America and Great Britain was allied with Joseph Stalin in ww2, despite the fact that they hated him, in order to bring down a greater threat and enemy they all shared.
All nonmuslims should be uniting against this greatest threat to freedom in our world.
The simple fact of the matter is that the majority of Congress and Senate and House of Representatives and the majority of European and American politicians are Christian, yet do we see them instituting laws that deprive Atheists of Liberty?
Is there a Christian nation on earth nowadays that has laws calling for the arrest or death of an atheist defending their views.
No, hence Christians are little threat to Atheists, at least when it comes to instituting laws that oppress them. If Christians were all living their lives as Christ taught them to live , there would be no threat at all, because Christ preached non-violence and love for enemies.
Muhammed and the early Muslims were rapists, terrorists, looters, and mass murders. Wouldn't it be good for the left and the right, Christians and atheist, and all lovers of freedom and women's rights, to unite against this great evil that is decreasing the quality of life everywhere it grows, and is responsible for almost all of the wars and terrorism throughout the present earth.
So, why is the left wing claiming to be for women's rights, and yet I have seen left-wingers defend Islam in debates wirh the right, and these were also left wing women the last time I saw such stupidity, and they're defending an institution that ruins the lives of hundreds of millions of women century after century, that destroys the lives of more women than all other misogynistic forces on earth combined.
Every woman in Saudi Arabia lives on house arrest, hence every woman in Saudi Arabia's life is ruined. The right wing sees this obvious hatred for liberty that Islam has and states that we should not let any Muslim become a politician (or in trumps case go so far as to not let them into the country.)
The leftists who are supposed to be for women's rights are often arguing the contrary (against a ban on Islamic politicians). The greatest friend of women is the one who's willing to go out and attack the greatest enemy of women. Find one other misogynistic institution that destroys 1% as many female lives as Islam, hence the right wing in many ways is a better friend of women than the left.
I recently made this YouTube on Islam. It is worth watching.
https://youtu.be/RLDdNfTZF0w
*mod* Phattmatt. Seek help and get off of our forum. Sincerely -AF Staff
The Right wing isn't in favor of rights, they are in favor of the Right wing, and fighting the Left wing. The Left wing isn't in favor of rights, they are in favor of the Left wing, and fighting the Right wing. If the Right wing is in favor of chocolate and the Left win is in favor of peanut butter ... they will oppose each other's snack of choice. This is childish, it is time for people to grow up.
So no, the Left wing in Europe or USA is not going to help women in Saudi Arabia. The idea that they are even interested, is mere propaganda. Without propaganda one would see that the Right and Left wings are ... empty.
World hasn't seen more successful terrorists than the international policies-acts of the USA and its allies yet.
Quote from: Baruch on March 03, 2016, 06:39:58 AM
The Right wing isn't in favor of rights, they are in favor of the Right wing, and fighting the Left wing. The Left wing isn't in favor of rights, they are in favor of the Left wing, and fighting the Right wing. If the Right wing is in favor of chocolate and the Left win is in favor of peanut butter ... they will oppose each other's snack of choice. This is childish, it is time for people to grow up.
So no, the Left wing in Europe or USA is not going to help women in Saudi Arabia. The idea that they are even interested, is mere propaganda. Without propaganda one would see that the Right and Left wings are ... empty.
What is this Left Wing opposition in the USA you speak of?
John Oliver?
Quote from: pope-a-dope on March 02, 2016, 11:13:16 PM
The simple fact of the matter is that the majority of Congress and Senate and House of Representatives and the majority of European and American politicians are Christian, yet do we see them instituting laws that deprive Atheists of Liberty?
Really? Are you sure of this 'fact'? In many, if not most, states in this country atheists cannot hold public office. Dig a little deeper I'm sure you'll find more. It is always wise to really determine who you frienemy really is before you put too much power into their hands.
Liberals everywhere, are legends in their own minds. Certainly there are no Liberals in the US (with the exception of Bernie Sanders). Bernie's followers aren't Liberals, they are Free Shit people, same as Trump's people ... they differ on who should get the Free Shit.
The US is the biggest terrorist of all (since 1990). The Soviet Union was already moribund a year before Yeltsin. After that point, it was no longer necessary for the US to even pretend it is Liberal ... rather than Anglo-American Israelitism policy. The default political condition of any society is Conservative. Liberalism only occurs during periods of "old regime" turnover. The new king replaces the old king. Everyone thought initially that Nero was going to be a wonderful ruler.
