There are plenty of lurid and detailed descriptions of hell in the world's holy books and their proponents but what do people do in heaven all day? One of the only biblical references to the Godly afterlife can be found in Revelation 4:8 which says...
QuoteThe first creature was like a lion, and the second creature like a calf, and the third creature had a face like that of a man, and the fourth creature was like a flying eagle. And the four living creatures, each one of them having six wings, are full of eyes around and within; and day and night they do not cease to say, "HOLY, HOLY, HOLY is THE LORD GOD, THE ALMIGHTY, WHO WAS AND WHO IS AND WHO IS TO COME." And when the living creatures give glory and honour and thanks to Him who sits on the throne, to Him who lives forever and ever,…
What the actual fuck? I never did hear this in church. Is it not even creepier than the concept of the Lake of Fire? I would rather burn in hell, thanks all the same. Maybe someone can enlighten me as to have this sinister spectacle can rightly be described as paradise and who the hell would want it? Isn't it enough to give a person nightmares?
Christians get to worship God and kiss his feet all day. Doesn't sound so fun, but don't forget that there is no sadness in Heaven. Everything will be perfect, like the people are on some really good drugs 24/7. God will make it so they really enjoy the experience of kissing his feet. God is not the only one getting enjoyment out of this. God is perfect so his feet must be perfect too. I imagine Heaven would be like kissing Miley Cyrus' feet all day, but only better, since she is only human and can't compare to the true perfection that is God.
You are not allowed to use Revelations as anything other than being metaphorical. Christians, however, are allowed to use it word for word as a fine buttressed argument for god hisself. The fact that the very most part of revelations is easily proven hockey puck is lost on those who believe.
Quote from: aitm on October 23, 2015, 06:32:52 PM
You are not allowed to use Revelations as anything other than being metaphorical. Christians, however, are allowed to use it word for word as a fine buttressed argument for god hisself. The fact that the very most part of revelations is easily proven hockey puck is lost on those who believe.
It gets worse, particularly in Christian imagination about the Middle East ... it is used as a blueprint ;-(
I have often wondered about this, myself. What do Christians think they will be doing all day long once they get to heaven? Most of them will say they plan to be worshiping God. For some reason, they like to think that paradise is all about kissing the Dear Leader's ass and telling him what a great guy he is. I can't imagine anything more boring than that. Keep in mind that these people can barely stand to sit in a church pew for a couple of hours each week, and make excuses not to attend Wednesday night Bible Study or the Women's Luncheon for Jesus or whatever. Yet they somehow believe that being in church all day, every day, for all of eternity, is nothing short of perfect bliss.
The oddest part, as if there could be such a thing, is that, and perhaps Barauch will confirm this, is that the OT pretty much promises a great flock of rams as the reward for believing….christians came up with a whole new whack-a-doodle idea.
Quote from: FaithIsFilth on October 23, 2015, 06:21:48 PM
Christians get to worship God and kiss his feet all day.
Maybe kissing gods feet is like licking a toad ? :)
QuoteMy idea of heaven is eating paté de foie gras to the sound of trumpets.
Reverend Sydney Smith (1771-1845),
This vision of heaven though is no longer available in many states of the USA due to the intervention of the animal rights lobby.
Quote from: aitm on October 23, 2015, 08:24:25 PM
The oddest part, as if there could be such a thing, is that, and perhaps Barauch will confirm this, is that the OT pretty much promises a great flock of rams as the reward for believing….christians came up with a whole new whack-a-doodle idea.
Well it takes two to tango. Basically you will get one or more wives, gets lots of healthy children, and your flocks of sheep and goats will flourish ... like that Job guy, until G-d had his employee, Satan, throw Job and his family under the bus. And of course you need sheep and goats of both sexes. So not just rams, but ewes as well ... and billies and nannies. See you need both species to kind of support each other, and usually taking care of the flocks is a job for your children. With the livestock and children out of the way, it is time for centenarian Abraham and one year younger Sarah to get it on (eww not ewe) and if she gets tired, there is always Hagar ;-)
Quote from: Termin on October 23, 2015, 08:29:14 PM
Maybe kissing gods feet is like licking a toad ? :)
It is hallucination, all the way down ;-)
I've heard all sorts of silly ass ideas about heaven such as being reunited with loved ones.. There's aunt Mary, cousin John, Brother Sam, but wa...huh? What happened to mom?
Oh, didn't you hear? She was almost perfect, a great mother and wife. She was always giving to charity and everything except you know.. THAT BITCH once looked at Elvis and wanted to get laid so she's in hell burning forever... Fucking imperfect mom..
What? no mention of 72 virgins and permanent hard on? Of rivers of wine? Boys like pearls?
Now thats what I call imagination. Mo knew how to sell an afterlife.
Disclaimer: I hold no personal opinion on the afterlife because i think more emphasis should be placed on actual life
The current chatter among religious folk is that heaven is an immortal life without sin, there will be jobs, work, rest, eating food; except there is no marriage and no sin, the two being separate (marriage isnt considered sin in protestant sects)
Please dont consider these my beliefs, theyre just things i hear people say
Quote from: Contemporary Protestant on October 24, 2015, 02:01:28 AMThe current chatter among religious folk is that heaven is an immortal life without sin, there will be jobs, work,
Uggh. Work forever. Makes me wonder if they got the descriptions of heaven and hell mixed up.
Quote from: FaithIsFilth on October 23, 2015, 06:21:48 PMI imagine Heaven would be like kissing Miley Cyrus' feet all day, but only better, since she is only human and can't compare to the true perfection that is God.
I could kiss Miley Cyrus's feet all day, but not god's. God's a guy and I'm not gay.
I would ask any Christian who believes they will go to heaven to describe what they will do all day every day. Then I'd ask them "would you do that now here on earth? No hobbies, no spending time with family or friends, no job, no relaxation, no sleep, just bowing to and praising God every moment of your existence, would you do that now?".
In comparison, hell sounds like a paradise, you might get string up and burned, raped by demons, and thrown into a burning lake, but at least hell gives you the option to feel something.
Heaven would be the very hell for humansAny normal well adapted individual placed in any of the traditional conceptions of heaven would experience suffering. Essentially on a very basic level of how any normal animal functions it is hard wired into us that heaven would produce suffering, the only way to get round this is the individual would have to be drugged, or suffering from a mental condition, or undergo extreme training to dissipate what many theists would say is a christard virtue.
To enjoy heaven you would have to be retarded.
The conceptions of heaven and hell in the Abrahamic traditions are driven by an idea of justice, that ultimately our good deeds are rewarded and our bad deeds are punished. What gawd does not balance in this life gets sorted in the next. The Lutheran concept that gawd knows who will enter heaven before they are born is not at odds with this, essentially it is only a variation on a theme. Even the Buddhist notion of nirvana, 'the escape from suffering' it can be proven could only be achieved by a retarded individual.
Animals are evolved to be nicer than those who could enjoy heaven if it existed. Now I can see that in reading this you might presume this is just the normal guff jonb comes out with made up of opinion and personal invective, but this time I am not going to rest my case on the persuasiveness of my rhetoric, but give you the science that backs it up.
