I was just wondering what people thought about this. Is the elimination of paper money and the implementation of microchipping the entire population going to be a good thing, or not so much? I can see a lot of good things as a result of this. It will be easier to catch criminals doing things they shouldn't be doing. When someone is going to the hospital and can't communicate, you can get all their info just by scanning their hand. People won't have to carry around car keys, house keys, etc. Those are just some of the positives I can think of. What about the negatives though? We would be losing rights.
Do you guys think the pros outweigh the cons, or do the cons outweigh the pros? Would you be ok with giving up some more of your rights if overall this is beneficial to society?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eob532iEpqk
Human beings don't like to think for themselves. They should be chipped, just like pets. And kenneled. No need for housing. Feed them dog food too. Most humans would benefit from being "fixed".
In a world where humans are just another annoying animal, there is no reason to treat them any different. I am not saying religion is counter to this ... we could worship Dog, and treat people the same as we do dogs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDkejTcSlY4
Quote from: FaithIsFilth on April 22, 2016, 11:25:01 AM
Would you be ok with giving up some more of your rights if overall this is beneficial to society?
No. Enough rights have been stripped from individuals in name of "security" to even contemplate such thing. I'm not willing to trade my freedom for someone comfort.
It's something else but look on the "war on drugs", allegedly waged for the good of society. Gov took away right to use certain substances and now persecute people whose only fault is using something deemed bad by self appointed guardians of the order. Apparently
Volenti non fit iniuria isn't way to go any longer.
The Clintons are from France:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcR7LgBVTNE
Our fearless leaders will only be chipped by potato ... not with silly-con. The Bush-u-lacs are similar, hence former President Pretzel Head ... suggesting we celebrate 9/11 with "mass consumption". They hate us for our grupnacks.
Criminals would find a way around it. They always do. The chip would just drive the evolution of crime to the next stage.
Better have it in a phone. I have ... issues of having a foreign body like a RFID chip in me.
But I bet Christians will have their panties in a bunch with calls of the "Number of the Beast" or some shit about a RFID chip.
Quote from: Blackleaf on April 23, 2016, 12:13:52 PM
Criminals would find a way around it. They always do. The chip would just drive the evolution of crime to the next stage.
Tell me how to tell the difference between citizen criminals and citizen politicians? I can't tell the difference. Yes, drive evolution to the next stage ... where my energy sphere containing my disembodied mind, fights it out with your energy sphere.
Quote from: Baruch on April 23, 2016, 02:23:09 PM
Tell me how to tell the difference between citizen criminals and citizen politicians? I can't tell the difference. Yes, drive evolution to the next stage ... where my energy sphere containing my disembodied mind, fights it out with your energy sphere.
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Quote from: FaithIsFilth on April 22, 2016, 11:25:01 AM
Do you guys think the pros outweigh the cons, or do the cons outweigh the pros? Would you be ok with giving up some more of your rights if overall this is beneficial to society?
Other than fast food lunches and occasional convenience store purchases, just about everything I buy now is trackable by someone. What rights would I be giving up that I haven't already?
Quote from: Johan on April 23, 2016, 03:07:52 PM
Other than fast food lunches and occasional convenience store purchases, just about everything I buy now is trackable by someone. What rights would I be giving up that I haven't already?
America post-racism ... next time there will be no free state to flee to, and everyone will have to pick cotton under the lash!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j47NWDB_xo0
Give up if you must, Uncle Tom ;-(
Quote from: Johan on April 23, 2016, 03:07:52 PM
Other than fast food lunches and occasional convenience store purchases, just about everything I buy now is trackable by someone. What rights would I be giving up that I haven't already?
They will be able to track you 24/7. See every place you've been. See where you are at every moment of every day. Things are not like this yet. Police can keep an eye on certain targeted people now, but with this they'll be able to know everyone's whereabouts at all times. Even with the Patriot Act and things like that, people still have a little bit of privacy left. You will have far less privacy after this is implemented. This grows the police state in a big way.
If some agency of the gob'ment wanted to know my whereabouts 24/7, they could very easily do that right now. So again, what right would I be giving up?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ArGZGruUoc
I would not mind the chip if the guv'ment was of random picks so that we could avoid the control of corps and billionaires.
