Eurislam (http://www.eurislam.eu/page=site.home)
QuoteEURISLAM is an European comparative research project that analyses how the incorporation of Islam in European Member States is influenced by national traditions of identity, citizenship and church-state relations. EURISLAM studies how these traditions have affected interactions between Muslim immigrants and their off-spring and the receiving society. Fieldwork is currently conducted in Belgium, France. Germany, the Netherlands, Switzerland and the UK.[/url]
QuoteIndicators on Islam
• Allowance of ritual animal slaughtering;
• Allowance of the Islamic call to prayer;
• The number of purpose built mosques with minarets (calculated per 100,000 Muslims);
• The existence of separate cemeteries or cemetery sections for Muslims;
• Allowance of burial without coffin;
• The number of state funded Islamic schools (calculated per 100,000 Muslims);
• The share of costs of Islamic schools that is covered by the state;
• Islamic religious classes in state schools;
• The right of female teachers to wear a headscarf;
• The right of female students in primary and secondary schools to wear a headscarf;
• Islamic religious programs in public broadcasting;
• Imams in the military;
• Imams in prisons;
• The existence and prerogatives of recognized Muslim consultative bodies.
QuoteThe reality of European Islam is very diverse
.
The differences are related to national, cultural, religious and linguistic elements; they definitely remain important. On the one hand, the ethnic frame of reference remains quite significant, or is on the way to becoming so. And the many distinctions between groups of European Muslims continue to matter even at the level of mosques, and associations in Europe. On the other hand, even the second and third generation of Muslims in Europe have not produced many trans-national Muslims
In reality, there is only one Islam, the one according to the Quran and hadits, the Islam that the immigrants have brought with them.
Domesticated "European" Islam does not exist. As they will find out.
Thanks for the link
pr126 - I think you worry too much. Europe killed G-d before, and can do it again ;-( Of course casualties will be inevitable ... but then everyone dies eventually anyway.
Sorry, but I play Muslim in Crusader Kings 2, and Europe will hear the word of the Prophet. Allahu Akbar! [emoji13]
Secretly a Warsie.
Quote from: Baruch on October 16, 2015, 11:23:46 PM
pr126 - I think you worry too much. Europe killed G-d before, and can do it again ;-( Of course casualties will be inevitable ... but then everyone dies eventually anyway.
Yes, you are right. Just get the popcorn and watch from your armchair on the TV. It will be just fine in the end.
but then everyone dies eventually anyway.Yes, I know.
I nearly did last year. Major heart surgery helped to keep me here a little while longer.
Quote from: pr126 on October 17, 2015, 12:33:20 AM
Yes, you are right. Just get the popcorn and watch from your armchair on the TV. It will be just fine in the end.
Do tell, what is your solution to the problem?
Quote from: Shiranu on October 17, 2015, 12:50:08 AM
Do tell, what is your solution to the problem?
Well there are some 70-year-old camps in Poland that could potentially be re-furbished and put back into use.[emoji57]
Secretly a Warsie.
Quote from: Shiranu on October 17, 2015, 12:50:08 AM
Do tell, what is your solution to the problem?
I do not have any.
Not all problems have solutions.
I can tell you this much. When Europe goes down the toilet, you are next. Then you can come up with a solution.
Quote from: pr126 on October 17, 2015, 12:54:57 AM
I do not have any.
Not all problems have solutions.
Then how is your armchair doomsday predictions any different?
Quote from: Shiranu on October 17, 2015, 12:55:53 AM
Then how is your armchair doomsday predictions any different?
I can see the problem ahead, where you cannot.
Quote from: pr126 on October 17, 2015, 12:59:29 AM
I can see the problem ahead, where you cannot.
Mmhmm.
(http://www.orthodoxroad.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/from-daily-record-blog.jpg)
Still doesn't make your armchair apocalypism any superiour to armchair watching.
Let's look at the list.
Quote• Allowance of ritual animal slaughtering;
• Allowance of the Islamic call to prayer;
• The number of purpose built mosques with minarets (calculated per 100,000 Muslims);
I don't get why these are problems. Why did they make those laws of freedom of religion? Freedom of religion doesn't count just for Christianity or Judaism. You either have it or don't. If you tell one group they cannot have their way, while the other can...then you are looking for serious conflict and trouble, extreme reactions.
Mosques can be build according to communities. Like Churches. If state does that then they can control and regulate it.
Quote• The existence of separate cemeteries or cemetery sections for Muslims;
I don't get this either. We have Christian cemetaries. Actually we have special cemetaries as Greek Cemetaries and Armenian Cemetaries given to minorities so they could bury their people. They are really old.
They have been mostly used as a weapon in politcial disputes. If I am not mistaken they are being returned one by one to their communities in last years.
Quote• Allowance of burial without coffin;
I actually like this tradition in Islam. It's probably the best it has. I personally find being burried with a coffin with make up wearing clothes that will out live my body decades as tainting the earth.
No, not everybody wants to get cremated. And we cannot tell people what to do with their bodies after they are dead, doesn't matter how silly it sounds to us nonbelievers.
For example, I am planning to be a cadavre. I really don't give a fuck what happens to my body after I'm dead, as long as it is useful to somebody. The idea of their corpse being cut by medical students makes some people wince. And I find that funny. But I cannot tell them what to do with theirs. It's stupid.
Quote• The number of state funded Islamic schools (calculated per 100,000 Muslims);
• The share of costs of Islamic schools that is covered by the state;
• Islamic religious classes in state schools;
:exclaim: The is is the most important one and it is a very good idea; it comes with its own solution. Esp. the state financing these schools. You know why, BECAUSE THEN the European states CAN CONTROL these schools from their curriculums to who and at what age should they attend.
And so they could prevent -BAN- private ones financed by extremist muslim leaders living in overseas. That would be a very good lawful barrier to dig up and hunt the underground religious islamic schools. Best excuse.
