The Moderate Muslim.
The point here is, not what you think is extremist, but what Muslims think is perfectly acceptable in Islam.
Apartheid of men and women, agreeing with sharia punisment is not regarded a extremist to a moderate Muslim.
It is just common, mainstream Islam. It is in the Quran and sunna. Not open to discussion or Allah forbid, rejection.
For western people any Muslim not immediatey engaged in qital (armed warfare) is de facto a moderate Muslim.
Supporting the fighters, supplying and financing them doesn't count as jihad.
Spreading Islam by words, dissimulation, stealth, dawa also doesn't count.
Demographic jihad by mass immigration in the millions does not count either, on the contrary, it is encouraged.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nA3xN5ptZXM
Can't say it better than this:
QuoteCIVILIZED PEOPLE DO NOT VIOLATE THE CIVIL RIGHTS OF OTHERS.
We do not vandalize. We do not engage in hate speech. We have respect for the law. We do not harm our fellow citizens. We are slow to anger and when we finally get angry, we express that anger in a civilized way. UNDER THAT BANNER, I WILL STATE THE FOLLOWING:
Follower of Islam, I do not tolerate you. Your feigned or willful ignorance, about Islam, is no longer an excuse. I hold you personally accountable.
I am offended by you. I cannot and will not tolerate a person, who follows an ideology, which teaches the inferiority of women, the killing and hatred of Jews, the execution of homosexuals, the silencing of free speech, forced amputations, the stoning of rape victims, genital mutilation, and the violent overthrow of all non-Islamic governments and civilizations.
Islam is Nazism with a god. And I cannot and will not “coexist†with Nazis. I will not patronize your places of business. I will not hire you. I will not buy your products. I will not support politicians who support you. I will not be your friend. And if I am your neighbor, I will always be suspicious of you and cautious. I want you to feel so uncomfortable in my free country, in my civilized country, that you renounce your allegiance to this savage and fascist ideology or leave.
ISLAM IS THE ENEMY of free speech, of human rights and of Liberty. If you follow Islam, you are my enemy. I encourage you now to leave Islam and take your place among the civilized people of this world. But if you insist on remaining loyal to the brutal savagery of Islam, your enemies will grow faster than can be contained, by an Islamic lobbyist group or the media or any government agency. This is a zero sum game and the Civilized World will win.
ISLAM HAS BEEN AT WAR FOR 1,400 YEARS with freedom and all that is good. But my head is no longer hidden in the sand. I am at war with you. All people who value human rights, freedom and Liberty should be at war with you. And they will be soon enough, because the enemy of Islam is information and we are spreading information faster than you can keep up with. There is no way to put this genie back in the bottle now. The information age will be the death of Islam.
Your 1,400 year reign of terror is coming to an end. And you, follower of Islam, are on the wrong side of history.
It is time for all civilized people to find the moral clarity and the courage to GET ANGRY and to BECOME INTOLERANT. You have the ability to do this in a civilized way. We must not become like the savages whom we oppose â€" otherwise they win. Islam is Nazism with a god. Islam must be stopped. When you support the followers of Islam, you support an ideology that promotes genocide against the unbeliever - as clearly outlined in the Quran.
THE TIME HAS COME TO BOYCOTT THE FOLLOWERS OF ISLAM. FOLLOWER OF ISLAM, I PERSONALLY HOLD YOU ACCOUNTABLE FOR SUPPORTING THIS FASCIST IDEOLOGY.
Tolerance is overrated. If you follow the Quran, you are the enemy of freedom and you are my enemy.
- Eric Allen Bell
The reason "moderates" do not object to armed warfare 'qital' because they have internalized that armed warfare is indeed integral part of Islam, without which Islam could not exist, spread, and dominate.
But you will not hear that from Muslims.
Instead they instruct some Muslims to spread the lie that they are totally opposed to terror.
It is not at all true, but it makes Shiranu and his fellow travelers (http://atheistforums.com/index.php?topic=8905.0) happy and relaxed. For now.
They cannot understand that Muslims are allowed to lie in the service of Islam.
but then, what do we call muslim women, who don't wear hijab?
and those gay muslim dudes and all those muslim who don't support specific tenants of sharia like amputation and stoning and many more.
Hippocrates, shirk and theirs is the fire in the afterlife.