Say, on June 1 of the election year, anyone who wanted to have a particular office showed up at a county place "x" where they dropped their name on a piece of paper into a big ole basket, and no name could go in without it being verified and with everyone watching. Then the big ole basket spun around and a random two-year old picked a name and then that name went to the state along with the other county names and again in front of everyone the names were verified and dropped in a basket and a random 2 year old picked a name and Voila we have a rep who is making more than they ever did before and they have the opportunity to a total of 8 years in the seat unless there is a 33% call for a revote in which the shit starts all over again.
The idea is that ole joe the barber or sam the bus driver would make a better rep than millionaires and they would actually care about the job because they only normally make 50 grand a year as opposed to 174,000 a year so they want to do a good job to get the entire 8 years of good money.
You have a guv'ment where the power cannot shift as it does not exist and maintaining a paid for government becomes a little more difficult.
At least, that how I envision it.
Quote from: Johan on April 24, 2016, 04:30:04 PM
If some agency of the gob'ment wanted to know my whereabouts 24/7, they could very easily do that right now. So again, what right would I be giving up?
Of course they can do it. That's exactly what I said in my post. You are arguing just to argue when we agree here. They don't have the resources to see where 320 million people are at every second. They have all the computer metadata, but people aren't being tracked at all times when they aren't online.
Quote from: FaithIsFilth on April 24, 2016, 04:46:48 PM
Of course they can do it. That's exactly what I said in my post. You are arguing just to argue when we agree here. They don't have the resources to see where 320 million people are at every second. They have all the computer metadata, but people aren't being tracked at all times when they aren't online.
You obviously care about the 320 million people every second thing and I don't discount that. But the fact remains that you clearly care about it and I clearly don't. So sell it to me. Why should I care? I'm being genuine, go into detail if you want.
Quote from: aitm on April 24, 2016, 04:44:04 PM
I would not mind the chip if the guv'ment was of random picks so that we could avoid the control of corps and billionaires.
Say, on June 1 of the election year, anyone who wanted to have a particular office showed up at a county place "x" where they dropped their name on a piece of paper into a big ole basket, and no name could go in without it being verified and with everyone watching. Then the big ole basket spun around and a random two-year old picked a name and then that name went to the state along with the other county names and again in front of everyone the names were verified and dropped in a basket and a random 2 year old picked a name and Voila we have a rep who is making more than they ever did before and they have the opportunity to a total of 8 years in the seat unless there is a 33% call for a revote in which the shit starts all over again.
The idea is that ole joe the barber or sam the bus driver would make a better rep than millionaires and they would actually care about the job because they only normally make 50 grand a year as opposed to 174,000 a year so they want to do a good job to get the entire 8 years of good money.
You have a guv'ment where the power cannot shift as it does not exist and maintaining a paid for government becomes a little more difficult.
At least, that how I envision it.
I like it. But it would never work. Almost no one would be able to put their livelihood on hold for up to 8 years while they serve the greater good. So almost no one would throw their hat in the ring except those with nothing else to lose. The rent is too damn high guy comes to mind. And while it makes for a nice fantasy to think government would run smoother and be more effective with those sorts of folks in office, my better judgement says otherwise.
Quote from: Johan on April 24, 2016, 07:07:32 PM
You obviously care about the 320 million people every second thing and I don't discount that. But the fact remains that you clearly care about it and I clearly don't. So sell it to me. Why should I care? I'm being genuine, go into detail if you want.
There is no selling it if you don't care about privacy.
What privacy? Where I choose to go... wait for it... in public?
Quote from: Johan on April 24, 2016, 09:15:21 PM
What privacy? Where I choose to go... wait for it... in public?
Europeans etc don't care what is in the Declaration of Independence or Constitution. Many Americans are more European than American. They are happy with the scraps King George will provide.
Quote from: Blackleaf on April 23, 2016, 02:45:39 PM
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Quote from: Johan on April 24, 2016, 09:15:21 PM
What privacy? Where I choose to go... wait for it... in public?
Ok, but at the moment, do Police not need to have some type of suspicion or some type of reason to follow someone around? They don't follow people around just for the hell of it. I know there are already cameras all around, and drones up in the skies, but tracking everyone 24/7 is going a bit too far in my opinion. Like Aitm said, if you knew that you had a government that was not likely to abuse this, then it might make sense for the people to be supportive of this. There are a lot of positives that come with this. If this was in place already though, would it not be used to target and lock up more blacks for drug crimes? Would it not be used by bigoted States to get transgender people in trouble for using the wrong washroom? If this was implemented somewhere like China or North Korea, would this not be massively abused by their government?
