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 Muhammad and Terror  (http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2016/06/muhammad_and_terror.html)

QuoteIf Muslims were to limit their imitation of Muhammad by brushing their teeth the way he did, Islam might have a legitimate place in the non-Muslim world.  But Muslims cannot pick and choose.  Once they believe that he was the “Messenger of God” -- the affirmation of faith contained in the shahada, the Muslim declaration of faith -- they are declaring their faith that everything he did was good because it was in furtherance of God’s cause -- including his violence against people who rejected him.

Muhammad’s body was reduced to dust nearly 14 centuries ago, but his spirit lives on in his Koran, which contains numerous incitements to violence against people who rejected him, and in the example of his behavior -- his sunna.   Every time suicide bombers blow themselves up, killing other people along with them, there is Muhammad.  When the 9/11 hijackers slammed their passenger airplanes into buildings, there was Muhammad in the cockpit with them.  Just today, as 50 people fell to the machine gun bullets of a Muslim who walked into a nightclub in Orlando, Florida, and opened fire, the spirit of Muhammad hovered in the background, nodding with approval.

It's All About Muhammad  (http://itsallaboutmuhammad.com/)

It is all about Alexander ..

It is all about Caesar ...

It is all about Constantine ...

It is all about William ...

It is all about Cromwell ...

Lets not neglect all the other perps, shall we?

Sure, Muhammad was a man of his times, same as these other guys.  Not excusing why every leader since time began wasn't Mahatma Gandhi ...

Quote from: Baruch on June 16, 2016, 12:39:49 PM
Its all about Alexander ..

It is all about Caesar ...

It is all about Constantine ...

It is all about William ...

It is all about Cromwell ...

Lets not neglect all the other perps, shall we?

Sure, Muhammad was a mad of his times, same as these other guys.  Not excusing why every leader since time began wasn't Mahatma Gandhi ...

The difference is that the people you have listed are not emulated or revered today.

It is a basic principle of Islam that a Muslim should follow the example of the Prophet Mohammad. This is stated in the Quran (Islam's holiest book) no less than 91 times.

Source (http://www.inquiryintoislam.com/2010/08/mohammad-is-ideal-example.html)

Nobody today idolizes Pol Pot and wants to emulate him. At least I don't think so.
He didn't make a religion of his ideology.

Correct ... there is no leader today worth emulating IMHO.  I have a few past individuals that I admire.  Few choose to emulate people from past times ... though Sunni Muslims do.  Salafist Islam specifically promotes following Muhammad.  Sufi Muslims do not.  Shia Muslims follow ayatollahs of more recent vintage.  I am not sure to what extent Catholics choose to emulate the current Pope, I suspect it is limited to a faction among their clergy.  Monastic Buddhists do choose to emulate the Buddha.  Fundie Hindus try to emulate the mythical king Rama.  Confucians try to emulate Confucius, and Taoists try to emulate Lao Tzu.

But really, to follow Muhammad is to live in the E Central part of the Arabian peninsula and ride a camel, and annoy your fellow Arabs.  That is what he actually did.  Salafists are just as big a humbug as any other political ideology.  It was Caliph Umar who exported Islam beyond Arabia.  That is who the Salafists want to emulate.

So Brexit or not?  I think y'all would be fools not to cut ties with Germany and France asap.

They may have invented a lot of brilliant concepts/science, and clever physical things we still use today..........................they are certainly the sickest of the big three though.  Lucky us. 

Quote from: Flanker1Six on June 17, 2016, 12:04:45 PM
They may have invented a lot of brilliant concepts/science, and clever physical things we still use today..........................they are certainly the sickest of the big three though.  Lucky us.

The Caliph of Bagdad got sick.  His physicians couldn't heal him.  Someone said ... "Get a Greek physician!".  A Greek physician came and healed him.  So the Caliph said "I want more of this, in Baghdad and throughout my empire".  So let it be written, so let it be done.  But the Mongols, more than the Crusaders, said "Hulk smash!".  And so their society became defensive and broken for many centuries to come.  Arabs mostly preserved learning, but a few did new work.

Quote from: Baruch on June 16, 2016, 06:05:57 PM
So Brexit or not?  I think y'all would be fools not to cut ties with Germany and France asap.

Absolutely.  Europe's self destructing from their own idiocy.  Britain needs to jump ship before it's too late.  Then again, it may be too late. 

Quote from: pr126 on June 16, 2016, 01:36:05 PM
The difference is that the people you have listed are not emulated or revered today.

Yeah, because you don't need to be a 'revered' commander or a prophet to do that today. You just need a national army and an industry in need to commit atrocity.

And a media to boost it as "The war against terrorism".

Quote from: Jack89 on June 17, 2016, 02:07:33 PM
Britain needs to jump ship before it's too late.  Then again, it may be too late.

-There are nearly 1 500 000 British people emigrated to live in other EU countries.

-British people make the first group in all Europe that lives on overall EU wellfare.

-Only in 2014, 44 million British people made trips around EU via freedom of movement of EU laws.

-Brits are communicating with EU via EU since they have become a member. Just for the expertise on from diplomatics, to the cabinet secretary on trade they will pay for 'what should happen' if they leave which will cost handsome.

-Even though none of the conseuences will start to affect them soon, it will affect all the usual negotiations related to UK legitimacy, because why would EU let a member about to exit the union make any calls to begin with. Lawfully, EU has a right to hold UK responsible the moment it declared exit.

-While British trade is big with non European partners, if UK leaves the EU, it has to negotiate access to the EU market in exchange for continued acception to its rules. EU is a single market.

There are many things to drop here and UK leaving EU is pretty ridiculous. Esp. in long term...oy.


Overall, the whole Brexit is about MONEY. NOT about European culture minning itself with EU policies or refugees or immigrants. But then who would buy that propaganda? Americans. It's a good thing they only understand some English, eh? :lol:

Yes it is about money.  The City of London is the biggest corruption on the planet ... for the better clients anyway, like Arab sheiks.

See, GB is a Trojan Horse, and like the proverbial camel, it is the Five Eyes putting their nose into the EU tent.  Problem is ... GB doesn't want to be sacrificed to Germany and France.  They should have thought of that earlier.  Of course officially the US wants GB to stay in the EU ... but then we aren't looking out for their best interests, or the best interests of the EU.  Merkel is a drug mule for the drug of cheap immigrants ... like the President of Mexico is to the US.  There probably was a plan for a trickle of immigrants from the ME, but Libya, Syria and Turkey have upset that apple cart.  This was to castrate the German unions and German socialist parties.

See, this is what you guys don't get. There is no such thing as UK being sacrificed to Germany and France. There is no threat whatsoever in the UK. This is about not being able to eat the cake.

The media campaign, the political game that was played on this was so successful, not to mention British-American media is a very easy target being in the hands of bunch od media corporates, the bullshit is unbreachable.

This is not an immigrant crisis. Merkel or whoever is not doing something with an 'evil' agenda, but trying to work out the material at hand. There is nothing extraordinary going on. You guys are reading/have read tons of hyped up bullshit, news feeds in taste of tabloids posted around by pr126 and the others for years and thinking this is real.

You are supposed to know about this UK politics at first hand. It's the same old story. Playing the aristocracy.

You heard the lady. Nothing to see here. Move on.

I love you too, honey.

Then I can't help but think, why you haven't started a dozen threads about UK leaving the EU; how amazing an idea and a superb vision is that...etc. Haven't seen one.

May be, I missed it?

Quote from: drunkenshoe on June 18, 2016, 03:44:30 AM
See, this is what you guys don't get. There is no such thing as UK being sacrificed to Germany and France. There is no threat whatsoever in the UK. This is about not being able to eat the cake.

The media campaign, the political game that was played on this was so successful, not to mention British-American media is a very easy target being in the hands of bunch od media corporates, the bullshit is unbreachable.

This is not an immigrant crisis. Merkel or whoever is not doing something with an 'evil' agenda, but trying to work out the material at hand. There is nothing extraordinary going on. You guys are reading/have read tons of hyped up bullshit, news feeds in taste of tabloids posted around by pr126 and the others for years and thinking this is real.

You are supposed to know about this UK politics at first hand. It's the same old story. Playing the aristocracy.

I don't know. What I do know is that my brother-in-law is Austrian. His family is very upset w/the immigrant crisis. Ever since Austria declared a moratorium on more immigrants and sealed its borders, the family has been relieved. They despise Merkel and think that she's got some nerve opening up Europe to this flood of immigrants who seem to have no intention of acclimating and who have caused endless problems wherever they have gone - rapes, vandalism, theft - you name it. You sit in a small country w/a tiny population that has a high standard of living and see how you feel about an influx of people who notoriously multiply like rabbits. Maybe your attitude would be different.

Quote from: marom1963 on June 18, 2016, 07:11:02 AM
I don't know. What I do know is that my brother-in-law is Austrian. His family is very upset w/the immigrant crisis. Ever since Austria declared a moratorium on more immigrants and sealed its borders, the family has been relieved. They despise Merkel and think that she's got some nerve opening up Europe to this flood of immigrants who seem to have no intention of acclimating and who have caused endless problems wherever they have gone - rapes, vandalism, theft - you name it. You sit in a small country w/a tiny population that has a high standard of living and see how you feel about an influx of people who notoriously multiply like rabbits. Maybe your attitude would be different.

