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http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/breitbart-s-michelle-fields-ben-shapiro-resign-over-trump-incident-n537711

QuoteBreitbart reporter Michelle Fields has resigned from the conservative news site over its response to her alleged assault by Donald Trump's campaign manager.

Three of her colleagues also resigned from Breitbart: editor-at-large Ben Shapiro, national security reporter Jordan Schachtel and Jarrett Stepman, an editor.

In his departing statement on Sunday, Shapiro said the site should be "ashamed" of "their treatment" of Fields, whose allegations of assault came amid escalating violence in and around Trump campaign events.

Schachtel and Stepman followed Monday.

Fields accused Trump campaign manager Corey Lewandowski of grabbing her arm so hard she bruised as she attempted to question the candidate at an event. She wrote an account of the incident, as did a Washington Post reporter who said he witnessed it. Politico also published an audio transcript that purportedly captures the interaction and moments immediately afterward.

The Trump campaign fought back hard against the allegations. Lewandowski called Fields "delusional" and an "attention seeker," while Trump accused the reporter of having "made up" the incident. Fields, meanwhile, filed a police report.

Despite my disdain for Breitbart as it pretends to be anything more than a tabloid, assaulting the reporters...from a legitimate source or not... is fucking unacceptable. The horror stories coming out from all sources, left, middle and right, is that the Trump campaign has been consistently violent and repressive towards them. However out of fear of losing access to the story, the media consistently puts the safety of it's employees and their own dignity on hold so they can keep close to Trump.

I don't buy into this, "We have to be scared of everything!" bullshit that is preached 24/7 in our culture, but Trump is definitely a symptom of a far greater problem. We as a society are allowing this hateful man to have his day in the limelight and there is a serious possibility that he might have four years more. And even if he loses... the people who worship him are still out there, and they will vote at the lower levels of government in likely higher turnouts than moderates and left-wingers who only get out come presidential elections (if that).

Also... stay classy, Breitbart.

QuoteHowever, the site ran a piece on its homepage Monday with the headline "Ben Shapiro betrays loyal Breitbart readers in pursuit of Fox News contributorship." The piece was later removed but can still be found online.

The media is getting desperate to bring down Trump. Shame on them.

Video of the alleged event proving that Michelle Fields is a lying sack of sh#t:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6NoMPxomjiw

She never said he threw her down. She said she nearly was brought down. And even from the very shitty quality of the video we can see he did appear to both initiate contact and bring her to a halt, which is what she claimed he did.

How unsurprising of a disciple of Trump to lean so heavily on personal attacks and grand conspiracies to avoid any responsibility of your candidate being one who has repetitively insulted, threatened and harassed the media... and indeed anyone who dares to not agree with him.

Reporters getting choke-slammed, reporters being manhandled, reporters being confined... funny, this only seems to happen at Trump rallies. I am sure there is no correlation between his inflammatory rhetoric and the violence committed towards the press though.

Btw, the actual transcript rather than clips that suit your agenda...

http://www.politico.com/blogs/on-media/2016/03/transcript-corey-lewandowski-breitbart-reporter-attack-220589

QuoteFields: “Mr. Trump, you went after the late Scalia for affirmative action, do you -- are you still against affirmative action?"
Voice (allegedly Corey Lewandowski): “Excuse me, thank you.”
A few moments later (noise of the room can be heard)...
Terris: “You OK?"
Fields: “Holy sh*t."
Terris: “Yea he just threw you."
Fields: “I can’t believe he just did that that was so hard. Was that Corey?"
Terris: “Yeah, like, what threat were you?"
Fields: "That was insane. You should have felt how hard he grabbed me. That's insane. I’ve never had anyone do that to me from a campaign."
Terris: “Can I put that in my story?"
Fields: “Yeah, go for it â€" that was really awful. That’s so unprofessional.”
Terris: “He really just almost threw you on the ground."
Fields: “He literally went like this and was grabbing me down. "I don’t even want to do what he just did to me. Oh my God, that really spooked me that someone would do that."
Terris: “What threat were you?"
Fields: “Nothing. I was asking about affirmative action."
Terris: “And he probably knows you, right?"
Fields: “Yeah, I don’t understand. That looks horrible. You’re going after a Breitbart reporter, the people who are nicest to you?"
Terris: “I know, I’m going to put it in my story."

Sorry, are the press NOT suppose to report when one of their own are assaulted?

Reporters and other non-speakers, need to keep their physical distance.  I have no patience for physical crowding on a speaker, including when BLM does it.  If reporters did that crowding at a Presidential Press conference, with the President there, the Secret Service would start shooting.

Also, public speakers don't have to answer questions from reporters or the public ... most public speakers would be smart not to speak at all ;-)

That way we are spared all the dishonest responses from the speaker.

Shouldn't they be on the same side? They're all right-wingers.

Donald Trump, because no one beats up my people except for me!

Quote from: Shiranu on March 15, 2016, 03:28:28 AM
Btw, the actual transcript rather than clips that suit your agenda...

http://www.politico.com/blogs/on-media/2016/03/transcript-corey-lewandowski-breitbart-reporter-attack-220589

Sorry, are the press NOT suppose to report when one of their own are assaulted?

So you're going to believe a transcript talking about the event over actual footage? I don't get your thinking.

And you're blaming Trump because a SS agent tackled a reporter? And you're blaming Trump because a Trump supporter punched out an antagonizing protestor?

There's clearly a conspiracy between Michelle fields and her buddy to attack Trump. When I look at the video, it appears that she was in the way and the guy wanted her to move. But even if he had "nearly thrown her down" and "traumatized her," how is this Trump's fault? I don't follow.

Are we still blaming Bush for Obama's failures? Is it Bush's fault that Obama ordered drone strikes on villages and assassinated American citizens?

QuoteSo you're going to believe a transcript talking about the event over actual footage? I don't get your thinking.

So the transcript is only believable when it is in a video with your agenda, but if it contradicts what you have to say then it suddenly is irrelevant. And again, the video shows the man likely laying hands on her, in the same place where she took pictures of the bruises she received. Do you refute that the man violently grabbed her, despite all indications of the video you posting showing that is exactly what happened? Or do you just think that is acceptable behaviour in a civilized society?

I unfortunately get your thinking all to well.

QuoteAnd you're blaming Trump because a SS agent tackled a reporter? And you're blaming Trump because a Trump supporter punched out an antagonizing protestor?

Yes and yes, because no other candidate treats the media like livestock in a pen to have a situation for the Secret Service to do such a thing. No other candidate actively panders to the racist, to the violent, to the unstable and encourages violence at his rallies and calls it "a beautiful thing". No other candidate is being supported by people who apparently think committing assault is acceptable because they were "antagonized".

Quote from: Shiranu on March 15, 2016, 02:58:35 PM
So the transcript is only believable when it is in a video with your agenda, but if it contradicts what you have to say then it suddenly is irrelevant. And again, the video shows the man likely laying hands on her, in the same place where she took pictures of the bruises she received. Do you refute that the man violently grabbed her, despite all indications of the video you posting showing that is exactly what happened? Or do you just think that is acceptable behaviour in a civilized society?

I unfortunately get your thinking all to well.

Yes and yes, because no other candidate treats the media like livestock in a pen to have a situation for the Secret Service to do such a thing. No other candidate actively panders to the racist, to the violent, to the unstable and encourages violence at his rallies and calls it "a beautiful thing". No other candidate is being supported by people who apparently think committing assault is acceptable because they were "antagonized".

So you'll prefer Hillary's claim that she came under fire, regardless of the video showing otherwise? This is no different.

Does Trump truly pander to racists, or are you rehashing the left's talking points? Maybe all the Hispanics, Muslims and Asians (including me, a Japanese American) who support him didn't get the memo. Of course, you must understand racism better than I do, so please teach ignorant me. :(

Sarcasm aside, please provide evidence that Trump panders to racism. "Illegal immigrant" and "Muslim" aren't races.

Quote from: The Atheist on March 15, 2016, 03:18:03 PM
So you'll prefer Hillary's claim that she came under fire, regardless of the video showing otherwise? This is no different.

Nice deflection with the straw man argument, but this had nothing to do with Clinton. Stay on topic.

Quote from: The Atheist on March 15, 2016, 03:18:03 PMDoes Trump truly pander to racists, or are you rehashing the left's talking points?

I think it's pretty evident that he does, whether intentionally or not when the KKK has tried to support him and there are numerous accounts of people being assaulted at his rallies based on the color of their skin. Sure, you might try to claim they were protesting and therefore "rabble-rousing," but blaming the victims for what happened to them doesn't do much to defend the actions of those who made them victims in the first place.

I find it absolutely fascinating that a Japanese American would support Trump, who has claimed he likely would have supported the detainment of Japanese Americans (http://time.com/4140050/donald-trump-muslims-japanese-internment/) during World War II, despite the Constitution and just because they were Japanese.

Quote from: The Atheist on March 15, 2016, 03:18:03 PMSarcasm aside, please provide evidence that Trump panders to racism. "Illegal immigrant" and "Muslim" aren't races.

It's becoming pretty clear any amount of evidence provided will just be rejected by you, so why bother? You're wanting to split hairs over the definition of racism rather than accept that Trump has, on multiple occasions, tried to induce his followers to fear and hate others based on religion and country of origin. 

Quote from: The Atheist on March 15, 2016, 03:18:03 PMSarcasm aside, please provide evidence that Trump panders to racism. "Illegal immigrant" and "Muslim" aren't races.

Eh, there may a few slightly racist (http://www.politico.eu/article/15-most-offensive-things-trump-campaign-feminism-migration-racism/) examples.

One curious thing is that when he talks about races or ethnicities, it's invariably preceded by "the".  The blacks.  The hispanics.  The japs.  If it walks like a duck, and talks like a duck...