It is in the Quran.
i don't remember that.
Hypocrites, are simply hypocrites. (i.e Americans saying muslims are murderous thugs)
shirk is specific sin, basically if you put something up with the jealous god, you commit shirk, which is the worst possible sin. its better to eat babies than to commit shirk.
many people will be in hell, including who commits suicide. god will decide at the end.
so that term will not work. maybe something else will be better. but would they accept that too.
you probably are aware that Ahmadi call themselves muslims, the west think of them as muslims. yet huge amount of muslim don't call them muslim.
the same thing could happen for
for the people i asked about above. they will call themselves muslim, whether anyone agrees with them or not.
so we do have a problem.
It is well known that Muslims do not know what Islam is really about, until the imam explains it to them in great detail, and what is expected from them.
That is called "radicalisation" in western language.
Of course the threat of hell and the promise of the celestial brothel helps.
Most Muslims cannot read, so it is up to the clergy to instruct the soldiers of Allah in proper conduct regarding jihad.
Even you, an ex Muslim can be persuaded with "proper coaching" to do the bid of the skillful cleric and to go jihad on the kuffar.
hmm
you have a point.
even more sillier thing is, in my area around my social status, there is a saying
"if your son is smart, make him a doctor or an engineer and if he is dumb, make him a Imam."
so we are back to the problem of what to call those people, who don't really believe in real islam but still wants to call themselves muslims.
Quote from: CloneKai on December 05, 2015, 07:08:42 AM
hmm
you have a point.
even more sillier thing is, in my area around my social status, there is a saying
"if your son is smart, make him a doctor or an engineer and if he is dumb, make him a Imam."
so we are back to the problem of what to call those people, who don't really believe in real islam but still wants to call themselves muslims.
http://www.quranfromallah.com/Topics/Quran-Hypocrites.html
Quote from: pr126 on December 05, 2015, 07:03:37 AM
Even you, an ex Muslim can be persuaded with "proper coaching" to do the bid of the skillful cleric and to go jihad on the kuffar.
I do wonder, reciting 'god is one and mo is his prophet' every time i wake up and every time i sleep for so long, might have caused some irreversible damage to my brain.
but from what i know, i think anyone can be broken and made to do any stupid shit.
Quote from: pr126 on December 05, 2015, 07:17:25 AM
http://www.quranfromallah.com/Topics/Quran-Hypocrites.html
these people were said to be traitors to mo. because they pretended to mumin (muslim), but they were basically lying and were trying create problems in the mumins and betraying them by giving there secrets or any thing they could find to use against mumins.
Quoteplot to murder Prophet Muhammad SAW
Quoterefused to pay the Sadaqah (Zakat)
QuoteKnow they not that Allah knows their secret ideas, and their Najwa (secret counsels), and that Allah is the All-Knower of the unseen.
QuoteAllah will not forgive them, because they have disbelieved in Allah and His Messenger (Muhammad SAW).
QuoteAnd when a Soorah (chapter from the Quran) is revealed, enjoining them to believe in Allah and to strive hard and fight along with His Messenger, the wealthy among them ask your leave to exempt them (from Jihad) and say, "Leave us (behind), we would be with those who sit (at home)
the people who believe in fake islam are not those people.
Quote from: CloneKai on December 05, 2015, 07:08:42 AM
even more sillier thing is, in my area around my social status, there is a saying
"if your son is smart, make him a doctor or an engineer and if he is dumb, make him a Imam."
LOL I love that. :biggrin:
Pr126 - It is possible that CloneKai ... being from Pakistan ... is an actual Aryan. So at least some Muslims are Uber-menschen ... Supermen ... who put their spandex costume one, both legs at once, wear capes, can fly without an airplane and go around beating up on innocent criminals. Since they have a hive mind ... it is clear that mere Europeans are inferior, and ought to simply move out, leaving anything valuable behind for your new masters to enjoy. Maybe Russia wants you ... for Siberian slave labor that is. Since so many Mexicans want to live and work in the US ... we really are full up, so don't bother sending your Eurotrash here.
CloneKai - your Internet motto should be "Up, up and away!" (from old Superman TV show of my childhood).
