Multiple Fucking Sources (https://www.google.com/search?q=trans+woman+stoned+in+Germany&client=ms-android-att-us&prmd=nvi&source=lnms&tbm=nws&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjK65P937HKAhUS0mMKHTWoDo0Q_AUIBygB)
I remember a while ago expressing concern for the safety of LGBT people and women in light of the refugee crises. I agreed that we should help the refugees, but measures needed to be taken to ensure the safety of LGBT people and women because if the cultural differences. I can't say I'm sure what measures need to be taken, but something needed to be done.
I was assured, however, that there was no need to worry. They would follow the law. I was accused of being fearful. Well guess what? Reality doesn't work that way.
Before you accuse me of bigotry, I fully realize that the majority of refugees aren't violent or dangerous. If I believed that I wouldn't be for helping them at all. That being said, something needed to be done to protect the vulnerable, and nothing was. As a result we have this and the tragedy in Cologne.
Edit: thankfully she lived.
erm, that is not exactly stoning.
but there is a silver lining here. all the bad eggs can be weeded out. provided german act forcefully.
those refugees who cant control themselves can be handed over to the PIGDA protesters, when they are being violent. that will shut them right up. and others will learn from this.
Quote from: CloneKai on January 17, 2016, 04:58:51 PM
erm, that is not exactly stoning.
but there is a silver lining here. all the bad eggs can be weeded out. provided german act forcefully.
those refugees who cant control themselves can be handed over to the PIGDA protesters, when they are being violent. that will shut them right up. and others will learn from this.
Maybe not exactly, but still, I was assured that this wouldn't be an issue. I expect worse things come pride time.
Sent from Hell
Rather than alienating the refugee population that on the whole hates these type of people ( not accusing you of this, just that is what has been the case), more effort needs to go into working with these communities to bring these people to justice.
The refugees have complained about the bad seeds in their community making it unsafe in the camps to leave anything unattended or that they can be mugged without any reparations... so that leaves an opportunity to kill two birds with one stone and show the majority of law abiding refugees that they are respected and wanted.
But more than likely this will just escalate into more violence like setting fires in camps again.
This is why I really, really don't want my bf returning to germany, once he finishes with university in scotland. Germany's a bomb societal and political bomb waiting to explode.
Quote from: Shiranu on January 17, 2016, 05:34:34 PM
Rather than alienating the refugee population that on the whole hates these type of people ( not accusing you of this, just that is what has been the case), more effort needs to go into working with these communities to bring these people to justice.
The refugees have complained about the bad seeds in their community making it unsafe in the camps to leave anything unattended or that they can be mugged without any reparations... so that leaves an opportunity to kill two birds with one stone and show the majority of law abiding refugees that they are respected and wanted.
But more than likely this will just escalate into more violence like setting fires in camps again.
It's a case of rooting out the bad seeds, but instead what's happening is that the European left is avoiding any criticism of the ONE of the causes (fucked cultural and religious values) to appear tolerant and loving. The bad seeds that do get caught don't get deported, nor do they receive any significant prison time. Nothing is being done by the governments to send the message that conduct like that is severely fucked up. Nothing is being done to challenge their cultural notions of homophobia and sexism. Any criticism of their religion or culture is seen as xenophobia.
The left is being soft, so the right is stepping in because we backed down.
Sent from Hell
Quote from: The Skeletal Atheist on January 17, 2016, 05:48:48 PM
It's a case of rooting out the bad seeds, but instead what's happening is that the European left is avoiding any criticism of the ONE of the causes (fucked cultural and religious values) to appear tolerant and loving. The bad seeds that do get caught don't get deported, nor do they receive any significant prison time. Nothing is being done by the governments to send the message that conduct like that is severely fucked up. Nothing is being done to challenge their cultural notions of homophobia and sexism. Any criticism of their religion or culture is seen as xenophobia.
The left is being soft, so the right is stepping in because we backed down.
There's a lot of truth in that.
Apparently the German far right is uncrossing its legs and starting to stretch....
Quote from: The Skeletal Atheist on January 17, 2016, 05:48:48 PM
It's a case of rooting out the bad seeds, but instead what's happening is that the European left is avoiding any criticism of the ONE of the causes (fucked cultural and religious values) to appear tolerant and loving. The bad seeds that do get caught don't get deported, nor do they receive any significant prison time. Nothing is being done by the governments to send the message that conduct like that is severely fucked up. Nothing is being done to challenge their cultural notions of homophobia and sexism. Any criticism of their religion or culture is seen as xenophobia.
The left is being soft, so the right is stepping in because we backed down.
Sent from Hell
I always wonder who is more dangerous, the far Left or the far Right. I like to speculate what would have happened if Churchill and Roosevelt had not decided to help Stalin against Hitler, and let the two monsters fight it out, what would have been the outcome?!? But that would be for another thread... :-)
Quote from: josephpalazzo on January 18, 2016, 09:03:12 AM
I always wonder who is more dangerous, the far Left or the far Right. I like to speculate what would have happened if Churchill and Roosevelt had not decided to help Stalin against Hitler, and let the two monsters fight it out, what would have been the outcome?!? But that would be for another thread... :-)
Alternate historical endings would be found under the fantasy column ;-) Without Stalin (who got aid from the US and Britain) Germany would have won. Similarly China vs Japan. The Anglophone world is constantly taking credit for what it didn't do.
