http://www.nytimes.com/elections/2016/primaries/iowa
DELEGATES:
REP: Cruz 8, Trump 7, Rubio 7, Carson 3, Rand 1
DEM: Clinton 23, Sander 21
If we go by the unexpected factor, Rubio is the winner.
Come ooon Bernie!
I've gotta say, I'm relived that someone other than Trump got top billing for the Republicans.
But on the Dem side, it was sooo close! I was watching it with 99% results were in and it was 49.8% to 49.6%. Sanders just barely got edged out.
The only thing we know now is that 76% of Iowa republicans are going to be called losers by tRump and by golly, who can argue with him?
Quote from: Hydra009 on February 02, 2016, 10:53:28 AM
I've gotta say, I'm relived that someone other than Trump got top billing for the Republicans.
I'd much rather suffer through President Trump then President Cruz
Either would be horrible. Let me clarify, I'm not happy Cruz won or anything. I honestly don't think Cruz has a snowball's chance in hell of winning the general election, so I'm not worried about President Cruz. What I am worried about is Trump's unexpectedly strong campaign. I'm just glad that his campaign is finally showing some cracks. Every defeat, even small ones like Iowa, is a setback for his campaign.
It really makes me wonder just what it is about tRump that makes anyone want to vote for him.. I just wonder how so many people could possibly think that an ultra arrogant and offensive rich guy should be in charge of...well....anything much less a nuclear arsenal. It kind of flips the notion of Murrika being 'the greatest nation on the face of the earth ' into the dumbest possible idea ever.. We really need a law that petmits us to throw anyone who votes for tRump right into the middle of the Pacific ocean..
OMG! OMG! OMG! Mike Huckabee has suspended his presidential campaign! Now what are we gonna do without the guy who thinks we should all be made to listen to preacher X at gun point? All is lost! Sell everything you own and give it to the poor!
Quote from: AllPurposeAtheist on February 02, 2016, 01:46:33 PM
It really makes me wonder just what it is about tRump that makes anyone want to vote for him.. I just wonder how so many people could possibly think that an ultra arrogant and offensive rich guy should be in charge of...well....anything much less a nuclear arsenal. It kind of flips the notion of Murrika being 'the greatest nation on the face of the earth ' into the dumbest possible idea ever.. We really need a law that petmits us to throw anyone who votes for tRump right into the middle of the Pacific ocean..
I have a friend, usually intelligent, who likes both Trump and Sarah Palin. One thing they have going for them, in his mind, is that they're not Democrats. He sees the ACA as a tax on the poor. He sees it as an order to buy insurance he can't afford. He has no idea how to get the subsidies and, even though I've told him repeatedly to do so, I don't think he's ever looked it up because, frankly, who wants to go out of their way to have contact with the government? This is especially true if you're behind in your taxes and don't have millions of dollars to pay a lawyer if they should decide to take particular interest in you because of it. The Democrats really fucked themselves with the Affordable Care Act. The American people still haven't forgiven them and won't for some time. The Individual Mandate is as popular as the plague, especially with the poor. And while I realize you can't have the good parts without the bad parts to pay for it, frankly, the individual mandate is a tax on being alive. I don't like being told I have to do business with a particular group and I never will. If the government tells me that simply being alive means that I MUST have something then the government should provide that thing, end of story. If I HAVE TO have it by law for no reason other than I was born then give it to me. Otherwise let me decide whether or not I get it and leave me the hell alone about it. Maybe it is the "responsible" thing to do, but frankly in a free society I have no mandate to be "responsible".
The second thing which appears to have swayed him is sound bites. He doesn't follow politics, so what he knows he likely gets from other people and other people repeat the parts they like to people they think will like them. So he hears that smart thing Sarah Palin said that one time in 1987 in the middle of having an undiagnosed stroke and not the millions of stupid things she said between then and now. With Trump it's the same thing. When he opens his mouth explosive diarrhea just spews forth from it uncontrollably. Eventually someone sees the shape of Jesus in one of the still frames and THAT is the tidbit they pass on, so to speak. Honestly, he's said a few things I have liked, but I heard the REST of what he stands for too, not just the diamond in the rough that occasionally comes forth. That we need to be friendlier with Russia and China, for example. America has this "We're better than all yall combined" attitude which, frankly, in a global world just sucks. To many other countries, even sometimes our friends, we're the asshole neighbors nobody wants to live by. So, yes, we need to be friendlier on a global scale, but we DO NOT need to be friendlier to these two, specifically, while being total pricks to Mexico. He's not talking about "global" relations, he's talking about these two, specifically and exclusively, which makes his idea stupid. But if all I had heard was the part I liked, or if I didn't think about any other countries when I thought about that comment, it would seem intelligent and insightful instead of being just the still-frame of a big blob of shit that it really is.