The US is N Korea ... we are too patriotic to notice. The Germans thought they were doing the right thing in WW II ... and we are no better than they are.
As long as the infinitely powered government is going after the monsters under your bed, you are all for this. Until your neighbor decides that you are the monster under his bed. Do I trust my neighbor? Hell no. Do I trust my government? Hell no. But that doesn't mean I live in fear of my neighbor or my government. We live in a jungle, and we are both predator and prey.
Bad idea.
Quote from: FaithIsFilth on April 25, 2016, 11:47:40 AM
Ok, but at the moment, do Police not need to have some type of suspicion or some type of reason to follow someone around? They don't follow people around just for the hell of it.
Probable cause is all that's required and it is incredibly easy to achieve.
QuoteI know there are already cameras all around, and drones up in the skies, but tracking everyone 24/7 is going a bit too far in my opinion.
Ok first off, putting an RFID chip in everyone's arm does not automatically equate to tracking everyone 24/7. I know you believe that's what will happen, but please remember that doing the first thing in no way guarantees the second.
You might be a little young for this, but I remember seeing miles of network cable being installed along a major toll road in NJ many years ago. It was a multi-year project and it paved the way for one of the first ez-pass toll collection systems to go operational. I can just about guarantee that if you were of age back then, you would have been one of the many who were yelling that you would never put an ez-pass in your car because gob'ment was going to use the time stamps from your tolls to prove that you were speeding and issue you tickets by mail. People SWORE on the graves of their dead relatives that is what the gob'ment had in mind by implementing the system.
And do you know how many speeding tickets have been issued based on EZ-Pass RFID data to date? G'head guess.... What's that? What's your guess? Zero you say? DING! DING! DING! DING! Winner winner chicken dinner. None nada zip on the moving violations.
Now that's not to say that EZ-Pass data has not been used in prosecuting criminal cases. On the contrary it most definitely has been used to help show whereabouts in murder cases and the like. Of course, its been used just as often to prove innocence as it has to prove guilt. You say that at 10:22 PM my client was bludgeoning the victim at her home in Ronkonkoma, but ladies and gentlemen of the jury, let the record show that my client's EZ-Pass data indicates he was passing through the toll plaza in Seaside Heights NJ at 9:47 PM that night...
So yeah, that. If we're going to go down the road of the big scary government wanting to know our every move 24/7, then we also have to go down the road of I no longer have to be so concerned that someone fitting my general description (out of shape late 40's balding white guy) is at this very moment 40 miles away from me committing some horrific crime that I will then become suspect of. And to that I say sign me the fuck up.
QuoteLike Aitm said, if you knew that you had a government that was not likely to abuse this, then it might make sense for the people to be supportive of this. There are a lot of positives that come with this.
Agreed and I think I just outlined some of those positives above.
QuoteIf this was in place already though, would it not be used to target and lock up more blacks for drug crimes?
Dunno. But your sole arguement here seems to be we can't allow this to happen because we can't trust the criminals in power. Well here's a couple of facts for you that I know you won't believe and I can't make you believe but history is history and facts are facts. There are not nearly as many criminals in power as you believe. And those that are in power suffer the consequenses of their actions as often as not.
Disagree all you like but that is what history has taught me. Therefore in my eyes, the negative that this would give those in power new abilities to abuse does not outweigh the positives that go along with it.
Obviously you feel differently and that's fine. But the tin-foil hat brigade was dead wrong on the ez-pass thing (and lots of other things) and I think they're dead wrong on this too.
Johan, one reason there aren't as many criminal in power as we would like to believe is they have have made it legal for them to do things it would be illegal for us to do. Want an example? Insider trading. Curious if it benefits them? On average the stock portfolios of US senators out perform those of hedge fund managers much less the rest of us poor smucks.
I don't disagree. But I stick by my original opinion on the topic. I really think it comes down to this. You either believe they're all out to get you or you do not. And I do not. Because my logic tells me that if they really were all out to get me, I would have been rotting in a cell long ago. And so would most of us.
"Probable cause is all that's required and it is incredibly easy to achieve."
