I was picking up a repair job from one of the local chainsaw shops this morning, and I came in on the tail end of a conversation that I wish I had heard more of. One guy was at the cash register debating with another guy standing on my side of the counter. They both saw me walking up to the counter, but didn't want to stop their discussion. The guy on my side made room for me, but kept on talking, and finally, I think for my benefit, he said, "Well, maybe you're right, but I don't believe it," and he refused to look directly at his opponent, who was beaming a big smile from behind the cash register. My guy continued, "I don't believe God is going to send one guy to Hell for <committing some big sin>, but not another guy just because he believes something else. Might be true, but I'm not buying it." Rather than look at the other guy, he was looking at me the whole time. I assume it was my chance to jump in and agree with him.
But I didn't do anything, I just smiled a big simile to the guy on my side of the counter. Of course, I don't know if one was a Christian, and the other something else, but I didn't want to declare hooey on the whole conversation that I just disrupted, and maybe piss off both of them. One guy looked happy, the other looked nettled, but it may have been two Christians just debating some nuance of God's purpose. I almost asked, "You guys discussing mythology?" But I just wanted to get my lawn mower. I may have liked the discussion, but it could also have invited a shit storm. Christians don't mind heated arguments about the nature of God, but join in and dispute everything about all religious beliefs as nonsense, and the debate might get taken to a whole new level.
How many atheists here would have jumped into this thing with both feet? If anyone would have, what would your purpose have been? Do you picture any possible upsides in commenting with your two cents?
Not me. I would have done what you did.
I have been in similar situations and simply use the old: when I think of all the gods of mythology, the romans, greeks, norse, hindu. Where did all these gods come from? Most of us will say they were myths invented my man. I haven't seen the difference between those and the ones people follow today. I am not particularly religious.
Only one person ever followed up with, "so you don't believe in the god of the bible?" I look at the ceiling briefly and say, "nah, guess not".
I stop any further yapping by just letting them know I am not interested in getting into it. Not trying to convince them not to believe, just letting them no that other people still see it as bull-shit.
Quote from: SGOS on January 04, 2016, 01:48:33 PM
Rather than look at the other guy, he was looking at me the whole time. I assume it was my chance to jump in and agree with him.
You mean you had an opportunity to chime in with, "Jesus loves butt sex, praise be" and you passed?
Quote from: SGOS on January 04, 2016, 01:48:33 PMHow many atheists here would have jumped into this thing with both feet?
Now that you mention it, no, I wouldn't touch it with a 10 and a half foot pole.
Quote from: SGOS on January 04, 2016, 01:48:33 PMDo you picture any possible upsides in commenting with your two cents?
Well... maybe if... actually... perhaps... No.
I definitely mind my own business.
OK, I guess I'm OK not jumping in then. ...yet I was feeling some urge, but I couldn't see anything positive coming from it.
I wouldn't call it jumping in, if someone queries you. You can relay your opinions without pissing people off.
yeah I wouldn't touch that shit with a ten foot pole. Years ago I might have but now it's just not worth making enemies. Or frienemies.
The few times I've been in a relatively similar situation, I've responded with something along the lines of "Oh I don't believe in any of that stuff. But anyways..." And most of the times that worked in rounding the whole ordeal up. The few times they didn't let it go, and asked me a question or something, I always answered their question briefly and then always went on with "Anyways, I'm not here to change your mind, I just want..." And then after once or twice they stopped. I've only had it once that the guy didn't get the message and I was stuck for like a good ten minutes before I got away. Mind you, it was a friendly guy and I kind of did lead him on for such a conversation earlier that night.
I guess I wouldn't shy away completely, but make clear that it's of no interest to me and that I have no desire to talk about it. (Unless I'm really in the mood for that.) But then again, I get the distinct feeling the sentiment and atmosphere surrounding religion where I live is very distinct from where a lot of you guys live.
