeys living on their own among women in an â€" actual quote â€" "harem" social model, the opposite tended to be true.
"It may be that investment in developing a large vocal organ and roaring is so costly that there is simply not enough energy left to invest in testes," Dunn said. "Alternatively, using a large vocal organ for roaring may be so effective at deterring rival males that there is no need to invest in large testes."
The study was published Wednesday in the journal Current Biology.
(http://theintellectualist.co/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/7189239887_21671445d3_b.jpg)
Quote from: PickelledEggs on July 17, 2016, 02:19:49 PM
Dude. Sometimes even I don't want a dick and balls. Ever have a soccer ball kicked directly at your crotch? Even when it's an accident... shit's not fun.
You know it's true, your just getting mad to deny it.
I'm more confused at what you're talking about than anything, most of the time.
Not sure if this thread has become elevated or degenerated? :headscratch:
I think a little of column a, a lot of column b. Then again, coming into a thread like this with any sort of positive expectations is setting your self up for failure.
Quote from: Flanker1Six on July 17, 2016, 06:00:15 PM
Not sure if this thread has become elevated or degenerated? :headscratch:
You know, I'm not really sure either. I say we just go with it and see what happens.
I already lost interest. For now at least... Gotta love a short attention span.
Everybody actin' like they lost their toys
rattlin' around and making noise
If I ain't correct po-lit-i-kly
SJWs be a comin at me
Politically correct keep you up all night
ain't the same if you're black or white
black live matter- that's the ticket
all lives matter- you're a goddamn bigot
Support no cops unless they're gunned down
with NRA approved guns around town
Arm the citizens to meet the foe
who's the foe? don't know no mo
You wear a turban you better move quick
they think you're Islam- not a Sikh
religion all got somebody to hate
but they still gonna make it through the pearly gates
Got an assache bro right there in your rump
put a vote down for Donald Trump
folk singer singin' their mournful song
why can't we all just get along?
Got a diatribe right here on the 'net
Some new thing we ain't pissed at yet
So to keep folks from havin' a cow
give them a safe space- that's how!
Now personally I think there'd be a lot less hissing
if everybody would shut up and listen
Everybody's got a point of view
and we all want to be listened to
Problem is to separate the bores
from all the fucking attention whores
If you can type on a keyboard you've got a voice
even if its nothing but insipid noise
And you can joust in verbal engagement
spoutin' your wisdom from your mama's basement
Even if you're a worthless slob
and can't even hold a fucking job
The internet enables fools
even if they're nothing but worthless tools
Can't hold a job? Well hey there, bruthah
you can be an Ess Jay Double yah
Social warrior? you got a chance
Even if you're wearing size triple X pants
You can be braver and you can be cuter
when you are emoting on your home computer
I think it would be better and more sincere
if we'd all sit down and have a beer
You can't get radical all over the place
if you talk it out, face to face
I remember when respect was the operant word
because everybody wants to be heard
when deals were done man to man
and at the end, we all shook hands
Ar-e-ess-pee-e-see-t
means a whole lot to me
respect it seems has gone astray
when you're dissing someone a thousand miles away
So sit down brother and have a beer
face to face we'll settle it here
we don't have to scream or shout
and we certainly don't have to duke it out
If you listen first you have to admit
you might exactly agree a bit
But I hate to say it, it ain't worth a shilling
because reason, mate, has left the building
Quote from: Mermaid on July 17, 2016, 06:36:59 PM
You know, I'm not really sure either. I say we just go with it and see what happens.
I'm not even sure what we're talking about anymore, and I'm the one who started this shit.
Quote from: Hijiri Byakuren on July 17, 2016, 08:08:03 PM
I'm not even sure what we're talking about anymore, and I'm the one who started this shit.
Somehow it only focused on the point about catcalling women for a while and went on a semi-tangent from there
I admit I was/maybestill am a lover of women. And yes, that is probably not in the best possible way. It would never ever enter my mind to catcall…and I have been in construction all of my life and in some rather large projects where such stuff happened. Nearly every man who ever did such a thing couldn't even talk to a pretty woman without great discomfort. Men who do this suffer greatly from confidence and have few female friends or perhaps jump the fence to keep themselves in the closet. The vast majority of time this is simply a male "bonding" moment of complete uselessness but for the very moment. I understand a woman's discomfort, but she could just as easily turn around and laugh as a dozen men scurried for cover.
Quote from: PickelledEggs on July 17, 2016, 05:36:36 PM
I'm more confused at what you're talking about than anything, most of the time.
You never read Sigmund Freud or any psychology on the matter have you? Everything that living things do is sexual subconsciously whether you like it or not.
Quote from: Draconic Aiur on July 17, 2016, 11:45:32 PM
You never read Sigmund Freud or any psychology on the matter have you? Everything that living things do is sexual subconsciously whether you like it or not.
Freud has been mostly debunked... so even if I have, it wouldn't matter, would it?
