https://www.yahoo.com/parenting/parents-fight-back-over-schools-halloween-ban-193614644.html
I love how Halloween is the holiday that creates so much fundamental chaos and seems to lob people onto sides of the political spectrum they don't frequently visit.
There are conservative Christians who want it banned because it's a pagan holiday (yes, I know, all Christian holidays are pagan in nature and the irony isn't beyond me). If it's not banned on pagan origins, then they want it banned because it's a holiday that isn't about Jesus.
Then there are the groups that want it banned because it's a Christian holiday and schools shouldn't be celebrating any religion in any way. We wouldn't want students of other religious backgrounds Muslims, Orthodox Jews, Jehovah’s Witnesses, or atheists to feel excluded by a holiday that not everyone observes, would we?
Then it seems like many Conservatives who want to keep it around because it's "tradition" and you can't go around shitting on tradition. This is America! If it's a holiday Muslims don't celebrate, let's fucking celebrate it even if it's against Jesus.
I've never been big into celebrating Halloween personally, but we did things in school and passed out candy. I was never allowed to wear a costume to school because even back in the 1990s school officials cited dress code reasons, which I get. Nowadays safety is also probably a concern (whether real or imagined) because since school shootings happen practically every day, is it smart to let your students walk around with masks on?
It seems to me as though Halloween is just the most perfect example of what's wrong with the Western world. We took a pagan holiday, reinvented it in the image of commercialism to sell shitty costumes to people that were probably made by overseas slave labor, then the religious started to pick it apart, then political correctness stepped in and had to have its two cents, then the safety brigade clutched its pearls over fears of school shootings and peanut allergies, and now no one can have any fucking fun because it's both somehow unAmerican, too American, anti-religious, too religious, anti-Muslim, anti-atheist, unsafe, unfair, and unclean. We are also required to worry that not celebrating it will rob children of their childhoods, their innocence, their imaginations, their first amendment right to dress up like Spiderman and the American way of life in general while also worrying that it enhances a culture that causes body image issues, obesity, and tooth decay (what's up Dr. Peterman, DDS?!)
Quote from: TomFoolery on October 13, 2015, 11:04:42 AM
https://www.yahoo.com/parenting/parents-fight-back-over-schools-halloween-ban-193614644.html
I love how Halloween is the holiday that creates so much fundamental chaos and seems to lob people onto sides of the political spectrum they don't frequently visit.
There are conservative Christians who want it banned because it's a pagan holiday (yes, I know, all Christian holidays are pagan in nature and the irony isn't beyond me). If it's not banned on pagan origins, then they want it banned because it's a holiday that isn't about Jesus.
Then there are the groups that want it banned because it's a Christian holiday and schools shouldn't be celebrating any religion in any way. We wouldn't want students of other religious backgrounds Muslims, Orthodox Jews, Jehovah’s Witnesses, or atheists to feel excluded by a holiday that not everyone observes, would we?
Then it seems like many Conservatives who want to keep it around because it's "tradition" and you can't go around shitting on tradition. This is America! If it's a holiday Muslims don't celebrate, let's fucking celebrate it even if it's against Jesus.
I've never been big into celebrating Halloween personally, but we did things in school and passed out candy. I was never allowed to wear a costume to school because even back in the 1990s school officials cited dress code reasons, which I get. Nowadays safety is also probably a concern (whether real or imagined) because since school shootings happen practically every day, is it smart to let your students walk around with masks on?
It seems to me as though Halloween is just the most perfect example of what's wrong with the Western world. We took a pagan holiday, reinvented it in the image of commercialism to sell shitty costumes to people that were probably made by overseas slave labor, then the religious started to pick it apart, then political correctness stepped in and had to have its two cents, then the safety brigade clutched its pearls over fears of school shootings and peanut allergies, and now no one can have any fucking fun because it's both somehow unAmerican, too American, anti-religious, too religious, anti-Muslim, anti-atheist, unsafe, unfair, and unclean. We are also required to worry that not celebrating it will rob children of their childhoods, their innocence, their imaginations, their first amendment right to dress up like Spiderman and the American way of life in general while also worrying that it enhances a culture that causes body image issues, obesity, and tooth decay (what's up Dr. Peterman, DDS?!)
