Meaning in life will not come from the stars, nor from superstition, meaning in life will not come by chance, but by choice.
If you want a meaning in life, if you want some form of feeling any fucking self worth, you go for it yourself, no one is going to hand it to you, it's not going to appear out of nowhere, you decide your purpose.
And your purpose should always be malleable, no one should go through life with one mindset, unless they look at their mindset skeptically and find it to be valuable.
I remember being suicidal, I've been suicidal multiple times before, and what finally got me out of that shit was realizing this.
You define your meaning, not some cunt, not something bigger then you, you define your meaning.
Now that's not to say you can't or shouldn't be influenced by others, but it is to say that the reasons you switch to a different mindset or meaning shouldn't be because of social pressure, or guilt, or any of that bullshit, you should switch because you found real reasons to switch, and you should always look for reasons to doubt yourself.
It's quite ironic that when you're most skeptical of yourself you may be the least self conscious, the reason for this is because if you're judging yourself from emotion, and not reason, then you will come to very strange and damaging conclusions, if you don't question yourself at all, then you shut down.
Now, emotion shouldn't be cut out completely as a factor, but it shouldn't be the primary factor.
And the notion that morality should derive from emotion is idiotic.
Empathy isn't just an emotional response to someone else going through something, it's an intellectual response, or atleast it should be.
I've changed alot as a person.
I went from when I was younger from being religious and racist, to non religious and non racist, but at this point I was angry at everyone, I realized I was raised in lies, and I was furious, I was shown the stupidity of humanity, and it disgusted me, it disgusted me to see the injustice, to see the horrible idiocy, to see the lack of empathy, the misguided emotions, the other people who were being lied to, I was revolted, to say the least.
Then I hit the breaking point, up until this point I was dealing with mental illness, and I was breaking apart.
The final straw for me was looking around me.
I was trying to hold on to a relationship with my parents that was horrible from the start, I needed to cut it out of my life.
I wasn't caring about anything, due to the emotional stress of being with them.
I wasn't happy on any level, other then a few moments of happiness.
I was at my breaking point.
Then I finally said. FUCK IT, in loud, angry words, but in my head.
I decided to cut the emotional ties with my parents, to try to heal emotionally, to take my mental health seriously, and to say fuck you to those who wanted to stop me from doing these things.
And here I am, a skeptic, an atheist, and a person who finally has a chance in life.
I have a chance to be the change I want to see in the world.
I have a chance to cut ties with family, and to say fuck you to all of them for treating me horribly, for abusing the social construct of a family to try to make me conform to their beliefs, and their horrible morality.
I have a chance to make friends.
I have a chance to enjoy life.
I suggest all of you do the same, I suggest you be a skeptic, It will lead you to amazing things.
My life may be temporary, and when I die I'm dead, but while I'm alive I'm going to make life better for me, and all of the other humans that exist, and will exist, I'm going to actually give a fuck about the one life I have, instead of wasting it out of fear.
I am an atheist.
If any of you are having trouble cutting ties with those who abused you, emotionally or physically, or are having trouble with mental illness, or are just looking for meaning in life, this is what I suggest.
Be a skeptic.
They used to call that a manifesto ;-)
"Meaning in life will not come from the stars, nor from superstition, meaning in life will not come by chance, but by choice." ... but make wise choices ;-)
I grok you, Jannabear. It takes a depth of self-awareness to really overcome the bad stimuli in our lives.
But blood is usually thicker than water. Is there really no one in your family who respects you? I know my family loves me, but the fanatical Christian ones (and there are a lot of them) are all sure that I'm bound for Hell, for disbelieving. If they preach to me, it's mostly out of genuine concern for my soul. I forgive them, because they are just struggling with the same lies that once brainwashed me. All of their lives, they've been saturated with the Bible. They only want to do right, but their upbringing tells them that the Bible is God's guidebook, for those who want to do right. So their hearts are usually in the right place, even if their words come off as ignorant, insensitive and outright whack-o.
Lucky for me, my sister is very accepting, and in fact, I think she's becoming more skeptical herself.
