I currently have Windows 8.1 and am continually being bombarded with popups offering a free upgrade to Windows 10 from Microsoft. Why does one of the world's foremost examples of capitalism want to give me Windows 10? I don't understand.
Finally, after a couple of hundred popups, I must have accidently clicked on "Install Now", because when I cleared the screen to shut down my computer, I had a notice not to unplug or turn off my computer as Windows 10 was now being installed. So I just let it happen. And what happened was the usual: I ended up with a new version of Windows, which was not totally compatible with all of my earlier software. My biggest concern is always first with Flight Simulator, which is no longer supported by Microsoft since they closed down that division nearly 10 years ago, and with each new version of Windows, more work-arounds have to be found to keep the thing up and running. One of my media players simply can't be installed in Windows 10, and does not function at all.
The good news is that if you act quickly (before one month transpires), you can restore Windows 8.1 in about 90 minutes to 2 hours, which I did after a couple of days with Windows 10. I'm seldom overly impressed with new editions of Windows. Some are improvements, and some follow on the heels of one of their previous disaster editions (Windows Millennium for example), and are sorely needed. Most of the time, I view them as just one more pain in the ass from Microsoft.
What I don't understand is why Microsoft wants to give it to me for free?
Oh wait. I didn't click on something by accident. If you have Windows 7 or 8 and get automatic updates, Windows 10 will automatically get uploaded and then install itself, whether you want it or not. Also, I haven't looked closely at this site yet. Often times, these types of sites that offer malware protection, or some "stop the bullshit" protection offer nothing but malware themselves.
http://www.howtogeek.com/228551/how-to-stop-windows-7-or-8-from-downloading-windows-10-automatically/
This continual update policy is the new normal. Apple does the same. One can always see it as an indirect revenue stream to give it away for free ... because you have to replace your old apps, that they will charge for.
Why it is done is a conspiracy theory ... if I told you, I would have to visit you and kill ... your computer. I work in IT ... at work we have to update our stuff weekly ... forever. Red pill or blue pill?
Quote from: SGOS on March 11, 2016, 06:16:54 AM
uickly (before one month transpires) I'm seldom overly impressed with new editions of Windows. Some are improvements, and some follow on the heels of one of their previous disaster editions (Windows Millennium for example), and are sorely needed.
Windows ME was one such disaster. So was Vista. And from what I've read, so was Windows 8.
Quote
What I don't understand is why Microsoft wants to give it to me for free?
Like Adobe and several others, Microsoft is shifting to a subscription based model. You won't buy their software anymore, you will rent it. Understandably, lots of people won't like this business model and will avoid using it as long as possible. What better way to cure that problem than to push those people a new OS for free that no longer runs older versions of their software thereby forcing those folks into the software rental age.
Originally, in the days of mainframes ... you didn't own the hardware or the software. And you had an IBM engineer in your shop, working for IBM, to run it for you (and spy on your corporate data). The PC was invented to overturn that ... but the Borg are never happy unless you are fully assimilated. MS and Apple are just the new IBM. I look back on the 80s in home computers with genuine nostalgia. Excuse me ... time to get back to the salt mine ...
Quote from: Johan on March 11, 2016, 07:06:57 AM
Windows ME was one such disaster. So was Vista. And from what I've read, so was Windows 8.
Like Adobe and several others, Microsoft is shifting to a subscription based model. You won't buy their software anymore, you will rent it. Understandably, lots of people won't like this business model and will avoid using it as long as possible. What better way to cure that problem than to push those people a new OS for free that no longer runs older versions of their software thereby forcing those folks into the software rental age.
Windows 7 was where I first encountered subscription based models. Yowee! They can get expensive, and I don't see any advantage with them over a owned piece of software. And most of the advantages, if indeed there are any, seem mostly imaginary at worst, or minimal at best. Windows 8 didn't seem as bad, but then I've learned how to avoid a lot of this new marketing bullshit.
By the way, in the last 45 minutes, I've had three popups announcing my new Windows 10 will start installing in the next 10 minutes. I've already uninstalled it, and they won't stop bothering me. I don't have the time right now, but I'm going to study that earlier geek protection that I linked to. I'm tired of this bullshit.