Religoius classes in state schools are bound with other laws in UK, so it is prety ridiculous, I don't see anything to discuss there.
Quote• The right of female teachers to wear a headscarf;
I don't see nothing wrong with this. You cannot tell people what they should wear. For any reason. If a woman covering her head disturbs you, this is something about you, not about her. Majority of those women not just have a problem with it they also DEFEND IT passionately, you westerners need to nail this into your heads. They don't see the world as you do. If you talked to them you would experience this.
Having said that, there could be made some hotlines for women of any age who are forced to covertheir head or wear a burka.
Quote• The right of female students in primary and secondary schools to wear a headscarf;
Should be banned. And that could be done by European state intervening with islamic religious schools; as said by regulating, financing and allowing them.
What's more, an Islamic argument can be done and supported against this. As you know a lot about Islam and Quran I am sure, you know what I am talking about.
Quote• Islamic religious programs in public broadcasting;
I don't see why not? Are there religious programs for other religions in public broadcasting? Probably. So putting Islam in the mix just helps controlling it, preserve a mainstream moderate approach.
Quote• Imams in the military;
• Imams in prisons;
Military sounds stupid. However, don't forget that
Islam spreads the fastest in prisons. If you put imams that will be regulated and answer to the state -like social service- you are again one step ahead of extremism.Quote• The existence and prerogatives of recognized Muslim consultative bodies.
Same logic goes here. There are many muslims in Europe who are aware that their community should reform to preserve their safety. So nothing difficult to do. Again build a community you can control and closely observe, follow. 'Standardise' Islam. Make laws for it.
See, everything in that list can be turned into some SOLUTION by European governments, IF they can get their arrogant ass down to ground from clouds and treat these minorities as real people; regulate and change their laws. This should have been done decades ago.
While the first rule for secularism is the seperation of state and religion, the second one is that state intervening to religious instutions in the society. You cannot just take millions of people from a different culture as workers and then expect them NOT TO HAVE AN IMPACT at your culture at some point.
They will have to take these people seriously and treat them as real European people, IF they really want to stop Islamic extremism. There is no other way. The sooner they act the better.
Ouch.
QuoteYou cannot just take millions of people from a different culture as workers and then expect them NOT TO HAVE AN IMPACT at your culture at some point.
These migrants are not invited "workers".
There is a huge unemployment problem in Europe already.
Most of the migrants are unemployable, without any skills or the host countries language.
The majority will live on welfare until the financial collapse, then crime.
Plunder from the kuffar is lawful. See chapter 8 in the Quran.
Quote from: pr126 on October 17, 2015, 03:13:15 AM
These migrants are not invited workers.
Yes they are. When they are doing the menial jobs, white European born Europeans don't want to do, they are fine. But when they want an identity and recogniition, they are invading; they are a big threat, the end is nigh!
They are also LEGAL. (Illegal ones are irrelevant to our subject anyway.)
You -as the majority of UK- have an unbelivable distorted view on migrants. Because, unfortunately it fits the general culture and constantly heated and hyped up by the media. This gives way to chuck it up every unsolved problem in the country to the migrant problem. And that's bullshit and it is bad for you.
QuoteThere is a huge unemployment problem in Europe already.
Yeah there is. However, a serious part of unemployment in Europe is coming from Europeans NOT wanting to work in certain jobs. Majority of the population -esp. the young generations- want white collar good paying jobs they cannot have. And they do not wnat to do a lot of jobs. Of course nothing wrong with desiring to have something like that. As long as you get how delusional it is.
If you have a good education and credentials you can have those jobs. One of our members here from UK is a good example. He studied his ass off graduated from a univ -engineering- and got a good job.
Also, you need to consider the differences beetween how UK AND Europe regards immigrants. UK is culturally one of the worst places in Europe to be an immigrant. First of all it is an island. Its culture is based on class difference far more than other European countries that hosts bigger minority groups from opposite cultures AND a very different kind of 'national' hierarchic class exists.
They cannot come over their own cultural problems of Scottish-Welsh vs English, let alone different minorities.
QuoteMost of the migrants are unemployable, without any skills or the host countries language.
The majority will live on welfare until the financial collapse, then crime.
Plunder from the kuffar is lawful. See chapter 8 in the Quran.
:arrow: I don't know which is more alarming. That you are conflicting yourself with saying that most of these people are unemployable and so get welfare -you get that people need food and shelter right?- OR after 2 lines claiming that they are doing it to plunder the kuffar, because it is lawful in their holly book?
How much do immigrants really claim in benefits?http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/11255425/How-much-do-immigrants-really-claim-in-benefits.html
QuoteThe Prime Minister has put restricting benefits to migrants from the European Union at the heart of his renegotiation strategy.
But let’s have a look at the numbers: how many of those who receive welfare payments are EU migrants?
Between 2008 and 2013, the number of EU working age benefit claimants doubled from 65,000 to 130,000.
Data in a House of Commons Library briefing note released on earlier in October show that the majority of non-UK working age benefit claimants are still from outside the EU. And of course, the vast majority of claimants are British.
The charts above and below show that EU claimants are the smallest group receiving either working age benefits or tax credits.
The data from the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) and HMRC, also show that the majority of welfare recipients are British.
In 2014, 4.9 million (92.6 per cent) working age benefit claimants were British while only 131,000 (2.5 per cent) were EU nationals. The number of recipients from outside of the UK â€" but not from the EU â€" was 264,000 (five per cent).
Likewise, in the latest data from 2013 for those tax credits, 3.9 million (84.8 per cent) families receiving the benefits were British citizens, 302,000 (6.4 per cent) were EU citizens and 413,000 (8.8 per cent) were from outside of the UK.
But the data do show that among single families receiving either working family tax credit or childs tax credit, the majority of within non-UK claimants are from the EU: 157,600 single families from the EU receive one or both of the benefits while 146,000 of those from outside of the EU do.