Quote from: Hydra009 on March 15, 2016, 03:38:26 PM
Eh, there may a few slightly racist (http://www.politico.eu/article/15-most-offensive-things-trump-campaign-feminism-migration-racism/) examples.

One curious thing is that when he talks about races, it's invariably preceded by "the".  The Jews.  The blacks.  The hispanics.  The japs.  If it walks like a duck, and talks like a duck...

Yeah, let's not forget how two Boston men beat a homeless Latino man with a metal pipe, claiming "Donald Trump was right; all these illegals need to be deported (https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2015/08/20/after-two-brothers-allegedly-beat-homeless-man-one-them-admiringly-quote-donald-trump-deporting-illegals/I4NXR3Dr7litLi2NB4f9TN/story.html)." What did Donald Trump have to say about this crime committed in his name? "I will say that people who are following me are very passionate. They love this country and they want this country to be great again. They are passionate."

So in reality, it doesn't matter whether or not Trump himself is actually a racist: his message is deeply resonating with racists and xenophobes around the country. You don't get to be a good leader by getting bad people to support you.

In short, I laugh at people who support Donald Trump just like I laugh at the deeply religious, because to pretend like either Donald Trump or religion is good for people requires successively increasing feats of cherry-picking, ignoring mountains of evidence, and general logic-defying make-believe that I just can't swallow.

Quote from: The Atheist on March 15, 2016, 03:18:03 PM
So you'll prefer Hillary's claim that she came under fire, regardless of the video showing otherwise? This is no different.

Does Trump truly pander to racists, or are you rehashing the left's talking points? Maybe all the Hispanics, Muslims and Asians (including me, a Japanese American) who support him didn't get the memo. Of course, you must understand racism better than I do, so please teach ignorant me. :(

Sarcasm aside, please provide evidence that Trump panders to racism. "Illegal immigrant" and "Muslim" aren't races.

You are a little difficult to figure out.  I watched the video.  From 4 different sources.  I don't see anything in it.  There are a whole lot of people between the camera and the action and everything and everyone is moving.  As far as I can see there is no "proof" of anything in that video, for or against.

As for "illegal immigrants" and "Muslims" not being races, you are technically correct, but you have to delete all context in order to be technically correct.  It is, after all, illegal immigrants "from Mexico" that are being specifically addressed.  And it is Muslims "from Syria" who are the focus of attention.  You are an atheist, so I want to believe you are intelligent, but you have this right-wing "us vs them, if my guy does something wrong it's okay as long as I can prove their guy did something wrong" mentality that's just, if you'll pardon my frankness, retarded.  I don't care what "Hillary" may or may not have done when the conversation is about "Trump".  It is irrelevant.  Do I trust Hillary?  I'm not a moron.  I don't trust anyone interested in politics.  As far as I'm concerned for the most part it takes a special kind of slime ball to even want to get into politics, usually the same kind that wants to be a lawyer.  But that is irrelevant.  How I feel about Hillary, like, dislike or a little of each, is utterly irrelevant in a conversation about Trump.

It is plain as day that Trump has made outright racist statements.  It is plain as day that deporting "illegal immigrants" translate directly into "Get rid of all the Mexicans" (No, Mr. Garrison, we can not get rid of all the Mexicans.)  It is plain as day that when he says "Islam hates us" the "us" in that is Americans and the "Islam" in that is "not Americans".  I can think of only one other way to describe this besides racism, and that's xenophobia.  Are you saying he's not racist, he's xenophobic?  What trait would YOU say describes this vitriol?

As for playing the "race card", come on.  I thought that was something the right accused "liberals" of doing.  You don't automatically have a greater understanding of racism because you're Japanese.  I'm not saying you haven't faced racism.  I'm sure you have.  But I've faced racism against me, too, believe it or not.  Not much, not often, but I, a white guy, have been the victim of racism.  I can say from my firsthand knowledge of the subject, it sucked.  But "experience" and "understanding" are not the same.  I can have "understanding" of something I've never "experienced".  Likewise it is possible that I don't "understand" something I have "experienced".  And you and I may both "understand" a thing and still have completely different views on it.  I've never bought the right's "I have a black friend" defense, later changed to the "I have a gay friend" defense, and I'm not buying the "I'm not white so you can't speak to me about racism" excuse for how you KNOW that Trump isn't racist and I can't possibly argue against that.  It's a dishonest argument that does absolutely nothing to further a conversation and those has no place in intelligent discourse.

I'm the only one with evidence lol. I posted the video of Michelle Fields and you guys ignore it.

There's no more racism among Trump's followers than among any other candidate. In fact, according to one poll I've seen recently (I'll link to it if someone cares to see), the Dems are far more racist than the Republicans.

But all of this is irrelevant. Trump hasn't said or done anything racist. He's certainly not like Obama, who called his grandmother a "typical white woman." And remember that time when Obama joked about his bowling skills being comparable to an athlete in the Special Olympics?

Am I justified in saying that at least some of the violent protestors at Trump rallies are communists? I mean, I have proof, but will it be ignored like the video I showed?

(https://thenypost.files.wordpress.com/2015/12/trump-protest-1.jpg?quality=100&strip=all&w=664&h=441&crop=1&strip=all)

Oh, and Comrade Billy Ayers made some interesting remarks about the protestors' techniques recently, which I'm sure you're all aware of.

Quote from: The Atheist on March 15, 2016, 04:09:51 PM
I'm the only one with evidence lol. I posted the video of Michelle Fields and you guys ignore it.

No, you are not the only one with evidence. We've all posted plenty and you're ignoring it.

Just because you post things and claim it's evidence doesn't make it good evidence. Look, here's evidence that vaccines are dangerous:
(http://i65.tinypic.com/ws8z9c.jpg)

Quote from: widdershins on March 15, 2016, 04:04:34 PM
And you and I may both "understand" a thing and still have completely different views on it.  I've never bought the right's "I have a black friend" defense, later changed to the "I have a gay friend" defense, and I'm not buying the "I'm not white so you can't speak to me about racism" excuse for how you KNOW that Trump isn't racist and I can't possibly argue against that.  It's a dishonest argument that does absolutely nothing to further a conversation and those has no place in intelligent discourse.

It's funny you mention this, because Trump himself is often guilty of this. He wants to ban all Muslims from entering the United States (http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/07/politics/donald-trump-muslim-ban-immigration/), and claims "it's cool" because, "I have Muslim friends and they're wonderful people. But there's a tremendous section and cross-section of Muslims living in our country who have tremendous animosity."

But I'm sure the The Atheist will find some way to dismiss that too.

Quote from: widdershins on March 15, 2016, 04:04:34 PM
You are a little difficult to figure out.  I watched the video.  From 4 different sources.  I don't see anything in it.  There are a whole lot of people between the camera and the action and everything and everyone is moving.  As far as I can see there is no "proof" of anything in that video, for or against.

As for "illegal immigrants" and "Muslims" not being races, you are technically correct, but you have to delete all context in order to be technically correct.  It is, after all, illegal immigrants "from Mexico" that are being specifically addressed.  And it is Muslims "from Syria" who are the focus of attention.  You are an atheist, so I want to believe you are intelligent, but you have this right-wing "us vs them, if my guy does something wrong it's okay as long as I can prove their guy did something wrong" mentality that's just, if you'll pardon my frankness, retarded.  I don't care what "Hillary" may or may not have done when the conversation is about "Trump".  It is irrelevant.  Do I trust Hillary?  I'm not a moron.  I don't trust anyone interested in politics.  As far as I'm concerned for the most part it takes a special kind of slime ball to even want to get into politics, usually the same kind that wants to be a lawyer.  But that is irrelevant.  How I feel about Hillary, like, dislike or a little of each, is utterly irrelevant in a conversation about Trump.

It is plain as day that Trump has made outright racist statements.  It is plain as day that deporting "illegal immigrants" translate directly into "Get rid of all the Mexicans" (No, Mr. Garrison, we can not get rid of all the Mexicans.)  It is plain as day that when he says "Islam hates us" the "us" in that is Americans and the "Islam" in that is "not Americans".  I can think of only one other way to describe this besides racism, and that's xenophobia.  Are you saying he's not racist, he's xenophobic?  What trait would YOU say describes this vitriol?

As for playing the "race card", come on.  I thought that was something the right accused "liberals" of doing.  You don't automatically have a greater understanding of racism because you're Japanese.  I'm not saying you haven't faced racism.  I'm sure you have.  But I've faced racism against me, too, believe it or not.  Not much, not often, but I, a white guy, have been the victim of racism.  I can say from my firsthand knowledge of the subject, it sucked.  But "experience" and "understanding" are not the same.  I can have "understanding" of something I've never "experienced".  Likewise it is possible that I don't "understand" something I have "experienced".  And you and I may both "understand" a thing and still have completely different views on it.  I've never bought the right's "I have a black friend" defense, later changed to the "I have a gay friend" defense, and I'm not buying the "I'm not white so you can't speak to me about racism" excuse for how you KNOW that Trump isn't racist and I can't possibly argue against that.  It's a dishonest argument that does absolutely nothing to further a conversation and those has no place in intelligent discourse.

No offense, but your speech sounds like something from the Hallmark Channel. It also reeks of smug arrogance. ("You're atheist, so I want to believe you're intelligent....")

Of course the illegal immigration problem is focused on Hispanics; this is where most of our illegals come from. Not hard to figure that one out. In my area, there is a small but significant illegal East European community. I don't recall any liberals sympathizing when the gubment cracked down on them, but Zeus forbid we touch someone with brown skin.