Incidentally, Flight Simulator sold it's rights to another outfit that is to release a new version of FS. Sounds like it too will be either subscription based or modular: "Oh you want to fly in Florida? That's an extra $30. You want Europe? That will be $65." Sounds like it's going to offer a lot less for a lot more, and it may exclude the Flight Simulator community from making the thousands upon thousands of high quality freeware addons, which is what has made it possible for the community to continually grow over the last 30 years, kept the interest up, and nurtured a loyal following.
Part of the link that made me laugh:
Windows 10 is Great, Except for the Parts That Are Terrible
Windows 10 is a great upgrade. Microsoft paid a lot of attention to the feedback they ignored while developing Windows... [Read Article]
Based on the comments in other news reports about this, a lot of fanboys are going to come along claiming that this isn’t a big deal, it’s just business as usual. But downloading an entire operating system?
They're copying the pharmaceutical companies lead. Nothing is ever cured anymore, but everything is treatable. Once they cure anyone of a disease the patient no longer needs them..
I turned off automatic updates because I knew that 10 was going to go from offered to pushed.
The larger number of people who kept XP after 7 was available, and then kept XP after support for XP was discontinued, has spurred Microsoft to be more firm about updates.
I've got a laptop I use when traveling that has Windows 8. They didn't sell a version then with Windows 7, and I can tell you 8 ain't much good.
Don't understand how a multibillion dollar company can come up with Windows XP, screw up badly with Vista, semi fix it with Windows 7 and then screw it up again with 8. Planned obsolescence? This isn't smart business. Guess they know that people like me don't have the funds to go with MacBook. Kind of a sucky approach, methinks.
Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on March 11, 2016, 12:21:41 PM
I turned off automatic updates because I knew that 10 was going to go from offered to pushed.
The larger number of people who kept XP after 7 was available, and then kept XP after support for XP was discontinued, has spurred Microsoft to be more firm about updates.
They will get more firm, when it is advertised that having an old OS, helps terrorism ... and that if you don't upgrade, you are aiding and abetting the enemy (unlike John McCain).
Quote from: stromboli on March 11, 2016, 12:47:33 PM
I've got a laptop I use when traveling that has Windows 8. They didn't sell a version then with Windows 7, and I can tell you 8 ain't much good.
Don't understand how a multibillion dollar company can come up with Windows XP, screw up badly with Vista, semi fix it with Windows 7 and then screw it up again with 8. Planned obsolescence? This isn't smart business. Guess they know that people like me don't have the funds to go with MacBook. Kind of a sucky approach, methinks.
Their screwups are not some sort of devious plot. Technology changes and they try to make an OS that can accommodate that, but they don't always get it right.
Quote from: Hydra009 on March 11, 2016, 01:33:18 PM
Their screwups are not some sort of devious plot. Technology changes and they try to make an OS that can accommodate that, but they don't always get it right.
And it's not like other platforms are without their faults. Full investment in Apple's ecosystem has you entirely at the mercy of a single company for basically everything, and Linux has an insane learning curve for the uninitiated. Using information technology is an exercise in understanding and circumventing its faults.
I have been holding off on win 10 and hope to do so for awhile now. I have Win 7 and it runs all my games just fine. I had 8.2 for awhile and it was a huge pain. Ran some games and not others. So, back to 7 I went. Because of a couple of computer adventures/misadventures, I had two versions of Excel at one time or another. Got tired of paying for it, so I looked around and found WPS Spreadsheets. It was/is free. There is also a $50 pro version, if you want. It is a Chinese based co. that has a compatible spreadsheet with Excel--it works great. I do a bunch of spreadsheets for my vitally important baseball stats (have developed my own super, duper stats) and have been very pleased with the ability to use my old excel sheets with this one. After 2 yrs of use, I find I love it. It has all the excel features I need and a couple that excel does not offer. Once a year they ask me to upgrade, but that's it.
Quote from: Mike Cl on March 11, 2016, 01:47:38 PM
I have been holding off on win 10 and hope to do so for awhile now. I have Win 7 and it runs all my games just fine. I had 8.2 for awhile and it was a huge pain. Ran some games and not others. So, back to 7 I went.
Yeah. Unless you seriously need windows 10 for some reason, I don't recommend upgrading.