Quote from: Solomon Zorn on January 14, 2016, 09:41:13 AM
I grok you, Jannabear. It takes a depth of self-awareness to really overcome the bad stimuli in our lives.
But blood is usually thicker than water. Is there really no one in your family who respects you? I know my family loves me, but the fanatical Christian ones (and there are a lot of them) are all sure that I'm bound for Hell, for disbelieving. If they preach to me, it's mostly out of genuine concern for my soul. I forgive them, because they are just struggling with the same lies that once brainwashed me. All of their lives, they've been saturated with the Bible. They only want to do right, but their upbringing tells them that the Bible is God's guidebook, for those who want to do right. So their hearts are usually in the right place, even if their words come off as ignorant, insensitive and outright whack-o.
Lucky for me, my sister is very accepting, and in fact, I think she's becoming more skeptical herself.
We're grokking people now. Need to bone up on my Heinlein and get some protection. :biggrin:
Quote from: stromboli on January 14, 2016, 09:48:06 AM
We're grokking people now. Need to bone up on my Heinlein and get some protection. :biggrin:
It's been more than 20 years since I read
Stranger In a Strange Land. I meant "grok" more along the lines of the dictionary definition, than the full-on Heinlein definition, which is supposedly beyond understanding.
I try not to get angry, sad, or bored. Those things kill me. Being around my family gave me those feelings. Luckily, the whole lot of them disowned me. I was expected to play the public for all it was worth, or conform and be played, or join the military. Instead, I try to keep myself and others from being angry, sad, or bored. However, people are a stubborn lot. I can almost see why my ex-family hated them.
I have a family now. It consists of my GF and our daughter. They're not so hard to put up with, but they do try me.
Quote from: Jannabear on January 14, 2016, 02:06:29 AM
You define your meaning, not some cunt
Yeah, cunts. Who needs em?
I hate that word "cunt"
any how I think those of us here find our own meaning for our own lives. I know what the mean of my life is.
Jann..for someone who says that you're letting go of the anger you sound pretty pissed off. I do agree with a bit of your drivel, but not all of it.
If you want meaning skip all the I'm ok, you're ok and that there's where it's at nonsense. The world is full of asswipes and always has been and always will be.
The meaning in my life? Getting old because you either get old or you die. The trick is to find where the two meet.
Quote from: Baruch on January 14, 2016, 04:48:50 AM
They used to call that a manifesto ;-)
"Meaning in life will not come from the stars, nor from superstition, meaning in life will not come by chance, but by choice." ... but make wise choices ;-)
How does one predict ahead of time which choices will turn out to have been wise?
Quote from: stromboli on January 14, 2016, 09:48:06 AM
We're grokking people now. Need to bone up on my Heinlein and get some protection. :biggrin:
I thought grok was something disgusting that Klingons eat.
Quote from: gentle_dissident on January 14, 2016, 10:47:33 AM
I have a family now. It consists of my GF and our daughter. They're not so hard to put up with, but they do try me.
Quote from: YodaThere is no "try."
I've never had a family, but from what I hear of the families of others, I didn't miss much. I'm glad you managed to make a family of your own, but don't let 'em grind you down.
As far as the meaning of life goes...
(http://m.likesuccess.com/quotes/3/105865.png)
I tend to think of life as you dealing with shit happening around you, to the best of your capabilities, for those who you care about and yourself.
It leads me to seeing 'meaning' of life as not coming from a conviction or a belief about reality, but from the actions we take in it.
If that makes any sense.
Quote from: Unbeliever on January 14, 2016, 05:52:13 PM
How does one predict ahead of time which choices will turn out to have been wise?
The wise don't pretend to glass ball the future, and they don't count the cost. You are thinking which choices will be remunerative ... consult your stock broker ;-)
Quote from: Unbeliever on January 14, 2016, 05:55:51 PM
I thought grok was something disgusting that Klingons eat.
Humans don't like their food fresh, they prefer it putrefying ... eeuh! Klingons prefer gok (sp).
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on January 14, 2016, 06:39:03 PM
I tend to think of life as you dealing with shit happening around you, to the best of your capabilities, for those who you care about and yourself.
It leads me to seeing 'meaning' of life as not coming from a conviction or a belief about reality, but from the actions we take in it.