Mike - in almost all jurisdictions, nudists can't get elected either. I am not sure the oppression of which you speak is systematic. You are describing electing atheists as another "litmus test" ... like the next President has to be a Gay Hispanic Japanese-American ... or we aren't Liberal enough ;-) There are plenty of other real oppressions of atheists, on a small scale, like Anglos wondering if a Hispanic American is a wetback or not.
Atheists are not holding public office because the majority of America is Christian and they're not voting for them. That is not depriving atheists of rights, free speech, or imprisoning or executing them for proselytizing, as we see in Muslim countries.
Therefore the fact that atheists aren't holding public office does not mean that there are any laws or policies that are taking away the rights or persecuting atheists.
America I don't see as terrorists because they are given direct orders not to kill innocent people, but sadly when people are using the innocent as shields , we kill innocent people, and when we try to achieve victory by destroying the enemy's targets , we kill innocent people in the process , but that's different than specifically giving orders to target innocent people. if there are ways to take out the terrorists and the tyrants without killing innocent people, we would do it and that's why I don't see us as terrorist.
Americans are given strict orders to try as hard as they can not to cause collateral damage and kill innocent people.
if we could have successfully instituted democracy in Iraq and Afghanistan, those countries would have a much higher quality of life, and by helping the Northern Alliance kick the Taliban out of Afghanistan ,we helped that country out tremendously , it's just it didn't last very long because it was too costly on America, and too many Afghani's and Iraqis don't want a country that is drama, violence, and tyranny-free.
America shouldn't be policing the globe, but sadly there were occasions it would have been a very good thing, like with the Rwanda genocide, America could have easily saved more than half a million lives if we had stepped in.
America's "terrorism" is simply that we see threats to the free world and crimes against humanity, tyranny, and barbaric policies, and we feel that we have to step in and stop it through military force.
Islamic terrorism is done because they hate freedom and they wish to enslave people, torment them, and force their beliefs and will down everybody's throat, and wish that their Sharia would dominate the globe.
The motives are what tell me America is not the greatest terrorist in the world. We want people to not have to live lives enslaved , tormented, terrorized, and stripped of all rights. That is why we get involved in all the conflicts America has gotten involved in in my lifetime.
So I love America and the world would be much worse and likely would have lost World War 2 or the globe would have been dominated by communism without America's crucial help
Thank God the free world is putting sick regimes in check.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/CoDp6NnSmItoY/giphy.gif)
Quote from: drunkenshoe on March 05, 2016, 08:39:37 AM
World hasn't seen more successful terrorists than the international policies-acts of the USA and its allies yet.
The world has never seen worse eh? Fascinating.
I was thinking of SJWs when you mentioned greatest threat.
Quote from: pope-a-dope on March 05, 2016, 03:57:45 PM
if we could have successfully instituted democracy in Iraq and Afghanistan, those countries would have a much higher quality of life, and by helping the Northern Alliance kick the Taliban out of Afghanistan ,we helped that country out tremendously , it's just it didn't last very long because it was too costly on America, and too many Afghani's and Iraqis don't want a country that is drama, violence, and tyranny-free.
if you successfully put democracy there, they will implement which ever flavor of sharia they like. and start killing the infidels.
if American are so much for freedom, why are saudia royalties still alive. :headscratch:
Some people can't see the hypocrisy of the government foreign policy ... because they are chauvinist. I expect that as much of Pakistanis as of Americans. And there are still Americans who don't see the humor in Team America World Police satire.
If you love your home country, good for you ... Germans were the same in WW II, and Russians during the Cold War. They felt just as justified in exterminating Poles and Englishmen as Americans might have felt toward Afghans and Iraqis.
It is a serious foreign policy contradiction, if the US ignores threats, then we are guilty of allowing evil to rise, but if we fight threats, then we are guilty of being the evil. Everything changed in 1945 ... with nukes and long range delivery systems. WW II couldn't happen today ... advanced technology won't allow it.
I do not see muslims as a greatest threat. This is all propaganda. It depends on the muslim really. But muslims could never over take america. We have too much technology and the american citizens would never stand for it.
But why do some people want you to be afraid, and how are they going to profit by it? This is so much like the 1930s, but with no Churchill or FDR to explain it to us.
We need to unite to fight the boogieman. It's true! Just look under your bed at night. Ever wonder why you no longer get a nickel when you lose a tooth? The boogieman is waging war against the tooth fairy and keeps stealing YOUR nickel!