The secret Patriot Act court has them covered ... probable cause has been issued against everyone ... preemptively. Stop thinking that Perry Mason is still in law practice. Also civil forfeiture ... you are guilty until you prove yourself innocent, meanwhile the cops can take your stuff ... for evidence.
So how much of your freedom will you give up ... so you aren't mistaken for a Crip? Even though you are White? If you aren't Black, this isn't an issue for you. Are you worried you might be mistaken for a different Red-Neck than you actually are? White-Priv much?
Quote from: Johan on April 25, 2016, 11:38:27 PM
I don't disagree. But I stick by my original opinion on the topic. I really think it comes down to this. You either believe they're all out to get you or you do not.
I don't believe they are out to get me. Most people in the thread don't seem to be big fans of getting a chip in their hands just yet, and they don't just think the government is out to get them personally. I think they see the potential for abuse. We don't have to be worried about the government targeting us specifically, but what's wrong with worrying about the government targeting others? It has been admitted now that the war on drugs was started to hurt blacks and lefties. That is no conspriracy theory. The government targeting certain groups is just reality, and it is an admitted reality at this point. That's what governments do. They target people and they abuse their power.
Authoritarians always think they will be the Southern sheriff sicking the dogs on the less White folk. They have no empathy, see things as black-white, literally, have no concern for anyone's civil rights ... lawmen of the 1960s in Birmingham. Every society has these people, and their fellow travelers. They are the foot soldiers of tyranny.
Quote from: Blackleaf on April 23, 2016, 02:45:39 PM
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It's never going to happen, nor should it. The first result would be a loss of liberty, which is huge by itself. The second result would be criminals lying in ditches draining bank accounts of the people who drove by or some other such high-tech theft. The third result would be a vast uptick in people being nicknamed "lefty" as less sophisticated, more violent criminals realized the easiest way to get your cash.
I can't wait to hack the chip. From that point on you can all address me as "Mr. President."
Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on April 27, 2016, 08:44:08 PM
I can't wait to hack the chip. From that point on you can all address me as "Mr. President."
Are you looking for an Administrative Assistant? I've got a ton of experience, and the requisite "moral flexibility"! :evil:
Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on April 27, 2016, 08:44:08 PM
I can't wait to hack the chip. From that point on you can all address me as "Mr. President."
I have no experience, but my chip will say otherwise, so, keep me in mind for an assistant too.
Quote from: Johan on April 25, 2016, 11:38:27 PM
I don't disagree. But I stick by my original opinion on the topic. I really think it comes down to this. You either believe they're all out to get you or you do not. And I do not. Because my logic tells me that if they really were all out to get me, I would have been rotting in a cell long ago. And so would most of us.
I don't believe they are out to get me. I believe they are in it for themselves and couldn't give a rat's ass about what happens to anyone else as long as they get theirs.
Quote from: PopeyesPappy on April 28, 2016, 04:51:18 PM
I don't believe they are out to get me. I believe they are in it for themselves and couldn't give a rat's ass about what happens to anyone else as long as they get theirs.
Which is a behavior pattern that can kill you, just because. Consider a cement truck driver who chooses to drive however he wants, ignoring traffic rules. He didn't mean to flatten your VW Bug, it just happened to get in the way.
Which is why I sometimes wonder if we wouldn't be better off is some terrorist flew a wide body into the capital steps during a presidential inauguration. Take out the prez, vp, house, senate, and SCOTUS all in one fell swoop. My biggest fear there would be the rabid nationalist war pigs that would surely be the next wave of assholes to hold the reigns.
Quote from: PopeyesPappy on April 28, 2016, 08:36:38 PM
Which is why I sometimes wonder if we wouldn't be better off is some terrorist flew a wide body into the capital steps during a presidential inauguration. Take out the prez, vp, house, senate, and SCOTUS all in one fell swoop. My biggest fear there would be the rabid nationalist war pigs that would surely be the next wave of assholes to hold the reigns.
The US has always been nationalist war pigs. Where have you been?
We're bad, but we aren't nearly as bad as we could be.
Quote from: PopeyesPappy on April 29, 2016, 07:14:04 AM
We're bad, but we aren't nearly as bad as we could be.
Sounds like a campaign slogan ... Democrats went full retard in Vietnam, but Eisenhower started it. Please explain this to the many thousands who died in S E Asia ... or more lately in S W Asia.