Do you really think that we are not in the same position? Why? Because it is a muslim country? What a distorted and condescending vision if that is the case. I do live in a little country with overwhelming issues under fire from attacks of two terrorist groups. The city and its culture I live in as opposite to those people's as it is to Austrians, marom. My personal attitude, actually nobody's personal attitude is important. People here HAVE the exact same attitude and outlook your brother and pr126 have. So there is no discirmnation at my side, nor living in a muslim country makes any difference.

The so called mimigrant crisis in Europe IS A LONG COMING result of countless policies and interventions, placing dictators-replacing them, inciting coups...everything made by USA and Europe and their allies -including the country I live in -for profit and benefit in a region already had nothing. It's not something that FELL from the sky all of a sudden or some sort of a religious conspiracy built against Europe.

Since 60s and 70s Europe happily jumped on the easy cheap work force for all the jobs they didn't want to do, their class system was 'elevated' and they didn't do anything to modify their system; assimilate those people, happily ignoring even that they existed. They continued to live in an ivory tower pushing, supporting whatever policy was the short cut to the profit, completely ignoring the reality of the world and the possible consequences of their actions-policies. European leaders, politicians, corporates do not give a fuck about how their people live. Exactly like the ones in the ME.

The first time I have read about the fatal water crisis in Syria, I was in my early 20s. I'm 40 now. I'm not going to even get into the US and old Russia arming fragmented groups in all over the ME. Or everything that has been going down since to the Afghanistan and Irak invasions just alone left more than ten millions of people moving around in a region that had nothing to begin with. NOTHING. I doubt that if you and me or anyone here could actually even understand that sense of HAVING NOTHING.

Everything has its consequences. Reality does not conform itself to people's desires and wishes, people are responsible with doing that; thinking ahead and create a reality that won't crush themselves in the end. Do you think I don't have the same attitude to people in my country? Turks, Russians, Brits, American, French, German...same piece of shit.

People are sitting here in bikinis with beer in hand at the shore in Ramadan and these people come here to work, - a rare group that is accepted- the cultural shock, the fear at both sides is overwhelming sometimes. They are so fucking scared, they do not know how to react or what to do, say. What for? What is all this for in the end? So the fucking filthy rich would be richer, the powerful would have more power. Most of are pretty normal, intelligent people, they are being pushed to support policies they don't approve, but they have to. They perfectly understand everything. So many real life drama is on. Girls being pushed to prostitution, people being forced to vote for the government, pushed into crime, mafia in a country they have no idea of, completeÅŸy different in culture, where everybody hates them.

And exactly like Europeans, majority of people here treat these people as if they came here to invade their country, as if the politicians they voted for, the policies they supported didn't result in this.

What does Europe do? Trying to dump all its fucking bullshit AND failure on to 'immigrant crisis', turning one of the greatest catastrophe of the recent human history into a 'rape campaign', porducing a slimy, hypocritical, racist, fascist series of polices so ridiculous in levels that people who actually has never interacted with an immigrant in their entire lives are making videos on how they are not prosecuted when they commited some sort of a crime. How crime, theft...this and that suddenly rose in their country. 

So it is not really as simple as living in 'a little country'. And I have NO PITY whatsoever for any soverign country -including mine- that has been fucking around the way they liked in an organised hierarchy between them and then when the time is up, pretending to be the 'victim' and start to scream their head off when it explodes on their ass. There is a perfect saying for this in English: "You made your bed, now fuck in it."


[I have been to Austria, yes it is a little cute country. I get the concern of your brother in law. But I'm also curious if his concern is really a life experience or a result of following a rabid, blood sucking, war mongering media directed by several companies or you know some friend's cousin's friend went through something horrible.]

Can't have your cake and eat it too, unless you are Marie Antoinette ;-)  There is either blowback due to post Cold War policy of Nato, or there is not.  I agree that post Cold War policy has been overly aggressive.  But it wasn't decided only in DC ... London, Paris and Berlin had input.  We have gone from Colonialism, to Neo-Colonialism to Neo-Neo-Colonialism since the end of the Cold War.  Neo-Neo-Colonialism isn't working out too well.  Not that I am surprised or care for bombing other people's countries.

You can thank Schengen specifically ... it only works if Europe is an island that can keep out the Third World.  Worst idea of all EU ideas, itself an idea cooked up in the CIA during the Cold War.

Quote...it only works if Europe is an island that can keep out the Third World.  ...

Only if you don't have money. If you do, doesn't matter what you are doing, you are in. Fetullah Gulen has been livin in the US almost all his life. With his fortune. That has been used to install sharia schools deep in EU and all around the world.

Quote from: Baruch on June 18, 2016, 10:22:47 AMYou can thank Schengen specifically ... it only works if Europe is an island that can keep out the Third World.  Worst idea of all EU ideas, itself an idea cooked up in the CIA during the Cold War.

No we didn't!! 

Did I say that out loud?    :headscratch:

Quote from: drunkenshoe on June 18, 2016, 01:10:17 PM
Only if you don't have money. If you do, doesn't matter what you are doing, you are in. Fetullah Gulen has been livin in the US almost all his life. With his fortune. That has been used to install sharia schools deep in EU and all around the world.

He has free speech .... and probably CIA handled ... since Turkey is Nato yet not Nato.  The refugees didn't have money, yet people traffickers got them into Greece.  Back in the day the French harbored the Ayatollah ... how did that work out again?  The Salafists/Saudis aren't interested in Sufis .. they kill them.  You would be better with a follower of Rumi than a follower of Qutb.

I keep forgetting that you guys have no idea of this man and what happened around him here, in the US and EU. He has had full American support for  along time. Aunt Hillary used to visit him for chats. Erdogan played the 'we are a team against secular Turkey" to him and then when he stepped his toe -money of course- he started a campaign to hunt all of his supporters down. By hunting down I mean closing every establishment, every place they had. He declared them against the country.

Oh yeah 'free speech'. Installing underground sharia schools all over Europe, brainwashing kids with fanatic bullshit. What have Europe done for decades? "Oh but we have freedom of religion and speech". Translation: "Nobody can touch us, we are Europe..." arrogance...lack of foresight...improvidence. Europe was also shaking her finger to Turkey because of ban of turban in those years. Lol it is like yesterday. Not that it was a good idea. But just an example for perspective.

All they needed to do was to modify laws and declare these establishments illegal. For fanatism and hate speech. Busting those schools. Imposing laws pushing standard education and prevent them. But nobody wanted to deal with it. Europe was too 'high and mighty' for outlawing religious fanaticism.

We have an uncouth saying. "Can't work your cock two hands on deck" I think that's a good one for the situation.

The relationship between Turkey and Europe is fraught with complications .. and bad memories.  I wish the best for y'all to work that out.  I have no idea why the US would give this Sufi refuge ... but I am sure Turks have plenty of conspiracy theories.  I also understand how Ataturk turned your country from a religious one to a secular one ... but could that last while Turkey is in the geography it is in?  Why didn't the US as it has done multiple times, sponsored a military coupe in Turkey to eliminate the resurgent Muslim militants?  The Kurdish problem is strictly an internal affair of course.  This must all go back to that secret deal that FDR cut with Ibn Saud back in 1944.  Since the 1980s, the US has been a big backer of extreme Islam and terrorism.  So far the US has supported the Arabs better than the British in 1919 ... and Israel also.  Britain being that duplicitous, defanged lion of yore.  I blame it all on Queen Victoria's gender.

Quote from: Baruch on June 19, 2016, 09:03:48 AM
The relationship between Turkey and Europe is fraught with complications .. and bad memories.  I wish the best for y'all to work that out.  I have no idea why the US would give this Sufi refuge ... but I am sure Turks have plenty of conspiracy theories.  I also understand how Ataturk turned your country from a religious one to a secular one ... but could that last while Turkey is in the geography it is in?  Why didn't the US as it has done multiple times, sponsored a military coupe in Turkey to eliminate the resurgent Muslim militants?  The Kurdish problem is strictly an internal affair of course.  This must all go back to that secret deal that FDR cut with Ibn Saud back in 1944.  Since the 1980s, the US has been a big backer of extreme Islam and terrorism.  So far the US has supported the Arabs better than the British in 1919 ... and Israel also.  Britain being that duplicitous, defanged lion of yore.  I blame it all on Queen Victoria's gender.

He is not a sufi refugee. He is a deep dark poisionous well, going undreground.

US sponsored military coupe in Turkey not once, but twice.

US also forced the shutting down of highly secular left institutions in Eastern and Southeastern Anatolia as a 'precaution' against the danger of USSR. It didn't fit with Americanisation. This is one of the examples.

A living example of people who was raised in those 'dangerous' 'commie' schools and institutions is Aziz Sancar among many others. Because this one you could find in English.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aziz_Sancar

Quote from: drunkenshoe on June 17, 2016, 03:42:33 PM
-There are nearly 1 500 000 British people emigrated to live in other EU countries.

