After being an atheist most of my adult life, I find myself believing in God. It’s strange to say that out loud, or write it down, but there it is.
I think my 6 months of walking in the woods last year had a lot do with changing my world view, but it wasn’t until about a month ago that I came to the realization, or as many of you will think, delusion, that God is real.
It started with a thought experiment that substituted God with “goodness itself†and grew from there. I gained a new perspective and applied it to what I knew of Aquinas, Chesterton, Lewis, and the Catechism of the Catholic Church. It fit pretty well, especially after admitting that I think morality is is not only objective, but necessary for human well-being.
So I dug up my Catholic roots and started attending Mass and classes at the local Parish. I’m struggling with some of the mystical concepts, but I see a lot of subtlety and practical application in the doctrine. I think I was 11 years old last time I seriously looked at them. That was 40 years ago.
I suppose another religion would fit, I quite like Judaism, but as the Dalai Lama has often advised, it’s best to stick with the tradition you grew up with.
Well, there it is. Reggie would be so disappointed:)
Catholicism seems to deeply affect people who grew up in that faith and I have seen Catholics leave the church only to return years later. I believe in inherent moral values but I think they evolved as part of being a human and are not prescribed by a diety. Recently I have learned more about the psychological benefits of many religious practices, although sometimes you have to believe in the magic in order for it to work. Good luck on your spiritual path!
There is a great deal of comfort that comes with conformity among fellows, not to mention the benefit of self-assurance that comes when everyone agrees with the premise. A bit cyclical, but you get that.
I wish you well.
Just make sure you let your fellow Catholics know that we atheists are not that bad. Well, I mean most of us aren't that bad...
:what: That way leads to the DARK SIDE, Anakin. :holdtears:
The skeptic in me really wants to know what led you to this conclusion. Based on your posting history, I have a hard time believing that a thought experiment is all it took to get you started back down that path. In any case, I hope you find what you're looking for.
Quote from: Solomon Zorn on March 02, 2016, 02:52:13 PM
:what: That way leads to the DARK SIDE, Anakin. :holdtears:
Aren't we always joking about atheism
being the Dark Side? :lol:
Quote from: Jack89 on March 02, 2016, 12:42:57 PM
After being an atheist most of my adult life, I find myself believing in God. It’s strange to say that out loud, or write it down, but there it is.
I think my 6 months of walking in the woods last year had a lot do with changing my world view, but it wasn’t until about a month ago that I came to the realization, or as many of you will think, delusion, that God is real.
It started with a thought experiment that substituted God with “goodness itself†and grew from there. I gained a new perspective and applied it to what I knew of Aquinas, Chesterton, Lewis, and the Catechism of the Catholic Church. It fit pretty well, especially after admitting that I think morality is is not only objective, but necessary for human well-being.
So I dug up my Catholic roots and started attending Mass and classes at the local Parish. I’m struggling with some of the mystical concepts, but I see a lot of subtlety and practical application in the doctrine. I think I was 11 years old last time I seriously looked at them. That was 40 years ago.
I suppose another religion would fit, I quite like Judaism, but as the Dalai Lama has often advised, it’s best to stick with the tradition you grew up with.
Well, there it is. Reggie would be so disappointed:)
Im a pretty hardcore skeptic and refuse to believe in supernatural stuff with no evidence. But frankly in order to survive in this meaningless world i have hopeful believes in what may just be pretty lies like pretty much everyone else. Where do you think all this utopic ideologies, all this ethical theories that give meaning, all this hero tales that make you think that magic is real (at least in the sense baruch talks about which is similar to how it is portrayed in LOTR) come from. If it is not an organized religion then it is a subjective collection of hopeful pretty thoughts.
Quote from: GSOgymrat on March 02, 2016, 02:14:50 PM
Catholicism seems to deeply affect people who grew up in that faith and I have seen Catholics leave the church only to return years later. I believe in inherent moral values but I think they evolved as part of being a human and are not prescribed by a diety. Recently I have learned more about the psychological benefits of many religious practices, although sometimes you have to believe in the magic in order for it to work. Good luck on your spiritual path!