The Mirror neuron
QuoteA mirror neuron is a neuron that fires both when an animal acts and when the animal observes the same action performed by another. Thus, the neuron "mirrors" the behaviour of the other, as though the observer were itself acting. Such neurons have been directly observed in primate species. Birds have been shown to have imitative resonance behaviours and neurological evidence suggests the presence of some form of mirroring system. In humans, brain activity consistent with that of mirror neurons has been found in the premotor cortex, the supplementary motor area, the primary somatosensory cortex and the inferior parietal cortex.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirror_neuron (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirror_neuron)
What does this mean? It means and is proven that our brains which are normally developed are hard wired to feel, what the person or thing that we observe or think about feels. You might want to read this-
QuoteYou're walking through a park when out of nowhere, the man in front of you gets smacked by an errant Frisbee. Automatically, you recoil in sympathy. Or you're watching a race, and you feel your own heart racing with excitement as the runners vie to cross the finish line first. Or you see a woman sniff some unfamiliar food and wrinkle her nose in disgust. Suddenly, your own stomach turns at the thought of the meal.
For years, such experiences have puzzled psychologists, neuroscientists and philosophers, who've wondered why we react at such a gut level to other people's actions. How do we understand, so immediately and instinctively, their thoughts, feelings and intentions?
Now, some researchers believe that a recent discovery called mirror neurons might provide a neuroscience-based answer to those questions. Mirror neurons are a type of brain cell that respond equally when we perform an action and when we witness someone else perform the same action. They were first discovered in the early 1990s, when a team of Italian researchers found individual neurons in the brains of macaque monkeys that fired both when the monkeys grabbed an object and also when the monkeys watched another primate grab the same object.
http://www.apa.org/monitor/oct05/mirror.aspx (http://www.apa.org/monitor/oct05/mirror.aspx)
Mirror Neurons are why we react on an instinctive level to pictures like this-
(http://cbsnews1.cbsistatic.com/hub/i/r/2002/03/01/cafe50e4-a642-11e2-a3f0-029118418759/thumbnail/620x350/b15aca18ce0ec5f24b4403f39d68fd1d/image502527x.jpg)
Or why when there are so many fears of mass migration of people from alien cultures moving into our own societies one picture can cut through all the talk and people react on a very visceral level.
(http://i.imgur.com/pxfwj8T.jpg?1)
So could any normally developed human sit happily in heaven while others are suffering in hell and be aware?
I have more to say on this but knowing aitm's sensibilities, I will stop this wall of text for now.
aren't there 40 virgins to fuck? That right there oughta use up some time, unless you die when you're 20.
They will bask in the glory of God. Ain't that enough?!!? Perpetual orgasm...
The Syrian Refugee Propaganda War of Emotion (http://libertygb.org.uk/v1/index.php/news-libertygb/6874-the-syrian-refugee-propaganda-war-of-emotion)
QuoteThe media are complicit in the shift of our attitudes by manipulating people, by distorting the facts and shamelessly showing images of deceased children to use emotion against us. This is a propaganda war and you should not fall for it.
These poor, dead children deserved far better from their parents. These people are fleeing safety from Turkey in order to enjoy a better lifestyle in the West, and the death of their children is on their hands, not ours. It is not our responsibility to even consider helping clean up this terrible mess.
Quote from: Hydra009 on October 24, 2015, 03:17:49 AM
Uggh. Work forever. Makes me wonder if they got the descriptions of heaven and hell mixed up.
That is the classic Egyptian version ... of Osiris. Oh and the class structure there is the same as the class structure here. If you were a farmer here, you are a farmer there.
Pr126 - apparently you were born without mirror neurons ;-(
Jonb - I take exception to your description of nirvana. It simply means you stop reincarnating ... which on other terms means you actually stop living (in a system where you can never really die). For Asians, death is a door between one life and the next, that has no end, unless you are successfully Buddhist. And yes, there is the justice aspect. Basically if you eat a hamburger, you will reincarnate as that same cow (to be eaten by you). If you abuse your wife, you will be reborn as a woman who is married to and beaten by you.
Quote from: 1liesalot on October 23, 2015, 05:55:25 PM
There are plenty of lurid and detailed descriptions of hell in the world's holy books and their proponents but what do people do in heaven all day? One of the only biblical references to the Godly afterlife can be found in Revelation 4:8 which says...
QuoteThe first creature was like a lion, and the second creature like a calf, and the third creature had a face like that of a man, and the fourth creature was like a flying eagle. And the four living creatures, each one of them having six wings, are full of eyes around and within; and day and night they do not cease to say, "HOLY, HOLY, HOLY is THE LORD GOD, THE ALMIGHTY, WHO WAS AND WHO IS AND WHO IS TO COME." And when the living creatures give glory and honour and thanks to Him who sits on the throne, to Him who lives forever and ever,…
What the actual fuck? I never did hear this in church. Is it not even creepier than the concept of the Lake of Fire? I would rather burn in hell, thanks all the same. Maybe someone can enlighten me as to have this sinister spectacle can rightly be described as paradise and who the hell would want it? Isn't it enough to give a person nightmares?
In my teens, I was told by a devout Christian woman that, "Young Christians or those new to fold are advised not to read Revelations right away as they cannot fully understand it until they have become stronger in their faith." From that I extrapolate that gullibility somehow increases proportionally with faith.
What do they do? While they purport to be joyful with the idea of singing and playing their harps on clouds with the angels all day, every day, for millions of years, it's for sure that Jeeeezzzus would tire of that sound after a few minutes. Fortunately for him, being god and all, he's everywhere. This would mean he has self-duplicative powers, which means he has enough dicks for everyone in his hole-y harem to suck on, which keeps him very gratified with the "woship" while keeping them quiet.
Quote from: Baruch on October 24, 2015, 09:14:48 AM
Jonb - I take exception to your description of nirvana. It simply means you stop reincarnating ... which on other terms means you actually stop living (in a system where you can never really die). For Asians, death is a door between one life and the next, that has no end, unless you are successfully Buddhist. And yes, there is the justice aspect. Basically if you eat a hamburger, you will reincarnate as that same cow (to be eaten by you). If you abuse your wife, you will be reborn as a woman who is married to and beaten by you.
QuoteThe First Noble Truth of Buddhism is that life is suffering. To live, you must suffer. It is impossible to live without experiencing some kind of suffering. We have to endure physical suffering like sickness, injury, tiredness, old age and eventually death and we have to endure psychological suffering like loneliness, frustrations, fear, embarrassment, disappointment, anger, etc.
So to reach that state 'nirvana' and step beyond suffering, you leave others behind, you cannot do that with intact mirror neurons, because you will feel the others suffering, so in some way that function has to be impaired or you have to be retarded.
Pr yes those pictures are so visceral that we can be controlled by them, but don't worry people seem more than able to wash their hands and to cling to learnt behaviours like repeating the words
QuoteIt's not my responsibility
It's not my responsibility
It's not
There are profound differences between the three major schools of Buddhism. It seems the Theravada is more studied in Britain ... the Mahayana and Vajrayana is more studied in the US. In Mahayana, one deliberately delays entrance into Nirvana, simply because it is more compassionate and self sacrificing to be a bodhisattva (evangelist aka apostle aka doctor of the soul). The Theravada in contrast is more monkish, more selfish. Also dukkha is mis=translated as suffering ... basically it is karma, with a negative slant. So a bodhisattva, while alive in this world, continues to struggle with karma/dukkha/suffering ... so that the karma/dukkha/suffering of others might be reduced. But not substitutionary atonement like with Church Jesus ... a living Buddhist is supposed to work out their own salvation ... it simply is helpful to have someone more experienced help you.
