I've been puzzled by the interest in the "feminism/SJW/MRA/trigger warning/gamer gate" cluster of topics by atheists. I'm not referring to the left versus right culture war, which is everywhere, but the ongoing argument of this subset of social issues. I am well aware that atheists are a diverse group but of the sites I frequent it's the atheist websites and videos where these discussions repeatedly surface.
I have never heard anyone actually discuss these topics offline. At a gathering of about a dozen people (age 35 to 65, various races and backgrounds, all college educated) the topic moved to things we enjoyed online. I asked the group what they thought about the gamer gate, radical feminism, men's right movement, social justice debate and no one even knew what I was talking about. My impression, which was stated by a poster on this forum, is that the these topics are primarily online or for people who are on a college campus. It also seems part of the interest in these topics is generational. Still they keep coming up in this forum where many of the regular posters are well out of college.
My interest in these topics is limited but I understand why many people find these arguments engrossing. My question is where does atheism fit in, or does it?
Quote from: GSOgymrat on January 21, 2016, 08:55:01 AM
I've been puzzled by the interest in the "feminism/SJW/MRA/trigger warning/gamer gate" cluster of topics by atheists. I'm not referring to the left versus right culture war, which is everywhere, but the ongoing argument of this subset of social issues. I am well aware that atheists are a diverse group but of the sites I frequent it's the atheist websites and videos where these discussions repeatedly surface.
I have never heard anyone actually discuss these topics offline. At a gathering of about a dozen people (age 35 to 65, various races and backgrounds, all college educated) the topic moved to things we enjoyed online. I asked the group what they thought about the gamer gate, radical feminism, men's right movement, social justice debate and no one even knew what I was talking about. My impression, which was stated by a poster on this forum, is that the these topics are primarily online or for people who are on a college campus. It also seems part of the interest in these topics is generational. Still they keep coming up in this forum where many of the regular posters are well out of college.
My interest in these topics is limited but I understand why many people find these arguments engrossing. My question is where does atheism fit in, or does it?
I don't see it as an atheist issue and the issues don't exist anywhere but on the internet. To be frank, I had to look up "SJW/MRA" when I first saw it. But I'm an old man from Utah, so don't consider myself exactly mainstream. I do try to stay informed in a general sense, and the internet is the only place I have seen these topics posted.
Quote from: GSOgymrat on January 21, 2016, 08:55:01 AMI have never heard anyone actually discuss these topics offline.
It's uncommon, since the debate is typically waged on social media, but these topics do get hashed out irl. There was that college safe space meltdown earlier, for example.
QuoteMy interest in these topics is limited but I understand why many people find these arguments engrossing. My question is where does atheism fit in, or does it?
It doesn't have anything to do with atheism. It's a wholly political issue mostly between leftists with either a libertarian or authoritarian streak. It's obviously not everyone's cup of tea (I'd wager that few people watch Feminist Frequency or Sargon of Akkad for fun) but these are issues relating to people's notions of equality, social progress, and free speech, which of course, people consider very important and are very vocal about.
One of my problems (I have several) with posts on social issues (of which there are many) is broad, ill-defined labels, e.g. regressive left, feminists, men's rights activists, etc. Jannabear asked where are the social justice warriors and my answer is social justice warriors are whoever people who don't like social justice warriors say they are. These labels are reactionary and for me pointless. People who discuss these issues spend half their time arguing over definitions-- who is a feminist, who is a third wave feminist, who says she's a feminist but really isn't-- it's all so inefficient and unnecessary. I've all but given up discussing these topics, both here and on other forums, not because the issues are unimportant but because the way many people, not all, discuss the issues is too convoluted. I find sorting through the emotional buzzwords, over-generalizations, defensive reactions and the arguing for the sake of arguing too exhausting. This style of discourse seems to be the nature of online discussions on social issues.
Obviously a lot of people love these topics and enjoy arguing. I don't enjoy arguing, I own that and acknowledge I don't have to read threads on social issues, which I often skip. I just wish people would focus on specific issues and identify specific people or policy when discussing these topics. I am more likely to engage in conversation if someone posts "Trigger warnings on college campuses are designed to protect students but are actually harmful because they 1) encourage avoidance of trauma, 2) chill free speech and expression of ideas and 3) are arbitrary and impossible to enforce," rather than "Millennial social justice warriors are using their liberal PC bullshit to turn American students into enfantilized cry babies, and anyone who says otherwise is a pussy." I want less "Conservatards say X and they're idiots" and more "Ted Cruz says X and here are specific reasons why this is a bad idea."