If that makes any sense.
Makes much sense. Don't whine, get off your yellow belly. If you want things to be better, then ... "Make is so, Number One" - Jean-Luc Picard
Life is meaningless. There is no inherent meaning. Joseph Campbell said something to the effect--The meaning of life is life. The only meaning your life will ever have is whatever meaning you give it. And you are free to give it whatever meaning you want.
Quote from: Mike Cl on January 14, 2016, 10:45:53 PM
Life is meaningless. There is no inherent meaning. Joseph Campbell said something to the effect--The meaning of life is life. The only meaning your life will ever have is whatever meaning you give it. And you are free to give it whatever meaning you want.
That short paragraph self contradicts ... but I agree with the final sentence. It depends on what "Life" means ... if it means "Life" was synonymous with G-d ... then there isn't much "there" there, since G-d plays no favorites. If it means the usual biological imperative, then it means securing offspring by securing females, and securing resources to help secure females, and provide from females and offspring.
"I said to myself, I should gather those friends of mine and have a good time at my place. I know each of their taste very well. First one doesn't drink what the second one does and the third one doesn't touch what the first one can't get enough of. I'm a good cook. I have spent good money and worked for hours, cooked delicious meals and set up a rich, tasteful table for four with the favourite drinks. I lighted candles. I even remembered and prepared one common dish they like to eat. They arrived. The 2o year old me, the 35 year old me and the 40 year old me. And me today. Four of us. Suddenly, I made the 2o year old me sit across the 35 year old me and I had my place across the 40 year old me. The 2o year old me found the 35 year old me conservative. The 40 year old me said that they are both idiots. I tried to calm them, they told me "stay out of it, you old fart!" and a big argument broke out. Neighbours pounded the walls up and down. The 2o year old me threw a glass to the 40 year old me. They trashed the house. Turned out to be a terrible night.
But then, I only have myself to blame. Why did I go and invited perfect strangers to my house?!"
Can Yücel
Quote from: Baruch on January 14, 2016, 11:04:44 PM
That short paragraph self contradicts ... but I agree with the final sentence. It depends on what "Life" means ... if it means "Life" was synonymous with G-d ... then there isn't much "there" there, since G-d plays no favorites. If it means the usual biological imperative, then it means securing offspring by securing females, and securing resources to help secure females, and provide from females and offspring.
I don't see the contradiction. Campbell simply meant that all living things yearn for life. Their purpose or meaning is to live. Period. Beyond that, each individual has to supply their own meaning. My meaning of life is not yours. And just because I find some meaning in life one day, does not mean that that meaning will be the same for the next day. My meaning of life is in a state of flux--much as the societal morality is in a state of flux. Everything changes.
Quote from: drunkenshoe on January 15, 2016, 08:17:30 AM
"I said to myself, I should gather those friends of mine and have a good time at my place. I know each of their taste very well. First one doesn't drink what the second one does and the third one doesn't touch what the first one can't get enough of. I'm a good cook. I have spent good money and worked for hours, cooked delicious meals and set up a rich, tasteful table for four with the favourite drinks. I lighted candles. I even remembered and prepared one common dish they like to eat. They arrived. The 2o year old me, the 35 year old me and the 40 year old me. And me today. Four of us. Suddenly, I made the 2o year old me sit across the 35 year old me and I had my place across the 40 year old me. The 2o year old me found the 35 year old me conservative. The 40 year old me said that they are both idiots. I tried to calm them, they told me "stay out of it, you old fart!" and a big argument broke out. Neighbours pounded the walls up and down. The 2o year old me threw a glass to the 40 year old me. They trashed the house. Turned out to be a terrible night.
But then, I only have myself to blame. Why did I go and invited perfect strangers to my house?!"
Can Yücel
I have sometimes reflected upon my life and am amazed at the number of people with different outlooks, thoughts and feelings all bound together by the past , labeled 'myself'.
Quote from: AllPurposeAtheist on January 14, 2016, 03:53:35 PM
Jann..for someone who says that you're letting go of the anger you sound pretty pissed off. I do agree with a bit of your drivel, but not all of it.