-British people make the first group in all Europe that lives on overall EU wellfare.

-Only in 2014, 44 million British people made trips around EU via freedom of movement of EU laws.

-Brits are communicating with EU via EU since they have become a member. Just for the expertise on from diplomatics, to the cabinet secretary on trade they will pay for 'what should happen' if they leave which will cost handsome.

-Even though none of the conseuences will start to affect them soon, it will affect all the usual negotiations related to UK legitimacy, because why would EU let a member about to exit the union make any calls to begin with. Lawfully, EU has a right to hold UK responsible the moment it declared exit.

-While British trade is big with non European partners, if UK leaves the EU, it has to negotiate access to the EU market in exchange for continued acception to its rules. EU is a single market.

There are many things to drop here and UK leaving EU is pretty ridiculous. Esp. in long term...oy.


Overall, the whole Brexit is about MONEY. NOT about European culture minning itself with EU policies or refugees or immigrants. But then who would buy that propaganda? Americans. It's a good thing they only understand some English, eh? :lol:

LOL even in a post that has nothing to do with the United States you still manage to express your disdain for America.

Unfortunately back then, anyone who the US disliked was conveniently labeled as Socialist or Communist.  Today, anyone the US dislikes is conveniently labeled pro-Russian.  Today it isn't enough to be labeled a Terrorist ... the old shibboleths of the 1950s are starting to come out of hiding.  Expect someone will bring up the "domino theory" any day now.

Quote from: Nonsensei on June 20, 2016, 11:18:43 AM
LOL even in a post that has nothing to do with the United States you still manage to express your disdain for America.

I was thinking the same thing.

Europeans and their allies ... don't get the US.  I am not sure even the British get the US.  So this is a common problem.  Not that understanding the US, would make anyone happy about the status quo.

Because of my ancestry, I've always had emotional ties to both Italy and the UK.
From the get, I was not a fan of the EU. I did like the Euro free trading zone - but not the idea of a united Europe.
I saw it leading to the inevitable erosion of national identities. While I was most concerned to preserve the British and Italian characters, I'm also eager to preserve the other European national identities - even that of Belgium, where the European capital is.
I would never have done away w/the currencies. That was doom for national identity.
And I was very happy to see my beloved Britain keep the pound - and very sorry to see the lire disappear - but also the franc and the mark.
I've used all of those currencies on my trips abroad. I did not mind paying the exchange fees. I saw it as a way of preserving national characters.
My point here is that I do not think that Islam is nearly the threat to Europe that Europe is to itself!
The Europeans need to increase their birth rates.
The Europeans need to begin to assert their national identities.
The British aren't the only ones who need to rethink the EU.
I wish the British would leave - then the others, one by one.

Getting rid of exchange rates, by using a single currency, was for efficiency.  Efficiency will be maximized when all the Europeans speak German, and goose-step in the same direction and the same rhythm, like good bugs in an ant colony.  Queen Aunt Merkel would approve.  But this plan has a bug if the Arabs and Turks all move to Sweden and England.

Quote from: Nonsensei on June 20, 2016, 11:18:43 AM
LOL even in a post that has nothing to do with the United States you still manage to express your disdain for America.

Current UK politics of leaving EU has nothing to do with US?!

:rotflmao:

About my 'disdain' for America, sorry your delicate eyes are hurt by simple criticism of world politics 101. May be you should stop reading my posts? But then considering you have been writing the same post to me without trying to engage anything I write...for how long now? I started to think that may be you are taking some sort of a pleasure or satisfaction from it? Serioulsy, there is no other explanation of following a poster in a loyal manner you dislike this much.

Quote from: Jack89 on June 20, 2016, 01:11:34 PM
I was thinking the same thing.

Yeah I have seen your other two posts. :lol: Too bad we generally agree on those, eh?



Oh you guys are so transparent sometimes...lol

Quote from: drunkenshoe on June 22, 2016, 07:23:12 AM
Current UK politics of leaving EU has nothing to do with US?!

:rotflmao:

About my 'disdain' for America, sorry your delicate eyes are hurt by simple criticism of world politics 101. May be you should stop reading my posts? But then considering you have been writing the same post to me without trying to engage anything I write...for how long now? I started to think that may be you are taking some sort of a pleasure or satisfaction from it? Serioulsy, there is no other explanation of following a poster in a loyal manner you dislike this much.

Engaging you is pointless. Your ignore any point you cant respond to, changing the argument as many times as it takes and inflating the size of your posts exponentially until the person you are arguing with is forced to choose between ending the discussion or dedicating a significant portion of their day to responding. However that doesn't mean I'm going to ignore you when your head is so clearly up your ass. My posts about you are not really for you, they are for other people who might read your posts. You are one of the most toxic posters here, incapable of conceiving of a situation in which you are wrong about anything, and steadily ramping up the irrelevance and nastiness in the content of your posts until your opponent reaches the point where continuing holds no value, at which point you declare victory.

Quote from: drunkenshoe on June 22, 2016, 07:32:45 AM
Yeah I have seen your other two posts. :lol: Too bad we generally agree on those, eh?



Oh you guys are so transparent sometimes...lol

What do you hold against guppies?

My brother-in-law's family are upper-class Austrians, very well to do. Naturally, they themselves have not had anything happen to them. Not much has happened in Austria - but they attribute that to the closing of the borders and the massing of Austrian troops at the borders and the building of fences along the Italian border and the Hungarian border. Austrians in general despise Angela Merkel: they deem her some sort of devil who is ready to open Europe up to the Third World and allow in a flood of the destitute to take away good paying jobs by people who are willing to work for less - a corporate plot against the high standard of living that most in Europe enjoy. They don't want to see Europe become a Third World continent, much as the United States has become. So, they are collecting every report of rape, theft, vandalism, and displacement that is following in the wake of migrant entrance into Europe, from the UK to Germany and are regularly feeding it to my brother-in-law, everything from urinating in public pools to loss of places in the list of available housing in Sweden to being raped in France, etc. One report in particular caught their attention. A German woman was raped. The migrant men who were arrested for it apparently said that it was OK because of the way the woman was dressed - she was a whore and was asking for it.

This is the type of stuff that has my brother-in-law upset, especially since he and my sister expect to retire in Austria.

Quote from: Nonsensei on June 22, 2016, 05:03:17 PM
Engaging you is pointless. Your ignore any point you cant respond to, changing the argument as many times as it takes and inflating the size of your posts exponentially until the person you are arguing with is forced to choose between ending the discussion or dedicating a significant portion of their day to responding. However that doesn't mean I'm going to ignore you when your head is so clearly up your ass. My posts about you are not really for you, they are for other people who might read your posts. You are one of the most toxic posters here, incapable of conceiving of a situation in which you are wrong about anything, and steadily ramping up the irrelevance and nastiness in the content of your posts until your opponent reaches the point where continuing holds no value, at which point you declare victory.

So you are a warning sign hoping to be some sort of a censorship for the 'poor stupid people' -obviously that's how you see others here- who cannot make up their minds for themselves against the long post writing, evil drunkenshoe who has a thing or two to say about almost everything to your frustration? How do you get that kind of inferiority complex, low esteem and bitterness, Nonsensei? Are there any self confident, high esteemed, assertive men or women -ESP. women- who are comfortable conflicting with others loudly in some public forum that you don't find 'toxic' or threatening? I pretty much doubt that.

What you are doing is uttering a childish, passive agressive one liners to a poster that frustrates you badly, because you just don't like what she is saying because of who she is. I won't even say you feel this way because you don't agree with me, because you do agree with me on a lot of things I say. You just hate that a woman -yes first this before everything, don't come back to me with blame of 'you are victimising yourself', I don't feel like a victim, far from it- from some little bakcwards country, uttering some blunt bashing criticism to yours. 

So stop making up absurd excuses about me. This is about you being offended as always.


Tl; dr: You are a low esteemed, bitter man drowning in inferiority complex with nothing better to do than following every post of a foriegn woman just to get worked up about your usual daily hatred against everything that bothers you and keep them alive. If you put half the energy and time you do in social media blogs and vlogs about bullshit and 'how nasty is drunkenshoe' in the right place, you would get a life. But that's the actual nasty, scary thing isn't it? Then you'd have to deal with things. It's comfortable to work up some hatred against some fantasy evil character you built in your head. Well that 'fuel' fucks up the machine and it is highly taxing on the personality. Heads up.

Quote from: marom1963 on June 23, 2016, 03:40:09 AM
My brother-in-law's family are upper-class Austrians, very well to do. Naturally, they themselves have not had anything happen to them.

Yeah well. Pretty much self explanatory. Ivory tower.

QuoteNot much has happened in Austria - but they attribute that to the closing of the borders and the massing of Austrian troops at the borders and the building of fences along the Italian border and the Hungarian border.

Migrant flow has been on for decades. Nothing of significance happened before closing of borders either.