Jonathan Portes, directer of the National Institute of Economic and Social Research, explained why EU migrants would receive tax credits in the Observer: “Many migrants from the EU … are in low-paid work (including self-employment) and so receive tax credits; as the numbers settling here permanently have grown, and they start having kids, this has become quite a significant phenomenon.â€
According to the Roderick McInnes, author of the Commons Library analysis, it is important to note when looking at the data that it does not offer a “complete picture†as the numbers are based on individuals who were not UK nationals when they applied for National Insurance. They could have since applied for British citizenship.
Between 2008 and 2014, the number of benefit claimants increased by more than 130,000. The total number of migrants receiving working age benefits also increased in the last five years from 288,000 in 2008 to 395,000.
But only 113,700 EU migrants were on key out-of-work benefits in February this year of which only 65,000 were on Jobseeker’s Allowance (JSA). In February, more than 1.1 million were unemployed although the DWP said last month the figure dropped to below a million for the whole of the UK.
What does this all mean? It suggests that whatever the arguments for and against reducing the number of EU migrants receiving British benefits, delivering such a reduction wouldn’t make a significant difference to the overall welfare bill which is estimated to be £208 billion for the year 2013-14. And seeing as the take-up of benefits among migrants is so small, it’s also worth asking how big of a draw Britain’s welfare system really is.
:arrow: On the other hand...Britons LOVE benefits AND welfare.
Revealed: thousands of Britons on benefits across EUhttp://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/jan/19/-sp-thousands-britons-claim-benefits-eu
Quote- At least 30,000 Britons on unemployment benefit in EU, Guardian research shows
- Unemployed Britons in richer EU states outnumber claimants from those countries in UK
- Helen Pidd searches for the only Briton in Poland claiming benefits
Unemployed Britons in Europe are drawing much more in benefits and allowances in the wealthier EU countries than their nationals are claiming in the UK, despite the British government’s arguments about migrants flocking in to the country to secure better welfare payments.
At least 30,000 British nationals are claiming unemployment benefit in countries around the EU, research by the Guardian has found, based on responses from 23 of the 27 other EU countries.
The research shows more than four times as many Britons obtain unemployment benefits in Germany as Germans do in the UK, while the number of jobless Britons receiving benefits in Ireland exceeds their Irish counterparts in the UK by a rate of five to one.
There are not only far more Britons drawing benefits in these countries than vice versa, but frequently the benefits elsewhere in Europe are much more generous than in the UK. A Briton in France receives more than three times as much as a jobless French person in the UK.
The research is being published after the German chancellor, Angela Merkel, visited London this month for talks with the prime minister, David Cameron, who is campaigning to “reform†EU freedom of movement as part of his attempt to rewrite the terms of Britain’s EU membership before putting the issue to a referendum in 2017, if he is still in power.
In Finland, Sweden, Denmark, Belgium, Luxembourg, Germany, Austria, France and Ireland the number of Britons banking unemployment cheques is almost three times as high as the nationals of those countries receiving parallel UK benefits â€" 23,011 Britons to 8,720 nationals of those nine countries in the UK.
The findings highlight a more nuanced and complex picture across Europe than the simplistic version painted by anti-immigration and anti-EU campaigners led by Ukip and elements in the Conservative party.
About 2.5% of Britons in other EU countries are claiming unemployment benefits â€" the same level as the roughly 65,000 EU nationals claiming jobseeker’s allowance in the UK.
Dr Roxana Barbulescu, researcher on international migration at the University of Sheffield, said the numbers claiming unemployment benefits were minuscule. “Thirty thousand people, or 2.5% of all British nationals, in other EU member states means that the overwhelming majority of Brits abroad as well as European citizens in Britain are not an undue burden for the countries in which they live.â€
The data shows an east-west split in the pattern of Britons benefiting from often more generous unemployment payments, as well as a north-south divide.
The picture is quite different for the poorer east European countries which have joined the EU over the past decade, with hardly any Britons drawing unemployment benefits in those countries.
In search of the only Briton in Poland claiming benefits
The figures for nationals of those 10 east European countries drawing jobseeker’s allowance in the UK remain modest, despite the periodical outcries about “benefits tourismâ€. There are only about 1,000 Romanians and 500 Bulgarians, for example, drawing jobseeker’s allowance in Britain, according to the Department for Work and Pensions. Of the almost 30,000 Britons on unemployment benefits in other EU countries, only 62 are in the 10 countries that have joined since 2004.
The pattern of Britons being treated generously in Scandinavia and northern Europe goes into reverse around the poorer south, with Italians, Spanish and Portuguese out of work in the UK outnumbering the unemployed Britons in those countries by 13,580 to 5,670.
But, with the number of Britons in Spain three times that of Spaniards in Britain, and given the demographic differences between these two groups of migrants, the pressure on Spain’s finances is most likely to be on its health service.
The data appears to belie British complaints amplified in the PM’s speech on immigration in November in which he demanded curbs on freedom of movement in the EU and new measures discriminating between natives and EU citizens in low-paid work, adding that the UK was getting a raw deal from the EU system of citizenship rights and reciprocal social security arrangements.
Jean-Claude Juncker, the European commission president, told the Guardian in December that Cameron could tinker with British law on social security and migrant rights, but that enshrining discrimination in EU law was a no-go area.
British officials concede that the government may have run up against the limits of what it can accomplish with domestic legislation and would need changes at EU level.
Merkel, the most powerful politician in the EU, has made plain to Cameron what senior diplomats in Brussels describe as her “red lines†â€" the untouchability of freedom of movement.
“It’s going to be a very, very hard act [for Cameron] to pull off,†said a diplomat. “The Germans have set their red lines. Others are saying: ‘We’re not changing things just to suit [Britain].’â€
Mediation of the British issue will fall to Donald Tusk, who chairs EU summits. The former Polish prime minister will be less than keen to agree concessions affecting the many Poles in Britain â€" at 15,000, the biggest single EU nationality drawing UK jobseeker’s allowance, against just two Britons recorded as receiving Polish unemployment benefit. The task will get harder in 2015 if, as many predict, JarosÅ,aw KaczyÅ,,ski â€" a chippy, bristling rightwing nationalist â€" becomes Poland’s prime minister.