I have window 10, but it came along with my computer. Previously I had Vista on another older computer, and I can say that W10 is an improvement over Vista. But for those who have other versions of Window, I cannot advise for the upgrading as I really don't know what will happen in your case.
I have 10 now too. I actually jumped right in and installed it asap. I like it for the most part. There is a new search bar though that I would guess is the main reason for it being "free". I would say it's free it install, but there are lots of ads through Cortana. (basically the Windows version of Siri) You can turn Cortana off though as well as a few other features that seem like ads. By default, it's set to "on" and I would guess they did this knowing that many people would not care enough to, or not think to turn the ad-ware off instead of keep it at the default setting.
tl;dr: I have a feeling it's free to install from the default ad-ware. You can turn the ad-ware off though.
Quote from: PickelledEggs on March 11, 2016, 03:54:40 PM
I have 10 now too. I actually jumped right in and installed it asap. I like it for the most part. There is a new search bar though that I would guess is the main reason for it being "free". I would say it's free it install, but there are lots of ads through Cortana. (basically the Windows version of Siri) You can turn Cortana off though as well as a few other features that seem like ads. By default, it's set to "on" and I would guess they did this knowing that many people would not care enough to, or not think to turn the ad-ware off instead of keep it at the default setting.
Where do the ads come on as I don't see them, and I haven't turned anything off?
Quote from: josephpalazzo on March 11, 2016, 03:56:39 PM
Where do the ads come on as I don't see them, and I haven't turned anything off?
I think I saw some where it says "Search the web and Windows". Cortana is built in to that, but if you turn off cortana, there isn't anything that shows up there... unless I'm mistaken. I've had Cortana off for a while now, so I don't remember where it was. There is a lot of spyware in Cortana though. If you haven't already, I'd turn that off.
Quote from: PickelledEggs on March 11, 2016, 04:19:42 PM
I think I saw some where it says "Search the web and Windows". Cortana is built in to that, but if you turn off cortana, there isn't anything that shows up there... unless I'm mistaken. I've had Cortana off for a while now, so I don't remember where it was. There is a lot of spyware in Cortana though. If you haven't already, I'd turn that off.
Ok, I've just checked my setting, and Cortana is off, why I wasn't getting any ads. Thanks anyway for the info.
Quote from: PickelledEggs on March 11, 2016, 04:19:42 PM
I think I saw some where it says "Search the web and Windows". Cortana is built in to that, but if you turn off cortana, there isn't anything that shows up there... unless I'm mistaken. I've had Cortana off for a while now, so I don't remember where it was. There is a lot of spyware in Cortana though. If you haven't already, I'd turn that off.
There is no such thing as spyware or key loggers or back doors ... that would be a conspiracy theory.
Quote from: Baruch on March 11, 2016, 08:18:01 PM
There is no such thing as spyware or key loggers or back doors ... that would be a conspiracy theory.
Um... no. First of all, keyloggers are absurdly easy to make.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BiOPBsXh0g
And second, backdoors are everywhere in programming. Ever used a cheat/debug code in a video game?
It was sarcasm. So these things self assemble, without any programmer? Or is the programmer and his corporation ... involved in a conspiracy. The best joke I ever heard in IT, is that Windows itself is the most successful computer virus ;-)
I set my automatic updates to ask before updating. It's been quiet for two days. It's like taking aspirin and having a bad headache go away.
Windows 10 is being "offered" (more like forced) for free for several reasons. First, Microsoft has an on-and-off track record. Windows 95 was a hit, 98 was mostly a hit, ME was a flop, XP was a big hit, Vista was a big flop, 7 was a hit, 8 was a flop. They spent months touting their strong numbers with Windows 8 installs only to have reality set in later, that people hated it, weren't using it and, in fact, were uninstalling it. Windows 10 needs to have strong numbers.
Another reason, they are installing gold mines on your computer. Windows 10 collects MASSIVE amounts of data on how you use your computer, and only some of that can be shut off. It is a marketer's wet dream, thus, very valuable information. They're likely using Windows 10 to do market research; to see if they can actually make more by giving software away rather than selling it. If it pans out well for them you can look forward to Windows becoming an outright free software, at least in theory. The reality will be that they collect so much information about you that they will be able to deliver an ad to your email or even your door for something you really, really want with pretty good accuracy based on the information they've collected on you.