QuoteAustrians in general despise Angela Merkel: they deem her some sort of devil who is ready to open Europe up to the Third World and allow in a flood of the destitute to take away good paying jobs by people who are willing to work for less - a corporate plot against the high standard of living that most in Europe enjoy. They don't want to see Europe become a Third World continent, much as the United States has become.

See that's the exact equivelant of extreme right republican propaganda in Europe. Recognise it for what it is. Immigrants are not good for giant corporates in Europe. Workers in Europe have high standards and rights and pay according to rest of the world. Corporates have far more cheap, disposable worker masses in far east and anywhere available.

Europe is not breeding, has not been breeding enough for a long time. Market is shrinking. World resources are shrinking. China will devour the world. Without opening and transforming how long do you think Europe is going to hold. It's doomed to perish. And that is a far more bitter end. If Europe gets down from its high and mighty horse to reality AND actually try to do something other than trying to enjoy a high life, it WILL survive with a lot in tact. Because tha high life in ivory is not real...it is a delusion in an hourglass beside it.

By the way, Europe has become Europe because of the policies and politics built on the Third World. It is Europe culturally and politcially in contrast to the Third World. There is no place called Europe in Earth's geography. It's invented and made in the last 200 years.

QuoteSo, they are collecting every report of rape, theft, vandalism, and displacement that is following in the wake of migrant entrance into Europe, from the UK to Germany and are regularly feeding it to my brother-in-law, everything from urinating in public pools to loss of places in the list of available housing in Sweden to being raped in France, etc.

Interestingly enough, when you stop taking everything given with face value and dig under sexual crimes reported supposedly inflating with the recent flow, you realise that there is nothing actually changed in significance before a decade or more than the usual demographic rise. We had threads about this before you came. It's became exhausted after a point, because people want to believe what they want to believe and I guess that's how the world turns. I shared the same beliefs and mostly blamed the islamic minorities and I still do think they are a problem unless assimilated, but after paying attention a little with putting the usual hatred aside, I got a better picture in more objective grounds.

Sweden was a rape capital in Europe in 80s too, because of the highly evolved culture it has the highest rape crime reporting statistic in the world. If you are interested in rape as a crime, in means of its nature in respect to the society and common conditions of human culture; anthropologically and in terms of law, you know that a rise in rape statistics depends on reporting alone. That's aside, Sweden has a completely different system of recording sexual abuse and rape. For example if a man rapes a woman a dozen times, it is not one file, but 12 files of rape crimes for prosecution. 

QuoteOne report in particular caught their attention. A German woman was raped. The migrant men who were arrested for it apparently said that it was OK because of the way the woman was dressed - she was a whore and was asking for it.

Yeah that's awful but not surprising or unique to muslim minorities. That's a fact of life for women. In fact this shouldn't be surprising for any Europeans who is aware of human reality and a little bit of their own culture. If you read about researchs on common attitudes of European people -men and women- on rape related to dress code and alcohol intake in the UK for example, you'd find a quite 'surprising' picture behind that self proclaimed high culture. I have posted some survey researches, I'll try to look for them, but I think you could find it if you are to be interested. But with experience of over a decade, these sites disappear and appear, get modified or changed according to the politcial climate with a media contorlled by a few corporates. I guess every knows that, but I cannot see how much of the gap people are actually aware in the west. Not just this subject, about everything.

While a very big majority of people have no idea of the rape crimes in their countries did you know that 54 % UK women think that women are to be held responsible when they are raped? Women are usually more likley to blame women for rape than men.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1251040/Rape-Its-fault-victims-say-50-women.html

There is a brief summary. The detailed picture is far more upsetting, but it is not my aim to do that, but just give a rough idea.

QuoteHalf of women think that rape victims are to blame for their attack, a study has shown.

More than one in ten said that dancing provocatively, flirting or wearing revealing clothing made them partly responsible.
This blame culture is deterring victims from reporting the crime, according to the sexual assault clinics that carried out the poll.
Alarmingly, they also found that one in three men claimed they didn't think it was rape if they made their partner have sex when they didn't want to.
Thirteen per cent of men admitted having sex with a partner who was too drunk to know what was happening.
The poll of 1,000 adults found that 54 per cent of women believe rape victims should be held accountable for their attack.
Women were more likely than men to blame victims, with those aged between 18 and 24 the most likely to judge.
Twenty-four per cent of this age group said wearing a short skirt, accepting a drink or having a conversation with the rapist made victims partly responsible.
Nearly a fifth of women thought the victim was at fault if she went back to the attacker's house, while more than a tenth (13 per cent) said someone who had been dancing in a provocative way or flirting should be prepared for the consequences.
The Wake Up To Rape report also found that 14 per cent of women believe most rape claims are made up.

QuoteThis is the type of stuff that has my brother-in-law upset, especially since he and my sister expect to retire in Austria.

No offence, but I pertty much doubt if your brother in law has any idea about the real face of sexual abuse and rape in Eruopean culture or in his country before this was made into a special issue. The examples can be multiplied, but there is no need. Anyone who wants to get to  the bottom of it, they can. But that requires putting the bullshi aside.

Rape is an abhorrent crime and a reality of life. It always exists. But the claim that the minorities with some opposite culture boosting this into a level of extreme danger and responsible for distrupting life is just a fucking politics campaign and a hoax. And it worked, because it is perfect and just sexual crimes being used as a political tool here should tell you a lot about how the host culture is not much different. It went up to so ridiculous levels, there are articles 'informing' Europeans that 1 in every 4 women will be raped in Sweeden in the next decade. If you take that as something real these states should declare state of emergency I guess. Same with Norway...after that authorities in Oslo and Stockholm felt the need to make an explanation and put out information against the campaign. Nobody listens. Ironically, it's dismissed as 'politics'. It's not beneficial for people to believe in this. Everything real is so burried deep down as a part of UK leave campaign, people think you are some sort of a terrorist if you put this approach forward...not to mention if you are living in a muslim country certainly you are being 'apologetic' and 'biased' and that's why you don't agree with them.

The cultural gap between Continental Europe and Scandinavian countries is pretty big that is something most Europeans don't get -don't want to get- and the ones that get it don't talk about it. Not to mention the place in American culture -which is more backwards than both others that mentioned- and media in this picture and how things get reported into news and turned into FACTS perfectly determined the up coming mess. If this don't die down, people will die as a result in future riots because of media hyped bullshit for nothing. And then everyone will start blaming each other with 'how the fuck that happened?!'.

[Another example to put this in perspective. This cultural hierarchy between those 3 culture is about rape culture. But it is different with racism issue. Contrary to common belief, USA has actually the least racist culture compared to Western cultures overall, but there is always this perception management -pretty much same with what is being done with the other case- the usual media combined with the other domestic issues in the US draws the impression that home of racism is USA in the West. This is a fucking lie. The amount of nonwhite people jailed in the UK is 9 times of the amount in the US.]

Overall, there is NOT many differences between European culture and the Islamic one when it comes to blaming the victim of rape for a woman for dress code or with other 'reasons' for rape. Most Western people think in terms of certain convictions as if certain issues don't exist in their culture to shape their own, as if their societies exist out of human reality of general human culture. Because there is a constantly underlined contrast between them and the rest of the world. That what Europe means after all. Well, needlessly to say they don't exist out of human reality.

It's a belief system like others that runs on entitlement and solipsism inherent in human culture manipulated-exploited by media and politics going through its highs and lows and sometimes crisis' like these. Europe can be more secular in terms of secularised against Abrahamic religions, that doesn't make it ciivlised or secularised from national, political and economical cults. Actually under these circumstances the lack of the former just makes bigger space for others.

Quote from: marom1963 on June 23, 2016, 03:40:09 AM
My brother-in-law's family are upper-class Austrians, very well to do. Naturally, they themselves have not had anything happen to them. Not much has happened in Austria - but they attribute that to the closing of the borders and the massing of Austrian troops at the borders and the building of fences along the Italian border and the Hungarian border. Austrians in general despise Angela Merkel: they deem her some sort of devil who is ready to open Europe up to the Third World and allow in a flood of the destitute to take away good paying jobs by people who are willing to work for less - a corporate plot against the high standard of living that most in Europe enjoy. They don't want to see Europe become a Third World continent, much as the United States has become. So, they are collecting every report of rape, theft, vandalism, and displacement that is following in the wake of migrant entrance into Europe, from the UK to Germany and are regularly feeding it to my brother-in-law, everything from urinating in public pools to loss of places in the list of available housing in Sweden to being raped in France, etc. One report in particular caught their attention. A German woman was raped. The migrant men who were arrested for it apparently said that it was OK because of the way the woman was dressed - she was a whore and was asking for it.

This is the type of stuff that has my brother-in-law upset, especially since he and my sister expect to retire in Austria.