Commenting on the Guardian findings, the EU commissioner for justice, consumers and gender equality, VÄ•ra Jourová, said: “Free movement of our citizens is essential to the European Union. It is a fundamental right and an asset to our union. Free movement of people â€" to work, live and travel in other EU countries â€" is at the core of having a strong single market and it benefits our economy and society. Abuse weakens free movement. Therefore, member states need to tackle abuse decisively where it happens and EU rules provide the tools to do this.â€
The data on those receiving unemployment benefit across the EU is just one small snapshot of the immigration and free movement issue. The different countries’ welfare systems vary hugely, complicating efforts at comparison. The payouts offer an approximate equivalent enabling rough comparisons.
According to government figures, there are 2.7 million EU nationals in Britain and 1.3 million UK citizens living elsewhere in the EU.
tl;dr
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIcltV7r-nM
Awww.
pr:
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/51/67/03/5167032b9bfb56cbd6feec8f30d1c010.jpg)
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-qFVPYwf55fQ/Ury5ZZhRJOI/AAAAAAAAE2s/JguKJ1_p1EE/s1600/bird-flip.jpg)
Quote from: pr126 on October 17, 2015, 04:31:31 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIcltV7r-nM
How true are these allegations? I don't live in Europe. I haven't travelled there since 2008, so I have no idea of what's going on. That there would be flares between the new arrivals and their hosts is quite understandable, but how widespread are those crimes which is claimed in that video?
Search Youtube, blogs. The MSM will not report everything.
If I post any, I will be accused of posting biased "right wing" sources.
Quote from: pr126 on October 17, 2015, 04:52:44 AM
Search Youtube, blogs. The MSM will not report everything.
If I post any, I will be accused of posting biased "right wing" sources.
Forget about the Islamic apologists on this forum. They have little credibility. Keep posting whatever you find.
QuoteForget about the Islamic apologists on this forum. They have little credibility.
Little credibility?
You must be joking. They are the establishment, the media, the academia they are running the country. -
(into the ground)
Quote from: josephpalazzo on October 17, 2015, 04:56:41 AM
Forget about the Islamic apologists on this forum. They have little credibility. Keep posting whatever you find.
Aww. You don't get to call anyone an 'Islamic apologist' just because what they put out there disturbs your masturbation sweety.
pr, has been posting the same videos over and over again for a long time now. Every time he does, he gets his ass handed to him and then starts to act like a toddler slapped around. So he is much like a member from the senile old men spending his time quota. He earned that place. But I just realised, actually he is serving to highlight the bullshit of people like you.
pr, claims his country is going to bankrupcy because of migrants keep claiming welfare. It's a fucking lie. They are a small group in UK welfare claimants and it has no effect on welfare budget.
On the other hand, Britons alone are the biggest welfare and benefit getting group in the EU. But if you ask them, they are above the EU and oh they want out. Pffft.
Pat Condell's propaganda hold this much truth:
This is the reason lying under the so called 'Swedish rape epidemic':
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-19592372
QuoteThe Julian Assange extradition case has put Sweden's relatively high incidence of rape under the spotlight. But can such statistics be reliably compared from one country to another?
Which two countries are the kidnapping capitals of the world?
Australia and Canada.
Official figures from the United Nations show that there were 17 kidnaps per 100,000 people in Australia in 2010 and 12.7 in Canada.
That compares with only 0.6 in Colombia and 1.1 in Mexico.
So why haven't we heard any of these horror stories? Are people being grabbed off the street in Sydney and Toronto, while the world turns a blind eye?
No, the high numbers of kidnapping cases in these two countries are explained by the fact that parental disputes over child custody are included in the figures.
If one parent takes a child for the weekend, and the other parent objects and calls the police, the incident will be recorded as a kidnapping, according to Enrico Bisogno, a statistician with the United Nations.
Comparing crime rates across countries is fraught with difficulties - this is well known among criminologists and statisticians, less so among journalists and commentators.
Sweden has the highest rape rate in Europe, author Naomi Wolf said on the BBC's Newsnight programme recently. She was commenting on the case of Julian Assange, the Wikileaks founder who is fighting extradition from the UK to Sweden over rape and sexual assault allegations that he denies.
More stories from More or Less
Is it true? Yes. The Swedish police recorded the highest number of offences - about 63 per 100,000 inhabitants - of any force in Europe, in 2010. The second-highest in the world.
This was three times higher than the number of cases in the same year in Sweden's next-door neighbour, Norway, and twice the rate in the United States and the UK. It was more than 30 times the number in India, which recorded about two offences per 100,000 people.
On the face of it, it would seem Sweden is a much more dangerous place than these other countries.
But that is a misconception, according to Klara Selin, a sociologist at the National Council for Crime Prevention in Stockholm. She says you cannot compare countries' records, because police procedures and legal definitions vary widely.
"In Sweden there has been this ambition explicitly to record every case of sexual violence separately, to make it visible in the statistics," she says.
"So, for instance, when a woman comes to the police and she says my husband or my fiance raped me almost every day during the last year, the police have to record each of these events, which might be more than 300 events. In many other countries it would just be one record - one victim, one type of crime, one record."
The thing is, the number of reported rapes has been going up in Sweden - it's almost trebled in just the last seven years. In 2003, about 2,200 offences were reported by the police, compared to nearly 6,000 in 2010.
So something's going on.
But Klara Selin says the statistics don't represent a major crime epidemic, rather a shift in attitudes. The public debate about this sort of crime in Sweden over the past two decades has had the effect of raising awareness, she says, and encouraging women to go to the police if they have been attacked.