Also Ahmadiyah (who are not part of an obscure Sufi Tariqah of the same name) are "alternative" Muslims from Pakistan, but who lean more toward Islam than the Sikhs or the Bahais. The only other Pakistani I know on-line, is a member of this cult. Nation of Islam in the US would be comparable. Their sheik went off the rails 100+ years ago, like the Bab in the Bahai cult ... but are closer in practice to normal Muslims.
There is a lot of multi-religion, multi-ethnic tension in Pakistan. The Ahmadiya,h if they were in the US, would probably be considered Muslim by non-Muslims. In Christianity, there has always been some controversy if Protestants are real Christians ... though less controversy regarding the Mormons ... who are usually considered non-Christian by most Christians. In Pakistan, they are considered there, like we consider the more independent branches of Protestantism.
Muhammad's enemies were treated per the standard of his time. I don't see anything different between that say and Chancellor Bismarck. But Muhammad was considerably more moderate than Hitler. So I guess Muhammad was not only a founder of his ethnic group's religion and state ... but also a secret hypocrite against it then? If so, he was brilliant in an eleven dimensional chess way, and we need to convert. I can see why it was hard for early Muslims to depict him graphically, since they didn't have photography, and he was faster than a speeding bullet.
Quote from: SGOS on December 05, 2015, 07:44:39 AM
LOL I love that. :biggrin:
i think it should be quite common. Imams don't get much money normally. they get a free place to stay, low quality food free of charge and small salary from the community. people normally want their children to be successful and happy.
Being Imams just doesn't provide that. only little respect.
Quote from: Baruch on December 05, 2015, 08:39:48 AM
Pr126 - It is possible that CloneKai ... being from Pakistan ... is an actual Aryan. So at least some Muslims are Uber-menschen ... Supermen ... who put their spandex costume one, both legs at once, wear capes, can fly without an airplane and go around beating up on innocent criminals. Since they have a hive mind ... it is clear that mere Europeans are inferior, and ought to simply move out, leaving anything valuable behind for your new masters to enjoy. Maybe Russia wants you ... for Siberian slave labor that is. Since so many Mexicans want to live and work in the US ... we really are full up, so don't bother sending your Eurotrash here.
CloneKai - your Internet motto should be "Up, up and away!" (from old Superman TV show of my childhood).
Also Ahmadiyah (who are not part of an obscure Sufi Tariqah of the same name) are "alternative" Muslims from Pakistan, but who lean more toward Islam than the Sikhs or the Bahais. The only other Pakistani I know on-line, is a member of this cult. Nation of Islam in the US would be comparable. Their sheik went off the rails 100+ years ago, like the Bab in the Bahai cult ... but are closer in practice to normal Muslims.
There is a lot of multi-religion, multi-ethnic tension in Pakistan. The Ahmadiya,h if they were in the US, would probably be considered Muslim by non-Muslims. In Christianity, there has always been some controversy if Protestants are real Christians ... though less controversy regarding the Mormons ... who are usually considered non-Christian by most Christians. In Pakistan, they are considered there, like we consider the more independent branches of Protestantism.
cool, i might be an actual Aryan. can't wait to tell my german friends here.
though being superman is more cooler.
again, you say stuffs which goes over my head. can't you dumb it down for me.
Quote from: CloneKai on December 05, 2015, 08:40:41 AM
i think it should be quite common. Imams don't get much money normally. they get a free place to stay, low quality food free of charge and small salary from the community. people normally want their children to successful and happy.
Being Imams just doesn't provide that. only little respect.
Most Christian clergy don't run megachurches with their own TV programs either. My ex was clergy, and the situation with us was similar to what you describe ... except that Americans are more affluent on average.
QuoteSo at least some Muslims are Uber-menschen ...
All Muslims are Uber-menschen.
Quran 3:110 says so:
Yusuf Ali:
Ye are the best of peoples, evolved for mankind, enjoining what is right, forbidding what is wrong, and believing in Allah. If only the People of the Book had faith, it were best for them: among them are some who have faith, but most of them are perverted transgressors.BTW, Ahmadis are not considered as Muslims in Pakistan.
Quote from: CloneKai on December 05, 2015, 08:44:55 AM
cool, i might be an actual Aryan. can't wait to tell my german friends here.
though being superman is more cooler.
again, you say stuffs which goes over my head. can't you dumb it down for me.