Marom, I was born and raised in Austria before I came to Canada at age 28, 33 years ago. I concur with your post completely. The rape you mentioned is a daily occurrence in Germany and Austria. At the new years celebrations in Cologne, 90 women have been sexually assaulted by Muslim immigrants. Just yesterday a 13 year old girl has been raped by a Muslim at a public pool in Vienna.
Not only are the budgets of these countries strained to the max (women with many children on welfare, schooling, health care, policing etc.) but these newcomers want to live by their rules, stifle free speech and freedom of the press and treat women as something to be taken if desired. Crime rates are through the roof and jails are overcrowded.
In France, Muslims will have majority voting power in less than two generations. Guess who they will be voting for. Other European countries are right behind. It is a cultural take over by any means necessary. If you look up the word "Taquiya" you'll see what I mean. The 'sacred deceit'. It means deceiving people (Islam a religion of peace) to advance Islam until a world wide caliphate is established.
My friends who were laughing at me when I emigrated to Canada, are not laughing anymore. Europe is a powder keg waiting to go off. When it happens, not if, all will be affected. But it seems to me much of the information is not getting through over here. And not much desire to find out. Too bad, we should learn from history not to ignore the obvious.

Neither Rome nor the Sublime Porte, were built in a day.  Sometimes you have to try again and again.  Everyone thinks they should live like millionaires, and are prepared to make crime and war to make it happen, if more conventional means are not immediately successful.  This is a fundamental rule of economics ... not just politics.  The elite live like millionaires, because they are.  And they have no intention of adding to their number, unless you are family or a close friend.  That is called the social contract ... where the elite take out a contract on your livelihood, and later on your life.

I'm curious about something, in human population a generation is what 20 to 30 years range? France is 66 milion and muslims are what 4 million?

What is this fertility rate -and human growth rate,lol, considering voting requires a certain age- that will make muslims the majority vote in 60 years in France?

Accordig to eurostat's page France seems to have the highest fertility rate in Europe. I am guessing it is not caused by a few million muslims alone,lol.

So how will this happen? Mitosis?

My sister and brother-in-law will be going back to Vienna for Christmas. They will resume their search for their retirement home. They are planning to get a nice little flat in central Vienna, near to my brother-in-law's family. If they find the one that they want, they will put down a deposit.
My sister has been assiduous in her study of German; she and my brother-in-law are always chattering away in German now. I understand German very well - when I hear it or read it - but, odd, I have found that speaking German is difficult when you've never had the practice. "Come se dice in lingua tedesca?" "How do you say in German?" I'm always asking my sister in Italian! - especially since my brother-in-law speaks the Viennese dialect of German, which is somewhat different to the Berlin radio stations that I normally listen to ...

I'm going to run some of this stuff by my brother-in-law. I can see his face now. He's conservative to begin with. He came to this country w/nothing, not even English, and made himself quite well-to-do - which is why his father forgave him for disobedience. A trained chemical engineer - the profession his father had chosen for him - my brother-in-law wanted to be anything but. Here's the rub - my brother-in-law climbed the ladder and jumped the hoops and did everything that is required to be here legally. He has NO sympathy for "illegals." And he classes the migrants as just that. "Who asked these people to come? Who invited them? They show up and expect us to roll out the red carpet as if they are long lost relatives. They should have shot the first few, so the rest would have turned around and gone home. Let them clean up their own shit hole, rather than come here and turn Europe into a pig sty."

The miracle of the exponential function ... if one trend line is less than another, but has a higher rate of increase ... it is inevitable that the two will reverse positions, the lesser will overtake the greater.  People are notoriously bad at estimating ... so probably people now, overestimate how soon a higher immigrant doubling rate will allow the immigrant descendants to overtake the prior population with a lower doubling rate.  But it will happen  The greater the influx of immigrants, the greater their doubling rate is greater than that of the prior population, the sooner they will become the majority.  I think Europe has one chance only, to civilize these immigrants (many of whom probably already are civilized) before they become the majority.  One way to reduce their impact, would be if the prior population would massively intermarry with the immigrants, and raise the next generation as Europeans not ME folk.

Quote from: marom1963 on June 23, 2016, 05:36:49 PM
My sister and brother-in-law will be going back to Vienna for Christmas. They will resume their search for their retirement home. They are planning to get a nice little flat in central Vienna, near to my brother-in-law's family. If they find the one that they want, they will put down a deposit.
My sister has been assiduous in her study of German; she and my brother-in-law are always chattering away in German now. I understand German very well - when I hear it or read it - but, odd, I have found that speaking German is difficult when you've never had the practice. "Come se dice in lingua tedesca?" "How do you say in German?" I'm always asking my sister in Italian! - especially since my brother-in-law speaks the Viennese dialect of German, which is somewhat different to the Berlin radio stations that I normally listen to ...

I'm going to run some of this stuff by my brother-in-law. I can see his face now. He's conservative to begin with. He came to this country w/nothing, not even English, and made himself quite well-to-do - which is why his father forgave him for disobedience. A trained chemical engineer - the profession his father had chosen for him - my brother-in-law wanted to be anything but. Here's the rub - my brother-in-law climbed the ladder and jumped the hoops and did everything that is required to be here legally. He has NO sympathy for "illegals." And he classes the migrants as just that. "Who asked these people to come? Who invited them? They show up and expect us to roll out the red carpet as if they are long lost relatives. They should have shot the first few, so the rest would have turned around and gone home. Let them clean up their own shit hole, rather than come here and turn Europe into a pig sty."

Christmas is a beautiful time in Vienna. But retiring there? Not sure they know what they are getting into. Things have changed and not for the better.
Your brother in law is right, I agree with him on the immigration issue. Let qualified trades people in but be selective.

Viennese dialect is completely different from high German; it's almost a different language.

I haven't been back for a few years and have no desire to do so; I'd rather have folks visiting me here in Canada. It's out of control over there and getting worse. Empires/cultures come and go but having religious fanatics (and moderates) taking over a continent in the 21st century is tragedy.
I am comfortable with my age and hope I don't witness the shit hitting the fan.

Did you get the PM?

Quote from: Baruch on June 23, 2016, 06:14:21 PM
The miracle of the exponential function ... if one trend line is less than another, but has a higher rate of increase ... it is inevitable that the two will reverse positions, the lesser will overtake the greater.  People are notoriously bad at estimating ... so probably people now, overestimate how soon a higher immigrant doubling rate will allow the immigrant descendants to overtake the prior population with a lower doubling rate.  But it will happen  The greater the influx of immigrants, the greater their doubling rate is greater than that of the prior population, the sooner they will become the majority.  I think Europe has one chance only, to civilize these immigrants (many of whom probably already are civilized) before they become the majority.  One way to reduce their impact, would be if the prior population would massively intermarry with the immigrants, and raise the next generation as Europeans not ME folk.

Actually any numbers available are at least 18 months old, a lot has changed since but the numbers are rather conservative. Most web sites are actually a few years old.

The Q'ran is very clear about marriages and interbreeding. No 'Kaffir' (unbelievers) friends, associates or marriages.

The cat is out of the bag. Thanks to Ms. Merkel and a German guilt complex from WWII, the mess is gigantic and irreversible. I don't think Europe is ever going to recover financially and culturally. I am reading their newspapers every day and can see the revolt of the masses brewing. People are getting fed up and the right wing parties are experiencing a revival. My contacts are telling me that resistance groups are starting up everywhere. Germany let in the equivalent of 7% of their population as immigrants so far. Other countries are not far behind. That would be something like 25 million immigrants to the US. Insane and unsustainable.

I liked Vienna. First because I love classical music. I like that central Europe's too tidy, cute structure. I have just seen Salzburg and Vienna in Austria though.

Nothing happened to the dome of Secession Building in WWII, nothing is going to happen to Austria for a very long time, don't worry.

Quote from: marom1963 on June 23, 2016, 05:36:49 PM
He's conservative to begin with. He came to this country w/nothing, not even English, and made himself quite well-to-do - which is why his father forgave him for disobedience. A trained chemical engineer - the profession his father had chosen for him - my brother-in-law wanted to be anything but. Here's the rub - my brother-in-law climbed the ladder and jumped the hoops and did everything that is required to be here legally. He has NO sympathy for "illegals." And he classes the migrants as just that. "Who asked these people to come? Who invited them? They show up and expect us to roll out the red carpet as if they are long lost relatives. They should have shot the first few, so the rest would have turned around and gone home. Let them clean up their own shit hole, rather than come here and turn Europe into a pig sty."

Your brother in law sounds like an extreme right wing douche bag. Ordinary fascist.

And you think a man who says something like "They should have shot the first few, so the rest would have turned around and gone home" can have a remotely healthy take on this situation?

How much shit you are full of yourself, marom? And Baruch of course as he seems to like the solution.

Quote from: drunkenshoe on June 24, 2016, 03:31:57 AM
Your brother in law sounds like an extreme right wing douche bag. Ordinary fascist.

And you think a man who says something like "They should have shot the first few, so the rest would have turned around and gone home" can have a remotely healthy take on this situation?

How much shit you are full of yourself, marom? And Baruch of course as he seems to like the solution.

So, hate the messenger - what can I say?I've been diplomatic to say the least in posting the views I've heard from Austrians in general. From what I understand, speaking out against the migrants can get one in trouble for hate speech in many places in Europe; otherwise, the volume of objection would be ratcheted way up, especially Germany. This is what I have heard. Am I there? No. Do I know otherwise? No. I'm just giving the other side of it - as it was given to me.