It seems like liberals have a tough time with logic. It does not follow that, because racists support detaining illegal immigrants, therefore "all people who want to detain illegal immigrants are racist." Two individuals can have the same goal for different reasons. Must of us who want to crack down on illegal immigration simply want to protect the economy. We're not the battered women's shelter of the world; we can't give amnesty to illegals just because "there are so many and I feel so bad omg." We need to be firm, and we need to tell future illegals that they won't be able to take advantage of us anymore.

Regarding refugees, have you seen what's going on in Europe? We can't afford to be politically correct. We ought to follow Japan's example when it comes to refugees: Stay the hell away.

Quote from: The Atheist on March 15, 2016, 04:09:51 PM
I'm the only one with evidence lol. I posted the video of Michelle Fields and you guys ignore it.

That is blatantly not true.  Just skimming most of it I've seen the transcript.  And the video doesn't really show much except a lot of people blocking the supposed attack.

Quote from: The Atheist on March 15, 2016, 04:09:51 PM
There's no more racism among Trump's followers than among any other candidate. In fact, according to one poll I've seen recently (I'll link to it if someone cares to see), the Dems are far more racist than the Republicans.

Here you go again trying to defend your position by attacking another.  And yes, I would like to see your right-wing propaganda likely misquoted by Faux News.

Quote from: The Atheist on March 15, 2016, 04:09:51 PM
But all of this is irrelevant. Trump hasn't said or done anything racist. He's certainly not like Obama, who called his grandmother a "typical white woman." And remember that time when Obama joked about his bowling skills being comparable to an athlete in the Special Olympics?

How is any of that racist?  He's half white.  How can a white guy be racist by making a joke about whites?  And by your own argument, what "race" are people in the Special Olympics?  Was it a gaffe?  Yes.  Was it a dick thing to say?  Yes.  But why bring it up on a conversation about racism?  Because you are desperate to attack the "other side" rather than defend your own.  This is the most perplexing thing to me about conservatives.  Every one of you seem to have this "us against them" mentality and a belief in "your guy" which in the religious world would be called "fundamentalism".

Quote from: The Atheist on March 15, 2016, 04:09:51 PM
Am I justified in saying that at least some of the violent protestors at Trump rallies are communists? I mean, I have proof, but will it be ignored like the video I showed?

If you can prove that, yes.  But you can't eliminate, say, 5% of the group to explain away 100% of the group.  But once again this isn't an argument, it's a detraction.  You are attacking "them" to defend "us".  It's interesting that your every argument seems to come down to this.

Quote from: The Atheist on March 15, 2016, 04:09:51 PM
(https://thenypost.files.wordpress.com/2015/12/trump-protest-1.jpg?quality=100&strip=all&w=664&h=441&crop=1&strip=all)

Oh, and Comrade Billy Ayers made some interesting remarks about the protestors' techniques recently, which I'm sure you're all aware of.

And you finish once again, not defending Trump, but attacking "Not Trump".  Your mentality here really is fascinating.  You're a fundamentalist conservative and an atheist at the same time.  You're an atheist to whom critical thinking appears to be a foreign concept.  I would love to hear your back story, what your religious beliefs are, how you became an atheist, etc.  Because I'd bet dollars to donuts it's nothing like mine.

Quote from: The Atheist on March 15, 2016, 04:26:13 PM
No offense, but your speech sounds like something from the Hallmark Channel. It also reeks of smug arrogance. ("You're atheist, so I want to believe you're intelligent....")

Start with an attack on anyone not for Trump.  Expected.  And yes, I'm a little smug and arrogant.  I'm talking to a Trump supporter.  I'm sorry, but that does tend to make one feel superior.  It would be the way you would talk to me if you found I was a supporter of the Japanese internment camps of the 1940s.  You would by default, and rightly so, feel that you were in a vastly superior position and, thus, vastly more reasoned/intelligent.  I'm sorry, but I automatically associate "Trump supporter" with "moron".  It's automatic in my head.  If you don't like it, start having an intelligent, honest conversation and make me see a Trump supporter differently.

Quote from: The Atheist on March 15, 2016, 04:26:13 PM
Of course the illegal immigration problem is focused on Hispanics; this is where most of our illegals come from. Not hard to figure that one out. In my area, there is a small but significant illegal East European community. I don't recall any liberals sympathizing when the gubment cracked down on them, but Zeus forbid we touch someone with brown skin.

Attack liberals for crying about this, but not that.  Another attack rather than defense.  This really is fascinating.

Quote from: The Atheist on March 15, 2016, 04:26:13 PM
It seems like liberals have a tough time with logic. It does not follow that, because racists support detaining illegal immigrants, therefore "all people who want to detain illegal immigrants are racist." Two individuals can have the same goal for different reasons. Must of us who want to crack down on illegal immigration simply want to protect the economy. We're not the battered women's shelter of the world; we can't give amnesty to illegals just because "there are so many and I feel so bad omg." We need to be firm, and we need to tell future illegals that they won't be able to take advantage of us anymore.

Attack liberals.  Typical of most conservatives these days, but nothing "special" like some of your other arguments (well, not really "arguments".  You are making no "arguments", just attacking anything and everything "Not Trump").  Finally there was an argument there, though one which has been soundly refuted.  Getting rid of all the Mexicans would be devastating to our economy, not a boon to it.  At least, that's what economists are saying.  I can either take their word for it or get a degree as an (bleh) economist.  I think I'll take their word for it.

Quote from: The Atheist on March 15, 2016, 04:26:13 PM
Regarding refugees, have you seen what's going on in Europe? We can't afford to be politically correct. We ought to follow Japan's example when it comes to refugees: Stay the hell away.

No attack in that paragraph.  I'm almost disappointed.  You had such a pattern going there.  Well, sort of with "the harm that's going on in Europe", but I don't think that really counts as "an attack".

While you didn't really answer my question, from what you said it appears obvious you see Trump as xenophobic (your own view) rather than racist.  I think one can fairly make the claim of xenophobia over racism.  I certainly can't prove racism over xenophobia.  A fair case can be made for either.  So far as I can see, though, no case can be made for neither.

QuoteWe ought to follow Japan's example when it comes to refugees: Stay the hell away.

If you are going to take pride in your Japanese heritage, at least have the slightest clue about what the Japanese are actually doing.

http://www.snopes.com/muslims-in-japan/

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/nov/17/viral-image/viral-graphic-says-japan-keeps-out-radical-islam-t/

Lying about the actions of your people because you are too ignorant or dishonest to fit your own political agenda shows how much you really care about the Japanese. You are only Japanese when it is politically expedient to play that card, but you don't give a shit about them when they don't play along with your agenda and stereotype, now do you?

Quote from: TomFoolery on March 15, 2016, 04:18:03 PM
No, you are not the only one with evidence. We've all posted plenty and you're ignoring it.

Just because you post things and claim it's evidence doesn't make it good evidence. Look, here's evidence that vaccines are dangerous:
(http://i65.tinypic.com/ws8z9c.jpg)
It's funny you mention this, because Trump himself is often guilty of this. He wants to ban all Muslims from entering the United States (http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/07/politics/donald-trump-muslim-ban-immigration/), and claims "it's cool" because, "I have Muslim friends and they're wonderful people. But there's a tremendous section and cross-section of Muslims living in our country who have tremendous animosity."

But I'm sure the The Atheist will find some way to dismiss that too.

It's frustrating when Bill Maher and other anti-vaccine nuts have such a loud voice, but their folly is irrelevant.

Anyway, do not we have the right as a nation to forbid Muslims from emigrating here? A person freely chooses to be Muslim, and Islam is incompatible with western values. It's no different than barring someone for being a member of, say, ISIS.

But even Trump's silliness is irrelevant. A president Trump wouldn't have to power to do such a thing, and Trump supporters who've been interviewed tend to view such comments as an embarrassment.

People support Trump because his populist message of "America first" resonates. There are some wackos who like the wacky stuff he says, but why is Trump singled out for this? The message Trump sends is that we don't need to be "ashamed" of America, nor should we continue taking it up the ass from the rest of the world.

What I find sadly funny about Trump is the same people that have been screaming about their loss of personal freedom for the past 7 years are the ones supporting the authoritarian fascist's run for the presidency.

Quote from: The Atheist on March 15, 2016, 05:13:44 PM
It's frustrating when Bill Maher and other anti-vaccine nuts have such a loud voice, but their folly is irrelevant.

Anyway, do not we have the right as a nation to forbid Muslims from emigrating here? A person freely chooses to be Muslim, and Islam is incompatible with western values. It's no different than barring someone for being a member of, say, ISIS.

No, we DO NOT have that right.  Ever heard of the "First Amendment"?  "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."  Yes, there really are amendments to the Constitution which are not the Second Amendment.  The "making a law" barring "the free exercise" of Islam is unconstitutional.  Making a law barring members of a terrorist organization is not.  Don't you right-wingers carry a copy of the Constitution around with you everywhere?  Read the damned thing!

And SOME VERSIONS of Islam are incompatible with "western values", but so are some versions of Christianity.  Islam, like Christianity, is not one religion with one set of beliefs.  There are many "westernized Muslims", including many female women's rights activists, who very much embrace "western values".  It is VERY DIFFERENT than barring someone who is a member of ISIS because the Constitution does not lay out a freedom to be a member of ISIS.

Quote from: The Atheist on March 15, 2016, 05:13:44 PM
People support Trump because his populist message of "America first" resonates. There are some wackos who like the wacky stuff he says, but why is Trump singled out for this? The message Trump sends is that we don't need to be "ashamed" of America, nor should we continue taking it up the ass from the rest of the world.

People support Trump because he's blaming all their problems on the Mexicans and the Muslims, and America has no shortage of problems these days.  He's giving them a target for their anger and frustration.  People who already mistrust Mexicans and Muslims (Man, I wish there was a name for a group of people who mistrusted people of another race.  If there was I could use it here!) are more than happy to accept that target as accurate.