Quote from: Nonsensei on March 05, 2016, 04:27:57 PM
The world has never seen worse eh? Fascinating.
No, it hasn't. Bu that depends on the size of your world. It's actually something much much bigger than 'America, Europe and the enemy out to get us around it'.
Also you realise that USA and allies includes the country I live in too, right? I can never be sure with your usual world vision.
Quote from: Jack89 on March 05, 2016, 04:59:32 PM
I was thinking of SJWs when you mentioned greatest threat.
It must be very nice to live in a world that small and cosy. You'll fit right into Catholicism.
Quote from: AllPurposeAtheist on March 05, 2016, 07:35:53 PM
We need to unite to fight the boogieman. It's true! Just look under your bed at night. Ever wonder why you no longer get a nickel when you lose a tooth? The boogieman is waging war against the tooth fairy and keeps stealing YOUR nickel!
:rotflmao:
It wouldn't be humane for America and nations that allow their people the luxury of separation of religion and state, freedom to blaspheme, free speech for or against Religion, to go into all nations that do not allow those liberties, and overthrow their governments, and institute one like ours , but if it were successfully done, regardless of how inhumane it might initiate be, the world would absolutely be a better place.
Especially for Atheists.
The lives of hundreds of millions of people would not be ruined, enslaved, stripped of Rights, and on house arrest for having female genitalia is one example.
And while I'm at it I'm waging war on stupid people and in fact anyone who doesn't agree needs to be beaten daily and twice on Sunday.. Just imagine Saturday nights for them..
'You know what tomorrow is? Wahhhh!'
Quote from: pope-a-dope on March 06, 2016, 08:53:14 AM
It wouldn't be humane for America and nations that allow their people the luxury of separation of religion and state, freedom to blaspheme, free speech for or against Religion, to go into all nations that do not allow those liberties, and overthrow their governments, and institute one like ours , but if it were successfully done, regardless of how inhumane it might initiate be, the world would absolutely be a better place.
Especially for Atheists.
The lives of hundreds of millions of people would not be ruined, enslaved, stripped of Rights, and on house arrest for having female genitalia is one example.
So what your saying is the ends justifies the means.
Hey I'd like to be a dictator for a day too and take a wack at making the world a better place.
Quote from: pope-a-dope on March 06, 2016, 08:53:14 AM
It wouldn't be humane for America and nations that allow their people the luxury of separation of religion and state, freedom to blaspheme, free speech for or against Religion, to go into all nations that do not allow those liberties, and overthrow their governments, and institute one like ours , but if it were successfully done, regardless of how inhumane it might initiate be, the world would absolutely be a better place.
Especially for Atheists.
The lives of hundreds of millions of people would not be ruined, enslaved, stripped of Rights, and on house arrest for having female genitalia is one example.
Can you name me one instance when this was successful?
[mod]Phattmatt, nice to see you're back on here with a new account.[/mod]
People like Mike are the reason I take people like prs or the hate preachers on campus rhetoric seriously... it only takes one brain fried person like him to buy it and ruin some innocent people or people's lives.
Absolutely not.
For one thing, the Christians would probably find they have more common ground with Muslims then they would atheists.
They do not like atheists, they don't trust us, none of that. Who else remembers that study a few years back where an alarming proportion of them basically thought we were the scum of the Earth:
http://news.nationalpost.com/holy-post/religious-people-do-not-believe-in-atheists-study
The other thing is, they aren't really a military threat. Even the wealthier countries don't have great post secondary education, which you ultimately need to pour back into your country to create quality GDP, manufacturing, high tech industry etc. Among other things this basically means stuff like jets, tanks, missiles etc. need to be imported.
After reading Ayan Hirsi Ali's books it clarified my understanding as to why Islam needs a reformation if it is even going to be considered for toleration by the liberal left or anyone. How can one be tolerant of a religion that promotes violence and death by stoning or any other means to women and homosexuals for social norms in the rest of the world society such as showing a modest amount of skin or preference of a life partner.
Allright wrote:QuoteAfter reading Ayan Hirsi Ali's books it clarified my understanding as to why Islam needs a reformation if it is even going to be considered for toleration by the liberal left or anyone. How can one be tolerant of a religion that promotes violence and death by stoning or any other means to women and homosexuals for social norms in the rest of the world society such as showing a modest amount of skin or preference of a life partner.
Please do not read Ayan Hirsi Ali's books, she is a racist Islamophobe, she is full of hate to the one true and noble religion.