You forgot the needle in the apple terrors.
Quote from: Mike Cl on October 13, 2015, 11:25:09 AM
You forgot the needle in the apple terrors.
I thought it was razors in apples?
I was even informed yesterday that I'm not supposed to give out candy with nuts or gluten. Sorry, but if someone comes to my house and begs for candy with the socially mandated incantation "trick or treat", they're getting whatever the fuck I give them. If they're allergic, they should pick it out. If the kid is too young to know they're allergic to it, they should be with their parents and they should pick it out for them.
I sort of agree with the idea that school is school and kids should go there to learn but really, the fight to appease everyone just always ends up making everything boring.
Quote from: TomFoolery on October 13, 2015, 11:04:42 AMThere are conservative Christians who want it banned because it's a pagan holiday (yes, I know, all Christian holidays are pagan in nature and the irony isn't beyond me). If it's not banned on pagan origins, then they want it banned because it's a holiday that isn't about Jesus.
I think some of it is that they really believe in demons and evil spirits and don't want their kids to be associated with that. In essence, Halloween isn't playful fun to them, it's real. It's not unlike the Christians who don't want their kids to read Harry Potter because it has witchcraft in it and they believe that witchcraft is real. They apparently don't understand that this stuff is fictional and harmless entertainment.
QuoteThen there are the groups that want it banned because it's a Christian holiday and schools shouldn't be celebrating any religion in any way. We wouldn't want students of other religious backgrounds Muslims, Orthodox Jews, Jehovah’s Witnesses, or atheists to feel excluded by a holiday that not everyone observes, would we?
And that's the even dumber perspective. 1) It's not a Christian holiday. 2) There are lots of holidays and not everyone observes all of them, and that's fine. Everyone can and should do their own thing. I mean, it doesn't bother me when other people celebrate holidays that I don't celebrate. And I certainly don't try to put a stop to their festivities in response. WTF is wrong with these people?
QuoteThen it seems like many Conservatives who want to keep it around because it's "tradition" and you can't go around shitting on tradition.
It's actually very recent tradition. While its pagan roots go back centuries, the secular, costumed, trick-or-treet holiday that we're familiar with is less than 100 years old.
QuoteI've never been big into celebrating Halloween personally, but we did things in school and passed out candy.
Heretic. Halloween is the best holiday ever! A celebration of horror and the macabre (typically a taboo subject) paired with creative costuming/decoration and prodigious candy consumption. It's the best!
QuoteI was never allowed to wear a costume to school because even back in the 1990s school officials cited dress code reasons, which I get. Nowadays safety is also probably a concern (whether real or imagined) because since school shootings happen practically every day, is it smart to let your students walk around with masks on?
Masks are okay except where prohibited (like inside a store). Kids are often escorted by adults now, though I remember when that was rarely the case. Imho, the safety issues with Halloween are often exaggerated. People nowadays are overprotective.
Quote from: Hydra009 on October 13, 2015, 11:59:19 AM
Masks are okay except where prohibited (like inside a store). Kids are often escorted by adults now, though I remember when that was rarely the case. Imho, the safety issues with Halloween are often exaggerated. People nowadays are overprotective.
I went trick-or-treating up until I was 11, and I don't think my parents
ever went with me. When I was littler I had my older cousins, and as I got older myself, I was put in charge of other, younger kids. We roamed in packs. Now parents have gotten arrested and had their kids taken away just for letting them walk to the park by themselves. The safety brigade and the political correctness council have really coalesced into a force to make me tremble over Halloween.
Like, we are forced to wonder if selling sexy versions of costumes from Sexy Badger to Sexy Newt Gingrich overly sexualizes young girls while somehow simultaneously not allowing them to "express themselves." There are the boy costumes versus girl costumes debates, the fears over child abductions, the fears about over sheltering the kids. It's enough to make me wonder if I'm supposed to be afraid, offended, or delighted if a group of kids shows up on my doorstep in gender bending costumes with no parents. Do I call the police and report child neglect, give them a lecture on gender roles, or give them candy? Does the candy have to be peanut and gluten free? Are kids even supposed to say "trick or treat" anymore? I just... don't know.