The police have also made efforts to improve their handling of cases, she suggests, though she doesn't deny that there has been some real increase in the number of attacks taking place - a concern also outlined in an Amnesty International report in 2010.
"There might also be some increase in actual crime because of societal changes. Due to the internet, for example, it's much easier these days to meet somebody, just the same evening if you want to. Also, alcohol consumption has increased quite a lot during this period.
"But the major explanation is partly that people go to the police more often, but also the fact that in 2005 there has been reform in the sex crime legislation, which made the legal definition of rape much wider than before."
If I punch somebody and the person eventually dies, some countries can consider that as an intentional murder, others as a manslaughter
Enrico Bisogno, UN statistician
The change in law meant that cases where the victim was asleep or intoxicated are now included in the figures. Previously they'd been recorded as another category of crime.
So an on-the-face-of-it international comparison of rape statistics can be misleading.
Botswana has the highest rate of recorded attacks - 92.9 per 100,000 people - but a total of 63 countries don't submit any statistics, including South Africa, where a survey three years ago showed that one in four men questioned admitted to rape.
In 2010, an Amnesty International report highlighted that sexual violence happens in every single country, and yet the official figures show that some countries like Hong Kong and Mongolia have zero cases reported.
Evidently, women in some countries are much less likely to report an attack than in others and are much less likely to have their complaint recorded.
UN statistician Enrico Bisogno says surveys suggest that as few as one in 10 cases are ever reported to the police, in many countries.
"We often present the situation as kind of an iceberg where really what we can see is just the tip while the rest is below the sea level. It remains below the radar of the law enforcement agencies," he says.
Naomi Wolf has also written that Sweden has the lowest conviction rate in Europe.
She was relying on statistics from a nine-year-old report, which calculated percentage conviction rates based on the number of offences recorded by the police and the number of convictions. But this is a problematic way of analysing statistics, as several offences could be committed by one person.
Police car in Sweden
Swedish police encourage rape victims to come forward
The United Nations holds official statistics on the number of convictions for rape per 100,000 people and actually, by that measure, Sweden has the highest number of convictions per capita in Europe, bar Russia. In 2010, 3.7 convictions were achieved per 100,000 population.
Though it's still the case, as Wolf pointed out to the BBC, that women in Sweden report a high number of offences - and only a small number of rapists are punished.
So there's a lot that official statistics don't tell us. They certainly don't reveal the real number of rapes that happen in Sweden, or any other country. And they don't give a clear view of which countries have worse crime rates than others.
Rape is particularly complex, but you'd think it would be straightforward to analyse murder rates across different countries - just count up the dead bodies, and compare and contrast.
If only, says Enrico Bisogno. "For example, if I punch somebody and the person eventually dies, some countries can consider that as an intentional murder, others as a manslaughter. Or in some countries, dowry killings are coded separately because there is separate legislation."
What's more, a comparison of murder rates between developed and less developed countries may tell you as much about health as crime levels, according to Professor Chris Lewis, a criminologist from Portsmouth University in the UK.
The statistics are to some unknown degree complicated by the fact that you're more likely to survive an attack in a town where you're found quickly and taken to a hospital that's well-equipped.
LOL Shoe, you shure know how to make friends and influence people. Way to go.
Quote from: drunkenshoe on October 17, 2015, 06:30:01 AM
Aww. You don't get to call anyone an 'Islamic apologist' just because what they put out there disturbs your masturbation sweety.
When was the last time you ever said anything against Islam? OTOH, I have attacked Islam, Christianity and any religious bogus that has appeared on this forum. So tell me, why should Islam be treated any differently?
Quote from: pr126 on October 17, 2015, 06:34:44 AM
LOL Shoe, you shure know how to make friends and influence people. Way to go.
Who told you I'm out ot make friends?
Next time, insulting a believer right away in your first post about his mental capacity, try to remember your own.
Quote from: josephpalazzo on October 17, 2015, 06:37:56 AM
When was the last time you ever said anything against Islam? OTOH, I have attacked Islam, Christianity and any religious bogus that has appeared on this forum. So tell me, why should Islam be treated any differently?
Thanks for proving my point. I do not have to attack anyone to CRITICISE their religious vision or the delusion they live in. I can do 10 times more damage than underlying the simple real life reasons and facts behind their superstition, instead of getting into some crass, hatred full rat race, citing their holly book which they have no idea about or firing my mouth to them for their cultural traits.
I also do not attack Christians or Jews or Buddhists..etc. OR their religions. Attacking some magical fairy tale and expressing hatred is about the worst thing you can do against religion. It doesn't produce anything, radicalise people and most importantly, it is not criticism, if you can wrap your head around anthropology and every other related fields 101. It's just jerking off and anonymously pouring your hatred to feel good.
I also certainly do not feel the need to make a SHOW on my nonbeliever position to get approval from you -or anyone else for that matter- to feel in the 'club'. I'm 40, not 15. I have been a nonbeliever as long as I have known myself, because it is the only rational and neutral positioin, not because I felt hatred to muslim or christians or other religious groups. I can interpret and evaluate information and knowledge, think about it myself AND come to a conclusion independently from the herd.
I cannot get satisfied with spewing toxic anger, hyping/lying; masturbating with how one religion is the cause of the world problems. If I could, I probably would. Must be a pink, happy existence. I live in a muslim country, none of you could do it better than me and feel as righteous about it. I would be pretty much liked here I guess, eh?
But it is not real, it is a fucking delusion and it is useless. It's just masturbation. Fap fap fap.
You have a lot of anger there, Drunkenshoe.
If you do not like my posts, you have a few options.
I will not change my views, far too old for that. If you are trying to "teach" me, you are wasting your time.
Naturally we have different world views, we can share them without name calling, or insults that you are so freely distributing.
If you think that the crowd here are of lesser intellect, and they are beneath you, then perhaps this forum is not for you.
Unless you enjoy kicking people in the nuts (figuratively speaking) as a pastime.