This really is a new low for you.  Maybe you've said things this stupid before and I just didn't see it, and I'm sorry for feeling the need to outright call you out on it, but this is STUPID.  If you think barring someone based on their religion is no different than barring known terrorists, you are a fucking moron.  And I try really, really hard to never be that offensive to someone, but that was just a plain fucking dumb-shit thing to say.

Quote from: PopeyesPappy on March 15, 2016, 05:22:57 PM
What I find sadly funny about Trump is the same people that have been screaming about their loss of personal freedom for the past 7 years are the ones supporting the authoritarian fascist's run for the presidency.

Now now, historians have chimed in and all agreed he's not entirely fascist. He's not like on Hitler's level. He's only about half fascist, illustrating only about 8 out of 14 criteria which include: a cult of action, a celebration of aggressive masculinity, an intolerance of criticism, a fear of difference and outsiders, a pitch to the frustrations of the lower middle class, an intense nationalism and resentment at national humiliation, contempt for the weak, and a “popular elitism” that promises every citizen that they’re part of “the best people of the world.”

Fascist is such a polarizing word and I think it turns a lot of people off when it's tossed around to the point of banality. Rather than just hurl blanket statements at the man, it's more important to understand why his proto-fascist ideology is selling like hotcakes in America, and it has more to do with frustrations over our political system and the failure of our leaders than most people actually believing Donald Trump would make a good president.

In short, conservatives are hurting for a cure to an ulcerated limb, and Donald Trump is the rusty saw coming to save the day amid a crowd of other conservative politicians who are only offering aspirin. After all, what's better than Civil War style solutions during a civil crisis?

Quote from: widdershins on March 15, 2016, 04:31:56 PM
That is blatantly not true.  Just skimming most of it I've seen the transcript.  And the video doesn't really show much except a lot of people blocking the supposed attack.

All I need to see is the video to know that Michelle Fields is whining about a non-event. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

Quote from: widdershins on March 15, 2016, 04:31:56 PM
Here you go again trying to defend your position by attacking another.  And yes, I would like to see your right-wing propaganda likely misquoted by Faux News.

The poll? Sure.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=newssearch&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjQh8Gv0cPLAhUKWz4KHfyMBXoQqQIIHCgAMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.usatoday.com%2Fstory%2Fopinion%2F2016%2F02%2F26%2Ftrump-racist-poll-slavery-yougov-economist-upshot-column%2F80986474%2F&usg=AFQjCNGce9FF-l29tyTgg_sbvmRQm2d7jQ&sig2=Vzx2P9wWbpGll8rY1iqvbg (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=newssearch&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjQh8Gv0cPLAhUKWz4KHfyMBXoQqQIIHCgAMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.usatoday.com%2Fstory%2Fopinion%2F2016%2F02%2F26%2Ftrump-racist-poll-slavery-yougov-economist-upshot-column%2F80986474%2F&usg=AFQjCNGce9FF-l29tyTgg_sbvmRQm2d7jQ&sig2=Vzx2P9wWbpGll8rY1iqvbg)

I'm "attacking" as a means of showing the hypocrisy. I agree that Trump says nasty things and I have no intention to defend said things, but my point is that the guys whom you presumably support are just as bad, if not worse. In other words, why are you calling the kettle black?

Quote from: widdershins on March 15, 2016, 04:31:56 PM
How is any of that racist?  He's half white.

So, by your logic, Trump can't hate Muslims if he "has Muslims friends."

Quote from: widdershins on March 15, 2016, 04:31:56 PMHow can a white guy be racist by making a joke about whites?

Same way I can be racist by making a joke about whites.

And do you ever notice how Obama sounds "blacker" when he's talking to predominantly black crowds?

Quote from: widdershins on March 15, 2016, 04:31:56 PM
And by your own argument, what "race" are people in the Special Olympics?  Was it a gaffe?  Yes.  Was it a dick thing to say?  Yes.  But why bring it up on a conversation about racism?  Because you are desperate to attack the "other side" rather than defend your own.  This is the most perplexing thing to me about conservatives.  Every one of you seem to have this "us against them" mentality and a belief in "your guy" which in the religious world would be called "fundamentalism".

Huh. Well, again, the point I'm trying to make is that it's unfair to call the kettle black.

Quote from: widdershins on March 15, 2016, 04:31:56 PM
If you can prove that, yes.  But you can't eliminate, say, 5% of the group to explain away 100% of the group.

Thank you! Now apply your same logic to Trump supporters when you accuse us all of being "n_gger-hanging racists."

Quote from: widdershins on March 15, 2016, 04:31:56 PM
But once again this isn't an argument, it's a detraction.  You are attacking "them" to defend "us".  It's interesting that your every argument seems to come down to this.

*Takes slow breath* Again, I'm just pointing out hypocrisy.

Quote from: widdershins on March 15, 2016, 04:31:56 PM
And you finish once again, not defending Trump, but attacking "Not Trump".  Your mentality here really is fascinating.  You're a fundamentalist conservative and an atheist at the same time.  You're an atheist to whom critical thinking appears to be a foreign concept.  I would love to hear your back story, what your religious beliefs are, how you became an atheist, etc.  Because I'd bet dollars to donuts it's nothing like mine.

Nope. Just calling out hypocrisy.

And I just saw this in my Facebook feed and will leave it here:

http://www.buzzfeed.com/mjs538/if-trump-is-not-elected-then?z=23423423&bffbmain&utm_term=.bgb0MYq16#.xprMRvBpY

A few excerpts to what Trump supporters think will happen if Trump isn't elected:
(http://i68.tinypic.com/2uxzscz.png)
You would think that it would have happened by now if it was going to, but sure, let's hold Trump up as the fulcrum on which our American way of life currently balances.

(http://i68.tinypic.com/inwnwh.png)
A logical conclusion. When we had slavery we didn't have the problems that we have today, therefore...? We should go back to owning slaves? We didn't have problems before? We need a time machine to so Trump can go back in time and kill Abraham Lincoln? Actually, I'm not sure what the logical conclusion is supposed to be here.

(http://i64.tinypic.com/2941kbm.png)
Seems legit, though you would think if God will only smite us AFTER not voting for Trump that the guy probably hasn't been paying attention.

(http://i68.tinypic.com/nxmj9s.png)
Yes, much like a boil on my ass, communism will form. I'm assuming this guy doesn't know the difference between communism and socialism because I'm having a difficult time imaging the U.S. being full-on Communist circa Soviet Union, but whatever.

Congratulations, The Atheist, you're with these people. :) *slow clap*

Quote from: widdershins on March 15, 2016, 05:30:50 PM
No, we DO NOT have that right.  Ever heard of the "First Amendment"?  "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."

Um, a sovereign nation has the right to bar anyone from emigrating to our nation for any reason whatsoever. This has nothing to do with prohibiting religious freedom.

Quote from: widdershins on March 15, 2016, 05:30:50 PM
Yes, there really are amendments to the Constitution which are not the Second Amendment.

Indeed, there are. Isn't it funny how liberals cherry-pick the Constitution?

Quote from: widdershins on March 15, 2016, 05:30:50 PMThe "making a law" barring "the free exercise" of Islam is unconstitutional.

Couldn't agree more. But this has nothing to do with denying foreign Muslims citizenship based on their religion.

Quote from: widdershins on March 15, 2016, 05:30:50 PMAnd SOME VERSIONS of Islam are incompatible with "western values", but so are some versions of Christianity.  Islam, like Christianity, is not one religion with one set of beliefs.  There are many "westernized Muslims", including many female women's rights activists, who very much embrace "western values".  It is VERY DIFFERENT than barring someone who is a member of ISIS because the Constitution does not lay out a freedom to be a member of ISIS.

To paraphrase Bill Maher, not all religions are equal, and the "moderate" Muslims are simply those who don't fully follow Mohammed's teachings.

Gandhi said, "I like your Christ, but I don't like you Christians." If more Christians were more Christ-like, we can all agree that the world would be a better place. But if more Muslims were more Mohammed-like, well . . . Mohammed advocated beheading "unrepentant infidels" (i.e., those who refused to convert to Islam). Ask any Muslim what Mohammed taught should be done about apostates from the Muslim faith.

Not. All. Religions. Are. Equal.

Quote from: widdershins on March 15, 2016, 05:30:50 PM
People support Trump because he's blaming all their problems on the Mexicans and the Muslims, and America has no shortage of problems these days.

Oh, hm. Please tell me other stuff about me, since you seem to know me better than I do.

Quote from: widdershins on March 15, 2016, 05:30:50 PM
He's giving them a target for their anger and frustration.  People who already mistrust Mexicans and Muslims (Man, I wish there was a name for a group of people who mistrusted people of another race.  If there was I could use it here!) are more than happy to accept that target as accurate.

You'll find this subset of people in both parties. Why single out the minority of racists on the right? It seems you seek confirmation bias.

Quote from: widdershins on March 15, 2016, 05:30:50 PM
This really is a new low for you.  Maybe you've said things this stupid before and I just didn't see it, and I'm sorry for feeling the need to outright call you out on it, but this is STUPID.  If you think barring someone based on their religion is no different than barring known terrorists, you are a fucking moron.

I'm a "f*cking moron." Ok, tough guy.

Now that you've got the personal attack out of your system, let's fact-focus.

According to the Immigration and Nationality Act (Sections 212 and 313, specifically), an individual can be denied citizenship if he or she pledges allegiance to a faith which demands obedience to any law over the US Constitution. Ever heard of Sharia law? Look up polls that show just how many Muslims in the US support Sharia law superseding US law.