Ha, but look what came out of the British Empire - the US, Canada, Australia, New-Zealand, all democracies, rule of law, constitutional rights, secular governments, the very essence of Western civilization. We owe a lot to England, in spite of the Beatles and the Rolling Stones...:lol:
QuoteHa, but look what came out of the British Empire - the US, Canada, Australia, New-Zealand, all democracies, rule of law, constitutional rights, secular governments...
I think Britain's failure to success rate isn't as porcelain as you like to think...
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/b3/54/de/b354de8111712f28b7f133d1f1589b8e.jpg)
"We" have alot more to blame them for than thanks.
Quote from: josephpalazzo on January 18, 2016, 10:11:45 AM
Ha, but look what came out of the British Empire - the US, Canada, Australia, New-Zealand, all democracies, rule of law, constitutional rights, secular governments, the very essence of Western civilization. We owe a lot to England, in spite of the Beatles and the Rolling Stones...:lol:
Chauvinism-R-Us? The Five Eyes are cut from the same cloth, particularly after the BoE takeover of the US thru the FR in 1913-33. But I will root for the home team anyway ... just don't ask me to go all hooligan on the opposing teams.
Shiranu - just ask Bill Clinton and Dick Cheney ...
Depends on what the meaning of "we" is. - Bill
So! - Dick
You wanna know something really idiotic... I clicked this article expecting something funny...
Misinterpreted the meaning of 'stoned' in this context...
Quote from: Baruch on January 18, 2016, 05:27:36 PM
Chauvinism-R-Us?
Were I a chauvinist, I would be bragging about Mussolini...
Nice title, TSA. /sarc. You keep trying to create a big fuss about LGBTQA related to refugee crisis in Europe, as if it is something of a special situation, however it is not. Not even close. So let's cut the crap, shall we? I am sick of distorted bullshit vision Europeans and Americans have of their own culture, burrying their head into sand to ignore their own deep shit and act as if everything is a result of some made up migrant problem. You are not living in a first world country. It can get as fucked up as anywhere any moment. Besides, first world countries have the very same problems in their own demographic. (Jannabear, please do not read these articles.)
These are the list of the 21 transwoman killed in the USA just in 2015. Beaten to death, stabbed to death, shot...etc.
http://www.advocate.com/transgender/2015/07/27/these-are-trans-women-killed-so-far-us-2015
Transgender homicide rate hits historic high in US, says new report
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/nov/13/transgender-homicide-victims-us-has-hit-historic-high
How bad is the epidemic of violence against transgender women? It's hard to know.
http://www.vox.com/2015/10/20/9574239/transgender-murders-epidemic
They do NOT even know the real number of transgender deaths.
Quote from: josephpalazzo on January 19, 2016, 06:08:13 AM
Were I a chauvinist, I would be bragging about Mussolini...
Didn't he hang out with Squirrel (Goering)? ;-)
Quote from: Baruch on January 19, 2016, 07:00:40 AM
Didn't he hang out with Squirrel (Goering)? ;-)
The history books show that it was Hitler emulating Mussolini, not the other way around... at least in the early stages of fascism. As to Goering, he will famously go down in history for saying: "whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. " So, truth can come out even from a squirrel's mouth.
Quote from: drunkenshoe on January 19, 2016, 06:50:50 AM
Nice title, TSA. /sarc. You keep trying to create a big fuss about LGBTQA related to refugee crisis in Europe, as if it is something of a special situation, however it is not. Not even close. So let's cut the crap, shall we? I am sick of distorted bullshit vision Europeans and Americans have of their own culture, burrying their head into sand to ignore their own deep shit and act as if everything is a result of some made up migrant problem. You are not living in a first world country. It can get as fucked up as anywhere any moment. Besides, first world countries have the very same problems in their own demographic. (Jannabear, please do not read these articles.)
These are the list of the 21 transwoman killed in the USA just in 2015. Beaten to death, stabbed to death, shot...etc.
http://www.advocate.com/transgender/2015/07/27/these-are-trans-women-killed-so-far-us-2015
Transgender homicide rate hits historic high in US, says new report
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/nov/13/transgender-homicide-victims-us-has-hit-historic-high
How bad is the epidemic of violence against transgender women? It's hard to know.
http://www.vox.com/2015/10/20/9574239/transgender-murders-epidemic
They do NOT even know the real number of transgender deaths.
I was waiting for you to come in and turn it into something about western culture.
Yes, there is violence against LGBT people and women done by western people, a shit ton of it in fact. Too much. I never denied that. Shit is still fucked and we still have a lot to fight for.
The difference is that at least with a western audience from a western culture the left is actively disseminating information and trying to dissuade homophobia, transphobia, and sexism. The same is not being done in regards to the migrant populations. Are we suppose to think the same message works for someone of a different culture? They are being allowed to remain in ignorance because we don't want to offend by insisting that SOME (not all, some), of their cultural values are fucked up.
Edit: did I ever try to say western culture was spotless in regards to anything? I know better than to polish that turd.
Quote from: The Skeletal Atheist on January 19, 2016, 10:25:05 AM
I was waiting for you to come in and turn it into something about western culture.
Yes, there is violence against LGBT people and women done by western people, a shit ton of it in fact. Too much. I never denied that. Shit is still fucked and we still have a lot to fight for.