For some Buddhists, death in nirvana is an atheist death ... one simply ceases. And thus one is unavailable to help others ... it is a depressed person seeking the easy way out ... a kind of living death suicide as a monk/nun (same as in Christianity) ... until paranirvana is reached. Mahayana and Vajrayana Buddhism are much more social and positive. Being alive, in spite of suffering, is a challenge ... and meaningful if put to use in meaningful ways.
QuoteA mirror neuron is a neuron that fires both when an animal acts and when the animal observes the same action performed by another. Thus, the neuron "mirrors" the behaviour of the other, as though the observer were itself acting. Such neurons have been directly observed in primate species. Birds have been shown to have imitative resonance behaviours and neurological evidence suggests the presence of some form of mirroring system. In humans, brain activity consistent with that of mirror neurons has been found in the premotor cortex, the supplementary motor area, the primary somatosensory cortex and the inferior parietal cortex.
One of the most effective ways to torture people is to make them watch someone getting tortured.
Quote from: Baruch on October 23, 2015, 10:25:01 PM
It is hallucination, all the way down ;-)
I had a day laborer in Lubbock Tx working for a few days, he was quiet and a good worker, just how I like them. One day he says, "I've seen Heaven". I said "goody for you, I am sure you're dying to get there eh?" He was quiet for a minute then started giving me the details of heaven. Gold everywhere, streets of gold, people happy and walking by without cares, no sickness, all beauty and love and peace and the feeling of wonder and glory was everywhere……"when I was a engineer I saw it"....
"Nice", I says, "bethca can't wait to get there eh, you know the door to the roof is unlocked". He didn't say anything. So I said, "so what got you here, you know, on the day labor thing from being an engineer?"
"Drug Addiction"…
Okay then….
C'mon..heaven is a big car wash and you get to wash the godmobile all day and polish the fenders.. Woooo!
Quote from: aitm on October 24, 2015, 04:36:59 PM
He didn't say anything. So I said, "so what got you here, you know, on the day labor thing from being an engineer?"
"Drug Addiction"…
Okay then….
I had a friend in college who saw the Devil. He was quite adamant after that the Devil was real. He saw it when he was on drugs too. Nothing like a good drug induced psychosis to make a believer out of you.
Quote from: SGOS on October 24, 2015, 05:03:05 PM
I had a friend in college who saw the Devil. He was quite adamant after that the Devil was real. He saw it when he was on drugs too. Nothing like a good drug induced psychosis to make a believer out of you.
Let us not forget about our pious friends who "find jesus" and get cured of addiction by the grace of GAWD.. I spent close to 10 years in drug treatment and wish I could tell you how many people think the ONLY reason I was successful at kicking my bad habits was the big invisible thing in the sky. Of course it had nothing at all to do with my own determination and perseverance. OH NO! It was all just the invisible thing in the sky. Yup, it was my higher power.. You know..that rotten orange. LOL
Quote from: AllPurposeAtheist on October 24, 2015, 09:53:56 PM
Let us not forget about our pious friends who "find jesus" and get cured of addiction by the grace of GAWD.. I spent close to 10 years in drug treatment and wish I could tell you how many people think the ONLY reason I was successful at kicking my bad habits was the big invisible thing in the sky. Of course it had nothing at all to do with my own determination and perseverance. OH NO! It was all just the invisible thing in the sky. Yup, it was my higher power.. You know..that rotten orange. LOL
Yep. Been there and seen it myself: "Your best thinking got you here, so turn yourself over to a spirit who's existence is unsupportable, and let him do the thinking for you." Undoubtedly, a lot of people get into rehab with a lot of denial and rationalization, but that's hardly their "BEST" thinking. It's actually their worst thinking. Other parts of their reasoning are still intact, but rather than develop those strengths, they are advised to throw it all out. If they were irrational before, they are asked to double down and take the worst of their thinking to the next level, and summon the spirit world to solve their problems.
Congratulations; You deserve all the credit for finding your way out of that nightmare. And there's nothing wrong about taking the responsibility or the credit for everything you do, both the good and the bad. Part of becoming stronger is in recognizing your strength, and giving up the habit of seeing yourself as a helpless pawn in a world of incomprehensible magic.
SGOS - yes, being helpless in a magical world ... is the position of the child. But unless you have lost your inner child, a part of you still lives in that world.
QuoteWhat do people do all day in heaven?
They do heavenly things, of course.
(https://i.imgur.com/SIDKB16.gif)
More realistically ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GouVGvH20ic
Quote from: 1liesalot on October 23, 2015, 05:55:25 PM
There are plenty of lurid and detailed descriptions of hell in the world's holy books and their proponents but what do people do in heaven all day? One of the only biblical references to the Godly afterlife can be found in Revelation 4:8 which says...
What the actual fuck? I never did hear this in church. Is it not even creepier than the concept of the Lake of Fire? I would rather burn in hell, thanks all the same. Maybe someone can enlighten me as to have this sinister spectacle can rightly be described as paradise and who the hell would want it? Isn't it enough to give a person nightmares?
You speak of a description of a charibum if I'm not mistaken. That's not a descriptor of heaven or what existence in heaven will contain.
Faith in selfless Unity for Good.
Quote from: Hijiri Byakuren on October 25, 2015, 12:12:26 PM
They do heavenly things, of course.
(https://i.imgur.com/SIDKB16.gif)
Entertainment to last for a few seconds. What do you do for the rest of eternity... :angel:
Quote from: Hijiri Byakuren on October 25, 2015, 12:12:26 PM
They do heavenly things, of course.
(https://i.imgur.com/SIDKB16.gif)
The problem here is that they would never allow this kind of thing in heaven.
If you wanted hookers or heroin youd have to go to Hell, all the fun stuff would be there.
Quote from: Cocoa Beware on October 25, 2015, 04:59:28 PM
The problem here is that they would never allow this kind of thing in heaven.
If you wanted hookers or heroin youd have to go to Hell, all the fun stuff would be there.
The question only asked about heaven. It never specified which version.
Secretly a Warsie.
Quote from: FaithIsFilth on October 23, 2015, 06:21:48 PM
Christians get to worship God and kiss his feet all day. Doesn't sound so fun, but don't forget that there is no sadness in Heaven. Everything will be perfect, like the people are on some really good drugs 24/7. God will make it so they really enjoy the experience of kissing his feet. God is not the only one getting enjoyment out of this. God is perfect so his feet must be perfect too. I imagine Heaven would be like kissing Miley Cyrus' feet all day, but only better, since she is only human and can't compare to the true perfection that is God.
So even his feet are holy, holy, holy? Thought as much.
What I was taught pretty consistently in church was that Heaven was a place where no negative emotions exist, marriage doesn't exist because of there being no male or female, and the only jobs that would be around are those people love to do. You know, like the dream job you always wanted to have in life, but could do because the real world sucks. Activities would include sharing stories with other believers, worshiping God with singing and dancing, and pretty much whatever you find enjoyable. It was also taught that there were two separate judgments: one for the damned and one for the saints. The first was to determine appropriate punishments, and the second was to determine rewards. The nature of those rewards was never specified, but Jesus was always vague in his descriptions of heaven anyway.