Quote from: marom1963 on June 24, 2016, 05:50:14 AM
So, hate the messenger - what can I say?I've been diplomatic to say the least in posting the views I've heard from Austrians in general. From what I understand, speaking out against the migrants can get one in trouble for hate speech in many places in Europe; otherwise, the volume of objection would be ratcheted way up, especially Germany. This is what I have heard. Am I there? No. Do I know otherwise? No. I'm just giving the other side of it - as it was given to me.

I don't hate you. On the contrary. My snap was due to your first post that gave the impression that these people had some legitimate grounds within a moderate thought rather than the typical genocidal extreme right wingers. I have no pity for right wing of any kind, esp. high class. Nothin will affect any of them anywhere in the world. It will affect teh people. Real ones.

Yes, EU is far more politically correct about certain issues than compared to US. And the states are not as powerful over their own as it is in the US.

Quote from: drunkenshoe on June 23, 2016, 01:38:48 PM
I'm curious about something, in human population a generation is what 20 to 30 years range? France is 66 milion and muslims are what 4 million?

What is this fertility rate -and human growth rate,lol, considering voting requires a certain age- that will make muslims the majority vote in 60 years in France?

Accordig to eurostat's page France seems to have the highest fertility rate in Europe. I am guessing it is not caused by a few million muslims alone,lol.

So how will this happen? Mitosis?

A birthrate of 8.1 compared to 1.36. And I thought this to be simple math. Apparently not.

I understand your motivation of painting a rosy picture of the EU, far removed from reality. Turkey wants to be a member of the EU and get rid of as many refugees as possible. I truly hope the EU will not let Turkey in. Visa requirement stays and Erdogan can fuck himself in the ear. This idiot calls members of parliament in Germany of turkish descent 'having tainted blood'. I thought that line of thinking died in 1945 but this autocrat keeps this bullshit alive and well. Suing a German comedian for making fun of him is another sign of a humorless blow hard.
But naturally Turkey wants to ship immigrants to the EU. They are a burden to the economy, which is already strained. 11% unemployment vs. 6% in Germany.

Your rhetoric of a right wing agenda from posters here is a moot point. I was a Marxist for many years and still am on the left fringes of politics. What I can't stand is bullshit superstition (religion) taking over secular and free societies. Malmo Sweden is a prime example of that. Other cities as well. Malmo is already 50% Muslim. Half the city is a no go zone for police and fire crews. If they dare to enter, they are assaulted and pelted with rocks or spat at. That's how grateful they are for letting them into the country, giving them housing and welfare and schooling for their brood.
I don't have to be politically correct and can call the whole situation for what it is: a slow and steady change to a theocracy under sharia. You can deny that all you want, it won't change the reality of it.

Quote from: reasonist on June 24, 2016, 10:09:04 AM
A birthrate of 8.1 compared to 1.36. And I thought this to be simple math. Apparently not.

I get the math. That's not my problem.

QuoteI understand your motivation of painting a rosy picture of the EU, far removed from reality.

LOL I am drawing the darkest picture, what rosy? I am saying from the beginning that EU actually has never lived in that rosy picture they thought they live in.

QuoteTurkey wants to be a member of the EU and get rid of as many refugees as possible. I truly hope the EU will not let Turkey in.

See, this is a very good example that you don't know the first thing about EU politics 101.

Turkey-EU relationship has never been a real one and never even taken seriously by either side. It's a process started to westernise Turkey as it is a muslim country, a margrave country at the gate. Nothing else.

What's more, 65 % of the population wants the membership deal to be drawn back. But you don't even hear bout this, because you are only reading yourselves up there. you don't know anything about the rest of the world and living in a delusion.

QuoteVisa requirement stays and Erdogan can fuck himself in the ear.

We'd appreciate madly, if you did that for us.

QuoteThis idiot calls members of parliament in Germany of turkish descent 'having tainted blood'. I thought that line of thinking died in 1945 but this autocrat keeps this bullshit alive and well. Suing a German comedian for making fun of him is another sign of a humorless blow hard.

And? He is a religious dictator. What do you expect him to do, write a love poem to comedian? You started to make no sense.

QuoteBut naturally Turkey wants to ship immigrants to the EU. They are a burden to the economy, which is already strained. 11% unemployment vs. 6% in Germany.

They can do a lot worse. That's what Auntie Merkel gets but stuck up EU don't. Let's hope not.

Over all you got zero from EU economics 101 along with basic politics too.

Joinning EU would bankrupt Turkey. It would harm the economy in an irrversible way, as it did Greece, only WORSE.

You are dancing to your own tune. Nobody here gives a fuck about EU membership. Hasn't for a looong time. It doesn't even get to prime news anymore. Merkel-Erdogan deal was a mutual sham deal and it already broke up as it was expected.

There have been many of those deals before, you haven't heard about them, because there wasn't a campaign; a political gain related to those. You know about this one because it was a bargain chip.

QuoteYour rhetoric of a right wing agenda from posters here is a moot point. I was a Marxist for many years and still am on the left fringes of politics. What I can't stand is bullshit superstition (religion) taking over secular and free societies. Malmo Sweden is a prime example of that. Other cities as well. Malmo is already 50% Muslim. Half the city is a no go zone for police and fire crews. If they dare to enter, they are assaulted and pelted with rocks or spat at. That's how grateful they are for letting them into the country, giving them housing and welfare and schooling for their brood.
I don't have to be politically correct and can call the whole situation for what it is: a slow and steady change to a theocracy under sharia. You can deny that all you want, it won't change the reality of it.

My rhetoric? :lol: More than half of the UK voted out from EU as a result of those toxic media campaigns, conspiracy theories and lies and it seems they are going down the hill breaking their country apart. One of the biggest economies in the world shot itself in its knee cap over a night.

You are a scared right winger who cannot see beyond his nose. You don't know anything about world politics or economy or sociology. Your opinion is based on a half witted conspiracy theory that religious conservatives keep firing up to secure the lash on the Christian herd voting for them.

You have been living in a pink delusion sphere and creating grand fantasy monster tales NOW on the way down to reality. With the majority of the West. The civilsaition and the world you thought that would stand 'forever' actually never existed.

:arrow: If EU does not get sensible and realistic; start to produce real, prudent, farsighted policies it is going to be very bad when this scare-warmongering agitation finally meets with the worst economic crash of EU in history. People are going to kill each other in streets. They are going to watch the flames from freaking Iceland.

You are right; I have no clue. You know it all. Thank you for posting here and educating us idiots. As long as it feeds your ego, all is well. However, your insecurity shows by personal attacks of posters. You can disagree with someone but ridiculing the messengers is a sign of emotional weakness.
I have shown all the proof one can handle; you don't have to concur and stay with your contradictory nonsense. To go into all the things you wrongfully noted would take pages and is wasting my time. So here's just a couple of reality checks for ya. You stay in your bubble, I stay with reality.

:arrow: If EU does not get sensible and realistic; start to produce real, prudent, farsighted policies it is going to be very bad when this scare-warmongering agitation finally meets with the worst economic crash of EU in history. People are going to kill each other in streets. They are going to watch the flames from freaking Iceland.

Really? When I wrote that in the other thread a few posts ago, you told us that all is well in the EU. No danger, no political turmoil.
From your post:
:arrow: Europe is NOT imploding. UK is not living the EU, I could be wrong of course, but I don't think so. Refugees are not invading Europe. USA is not going to be seized by some muslim cult. Calm down.

Hit the nail on the head. I rest my case

Quote from: reasonist on June 24, 2016, 11:17:06 AM
You are right; I have no clue. You know it all. Thank you for posting here and educating us idiots. As long as it feeds your ego, all is well. However, your insecurity shows by personal attacks of posters. You can disagree with someone but ridiculing the messengers is a sign of emotional weakness.
I have shown all the proof one can handle; you don't have to concur and stay with your contradictory nonsense. To go into all the things you wrongfully noted would take pages and is wasting my time. So here's just a couple of reality checks for ya. You stay in your bubble, I stay with reality.

:arrow: If EU does not get sensible and realistic; start to produce real, prudent, farsighted policies it is going to be very bad when this scare-warmongering agitation finally meets with the worst economic crash of EU in history. People are going to kill each other in streets. They are going to watch the flames from freaking Iceland.

Really? When I wrote that in the other thread a few posts ago, you told us that all is well in the EU. No danger, no political turmoil.
From your post:
:arrow: Europe is NOT imploding. UK is not living the EU, I could be wrong of course, but I don't think so. Refugees are not invading Europe. USA is not going to be seized by some muslim cult. Calm down.

Hit the nail on the head. I rest my case

The first arrow is about the inflated, hyped up toxic rhetoric and media campaigns about the so called refugee crisis that should be stopped; prudent, sensible policies that just proved how denagerous with UK referendum last night.

The second arrow was written to you as a reaction to your meaningless panic.