Baruch,do you really believe things couldn't be worse if the US tried to make it so?
Quote from: widdershins on April 26, 2016, 06:40:37 PMThe third result would be a vast uptick in people being nicknamed "lefty" as less sophisticated, more violent criminals realized the easiest way to get your cash.
That's what I was thinking. I'd rather have my wallet stolen than my arm. Of course, there may be some more considerate thieves who would cut out the chip instead.
Quote from: Blackleaf on April 30, 2016, 12:32:11 AM
That's what I was thinking. I'd rather have my wallet stolen than my arm. Of course, there may be some more considerate thieves who would cut out the chip instead.
Put it on your retina, so that thieve will gouge out your eyes ;-(
Quote from: PopeyesPappy on April 29, 2016, 09:18:01 PM
Baruch,do you really believe things couldn't be worse if the US tried to make it so?
Missed the point being made.
We live in Nazi Germany in 1936 ... we are bad, but not as bad as we could be (and did become a few years later). The US isn't a force for good, no nation is ... all nations are "great thefts" as Augustine of Hippo described Rome.
But it is unfair to compare what is now, vs what might be in the future. So yes, the US could become an ever worse dystopia ... but I don't predict it. I also don't predict that things will get better. All depends on if you are married to a Goldman-Sachs banker like Hillary's daughter.
I've gone ahead and brought myself an rfid-proof wallet with my card being made into contactless, and brought some aluminium card holders for my mum just to hammer home the fact of the risks involved.
The Internet Of Things means that they want to put RFID chips in everything, and have them all connect wirelessly (not to a rogue scanner) into a cloud controlled by Amazon, who works closely with the CIA. Nothing to worry about here, citizen ... move along.
Quote from: Baruch on May 02, 2016, 11:36:08 PM
The Internet Of Things means that they want to put RFID chips in everything, and have them all connect wirelessly (not to a rogue scanner) into a cloud controlled by Amazon, who works closely with the CIA. Nothing to worry about here, citizen ... move along.
So, what you're saying is that if the government has all of my data they can keep it safe for me and I don't have to worry about it any more! Thanks, Obama!
You know, the idea of the chip itself doesn't bother me. It's the mandatory nature of it that bothers me. If I could skip the line at the grocery store by just letting the scanner near the door detect my items and identity, that'd be cool. But it only works to prevent theft if it is enforced on everybody. People who don't have a chip could still steal just as easily. I'm very wary when it comes to the government forcing something on me (especially when Congress writes its members a loophole). If I don't want to participate, I should have the right to say no.
I don't trust my own mother. Why would I trust the government or Amazon?
Quote from: Blackleaf on May 03, 2016, 05:31:49 PM
If I could skip the line at the grocery store by just letting the scanner near the door detect my items and identity, that'd be cool. But it only works to prevent theft if it is enforced on everybody.
Who decided theft prevention was the only worthwhile implementation of this technology?
Quote from: Johan on May 03, 2016, 08:24:28 PM
Who decided theft prevention was the only worthwhile implementation of this technology?
The video in the OP implies that theft prevention is the main use for the technology. Since it's something that's physically attached to you, it's assumed that it would make it difficult to steal your identity, or in the case of the commercial, leave without paying.
We have been paying tolls on highways using RFID chips in cars for decades now. Chips are optional and not all cars have them. And yet toll theft does not seem to be a problem. If they can figure out how to find me and send me a bill for the toll (and they do) when I speed through the ez-pass lane at 70mph without transponder in the car, I'm pretty sure they can figure out a way to prevent non-chipped people from walking off with a cart full of groceries without paying. It ain't rocket science. You can EASILY do this without the need to make them mandatory.
Quote from: Johan on May 03, 2016, 08:24:28 PM
Who decided theft prevention was the only worthwhile implementation of this technology?
Fox News ... the criminals are everywhere ... terrorists too ... be very afraid ... and send money! Meanwhile the Elite have stolen 18 trillion and hungers for more. You agreed to hawk your children's future.
Quote from: Johan on May 04, 2016, 06:42:58 AM
We have been paying tolls on highways using RFID chips in cars for decades now. Chips are optional and not all cars have them. And yet toll theft does not seem to be a problem. If they can figure out how to find me and send me a bill for the toll (and they do) when I speed through the ez-pass lane at 70mph without transponder in the car, I'm pretty sure they can figure out a way to prevent non-chipped people from walking off with a cart full of groceries without paying. It ain't rocket science. You can EASILY do this without the need to make them mandatory.