Personally, I like the idea of a peaceful life after death, and still hope one exists. But my expectations are a little different. I would think that our experiences would be detached from concepts of time and space, being present with everyone at once, and understanding everything. It wouldn't grow old, because there'd be no sense of a passage of time. In a way, it would be like living in a happy photograph. Whether or not such a thing exists, I suppose, we can never know until we get there.
Quote from: Blackleaf on October 30, 2015, 12:10:57 PM
What I was taught pretty consistently in church was that Heaven was a place where no negative emotions exist, marriage doesn't exist because of there being no male or female, and the only jobs that would be around are those people love to do. You know, like the dream job you always wanted to have in life, but could do because the real world sucks. Activities would include sharing stories with other believers, worshiping God with singing and dancing, and pretty much whatever you find enjoyable. It was also taught that there were two separate judgments: one for the damned and one for the saints. The first was to determine appropriate punishments, and the second was to determine rewards. The nature of those rewards was never specified, but Jesus was always vague in his descriptions of heaven anyway.
Personally, I like the idea of a peaceful life after death, and still hope one exists. But my expectations are a little different. I would think that our experiences would be detached from concepts of time and space, being present with everyone at once, and understanding everything. It wouldn't grow old, because there'd be no sense of a passage of time. In a way, it would be like living in a happy photograph. Whether or not such a thing exists, I suppose, we can never know until we get there.
Actually, we will never know. Once you die, there is no 'us' any more to know anything. From atoms we sprang and to atoms we go.
Quote from: Mike Cl on October 30, 2015, 12:15:03 PM
Actually, we will never know. Once you die, there is no 'us' any more to know anything. From atoms we sprang and to atoms we go.
I'm personally of the opinion that the world is the product of the mind, rather than the other way around. I find it a little hard to swallow that some special combination of matter can create the consciousness, along with all of its personal experiences from the senses. The mind creating matter, however, is something I do every night when I fall asleep.
Quote from: 1liesalot on October 25, 2015, 09:07:27 PM
So even his feet are holy, holy, holy? Thought as much.
(http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff277/josephpalazzo/2lhAS.jpg) (http://s243.photobucket.com/user/josephpalazzo/media/2lhAS.jpg.html)
Quote from: Blackleaf on October 30, 2015, 12:10:57 PM
What I was taught pretty consistently in church was that Heaven was a place where no negative emotions exist.... and the only jobs that would be around are those people love to do. You know, like the dream job you always wanted to have in life, but could do because the real world sucks.
I want to be the dictator of Heaven and rule with an iron hand.
Quote from: SGOS on October 30, 2015, 12:50:00 PM
I want to be the dictator of Heaven and rule with an iron hand.
The traditional view is ... better to be king in hell than slave in heaven.
Quote from: Blackleaf on October 30, 2015, 12:22:39 PM
I'm personally of the opinion that the world is the product of the mind, rather than the other way around. I find it a little hard to swallow that some special combination of matter can create the consciousness, along with all of its personal experiences from the senses. The mind creating matter, however, is something I do every night when I fall asleep.
Really? And where is this matter you have created? While you are at it, could you create some gold for me? I would appreciate it. I have dreams, even lucid dreams--but when I wake up, I find nothing there--I have created nothing but an internal state. And if I don't write down what that state is, even the memory of it goes away. Are you suggesting that what you dream is now real in another dimension? So, this universe is simply the result of some beings dream?
Do you have any evidence of this 'mind'? What then, created this mind? Another mind? Is this mind attached to a body--or is it just a mind?
Quote from: Mike Cl on October 30, 2015, 02:10:55 PM
Really? And where is this matter you have created? While you are at it, could you create some gold for me? I would appreciate it. I have dreams, even lucid dreams--but when I wake up, I find nothing there--I have created nothing but an internal state. And if I don't write down what that state is, even the memory of it goes away. Are you suggesting that what you dream is now real in another dimension? So, this universe is simply the result of some beings dream?
I understand that dreams are illusions, which go away when we wake up, but how do we know that the real world is much different?
Quote from: Mike Cl on October 30, 2015, 02:10:55 PMDo you have any evidence of this 'mind'? What then, created this mind? Another mind? Is this mind attached to a body--or is it just a mind?
It's not an idea that can be proven or disproven, but it makes more sense to me. But whether we begin with a master mind or a big bang, you still have to start with something.
I don't pretend to know anything, but there are a few theories that would fit, including solipsism. Another idea is the idea that life is like a shared dream, with people collectively creating the reality around them. What I would expect is that there is a larger mind that all others come from. The minds create the world, with all of its rules, including the ways the smaller minds react to changes in the body. So the mind control the body, which affects the minds. It's a little convoluted, perhaps, but it gets around the problem of how physical matter creates an immaterial thing like the mind.
(http://gifsec.com/wp-content/uploads/GIF/2015/03/Funny-Magic-Reaction-Gif.gif?gs=a)
Quote from: Blackleaf on October 30, 2015, 04:07:23 PM
I understand that dreams are illusions, which go away when we wake up, but how do we know that the real world is much different?
It's not an idea that can be proven or disproven, but it makes more sense to me. But whether we begin with a master mind or a big bang, you still have to start with something.
I pretend to know anything, but there are a few theories that would fit, including solipsism. Another idea is the idea that life is like a shared dream, with people collectively creating the reality around them. What I would expect is that there is a larger mind that all others come from. The minds create the world, with all of its rules, including the ways the smaller minds react to changes in the body. So the mind control the body, which affects the minds. It's a little convoluted, perhaps, but it gets around the problem of how physical matter creates an immaterial thing like the mind.
Well, I do understand that life itself is a bit difficult to understand. And I fully appreciate that you have your own ways of looking at it and trying to make sense of it. I'm not through doing that yet, myself, I suspect. It does not bother me that physical and material things can combine in ways that produce seemingly impossible things. I understand my brain as being composed of physical compounds and elements. The chemicals in my brain produce stuff like electricity and such that powers the nerves that supply consciousness--nothing magical, just seems like it sometimes. Which is why when I die "I" die with my brain. And I no longer exists. Those connections that are needed in my brain no longer are--and never will be again. And that does not bother me.
Quote from: Blackleaf on October 30, 2015, 04:07:23 PM
I understand that dreams are illusions, which go away when we wake up, but how do we know that the real world is much different?
It's not an idea that can be proven or disproven, but it makes more sense to me. But whether we begin with a master mind or a big bang, you still have to start with something.
I pretend to know anything, but there are a few theories that would fit, including solipsism. Another idea is the idea that life is like a shared dream, with people collectively creating the reality around them. What I would expect is that there is a larger mind that all others come from. The minds create the world, with all of its rules, including the ways the smaller minds react to changes in the body. So the mind control the body, which affects the minds. It's a little convoluted, perhaps, but it gets around the problem of how physical matter creates an immaterial thing like the mind.