Just concentrate on berating Christians and Jews.
For many decades we have been taught that Islam is peace, and they are pioneers of wisdom, beacons of morality, advanced in all fields of science that the infiels appropiated for themselves, claiming that they have discovered everything, which is of course a lie.
Those bad things that you read in the media about the Taleban, ISIS, Boko Haram, Muslim Brotherhood, Hizbollah are all smears, lies that never happened. They are simply spread to make Islam look bad.
There is no such thing as jihad, never was.
Do you honestly believe that they are beheading, raping, enslaving, burning alive, blowing up people, molesting children? Do you?
Those are not real Muslims, it is not real Islam.
The Quran forbids killing the innocents. The Quran teaches peace, tolerance, love for fellow men.
Muhammad was the most peaceful, moral, perfect example of a man that every Muslim must emulate.
He never robbed, raped, mass murdered, enslaved, child molested, despite of what the Islamic sources say.
All lies.
You have been misguided about the noble religion. Hope this helps you understand it a bit better.
Muslims are not your enemy.
It is just a lie spread by the media to make you afraid of yet another boogie man.
Peace be with you brother.
Quote from: pr126 on March 06, 2016, 11:30:31 PM
Allright wrote:
Please do not read Ayan Hirsi Ali's books, she is a racist Islamophobe, she is full of hate to the one true and noble religion.
Just concentrate on berating Christians and Jews.
For many decades we have been taught that Islam is peace, and they are pioneers of wisdom, beacons of morality, advanced in all fields of science that the infiels appropiated for themselves, claiming that they have discovered everything, which is of course a lie.
Those bad things that you read in the media about the Taleban, ISIS, Boko Haram, Muslim Brotherhood, Hizbollah are all smears, lies that never happened. They are simply spread to make Islam look bad.
There is no such thing as jihad, never was.
Do you honestly believe that they are beheading, raping, enslaving, burning alive, blowing up people, molesting children? Do you?
Those are not real Muslims, it is not real Islam.
The Quran forbids killing the innocents. The Quran teaches peace, tolerance, love for fellow men.
Muhammad was the most peaceful, moral, perfect example of a man that every Muslim must emulate.
He never robbed, raped, mass murdered, enslaved, child molested, despite of what the Islamic sources say.
All lies.
You have been misguided about the noble religion. Hope this helps you understand it a bit better.
Muslims are not your enemy.
It is just a lie spread by the media to make you afraid of yet another boogie man.
Peace be with you brother.
I thought pr went crazy, and then I got to the part that I highlighted in bold and I realized he is still anti-islam.
Well. Maybe he's still a bit nuts, but he still has the same stance. lol
What?! I've been rumbled? Anti Islam? Me? Never. Say it isn't true.
See you in the mosque at the Friday khutbah.
Peace be with you, brother.
Seriously though, anyone here on AF not anti Islam, should check his / her moral compass.
Would anyone here make a remark on me for being anti Christian?
Holy smokes pr126 ? those posts are really funny.
Quote from: leo on March 06, 2016, 11:52:24 PM
Holy smokes pr126 ? those posts are really funny.
Funny? Nah. I have just written what you can find in the Salon, Huffpo, Washington Times, Boston Globe, SPLC, etc.
The mainstream media. Ask John Esposito, Karen Armstrong, Yvonne Haddad, Daliah Mogahed, Huma Abedin, and even the incumbent POTUS.
Read his Cairo Speech (https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/remarks-president-cairo-university-6-04-09)
Example:
QuoteAnd throughout history, Islam has demonstrated through words and deeds the possibilities of religious tolerance and racial equality.
Don't mention the 270 millon (https://www.politicalislam.com/tears-of-jihad/) slaughtered in this religious tolerance.
Quote from: Mike Cl on March 05, 2016, 09:26:37 AMReally? Are you sure of this 'fact'? In many, if not most, states in this country atheists cannot hold public office. Dig a little deeper I'm sure you'll find more. It is always wise to really determine who you frienemy really is before you put too much power into their hands.
I'm really late to the party, but I'd like to point out that there are only 7 states where atheists technically can't legally hold public office: Akansas, Maryland, Mississippi, North Carolina, South Carolina, Tennessee, and Texas. 8 if you count Pennsylvania, which prohibits theists from being disqualified for office because of their religious beliefs (this protection is conspicuously not extended to atheists) However, those laws are unenforceable and superseded by the Supreme Court ruling on Torcaso vs Watkins (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torcaso_v._Watkins). Atheists can legally hold public office, though of course there is tremendous social pressure against that. Coming out as an atheist basically makes you unelectable in any of the above states.