I am typing as slow as I dare ;-) Not trying to use big words, but was English your native language, or was Urdu? Compensating for that will be ... too challenging, since while I have studied a little Farsi and Hindu, I haven't studied Urdu (haven't gotten around to it). There are many languages spoken in Pakistan, though they are mostly related to Farsi and Hindu. Your understanding of English is better than what I understand in any other language than English, even though I have studied, so yes, I do consider you a Superman ;-)
If you have specific questions, and I answer them, then the other readers might benefit. Your German friends are very distant cousins, just as the Gentile part of my ancestry is. My mother is part German-American too. But the Persians are closer to Aryan than the Germans ... as are those lighter toned descendants from the upper levels of Hindus. The swastika was borrowed from Hinduism/Buddhism.
Quote from: pr126 on December 05, 2015, 08:54:14 AM
All Muslims are Uber-menschen.
Quran 3:110 says so:
Yusuf Ali: Ye are the best of peoples, evolved for mankind, enjoining what is right, forbidding what is wrong, and believing in Allah. If only the People of the Book had faith, it were best for them: among them are some who have faith, but most of them are perverted transgressors.
Since you quote the Quran more often than an imam ... either you are ready to convert (and I have entertained the idea myself) or you actually are Muslim yourself. Which part of Western intel services are you from? Or what part of the Middle East?
As a Jewish person, I know that what Muslims aspire to, I already am ... anti-Semites tell me so. I have had a great big mean looking motorcycle club member defer to me in public, when I was wearing my yarmulka because I put it on before going to synagogue. Maybe you Europeans will make good soap (Sarc).
Quote from: Baruch on December 05, 2015, 08:39:48 AM
Pr126 - It is possible that CloneKai ... being from Pakistan ... is an actual Aryan. So at least some Muslims are Uber-menschen ... Supermen ... who put their spandex costume one, both legs at once, wear capes, can fly without an airplane and go around beating up on innocent criminals. Since they have a hive mind ... it is clear that mere Europeans are inferior, and ought to simply move out, leaving anything valuable behind for your new masters to enjoy. Maybe Russia wants you ... for Siberian slave labor that is. Since so many Mexicans want to live and work in the US ... we really are full up, so don't bother sending your Eurotrash here.
CloneKai - your Internet motto should be "Up, up and away!" (from old Superman TV show of my childhood).
:sad:
just explain this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2l4bz1FT8U
But for you, "truth, justice and the Pakistan way".
Quote from: Baruch on December 05, 2015, 08:54:30 AM
I am typing as slow as I dare ;-) Not trying to use big words, but was English your native language, or was Urdu? Compensating for that will be ... too challenging, since while I have studied a little Farsi and Hindu, I haven't studied Urdu (haven't gotten around to it). There are many languages spoken in Pakistan, though they are mostly related to Farsi and Hindu. Your understanding of English is better than what I understand in any other language than English, even though I have studied, so yes, I do consider you a Superman ;-)
Urdu is my native and i understand spoken hindi apparently.
My language skills are piss poor. my English is ok and better than urdu, that might be because i like English books and articles.
Quote from: Baruch on December 05, 2015, 09:02:19 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2l4bz1FT8U
But for you, "truth, justice and the Pakistan way".
Dafuq
I know what superman is, i even know what super saiyan is and spiderman, Narutu and pikachu.
question is
why am i
"Supermen ... who put their spandex costume one, both legs at once, wear capes, can fly without an airplane and go around beating up on innocent criminals. Since they have a hive mind ... it is clear that mere Europeans are inferior, and ought to simply move out, leaving anything valuable behind for your new masters to enjoy"
:rolleyes:
Sorry to belabor ... as someone of possible Aryan origin ... you qualify for the "chose good parents" card. Superman didn't choose to be from Krypton, he just was lucky he wasn't from a wimp planet, so that when he came to Earth, he wasn't miget wimp man.
Quote from: josephpalazzo on December 05, 2015, 05:30:04 AMCIVILIZED PEOPLE DO NOT VIOLATE THE CIVIL RIGHTS OF OTHERS.
Just to play Devil's Advocate for a moment, civil rights are kind of in the eyes of the beholder. Societies over the millennia have all had very different ideas of what human rights really are. As irreligious folk, we're always reminding people that there is no set of objective moral values, and this applies to civil rights as well. You can accuse someone of not thinking their position through very deeply, but you can't declare someone to be in the wrong solely on the basis of them violating your particular concept of civil rights.
