http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2015/12/open-letter-future-isil-recruit-151210091328044.html
QuoteDear fellow Muslim, who has a heart for "jihad", or struggle, in the name of God,
I actually doubt that you are a regular reader of these pages, but still wanted to give it a shot, and penned this letter to convey a few friendly thoughts.
You are probably young, devoted and angry. You are angry because our civilisation, the Muslim world, has been in a state of humiliation for at least two centuries. We have been colonised by European powers, occupied by foreign armies, or oppressed by our own tyrants.
...
With that concern in mind, you can do wonderful things, such as educating yourself to become a scholar, a scientist, a businessman, or an artist.
With your work, you can make great contributions to our ummah, which desperately needs an intellectual, scientific, economic or aesthetic revival. Do keep your concern for Islam, and I would suggest you make it a motive for self-development.
...
Meanwhile, beware of those who would call on you to abandon your individual path and commit yourself to their bizarre "jihad" - a violent, merciless, bloodthirsty campaign, such as the one carried out by the self-proclaimed Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL).
For one thing, in the history of our Islamic civilisation, jihad never amounted to indiscriminate slaughter as carried out by ISIL. The Koran did order the earliest Muslims to "Fight in the way of God against those who fight you," only to add: "But do not go beyond the limits." (2:190) Our prophet, peace be upon him, explained the limits: "Do not kill the very old, the infant, the child, or the woman."
Hence in our history, armed jihad always meant a war between armies, while non-combatants were never seen as targets. Moreover, fellow Muslims were never targets of jihad, no matter which sect they belonged to, or which political line they upheld.
...
That is why massacring innocent civilians today on the streets of Paris, Mosul or Raqqa is no jihad. It is nothing but cold-blooded murder, which is a grave sin.
If this is the case, you can ask, why so many Muslims have joined ISIL? What motivates them? Aren't they pious people who put their lives at risks for "the sake of Allah"?
Well, certainly, they say, and they even perhaps believe that. But if you look at them a bit more carefully, you will see that their motivation is less about venerating Islam or Allah, and more about venerating their very selves - their "nafs" or ego.
Because the whole struggle of ISIL - and similar groups - is focused on becoming the vanguards of our ummah, entitling themselves with a leadership position, while looking down upon, even condemning, all other Muslims.
According to their narrative, while all other believers are sleeping in their ignorance or treachery, they are the only ones who see the light and take the challenge. They are, as the ISIL people call themselves, "the Lions of the Caliphate" and "the Best of all Men."
Mind you: the real urge here is to achieve power, fame and glory, which is not necessarily a religious passion.
Some secular ideological groups of the recent past were driven by the exact same urge. A number of communists, as the self-declared vanguards of "the proletariat", also gave themselves the mission to lead a world-changing battle, often leading to much death and carnage.
On the one hand, they were very self-sacrificing; they left their comfortable homes to fight and die for "the revolution". One the other hand, they were indulging themselves in a most powerful aphrodisiac - the vanity of being one of the selected few, with the privilege to judge and punish the rest.
It is no accident that ISIL, in its sermons, videos or publications, never uses the disclaimer, "God knows the best". That would mean ambiguity, and ambiguity would not serve their purpose.
For ISIL claims to know what God knows, and wants to dictate it to the rest of us. If you think this is a way of honouring God, you would be wrong. It is a way of using God to claim power over men.
So, my dear fellow Muslim, please give a thought to all this before being tempted by the calls to become a "Lion of the Caliphate". If you feel passionate about doing something for God right away, follow His counsel in the Koran: "In the day of hunger, feed an orphan, or a poor man lying in the dust […] and enjoin compassion." (90:14-17)
Go and help the Syrian refugees, for example, or any other wronged people in your part of the world. You won't become another "Jihadi John" to shake the world with shock and horror.
But God will know you, and you will be winning His consent. And you will walk with Him, in modesty and dignity, for the rest of your life.
Just interesting to me to see ISIS from a Muslim's perspective (who coincidently still sees them as monsters) than just people who share the same perspective as myself. And I'll say it again... despite what certain people here want to believe... Islam is no more homogeneous than Christianity or atheism. You can claim "Well this guy is not a TRUE MUSLIMS because he believes Islam is ambiguous" but that is the exact same argument people like Donald Trump and ISIS themselves make.
We argue the "No True Scotsman Fallacy" when it fits our agenda... but when it is a group we disagree with suddenly they all think exactly the same and anyone who disagrees is not a "True Muslim".
Edit: Also... derp put it in wrong section.
It's a good read, though I'd take umbrage with the phrase "our civilization, the Muslim world". It implies that Muslims are a monolithic group - a Muslim civilization - while in reality, there are many different civilizations that hold a majority muslim population. I'd be like me referring to the West as Christian civilization. It's misleading and inaccurate.
I can't help but imagine that the reasons people join ISIS are primarily the same reason underprivileged kids join the military: the lack of any other viable choice in their lives. They might spew a lot of shit about Islam and how the West must be destroyed, just like young Americans talk about serving their country and protecting their loved ones, but at the bottom of it these people want food, shelter, and a sense of belonging.
This letter doesn't address any of that.
Quote from: Nonsensei on January 02, 2016, 09:32:01 AM
I can't help but imagine that the reasons people join ISIS are primarily the same reason underprivileged kids join the military: the lack of any other viable choice in their lives. They might spew a lot of shit about Islam and how the West must be destroyed, just like young Americans talk about serving their country and protecting their loved ones, but at the bottom of it these people want food, shelter, and a sense of belonging.