Quote from: The Atheist on March 15, 2016, 05:46:27 PM
All I need to see is the video to know that Michelle Fields is whining about a non-event. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

I watched the video.  I didn't see anything.  You certainly don't get a clear shot to see if she was grabbed hard enough to leave a bruise or not.

Quote from: The Atheist on March 15, 2016, 05:46:27 PM
The poll? Sure.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=newssearch&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjQh8Gv0cPLAhUKWz4KHfyMBXoQqQIIHCgAMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.usatoday.com%2Fstory%2Fopinion%2F2016%2F02%2F26%2Ftrump-racist-poll-slavery-yougov-economist-upshot-column%2F80986474%2F&usg=AFQjCNGce9FF-l29tyTgg_sbvmRQm2d7jQ&sig2=Vzx2P9wWbpGll8rY1iqvbg (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=newssearch&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjQh8Gv0cPLAhUKWz4KHfyMBXoQqQIIHCgAMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.usatoday.com%2Fstory%2Fopinion%2F2016%2F02%2F26%2Ftrump-racist-poll-slavery-yougov-economist-upshot-column%2F80986474%2F&usg=AFQjCNGce9FF-l29tyTgg_sbvmRQm2d7jQ&sig2=Vzx2P9wWbpGll8rY1iqvbg)

Your claim:

QuoteIn fact, according to one poll I've seen recently (I'll link to it if someone cares to see), the Dems are far more racist than the Republicans.

The story you linked to:

QuoteAccording to the poll, backers of Clinton and Sanders, white Democrats, are more likely to disapprove of the Civil-War executive order than supporters of Hispanic Republican Marco Rubio.

Already we've gone from "Democrats" vs "Republicans" to "Democrats in South Carolina who back Clinton and Sanders" vs "Supporters of Marco Rubio" and from "are racist" to "support the Emancipation Proclamation" without context.  You've already taken a leap of faith and fallen off the cliff.  But let's wait for the splat, shall we?  The poll results:

QuoteSupport for Emancipation Proclamation
“Do you approve or disapprove of the executive order which ... freed all slaves
in the states that were in rebellion against the federal government?”
                 Approve   Disapprove   Not Sure   N
Among supporters of ...
Trump       66.5%       20.5%          13.0%      419
Cruz         74.0          15.1              10.8        149
Sanders   81.5            9.8                 8.7        589
Carson     70.6            8.9               20.5          93
Clinton     85.3            6.2                8.5         507
Rubio       86.1            5.1                8.8         128
Kasich      92.2           3.2                 4.6          98

The REALITY is that what the poll you saw said was NOT that Democrats are "far more racist" than Republicans, as you claimed, but that that Cruz supporters are AT LEAST 50% more racist than supporters of any other candidate than Trump, whose supporters are 33% more racist than Cruz supporters.

Do you even read this shit?  You gave me the link and everything.  It is way, way too easy to shoot down your "facts" as the bullshit they are.

Quote from: The Atheist on March 15, 2016, 05:46:27 PM
I'm "attacking" as a means of showing the hypocrisy. I agree that Trump says nasty things and I have no intention to defend said things, but my point is that the guys whom you presumably support are just as bad, if not worse. In other words, why are you calling the kettle black?

Well, since Trump supporters are at least TWICE as racist as supporters of literally anyone else but Cruz (thank you for pointing that out), I think I'll go with the "Not Racist" party.

Quote from: The Atheist on March 15, 2016, 05:46:27 PM
So, by your logic, Trump can't hate Muslims if he "has Muslims friends."

You missed the point.  That's the excuse Republicans use to prove they're not racists or homophobic.  It doesn't prove anything except in their heads.

Quote from: The Atheist on March 15, 2016, 05:46:27 PM
Same way I can be racist by making a joke about whites.

Are you white?  If you are not, then yes, you can be racist about making jokes about whites.  If you are, then no.  You can't be racist by making a racial joke about yourself.

Quote from: The Atheist on March 15, 2016, 05:46:27 PM
And do you ever notice how Obama sounds "blacker" when he's talking to predominantly black crowds?

Welcome to politics.  They're all clones.  This is not news.

Quote from: The Atheist on March 15, 2016, 05:46:27 PM
Huh. Well, again, the point I'm trying to make is that it's unfair to call the kettle black.

Unfair, maybe.  But he doesn't mind.  Just don't call that kettle a fucking Mexican!

Quote from: The Atheist on March 15, 2016, 05:46:27 PM
Thank you! Now apply your same logic to Trump supporters when you accuse us all of being "n_gger-hanging racists."

I made no such accusation.

Quote from: The Atheist on March 15, 2016, 05:46:27 PM
*Takes slow breath* Again, I'm just pointing out hypocrisy.

Then make an argument in support of your position already.

Quote from: TomFoolery on March 15, 2016, 05:42:40 PM
...a cult of action...

True of every politician.

Quote from: TomFoolery on March 15, 2016, 05:42:40 PM...a celebration of aggressive masculinity...

I guess Reagan was a fascist then. And Eisenhower. Hm, maybe Ernest Hemingway was too, because muscles and balls.

Quote from: TomFoolery on March 15, 2016, 05:42:40 PM
...an intolerance of criticism...

This is true of every politician, as well. Need I remind you of Obama?

Quote from: TomFoolery on March 15, 2016, 05:42:40 PM...a fear of difference and outsiders...

Liberals have a hard time differentiating between illegal and legal immigration. I'm proud of the fact that our country legally welcomes more immigrants annually than any other nation.

Illegals got to go. Maybe we ought to be as tough on illegals as most other nations are.

Quote from: TomFoolery on March 15, 2016, 05:42:40 PM
...a pitch to the frustrations of the lower middle class...

Every. Presidential. Candidate. Ever.

Quote from: TomFoolery on March 15, 2016, 05:42:40 PM...an intense nationalism...

Liberals hate the idea of American Exceptionalism. What else is new?

Quote from: TomFoolery on March 15, 2016, 05:42:40 PM...and resentment at national humiliation...

You're damn right I'm resentful at how Obama has humiliated our nation.

Quote from: TomFoolery on March 15, 2016, 05:42:40 PM...contempt for the weak...

Huh? Have you every heard the expression, "If you give a man a fish, he'll have dinner for a day, but if you teach him how to fish, he'll have dinner for life"?

Democrats promise to keep giving fish. Republicans want to teach you how to fish.

Quote from: TomFoolery on March 15, 2016, 05:42:40 PM...and a “popular elitism”...

What wrong with being populist?

Quote from: TomFoolery on March 15, 2016, 05:42:40 PM...that promises every citizen that they’re part of “the best people of the world.”

So much self-hatred for America.

Quote from: widdershins on March 15, 2016, 04:45:35 PM
Start with an attack on anyone not for Trump.  Expected.  And yes, I'm a little smug and arrogant.  I'm talking to a Trump supporter.  I'm sorry, but that does tend to make one feel superior.  It would be the way you would talk to me if you found I was a supporter of the Japanese internment camps of the 1940s.  You would by default, and rightly so, feel that you were in a vastly superior position and, thus, vastly more reasoned/intelligent.  I'm sorry, but I automatically associate "Trump supporter" with "moron".  It's automatic in my head.  If you don't like it, start having an intelligent, honest conversation and make me see a Trump supporter differently.
Attack liberals for crying about this, but not that.  Another attack rather than defense.  This really is fascinating.Attack liberals.  Typical of most conservatives these days, but nothing "special" like some of your other arguments (well, not really "arguments".  You are making no "arguments", just attacking anything and everything "Not Trump").  Finally there was an argument there, though one which has been soundly refuted.  Getting rid of all the Mexicans would be devastating to our economy, not a boon to it.  At least, that's what economists are saying.  I can either take their word for it or get a degree as an (bleh) economist.  I think I'll take their word for it.
No attack in that paragraph.  I'm almost disappointed.  You had such a pattern going there.  Well, sort of with "the harm that's going on in Europe", but I don't think that really counts as "an attack".

While you didn't really answer my question, from what you said it appears obvious you see Trump as xenophobic (your own view) rather than racist.  I think one can fairly make the claim of xenophobia over racism.  I certainly can't prove racism over xenophobia.  A fair case can be made for either.  So far as I can see, though, no case can be made for neither.

Are you kidding me? It's nonstop personal attacks in your post against me.

When I attack other politicians, I'm only trying to point out your hypocrisy for calling the kettle black.

Quote from: widdershins on March 15, 2016, 06:15:09 PM

Do you even read this shit?  You gave me the link and everything.  It is way, way too easy to shoot down your "facts" as the bullshit they are.

Did you read it?

The article I linked to first discredits the poll you've mentioned. This was the POINT of the article.

The first paragraph in the article links to the poll which the liberals used to attacks Republicans, then the REST of the article (i.e., everything after the introductory paragraph) shows that the liberals withheld data and how, when you consider *all* the data, the Democrats are more racist.

You're incredibly dishonest.

FROM THE ARTICLE I LINKED TO:

QuoteOriginally, Vavreck, the Times and YouGov only reported on the racially insensitive views of Republicans, failing to publish or even analyze the responses of potential Democratic voters. Vavreck only performed the Democratic analysis and released it to me on Friday after YouGov refused to release the data on Thursday and I contacted YouGov's European executives, its in-house polling expert and Vavreck herself.

I'll just copy/paste the entire article.

Quote
Bernie Sanders supporters are 50% more likely than Hillary Clinton supporters to disapprove of Abraham Lincoln’s war-time decision to free the slaves according to a YouGov/Economist poll cited by The New York Times' TheUpshot blog and analyzed by a UCLA political science professor Lynn Vavreck. That may be one reason Clinton is expected to trounce Sanders in the South Carolina Democratic primary on Saturday or it might not have anything to do with it.