Quote from: Hijiri Byakuren on December 05, 2015, 09:27:33 AM
Just to play Devil's Advocate for a moment, civil rights are kind of in the eyes of the beholder. Societies over the millennia have all had very different ideas of what human rights really are. As irreligious folk, we're always reminding people that there is no set of objective moral values, and this applies to civil rights as well. You can accuse someone of not thinking their position through very deeply, but you can't declare someone to be in the wrong solely on the basis of them violating your particular concept of civil rights.
Anti-alcohol, anti-tobacco, anti-drug folks ... will naturally say that you have no civil rights to do any of those things. And from their POV, they are right. This is self reinforcing. Either you are for freedom or you aren't ... and most people are criminals, they are for freedom for themselves and slavery for everyone else. A puritan criminal would tend to victimize drunk smoking pot heads ... because it makes him feel better. That pretty much describes ISIS. Puritan criminals are even worse than the regular ones ... like me.
Baruch wrote:QuoteSince you quote the Quran more often than an imam ... either you are ready to convert (and I have entertained the idea myself) or you actually are Muslim yourself. Which part of Western intel services are you from? Or what part of the Middle East?
Actually, now you asking, I did live in the Middle East from 1956 to 1967. Did speak good hebrew and some Arabic.
But that was a long time ago. Forgot almost all of it. Now just some German, English and fluent moron. ;)
I also did for 2.5 years in the צ×'× while there.
שלו×
Quote from: pr126 on December 05, 2015, 10:13:12 AM
Baruch wrote:Actually, now you asking, I did live in the Middle East from 1956 to 1967. Did speak good hebrew and some Arabic.
But that was a long time ago. Forgot almost all of it. Now just some German, English and fluent moron. ;)
I also did for 2.5 years in the צ×'× while there.
שלו×
The Israeli Army?
Quote from: Jack89 on December 05, 2015, 10:35:37 AM
The Israeli Army?
Yes.
[spoiler](http://i991.photobucket.com/albums/af34/pr126/Shhh_zps5c9osndx.jpg)[/spoiler]
Quote from: Hijiri Byakuren on December 05, 2015, 09:27:33 AM
Just to play Devil's Advocate for a moment, civil rights are kind of in the eyes of the beholder. Societies over the millennia have all had very different ideas of what human rights really are. As irreligious folk, we're always reminding people that there is no set of objective moral values, and this applies to civil rights as well. You can accuse someone of not thinking their position through very deeply, but you can't declare someone to be in the wrong solely on the basis of them violating your particular concept of civil rights.
Yes you can. People do it all the time, and rightly so. If my group has values that hold that free speech, freedom of religion, equal treatment of men and women as the standard, and your group doesn't, I can certainly declare your group wrong in that regard. If your group violates my groups values by throwing a gay man off of a building for being gay, I can and will declare your group to be in the wrong. It may be relative, but there it is.
Quote from: CloneKai on December 05, 2015, 07:08:42 AM
so we are back to the problem of what to call those people, who don't really believe in real islam but still wants to call themselves muslims.
May I suggest "cultural" Muslim, like there are "cultural" Christians who basically celebrate the major Christian feasts but don't buy much into the religion. Many of them don't even go to church on Sunday as it is required by the religion.
Quote from: josephpalazzo on December 05, 2015, 12:57:50 PM
May I suggest "cultural" Muslim, like there are "cultural" Christians who basically celebrate the major Christian feasts but don't buy much into the religion. Many of them don't even go to church on Sunday as it is required by the religion.
but they do buy into the religion. they just don't think mo was that violent. or stoning is ok or amputation. or even burqa.
they think islam is peaceful enough.
they will always consider themselves muslims.
Quote from: pr126 on December 05, 2015, 10:13:12 AM
Actually, now you asking, I did live in the Middle East from 1956 to 1967. Did speak good hebrew and some Arabic.
But that was a long time ago. Forgot almost all of it. Now just some German, English and fluent moron. ;)
I also did for 2.5 years in the צ×'× while there.