Quote from: PickelledEggs on July 18, 2016, 12:04:30 AM
Freud has been mostly debunked... so even if I have, it wouldn't matter, would it?
Debunked for what? Being right? I mean the SJW's Female Lesbians it's all about penis envy.
Quote from: Draconic Aiur on July 18, 2016, 12:23:26 AM
Debunked for what? Being right? I mean the SJW's Female Lesbians it's all about penis envy.
(http://cf.chucklesnetwork.com/items/1/1/3/5/8/original/not-sure-if-youre-joking-or-serious.jpg)
Quote from: PickelledEggs on July 18, 2016, 12:44:55 AM
(http://cf.chucklesnetwork.com/items/1/1/3/5/8/original/not-sure-if-youre-joking-or-serious.jpg)
I've given up trying to figure that one out.
Quote from: Draconic Aiur on July 17, 2016, 11:45:32 PM
You never read Sigmund Freud or any psychology on the matter have you? Everything that living things do is sexual subconsciously whether you like it or not.
Freud is to psychology what Ken Ham is to abiogenesis.
I have alot of respect for Freud as the father of modern psychology, but his theories were extremely flawed at best and outright wrong at their worse and if you have studied any psychology in the last 20+ years you would know he is now regarded as an influential figure who got it all wrong.
imm half each
Quote from: Shiranu on July 18, 2016, 12:50:39 AM
I've given up trying to figure that one out.
Freud is to psychology what Ken Ham is to abiogenesis.
I have alot of respect for Freud as the father of modern psychology, but his theories were extremely flawed at best and outright wrong at their worse and if you have studied any psychology in the last 20+ years you would know he is now regarded as an influential figure who got it all wrong.
He didn't get it all wrong, saying that he did is going a bit too far. He was right in his most basic premises. It was the details that he got wrong. But that was inevitable for a pioneer.
Quote from: Kraut and Tea on July 17, 2016, 02:59:47 PM
How does my cock protect me from unemployment, poverty, bar fights, illness, social security cuts, a shit government, the draft, terrorism and just any shit thing in life in general.
You dont seem to get it, the pretentious nonsense coming out of the SJW community has mainly formulated itself in undermining other people and attacking other peaople rather than in any way making the case for anything they supposedly believe in.
And fundermentaly, their meandering often seems to be nothing more than a pretentious excuse to get arround difficulties in life that other usualy face without complaining.
Life is like Belgium. You have to march through it.
It seems you didn't get what is my post about. It's not about SJWs. I am not a SJW, I really don't give a fuck what they believe, I can see the circumstances and casues that drew these groups acting this way. On the contrary, actually the experiment offered is about how you don't need to be a SJW or someone abusive or agressive OR what you described up there to be treated in a disgusting way in social media platforms as long as you say you are a woman and start voicing a some sort real female issue loud. Actually, even talking about male issues equally connected with them -as they are all- pretty much lands you in the same place.
But this reaction of yours, jumping to offer of simple experiment with "my cock doesn't bla blah me" is pretty much a SJW reaction itself. You are not programmed to get the nuance put in there or communicate; make conversation. If you notice, in my post I mean do not use SJW speech, but talk about simple sensible egalitarian issues which both genders; all genders suffer obviously. And see the reaction ON THE INTERNET. I didn't offer an argument based on cocks and vaginas or what they enable.
So your cock or the issue of how your cock can't protect you from what not has nothing to do with what I am pointing out. You are a vlogger; an anonymous character making videos on what you like or don't like. You are some sort of a SJW yourself reacting to what you don't like. Hate it to break it to you, but from the big picture of things you are a SJW. You believe in your shit, they believe in theirs.
And more than 95 % vlogging on this topic is bullshit. Be it MRAs or SJWs (which is also a SJW group) or individuals supporting one of the
football teams posting videos designed to appeal emotions, spark ire in a few seconds because people watching this shit is mostly kids between ages 15-25 and their attention span as a social media generation requires either emotional abuse or boosting for ego and euphoria. They have no idea what is going on in real life. And also there is a bunch of adults making good money and clicks from this product; the business of selling vcitimhoods. Young people, doesn't matter which group they belong, are buying and selling vcitimhoods on the issues and problems THEY NEVER HAD or experienced in real life to young people in the same position.
Anyway, there is a lot of things to say on SJW and their MRA counterparts on sociological, anthropological level; sepcifically from the point of American culture, but it is not something people would pay attention, because it is not a 10 mins vlog material that can rise some emotions, inflict anger, sell victimhoods...etc.
Quote from: Draconic Aiur on July 18, 2016, 12:23:26 AM
Debunked for what? Being right? I mean the SJW's Female Lesbians it's all about penis envy.
Sweety, it doesn't work that way.
Freud has been debunked, beacuse the premise of the analysis system he offers cannot pass falsifiability principle of the scientific method.