And they are both telling the same thing in different levels. OK?

reasonist, I am sorry that my expression style is not to your liking. And I agree with you that it lacks that graceful political correctness you probably are used to. But that's how I write. I'm trying to be brief and blunt with a second language I have never used in real life. I am not trying to teach anything to anyone or think you are an idiot. If I think you are an idiot I'll tell you. If you are going to get into an offended teenager pose every time I respond to you, we can't reach anywhere. It's not my intention to insult you either. This is not honey and you are not a fly. I don't have an agenda. If we are going to communicate we need to communicate briefly and bluntly without bullshit. So please don't pitch that usual bullshit to me. Just write your opinion. 

Ahh, so what is it now,

the worst economic crash of EU in history. People are going to kill each other in streets. They are going to watch the flames from freaking Iceland. 

or is it

Europe is NOT imploding. UK is not living the EU

make up your mind.

I don't care what your language is, English is not my mother tongue either. That doesn't mean I have to insult and ridicule people and their opinions. It is not about your 'style', it is about insults. Brief and blunt is OK, ridiculing people is not. Should be simple enough, even if English is not your first language. Respect does not depend on a certain language; it depends on the dignity of the writer. Maybe time for you to mature and respect others.

I don't bullshit. I state facts. Facts that you dispute and deny. So be it. Doesn't change a speck of truth. I know what's going on in Europe from many different sources and I call it for what it is. Surely then it must be a right wing conspiracy or a fascist agenda according to you. Please stop embarrassing yourself by pretending to know what you think others don't.

Quote from: reasonist on June 24, 2016, 11:51:54 AM
Ahh, so what is it now,

the worst economic crash of EU in history. People are going to kill each other in streets. They are going to watch the flames from freaking Iceland. 

or is it

Europe is NOT imploding. UK is not living the EU

make up your mind.

I don't care what your language is, English is not my mother tongue either. That doesn't mean I have to insult and ridicule people and their opinions. It is not about your 'style', it is about insults. Brief and blunt is OK, ridiculing people is not. Should be simple enough, even if English is not your first language. Respect does not depend on a certain language; it depends on the dignity of the writer. Maybe time for you to mature and respect others.

I don't bullshit. I state facts. Facts that you dispute and deny. So be it. Doesn't change a speck of truth. I know what's going on in Europe from many different sources and I call it for what it is. Surely then it must be a right wing conspiracy or a fascist agenda according to you. Please stop embarrassing yourself by pretending to know what you think others don't.

How did I ridicule you?! You, with a very TYPICAL WESTERN CONDESCENSION informed me that there was an agenda behind my 'rhetoric' that my opinion is tied to the position of the country I live in. That I am following an agenda of some fucking government I have spent the last 13 years voting AGAINST.  Cut the crap. Stop acting like a child. 

And I told you that you don't know the first thing on what you are talking about, because you don't.

Why didn't you copy-paste the whole sentences I wrote, reasonist? You think you are being clever or something? I wrote "I could be wrong but I don't think so" yesterday BEFORE the refrendum and with the other I said IF. Suddenly, now I am the fortuneteller that failed? And I said that because I didn't think they would react this stupidly -like the rest of the world and EU- and UK leaving EU ONLY shows that what you call 'my rethoric' actually has a heavier weight than you think. Not the other way around.

This was what I wrote:

QuoteIf EU does not get sensible and realistic; start to produce real, prudent, farsighted policies it is going to be very bad when this scare-warmongering agitation finally meets with the worst economic crash of EU in history.People are going to kill each other in streets. They are going to watch the flames from freaking Iceland.

:arrow: UK voted OUT because they were swallowed by the propaganda that this is going to get them out of the so called refugee crisis, because the whole LEAVE campaign was based on scaring people with hyped up inflated horror stories of muslim immigrants. Fucking Lie. They are neither out from the crisis, nor there is a horror story going on.  Extreme right winger Leave campaign politcians OPENLY lied to people. We have a fresh thread on this, did you read it?

:arrow: In a few years when they realise what kind of a mistake this was, if the same kind of scaremongering campaign is ON, this will be highly dangerous for people from both sides; a ground for a big social explosion in the UK. If they cannot fix the economy and make everyone happy, it will be very bad.

Now, I am curious which part of this post you will cut-copy and paste and turn upside down.

Thanks for proving my point. You are really clueless but pretending. Your overwhelming (?) support on this forum shows that you cannot have a decent conversation or discussion. So OK, in your true fashion: you don't have a fucking clue about what you are talking about!
Whole sentences or not, it shows that you are full of contradiction and bullshit. It must be a rush for you to be a contrarian just for the sake of it. You have an opinion, I have facts. Simple for most, not for you. So stay in your pitiful bubble of ignorance.

Quote from: Nonsensei on June 20, 2016, 11:18:43 AM
LOL even in a post that has nothing to do with the United States you still manage to express your disdain for America.

I hear that a lot--'disdain for the US',  when I discuss or bring up the actual history of incidents from US history.  The conservatives love to use the word 'patriot' for all they consider to be loyal to their version of what the the US had done throughout history; they just rubber stamp what the govt. does and has done.  To me, a patriot is one who holds the govt. accountable for their actions, not one who waves the flag at every govt. action.  So, the Patriot Act, for example, I think of as the Unpatriot act.  It goes against all that we are supposed to stand for.  The war in Iraq was also very unpartiotic and I thought so from the beginning.  Bush is, in my eyes, a war criminal and should be resting in prison right now.  Actually I do have a great deal of disdain for the US--many of it's actions deserve it.  I also have great love of my country and would love to see it live up to it's billing as a just and law abiding nation. 

Quote from: reasonist on June 24, 2016, 12:44:46 PM
Thanks for proving my point. You are really clueless but pretending. Your overwhelming (?) support on this forum shows that you cannot have a decent conversation or discussion. So OK, in your true fashion: you don't have a fucking clue about what you are talking about!
Whole sentences or not, it shows that you are full of contradiction and bullshit. It must be a rush for you to be a contrarian just for the sake of it. You have an opinion, I have facts. Simple for most, not for you. So stay in your pitiful bubble of ignorance.

Oy vey...Sigh. I have been writing about the possible consequences of the UK muslim refugees horror campaign for months now, reasonist. But I was wrong. I have never thought it would be this bad. But may be a short lived riot. Some isolated events. So this is not the first time I have been talking about this subject. Nor my reactions to you are reflexive. I know I can be very cynical and really annoying. I don't mean it, but can't help it. I apologise for that. But you need to throw that aside and stop being offended and just talk.

Quote from: Mike Cl on June 24, 2016, 12:46:48 PM
I hear that a lot--'disdain for the US',  when I discuss or bring up the actual history of incidents from US history.  The conservatives love to use the word 'patriot' for all they consider to be loyal to their version of what the the US had done throughout history; they just rubber stamp what the govt. does and has done.  To me, a patriot is one who holds the govt. accountable for their actions, not one who waves the flag at every govt. action.  So, the Patriot Act, for example, I think of as the Unpatriot act.  It goes against all that we are supposed to stand for.  The war in Iraq was also very unpartiotic and I thought so from the beginning.  Bush is, in my eyes, a war criminal and should be resting in prison right now.  Actually I do have a great deal of disdain for the US--many of it's actions deserve it.  I also have great love of my country and would love to see it live up to it's billing as a just and law abiding nation.

May I like this post twice please?

Quote from: drunkenshoe on June 24, 2016, 03:32:06 PM
Oy vey...Sigh. I have been writing about the possible consequences of the UK muslim refugees horror campaign for months now, reasonist. But I was wrong. I have never thought it would be this bad. But may be a short lived riot. Some isolated events. So this is not the first time I have been talking about this subject. Nor my reactions to you are reflexive. I know I can be very cynical and really annoying. I don't mean it, but can't help it. I apologise for that. But you need to throw that aside and stop being offended and just talk.

Apology accepted. Let's try this again with adult conversation.
If I remember correctly, you live in a Muslim country. You must know the main premise of Islam, which is to establish a world wide Islamic caliphate by any means necessary. You must also be aware of 'Taquiya' or the scared deceit. This is exactly what is preached at the Madrassas, many of them financed by the Saudis all over Europe. Translated it means that all the lies and deceit are/is permissible as long as it advances Islam. Combine that with the hatred against western powers for bombing large swaths of the middle east and a birthrate 6 times compared to western Europe and the perfect storm is created. Immense infiltration and immigration, financially and politically unsustainable for certain, culture clash and a rabid sense of entitlement all contribute to a climate of hatred and resentment in Europe. Brexit was foremost motivated by the desire to curb immigration and maintain an Anglo Saxon culture. I firmly believe that the UK would have remained in the EU if immigration and integration would have worked in other EU countries. But it doesn't. It never will.
75% of all immigrant to Europe are single males in their prime. You can look that up. They have never seen a woman in a bikini, they haven't been tempted by alcohol in their homeland and have never experienced freedom of speech and of the press. All of a sudden they have to deal with women who are equal to men, shake hands (which many refuse) or confront them in superior positions. A culture shock of epic proportions. The results are here to see for everybody.
I am updated almost daily by friends and relatives in the old country and it's not a pretty picture. Ms. Merkel opened a can of worms that is now out of control and can't be reversed. Muslim population has surpassed the 10% threshold in some countries already and will be increasing exponentionally by birth rate and millions more emigrating to Europe in the coming years. Does anybody seriously think that all these people abandon their religion and integrate smoothly? Or would it make more sense to be forewarned and at least try to stem the flow, deport criminals and go after the Imams who preach hatred and intolerance towards Christians and other 'unbelievers'?