According to the poll, backers of Clinton and Sanders, white Democrats, are more likely to disapprove of the Civil-War executive order than supporters of Hispanic Republican Marco Rubio. One in 10 Sanders supporters disapproves of Lincoln’s executive order. Rubio supporters are less likely to disapprove of or have doubts about the landmark civil rights decision than African-Americans themselves.

The same poll finds that Clinton supporters are about 40% more likely than Sanders backers to be fans of Democratic President Franklin Roosevelt’s decision to round up Japanese-Americans and throw them into “internment camps.” Supporters of the two Democrats are both more likely to support the racist policy than Rubio's backers by a margin of 2 to 1. The poll of 2,000 Americans found that 39% of Clinton backers either support the action, for which the U.S. Congress and President Ronald Reagan apologized in 1988, or are unsure of their position. The United States paid reparations to the interred Japanese-Americans.

The YouGov poll results began to gain national attention on Tuesday when Vavreck reported in the Times that more than 1 in 5 Trump supporters disapproved of Lincoln’s emancipation proclamation. YouGov had provided the raw data so Vavreck could perform her analysis. The Times cited the poll's results as evidence of racist undercurrents and intolerance on the part of Trump and his supporters in the Republican presidential primary, backing them with exit poll results and data from another pollster the Times described as "aligned with the Democratic Party."

Originally, Vavreck, the Times and YouGov only reported on the racially insensitive views of Republicans, failing to publish or even analyze the responses of potential Democratic voters. Vavreck only performed the Democratic analysis and released it to me on Friday after YouGov refused to release the data on Thursday and I contacted YouGov's European executives, its in-house polling expert and Vavreck herself.

While The New York Times, Time magazine, Nate Silver's 538 and Ezra Klein's Vox treated the poll as credible, the results are transparently ludicrous. The poll found that almost one-third of African-Americans polled on Lincoln’s executive order to end slavery in the treasonous Confederate States of America either opposed freedom for their ancestors or were not sure what they thought.

Since everybody seems to know that the Republican Party is the most comfortable home for America’s remaining racists (Hello? David Duke), it is hard to understand why non-partisan pollsters, independent academics and prestigious media organizations would have to manufacture outrage. You could forgive Trump voters for thinking that when it comes to reporting nasty things about them, nobody cares enough to double check.

Quote...This has nothing to do with prohibiting religious freedom.

"It has nothing to do with your religion, but if you are practicing the religion of Islam you are not allowed to enter."

Brilliant.

Quote from: Shiranu on March 15, 2016, 06:45:27 PM
"It has nothing to do with your religion, but if you are practicing the religion of Islam you are not allowed to enter."

Brilliant.

The American gubment only has authority to make laws for its own people.

I'm logging off for now. I think I've made my point and I have things to do lol.

Quote from: TomFoolery on March 15, 2016, 05:54:32 PM
And I just saw this in my Facebook feed and will leave it here:

http://www.buzzfeed.com/mjs538/if-trump-is-not-elected-then?z=23423423&bffbmain&utm_term=.bgb0MYq16#.xprMRvBpY

Please tell me those are photoshops or trolls or an elaborate prank.  I don't think I can stomach accepting those sorts of people as countrymen.

Hydra009 - Get out of your Liberal cocoon some time.  These are real Americans.  Are you still in favor of democratic voting?  A lot of people have hated a lot of what happened over the last 50 years.  They may not be right, and they may not be targeting the correct cause, but their feelings and hostility are real.

Weird comment about "not being Japanese enough".  The Atheist, is an atheist ... so not a true Scotsman either.  Real Japanese only live in Japan, don't accept any other race as an immigrant, not even Koreans who have lived their for generations, and are Shinto/Buddhist combo followers.  Even though Japanese people think differently than I do, I don't have a problem with it, it is their country.  And Japanese-Americans are cool too, but like African-Americans ... they are primarily American ... with a little wasabi added in.

Quote from: The Atheist on March 15, 2016, 06:46:55 PM
The American gubment only has authority to make laws for its own people.

I'm logging off for now. I think I've made my point and I have things to do lol.

Your point is utterly irrelevant to anything at hand. You are saying that the rules of law should only apply to those within our borders, and those without we can do with as we please. You would turn away productive and lawful people because you are a coward, and that is all Trump's ilk are; cowards. You fear that the "illegals" are going to come and steal your jobs and crash the economy, yet it is not so. You fear that the "Muslims" will be harboring terrorists amongst them, that more than likely even the moderates are potential terrorists, and yet nearly every act of terrorism in the United States is committed by whitemen. You fear that the United States is weak and powerless when we have the strongest military in the world and exert political and cultural control over nearly every government in the world.

The United States is far from great, but in the ways you covet... America IS the greatest nation on Earth, and still you scream and shout that it's not enough, that the end is near and the decline of the empire is upon us. I, frankly, await with bated breath for it to crumble into something resembling a 21st century state instead of a declining 1900's empire, but if you want to compare our state to anyone else's... why do you insist on living in hatred and fear? We have a long way to fall before we reach, by what Trump considers great, the levels of any other nation besides perhaps China.

Quote from: Hydra009 on March 15, 2016, 07:02:27 PM
Please tell me those are photoshops or trolls or an elaborate prank.  I don't think I can stomach accepting those sorts of people as countrymen.

One would hope... yes, one would hope, though my husband grew up near Youngstown, OH and I showed this to him and he said, "Seems about right."

Quote from: Shiranu on March 15, 2016, 04:58:22 PM
If you are going to take pride in your Japanese heritage, at least have the slightest clue about what the Japanese are actually doing.

http://www.snopes.com/muslims-in-japan/

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/nov/17/viral-image/viral-graphic-says-japan-keeps-out-radical-islam-t/

Lying about the actions of your people because you are too ignorant or dishonest to fit your own political agenda shows how much you really care about the Japanese. You are only Japanese when it is politically expedient to play that card, but you don't give a shit about them when they don't play along with your agenda and stereotype, now do you?

1. Who said anything about "taking pride in Japanese heritage"? Huh? Kinda racist for you to make such an assumption about me, but whatever. I'll let it pass. (Just don't ask me if I prefer chopsticks over a fork. I've never used chopsticks in my life lol.)

2. "My people"? Check your white privilege, please. Second, I'm an American of Japanese descent, born and raised here. I don't speak for Japan anymore than you speak for Europe.

3. I don't "care about my people"? Um, "my people" are my fellow Americans. Again, check your white privilege; are "your people" the people of Europe?

4. Why should I "give a sh*t" about a foreign country? Oh, it's because I have slanty eyes? Gotcha.

5. If you had READ what I wrote, you'll see that I was talking about REFUGEES. Not Muslims.

Of course there are Muslims in Japan. I said that the Japanese government refuses to allow REFUGEES in.

6. Hey, racist: My mentioning of Japan had NOTHING to do with the fact that I'm a Japanese American. I mentioned Japan because they're barring REFUGEES from entering.

*sighs*

Quote from: Shiranu on March 15, 2016, 07:24:40 PM
Your point is utterly irrelevant to anything at hand. You are saying that the rules of law should only apply to those within our borders, and those without we can do with as we please. You would turn away productive and lawful people because you are a coward, and that is all Trump's ilk are; cowards. You fear that the "illegals" are going to come and steal your jobs and crash the economy, yet it is not so. You fear that the "Muslims" will be harboring terrorists amongst them, that more than likely even the moderates are potential terrorists, and yet nearly every act of terrorism in the United States is committed by whitemen. You fear that the United States is weak and powerless when we have the strongest military in the world and exert political and cultural control over nearly every government in the world.

The United States is far from great, but in the ways you covet... America IS the greatest nation on Earth, and still you scream and shout that it's not enough, that the end is near and the decline of the empire is upon us. I, frankly, await with bated breath for it to crumble into something resembling a 21st century state instead of a declining 1900's empire, but if you want to compare our state to anyone else's... why do you insist on living in hatred and fear? We have a long way to fall before we reach, by what Trump considers great, the levels of any other nation besides perhaps China.

I define American Exceptionalism as the principles upon which we stand and the ideals towards which we strive. We're not the only exceptional nation, but we are exceptional.

Exceptionalism Has nothing to do with wealth or power or prestige. We were considered exceptional from day one, when we were a young nation in debt and with no power or prestige to speak of.

Quote1. Who said anything about "taking pride in Japanese heritage"? Huh? Kinda racist for you to make such an assumption about me, but whatever. I'll let it pass. (Just don't ask me if I prefer chopsticks over a fork. I've never used chopsticks in my life lol.)

Considering your the one who has brought up your heritage because it is expedient to prove that "trump couldn't possibly be racist because I am a minority!", and says that we should compare ourselves to the actions of Japan and no other country so far, one has to make such an assumption.

QuoteCheck your white privilege, please.

I'm not full-blooded white, have a "foreigner" name and was shunned by "white culture" where I grew up... Kinda racist for you to make such an assumption about me, but whatever. I'll let it pass.

Skipping ahead past several racist remarks thrown at me...

QuoteI said that the Japanese government refuses to allow REFUGEES in.

And what refugees are the trouble makers? Which refugees is it that Trump want's to ban?

Does Trump want to ban all refugees? Or is it just a certain group that he is concerned about?

I am actually more concerned about the fact that now you are saying Trump isn't going far enough. When we look at healthy societies, the Japanese are generally not the one we put on the pedestal given their rates of depression and suicide, the fact that 1/3rd of single women live in poverty and rising rates of child abuse... and you want to point to them and say, "We should be more like them socially!"?

QuoteExceptionalism Has nothing to do with wealth or power or prestige. We were considered exceptional from day one, when we were a young nation in debt and with no power or prestige to speak of.

How utterly meaningless. You cannot declare yourself exceptional without having done exceptional things, no more than I can declare myself divine without divinity.