The difference is that at least with a western audience from a western culture the left is actively disseminating information and trying to dissuade homophobia, transphobia, and sexism. The same is not being done in regards to the migrant populations. Are we suppose to think the same message works for someone of a different culture? They are being allowed to remain in ignorance because we don't want to offend by insisting that SOME (not all, some), of their cultural values are fucked up.
Sent from Hell
Turn this into something about western culture? Ffs, it's already about the Western culture and it is blood thirsty hypocrisy. And you demonsrtrated how it works in a tiny level beautifully. You posted a thread titled 'Trans woman stoned in Germany' on purpose and you didn't expect a reaction? It's not just a lie, it is about creating hype and heat, so isn't this what you wanted? An angry response, whatever it is going to be?
If you wanted a conversation on the subject, what didn't you just make a 10 mins web search and came up with something instead of acting like a Fox news jackass? You have been posting the same question fo rmoths, now "what are they doing about LGBT people in Europe?" I don't think one second that you give a shit about discussing the subject or what's really happening.
There is an unbelivable media hype going around to create fear and escalate it to a point of break as much as possible and everyone is licking the same shit. I don't give a damn about their islamic values or others' western ones. There is NOT a crime wave of planned sexual assault by one minority going on in Europe, esp. in Germany, something that didn't exist before because of a 35 000 Syrians have been taken since 2011. Whatever it is, it is the shit that already existed before in a 80 million country. 31 men got caught in Cologne and 18 of them are migrants. A street party of thousands, everyone is boozed up and this is a normal result. This happens all the time, but now suddenly every sexual assault is about refugees.
EVERYBODY is trying to use this hyped up, made up crisis for some sort of profit and benefit and just
ONE big riot exactly what is wanted. Can you imagine the result? How stupid you need to be not to be able to see that? People are going to die, because of this hype that look so entertaining. While there isn't nearly enough reason for anything to happen, people are going to die. Innocent people.
Every migrant population is responsible from obeying the same set of laws, rules of prosecution and punishment if a crime is commited. If they commit a crime, they'll be prosecuted.
If you are asking why aren't they actively imposing a specific assimilation program -a very few do- then you actually have no idea what has been going on since Europe started taking migrants and refugees far back when.
Now, you can have your thread back, bitch in horror without 'turning it into something about Western culture'. You are very good creating conversation on important issues.
Quote from: drunkenshoe on January 19, 2016, 11:42:42 AM
Turn this into something about western culture? Ffs, it's already about the Western culture and it is blood thirsty hypocrisy. And you demonsrtrated how it works in a tiny level beautifully. You posted a thread titled 'Trans woman stoned in Germany' on purpose and you didn't expect a reaction? It's not just a lie, it is about creating hype and heat, so isn't this what you wanted? An angry response, whatever it is going to be?
Cite me where I said I didn't expect a reaction. Where's my lie? I outright said I expected you to come in. Every time there's some criticism of a nonwestern culture you like to come in and bring up the west. We know the west is terrible, believe me, we fucking know.
Oh, sorry I didn't title it in a Drunkenshoe approved manner. What should I have titled it? "Men Throw Rocks at Trans Woman in Germany"? "Trans Woman Has a Little Scuff With Some Nice Immigrant Boys"? "Trans Woman Has a Rather Bad Day"? "Trans Woman a Little Sad?"
QuoteIf you wanted a conversation on the subject, what didn't you just make a 10 mins web search and came up with something instead of acting like a Fox news jackass? You have been posting the same question fo rmoths, now "what are they doing about LGBT people in Europe?" I don't think one second that you give a shit about discussing the subject or what's really happening.
Last time I posed the question was fucking months ago, so don't act like I've been harping on this point month after month. Discussing the subject or what's really happening? When ever I bring it up no one does that. I'm either accused of being fearful or half heartily assured that since they have to follow the same rules we have nothing to worry about.
Quote
There is an unbelivable media hype going around to create fear and escalate it to a point of break as much as possible and everyone is licking the same shit. I don't give a damn about their islamic values or others' western ones. There is NOT a crime wave of planned sexual assault by one minority going on in Europe, esp. in Germany, something that didn't exist before because of a 35 000 Syrians have been taken since 2011. Whatever it is, it is the shit that already existed before in a 80 million country. 31 men got caught in Cologne and 18 of them are migrants. A street party of thousands, everyone is boozed up and this is a normal result. This happens all the time, but now suddenly every sexual assault is about refugees.
18 out of 31 caught doesn't seem like a rather high percentage to you? It's a minority group, but of the 31 caught more than half are migrants and that doesn't seem high to you? That combined with the eyewitness reports of it mainly being migrants?
Did I say it was planned? Some idiot pundits may have, but I never did. As you said, it's a huge celebration - unfortunately shit's bound to happen. Still, 18 out of 31? If that reflects the actual percentage at all then there's some sort of problem. Yes, you could reasonably argue that the police were racists and targeted migrant offenders more than native offenders, but at some point that argument falls flat. My point is simply that they come from a culture that sees women and LGBT people very differently than the culture they're coming into. There's going to be a clash in that regard.
Quote
EVERYBODY is trying to use this hyped up, made up crisis for some sort of profit and benefit and just ONE big riot exactly what is wanted. Can you imagine the result? How stupid you need to be not to be able to see that? People are going to die, because of this hype that look so entertaining. While there isn't nearly enough reason for anything to happen, people are going to die. Innocent people.