Quote from: TomFoolery on October 13, 2015, 12:06:31 PMThere are the boy costumes versus girl costumes debates, the fears over child abductions, the fears about over sheltering the kids. It's enough to make me wonder if I'm supposed to be afraid, offended, or delighted if a group of kids shows up on my doorstep in gender bending costumes with no parents. Do I call the police and report child neglect, give them a lecture on gender roles, or give them candy? Does the candy have to be peanut and gluten free? Are kids even supposed to say "trick or treat" anymore? I just... don't know.
Leave it to the talking heads to make a simple holiday so complex. We can't simply have a fun time, we have to worry about everything.
And yes, the phrase "trick or treat" is mandatory, and - don't quote me on this - you're legally obligated to play a trick if no treat is forthcoming.
"Halloween is just the most perfect example of what's wrong with the Western world."
If Halloween is wrong, I don't want to be right.
Quote from: TomFoolery on October 13, 2015, 11:42:52 AM
I thought it was razors in apples?
I was even informed yesterday that I'm not supposed to give out candy with nuts or gluten. Sorry, but if someone comes to my house and begs for candy with the socially mandated incantation "trick or treat", they're getting whatever the fuck I give them. If they're allergic, they should pick it out. If the kid is too young to know they're allergic to it, they should be with their parents and they should pick it out for them.
I sort of agree with the idea that school is school and kids should go there to learn but really, the fight to appease everyone just always ends up making everything boring.
Yeah, I forgot about the razors. Both came in apples. That is christian, right? The apple brought us down. :)
I solved the Halloween pain-in-the-ass night. We simply drawn the curtains, turn out all the lights and let the dogs bark at the sweet little children walking by. Don't answer the doorbell. I play my computer until bed time and then go to sleep. Yeah, I know, I'm the Grinch of Halloween. And I liked the last Grinch christmas movie--except it should have ended twenty min. earlier than it did--you know, with all the toys up the mountain and in the cave.
Guys, the poisoned/razored Halloween candy thing (http://www.snopes.com/horrors/poison/halloween.asp) is more myth than fact (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoned_candy_myths). From the way people talk, you'd think it was a common occurrence. It's not. It's not even rare. We're talking fewer than 90 cases of actual tampering compared to the massive numbers of people who have never had any problem year after year. And that was before candies were commonly individually packaged. It's even less of a worry nowadays. Stop repeating the razor blades in apples thing, it's bunk.
Quote from: Hydra009 on October 13, 2015, 02:23:18 PM
Guys, the poisoned/razored Halloween candy thing (http://www.snopes.com/horrors/poison/halloween.asp) is more myth than fact (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoned_candy_myths). From the way people talk, you'd think it was a common occurrence. It's not. It's not even rare. We're talking fewer than 90 cases of actual tampering compared to the massive numbers of people who have never had any problem year after year. And that was before candies were commonly individually packaged. It's even less of a worry nowadays. Stop repeating the razor blades in apples thing, it's bunk.
Yeah, I know it's fiction. In the same area of being real is the story of Satan worshipers everywhere. Just isn't so.
I even requested an American invasion to get Halloween, but no luck, alas! They informed me that there is not enough profit in it. :sad2:
Quote from: Hydra009 on October 13, 2015, 02:23:18 PM
Guys, the poisoned/razored Halloween candy thing (http://www.snopes.com/horrors/poison/halloween.asp) is more myth than fact (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoned_candy_myths). From the way people talk, you'd think it was a common occurrence. It's not. It's not even rare. We're talking fewer than 90 cases of actual tampering compared to the massive numbers of people who have never had any problem year after year. And that was before candies were commonly individually packaged. It's even less of a worry nowadays. Stop repeating the razor blades in apples thing, it's bunk.
I know. I assumed Mike was joking, and I was joking with him. In fact, I think the discrepancy between needles and razors illustrates what happens when urban legends change over the years.
When it comes to apples anyway, there actually has never been any single documented case of razors.
When I was growing up, it was never a day off school (unless of course it fell on a weekend), and I never got the day off work either. It;s not an officially observed holiday; it's more of a folk holiday. You can't ban it any more than you can ban Tuesday. October 31 IS Halloween.