I quite agree, but please don't stop there ;-) We have various experiences. These experiences have various characteristics. The way these experiences play together vary from person to person, even when it is a directly shared experience. There could be one experience, or several that overlap. It is easiest for me to contemplate the second alternative. Which is to say ... why I use the phrase "person to person" instead of just "person". For me a "person" is a state of being/becoming ... and there at least naively exist more than one, and they overlap or there could be no shared experience or communication between them. Some experiences have the characteristics of night dreams, some have the characteristics of being awake, and others overlap as day dreams. This is a continuity for me ... I have no reason to deny sight because I can hear, or deny hearing because I can see ... each experience has its own value. Psychologists would tell you that if we didn't sleep at all, or dream at all, we would go mad. So perhaps sleep and dreaming are important, just as being awake is important. The idea that mind is primary, rather than matter ... is because of the philosophical Idealist, John Berkeley. The lexicographer Samuel Johnson, when discussing these ideas with his friend and biographer, Boswell ... kicked a stone with his shoe and said ... "I refute him (Berkeley that is) thus!". But then Samuel Johnson didn't know quantum mechanics ;-)
Quote from: Mike Cl on October 30, 2015, 04:58:33 PM
Well, I do understand that life itself is a bit difficult to understand. And I fully appreciate that you have your own ways of looking at it and trying to make sense of it. I'm not through doing that yet, myself, I suspect. It does not bother me that physical and material things can combine in ways that produce seemingly impossible things. I understand my brain as being composed of physical compounds and elements. The chemicals in my brain produce stuff like electricity and such that powers the nerves that supply consciousness--nothing magical, just seems like it sometimes. Which is why when I die "I" die with my brain. And I no longer exists. Those connections that are needed in my brain no longer are--and never will be again. And that does not bother me.
Except that matter isn't real (in the sense of Samuel Johnson vs George Berkeley), because we have an illusion of solidity because atoms are almost entirely empty space, and the Pauli exclusion principle and the Heisenberg uncertainly principle keeps things from collapsing in on themselves or passing thru each other (though solid objects do pass thru air). Per the old materialism, modern science is magic. You can even make light without starting a fire ;-)
Christians get to kiss gods ass for eternity
Muslims get to fuck weird looking pale girls whose bones you can see through their skin for all eternity
Hindus got some shit with a peacock and a river of honey going on
Mormons get their own planet.
Quote from: Baruch on October 30, 2015, 07:16:47 PM
Except that matter isn't real (in the sense of Samuel Johnson vs George Berkeley), because we have an illusion of solidity because atoms are almost entirely empty space, and the Pauli exclusion principle and the Heisenberg uncertainly principle keeps things from collapsing in on themselves or passing thru each other (though solid objects do pass thru air). Per the old materialism, modern science is magic. You can even make light without starting a fire ;-)
I know, I know. Nothing is real. But until I can put my finger through a steel bar, I'll continue to think that that steel bar is real. What is real is what science has revealed it to be. Old materialism--new materialism--I don't care. Whatever science can demonstrate is real enough for me. We are learning more and more the real nature of this universe as we can see, feel, taste, and understand. That is enough for me.
Quote from: Mike Cl on October 30, 2015, 09:02:51 PM
I know, I know. Nothing is real. But until I can put my finger through a steel bar, I'll continue to think that that steel bar is real. What is real is what science has revealed it to be. Old materialism--new materialism--I don't care. Whatever science can demonstrate is real enough for me. We are learning more and more the real nature of this universe as we can see, feel, taste, and understand. That is enough for me.
Thank you Samuel Johnson. Now back to making funny definitions of words in a big list with you! Lexicographers!
Quote from: Baruch on October 30, 2015, 10:57:53 PM
Thank you Samuel Johnson. Now back to making funny definitions of words in a big list with you! Lexicographers!
You are welcome. Happy to be of service.
Here is a reason why it is impossible for nothing but happiness to be experienced in Heaven. The main reason we are happy and thankful is because we experience harships through life that make the happy moments... well, happy. If there is no sadness, then there is nothing to make positivity positive. Everything will get dull quickly because you will lose thought of pain and suffering, and along with that you will lose thought of emotion altogether because they correlate and can barely function without eachother. Nothing but happiness will lead to nothing but nothing.
Heaven/Hell is one place, not two. A lot like towns with the better and worser neighborhoods. And there is no need to wait ... Heaven/Hell is right here, right now. The distinction between this life/next life is erroneous. Like saying that because I have a right hand, I have to wait until I am dead for my left hand to appear. But this POV is terrible ... there is no second chance, this is it!
Quote from: Baruch on January 27, 2016, 07:29:23 PM
Heaven/Hell is one place, not two. A lot like towns with the better and worser neighborhoods. And there is no need to wait ... Heaven/Hell is right here, right now. The distinction between this life/next life is erroneous. Like saying that because I have a right hand, I have to wait until I am dead for my left hand to appear. But this POV is terrible ... there is no second chance, this is it!
According to the descriptions I've read of Heaven and Hell in the New Testament, Heaven and Hell are built right next to each other. There's a gap in between that prevents passage from one to the other, but you can still talk back and forth. In fact, they're so close together that people in Hell can see inside the city of Heaven and see them eating. From Heaven, you'll always have the lovely view of all of your family and friends from your mortal life who didn't give their hearts to Jesus burning in eternal fiery torment. I wonder what a planet-sized pile of perpetually burning bodies smells like.
Quote from: Blackleaf on January 28, 2016, 01:06:08 AMAccording to the descriptions I've read of Heaven and Hell in the New Testament, Heaven and Hell are built right next to each other.
(http://i.imgur.com/2BwW6.jpg)
Quote from: Blackleaf on January 28, 2016, 01:06:08 AM
According to the descriptions I've read of Heaven and Hell in the New Testament, Heaven and Hell are built right next to each other. There's a gap in between that prevents passage from one to the other, but you can still talk back and forth. In fact, they're so close together that people in Hell can see inside the city of Heaven and see them eating. From Heaven, you'll always have the lovely view of all of your family and friends from your mortal life who didn't give their hearts to Jesus burning in eternal fiery torment. I wonder what a planet-sized pile of perpetually burning bodies smells like.
I'm not familiar with that description, but it explains something that always bothered me in a Movie titled The Rapture, starring Mimi Rogers, an atheist: A promiscuous woman finds religion, and sends her daughter to Heaven, but is disappointed with Christianity, and turns against God and sends herself to Hell, where she could still talk to her daughter on "the other side." So the screen writers didn't just pull that concept out of thin air.
Well they breed like rabbits so it must be sex, sex, sex and more sex.....
With ugly people..
Whatever the believers think the gloriousâ,,¢ afterlife to be, their descriptions and wishes of it seem quite simple. It's like a monkey getting 3 wishes from a genie, "Yes, me want all the females and a mountain of bananas and all the grubs I can eat." That's what I hear when I hear believers describe their heaven. That's really what they think will happen? Sex and other hedonistic pleasures? Simpletons.
Quote from: Blackleaf on January 28, 2016, 01:06:08 AM
According to the descriptions I've read of Heaven and Hell in the New Testament, Heaven and Hell are built right next to each other. There's a gap in between that prevents passage from one to the other, but you can still talk back and forth. In fact, they're so close together that people in Hell can see inside the city of Heaven and see them eating. From Heaven, you'll always have the lovely view of all of your family and friends from your mortal life who didn't give their hearts to Jesus burning in eternal fiery torment. I wonder what a planet-sized pile of perpetually burning bodies smells like.