Even though you're not completely right in the details, pope-a-dope's argument that Christians haven't instituted laws depriving atheists of rights is pants-on-fire lying and your disagreement with him about that is supported by historical fact. Blasphemy laws were quite common in Europe and European colonies like the US, for starters.
And yeah, teaming up with people who currently express fatwa envy and some very dubious notions of religious freedom such as "freedom of religion, not freedom from religion" seems like an extremely risky move. Instead, secular-minded people of whatever background should unite against theocrats of all stripes.
Reformation IS NOT EQUAL TO Westernisation.
Islamic Countries are NOT expected to be reformed, they are expected to be westernised; accept western values, life styles, form of existences, cultural labels; western history and social contract and their own identity in western terms; if possible their religion and dress code please.
What is The West going to make of a reformed Middle East? Who needs a reformed Islamic World? What is it good for? USA and its allies -not to mention everyone waiting to make the best of any situation- only need enemies. Enemy is good for countless kinds of benefits and profits. What are you going to do with benign policies?
Quote from: CloneKai on March 05, 2016, 05:18:26 PM
if you successfully put democracy there, they will implement which ever flavor of sharia they like. and start killing the infidels.
if American are so much for freedom, why are saudia royalties still alive. :headscratch:
The relationship between the US and SA was forged during the Bush administration. To make this story short: the Bush family has been in the oil industry for decades before Bush father was CIA director, vice-president then president. During that time, over a period of 30 years, the ties between the two families, the Bush and the Saudi royals went from a business nature to political - all that came to the fore in 1991 when the royal family convinced Bush senior to invade Kuwait and free it from Saddam Hussein. This conflict could have only occurred because of the ties between these two families, otherwise history would have been different. During that conflict SA permitted the USA to have a military base in SA, and that was unprecedented - it was that decision that prompted bin Laden to declare war on USA - recall that bin Laden had been an ally to the USA in its war against the Soviet Union in Afghanistan. The ties between the Bush family and the royals continued and were further strengthened during the administration of Bush son, in particularly in its fight against terrorism after 9/11. So this special treatment of SA by the USA has a long history. It's not that the American people are in love with the SA, quite the opposite, but the American leadership through the Bush family made it so.
Quote from: PickelledEggs on March 06, 2016, 11:43:05 PM
I thought pr went crazy, and then I got to the part that I highlighted in bold and I realized he is still anti-islam.
Well. Maybe he's still a bit nuts, but he still has the same stance. lol
* my boldeningI'm surprised PE. Lately you've been going around telling members of this forum not to be nasty and mean, encouraging everyone to be respectful of each other. Belittling pr seems to be contrary to that policy. I would hope that you would apply the same moral standard to yourself.
Shoe - Yes, part of our colonial mind-set ... is that other continents need to recapitulate European history, to be civilized. The Reformation only applied to N European countries. I am still waiting for a Protestant English-speaking Spain and Italy ;-)
Quote from: josephpalazzo on March 07, 2016, 05:38:27 AM
* my boldening
I'm surprised PE. Lately you've been going around telling members of this forum not to be nasty and mean, encouraging everyone to be respectful of each other. Belittling pr seems to be contrary to that policy. I would hope that you would apply the same moral standard to yourself.
:roll:
Quote from: josephpalazzo on March 07, 2016, 05:38:27 AM
* my boldening
I'm surprised PE. Lately you've been going around telling members of this forum not to be nasty and mean, encouraging everyone to be respectful of each other. Belittling pr seems to be contrary to that policy. I would hope that you would apply the same moral standard to yourself.
I thought it was pretty clear that what I said was only in jest. After all, he's joking about supporting Islam in a way that to the untrained eye would have you think he actually does. I have a feeling that he could tell I meant no harm with it. If he did think I meant to say that with malicious intent, then it should be pretty clear at least now that I didn't.
-Sent from your mom
Quote from: PickelledEggs on March 07, 2016, 11:17:53 AM
I thought it was pretty clear that what I said was only in jest. After all, he's joking about supporting Islam in a way that to the untrained eye would have you think he actually does. I have a feeling that he could tell I meant no harm with it. If he did think I meant to say that with malicious intent, then it should be pretty clear at least now that I didn't.
-Sent from your mom
Glad that you clarified your post, I can now approve your post...;-)