I'm listening to the communist manifesto.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdYLRTGmQ3c
Marxism is still out of style, but at least is isn't tied up with anti-Soviet or anti-Chinese feeling. We can look at it again with fresh eyes. Zizek is a contemporary living Marxist, I am rather fond of him. Habermas is also Marxist, Shoe is rather fond of him.
In the Communist Manifesto, Marx supports public schooling. Because of this conservatives oppose public schooling. Good thing Marx wasn't opposed to spaghetti, otherwise conservatives would oppose spaghetti ;-) Some posters are rather conservative ... by age they are still living in the Cold War. I have come in from the cold, around 2000.
Believe it or not, it was assigned reading for Modern Western History class, at the Bible college that I attended. I overloaded on my class schedule, and never got around to reading all of it. Now though, I have no interest.
Whatever book that is current regarding "zombie apocalypse" is more relevant. Marx was early industrial.
Quote from: Baruch on February 09, 2016, 06:07:25 PM
Whatever book that is current regarding "zombie apocalypse" is more relevant. Marx was early industrial.
Many of the things he said are still relevant today.
I think capitalism won by conceding that communism had a few points. Like minimum wage, workers comp, child labor laws, 40 hour work week, etc. If I was living in the dawn of Industrial Revolution, I would be out to overthrow the system too. Hell, even the lack of labor and consumer protection in the US now really pisses me off. Not to mention the various corporate interests that seem to run everything via campaign contributions.
Quote from: _Xenu_ on February 09, 2016, 06:30:43 PM
I think capitalism won by conceding that communism had a few points. Like minimum wage, workers comp, child labor laws, 40 hour work week, etc. If I was living in the dawn of Industrial Revolution, I would be out to overthrow the system too. Hell, even the lack of labor and consumer protection in the US now really pisses me off. Not to mention the various corporate interests that seem to run everything via campaign contributions.
I think capitalism is a horrible system, imo socialism is the best system, I think that education and healthcare are human rights, not commodities.
Quote from: Jannabear on February 09, 2016, 06:35:38 PM
I think capitalism is a horrible system, imo socialism is the best system, I think that education and healthcare are human rights, not commodities.
Of course there is no real socialism/communism. Communism in practice is state-capitalism. Socialism in practice is the the hybrid between capitalism (private-capitalism) and communism ... so it is also capitalist. In socialism, part of society is run by the government, and part by private interest. There is a lot of kabuki in politics. Are the corporations controlled opposition to the government, or is the government controlled opposition to the corporations? Politics and economics can never be separated. It isn't usually one or the other, but a mixture. The Soviet Union and Red China were exceptionally toward the communist end of the spectrum. But there were non-Russian capitalists helping the Soviet Union at various times ... both before WW II and during WW II. Typically either form is opposed to external aid, because of suspicion and control issues ... but the Soviet Union faced destruction three times ... the final time they didn't get any aid, they were simply allowed to self destruct.
But in pure capitalism, like in Victorian England, things are really bad for working people. Over time their government lost support of the people ... as happened also in the Soviet Union. FDR was a clear example of socialism in action ... he didn't seek to destroy capitalism, but save it from its own mistakes. The crucial decision was forced by the Axis forces ... do the democratic capitalists support Germany or the Soviet Union. A Faustian bargain. But I think the right choice was made in realizing that the Axis forces were too wild for their own good, and the Soviet Union was less of an immediate threat. So the democratic capitalists held their noses and supported one of the more evil dictators in history, to defeat an even more evil dictator (and his brutal allies). Germany was in fact socialist under Hitler ... the government played a big role in the economy, but private industry not only stayed private, it got a big boost from armament production ... as happened in the other Axis powers.
I listen to Professor R.D. Wolff (http://www.rdwolff.com/) on Tuesdays, on KBBF 89.1 FM. He really makes clear the differences between capitalism and other less greed-intensive systems. Capitalism is very unstable, causing untold misery with its many ups and downs.
The primary problem with capitalism is the status quo. People don't start from equal positions at 18 years old. Their position is based on random factors and the accumulation of power, wealth and fame in certain individuals and certain families. The wealthy, powerful and famous want to say that the reaction against them is mere jealousy. It is more than mere jealousy. It is reaction against the notion that life is unfair. Some of the poor, powerless and anonymous want a free lunch ... but so do the Elite. This doesn't separate them.
So life is unfair. What do do about it? Usually this means either ameliorating or destroying the status quo. It is very destructive to destroy the status quo ... so reasonable people opt for amelioration. That way everyone is unhappy, but society isn't destroyed by either extreme. If you do nothing about the status quo, then per entropy, things only get worse.