I believe moral values evolved as well, and don't see a contradiction. I don't think the Catholic church does either. They're on board with the big bang, abiogenesis, evolution, and science in general.
BTW, I appreciate your kind response, and everyone elses.
In the end the main thing that matters is that you find the path that gives meaning to your existence. Otherwise everything else would be hopeless and you might as well just curl up and die.
Don't know you all that well, Jack, but I guess if it makes you get through life better, then go for it.
But I have a hard time thinking nature lead you to god. Nature is what lead me from any thoughts of their being a god. I mean, look at nature. It is not cruel--it is not kind--it just is. It is truly a eat or be eaten world we live in, nature wise. And the creatures here have no say about it. To gather energy all creatures have to kill to get that energy. Plants gather it directly from the sun. So, why did god set it up that way? Why not have all creatures get the energy needed to live from the sun so that we would not have to kill to gather the energy? That alone makes me deeply doubt the existence of any sort of god.
I apologize in advance, but this is just too good for me to pass on it. Did you miss the priest you had growing up, AKA "the ex"?
Sorry! I really am! It's my last Catholic priest joke...in this thread...today...probably...
We're all able to make our own choices on what we follow in life, and we should never be strung up by what others tell us to believe in.
I would say though, in returning to your religious roots, take with you a more broader perspective of things, look at the religion itself, the people associated with it, and if you still wish to find some way to follow it, that is all for you to decide.
Best of luck.
Congrats on taking a new wandering step on your own journey. The Catholic Church provides a strong structure to support its parishioners ... and if you have an ethnic tie to it, then that can be a draw as well. Another reason for choosing is where your spouse goes. That can create integrity problems though, if your thinking drifts on its own.
Many of my ancestors are Irishmen, but I have no feeling for Ireland or for the insular Catholicism that goes with it. I have a strong liking to Japanese religion, but I have no Japanese ancestry connection at all. If I were to dress up as Japanese, it would only be as a burlesque Gaijin. I can at least pass as Jewish, given that is what attracts me, but not orthodox, because of my freethinking and irreligion. I don't fit in anywhere socially, but I can pursue my path individually.
Here's a metered response.
Quote from: Jack89After being an atheist most of my adult life, I find myself believing in God. It’s strange to say that out loud, or write it down, but there it is.
Emotional notion, friend. Let me respond in kind. Some of us will miss you, when you leave The Isle behind. Loss is mine.
Quote from: Jack89I think my 6 months of walking in the woods last year had a lot do with changing my world view, but it wasn’t until about a month ago that I came to the realization, or as many of you will think, delusion, that God is real.
Emotional notion, friend. Let me respond in kind. Nature is magnificent, but not at all divine. Awe is mine.
Quote from: Jack89It started with a thought experiment that substituted God with “goodness itself†and grew from there.
Emotional notion, friend. Let me respond in kind. Viciousness and tenderness are helplessly entwined. Pain is mine.
Quote from: Jack89I gained a new perspective and applied it to what I knew of Aquinas, Chesterton, Lewis, and the Catechism of the Catholic Church.
Emotional notion, friend. Let me respond in kind. Mama told me mental masturbation makes you blind. Sight is mine.
Quote from: Jack89It fit pretty well, especially after admitting that I think morality is is not only objective,...
Emotional notion, friend. Let me respond in kind. Subjectivity is just the limit of the mind. Choice is mine.
Quote from: Jack89...but necessary for human well-being.
Emotional notion, friend. Let me respond in kind. Morals don't deter the ones destructively inclined. Love is mine.
Quote from: Jack89I believe moral values evolved as well, and don't see a contradiction. I don't think the Catholic church does either.
Emotional notion, friend. Let me respond in kind. Human beings grow, Catholicism's predefined. Change is mine.
Quote from: Jack89So I dug up my Catholic roots and started attending Mass and classes at the local Parish. I’m struggling with some of the mystical concepts,
Emotional notion, friend. Let me respond in kind. Don't suppress your common sense, till sense is realigned. Conscience mine.
Quote from: Jack89but I see a lot of subtlety and practical application in the doctrine.