Making it mandatory is more uniform, more efficient and more sadistic. Same as how we treat PCs at work ... make them the same as possible, and secure as possible ... but we don't care if any actual work gets done, just CYA. Capitalism only likes efficiency ... it doesn't like human dignity. Snowdon recently said, technology is there to remove the last thread of human dignity from the masses. The Elite want to rule an it, not a person. Cows wear electronic tags ... it isn't your identity they are protecting, it is their property that are protecting.
Not optional doesn't necessarily mean that it will be the law that you have to get the chip. I remember a scientist saying this would be not optional, but he meant that without the chip, you will not be able to interact with society in a meaningful way. I think tens of millions are going to accept this and gladly pay for it, and eventually the old ways will be phased out and you won't really have a choice but to take the chip or not be able to interact with society in a meaningful way. Are they ever going to make it law that newborn babies have to be chipped at birth? Maybe eventually, but that's probably not going to be happening in the immediate future. Eventually the chip might be the new social security number. You would need it to drive a car or to get your license, or to enter where you work. At that point, even though I really don't like the idea, I would throw in the towel and get myself chipped.
Quote from: FaithIsFilth on May 04, 2016, 02:58:36 PM
Not optional doesn't necessarily mean that it will be the law that you have to get the chip. I remember a scientist saying this would be not optional, but he meant that without the chip, you will not be able to interact with society in a meaningful way. I think tens of millions are going to accept this and gladly pay for it, and eventually the old ways will be phased out and you won't really have a choice but to take the chip or not be able to interact with society in a meaningful way. Are they ever going to make it law that newborn babies have to be chipped at birth? Maybe eventually, but that's probably not going to be happening in the immediate future. Eventually the chip might be the new social security number. You would need it to drive a car or to get your license, or to enter where you work. At that point, even though I really don't like the idea, I would throw in the towel and get myself chipped.
Good point. But you know the Christian nutjobs are going to see this as the prophesied number of the beast and refuse to cooperate. What will they do then? Will they start growing their own food? Will society continue to cater to them? Or will they slowly grow to accept the idea, the same way that they eventually accepted that black people were not subhumans?
Quote from: FaithIsFilth on May 04, 2016, 02:58:36 PM
Not optional doesn't necessarily mean that it will be the law that you have to get the chip. I remember a scientist saying this would be not optional, but he meant that without the chip, you will not be able to interact with society in a meaningful way. I think tens of millions are going to accept this and gladly pay for it, and eventually the old ways will be phased out and you won't really have a choice but to take the chip or not be able to interact with society in a meaningful way. Are they ever going to make it law that newborn babies have to be chipped at birth? Maybe eventually, but that's probably not going to be happening in the immediate future. Eventually the chip might be the new social security number. You would need it to drive a car or to get your license, or to enter where you work. At that point, even though I really don't like the idea, I would throw in the towel and get myself chipped.
Fabian socialism works like that. I would push the red button for planetary death first. I don't care if you are comfortable as a bovine.
Quote from: Blackleaf on May 04, 2016, 03:42:08 PM
Good point. But you know the Christian nutjobs are going to see this as the prophesied number of the beast and refuse to cooperate. What will they do then? Will they start growing their own food? Will society continue to cater to them? Or will they slowly grow to accept the idea, the same way that they eventually accepted that black people were not subhumans?
Will you accept Seri or Cortana as your Goddess?