שלו×
that might explain your love for islam
Quote from: CloneKai on December 05, 2015, 01:42:16 PM
but they do buy into the religion. they just don't think mo was that violent. or stoning is ok or amputation. or even burqa.
they think islam is peaceful enough.
they will always consider themselves muslims.
Then it would be best to encourage them. It would be an Islam Reformation. A person can believe any given religion, so long as they do not infringe of the rights of others as determined through secular morality. If Islam cannot be eradicated, then "tamed" would be the next best thing.
Quote from: CloneKai on December 05, 2015, 01:42:16 PM
but they do buy into the religion. they just don't think mo was that violent. or stoning is ok or amputation. or even burqa.
they think islam is peaceful enough.
they will always consider themselves muslims.
Many Christians basically do the same - they ignore the hundreds of citations that deal with violence in the bible, and just consider those passages that speak of peace, love and forgiving. They basically compartmentalize to avoid cognitive dissonance.
Quote from: josephpalazzo on December 05, 2015, 01:50:45 PM
Many Christians basically do the same - they ignore the hundreds of citations that deal with violence in the bible, and just consider those passages that speak of peace, love and forgiving. They basically compartmentalize to avoid cognitive dissonance.
that is where the term moderate muslims comes from.
moderate muslims don't call themselves moderate muslims, just muslims and they call isis type things, western agents
Quote from: Jack89 on December 05, 2015, 11:07:01 AM
Yes you can. People do it all the time, and rightly so. If my group has values that hold that free speech, freedom of religion, equal treatment of men and women as the standard, and your group doesn't, I can certainly declare your group wrong in that regard. If your group violates my groups values by throwing a gay man off of a building for being gay, I can and will declare your group to be in the wrong. It may be relative, but there it is.
Exactly, Fatah doesn't like it when Hamas does that to Fatah members/officers. But it wasn't for being gay, and it was in Gaza, not San Francisco. But different group dynamics is why wars occur ... or is the excuse ... when more materialistic goals are true.
CloneKai - quoting error ... it is Pr126 who lived in the Middle East, and served in the Israeli army. Maybe his parents were cultural Jewish, and migrated there from the USSR? Just guessing. But I have never been to Israel, and I have only been to W Turkey, no place else in the Near East. This certainly does color his anti-Islam views ... legitimately. I could hardly expect a Jewish person to be pro-German for example. And certainly very few Israelis are not anti-Arab and anti-Islam. I hope my anti-Likud view of Israel isn't too offensive, but I can't help myself.
Quote from: Aletheia on December 05, 2015, 01:49:09 PM
Then it would be best to encourage them. It would be an Islam Reformation. A person can believe any given religion, so long as they do not infringe of the rights of others as determined through secular morality. If Islam cannot be eradicated, then "tamed" would be the next best thing.
technically they already believe in this. if i was to tell my parents that i am not muslim anymore, they won't kill me, just try to send me to mosques or sh!t like that. Eventually they will give up. one sibling already knows.
Pakistan doesn't follow sharia law, there is no amputation, no stoning.
but people do believe sharia law will make everything better. and western are evil and such.
the way i see, it is because, for my country, we are extremely isolated. everyone is muslim, everyone believe in sharia. no western people walking around, no secular thoughts running around.
so gays are disgusting and spread aids, its the truth. and nobody is gonna challenge it there. (lesbian can be hot though)
same thing for separation of church and state. its in islam so they must always be joined at the hips.
i remember my dad telling me how turkey was sucking up to west, they even legalized prostitution. the way he was staring at me, he might as well has said that they legalized stoning. :confused2:
till muslims remain isolated and in piss poor conditions, isis like people will live one. muslims have no examples to follow, like Christians have with west saying they have jewdo-christain values or whatever you call um.
Quote from: Baruch on December 05, 2015, 02:02:26 PM
Exactly, Fatah doesn't like it when Hamas does that to Fatah members/officers. But it wasn't for being gay, and it was in Gaza, not San Francisco. But different group dynamics is why wars occur ... or is the excuse ... when more materialistic goals are true.