Calm down and try to be less obnoxious.
Quote from: drunkenshoe on October 17, 2015, 07:03:14 AM
Thanks for proving my point.
I haven't proved your point, and you haven't answered my question.
QuoteI do not have to attack anyone to CRITICISE their religious vision or the delusion they live in. I can do 10 times more damage than underlying the simple real life reasons and facts behind their superstition, instead of getting into some crass, hatred full rat race, citing their holly book which they have no idea about or firing my mouth to them for their cultural traits.
That doesn't answer my question.
Also, I did write that I've attacked Islam, Christianity... and NOT "attack someone", which you seem to imply. Attacking an ideology is not an attack on the person, but that's exactly what Muslims do, if you attack their religion they see it as a personal attack, and you do exactly that. You see an attack on Islam you automatically presume it is an attack on Muslims.
QuoteI also do not attack Christians or Jews or Buddhists..etc. OR their religions. Attacking some magical fairy tale and expressing hatred is about the worst thing you can do against religion. It doesn't produce anything, radicalise people and most importantly, it is not criticism, if you can wrap your head around anthropology and every other related fields 101. It's just jerking off and anonymously pouring your hatred to feel good.
That doesn't answer my question.
I disagree. Attacking the absurdity on which any religion is founded needs to be done, over and over. Otherwise, you'll get crushed by the fucking morons who will not hesitate in using political power to silence you.
QuoteI also certainly do not feel the need to make a SHOW on my nonbeliever position to get approval from you -or anyone else for that matter- to feel in the 'club'. I'm 40, not 15. I have been a nonbeliever as long as I have known myself, because it is the only rational and neutral positioin, not because I felt hatred to muslim or christians or other religious groups. I can interpret and evaluate information and knowledge, think about it myself AND come to a conclusion independently from the herd.
That doesn't answer my question.
Again, you are confusing between attacking an ideology with personal attacks.
QuoteI cannot get satisfied with spewing toxic anger, hyping/lying; masturbating with how one religion is the cause of the world problems. If I could, I probably would. Must be a pink, happy existence. I live in a muslim country, none of you could do it better than me and feel as righteous about it. I would be pretty much liked here I guess, eh?
But it is not real, it is a fucking delusion and it is useless. It's just masturbation. Fap fap fap.
Still that doesn't answer my question.
So if you can't do it, nobody else can. Wow, we are really in shit trouble.
Quote from: pr126 on October 17, 2015, 07:22:38 AM
You have a lot of anger there, Drunkenshoe.
If you do not like my posts, you have a few options.
I will not change my views, far too old for that. If you are trying to "teach" me, you are wasting your time.
Naturally we have different world views, we can share them without name calling, or insults that you are so freely distributing.
If you think that the crowd here are of lesser intellect, and they are beneath you, then perhaps this forum is not for you.
Unless you enjoy kicking people in the nuts (figuratively speaking) as a pastime.
Calm down and try to be less obnoxious.
Oh no, you are trying to 'teach' people. By preaching. I insulted your intellect -specifically- not the crowd. Stop acting as if you are presenting some sound, common opinion here.
I will get obnoxious as the next poster when somebody posts a thread and then respond wth tl;dr for a text when get refuted to on his ass and acts like a cry baby.
I was respond perfectly normal to your bullshit before you and joseph started to act like cry babies. So, stop playing the victim.
Quote from: drunkenshoe on October 17, 2015, 09:23:07 AM
So, stop playing the victim.
... says the stubborn Islamic apologist...:lol:
Quote from: josephpalazzo on October 17, 2015, 07:25:23 AM
I haven't proved your point, and you haven't answered my question.
Also, I did write that I've attacked Islam, Christianity... and NOT "attack someone", which you seem to imply. Attacking an ideology is not an attack on the person, but that's exactly what Muslims do, if you attack their religion they see it as a personal attack, and you do exactly that. You see an attack on Islam you automatically presume it is an attack on Muslims.
That doesn't answer my question.
Yes, I have answered your questions. Buıt you cannot get it, because you don't understand the difference. Just like many others in the forum.
I have written tons of posts -among over 8000 posts- here in years, from how islam uses what to get people, what a kind of a 'logic' is used behind what to get what to misconceptions of understanding this culture and missing the rel danger about islam. Those specific posts were all written to a subject, completely free of rant. Just for explanation. Things you cannot read in books.
Nnobody, BUT NOBODY, wants to read or discuss something along those lines.
Like you and others, all everybody wants to do is quoting bunch of books and to 'kick ass' of some believers who wandered here and win a competition, get likes. This has nothing to do with these subject, but what the posters desire. It's completely about THEIR EGO and what they desire to see.
It has nothing to with reality.
QuoteI disagree. Attacking the absurdity on which any religion is founded needs to be done, over and over. Otherwise, you'll get crushed by the fucking morons who will not hesitate in using political power to silence you.
And you are supporting that in an atheist forum in front of your computer?
QuoteAgain, you are confusing between attacking an ideology with personal attacks.
No, you are confusing criticising and attacking. Sitting in front a computer and spewing hatred is not critcising anything. It's stroking your cock. Is it clear now?
QuoteSo if you can't do it, nobody else can. Wow, we are really in shit trouble.
You got THAT from the last part?! *Whistles. Being embarassed in behalf of another is what I am feeling right now.
Yeah, everything I said flew over your head. What a big surprise. That should teach me about trying to explain something sincerely to someone who cannot wrap his head around what is going on beyond where he lives. When you are talking about certain subjects you are running from fallacy to fallacy, you don't have a shred of intellectual honesty to go on with something that points the opposite of your convictions and generally you sound like solid right winger. Frankly, when you step out of your own field, you are just an American idiot. Well, that's all.
Quote from: josephpalazzo on October 17, 2015, 09:26:52 AM
... says the stubborn Islamic apologist...:lol:
And also you are not observant a bit.
pr has a record of playing a victim role in the forum, claiming that his opinion is 'oppressed', when he is used as a chew toy a bit too often in a certain period of time. So he probably got it - while will never admit it- even if you didn't.