This is never going to happen. There would be so many abuses of it. Someone earlier mentioned the ID device on cars for toll booths. Those are already being abused by law enforcement. If you have the device in your car and you get from point A to point B too quickly, they send you a speeding ticket in the mail. They are doing that now. Imagine if Wal-Mart could link each and every customer to every purchase they ever made at Wal-Mart. Then Target starts doing the same thing. Sears doesn't because by this time Sears no longer exists, but existing stores start doing it. You almost immediately start seeing targeted ad kiosks in the store which start selling specific products you are known to buy. Before you know it you mysteriously start seeing ads in Target for things you bought at Wal-Mart. After a little research you find that a centralized company has been created to collect and aggregate all of this data on you, sharing your dossier between stores. Before long that company will start getting thousands of information requests a year from law enforcement. Eventually, they'll just stop asking like they did for the Internet and simply build a pipe straight into it. The government will like all the data they already have on you, which is a LOT, with your purchases. Wait a minute! You spent $13.68 cents MORE than you took home last year but your bank account grew and your credit card balances shrunk! How did THAT happen? Paid cash for something? Doesn't matter. The sensors STILL log who you are and what you left with. Before long a guy can't buy zip ties and duct tape anymore...for...home improvement... And did you buy the wrong combination of household cleaners yesterday? Now they start surveillance on you. They already don't even have to tap your phone anymore. They just put in the number they want to watch and the data they already collect and have been for years is simply brought up. It includes your call history, texts and emails for years. Answer "Yes" at the prompt and now they are recording conversations. All of them, not just the ones which are already automatically recorded when the computer picks out keywords.
I'm not usually a conspiracy theorist, but I think Snowden showed just how bad it has gotten. We condemn England for having cameras in the public square, but we no longer have a digital footprint in America. Law enforcement pretends we do. But it's really a digital second-by-second recording of everything we've done. And if they COULD store the content of all the conversations you've ever had over the phone until an arbitrary point after your death, they would. Right now our biggest worry is snoopy agents looking into people's personal lives out of curiosity. But the day will come when those in charge, especially Republicans, realize what they can do with this data collection network. Forget Pew polls. You can know TO THE SECOND what people are thinking of a political position or candidate with a far bigger sample size and much smaller margin of error. With that information you could design a propaganda machine that would overturn liberty in America altogether and make the biggest share of the population like it! Simply add a few new keywords to the search and you're tracking political opinions. It's literally that simple. Mass data collection WILL some day (if it isn't already) be used by the slimiest people for the darkest reasons; not to take our rights, but to get us to give them away freely.
Quote from: widdershins on May 09, 2016, 04:39:38 PM
This is never going to happen. There would be so many abuses of it. Someone earlier mentioned the ID device on cars for toll booths. Those are already being abused by law enforcement. If you have the device in your car and you get from point A to point B too quickly, they send you a speeding ticket in the mail. They are doing that now.
Got proof of this? Because according to snopes, the claim is false.
http://www.snopes.com/autos/law/ezpass.asp (http://www.snopes.com/autos/law/ezpass.asp)
QuoteImagine if Wal-Mart could link each and every customer to every purchase they ever made at Wal-Mart. Then Target starts doing the same thing. Sears doesn't because by this time Sears no longer exists, but existing stores start doing it. You almost immediately start seeing targeted ad kiosks in the store which start selling specific products you are known to buy.
This happens already. I heard an interview with a Target exec talking about how they learned the hard way that they had to be careful with how they used the data their purchase history produced. Seems they have their algorithms so dialed in that based only on your purchase history, they can predict with alarming accuracy when couples will get pregnant. They bought r, then two week later they bought x, then three weeks later they bought y, they will be pregnant two weeks after buying z... And mind you, r,x y and z weren't things you'd expect like bed sheets and lingerie and pregnancy tests. The problem they ran into is that they were sending targeted ads to pregnant couples before they actually knew they were pregnant. People thought that was a bit too creepy and complained so they stopped doing it. They still often know when you're pregnant before you do, but now they know enough to wait until you buy stuff only pregnant people buy before they send to sale flyers with all the baby stuff.
But the point is, they are easily able to do this now, no RFID chips required. And even though they are able to do this now, they know enough to use the resulting data wisely lest they lose customers over it. I fail to see how RFID chips will change that.
People think they are free, but they are wage slaves and debt slaves. And the slave masters always fear ... Spartacus!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKCmyiljKo0
This wouldn't be a problem, if Spartacus had been chipped ;-) Rome never fell.
Quote from: Johan on May 09, 2016, 10:44:10 PM
Got proof of this? Because according to snopes, the claim is false.
http://www.snopes.com/autos/law/ezpass.asp (http://www.snopes.com/autos/law/ezpass.asp)
No, I do not have proof. What I have is a person telling me they got a speeding ticket in the mail because they got from one toll point to another toll point too quickly.