This is from the parable of Lazarus the beggar in the NT of course. The rich guy didn't help the beggar, Lazarus. Lazarus goes to Gan-Eden to be with Abraham, and the rich guy goes to Ge-Hinnom. In the common mind, this gets confused with the rich guy who was self satisfied, but died later that night, and couldn't take his goods with him ... and Lazarus the guy that Jesus resurrected after 4 days.
Quote from: FaithIsFilth on October 23, 2015, 06:21:48 PM
Christians get to worship God and kiss his feet all day.
(https://electsister777.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/feet.jpg?w=660)
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-rFB_V7NW0_I/VQrvR4fUeZI/AAAAAAAABec/h71Ms0t_RmU/s1600/laughing-pope-francis.jpg)
Good thing G-d is perfect ... no warts, bunions or callouses ;-) ... no athlete's feet either ;-)) ... since G-d is resting on a very long Sabbath day. Pedicurists don't go to Heaven, because if they did, there would be nothing for them to do.
I wonder this to. What the heck do you do all day? I would rather go to hell. At least he'll has those awful sinners. But at least they have air conditioning and science. Maybe the cure from cancer will come from a person in hell.
Quote from: TopCat on February 03, 2016, 12:34:02 AM
I wonder this to. What the heck do you do all day? I would rather go to hell. At least he'll has those awful sinners. But at least they have air conditioning and science. Maybe the cure from cancer will come from a person in hell.
Yes, Hell is more exciting than Heaven. Heaven is like an old folks home. Have you spent time visiting someone in an old folks home? Of course there is the old joke ... a sinner was given a vision of Heaven, that was like an old folks home, people playing cards and discussing the good old days. The sinner was then shown a vision of Hell, that was like a big party with alcohol and girls/guys. So the sinner dies ... and wakes up in Hell. He is doing the molten lava backstroke with Gollum. The sinner complains that this isn't what he was shown. An angel comes down and informs him ... you saw the promo ;-)
Here is another story. In the Mahabarahta ... a hero dies and goes to Heaven. When he gets there, he finds that the villains he destroyed are in Heaven having a party. He is also told that the other heroes, his brothers, are in Hell. Very disillusioned, he then leaves Heaven voluntarily, and goes to Hell to keep solace with his brothers. The poet tells this, because this is the last illusion, that heroes are rewarded and villains are punished. Reality doesn't work like that.
Quote from: SGOS on October 24, 2015, 05:03:05 PM
I had a friend in college who saw the Devil. He was quite adamant after that the Devil was real. He saw it when he was on drugs too. Nothing like a good drug induced psychosis to make a believer out of you.
really? that's strange drug addiction did the opposite for me. Made me realize that I did all the work and there was no knight in shining armor coming to the rescue. I use to pray every day for god to save me from my drug addiction. He never did. I finally realized that I had to do it myself.
Quote from: doorknob on February 03, 2016, 07:10:27 AM
really? that's strange drug addiction did the opposite for me. Made me realize that I did all the work and there was no knight in shining armor coming to the rescue. I use to pray every day for god to save me from my drug addiction. He never did. I finally realized that I had to do it myself.
You are your own god. This is a good thing to know. The Buddha, when he was dying, told his disciples to be diligent in bringing about their own salvation.
Quote from: doorknob on February 03, 2016, 07:10:27 AM
really? that's strange drug addiction did the opposite for me. Made me realize that I did all the work and there was no knight in shining armor coming to the rescue. I use to pray every day for god to save me from my drug addiction. He never did. I finally realized that I had to do it myself.
How these spirit guided 12 step programs have escaped scientific scrutiny for the last 100 years is a testimony to man's despair, or his gullibility.
Quote from: SGOS on February 03, 2016, 07:54:30 AM
How these spirit guided 12 step programs have escaped scientific scrutiny for the last 100 years is a testimony to man's despair, or his gullibility.
100% couldn't agree with you more. I always thought 10% was such a low success rate that it was laughable. too bad no one's willing to put money into finding a real cure.
Quote from: SGOS on February 03, 2016, 07:54:30 AM
How these spirit guided 12 step programs have escaped scientific scrutiny for the last 100 years is a testimony to man's despair, or his gullibility.
Because if God is in it, it has to be good, even if it's bad, because God makes bad good. So even the bad is for your good. Or something.
People have very unimaginative scenarios about what to do in heaven. Apparently, the common scenario is het male sex fantasies: young beautiful virgins and worship more.
As they also believe they won't have 'the curse of the sin' anymore, I have no idea they can only think about 'sex-sex-sex'. But it explains a lot.
Quote from: drunkenshoe on February 05, 2016, 12:07:54 PM
People have very unimaginative scenarios about what to do in heaven. Apparently, the common scenario is het male sex fantasies: young beautiful virgins and worship more.
As they also believe they won't have 'the curse of the sin' anymore, I have no idea they can only think about 'sex-sex-sex'. But it explains a lot.
TBH the thought of having sex with a lot of dead and/or imaginary people doesn't really do it for me.
I'd like to think it'd be like exploring the universe or something similar to that. That'd be at least iinteresting.
Quote from: Unbeliever on January 28, 2016, 04:48:07 PM
(https://electsister777.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/feet.jpg?w=660)
the best women always start at the foot….
If all dogs go to heaven does that mean will be picking up dog poop for eternity? I have experience in that area.
Quote from: stromboli on February 06, 2016, 11:32:32 PM
If all dogs go to heaven does that mean will be picking up dog poop for eternity? I have experience in that area.
Cats are essential too ... Hell is a cat box. They don't like to dirty up Heaven ;-)
Quote from: stromboli on February 06, 2016, 11:32:32 PM
If all dogs go to heaven does that mean will be picking up dog poop for eternity? I have experience in that area.
Where as cats go to hell apparently, so it looks a lot neater, its just that cats know how to hide it a lot better.
Quote from: Fidel_Castronaut on February 06, 2016, 09:19:43 AM
TBH the thought of having sex with a lot of dead and/or imaginary people doesn't really do it for me.
I'd like to think it'd be like exploring the universe or something similar to that. That'd be at least iinteresting.
Hey, Fidel. *Waves.
Apparently, we also get to worship more. :lol:
Jesus suggested that we take out our eyes and cut off out hands to avoid sin in the Bible. So if no sin is completely forced in heaven, then I guess we'll be blind and unable to masturbate. I suppose it really isn't great like it says.
Shoe - in rabbinical Judaism, all the saved Jewish men get to go to yeshivah all day ... the more virtuous you are, the better rabbi you get to lecture you. The very best get Moses. The saved Jewish women, get to make lunch ;-))
Quote from: T7ven on February 11, 2016, 07:29:14 AM
Jesus suggested that we take out our eyes and cut off out hands to avoid sin in the Bible. So if no sin is completely forced in heaven, then I guess we'll be blind and unable to masturbate. I suppose it really isn't great like it says.
Supposedly the righteous in heave retain their scars from their martyrdom. And it is more Type-A if the maiming was self-maiming. You also have to realize that in traditional Jewish burial, you get reunited with your severed limbs/body parts ... they are kept around until your funeral ... maybe even your prepuce from your circumcision ;-) So in this shocking image said by Jesus ... that eye and that hand will be with you ... so show off with.