Debating with total strangers is dangerous. Debating religion is fucking batshit crazy.
Quote from: josephpalazzo on January 04, 2016, 03:52:34 PM
Debating with total strangers is dangerous. Debating religion is fucking batshit crazy.
And we're all here. :P
Quote from: SGOS on January 04, 2016, 02:34:47 PM
OK, I guess I'm OK not jumping in then. ...yet I was feeling some urge, but I couldn't see anything positive coming from it.
One has to separate Internet reality from ordinary reality. In Internet reality, nobody would come after you with a real chainsaw ;-(
Quote from: The Skeletal Atheist on January 04, 2016, 03:56:56 PM
And we're all here. :P
I'm not sure if we ever debate, we more or less denounce, and sometimes, disguising some of that as debate...
Quote from: josephpalazzo on January 04, 2016, 06:28:39 PM
I'm not sure if we ever debate, we more or less denounce, and sometimes, disguising some of that as debate...
What happened to the "what if" military debate? Crickets ...
When people have strong opinions, it is necessary to walk out of the room for awhile.
I wouldn't be too concerned about the chainsaw part because it takes a few pulls to get those puppies running, and you'd have time to clear out. I'd be more concerned if one of the persons in the argument was nicknamed "Leatherface".
I work in a large store at the tills, so get the best and worst of people coming though. I was confronted by a catholic, with an Irish accent, or at least I thought he was catholic, since he flat out asked me as I dealt with his items if I was catholic. I really wanted to say to him no i'm an atheist and don't believe in god, but thinking quickly that he might be a crazy ass religious nut, I just said no i'm not catholic, and rushed his goods though, just to avoid what might end up be saying something and costing me my job.
Unless specifically asked I don't budge in on other people's discussions.
Quote from: Sal1981 on January 05, 2016, 03:46:22 AM
Unless specifically asked I don't budge in on other people's discussions.
That is wise. Even when they turn their attention to me and use obvious body language to invite my participation, I am still not obligated to debate even if I want to. Choosing not to engage is totally appropriate, both intellectually and socially. That makes me feel better about just walking up to the counter and acknowledging the discussion with a knowing smile, but remaining silent about it. Just give me my lawn mower, and I'll be moving on.
Quote from: Sal1981 on January 05, 2016, 03:46:22 AM
Unless specifically asked I don't budge in on other people's discussions.
There were these two old white guys that used to stand outside the Coker science building at USC and tried to hand out tracts about how the Earth was only a few thousand years old and fire and damnation and the whole bit. They weren't aggressively confrontational exactly, but they did their damndest to make eye contact with as many people as possible and offer a tract to all passersby.
To me, that feels like being specifically asked. I just never could jump in and go toe to toe with them. I didn't feel like there were enough hours in the day. Let's be honest, two old dudes in suits insisting the planet is only 4500 years old probably have a long track record of denying evidence, and I doubt there's anything I could say that would make them think, "Holy shit, I never thought of that before,
NOW I'm an atheist!"
Strangely, the inverse is also true. I can't imagine many people taking a tract, reading it, and thinking, "You know, this makes so much more sense than all of that bullshit they're peddling in biology class. My eyes have been opened!"
I just don't feel like there are a lot of meaningful conversations to have when it comes to opposing religious views, especially in a few brief moments at a cash register or running down a sidewalk when you're late for class.
Quote from: TomFoolery on January 05, 2016, 08:09:34 AM
I can't imagine many people taking a tract, reading it, and thinking, "You know, this makes so much more sense than all of that bullshit they're peddling in biology class. My eyes have been opened!"
My God. That's funny.
Quote
I just don't feel like there are a lot of meaningful conversations to have when it comes to opposing religious views, especially in a few brief moments at a cash register or running down a sidewalk when you're late for class.
So true.
If you are not in a few rare spots on the planet, it is not safe to join in.
People do not have enlightenment switches, but their defense mechanism is violently in tact.