For my part I have noted that most refugees and migrants are law abiding and peaceful. I do not agree with those saying that ALL migrants or refugees should be deported or are responsible for the actions of a few. In any clash of cultures people are going to die, that's a sad fact of this stupid thing we call humanity. For my part, and for admittedly selfish reasons, I want to make sure something is being done to protect a segment of the population that has until very recently been (and, quite honestly, is still somewhat) subject to systemic oppression isn't subject to it again from another group. At the same time, I would never wish harm on refugees or migrants
QuoteEvery migrant population is responsible from obeying the same set of laws, rules of prosecution and punishment if a crime is commited. If they commit a crime, they'll be prosecuted.
Same laws? Yes. Same punishments? Yes (I've heard of cases where a defendant got off easier than most because of his immigrant status or what not, but could not find sources other than right wing websites and forums so I'm not going to regard that as factual until I see a solid sorce). Great, so we're doing something after the fact. After someone is victimized. It's worked so well so far. That'll fix it. :rolleyes:
Or, bear with me now, or just maybe we can try to PREVENT crime from actually happening. We can see a problem - homophobia, transphobia, and sexism in a newly arriving migrant population, that could lead to crime and address it. We could even address it without unfairly labeling all of the refugees as terrorists or radical Islamists or some shit like that. We can educate using messages with these migrant populations in mind, without being patronizing.
But shit like that requires thought, lets do nothing or just deport them all!/sarcasm
Quote
If you are asking why aren't they actively imposing a specific assimilation program -a very few do- then you actually have no idea what has been going on since Europe started taking migrants and refugees far back when.
Not a specific assimilation program, but I don't know, some sort of education initiative? Something? Anything? I'm also asking for information, if anything else. Maybe my Googlefu is rusty on this, maybe it isn't happening.
Also, please educate, O Knower All That is Going On, on what's going on. What's the correct opinion to have?
Quote
Now, you can have your thread back, bitch in horror without 'turning it into something about Western culture'. You are very good creating conversation on important issues.
Showing concern about a certain segment of the population potentially being victimized by another segment of the population = bitching in horror. Got ya.
I'm sure you'd come to the same conclusion if I were to talk about homophobic, transphobic, and sexist violence in western culture.
By the way, for those of you reading and wondering: The reason I'm mentioning homophobia, transphobia, and sexism in the same breath is because they all have the same root cause.
Quote from: The Skeletal Atheist on January 19, 2016, 12:58:26 PM
Cite me where I said I didn't expect a reaction. Where's my lie? I outright said I expected you to come in. Every time there's some criticism of a nonwestern culture you like to come in and bring up the west. We know the west is terrible, believe me, we fucking know.
Oh, sorry I didn't title it in a Drunkenshoe approved manner. What should I have titled it? "Men Throw Rocks at Trans Woman in Germany"? "Trans Woman Has a Little Scuff With Some Nice Immigrant Boys"? "Trans Woman Has a Rather Bad Day"? "Trans Woman a Little Sad?"
Last time I posed the question was fucking months ago, so don't act like I've been harping on this point month after month. Discussing the subject or what's really happening? When ever I bring it up no one does that. I'm either accused of being fearful or half heartily assured that since they have to follow the same rules we have nothing to worry about.
The point is your hyperbolic expression designed to elicit cheap outrage. I know you expected a reaction. That's the whole point.
And the teenage rant you used right above. Stoning is an official punishment in two big abrahamic religions. It doesn't just mean 'throwing rocks to someone'.
What the fuck is 'drunkenshoe approved manner'? I'm usually the one trying to put a rational perspective on the most violent, abhorrent piece of news here instead of doing a "oh my god oh my god what are we going to do" run.
Quote18 out of 31 caught doesn't seem like a rather high percentage to you? It's a minority group, but of the 31 caught more than half are migrants and that doesn't seem high to you?
No, it doesn't. Europe is not the US. Space is scarce and this is happening in a party street at night among a traffic of thousands of people. Have you ever been to a street party of the sort? I am sure you have. Every time, shit happens. Sometimes riots starts. On a given normal firday night in a European capital, the complaints of sexual assault is at least twice of that.
QuoteThat combined with the eyewitness reports of it mainly being migrants?
Really? Do you have any idea how many million non german, german born people live in Germany? Just turks are a couple of millions.
The exact expression given by the media as witness account is this bullshit:
"Men looked like North Africans and Arabs". Yeah. And this 'information' is pread by the introduction of Germany taking 1,1 million rafugees in main sources.
You want to study forensics. At least did. You know a bit about it. Could you please tell me, what does that mean? And don't forget that this is coming from a bunch of scared white people. What is the difference between an arab and a north african man -nonwhites. Yes, there are looking for a 1000+ men who look like Northern Africans and Arabs, who planned and commited a mass sexual assault crime.
Do you know ho wmany black people in Germany of 80 millions?
http://www.young-germany.de/topic/live/black-in-germany-what-to-expect
QuoteToday, according to a 2009 report from the European Commission against Racism and Intolerance, there are an estimated 200,000 to 300,000 black people living in Germany. In addition to its native population of Afro-Germans , some of whom trace their lineage back to 19th century immigrants from German-controlled colonies, Germany’s black population consists of people from people from Europe, Africa, and the Americas.
Germany has taken 35 000 Syrians refugees since 2011.