Paul on the other hand, dodged all this, and said we got spiritual bodies in place of our Earthly bodies ... because it was important that "body" = "form" you don't want to be formless like some cheap ghost. Any vacuum cleaner around would suck you up ;-) Later Christians however went back to the zombie model ... that people would arise from their physical graves, even the ocean, even as ashes (but this is why land burial was preferred to sea burial or cremation) and do the zombie apocalypse at the Last Judgement. This is why zombie movies are such Medieval treats. It is lame to show up at the zombie apocalypse, as a pile of ashes, rather than as a decayed worm eaten corpse.
Well, there is a huge divide between eastern and western Christianity on what our eternal fate is. In eastern Christianity (as well as in Judaism), there never developed belief in "original sin," which is a doctrine that became popular in the Latin-speaking western Christian world during the fourth and fifth centuries. While western Christianity (i.e., Catholicism and Protestantism) teaches that all suffer under original sin and hell is a "torture realm" for those still in original sin, eastern Christianity (The Orthodox Church) teaches that "Heaven" is theosis, or oneness, with God; the human species will re-harmonize with God.
Here's what shocks a lot of westerners. In Orthodox Christianity, heaven and hell are the same thing. God is seen as a "living fire who consumes all creation," to quote St. Paul. For the Orthodox, both the saved and the damned spend eternity in the fiery presence of God, but how this presence is experienced depends on the predisposition of the individual.
Many early church fathers compared the fire of God's presence to bright light. For the individual whose eyes have adjusted, the light is pleasant, but for the individual who's just awoken, the same light is painful.
Going back to original sin: The Orthodox Church rejects this doctrine. Instead, the human race is seen as being in disharmony with God. To quote St. Athanasius, "God became Man so that man might become God." Harmony with God, or theosis, is the end goal of all men, and when this is achieved through Christ at the end of time, eternity is spent growing deeper and closer to God.
Some Orthodox saints, such as Isaac of Syria, have even expressed belief that nobody will end up in hell, or that hell will be vanquished at the Second Coming. We in the west have a tendency to read the Bible with a very legalistic Catholic/Protestant mindset without realizing.
Not that it matters; it's all false.
My favorite thought experiment for theists: Think of the largest number you can possibly imagine. Lets use the lottery jackpot numbers since just about everyone likes to imagine that many dollars coming their way without any real work involved. Since we're in fantasy land lets say its a huge jackpot, maybe 500 million. Ok so picture that number in your head. Get a really good feel for how many dollars that really is and what those dollars would do for the remainder of your existence on this planet.
Now, take that number (500 million) and multiply it by itself. Then multiply the result by itself again. Then keep doing that until you've done it 500 million times and then try to imagine the number that results. Now here's the part where you expect me to say each one of those is an hour or a day or a year. But that's not what I'm going to say. Nope. Instead each and every one of those is a billion years. And now you begin to grasp just exactly what existing for all of eternity is like. Now what the fuck are you going to fill all that time with?
People buy into theism because they're terrified of the thought that this life on earth might be all there is. I opt out of theism because I'm terrified of the thought that this life on earth isn't all there is*.
*Ok that isn't really the reason I opt out of theism. But its a damn good reason to question what you choose to believe.
Aerobatics. I figure that's what the wings are for.
heaven is like Shang Tsung's Pit of Souls. The more souls he collects, the more powerful he becomes.
Quote from: drunkenshoe on February 05, 2016, 12:07:54 PM
People have very unimaginative scenarios about what to do in heaven. Apparently, the common scenario is het male sex fantasies: young beautiful virgins and worship more.
The Bible, itself, presents a very childish view of heaven: streets paved with gold, mansions for everyone, no bad stuff or negative feelings, jewels and gold all over the place. It's the sort of imaginary place that poor people would create, as they try to imagine what it would be like to be wealthy. The story of the rich man going to hell while Lazarus, the poor man who had nothing, goes to heaven for no other reason than because he was poor, confirms heaven as the poor man's revenge fantasy.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v690/androidlove/Richierichgems22_zpswu6addgs.jpg)
Quote from: T7ven on February 11, 2016, 07:29:14 AM
Jesus suggested that we take out our eyes and cut off out hands to avoid sin in the Bible. So if no sin is completely forced in heaven, then I guess we'll be blind and unable to masturbate. I suppose it really isn't great like it says.
There is sarcasm in the Bible. God basically is saying that there is far more enjoyment in heaven with various body parts missing than there is anywhere else with everything intact.
Quote from: LittleNipper on March 22, 2016, 12:18:31 AM
There is sarcasm in the Bible. God basically is saying that there is far more enjoyment in heaven with various body parts missing than there is anywhere else with everything intact.
Enjoyment from doing what?
Quote from: LittleNipper on March 22, 2016, 12:18:31 AM
There is sarcasm in the Bible. God basically is saying that there is far more enjoyment in heaven with various body parts missing than there is anywhere else with everything intact.
This is like a scene from Brave New World (at least as I remember it) of the lower caste working all day together, taken to dinner together when they eat and get soma, then to a movie, then back to bed only to rise and do it all again. And each and every one of them is very happy with life--content and satisfied. Much like the Nipper like christian thought. God will make heaven good by giving them all soma and brainwashing. And in that scene, I saw Nipper--yep--there he is, right in the middle to that group over there--happy as a clam and praising god.
Go for it Nipper!!!
Quote...the lower caste working all day together, taken to dinner together when they eat and get soma, then to a movie, then back to bed only to rise and do it all again.
This is pretty much what the working class does already... Except for dinner and a movie, because we can't afford it. :o[ I would hate to think of the afterlife being more of the same. In fact, if hell is real, maybe we're in it right now. Earth, itself, is hell, and we can only hope that there is some kind of relief after we're dead, even if it's only the final relief of blessed nothingness. I'm kinda hoping we get to pick our own afterlife. Like, if we want to live in a Harry Potter or Doctor Who universe, we can do that. :lol:
Quote from: ApostateLois on March 22, 2016, 11:40:24 AM
This is pretty much what the working class does already... Except for dinner and a movie, because we can't afford it. :o[ I would hate to think of the afterlife being more of the same. In fact, if hell is real, maybe we're in it right now. Earth, itself, is hell, and we can only hope that there is some kind of relief after we're dead, even if it's only the final relief of blessed nothingness. I'm kinda hoping we get to pick our own afterlife. Like, if we want to live in a Harry Potter or Doctor Who universe, we can do that. :lol:
I personally hope that there is an infinite number of universes, and that when we die, we're reborn into another. So sooner or later, we would end up in a universe similar to Harry Potter's. Solipsism, one idea I've had a strong suspicion is true, would allow for this, if the self is indeed the creator of its own reality.
Quote from: Blackleaf on March 22, 2016, 01:06:25 PM
I personally hope that there is an infinite number of universes, and that when we die, we're reborn into another. So sooner or later, we would end up in a universe similar to Harry Potter's. Solipsism, one idea I've had a strong suspicion is true, would allow for this, if the self is indeed the creator of its own reality.