CloneKai - quoting error ... it is Pr126 who lived in the Middle East, and served in the Israeli army. Maybe his parents were cultural Jewish, and migrated there from the USSR? Just guessing. But I have never been to Israel, and I have only been to W Turkey, no place else in the Near East. This certainly does color his anti-Islam views ... legitimately. I could hardly expect a Jewish person to be pro-German for example. And certainly very few Israelis are not anti-Arab and anti-Islam. I hope my anti-Likud view of Israel isn't too offensive, but I can't help myself.
lol fixed
my apologize, i didn't check how it was showing the quote.
and finally, i understood what you said completely. see we can do this, old man :smile2:
I don't believe in Karma.
But, Europe killed off 6 million Jews, and they have replaced them with 60 million Muslims.
I don't think for one moment that this will benefit Europe in any way in the future.
No, it is not schadenfreude. Just stating facts.
Quote from: pr126 on December 05, 2015, 02:20:49 PM
I don't believe in Karma.
But, Europe killed off 6 million Jews, and they have replaced them with 60 million Muslims.
I don't think for one moment that this will benefit Europe in any way in the future.
No, it is not schadenfreude. Just stating facts.
If you keep slaves, you need to keep them in ghettos for 2000 years, and not let them mix with their betters. Like in the Old South ... they stay in the fields or the cabins, you don't invite them up to the Big House. It was the mixing that caused the Gentiles to freak out. As long as Jews stayed in ghettos, they were tolerable. Blame Napoleon, he freed the European Jews. So yes, importing lots of Turks etc ... like the US importing lots of Mexicans ... there could be downside to this. Even though I am pro-Mexican and pro-American both ... because I consider Mexico part of America. The Anglo-Saxons can kiss my ass.
Quote from: CloneKai on December 05, 2015, 02:06:51 PM
technically they already believe in this. if i was to tell my parents that i am not muslim anymore, they won't kill me, just try to send me to mosques or sh!t like that. Eventually they will give up. one sibling already knows.
Pakistan doesn't follow sharia law, there is no amputation, no stoning.
but people do believe sharia law will make everything better. and western are evil and such.
the way i see, it is because, for my country, we are extremely isolated. everyone is muslim, everyone believe in sharia. no western people walking around, no secular thoughts running around.
so gays are disgusting and spread aids, its the truth. and nobody is gonna challenge it there. (lesbian can be hot though)
same thing for separation of church and state. its in islam so they must always be joined at the hips.
i remember my dad telling me how turkey was sucking up to west, they even legalized prostitution. the way he was staring at me, he might as well has said that they legalized stoning. :confused2:
till muslims remain isolated and in piss poor conditions, isis like people will live one. muslims have no examples to follow, like Christians have with west saying the have jewdo-christain values or whatever you call um.
Ah yes. In the U.S. we have similar:
Moderate Christians
If Christian parents find out their children do not want to be Christian anymore, they won't kill them, just try to send them to church. Eventually they will give up.
The U.S. doesn't follow Biblical law, there is no stoning, and no slavery.
Christians here do believe that Biblical law would make everything better and the middle east is evil and such.
This is because Christians in the U.S. have been the majority for a long time. The majority are Christian, and the majority believe Biblical laws is best. They try their best to isolate themselves from non-Christians. Many have never seen a Middle Eastern person. They ignore secular thought.
So, gays are regarded as disgusting and spread AIDS. For them, it is the truth and they won't listen to anyone who challenges that.
Same thing for separation of church and state. The Christian God is supreme and therefore must be the law of the land.
Until Christians stop isolating themselves, then people like the Westboro Baptist Church and "God-Fearing" Politicians will live on.
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You are not alone, but moderate Islam or moderate Christianity is a start, and much better than the violent versions of these religions. That is why a secular society is needed. It allows people with different beliefs to interact in a civilized manner. The children in such societies grow up being aware they are not alone and have interaction with people who are different from them. This counters any of the rumours they may have heard from their community because they can go out and meet different people and find out for themselves what those people are like. It helps people to understand the humanity of other people and prevents us from dehumanizing others.
Quote from: Aletheia on December 05, 2015, 02:29:56 PM
Ah yes. In the U.S. we have similar:
Moderate Christians
If Christian parents find out their children do not want to be Christian anymore, they won't kill them, just try to send them to church. Eventually they will give up.
The U.S. doesn't follow Biblical law, there is no stoning, and no slavery.
Christians here do believe that Biblical law would make everything better and the middle east is evil and such.