The word you are looking for is "arrogance", something you and Mr. Trump have in abundance.

Edit: To answer one o your questions though...

Quote...are "your people" the people of Europe?

My people are of Ireland, Germany, Scandinavia, and the Mediterranean, with my dad the first three and my mom a mutt of the last. When I was adopted I took my mom's family last name which would likely give Mr. Trump a panic attack and fear that I was going to blow him up or be a member of ISIS.

Quote from: Shiranu on March 15, 2016, 08:08:15 PM
How utterly meaningless. You cannot declare yourself exceptional without having done exceptional things, no more than I can declare myself divine without divinity.

It's better than what I was going to say, which is, if you have to tell people you're exceptional, you're probably not.

Quote from: The Atheist on March 15, 2016, 07:55:01 PMI define American Exceptionalism as the principles upon which we stand and the ideals towards which we strive.

And what principles do we have that other nations do not have?  Because spoiler alert, that whole secular republic with individual rights thing really took off. 

QuoteWe're not the only exceptional nation, but we are exceptional.

(http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/wtthll.gif)

Quote from: Shiranu on March 15, 2016, 08:05:40 PM
Considering your the one who has brought up your heritage because it is expedient to prove that "trump couldn't possibly be racist because I am a minority!", and says that we should compare ourselves to the actions of Japan and no other country so far, one has to make such an assumption.

I'm not full-blooded white, have a "foreigner" name and was shunned by "white culture" where I grew up... Kinda racist for you to make such an assumption about me, but whatever. I'll let it pass.

Skipping ahead past several racist remarks thrown at me...

And what refugees are the trouble makers? Which refugees is it that Trump want's to ban?

Does Trump want to ban all refugees? Or is it just a certain group that he is concerned about?

I am actually more concerned about the fact that now you are saying Trump isn't going far enough. When we look at healthy societies, the Japanese are generally not the one we put on the pedestal given their rates of depression and suicide, the fact that 1/3rd of single women live in poverty and rising rates of child abuse... and you want to point to them and say, "We should be more like them socially!"?

No, I brought up my ethnicity to show that not all Trump supporters are white racists.

Hm. What else.

I was not saying that we need to emulate Japanese society. You really need to stop putting words in my mouth. The Japanese are refusing to allow refugees in because they don't want to endure what the Europeans are enduring. ALL I SAID was that we should do what the Japanese are doing. That's it. Ok? What the heck...

In his book The God Delusion, Richard Dawkins mentioned the concept of raising one's consciousness. When I pointed how you were making me "Mr Representative of Japan" I was enlightening to your racism. In other words, I was trying to raise your consciousness. When you encounter an Asian American, don't assume that they "represent all Asians" or "represent the land of the ancestors" or whatever nonsense.

Quote from: Shiranu on March 15, 2016, 08:08:15 PM
How utterly meaningless. You cannot declare yourself exceptional without having done exceptional things, no more than I can declare myself divine without divinity.

The word you are looking for is "arrogance", something you and Mr. Trump have in abundance.

Edit: To answer one o your questions though...

My people are of Ireland, Germany, Scandinavia, and the Mediterranean, with my dad the first three and my mom a mutt of the last. When I was adopted I took my mom's family last name which would likely give Mr. Trump a panic attack and fear that I was going to blow him up or be a member of ISIS.

So you're saying that America has never done anything exceptional? Being the harbinger of modern democracy is not exceptional enough?

Quote from: Hydra009 on March 15, 2016, 08:49:44 PM
And what principles do we have that other nations do not have?  Because spoiler alert, that whole secular republic with individual rights thing really took off. 
(http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/wtthll.gif)

We're exceptional because:

1. Our principles are those of liberty, egalitarianism, individualism, republicanism, democracy and a laissez-faire approach to business.

2. America has a unique mission to transform the world. From our beginning until the present, we've helped spread democracy across the globe and continue to do so. (According to the democratic peace theory, because no two democracies have ever fought each other, the world will become less violent the more that democracy spreads.)

3. Our sense of mission and history gives us superiority over other nations.

Quote
No, I brought up my ethnicity to show that not all Trump supporters are white racists.

Which is irrelevant to the fact that Trump panders to, and is himself likely, a white racist.

QuoteI was not saying that we need to emulate Japanese society.

No, we should just adopt their policies.

QuoteThe Japanese are refusing to allow refugees in because they don't want to endure what the Europeans are enduring.

Which is what, exactly? You want to speak of making America exceptional again? Irish refugees were a huge reason America was great. We went through the exact same shit you aim at Muslims. German refugees made America great during WW2. Japanese refugees made America great. Armenian scientists and businessmen refugees have made America great. Hard-working Latin American refugees have made America great.

The greatness of America is built on those fleeing hardship. Have you heard of something called the Statue of Liberty? Have you read the poem at it's base?

"Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!""

QuoteWhen you encounter an Asian American, don't assume that they "represent all Asians" or "represent the land of the ancestors" or whatever nonsense.

Again, your racism is coming through painfully so when you say things like this. I bring it up because, again, you want to use your race as a political tool. You brought it up, don't cry like a bitch when someone calls you on it. And as for ancestors... I use that term because that is what is important to ME. But of course, in your racist eyes, "OH WHITE GUY SAID ANCESTOR HE TRYING TO APPEAL TO MY 'ORIENTAL CHARM!' WHAT A RACIST!".

QuoteSo you're saying that America has never done anything exceptional? Being the harbinger of modern democracy is not exceptional enough?

Poland and france had stronger democracies that incorporated more people into the system before the United States.

QuoteAmerica has a unique mission to transform the world.

Says who? That is a flavour of the month idea, we have been isolationist for most of our history.

Quote...because no two democracies have ever fought each other...

Have you ever heard of something called World War 2? You might look up some of the nations that fought on each side, and what political system they were.

QuoteOur sense of mission and history gives us superiority over other nations.

Piss on that.

Quote from: Shiranu on March 15, 2016, 09:48:03 PM
Which is irrelevant to the fact that Trump panders to, and is himself likely, a white racist.

No, we should just adopt their policies.

Which is what, exactly? You want to speak of making America exceptional again? Irish refugees were a huge reason America was great. We went through the exact same shit you aim at Muslims. German refugees made America great during WW2. Japanese refugees made America great. Armenian scientists and businessmen refugees have made America great. Hard-working Latin American refugees have made America great.

The greatness of America is built on those fleeing hardship. Have you heard of something called the Statue of Liberty? Have you read the poem at it's base?

"Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!""

Again, your racism is coming through painfully so when you say things like this. I bring it up because, again, you want to use your race as a political tool. You brought it up, don't cry like a bitch when someone calls you on it. And as for ancestors... I use that term because that is what is important to ME. But of course, in your racist eyes, "OH WHITE GUY SAID ANCESTOR HE TRYING TO APPEAL TO MY 'ORIENTAL CHARM!' WHAT A RACIST!".

Poland and france had stronger democracies that incorporated more people into the system before the United States.

You're calling me racist to save face? Wow.

Anyway, there's a difference between sane refugees and Muslim refugees. Have you not been following what's going on in Europe? Every day I read stories in European media about boy and girls being KIDNAPPED AND RAPED by refugees. Remember that story about the 7-yr-old boy in Sweden who was being raped in a refugee camp and the police ran for their lives, unable to save the boy?

They march through the streets of Europe demanding a caliphate:

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2015/09/muslims-march-through-streets-of-denmark-demanding-a-caliphate-video/

Germany kowtows to them, banning pork in schools for EVERYONE to avoid "offending" Muslims. So much for assimilation.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/650246/Germany-bans-pork-cafes-schools-offending-Muslim-migrants

Watch this video and tell me you're not worried:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VJyKRwQHHM

While I appreciate all the chest thumping nationalistic chauvinism, you guys need to get a room ... where you can competitively wrap yourselves in the US flag ;-)  Seeing as how you can't do the other rascally thing, which is thump a Bible.

See, I work with young Americans, usually 20-30 years old.  Been doing that for almost 20 years ... and I can tell you that I have confidence, that no matter what shit comes America's way, some of it self inflicted, the X-gen and Millennials can handle it ;-)

But usually I am shitting realism all over American politics and business ... that is a separate issue.  Policy stinks, but the people are sweet.

I'm a Hillary Clinton supporter now. Trump kinda bores me.

:roll:

Quote from: The Atheist on March 16, 2016, 01:32:09 AM
I'm a Hillary Clinton supporter now. Trump kinda bores me.

So you dig Lady MacBeth?  When it comes to killing children in Iraq via ineffective interdiction, we had to rely on Mr MacBeth.  It appalled even the French.  And that was before we went full retard with Don Quixote Bush.

Quote from: Baruch on March 16, 2016, 07:00:42 AM
So you dig Lady MacBeth?  When it comes to killing children in Iraq via ineffective interdiction, we had to rely on Mr MacBeth.  It appalled even the French.  And that was before we went full retard with Don Quixote Bush.

The French? They invented a sport called "parkour," which consists of running and jumping over obstacles.

Leave it to the French to invent a sport that involves running away.

Anywho...

Bush was a good president. When Obama ran in 2008, he promised that he would close Gitmo and return troops from the Middle East in his first year. I knew he was merely pandering for votes and that, once he got into office, he would have all the intel that Bush had available and would continue as Bush v2.0. Sure enough, that's what happened.

Hey. Do you think he wears his Nobel Peace medallion when he orders drone strikes against children and American citizens?

Sanders panders by offering free stuff. ("Sanders Panders." Hm. Has a nice ring to it.) Trump panders by offering a return to America's semi-mythical Golden Age of the mid-twentieth century. Clinton is a flip-flopper beyond Romney's wildest wet dreams, but at heart sheswa conservative Democrat. She's middle-of-the-road, she's experienced, and she knows how the world works.