Only if you are a good Quiddich seeker ;-)
Quote from: Mike Cl on March 22, 2016, 09:09:05 AM
This is like a scene from Brave New World (at least as I remember it) of the lower caste working all day together, taken to dinner together when they eat and get soma, then to a movie, then back to bed only to rise and do it all again. And each and every one of them is very happy with life--content and satisfied. Much like the Nipper like christian thought. God will make heaven good by giving them all soma and brainwashing. And in that scene, I saw Nipper--yep--there he is, right in the middle to that group over there--happy as a clam and praising god.
Go for it Nipper!!!
Unfortunately soma is only available for high caste Hindus ... so pray for reincarnation ;-)
I am in Heaven now. Don't ask me how much I like it though. I get to be a human being, I have fulfilling work to go to, a cat and an elderly mother to care for. The food and drink are pretty good ... and I live in the era when we have Internet.
Quote from: Baruch on March 22, 2016, 06:45:33 PM
Unfortunately soma is only available for high caste Hindus ... so pray for reincarnation ;-)
Yeah, but you can get skooma in Skyrim!
There's more sinners in heaven than in hell. Who wants to go to heaven anyway.
Quote from: TopCat on April 03, 2016, 01:58:53 PM
There's more sinners in heaven than in hell. Who wants to go to heaven anyway.
Exactly what happens at the end of the Mahabharata.
In Heaven, you have so much money, you can literally swim in it like Scrooge McDuck.
You know what I just realized? In Heaven there will be no sex. No boners. You'll never leave. It will be the same thing every day with no change. Everything you need will be provided for you. You'll have nothing to do all day but sit around, relax and entertain yourself. Heaven is a nursing home.
Quote from: Blackleaf on March 22, 2016, 01:06:25 PM
I personally hope that there is an infinite number of universes, and that when we die, we're reborn into another. So sooner or later, we would end up in a universe similar to Harry Potter's. Solipsism, one idea I've had a strong suspicion is true, would allow for this, if the self is indeed the creator of its own reality.
I think I could really enjoy living in Baron Munchausen's universe:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtdc4DOKXDY
Quote from: Baruch on March 22, 2016, 06:48:16 PM
I am in Heaven now. Don't ask me how much I like it though. I get to be a human being, I have fulfilling work to go to, a cat and an elderly mother to care for. The food and drink are pretty good ... and I live in the era when we have Internet.
Yeah, praise youtube! :great:
You must be me in a prior or future life ... we have both seen Robin Williams as the king of the moon in Baron Munchausen, and liked it. True lunacy that.
Quote from: Baruch on March 22, 2016, 06:48:16 PM
I am in Heaven now. Don't ask me how much I like it though. I get to be a human being, I have fulfilling work to go to, a cat and an elderly mother to care for. The food and drink are pretty good ... and I live in the era when we have Internet.
You know, I feel that way as well. At this point in my life I have very few regrets, I have caring family and friends, and I have no financial worries. It's great to be here, alive, and surprisingly healthy.
Quote from: Baruch on March 22, 2016, 06:48:16 PM
I am in Heaven now. Don't ask me how much I like it though. I get to be a human being, I have fulfilling work to go to, a cat and an elderly mother to care for. The food and drink are pretty good ... and I live in the era when we have Internet.
And don't forget Skyrim!
All of the things i'd want to spend eternity doing in heaven, are the very same things which would prevent me getting there in the first place. Put simply if an Angel is watching over each of us mine has probably carved out a stamp for wanking to save the getting RSI writing it down all the time.
This is my first post here so start as you mean to go on and all that :hi:
Quote from: MOO on April 07, 2016, 09:02:42 PM
All of the things i'd want to spend eternity doing in heaven, are the very same things which would prevent me getting there in the first place. Put simply if an Angel is watching over each of us mine has probably carved out a stamp for wanking to save the getting RSI writing it down all the time.
This is my first post here so start as you mean to go on and all that :hi:
Introduce yourself, oh cow-shark.
Some say when I go to heaven I will meet 72 virgins and I thought... what will I do in heaven with 72 virgins?. After the first four point five minutes... apparently nothing. At which point I understood I am not in heaven but more so hell.
Quote from: Fickle on April 10, 2016, 01:18:51 AM
Some say when I go to heaven I will meet 72 virgins and I thought... what will I do in heaven with 72 virgins?. After the first four point five minutes... apparently nothing. At which point I understood I am not in heaven but more so hell.
That is the point that the Muslims don't mention (Muhammad wasn't clear on this so don't blame him) ... is that having even two women in the same room can lead to trouble, let alone two or more sharing the same man. Sure, the women don't have to worry about being pregnant, because they are perpetual virgins.
Quote from: MOO on April 07, 2016, 09:02:42 PM
All of the things i'd want to spend eternity doing in heaven, are the very same things which would prevent me getting there in the first place. Put simply if an Angel is watching over each of us mine has probably carved out a stamp for wanking to save the getting RSI writing it down all the time.
This is my first post here so start as you mean to go on and all that :hi:
Hi MOO! :waving:
Maybe Father Guido Sarducci can explain about the wanking better than I can:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7ykYHwG5i4
My favorite priest!!
Quote from: Baruch on April 12, 2016, 07:09:33 PM
My favorite priest!!
I almost forgot about that guy. And I remember seeing that monologue live the first time. It seems like SNL used to have better comedians than what they have today. I used to laugh until my sides ached watching that program.
Maybe you just grew up and realized SNL is not really funny. I don't laugh at things generally unless it's like charlie the unicorn. No more mature I realize but not every one's humor is the same I guess. I never laugh at sitcoms or family guy. What normal people find as amusing generally comes off as stupid to me.
So welcome to my world.
Quote from: doorknob on April 13, 2016, 07:47:32 AM
Maybe you just grew up and realized SNL is not really funny.
I've wondered if that's what happened, but I think there's something else going on too. First, I used to think SNL was more edgy, although I think that about a lot of programs today. I watch some old reruns of Seinfeld, where they take on potentially offensive topics, and parody the Religious Right without mercy, and I think that hardly happens today. Second, the humor on SNL used to seem different than most California produced humor. I used to think of it as New York style, as opposed to Hollywood style. Now I don't see any difference between what's on SNL and what's coming from the West Coast. But because these were subtle differences (or imaginations), I've wondered if it was something I just read into it.
Quote from: doorknob on April 13, 2016, 07:47:32 AM
Maybe you just grew up and realized SNL is not really funny. I don't laugh at things generally unless it's like charlie the unicorn. No more mature I realize but not every one's humor is the same I guess. I never laugh at sitcoms or family guy. What normal people find as amusing generally comes off as stupid to me.
So welcome to my world.
Yeah, I grok ya (as Michael Valentine Smith would say--Stranger In A Strange Land). Sitcoms are not funny. The last time I laughed at a sitcom.................hmmm..........I don't remember; canned laughing drives me nuts. Let's see--I like to think I have a good strong sense of humor, so what is funny. Three Stooges, Calvin and Hobbs, The Far Side, some SNL. This---What normal people find as amusing generally comes off as stupid to me.
SNL was pretty edgy for its time. It's just that what passes for edgy keeps changing and it doesn't seem daring compared to what's going on now. But I hear ya on not finding it very funny the first time around. There were some brilliant moments, but I thought most of it was kinda dumb. I don't find most sit-coms funny, either. I'm more likely to enjoy British TV humor than American.