This is because Christians in the U.S. have been the majority for a long time. The majority are Christian, and the majority believe Biblical laws is best. They try their best to isolate themselves from non-Christians. Many have never seen a Middle Eastern person. They ignore secular thought.
So, gays are regarded as disgusting and spread AIDS. For them, it is the truth and they won't listen to anyone who challenges that.
Same thing for separation of church and state. The Christian God is supreme and therefore must be the law of the land.
Until Christians stop isolating themselves, then people like the Westboro Baptist Church and "God-Fearing" Politicians will live on.
-----------------------------
You are not alone, but moderate Islam or moderate Christianity is a start, and much better than the violent versions of these religions. That is why a secular society is needed. It allows people with different beliefs to interact in a civilized manner. The children in such societies grow up being aware they are not alone and have interaction with people who are different from them. This counters any of the rumours they may have heard from their community because they can go out and meet different people and find out for themselves what those people are like. It helps people to understand the humanity of other people and prevents us from dehumanizing others.
but there is a huge difference between USA and Pakistan.
people from every corner of the world goes to USA, christain will try but eventually they see things on newspaper, on tv or real life which they will never want to.
Pakistan, well its in "are you fucking insane" tourist spot. no one goes there, normally. and then the censorship is there too.
USA can progress in that direction, Pakistan doesn't have to. law and order is better in USA as compared to Pakistan.
Getting out of community in Pakistan is very difficult, going all the way to west, well you have to be a very lucky bastard. USA not that much.
My ancestors, both Jew and Gentile, had to get out of Europe for the same reason. Think of Europe as a very big version of Pakistan ... lots of different tribes and languages, but mostly the same religion.
Quote from: Baruch on December 05, 2015, 02:28:39 PM
If you keep slaves, you need to keep them in ghettos for 2000 years, and not let them mix with their betters. Like in the Old South ... they stay in the fields or the cabins, you don't invite them up to the Big House. It was the mixing that caused the Gentiles to freak out. As long as Jews stayed in ghettos, they were tolerable. Blame Napoleon, he freed the European Jews. So yes, importing lots of Turks etc ... like the US importing lots of Mexicans ... there could be downside to this. Even though I am pro-Mexican and pro-American both ... because I consider Mexico part of America. The Anglo-Saxons can kiss my ass.
LOL. I have a video for you.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVMAkPnS5jI
But as a Jew, I don't consider myself as White. And I am negotiable on my maleness ;-) Not that I am against over-testosterone Nordics ... but that isn't me.
A lot of what passes for White self hatred, is actually just Jewish self hatred. This is a minority problem, not a majority problem. White males who self-loath, either are Jewish, or might as well be. if I were part of a majority, I would feel better. But living in Israel, in a false sense of Jewishness ... would be like trying to live at Disneyland and thinking you are a genuine Mouseketeer.
Quote from: Baruch on December 05, 2015, 03:08:19 PM
But as a Jew, I don't consider myself as White. And I am negotiable on my maleness ;-) Not that I am against over-testosterone Nordics ... but that isn't me.
A lot of what passes for White self hatred, is actually just Jewish self hatred. This is a minority problem, not a majority problem. White males who self-loath, either are Jewish, or might as well be. if I were part of a majority, I would feel better. But living in Israel, in a false sense of Jewishness ... would be like trying to live at Disneyland and thinking you are a genuine Mouseketeer.
Never really understood "white guilt" or this self-loathing because the current generation of Caucasians resemble some assholes who did some shitty things in the past. This is literally holding children responsible for the sins of their forefathers.
Nah, it's not a "only Jewish" thing... there are gentiles of European ancestry who actually buy into this tripe.
Quote from: Aletheia on December 05, 2015, 06:13:56 PM
Never really understood "white guilt" or this self-loathing because the current generation of Caucasians resemble some assholes who did some shitty things in the past. This is literally holding children responsible for the sins of their forefathers.
Nah, it's not a "only Jewish" thing... there are gentiles of European ancestry who actually buy into this tripe.
They're a bunch of pantywaists.
I got over my self loathing (shades of AA) ... when I recognized that I am a criminal ... and that I am OK being one. But then I have never completely bought into liberalism anyway (if by liberal you mean pacifist). So this is better than AA ... while I do live one day at a time ... I don't have to hold to any fantasy that I will get better. So it is like I am an AA member, but I am OK with moderate drinking ;-)