You have admitted you troll ... and as long as you are funny, I am good with that ;-)

No, I haven't been happy with any President since Eisenhower ... and that was when I was in diapers.  Every President since then is like one of my dirty diapers.

I’m not going to deal with everything that was said, just the most glaring inconsistencies.

Quote from: The Atheist on March 15, 2016, 06:09:56 PM
According to the Immigration and Nationality Act (Sections 212 and 313, specifically), an individual can be denied citizenship if he or she pledges allegiance to a faith which demands obedience to any law over the US Constitution. Ever heard of Sharia law? Look up polls that show just how many Muslims in the US support Sharia law superseding US law.

You do realize that it’s not “Muslims” who want Sharia law, but “SOME Muslims”, right?  You can’t tell who those people are based solely on the fact that they checked the “Muslim” box in the religion questionnaire.  And I don’t hear you calling for a ban on Christians entering the US, because many Christians (ever heard of Kim Davis?) believe this exact same way.  In fact, many of our current politicians have outright said that they believe God’s law trumps US law.  So you lump all Muslims together based on the view of some of them and exclude all Christians even though some of them have that same view.  This isn’t about protecting the country.  It’s about typical right-wing fear-mongering, which they borrowed heavily from fundamentalist Christianity.  If you want people to be scared enough to stay in line you have to give them a devil, and that’s all this is.

Now, as I’ve stated I do agree that Islam, as a whole, is bad juju.  But I cannot agree that we can extend that generalization to all Muslims everywhere.

Quote from: The Atheist on March 15, 2016, 06:09:56 PM
The article I linked to first discredits the poll you've mentioned. This was the POINT of the article.

Did I ask you to show me "the point of an article"?  Did I even ask you to link "an article"?
You stated THIS:

QuoteIn fact, according to one poll I've seen recently (I'll link to it if someone cares to see), the Dems are far more racist than the Republicans.

And then:

QuoteThe article I linked to…

So am I supposed to read your mind here?  When I ask for a poll and you link an article am I supposed to not just click on the link which takes me to "the poll" the article is about?

And how do you defend this?  By bolding the portion of the article claiming that the only poll mentioned in the link you gave is bullshit?  What???  You said you’ve SEEN A POLL.  I would like to see THAT POLL.  Not an article about a poll which shows the opposite of what you claimed, I want THE POLL you “saw” which clearly shows “Dems are far more racist than the Republicans.

You have "seen a poll" showing that Democrats are far more racist than Republicans, right?  You didn't just read some article, make an assumption and then just create evidence in your head that doesn't really exist?  Because the part of the article you highlighted, that doesn't say what you've claimed to have seen either.  The poll mentioned says the OPPOSITE of what you claim and the article just claims (without giving any data) that the poll is total bullshit.  If that's all you have then, no, you have not "seen a poll", nor have you seen ANY evidence to support your claim that Democrats are far more racist than Republicans.  If you have, please post THAT.

Quote from: The Atheist on March 16, 2016, 11:45:10 AM
The French? They invented a sport called "parkour," which consists of running and jumping over obstacles.

Leave it to the French to invent a sport that involves running away.

Anywho...

Bush was a good president. When Obama ran in 2008, he promised that he would close Gitmo and return troops from the Middle East in his first year. I knew he was merely pandering for votes and that, once he got into office, he would have all the intel that Bush had available and would continue as Bush v2.0. Sure enough, that's what happened.

Hey. Do you think he wears his Nobel Peace medallion when he orders drone strikes against children and American citizens?

Sanders panders by offering free stuff. ("Sanders Panders." Hm. Has a nice ring to it.) Trump panders by offering a return to America's semi-mythical Golden Age of the mid-twentieth century. Clinton is a flip-flopper beyond Romney's wildest wet dreams, but at heart sheswa conservative Democrat. She's middle-of-the-road, she's experienced, and she knows how the world works.

Which Bush was a good president, may I ask?  George "Mr. Mediocre" Bush or George "War drum" Bush?  The one who did pretty much nothing or the one we're still recovering from?

And yes, Obama made a lot of claims and went back on most of them, and that does piss me off.  I think part of it was that in his inexperience he thought he could do things he later found to be a lot more difficult, part of it was just politics (they're all liars) and part of it, you must admit, was an obstructionist Congress still butthurt by the ACA which can't even agree among themselves on anything except the fact that tantrums must be thrown.

I do want to clear up this killing of "American citizens" thing you right-wingers have been trying for year to make into a big deal, but which really isn't.  It's not like drones are blowing up steak houses in Texas or anything.  Yes, at least one "American citizen" was okayed for drone strike.  But that "American citizen" was also a known terrorist and a traitor.  Do you REALLY have a problem with an "American citizen" who betrayed American by joining a terrorist group to kill Americans being killed?  Because I don't.  As for the "children" being killed, come on.  How many children did your boyfriend Bush kill with his pointless war in Iraq?  You like to "point out hypocrisy", right?  Calling the kettle black and all that?  So take an honest look at those statements and tell me, do you really think they're unbiased?

You're wasting your time on him, he admits that he is simply here to troll. He isn't even an idiot, just a pathetic waste of a person.

Quote from: Shiranu on March 17, 2016, 05:06:45 PM
You're wasting your time on him, he admits that he is simply here to troll. He isn't even an idiot, just a pathetic waste of a person.

Thanks for the heads-up.

Quote from: Shiranu on March 17, 2016, 05:06:45 PM
You're wasting your time on him, he admits that he is simply here to troll. He isn't even an idiot, just a pathetic waste of a person.

I'm not here to troll.

Ok, I was always a Hillary supporter because she's a conservative Democrat, but Trump is the only candidate addressing the Muslim refugee problem. When I read about what's going on in Europe, and when I look at the percentage of Muslims right here in America who support Sharia law (~24%), I'm genuinely concerned.

It's not about hating Arabs. I just hate Islam. There is no compatibility between Islam and western values, and the more Muslim our nation becomes, the more susceptible we are to the lifestyle that exists in Muslim-dominant nations.

Quote from: The Atheist on March 17, 2016, 08:36:49 PM
I'm not here to troll.

Ok, I was always a Hillary supporter because she's a conservative Democrat, but Trump is the only candidate addressing the Muslim refugee problem. When I read about what's going on in Europe, and when I look at the percentage of Muslims right here in America who support Sharia law (~24%), I'm genuinely concerned.

It's not about hating Arabs. I just hate Islam. There is no compatibility between Islam and western values, and the more Muslim our nation becomes, the more susceptible we are to the lifestyle that exists in Muslim-dominant nations.

We will never be "susceptible" to that lifestyle.  As any Christian can tell you, having a HUGE majority doesn't mean your wackier religious beliefs can be law in America.  We nave nine unelected judges to protect us from that shit.  What will happen as Muslims come here?  What has already happened.  They will Westernize.  They will change to match our culture.  They have no choice.  You simply CAN'T have a 9 year old wife in America, much less half a dozen of them.  And if you piss off your wife in America, she can do something about it.  There is simply pretty much zero chance of Sharia Law being enacted anywhere in America.  We may have issues occasionally, like the New Year rapes in Germany.  While tragic, those will be rare.  And this isn't Germany.  Try that shit here and you're likely to get shot.

Look at Muslims in any part of the modern world which isn't Muslim majority.  They soften.  They become more like the people around them.  You get Muslim women, not only walking around without escort wearing whatever the hell they want, but speaking up for women's rights in the Muslim religion.  If you keep them away from civilization, keep them living in a war zone, yes, Islam is something to fear.  If you let them into the modern world and give them a couple of generations to adjust, not so much.

Quote from: The Atheist on March 16, 2016, 11:45:10 AMThe French? They invented a sport called "parkour," which consists of running and jumping over obstacles.

Leave it to the French to invent a sport that involves running away.

Parkour is essentially a way of negotiating obstacles quickly and efficiently through acrobatics.  And it's heavily tied to military obstacle course training.  So no, it's not a sport of running away.

Quote from: The Atheist on March 17, 2016, 08:36:49 PM
Ok, I was always a Hillary supporter because she's a conservative Democrat, but Trump is the only candidate addressing the Muslim refugee problem. When I read about what's going on in Europe, and when I look at the percentage of Muslims right here in America who support Sharia law (~24%), I'm genuinely concerned.

Because that's exactly what this forum needs: more people convinced that Sharia law is coming for the Western world and someone needs to annihilate all the Muslims before they achieve their collective conspiracy of ending freedom as we know it. While we're at it, the only good Muslim is a dead Muslim. *sigh*

Crazy, fundamentalist Muslims aren't that different than crazy, fundamentalist Mormons and they haven't achieved a toehold in American politics because no one wants that shit and most of what they believe is illegal. It will never be legal in the U.S. to stone your 11 year-old bride to death.

So we have three options: welcome Muslim refugees in the U.S. and allow them to peacefully assimilate over a few generations, continue to try and contain them in the Middle East where they'll likely become victims or perpetrators of violence in the pressure-cooker of extremism, or just kill them all in all out genocide.

The first option is American and one we've done since our inception, the second option is stupid and kicks the can down the road, and the third option would make us just as bad you perceive them to be.

The Europeans have been trying to Borg the US for over 200 years.  Their Vatican and Monarchy are incompatible with the US ... that and the Rothschild financiers.  But the US decided to ignore American policy of George Washington, and become a patsy for GB ... starting in 1913 with the child of the BoE ... the Fed.  Most Americans are now comfortable being European peons now.  There are differences between 1st World countries, and even within the Five Eyes.  It is only time before our money has the Queen on it, just like Canada.  But we won't be getting a young socialist PM ;-)