QuoteDid I say it was planned? Some idiot pundits may have, but I never did. As you said, it's a huge celebration - unfortunately shit's bound to happen. Still, 18 out of 31? If that reflects the actual percentage at all then there's some sort of problem. Yes, you could reasonably argue that the police were racists and targeted migrant offenders more than native offenders, but at some point that argument falls flat. My point is simply that they come from a culture that sees women and LGBT people very differently than the culture they're coming into. There's going to be a clash in that regard.
There is an uproar because these crimes are considered planned and organised. Against LGBTQA groups and women in general.
What you don't get is there is no argument here from '18 out of 31 is too much'. Because if you are looking from 1000+ men committing an organised crime -be it sexual an dviolent or just theft-and arresting 31 after 500 (sexual assault) complaints finding 18 migrants, either there is something wrong what is reported by the media or there is something wrong what is reported by the media .
Also Cologne is considered and defined as special situation; a special sort of event. According to the European media, there has been going a rape epidemic by muslim minorities and it is everywhere.
By this rate, there shouldn't be any women who is not raped by a muslim around 2018.
The clash will break out because of spreading fear for something not real.
There has been a campaign about sexual assaults in Sweden and Norway which proved to be completely false. Oslo police and also declared that the reports on the media (Brtish-American) were fake and while the rape crime is in the usual stats that the majoirty of the perpetrator were white Norwegians. They tried to explian that Sweden stats looked like there was a 300% jump, because they changed the crime filing system (they are opening a case for every sexual assault act, not as one crime; on how many times the crime took place. If a man raped a man 20 times there are 20 rape cases not one between them) Nobody listens it. Because people do not care about facts in a normal climate let alone a time like this.
QuoteFor my part I have noted that most refugees and migrants are law abiding and peaceful. I do not agree with those saying that ALL migrants or refugees should be deported or are responsible for the actions of a few. In any clash of cultures people are going to die, that's a sad fact of this stupid thing we call humanity. For my part, and for admittedly selfish reasons, I want to make sure something is being done to protect a segment of the population that has until very recently been (and, quite honestly, is still somewhat) subject to systemic oppression isn't subject to it again from another group. At the same time, I would never wish harm on refugees or migrants
You could have fooled me.
QuoteSame laws? Yes. Same punishments? Yes (I've heard of cases where a defendant got off easier than most because of his immigrant status or what not, but could not find sources other than right wing websites and forums so I'm not going to regard that as factual until I see a solid sorce). Great, so we're doing something after the fact. After someone is victimized. It's worked so well so far. That'll fix it. :rolleyes:
This is not true. Again the fucking media.
Take UK. The number of nonwhite porioners in UK is 10 times of the nonwhites in USA prisoners, TSA. Can you wrap your head around it? This has gone around the media for some time. We posted to here 2-3 times. A very big majority of refugees are nonwhite. They are no way getting away with anything.
QuoteOr, bear with me now, or just maybe we can try to PREVENT crime from actually happening. We can see a problem - homophobia, transphobia, and sexism in a newly arriving migrant population, that could lead to crime and address it. We could even address it without unfairly labeling all of the refugees as terrorists or radical Islamists or some shit like that. We can educate using messages with these migrant populations in mind, without being patronizing.
That's exactly why I got pissed off at you, the way ou posted the thread. That's why I get pissed off at the way most things posted about those issues. and you think that all my point is condemning Western culture. Yeah right. That's why I have been here for years. Just for that. I'm a masochist and bathit crazy one at that. I just fucking love it.
QuoteShowing concern about a certain segment of the population potentially being victimized by another segment of the population = bitching in horror. Got ya.
Obviously, that's something said to the style of reflection. Not to the issue.
I am going to think that, TSA? Me? Esp. a crime on transgender. Again, how long have we been in the same forum?
:arrow: I don't want you to have an opinion that I find 'correct' or even agree with me. I want you to
question a media 5 times over that has gotten out of hand long time ago and constantly producing disinformation, hype and blatant corruption, insted of applying a ready circular reasoning and a constant conifrmation bias with "hmm muslim, islamic values - confronted LGBTQA absolute violence.
I am serious about any possible riot or a point break coming soon, if they do not try to calm this hysteria which they highly likely won't even attempt to do. Because a possible display of violence and outrage -esp. with a death toll- WOULD make the politcians jobs very easy in many ways. They will be able to make one way calls and impose drastic measures. Not just social issues, ALSO economical and politcial ones. They will shut down any communication in assimilating these people and treat them like animals, give a licence to other groups to do so AND radicalise the group mpore and more. But of course they won't back down from taking any.
Do you remember the London Riots? How many years have passed? What was the reason? The muslim and refugee population was the same back than it is that new and has nothing to do with, it just happened because it started and escalated.
Do you remember Paris Riots? Getthos.
Do you know this page? https://muslimstatistics.wordpress.com/2015/03/19/sweden-77-6-percent-of-all-rapes-in-the-country-committed-by-muslim-males-making-up-2-percent-of-population/ Just take a peek and ask
facebook164 how realistic it is. This is now the common media on 'hundreds of thousands' of muslim refugees who havn't even been taken yet. I am serious. I am not being hyperbolic.
This is a fucking train going with 300 km/h. And it is going to crash somewhere. Highly likely somewhere like Paris or London again. Esp. Paris.
Quick post as I'm busy, but:
QuoteYou could have fooled me
I noted in the OPENING FUCKING POST that I knew that most migrants and refugees weren't fucking criminals.
Quote from: The Skeletal Atheist on January 19, 2016, 02:30:08 PM
Quick post as I'm busy, but:
I noted in the OPENING FUCKING POST that I knew that most migrants and refugees weren't fucking criminals.