You are so sexy when you are white knighting oppressed white Europeans. Mwah :lol:
Quote from: drunkenshoe on October 17, 2015, 09:55:33 AM
Yes, I have answered your questions.
No you didn't as you can't answer why Islam should be treated differently. You know very well that Islam is just another religion, and show be treated no different than Christianity or any other religion. But as a staunch Islamic apologist, you try to deflect that question as you can't answer it.
QuoteI have written tons of posts -among over 8000 posts- here in years,
Funny, your post count is around 1700. Even if it's true you posted 8000 times, do you expect me to read them all? Do I expect you read my 16,000 posts? Get real.
Quotefrom how islam uses what to get people, what a kind of a 'logic' is used behind what to get what to misconceptions of understanding this culture and missing the rel danger about islam.
Obviously, you haven't explained that very well, assume that you did, which I doubt it very much. I suspect that any of your explanations were more of the same drivel - "Islam is different, only I understand it". If you so understand Islam, then impress me with your knowledge and expertise. Don't brag about it.
QuoteThose specific posts were all written to a subject, completely free of rant. Just for explanation. Things you cannot read in books.
Nnobody, BUT NOBODY, wants to read or discuss something along those lines.
Which posts are those? The 5300 ghost posts you made allusion before?
QuoteLike you and others, all everybody wants to do is quoting bunch of books and to 'kick ass' of some believers who wandered here and win a competition, get likes.
If it is such exercise in futility, as you seem to imply, then why are posting in this forum?
QuoteThis has nothing to do with these subject, but what the posters desire. It's completely about THEIR EGO and what they desire to see.
Are you a psychologist? If you are just interested in the motivations of posters, and you already know why members of AF are posting, what are you doing here? Just to confirm your bias disposition?
QuoteAnd you are supporting that in an atheist forum in front of your computer?
No. I'm flying an F-35.
QuoteNo, you are confusing criticising and attacking. Sitting in front a computer and spewing hatred is not critcising anything.
Hmm, maybe your English needs some upgrading, but my use of the word "attack" here is not meant in the physical sense. BTW, the hatred that you feel is exactly what Muslims feel when their religion is attacked. That you express the same rage is no coincidence.
QuoteYeah, everything I said flew over your head. What a big surprise. That should teach me about trying to explain something sincerely to someone who cannot wrap his head around what is going on beyond where he lives.
I've got you figured to a T.
QuoteWhen you are talking about certain subjects you are running from fallacy to fallacy, you don't have a shred of intellectual honesty to go on with something that points the opposite of your convictions...
You wouldn't recognize a fallacy even if it would be staring at you.
Quoteand generally you sound like solid right winger.
FYI, a right winger wouldn't post this
http://atheistforums.com/index.php?topic=8454.msg1098479#msg1098479
Or a thread like this:
http://atheistforums.com/index.php?topic=8483.msg1094940#msg1094940
Quote from: pr126 on October 17, 2015, 12:33:20 AM
Yes, you are right. Just get the popcorn and watch from your armchair on the TV. It will be just fine in the end.
but then everyone dies eventually anyway.Yes, I know.
I nearly did last year. Major heart surgery helped to keep me here a little while longer.
I knew a woman, online, from Australia who worries about Muslims like you do. She really can't do anything about Muslims coming to Australia ... and I was always was afraid she would have an aneurism over it. Now it might be fatalistic, and I am rather old and close to the grave, but I learned not to worry about WW III (in the Cold War days). Islam as a political movement is small potatoes compared to the Cold War. Of course some folks are trying to create Cold War II ... because the first one was so profitable for them ;-(
Quote from: Baruch on October 17, 2015, 10:55:55 AM
I knew a woman, online, from Australia who worries about Muslims like you do. She really can't do anything about Muslims coming to Australia ... and I was always was afraid she would have an aneurism over it. Now it might be fatalistic, and I am rather old and close to the grave, but I learned not to worry about WW III (in the Cold War days). Islam as a political movement is small potatoes compared to the Cold War. Of course some folks are trying to create Cold War II ... because the first one was so profitable for them ;-(
I believe you are gauging this wrongly. Perhaps the Cold War was terrifying, but both sides knew about MAD, and so were able to rationalize that the cost would outweigh the benefits. In our present situation, the other side doesn't care about MAD, and is less than rational in evaluating cost/benefits as all the benefits are on the afterlife with 72 virgins.
Baruch wrote: QuoteIslam as a political movement is small potatoes compared to the Cold War.
Islam has been conquering and destroying civilizations for 14 centuries and still going strong. Small potatoes? I think not.
The only way to win, is to not play the game. We keep getting our noses in the Middle East ... we won't stop playing the game. This started with President Jefferson, and the two wars against Libya (then called Tripolitania). And there we were, just a couple years ago, helping the Europeans mess around in the same country, so that Italy (I believe) didn't have to use gold to buy oil.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Barbary_War
The Battle of Derna should cause observant heads to turn, one because it is the source of the Marine Corp hymn ... secondly because we were doing just that at the opening of the American war in Afghanistan ... special ops working with local rebels. There is nothing new that hasn't been done before.
Quote from: pr126 on October 17, 2015, 11:05:18 AM
Baruch wrote: Islam has been conquering and destroying civilizations for 14 centuries and still going strong. Small potatoes? I think not.
If the Jefferson administration over 200 years ago can defeat them ... sweet potatoes indeed. Islam hasn't been a threat since 1690. I can't completely blame Islamic political crazies ... if they get their hands on nukes (the Pakistanies already have them) ... it is because the "big countries" lost control of the proliferation issue ... primarily the Soviet Union helping China and N Korea getting nukes, then N Korea helping Pakistan get nukes. Score another win for Stalin.