In a time when having the wrong opinion can lead to you losing your livelihood, its really no wonder to me that topics like this aren't discussed IRL. Online, if someone loudly accuses you of, for example, being a misogynist its like "yeah, whatever". If someone loudly accuses you of being a misogynist at the water cooler in the office you've got a real problem.
Quote from: Nonsensei on April 03, 2016, 09:01:03 PM
In a time when having the wrong opinion can lead to you losing your livelihood, its really no wonder to me that topics like this aren't discussed IRL. Online, if someone loudly accuses you of, for example, being a misogynist its like "yeah, whatever". If someone loudly accuses you of being a misogynist at the water cooler in the office you've got a real problem.
Unfortunately it is becoming more common that what you say online can also affect your employment IRL.
I am not even sure if it's a huge "college campus" issue either... the people I can think of who would be "SJW" or whatever are all considered nutty and more "interesting" than serious.
GSOgymrat wrote:QuoteMy question is where does atheism fit in, or does it?
Atheism fits in perfectly.
Cultural Marxism which is the process of destroying western culture, among those the religions, Christianity in particular, who is better to attack religions that an atheist? (except Islam, of course which is used to further destabilize society). Note that no one is allowed to criticize Islam. It is still useful.
All these shenanigans at campuses are part of the process.
The young impressionable minds are being used to destabilize, destroy western culture from within.
Very likely by the leftist educators.
Marx's ideology to unite the masses (economic) failed.
This is the new approach, (critical theory) but to the same goal. A work in progress.
Many aren't even aware that they are doing it - helping to destroy the western culture.
Covert subversion.
Cultural Marxism for Dummies (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FY88YisC9YI)
Recognizing a Cultural Marxist (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Jlk1frpWrI)
QuoteThe young impressionable minds are being used to destabilize, destroy western culture from within.
Very likely by the leftist educators.
(http://i.imgur.com/udI7SNZ.png)
Quote from: Shiranu on April 04, 2016, 12:58:51 AM
Denying Cultural Marxism (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QudsWFi0NuQ)
Quote from: pr126 on April 04, 2016, 01:03:30 AM
Denying Cultural Marxism (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QudsWFi0NuQ)
(http://cdn.meme.am/instances/53767466.jpg)
How predictable.
Quote from: pr126 on April 04, 2016, 01:16:43 AM
How predictable.
(https://defendingcontending.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/pot-and-kettle.jpg)
I see.
You are "debating".
Quote from: pr126 on April 04, 2016, 01:37:06 AM
I see.
You are "debating".
(http://i2.wp.com/www.clutchmagonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/PresObama.png?resize=523%2C277)
Just to add to the debate.
(http://thefederalistpapers.integratedmarket.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/stalin.jpg)
Quote from: pr126 on April 04, 2016, 02:02:19 AM
Just to add to the debate.
(http://thefederalistpapers.integratedmarket.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/stalin.jpg)
While the message is inaccurate, I still give you props for proper use of the medium.
To paraphrase Stalin ... it doesn't matter who votes, it matters who doctors the media during the election ;-)
One can argue against Critical Theory ... it being a Continental philosophy, not an Anglo-American one (and hence not uber-mesnch). But can one argue with criticism in general? Pr126 seems too transparently tribal. And typical of someone my age or older ... to drag out the Marxists boogieman. Marxism is so strong in Cuba and Venezuela ... we better surrender!
If we did still have Stalin in power ... that would be serious. Is Putin Stalin? But is Trump Mussolini? Hyperbole ... Putin at most is guilty of not doing what the CIA wants and maybe being as corrupt as most Western leaders. Lately, the people most likely to kill 100 thousand or more, is NATO. And NATO is following Third Reich foreign policy (given that Germany is a member, how can they not?) ... perpetual preventative war ... we don't want those awful Poles to invade Germany, now do we? And NATO is ass deep into the police state now ... just like Germany/Soviet Union. But, but we are the good totalitarians, are we not?
Well, this went downhill quickly. Enjoy your bickering. I'm out.
Atheism certainly fits in by opening up the field. Much of religion is recognizing the importance of tradition, and all of these topics reject traditional norms. I think the reason you don't hear them discussed much in real life is because they can easily become uncomfortable and unproductive arguments so people avoid them, much like you avoid them online. Another reason is because many advocates of these issues actively attempt to prevent the expression of any opposing views, from blocking people on campus to legislation.