You haven't even read my post, have you? Because I am talking about
something that has already happened, not you thinking about it. You wanted a heated reaction and you got it.
Quote from: drunkenshoe on January 19, 2016, 02:34:38 PM
You haven't even read my post, have you? Because I am talking about something that has already happened, not you thinking about it. You wanted a heated reaction and you got it.
Read the paragraph you quoted before you said that.
Oh look, someone who got pissed off to a reasonable set of opinions on being a fan of a certain show could be percieved completely different by many other people, liking against me just the heck of it without any real opinion on the subject as usual, because I am pissed off about a huge real life issue that would directly affect my life in many levels. Hey Hydra, how are the Bronies doing?
Quote from: The Skeletal Atheist on January 19, 2016, 02:48:54 PM
Read the paragraph you quoted before you said that.
Well, read the following then.
Quote from: The Skeletal Atheist on January 17, 2016, 04:20:51 PM
Multiple Fucking Sources (https://www.google.com/search?q=trans+woman+stoned+in+Germany&client=ms-android-att-us&prmd=nvi&source=lnms&tbm=nws&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjK65P937HKAhUS0mMKHTWoDo0Q_AUIBygB)
I remember a while ago expressing concern for the safety of LGBT people and women in light of the refugee crises. I agreed that we should help the refugees, but measures needed to be taken to ensure the safety of LGBT people and women because if the cultural differences.
Ensure the safety? It's not possible to ensure the safety of any segment of the population.
QuoteI was assured, however, that there was no need to worry. They would follow the law. I was accused of being fearful. Well guess what? Reality doesn't work that way.
I doubt anyone assured you that they would break no laws. It would be more surprising if something like this didn't happen. The best you can do is tell the refugees that assaulting anyone is against the law. I think we all knew that some of these people would be bringing in rape, acts of hate, or even acts of terrorism, but we were ok with them coming in anyways. If I'm told I can save a small number of lives by not helping thousands, I'm going to go ahead and help those thousands anyways.
Quote from: FaithIsFilth on January 19, 2016, 03:04:05 PM
Ensure the safety? It's not possible to ensure the safety of any segment of the population.
I perhaps worded that wrongly. Of course it's impossible to completely ensure the safety of anyone. What's really being done to mitigate the risks, though?
QuoteI doubt anyone assured you that they would break no laws. It would be more surprising if something like this didn't happen. The best you can do is tell the refugees that assaulting anyone is against the law. I think we all knew that some of these people would be bringing in rape, acts of hate, or even acts of terrorism, but we were ok with them coming in anyways. If I'm told I can save a small number of lives by not helping thousands, I'm going to go ahead and help those thousands anyways.
Never said that we shouldn't help them. I have actually agreed that they should be helped again and again. Nobody said they wouldn't break laws, but rather that having laws and punishments was enough in and of itself.
Quote from: drunkenshoe on January 19, 2016, 02:21:54 PM
The point is your hyperbolic expression designed to elicit cheap outrage. I know you expected a reaction. That's the whole point.
Oh yes, you got me there. I studied different phrases over and over again for hours to see which one would have people the most outraged. I even contacted CIA and Illuminati psychologists to see which title would cause the most vitriolic responses. That, or maybe I just came up with a quick title and went on to writing the body of my post.
QuoteAnd the teenage rant you used right above. Stoning is an official punishment in two big abrahamic religions. It doesn't just mean 'throwing rocks to someone'.
Throwing rocks at someone because "such people should be stoned" isn't an attempted stoning. Do you think they would have stopped if they weren't stopped? If they had bigger rocks and more time, it would have been a stoning.
[quote[What the fuck is 'drunkenshoe approved manner'? I'm usually the one trying to put a rational perspective on the most violent, abhorrent piece of news here instead of doing a "oh my god oh my god what are we going to do" run.[/quote]
You're the one who took issue with my title. Quite simply, what should I have titled it.
QuoteNo, it doesn't. Europe is not the US. Space is scarce and this is happening in a party street at night among a traffic of thousands of people. Have you ever been to a street party of the sort? I am sure you have. Every time, shit happens. Sometimes riots starts. On a given normal firday night in a European capital, the complaints of sexual assault is at least twice of that.
Yes, I've been to street parties and seen shit go down.
Really? Do you have any idea how many million non german, german born people live in Germany? Just turks are a couple of millions.
QuoteThe exact expression given by the media as witness account is this bullshit:
"Men looked like North Africans and Arabs". Yeah. And this 'information' is pread by the introduction of Germany taking 1,1 million rafugees in main sources.
You want to study forensics. At least did. You know a bit about it. Could you please tell me, what does that mean? And don't forget that this is coming from a bunch of scared white people. What is the difference between an arab and a north african man -nonwhites. Yes, there are looking for a 1000+ men who look like Northern Africans and Arabs, who planned and commited a mass sexual assault crime.
Do you know ho wmany black people in Germany of 80 millions?
http://www.young-germany.de/topic/live/black-in-germany-what-to-expect
Germany has taken 35 000 Syrians refugees since 2011.
Forensically speaking (though I'm kind of going loose here, my interest is forensic pathology, not criminology which would be more appropriate, so take what I'm saying with a grain of salt), I'd look at previous New Years Celebrations and crime rates. I tried looking up previous years, but right now search result is turning up for this years events. That being said, if there was an uptick in violence, perhaps one that alarmed residents enough to openly complain about it, I'd look at what might have caused it. To do that I would look at who the perpetrators were, the atmosphere, and any recent developments.