If you want meaning skip all the I'm ok, you're ok and that there's where it's at nonsense. The world is full of asswipes and always has been and always will be.
The meaning in my life? Getting old because you either get old or you die. The trick is to find where the two meet.
I wouldn't say that I've let go of my anger, if I said that in the post then I misworded it, I've just redirected it if anything, I directed it away from me and on to those who nearly led to me killing myself, those who were complete fucking cunts to me, I didn't pull the tumblr shit where I cry about how I'm a victim to them, I simply told them to go fuck themselves.
And I'll never say that everything's peaches and cream as it is now, I live in a house with 2 bigots and an intelligent person who defends the bigots, my only real friends and anyone who I respect don't live near me, my house has a fuck ton of mold, there are racoons that live in our ceiling and vents, it's fucking horrible living in this house.
Quote from: Mike Cl on January 15, 2016, 09:09:31 AM
I don't see the contradiction. Campbell simply meant that all living things yearn for life. Their purpose or meaning is to live. Period. Beyond that, each individual has to supply their own meaning. My meaning of life is not yours. And just because I find some meaning in life one day, does not mean that that meaning will be the same for the next day. My meaning of life is in a state of flux--much as the societal morality is in a state of flux. Everything changes.
Everything I agree with, except the contradiction of quoting Campbell. Campbell was profoundly religious, just anti-Christian. The guy was a professor of mythology ... not a secular preoccupation ;-)
Quote from: Jannabear on January 15, 2016, 09:50:03 AM
I wouldn't say that I've let go of my anger, if I said that in the post then I misworded it, I've just redirected it if anything, I directed it away from me and on to those who nearly led to me killing myself, those who were complete fucking cunts to me, I didn't pull the tumblr shit where I cry about how I'm a victim to them, I simply told them to go fuck themselves.
And I'll never say that everything's peaches and cream as it is now, I live in a house with 2 bigots and an intelligent person who defends the bigots, my only real friends and anyone who I respect don't live near me, my house has a fuck ton of mold, there are racoons that live in our ceiling and vents, it's fucking horrible living in this house.
Raccoons are cute, except for rabies ;-( I live with a cat by choice. I am not sure your intelligent person is all that intelligent (at least not in EQ) if he/she defends bigots. Hope you can find better digs. And have a good cry ... you are feminine after all, right (M-F trans)?
Quote from: Baruch on January 15, 2016, 01:02:26 PM
Everything I agree with, except the contradiction of quoting Campbell. Campbell was profoundly religious, just anti-Christian. The guy was a professor of mythology ... not a secular preoccupation ;-)
Okay..............I am familiar with what Campbell did. What does that have to do with the comment I talk about?
Quote from: Mike Cl on January 14, 2016, 10:45:53 PM
Life is meaningless. There is no inherent meaning. Joseph Campbell said something to the effect--The meaning of life is life. The only meaning your life will ever have is whatever meaning you give it. And you are free to give it whatever meaning you want.
Life is never having to know you're dead.
Quote from: Mike Cl on January 15, 2016, 03:22:29 PM
Okay..............I am familiar with what Campbell did. What does that have to do with the comment I talk about?
Like quoting Hitler at a bar mitzvah ;-) Your idea is good, but you justify it with ... meh. Personally I like Campbell, but then I am a theist.
I'm fond of some Confucian ideas of both bettering ourselves and of respect for our history and elders as a source for finding meaning in life.
Quote from: Shiranu on January 15, 2016, 09:08:42 PM
I'm fond of some Confucian ideas of both bettering ourselves and of respect for our history and elders as a source for finding meaning in life.
From Wiki ...
"The this-worldly concern of Confucianism rests on the belief that human beings are fundamentally good, and teachable, improvable, and perfectible through personal and communal endeavor especially self-cultivation and self-creation. Confucian thought focuses on the cultivation of virtue and maintenance of ethics. Some of the basic Confucian ethical concepts and practices include rén, yì, and lÇ, and zhì. Ren ("humaneness") is the essence of the human being which manifests as compassion, it is the virtue-form of Heaven.[15] Yi is the upholding of righteousness and the moral disposition to do good. Li is a system of ritual norms and propriety that determines how a person should properly act in everyday life according to the law of Heaven. Zhi is the ability to see what is right and fair, or the converse, in the behaviors exhibited by others. Confucianism holds one in contempt, either passively or actively, for failure to uphold the cardinal moral values of ren and yi."