Emotional notion, friend. Let me respond in kind. Normal human functions can be Biblically maligned. Lust is mine.
Quote from: Jack89I think I was 11 years old last time I seriously looked at them. That was 40 years ago.
Emotional notion, friend. Let me respond in kind. Children go with ease, where full-grown men would feel confined. Age is mine.
Quote from: Jack89I suppose another religion would fit, I quite like Judaism, but as the Dalai Lama has often advised, it’s best to stick with the tradition you grew up with.
Emotional notion, friend. Let me respond in kind. I''ll be waiting on The Isle, when your way back you find. Hope is mine.
Quote from: GSOgymrat on March 02, 2016, 02:14:50 PM
Catholicism seems to deeply affect people who grew up in that faith and I have seen Catholics leave the church only to return years later.
I've seen this too in a lot of Catholics I know.
Anyway, Jack... Whatever makes you happy, is good enough for me. I know you're not an asshole and that's all that really matters in the end
Jack89
QuoteI think my 6 months of walking in the woods last year had a lot do with changing my world view, but it wasn’t until about a month ago that I came to the realization, or as many of you will think, delusion, that God is real.
It is best to get away from other people and find your own path otherwise we simply end up following others, it is easier to follow. I had a similar journey and in the end I did not find science nor did I find religion... I found the universe. I looked upward on a calm, clear night and understood that our little world is not the world and all that stuff out there doesn't care what billions of misguided human beings believe. What we think or believe has no bearing on it in any way and we are not the center of the universe. I found life is very simple, to exist and have purpose and a true purpose to exist is the very thing lacking in our world. Why are here, what are we supposed to be doing, what should I be doing, what makes me happy?. When you find your purpose here you will find meaning in your existence and there is no church that can help you in this respect.
Hello Jack, frankly I am surprised by your choice.
Christianity is so old school, apart from being false.
The one true religion is Islam. Real men chose it, because they want to be respected.
There are so many benefits to be had, that is only available to Muslims.
Here are a few.
You can marry and have sex with a child. You already married? No problem, you can have up to four.
You will be instantly become superior to all kafirs, enslave them or kill them as the mood takes you.
Waging holy war on unbelievers is compulsory. It is called jihad.
You can take their property, it is halal to plunder them, have any number of sex slaves, it is all permitted.
Just follow the Prophet Muhammad's example, (peace be upon him), you can't go wrong.
And the after life is even better. 72 virgins, boys like pearls, ( depends on your orientation) rivers of wine, many slaves to serve you in eternity.
Well worth it. Don't believe me? It is in the Quran. Read it.
I hope you will Reconsider and go for the one True Religion Of Peace, Islam.
If know what's good for you.
Allahuakbar, brother.
Quote from: mauricio on March 02, 2016, 03:34:13 PM
In the end the main thing that matters is that you find the path that gives meaning to your existence. Otherwise everything else would be hopeless and you might as well just curl up and die.
Perhaps, but the path to swallow lies in order to live at ease is kind of pathetic. Some people don't have that choice - if you live in a repressive country, you may have to in order to survive - but if you live in a fee society that choice is less than honorable.
@ Jack89
I'm not going to wish you good luck, I just hope that one day you'll wake up.
Catholicism (a serious post here, by the way) does seem to be more deeply ingrained than other religions. Granted, I don't know a lot of Catholics or really care about the religion of most people I know, but the Catholics I have known have struck me as having their Catholic beliefs be an integral part of who they are, or at least, that's what they think.
Maybe there's a reason Catholic services are still medieval and ritualistic. Maybe they discovered the proper brainwashing method centuries ago and haven't changed it since. It makes you wonder, where would they get such advanced brainwashing skills hundreds, even thousands of years ago?
[spoiler](http://treasure.diylol.com/uploads/post/image/208681/resized_ancient-aliens-invisible-something-meme-generator-i-m-not-saying-it-was-aliens-but-it-was-aliens-1824f9.jpg)
Okay, mostly serious, anyway.[/spoiler]
Not gonna lie; hoping you'll come back around.
But as long as you don't start proselythising and I don't start being an ass, I think we'll get allong fine.