So we have assaults, that most assuredly happens every year, but enough of an increase to where the local media and populace was alarmed. The atmosphere, I would assume, would be like any other New Year's Party - drunks, fireworks, a good mix for some shit to go down. The perpetrators, as noted by multiple eyewitnesses (that's those "scared white people" you so easily dismissed, though a good number of eyewitnesses were nonwhite as well), seem to be mainly of North African and Arab descent.
So what happened between this year and the previous years? Did the nonwhites already situated in Cologne suddenly become more violent? Or was there another factor involved? Did bigotry cause them to sexually assault women and steal? Or was it maybe a new group of people, who aren't quite acclimated to the city? "It was a street party with lots of people, shit was just bound to happen" doesn't quite cut it.
QuoteThere is an uproar because these crimes are considered planned and organised. Against LGBTQA groups and women in general.
True for them. I don't see them as planned or organized, but rather as a result of moving people from one culture to another without really communicating to them what's expected. Once again, the problem lies with a minority of these people, but it's a problem we must address.
QuoteWhat you don't get is there is no argument here from '18 out of 31 is too much'. Because if you are looking from 1000+ men committing an organised crime -be it sexual an dviolent or just theft-and arresting 31 after 500 (sexual assault) complaints finding 18 migrants, either there is something wrong what is reported by the media or there is something wrong what is reported by the media .
I don't quite get what you're saying here. It's more of grammatical thing than anything. It might be sentence structure, maybe something was missing, but I'm not getting it.
Quote
Also Cologne is considered and defined as special situation; a special sort of event. According to the European media, there has been going a rape epidemic by muslim minorities and it is everywhere.
Really, without any sort of information for previous New Year's Celebrations, an outsider can't really say if it was special or not. That being said, when the locals are alarmed enough that the mayor has to introduce a "code of conduct" for young women so they don't get raped, I'd consider it significant in some light.
QuoteBy this rate, there shouldn't be any women who is not raped by a muslim around 2018.
The clash will break out because of spreading fear for something not real.
There has been a campaign about sexual assaults in Sweden and Norway which proved to be completely false. Oslo police and also declared that the reports on the media (Brtish-American) were fake and while the rape crime is in the usual stats that the majoirty of the perpetrator were white Norwegians. They tried to explian that Sweden stats looked like there was a 300% jump, because they changed the crime filing system (they are opening a case for every sexual assault act, not as one crime; on how many times the crime took place. If a man raped a man 20 times there are 20 rape cases not one between them) Nobody listens it. Because people do not care about facts in a normal climate let alone a time like this.
I'll give you that. Yes, the majority of rapes are by white Norwegians because white Norwegians are the majority of the population, no real surprise there. Yes, the media made it seem like only migrants were responsible for rape.
What you're ignoring is that migrants are statistically over represented when it comes to rape statistics, specifically "stranger rape". I'd argue that ONE of the causes for this anomaly is a culture that devalues women. Yeah, addressing that cause will not magically make rape go away, as there are a variety of causes, but one has to address ALL causes of an issue to actually solve it. Being afraid to say "it's fucked up that you consider it as a religious and cultural value that women are less than men" to avoid offending cultural and religious sensibilities isn't going to help anyone. Once again, where the left fails, the right steps in and fucks it up in its own spectacularly tragic way.
QuoteThis is not true. Again the fucking media.
Take UK. The number of nonwhite porioners in UK is 10 times of the nonwhites in USA prisoners, TSA. Can you wrap your head around it? This has gone around the media for some time. We posted to here 2-3 times. A very big majority of refugees are nonwhite. They are no way getting away with anything.
Read what I said: I agreed that there were the same laws and punishments for migrants. I also took time to dismiss the notion that immigrants are getting off easy, a claim I admittedly made erroneously earlier. Upon looking at the base sources I found that they all redirected to right wing news sites and forums, like some kind of echo chamber, so I discarded it.
QuoteThat's exactly why I got pissed off at you, the way ou posted the thread. That's why I get pissed off at the way most things posted about those issues. and you think that all my point is condemning Western culture.
So if immediately saying that Americans and Europeans have their heads stuck in the sand regarding their own culture, posting articles about transphobic violence in the US in some version of tu quoque and deflecting from what the topic of discussion is not condemning Western culture then what is it? What was your point on that first post then? Maybe this time explain it without being vitriolic every time someone disagrees.
QuoteYeah right. That's why I have been here for years. Just for that. I'm a masochist and bathit crazy one at that. I just fucking love it.
I don't think you're here solely to criticize western culture, but it does seem that a lot of the time when there a critique of nonwestern culture, specifically Middle Eastern, comes up, you have to come back with just how the west is SO much worse.
Quote:arrow: I don't want you to have an opinion that I find 'correct' or even agree with me. I want you to question a media 5 times over that has gotten out of hand long time ago and constantly producing disinformation, hype and blatant corruption, insted of applying a ready circular reasoning and a constant conifrmation bias with "hmm muslim, islamic values - confronted LGBTQA absolute violence.
Could have fooled me with how bitterly you respond to anyone who disagrees with your opinion.
I do question the media several times, that's why I threw away the claim about immigrant perpetrators getting lesser sentences. It was only right wing media, with no links to local sources to speak of.