This is some real popcorn entertainment right here. [emoji23]


Fair and balanced (like Fox News).

Quote from: reasonist on June 24, 2016, 04:54:23 PM
Apology accepted. Let's try this again with adult conversation.
If I remember correctly, you live in a Muslim country. You must know the main premise of Islam, which is to establish a world wide Islamic caliphate by any means necessary. You must also be aware of 'Taquiya' or the scared deceit. This is exactly what is preached at the Madrassas, many of them financed by the Saudis all over Europe. Translated it means that all the lies and deceit are/is permissible as long as it advances Islam. Combine that with the hatred against western powers for bombing large swaths of the middle east and a birthrate 6 times compared to western Europe and the perfect storm is created. Immense infiltration and immigration, financially and politically unsustainable for certain, culture clash and a rabid sense of entitlement all contribute to a climate of hatred and resentment in Europe. Brexit was foremost motivated by the desire to curb immigration and maintain an Anglo Saxon culture. I firmly believe that the UK would have remained in the EU if immigration and integration would have worked in other EU countries. But it doesn't. It never will.
75% of all immigrant to Europe are single males in their prime. You can look that up. They have never seen a woman in a bikini, they haven't been tempted by alcohol in their homeland and have never experienced freedom of speech and of the press. All of a sudden they have to deal with women who are equal to men, shake hands (which many refuse) or confront them in superior positions. A culture shock of epic proportions. The results are here to see for everybody.
I am updated almost daily by friends and relatives in the old country and it's not a pretty picture. Ms. Merkel opened a can of worms that is now out of control and can't be reversed. Muslim population has surpassed the 10% threshold in some countries already and will be increasing exponentionally by birth rate and millions more emigrating to Europe in the coming years. Does anybody seriously think that all these people abandon their religion and integrate smoothly? Or would it make more sense to be forewarned and at least try to stem the flow, deport criminals and go after the Imams who preach hatred and intolerance towards Christians and other 'unbelievers'?

It seems we went completely different places, reasonist. Let's continue this when it comes up in another context.

Quote from: Hijiri Byakuren on June 24, 2016, 05:20:09 PM
This is some real popcorn entertainment right here. [emoji23]

Fair and balanced (like Fox News).

Well, I'm trying. And you are not helping.

Quote from: drunkenshoe on June 24, 2016, 08:26:49 PM
Well, I'm trying. And you are not helping.

I don't completely agree with either of you, so there's no real reason why I'd help.


Fair and balanced (like Fox News).

Quote from: reasonist on June 23, 2016, 06:17:40 PM
Christmas is a beautiful time in Vienna. But retiring there? Not sure they know what they are getting into. Things have changed and not for the better.
Your brother in law is right, I agree with him on the immigration issue. Let qualified trades people in but be selective.

Viennese dialect is completely different from high German; it's almost a different language.

I haven't been back for a few years and have no desire to do so; I'd rather have folks visiting me here in Canada. It's out of control over there and getting worse. Empires/cultures come and go but having religious fanatics (and moderates) taking over a continent in the 21st century is tragedy.
I am comfortable with my age and hope I don't witness the shit hitting the fan.

Did you get the PM?

I hope this is relevant enough, but are you familiar with Hamed Abdel-Samad? Very intelligent, German Ex-Muslim, and absolutely fearless in his critique of Islam; I've only recently heard of him, but he is wonderfully and brutally honest.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syDMRI-0Hk4

Quote from: reasonist on June 24, 2016, 04:54:23 PM
Apology accepted. Let's try this again with adult conversation.
If I remember correctly, you live in a Muslim country. You must know the main premise of Islam, which is to establish a world wide Islamic caliphate by any means necessary. You must also be aware of 'Taquiya' or the scared deceit. This is exactly what is preached at the Madrassas, many of them financed by the Saudis all over Europe. Translated it means that all the lies and deceit are/is permissible as long as it advances Islam. Combine that with the hatred against western powers for bombing large swaths of the middle east and a birthrate 6 times compared to western Europe and the perfect storm is created. Immense infiltration and immigration, financially and politically unsustainable for certain, culture clash and a rabid sense of entitlement all contribute to a climate of hatred and resentment in Europe. Brexit was foremost motivated by the desire to curb immigration and maintain an Anglo Saxon culture. I firmly believe that the UK would have remained in the EU if immigration and integration would have worked in other EU countries. But it doesn't. It never will.
75% of all immigrant to Europe are single males in their prime. You can look that up. They have never seen a woman in a bikini, they haven't been tempted by alcohol in their homeland and have never experienced freedom of speech and of the press. All of a sudden they have to deal with women who are equal to men, shake hands (which many refuse) or confront them in superior positions. A culture shock of epic proportions. The results are here to see for everybody.
I am updated almost daily by friends and relatives in the old country and it's not a pretty picture. Ms. Merkel opened a can of worms that is now out of control and can't be reversed. Muslim population has surpassed the 10% threshold in some countries already and will be increasing exponentionally by birth rate and millions more emigrating to Europe in the coming years. Does anybody seriously think that all these people abandon their religion and integrate smoothly? Or would it make more sense to be forewarned and at least try to stem the flow, deport criminals and go after the Imams who preach hatred and intolerance towards Christians and other 'unbelievers'?

I don't know what madness got into Angela Merkel - unless it was her having been an East German prior to reunification. But even that doesn't hold because neither Poland nor Russia opened their borders. Mr Putin would never have consented to such an influx of non-Russians into Russia. Nor should have Ms Merkel have consented to such an influx of non-Germans into Germany ... I couldn't go to Germany and take up residence there simply because I wanted to live there. Oh, true, my country is not war torn, blah, blah, blah ... So, who's next? The World is filled w/unfortunates. Is Germany prepared to sponsor all of them? ... I had looked forward to retirement in Italy. I can go there b/c 2 of my grandparents were Italian. But will Italy be worth going to in 10 years' time? I so wanted to live in Rome. I speak Italian. I saw myself strolling about the ruins w/my little pug dog on a leash ... I wouldn't need a job ... I'd not be a drain on the economy ... I'd be a plus to the economy ... I would have taken trips to France b/c I also speak French ... I've been to all 4 countries - Austria, Italy, France, and Germany. All beautiful places. So much to see, so much to do - so much to eat! Ah, Vienna - the food alone is worth the trip! The pastry!!! The sausages - the soups - the potato pancakes! The schnitzel!

So - even if it makes me into a monster - I DON'T want Europe turned into a war zone.
Europe has had enough war. If there's even the remotest chance that any of the migrants have come w/the idea of jihad, then I'd gladly toss ALL of them into the Mediterranean. Simple and as cruel as that.

Secularized, modernized, liberalized Muslims who wish to integrate into European society and learn European languages I do not mind. Bastards who want to live in enclaves under sharia law - deport them in droves.

Quote from: Hijiri Byakuren on June 24, 2016, 10:18:01 PM
I don't completely agree with either of you, so there's no real reason why I'd help.


Fair and balanced (like Fox News).

I didn't mean it that way. Nevermind.

At one time, I thought about a wonderful retirement in Mexico, learning more Spanish.  I wanted to visit Greece again.  The neoliberal crapification of all countries, means no retirement unless you are a millionaire, who can afford an island in the Bahamas, not far from your bank account in the Caymans.

Quote from: Baruch on June 25, 2016, 09:04:13 AM
At one time, I thought about a wonderful retirement in Mexico, learning more Spanish.  I wanted to visit Greece again.  The neoliberal crapification of all countries, means no retirement unless you are a millionaire, who can afford an island in the Bahamas, not far from your bank account in the Caymans.

Yes - every place except for the rich enclaves must be turned into a craphole. But the rich enclaves, well, those we mustn't touch.
I say that we stuff them full of refugees - let them be where the refugee camps and processing centers be set up. Then we'll see how quickly policy changes. People are STUPID. In our pretend democracies, the masses do have enough votes to force such policies on the rich - stuff the relocation camps in exclusive areas, so that the poor wretches will feel uplifted. Let them share in the wealthy environment! In fact, eminent domain, lawns above a certain size must be used for pitching refugee tents. The driveways along those lawns must house the portopotties that the refugees need. Wow! Overnight - policy shifted away from the open border. I wonder what happened ...

Quote from: Cocoa Beware on June 25, 2016, 02:24:41 AM
I hope this is relevant enough, but are you familiar with Hamed Abdel-Samad? Very intelligent, German Ex-Muslim, and absolutely fearless in his critique of Islam; I've only recently heard of him, but he is wonderfully and brutally honest.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syDMRI-0Hk4

Very interesting, thank you for posting that Cocoa. I agree with 99% of what he says but disagree that Islam is in decline. Not yet, it's growing fast actually. But his viewpoint is refreshingly honest, especially for a (lapsed) Muslim.