But the statement I made has nothing to do with the Snopes article you linked. The article you linked was about New York, specifically, installing new recording devices at intervals along highway, not about travel between existing tollbooths anywhere, including outside of New York. I never mentioned or alluded to New York specifically and the "point A to point B" I was talking about was two toll booths, though I see that I did not clearly state that I was specifically and exclusively talking about toll booths. I had actually never heard this New York story so it did not even occur to me that detectors could or would be set up at any location other than a toll booth, where they already exist.
Well to be fair, I got to that link by googling EZ-Pass speeding ticket. When you search on that phrase, you get a handful of links related to the NY thing. And that's it. Given that the EZ-Pass network spans many states and given that people LOVE to complain about shit on the internet, I would expect that if there were a state somewhere that is mailing speeding tickets based only on EZ-Pass time stamps, the internet would be chock a block full of people complaining about it.
Not saying it isn't happening. Just saying that if it is, the general public are for some mysterious reason being incredibly quiet about it.
Quote from: Johan on May 10, 2016, 06:48:20 PM
Well to be fair, I got to that link by googling EZ-Pass speeding ticket. When you search on that phrase, you get a handful of links related to the NY thing. And that's it. Given that the EZ-Pass network spans many states and given that people LOVE to complain about shit on the internet, I would expect that if there were a state somewhere that is mailing speeding tickets based only on EZ-Pass time stamps, the internet would be chock a block full of people complaining about it.
Not saying it isn't happening. Just saying that if it is, the general public are for some mysterious reason being incredibly quiet about it.
Hey, asking for evidence that a statement is true is never a dick move. It's just making sure you're properly informed and not misinformed. As a youth I was in a Pentecostal church where I "knew" a lot of things in the Bible which, yeah, aren't really in there, so I understand asking for a statement to be backed. No big deal.
In my search all I could find on this was a few people, like the person I talked to, claiming that this had happened to them. A few "eyewitness accounts", to borrow a term from Randy. I guess that means it's absolutely true without question! :wink:
Quote from: widdershins on May 09, 2016, 04:39:38 PM
This is never going to happen.
Never going to happen? You may want to rethink that after hearing this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3eER_zO1tQ
It is inevitable.
I've been using RFID chips for a few years now and they've improved my life by about .581%. I can't imagine why I would want that implanted in my body or why that would be mandatory or how I would be left behind instead of carrying my wallet. Although if there are no pockets in the future then sign me up.
RFID chips greatly help retail. When you are treated like last seasons shirts ... then you will need RFID in you. Gotta clear out the unsold inventory of humans.
The SCOTUS, like the Vatican, can make any decisions it wants. But I have decided to ignore them. Stick that up your funny robes, you shit-heads!
Quote from: widdershins on May 11, 2016, 01:38:42 PM
Hey, asking for evidence that a statement is true is never a dick move. It's just making sure you're properly informed and not misinformed. As a youth I was in a Pentecostal church where I "knew" a lot of things in the Bible which, yeah, aren't really in there, so I understand asking for a statement to be backed. No big deal.
In my search all I could find on this was a few people, like the person I talked to, claiming that this had happened to them. A few "eyewitness accounts", to borrow a term from Randy. I guess that means it's absolutely true without question! :wink:
The EZ-pass system is completely optional. And there is a real and measurable cost to deploy and maintain the system i.e. the servers don't stay powered up by themselves or through osmosis. My opinion only, but the day the popo starts mailing out speeding tickets based on EZ-Pass time stamps is the day 2/3 of the system users pull their transponders out of their cars. If the system instantly loses 2/3 of its customers, each and every state that has invested in implementing the system loses big time on their investment. That is not the sort of thing that gets governors reelected therefore that is not the sort of thing very many governors are going to be willing to allow. Again, my opinion only.
But once the sheeple allow all the toll booths run by humans, to be downsized, then when they pull their transponders, they won't be able to use the toll roads legally. Of course the long term plan is to make every road and street, a toll road!
That people choose poorly, and damage their fellow human's interests ... is just a conspiracy theory. Just read tonight, that a philosopher, writing in the 1970s, Dr Rorty, predicted the disintegration of the two party system, into strong man fascism ... because of the outsourcing of the blue collar work, and the indifference of the white collar workers ... leads to the former blue collar workers rising up and exterminating the enabling white collars and their upper evil bosses.
Quote from: Blackleaf on April 23, 2016, 02:45:39 PM
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