This letter doesn't address any of that.
That might go for the locals, but there are also western kids joining ISIS. Kids with big, supportive families.
Quote from: The Skeletal Atheist on January 02, 2016, 09:54:28 AM
That might go for the locals, but there are also western kids joining ISIS. Kids with big, supportive families.
Thats true, though in the grand scheme of things I think its rare despite the rabid media coverage every time it happens.
QuoteHence in our history, armed jihad always meant a war between armies, while non-combatants were never seen as targets.Quote
Let me quote just 2 Quran verses out of the many that call for indiscriminate [eternal] holy war against non Muslim, regardless who they are.
Quran 9:5
And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, let them [go] on their way. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.
Quran 9:29
Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.
Do you see any of the verses asking for exclusion from war on women, children or civilians?
QuoteMoreover, fellow Muslims were never targets of jihad, no matter which sect they belonged to, or which political line they upheld
Really?
Since 1948 some 11 Million Muslims have been killed by other Muslims. (https://themuslimissue.wordpress.com/2013/09/24/staggering-statistics-on-muslims-killing-muslims-2/)
Quote“Some 11,000,000 Muslims have been violently killed since 1948, of which 35,000, or 0.3 percent, died during the sixty years of fighting Israel, or just 1 out of every 315 Muslim fatalities. In contrast, over 90 percent of the 11 million who perished were killed by fellow Muslims.â€
QuoteFor one thing, in the history of our Islamic civilisation, jihad never amounted to indiscriminate slaughter as carried out by ISIL. The Koran did order the earliest Muslims to "Fight in the way of God against those who fight you," only to add: "But do not go beyond the limits." (2:190) Our prophet, peace be upon him, explained the limits: "Do not kill the very old, the infant, the child, or the woman."
If one explores the history of 14 centuries of jihad which resulted in 270 million victims, 80 million in India alone,.
But none of this is taught in any schools or broadcasted in any main stream media anywhere.
The Legacy of Jihad: Islamic Holy War & the Fate of Non-Muslims (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Legacy-Jihad-Islamic-Holy-Non-Muslims-ebook/dp/B0046RDPZU/ref=sr_1_2?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1451748149&sr=1-2&keywords=a+g+bostom#reader_B0046RDPZU)
QuoteThis book reveals how, for well over a millennium and across three continents - Asia, Africa, and Europe - non-Muslims who were vanquished by jihad wars became forced tributaries (called dhimmi in Arabic) in lieu of being slain. Under the dhimmi religious caste system, non-Muslims were subjected to legal and financial oppression, as well as social isolation. Extensive primary and secondary source materials, many translated here for the first time into English, are presented, making clear that jihad conquests were brutal, imperialist advances, which spurred waves of Muslims to expropriate a vast expanse of lands and subdue millions of indigenous peoples. Finally, the book examines how jihad war, as a permanent and uniquely Islamic institution, ultimately regulates the relations of Muslims with non-Muslims to this day. Scholars, educators, and interested lay readers will find this collection an invaluable resource.
This letter was not written to any would be jihadist.
It was written for you, and you buy it hook line and sinker.
In short, ME folks are just like Europeans and Americans?
Quote from: Baruch on January 03, 2016, 10:00:57 AM
In short, ME folks are just like Europeans and Americans?
Almost. (http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/)
Jihad Report 2015 Jihad Attacks: 2849
Countries: 52
Allah Akbars: 475
Dead Bodies:27435
Critically Injured: 26144
Quote from: pr126 on January 03, 2016, 10:26:54 AM
Almost. (http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/)
Jihad Report 2015
Jihad Attacks: 2849
Countries: 52
Allah Akbars: 475
Dead Bodies:27435
Critically Injured: 26144
I count all crime in USA vs say all crime among an equal number of ME folks. Not just the military part. And I don't care what their excuse is ... religion is no excuse, nor is politics.
Everyone hates the west, it's culture, it's people, yet they are flocking to those hated countries by the tens of millions. Risking their lives to get in.
Unstoppable. Why? Are they all crazy?
No, everyone is a bloodthirsty opportunist. If Hitler hadn't gotten the German people back to work, the Nazis would have moved to the US, and taken over from within ... oops ... exactly what happened after WW II.
The North hates the South and vice versa. The East hates the West and vice versa. Try to be an alien on the Moon ... and not be so partisan. You are like a soccer hooligan wanting to go down on the playing field after a losing game, and knee-cap the opposing team members ;-(
You are not making any sense.
Quote from: pr126 on January 03, 2016, 01:18:55 PM
Everyone hates the west, it's culture, it's people, yet they are flocking to those hated countries by the tens of millions. Risking their lives to get in.
Unstoppable. Why? Are they all crazy?
Proof please.
Quote from: Shiranu on January 03, 2016, 02:18:03 PM
Proof please.
They hate the West because of propaganda? People may well believe that there is free food/drink, free jobs, free housing, free health care in the West ... and are pissed they aren't getting it. The propaganda might not be real, but what people think ... is real.
This is part of the problem with "free lunch" civilization. Thanks to fiat money creation, there is no reason in most people's minds why everyone can't be middle class. It would only take 700 trillion dollars per year ;-) That is less than the quantity of derivatives in the Black Economy. Black Economy = no proper accounting required. We substitute money for substance. There isn't enough substance to provide a middle class lifestyle for our population, though China is trying real hard.