Joesph,
1. I never ever said islam should be treated differently than some other religion. I share the same opinion for typical atheist reactions to other religions. It's useless and bullshit. It's a fucking show. Nothing more.
2. I had my account deleted before. This is a new one. With what's lost in one big, one small crash and with my first account in 2010 here, my posts would pass 10 000 in this forum. and I wrote more than hundreds about this subject. But it is not an attractive topic, because like you and pr, people like to talk about how the end is nigh.
3. You are a demagouge and a bad one. It's a common trait around here, because it pays of jerking off to mainstream ideas in the forum.
4. My English is fine. However, your reading and understanding skills leave a lot to desire. You are trying to fit me in a stereotype you think I am and that you want me to be and reading everything I write with this perspective. And you don't get anything about what I am saying, because you are a dumb ass American idiot and you want people to think like you and react like you; see the world like you which is something ends in the limits of your banana republic. I'm not interested in your obnoxious, useless black and white style brash and crass style of 'attack' on religions. Been there, done that. I was 20 smt. I grew up. Go fap by yourself. Don't forget to get your head ot of your ass.
5. I'm bored.
Quote from: drunkenshoe on October 17, 2015, 11:42:55 AM
Joesph,
1. I never ever said islam should be treated differently than some other religion. I share the same opinion for typical atheist reactions to other religions. It's useless and bullshit. It's a fucking show. Nothing more.
You have funny way of showing that, always defending Muslims and their idiotic religion to the point of sounding totally absurd.
Quote2. I had my account deleted before. This is a new one. With what's lost in one big, one small crash and with my first account in 2010 here, my posts would pass 10 000 in this forum. and I wrote more than hundreds about this subject. But it is not an attractive topic, because like you and pr, people like to talk about how the end is nigh.
Fine, but why do you rest your case on previous posts, when many were wiped out? How about showing your expertise instead of bragging about it?
Quote3. You are a demagouge and a bad one. It's a common trait around here, because it pays of jerking off to mainstream ideas in the forum.
Show me one of my posts that supports this claim. BTW, expressing an opinion is no evidence. I know you know that, but you need to be reminded as all your claims so far are just your expressions.
Quote4. My English is fine. However, your reading and understanding skills leave a lot to desire.
I disagree.
QuoteYou are trying to fit me in a stereotype
No, you have done that all by yourself.
QuoteAnd you don't get anything about what I am saying,
So far you are reacting like a typical Muslim who is easily offended just because of some criticism of Islam. Prove me wrong.
Quotebecause you are a dumb ass American idiot
I'm wondering if someone would call you a dumb ass Turk, how you would react?
Quotesee the world like you which is something ends in the limits of your banana republic. I'm not interested in your obnoxious, useless black and white style brash and crass style of 'attack' on religions. Been there, done that. I was 20 smt. I grew up.
Fine, you don't need to reply to my post. There is an "ignore" button.
Quote5. I'm bored.
Tough luck.
pr, being an arrogant prick really is no way to go through life, but you seem to pull it off well. I get it that you just can't stand to have your ass handed to you by a woman from a Muslim country no less, but being proven wrong time and time again doesn't automatically make you right no matter how many times you think it does.
You'd fit right in with the southern baptists evangelicals here in the states where it's seen as a right of passage to stuff your fingers in your ears and go LALALALA I can't hear you!
By the way, have you checked for the boogie man under your bed lately?
Shoe does a great job of explaining things, but many of you bother reading only the parts that you disagree with. Such enlightenment. You should get jobs picking cherries.
I don't think Shoe is suggesting we treat Islam differently. All I see is her pointing out that we tend to paint all Muslims as either extremists or sympathizing with extremists, whereas we are far more likely to acknowledge moderates of other religions as being somewhat sane. I don't see nearly as much discussion of WBC, megachurches, the boyscouts, the IRA, and other extreme, bullshit, primarily Christian organizations. I also don't see us talking that much about Hindus murdering Muslims in cold blood over cow slaughter.
Much like "the establishment," this forum has a tendency to label any crime carried out by a Muslim as Muslim terrorism, but forgive those of other groups as being the acts of individuals that do not represent the whole. Let's not forget that not too long ago there was an atheist shooting Christians in a parking lot, and we immediately did everything in our power to distance ourselves from his actions. Even as I say this you're thinking to yourself, "Well, he didn't do it in the name of atheism." Well, Christians certainly saw it that way; and they also tend to dissociate their own extremists from their beliefs. Muslims do the same thing, but for some reason we don't give them that same breathing room.
Now if you'll excuse me, I need to fire up CK2, finish besieging London, and unite Europe under the Hatsune Caliphate.
(http://img04.deviantart.net/d7cd/i/2012/098/f/4/hatsune_miku___hijab_style___by_darkmoonlight4237-d4vf2kn.jpg)
Of course I am not suggesting we should treat one religion any differently than others.
And for the record, before I was insulted by being called an apologist and further provoked, I was trying to offer solutions and show that claims about UK welfare budget relation with migrants claimants is not what it is claimed to be in reality. That is all.
Quote from: Hijiri Byakuren on October 17, 2015, 12:32:40 PM
Now if you'll excuse me, I need to fire up CK2, finish besieging London, and unite Europe under the Hatsune Caliphate.
:rotflmao:
Quote from: Hijiri Byakuren on October 17, 2015, 12:32:40 PM
I don't think Shoe is suggesting we treat Islam differently. All I see is her pointing out that we tend to paint all Muslims as either extremists or sympathizing with extremists, whereas we are far more likely to acknowledge moderates of other religions as being somewhat sane. I don't see nearly as much discussion of WBC, megachurches, the boyscouts, the IRA, and other extreme, bullshit, primarily Christian organizations. I also don't see us talking that much about Hindus murdering Muslims in cold blood over cow slaughter.
That's because you are relatively "young" on this forum. A lot of the posts were lost in the transition of ownership, and many of the old members have gone their way, but trust me those topics were discussed multiple times.