You got my reasoning wrong, btw. I'm not some "hurr durr Muslims bad" idiot. What I was saying is that they come from a culture, from a region, where LGBT and women's rights are not respected, where the majority polled would say that homosexuality should be punishable by death. With that in mind I expressed concern for openly LGBT people and women. Are you trying to say that there isn't a potential for violence there, especially in regards to young men who are trying to come to grips with a new culture and older men who steadfastly hold on to their cultural and religious values?
QuoteI am serious about any possible riot or a point break coming soon, if they do not try to calm this hysteria which they highly likely won't even attempt to do. Because a possible display of violence and outrage -esp. with a death toll- WOULD make the politcians jobs very easy in many ways. They will be able to make one way calls and impose drastic measures. Not just social issues, ALSO economical and politcial ones. They will shut down any communication in assimilating these people and treat them like animals, give a licence to other groups to do so AND radicalise the group mpore and more. But of course they won't back down from taking any.
I agree. And yes, we need to stop the far right from spreading its fear and hatred, but this isn't some one front war. We can't fight this:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3395246/Hundreds-far-right-protesters-rampage-German-town-Leipzig-destroying-ethnic-restaurants-takeaways-latest-anti-migrant-demonstrations.html
Yet ignore or disregard the homophobia, transphobia, sexism, and religious intolerance expressed by SOME of the migrants.
We can't treat any group as some blameless entity to be free of the criticism. If we do, we become blind to the reasonable concerns of people worried about their safety.
Where the left and moderates fail, the far right finds a foothold to pull itself back up from the abyss. That's what's happening now.
QuoteDo you remember the London Riots? How many years have passed? What was the reason? The muslim and refugee population was the same back than it is that new and has nothing to do with, it just happened because it started and escalated.
Do you remember Paris Riots? Getthos.
Do you know this page? https://muslimstatistics.wordpress.com/2015/03/19/sweden-77-6-percent-of-all-rapes-in-the-country-committed-by-muslim-males-making-up-2-percent-of-population/ Just take a peek and ask facebook164 how realistic it is. This is now the common media on 'hundreds of thousands' of muslim refugees who havn't even been taken yet. I am serious. I am not being hyperbolic.
This is a fucking train going with 300 km/h. And it is going to crash somewhere. Highly likely somewhere like Paris or London again. Esp. Paris.
Once again, we can condemn and combat the fear mongers without being blind to the potential risk of a culture clash, and we can do it without being bigots if we simply realize that some cultural notions need to be challenged. If we simply expect two cultures to meld together and live in harmony without any sort of give and take then yes, these riots will happen and people will die. There has to be some give and take. I'm not seeing that.
Quote from: drunkenshoe on January 19, 2016, 02:49:45 PM
Oh look, someone who got pissed off to a reasonable set of opinions on being a fan of a certain show could be percieved completely different by many other people, liking against me just the heck of it without any real opinion on the subject as usual, because I am pissed off about a huge real life issue that would directly affect my life in many levels. Hey Hydra, how are the Bronies doing?
Nice swipe at someone who wasn't even part of the conversation.
"Once again, where the left fails, the right steps in and fucks it up in its own spectacularly tragic way." - Brilliant!
You know why I am so pissed off about all this and sound so annoying to everyone in the forum about everything related to these subjects, because people discuss/talk/act like these things are the results of something that happened to Europeans like a fucking accident.
The refugee crisis has been turned into 'a crisis of a planned massive sexual assault wave' by the deliberate campaigns of media. As if the danger and the problem is this. Migrants sexually assaulting woman in a street party, LGBTQA groups being targeted WHILE these crimes already is a problem in the European society with or without migrants.
And it's not the crime, of course it exists. It exist everywhere. But the whole picture is painted to this fucking shit.
And nobody is critcising-questioning this deadly bullshit and a deadly campaign going out there.
And me being an ass doesn't change a fucking thing about it. This is not something you can be politically correct and talk about it, so your forum buddies wouldn't get upset. Exactly like the example of another topic we had. The mercenary status of US -and allies- politics, interventions and invasions anywhere around the world which is the REASON of this crisis.
Everybody is entitled to their opinions, however they are not entitled to their own facts.
Quote from: josephpalazzo on January 19, 2016, 10:03:23 AM
The history books show that it was Hitler emulating Mussolini, not the other way around... at least in the early stages of fascism. As to Goering, he will famously go down in history for saying: "whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. " So, truth can come out even from a squirrel's mouth.
I knew you would chime in, Fearless Leader ;-)
Quote from: Baruch on January 20, 2016, 07:32:17 AM
I knew you would chime in, Fearless Leader ;-)
Hey, I'm surprised no one invoked Godwin's law...
Quote from: josephpalazzo on January 20, 2016, 07:51:17 AM
Hey, I'm surprised no one invoked Godwin's law...
Gresham's Law applied to humanity ... the least educated, least intelligent, most foolish people ... will drive the more educated, more intelligent and less foolish people ... out of circulation.
The cartoon land Pottsylvania is outside the Nazi continuum ... kind of generic totalitarian. Though Fearless Leader was less like Hitler and more like Colonel Klink ;-)
Quote from: Baruch on January 20, 2016, 06:38:52 PM
Gresham's Law applied to humanity ... the least educated, least intelligent, most foolish people ... will drive the more educated, more intelligent and less foolish people ... out of circulation.
That seems to describe you to a tee...