So, in short terms, they're "mildly informed". They don't really follow politics and most of what politicians say go straight through, drowned out by the whistling of the wind blowing through their heads. But Trump said something which caught their attention because they liked it. They expect to be disappointing by politicians, so they don't pay attention when they are. But when a politician says something they like, THAT they pay attention to. So they end up only hearing the parts they agree with, and Trump is so all over the map with his comments it doesn't matter what you're like politically, he has said something which, if it's all you heard about him and you were so disillusioned and disenfranchised with the whole political system that you really don't hold any hope that it will ever work for you (as the poor and, increasingly, what was once the middle class are these days), would make him look like a good candidate.
Quote from: AllPurposeAtheist on February 02, 2016, 01:51:32 PM
OMG! OMG! OMG! Mike Huckabee has suspended his presidential campaign! Now what are we gonna do without the guy who thinks we should all be made to listen to preacher X at gun point? All is lost! Sell everything you own and give it to the poor!
Oh, that is sad news. Because politicians just aren't religious or crazy enough these days and he was going to change that. At least we still have Cruz.
Quote from: Hydra009 on February 02, 2016, 10:53:28 AM
I've gotta say, I'm relived that someone other than Trump got top billing for the Republicans.
I'm honestly not. Ted Cruz is basically Donald Trump on the issues, without the gross narcissism, blustery personality, and idiotic statements. I would much rather have Donald Trump run against someone, because he's such a polarizing piece of shit.
Seriously, I can't forget the conversation I had with my ultra-Conservative, politically active, Church of Christ, gun-worshipping uncle over Christmas. He kept ranting about Donald Trump, and I asked him how he would vote if it came down Trump and Bernie, and he stared off into space for a while before saying, "I... don't know."
That's why I would give anything for Trump to get the nomination. Moderates and conservatives with half a brain hate him and probably a lot of his fanbase has never even voted in an election and probably wouldn't bother in this one.
I heard on KQED that there were six Demo districts that were so close that they had to flip a coin - and Clinton won every one of those flips. I'm glad there was a good turnout, let's hope that continues.
I doubt Iowa will be very important to the GOP candidates, since it hasn't been recently.
I can't stand the suspense! :evil:
Quote from: AllPurposeAtheist on February 02, 2016, 01:51:32 PM
OMG! OMG! OMG! Mike Huckabee has suspended his presidential campaign! Now what are we gonna do without the guy who thinks we should all be made to listen to preacher X at gun point? All is lost! Sell everything you own and give it to the poor!
But that fits the rumor, that Trump wants Huckabee as VP ;-( Trump will not pick any person as VP, who can't help in the general election ... that is why Kennedy picked Johnson. Trump isn't sufficiently religious to hold the Evangelical vote. But he Evangelicals, like with Palin, can hope to get their person in as VP, and then hope the President has an accident. Almost worked for George H W.
And I understand how actual policy by Democrats ... has alienated voters. They are responsible for Vietnam, they are responsible for being lame enough to let Nixon get elected (who didn't stand a chance otherwise), they are responsible for how lame Carter was in office, which led people to believe that Reagan seemed reasonable, which let the whole Bush clan into the White House (instead of outside trimming the hedge), they are responsible for the Clintons (hand chosen for greatness by Pamela Harriman, the grand dame of the D party ... and greatest courtesan of the 20th century). It took a lot of hatred for the Republicans (mostly Nixon), for me to consider the Donkeys at all, and in the end they drove me out with their "triangulation" ... and the Elephants have gone from bad to worse ever since Nixon.
Funny that the headlines are: "Cruz beats Trump", but "Clinton and Sanders in virtual ties"... yet the margin of victory in each case is almost the same, one notching the other. I'm wondering why the discrepancy. Anyway, the center of gravity has shifted to New Hampshire next Tuesday, where Sanders is overwhelming stronger than Clinton (ahead by 29%), and Trump leading by 24%.
So you guys do not think Cruz is more dangerous than Trump?
There was this news on a channel (cnnturk) showing kids from Iowa, answering questions about the election and the candidates. It was so cute and funny.
E:That was supposed to be cnn turk.
Yes I think Cruz is a bigger threat than Trump, but not by a lot and mostly because I think he has a better shot at winning the general election.
I heard this morning, on KQED, Bernie referred to as "the Anti-Trump." Sounds about right to me.
Quote from: drunkenshoe on February 03, 2016, 12:29:36 PM
So you guys do not think Cruz is more dangerous than Trump?
There was this news on a channel (cnnturk) showing kids from Iowa, answering questions about the election and the candidates. It was so cute and funny.
E:That was supposed to be cnn turk.
Cruz is a fucking nightmare, but he has WAY less of a chance to win a general election than Trump. I'm going to invoke Godwin and say this about Trump: he's like Hitler. He has horrid ideas, but he knows how to sell them. Cruz? He's a robot trying to appear human, and failing badly. Cruz won Iowa because of the evangelicals, but I doubt that would be enough of a push in the general election.
(http://media.salon.com/2014/06/ted_cruz_transformers-620x412.jpg)
The best part about Trump losing Iowa was watching him be butthurt about it (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-35486983). He does have a point that Cruz's campaign has been sending out misleading leaflets, but that's pretty much the GOP norm at this point. I'd be surprised if Jeb Bush doesn't "find" a stack of ballots written in crayon that swing the vote in his favor in Florida.