Not only that, they will have the most massive database on earth describing how people in different areas use their computers, something they are building right now thanks to Windows 10. They will be able to respond by implementing features important to customers almost before the customers know they want it, and certainly before Linux or Apple know they want it. This means more market share, which means more data, which means more money.
They're also trying to move to a subscription-based system for everything possible. They are feeling this out in the Windows Store. They took away the very popular Solitaire. But you can get it from the Store for a mere, I think, 99 cents a month, each and every month. That's the "micropay" model they're working with. And Windows DVD Player (the name might not be right) is $9.99 and plays DVDs for you...and nothing else. That IS quite a bit just to play DVDs, especially given that VLC is free. The prices and functionality are all over the place, likely as a way to measure what works and what doesn't. They looked upon Google Play and saw that it was good...a good way to make money. And they WANT it. Microsoft can afford to take a hit now and then to gather information about what works and what doesn't.
Keep in mind, that is not all as nefarious as it sounds (probably). They're not interested in whether you're looking at porn or not...unless whether you look at porn or not can make them money. In short, they're giving away Windows 10 because they want your money, oddly enough.
So ... go down to the bank ... write a check for the full balance, and send it to Apple or MS already ... don't you support Capitalism? MS/Apple will never use that info they gather, against you. Just like the Feds said they wouldn't fly drones over the US for police purposes, they are for military mission only .. except now they admit they are giving every access possible to state and local police. Make sure your papers are in order, comrades.
Because state and local police need more military equipment. It just takes too long for the police to kill unarmed black men one at a time, I guess.
My wife just spent all morning downloading the free Win 10. She then spent 2 hrs. restoring Win 7. Finally has Win 7 back as is now happy.
Whenever my computer decides to upgrade, I'll probably just go with it. Most of the games I care about work just fine on my SteamOS rig, and the ones that don't I can just jerry-rig to work on something. Anyone who has seen the lengths I go to in order to get my older games working knows I have the stubbornness of a bull and the patience of a saint when it comes to computers.
For anyone who is interested, there is a free tool out there called GWX Control Panel (http://ultimateoutsider.com/downloads/) which will let you (probably) prevent your computer from automatically updating and remove the annoying nag update Microsoft installed a few months back.
Quote from: Hijiri Byakuren on March 17, 2016, 05:26:18 PM
Whenever my computer decides to upgrade, I'll probably just go with it. Most of the games I care about work just fine on my SteamOS rig, and the ones that don't I can just jerry-rig to work on something. Anyone who has seen the lengths I go to in order to get my older games working knows I have the stubbornness of a bull and the patience of a saint when it comes to computers.
I envy you that trait. There is just something about working with computer problems that just drives me bat shit crazy when I try to fix them. Drives my frustration level to the max!!
Quote from: Hijiri Byakuren on March 17, 2016, 05:26:18 PM
Whenever my computer decides to upgrade, I'll probably just go with it. Most of the games I care about work just fine on my SteamOS rig, and the ones that don't I can just jerry-rig to work on something. Anyone who has seen the lengths I go to in order to get my older games working knows I have the stubbornness of a bull and the patience of a saint when it comes to computers.
Perhaps my favorite game, the original Fry Cry, needs a special patch to make it work on Windows 7 and 8, and it works fine. Except that it does something to a couple of other programs I frequently use, and makes them unusable. The only thing I've found that restores the other programs, requires uninstalling Fry Cry, and then doing a system restore. Granted, I haven't tried everything there is to try. I would if I knew what else there is that might fix this, but it's an aggravating hassle. But I do love that game. Fry Cry II is OK. I like it too, but that came on PlayStation. Subsequent Fry Cry games didn't interest me much, and I quit buying them. I don't buy many games anymore. I've been doing Flight Simulator for 20 years, building addon scenery, and adding boat traffic, and that occupies enough of my time during the winter.
Quote from: widdershins on March 17, 2016, 05:28:53 PM
For anyone who is interested, there is a free tool out there called GWX Control Panel (http://ultimateoutsider.com/downloads/) which will let you (probably) prevent your computer from automatically updating and remove the annoying nag update Microsoft installed a few months back.