In a nutshell, Freud says everything about human behaviour is rooted in two related basic instincts. Sex and violence. And he claims that humans' violent-sexual tendencies are determined by early childhood experiences which he defines as traumas, because every kind of first experience; memeory is some sort of a trauma according to Freud. And this is the building block of his theory; traumas, mostly the ones we don't remember, because we lived them very young that shaped our tendencies.
This is the part he cannot pass the falsifiability principle. Traumas and first memories are the primary source of his premise, but there is NO WAY to confirm if someone is acting the way he/she does because of a memory or a trauma he/she cannot remember. Freud's answer would be that 'you don't remember because it is traumatic', but see, there is no way to check that. Cannot be falsified = not scientific = cannot be relied on.
Your example of
penis envy works both ways as everything in gender issues do without any exception. It is about a Freud's example of two little children -one boy and one girl- seeing themselves naked. Now, these kids do not have the mental fortitude, knowledge or experience to understand male and female is two of different genders with two different genitalia.
-When the boy sees the girl's genitalia 'he asks why doesn't she have a pee pee? What happened to her pee pee?' Because male genitalia is located outside the human body while female genitalia is located inside of it. And there is no other difference between their bodies. Therefore what the child physically percieves without any knowledge is that SOMETHING BAD HAPPENED TO HER, is it ripped out, cut out? Because physically she 'lacks' what he has, while they both look 'exactly' the same.
This is called
Castration Fear or
Anxiety in males upon realisation that females don't thave what they do and so they might fall in the same positions by Freud that was rooted in a childhood. Also what he relates with attachment to mother and competing with father as a male for mother's affection; sometimes even having inner deep sexual desire for their mothers. Called
Oedipus Complex by Freud.
With females, a similar drill goes accoridng to Freud. Why does she 'lack' something the other has and as the penis is defined with 'power' he says this takes shapes in a different form in adult females. Again from attachment to mother to competing with her for the affection of her father; sometimes even having inner deep sexual desire for their father; as called by Jung
Electra Complex.
These are inflated
heteronormative arguments based on an era when gender is defined with two strict traditional definitions, while anything out of these definitions were just seen as 'perverted tendencies'. They are just bullshit with no sicentific base.
-Today we know that GENDER, GENDER IDENTITY, SEXUAL ORIENTATION are very different things. Lesbians are not some women who desires to own a penis. Homosexual males are not men who desires to have a vagina. Actually to most of them, the 'opposite' gender's gentialia means nothing. They do not feel anything good or bad about it. They are simply NOT INTERESTED IN IT. They don't think about it, they don't fucking caaaaaaaaaaaaare.
-Sexual intercourse is not some act that need penis to happen.
-Clitoris IS NOT AN UNDERDEVELOPED PENIS. It's not freaking 70s.
-Transgenders are people whose gender and gender identity DO NOT MATCH. Their sexual orientation has nothing to do with their gender or gender identity. They don't care
-'Feminists are lesbians with a desire to have a penis' is a religious, right wing propaganda exactly like 'homosexual males or not real men'.
Get your updates.
Back to beginning, does this mean Freud is just a fucking pervert with inflated fantasies about the human animal? NO. Freud is a very important historical figure with a huge influence lasting to this day, first because he is one the figures who grounded human ass brutally with a solid 'fuck you, you are just a selfish animal' against the usual bullshit of 'god's divine creature put on earth with a soul'. His analysis system is called Psychoanalysis and works on some people. But see that doesn't change the fact that as a whole psychiatry is more a belief system than science. He also contributed a lot to his field, esp. about child psychology.
Quote from: drunkenshoe on July 18, 2016, 06:28:28 AMCastration Fear
I dunno, Shoe, I recently discovered that penectomy is an actual fetish some men have.
Strange enough my gf's first two initials are SJ, just missing the W and my initials are MRA.. Maybe that's why we argue, but get over it sooner or later.
Quote from: Hijiri Byakuren on July 18, 2016, 10:58:31 AM
I dunno, Shoe, I recently discovered that penectomy is an actual fetish some men have.
LOL I was talking about Dr. Freud. That fetish reminds me the ancient priests of the Goddess (or also Artemis) who castrated themselves by sticking their penis in to earth. Eeek!
Quote from: Draconic Aiur on July 17, 2016, 11:45:32 PM
You never read Sigmund Freud or any psychology on the matter have you? Everything that living things do is sexual subconsciously whether you like it or not.
Freud is to psychology as Darwin is to evolution. Even if some of the ideas were revolutionary we don't need any of their research or theories now. In the last 50 years each field has had so many updates, as science does.
However it does explains some things. But I guess I'm wrong on this one sorry.
Quote from: TrueStory on July 18, 2016, 12:57:56 PM
Freud is to psychology as Darwin is to evolution. Even if some of the ideas were revolutionary we don't need any of their research or theories now. In the last 50 years each field has had so many updates, as science does.
Darwin is still valid and will remain so. Freud, not so much. Though he started a good idea.