Clever these Chinese. How could they advance so far without the Chicago School of Economics?
Life is-----there is no meaning.
Jannabear, from all I can tell you don't live in a society that orders you to live in any particular place. You have the option to get the hell out to go live elsewhere. I was invited to go live with my daughter and her kids and her former dip shit boyfriend, but I had no interest in living on a couch in a two bedroom dump with them and four kids so I took off for Columbus Ohio and a homeless shelter. It was the best decision for me in the past 30 years after all was said and done. Now I live with a wonderful woman in a beautiful home and get to take care of my 87 year old father and spend time with him in his last few years of life.. If you're surrounded by assholes get the fuck out and change your life. It ain't easy, but it beats putting up with shit 24/7
Your life might offer meaning to someone else...and in that, your life might have intrinsic value and meaning. All different ways to view it.
Life is what we do when we're alive. It is without objective purpose, though not without subjective value.
I've had some of my own thoughts on this matter very recently after stumbling upon some different philosophy and while I'm not sure this is the right place for it, this thread seems like it could be a decently adequate place to house my thoughts and it is something I feel I need to put down on paper (on iPhone screen I know but you get the point). And sorry for the bump if it's too late.
After becoming familiar with the idea of determinism and 'illusion' of free will etc etc I've done some high level introspection amidst the existential crisis and considered the meaning of my life. This is what I've come down to that allows me some internal peace and the ability to give my existence some meaning:
I believe that I am in control of my own life and my decisions are my own. For every choice I make, I believe I could have chosen differently. Therefore, I think I deserve the credit/pride that comes with the good decisions and the blame/regret that comes with the bad ones. Is this really true? Maybe, maybe not. Do we know for sure? I don't believe so. Will we ever? Perhaps, but I doubt it will be any time soon. This is what I've ended up, more or less, after my research and thought on the matter. The belief that I'm in control is what will, I hope, eventually allow me to keep going with the idea that my life ends up where I decide it does and that I have to make the most of the limited time I have here.
Again, sorry if this is the wrong place or time but I'm open to hearing feedback or comment on my philosophy. Just please be gentle, I'm a delicate snowflake.
There is no meaning in life. Only torment.
Quote from: MilitantAtheist on February 22, 2016, 02:21:08 PM
I've had some of my own thoughts on this matter very recently after stumbling upon some different philosophy and while I'm not sure this is the right place for it, this thread seems like it could be a decently adequate place to house my thoughts and it is something I feel I need to put down on paper (on iPhone screen I know but you get the point). And sorry for the bump if it's too late.
After becoming familiar with the idea of determinism and 'illusion' of free will etc etc I've done some high level introspection amidst the existential crisis and considered the meaning of my life. This is what I've come down to that allows me some internal peace and the ability to give my existence some meaning:
I believe that I am in control of my own life and my decisions are my own. For every choice I make, I believe I could have chosen differently. Therefore, I think I deserve the credit/pride that comes with the good decisions and the blame/regret that comes with the bad ones. Is this really true? Maybe, maybe not. Do we know for sure? I don't believe so. Will we ever? Perhaps, but I doubt it will be any time soon. This is what I've ended up, more or less, after my research and thought on the matter. The belief that I'm in control is what will, I hope, eventually allow me to keep going with the idea that my life ends up where I decide it does and that I have to make the most of the limited time I have here.
Again, sorry if this is the wrong place or time but I'm open to hearing feedback or comment on my philosophy. Just please be gentle, I'm a delicate snowflake.
Hey, sounds good. Much like mine. Except I don't think we are in control of very much. We do get buffeted about by happenstance. What we are in control of is the choice me make in each situation we are confronted with. We make a choice to do something--or not--and we make a choice as to whether or not that happenstance is good or not. We are in total control of what choices we make in how we handle each situation. We are only partly in control of the situations we find ourselves in.