I'm a bit leery of some of these types of programs, because they often come with annoying unrelated malware. So far I've been able to rid my computer of the malware without too many hassles, but I'm like other posters here; A small hassle, although this description is relative, is still a hassle, and I don't like to be annoyed.
Since I tweaked the Microsoft updating settings, I've had only one annoyance, but I think I'll look into this GWX Control Panel, because that one annoyance last week from Microsoft was designed to trick me into saying yes to the update. When they do that, even knowing what they are doing, it's too easy to click the wrong button, and start the install, especially when they start hitting you with it 3 or 4 times a day, and that is not a small annoyance.
Quote from: SGOS on March 17, 2016, 07:15:08 PM
I'm a bit leery of some of these types of programs, because they often come with annoying unrelated malware. So far I've been able to rid my computer of the malware without too many hassles, but I'm like other posters here; A small hassle, although this description is relative, is still a hassle, and I don't like to be annoyed.
This is why I have become extremely leery of installing anything from the Internet that isn't open source software. It seems that pretty much everything these days, even from once respectable sources, comes with some sort of scumware.
Of course, if you get Linux and just install stuff from the repos, this is never an issue to begin with.
Quote from: SGOS on March 17, 2016, 07:05:50 PM
Perhaps my favorite game, the original Fry Cry, needs a special patch to make it work on Windows 7 and 8, and it works fine. Except that it does something to a couple of other programs I frequently use, and makes them unusable. The only thing I've found that restores the other programs, requires uninstalling Fry Cry, and then doing a system restore. Granted, I haven't tried everything there is to try. I would if I knew what else there is that might fix this, but it's an aggravating hassle. But I do love that game. Fry Cry II is OK. I like it too, but that came on PlayStation. Subsequent Fry Cry games didn't interest me much, and I quit buying them. I don't buy many games anymore. I've been doing Flight Simulator for 20 years, building addon scenery, and adding boat traffic, and that occupies enough of my time during the winter.
This is because of basic architecture issues. Usually applications either share specific subprograms (that are installed with Windows) or they install their own special version of one of the Windows subprograms. Since there is no "versioning" of patches in Windows, the older version is simply overwritten. If one of the apps depended on details of the original subprogram, or the one that came with the app, then that screws with anything else that would use some version of that subprogram.
Another problem with games is, for performance or other tricks, the code works directly with the hardware, rather than abstracting thru the OS or utilities. Then if you try to port it to a different or newer hardware, the game performance is off or the coding tricks stop working, because the hardware isn't compatible.
Quote from: SGOS on March 17, 2016, 07:15:08 PM
I'm a bit leery of some of these types of programs, because they often come with annoying unrelated malware. So far I've been able to rid my computer of the malware without too many hassles, but I'm like other posters here; A small hassle, although this description is relative, is still a hassle, and I don't like to be annoyed.
Since I tweaked the Microsoft updating settings, I've had only one annoyance, but I think I'll look into this GWX Control Panel, because that one annoyance last week from Microsoft was designed to trick me into saying yes to the update. When they do that, even knowing what they are doing, it's too easy to click the wrong button, and start the install, especially when they start hitting you with it 3 or 4 times a day, and that is not a small annoyance.
I should have mentioned I'm a computer technician. This is what I do for a living. The program is safe. In fact, I have a list of great software which is useful in different times.
If you need some powerful spyware removal, bleepingcomputer.com is the place to go. This software SHOULD NOT be run on a regular basis, just when you have tough spyware/viruses to get rid of. It's pretty powerful and has a chance of removing something important to you. The software to get from there is JRT, ADWCleaner and, if you're adventurous and running Windows 8 or below, Combofix.
If there's something wrong with Windows and you just can't seem to fix it then you want Tweaking.com's Windows Repair utility. It fixes a TON of problems, all automatically.
These last couple of weeks I've seen a problem with Windows 10 where the clock and several icons next to it are missing and clicking on the Start Button does nothing. This appears to be a problem with an update getting only half installed, but the fix is simple. Hit CTRL+ALT+DEL and bring up the Task Manager, click on File in the top left, then New Task (Run) and type this command without quotes, "shutdown /r /t 0". Tick the box to run it as Administrator and hit Enter on the keyboard. The computer will reboot, finishing the update install as it does, and will come up just fine again. At least, that has worked twice now for me.