As for razor blades in candy, when I was a kid the fear was razor blades in apples.
Quote from: TomFoolery on October 13, 2015, 11:04:42 AM
It seems to me as though Halloween is just the most perfect example of what's wrong with the Western world. We took a pagan holiday, reinvented it in the image of commercialism to sell shitty costumes to people that were probably made by overseas slave labor, then the religious started to pick it apart, then political correctness stepped in and had to have its two cents, then the safety brigade clutched its pearls over fears of school shootings and peanut allergies, and now no one can have any fucking fun because it's both somehow unAmerican, too American, anti-religious, too religious, anti-Muslim, anti-atheist, unsafe, unfair, and unclean. We are also required to worry that not celebrating it will rob children of their childhoods, their innocence, their imaginations, their first amendment right to dress up like Spiderman and the American way of life in general while also worrying that it enhances a culture that causes body image issues, obesity, and tooth decay (what's up Dr. Peterman, DDS?!)
I'm not sure that " Halloween is just the most perfect example of what's wrong with the Western world"'. That so many people can voice their opinion on whether to celebrate or not is a mark of its strength, not what's wrong. It still remains that you're free to celebrate or not.
Quote from: josephpalazzo on October 13, 2015, 03:27:09 PM
I'm not sure that " Halloween is just the most perfect example of what's wrong with the Western world"'. That so many people can voice their opinion on whether to celebrate or not is a mark of its strength, not what's wrong. It still remains that you're free to celebrate or not.
No, I was trying to point out that what's wrong with it is that somehow no one really seems to question why a holiday can be both the embodiment and antithesis of so many things at once.
Quote from: TomFoolery on October 13, 2015, 03:30:00 PM
No, I was trying to point out that what's wrong with it is that somehow no one really seems to question why a holiday can be both the embodiment and antithesis of so many things at once.
Ok, I hear what you say, but most people are uncomfortable with anything, be it a celebration or something else, that embodies opposing views. The threads in this forum give an ample sample of that.
Ill Sam Hain/Halloween all i want and there's nothing you can do about it
Quote from: Draconic Aiur on October 13, 2015, 03:50:59 PM
Ill Sam Hain/Halloween all i want and there's nothing you can do about it
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-xKwSvha7s9k/Uk_3VHMNdCI/AAAAAAAARTQ/JtaV5ZeDp4w/s400/samhain.jpg)
Quote from: josephpalazzo on October 13, 2015, 03:35:39 PM
Ok, I hear what you say, but most people are uncomfortable with anything, be it a celebration or something else, that embodies opposing views. The threads in this forum give an ample sample of that.
I wasn't trying to say people aren't allowed to have opposing views. I was merely trying to acknowledge the hilarity of having deeply held opposing views on it at all, when I think the majority of people view it as just a secular holiday in which kids dress up in costumes and solicit neighbors for candy and adults view it as an opportunity to put on dorky wigs, hats, and masks and get drunk at parties.
We try really hard to make things into things they just aren't, and deep down, the American tradition of Halloween doesn't go a whole lot deeper than that.
In my part of England Halloween was never much of a thing our day was November the fifth, bomb fire night, of murder treason and plot.
Halloween is slowly coming in because of all the American programs that litter British TV. So I get occasional rabbles of little children begging for sweets at my door and watch their faces fall as I say to their parents 'Do I look like a fucking Yank'.
Unfortunately the bomb fire night of my youth is dwindling, too many burns from fireworks for the PC crowd, but it is a fine celebration of Guy Fawkes failure to blow up the houses of parliament, where we get to publicly burn effigies of Catholics or anybody else we don't like at the time. Now what could be better than that?
There are a few places where the celebration is still strong so I send you a video of one of these to get a flavour of a good night out.
https://youtu.be/2OttNo41ab0
Quote from: TomFoolery on October 13, 2015, 04:50:38 PM
... the American tradition of Halloween doesn't go a whole lot deeper than that.
Blasphemy!
Quote from: jonb on October 13, 2015, 05:17:09 PM
In my part of England Halloween was never much of a thing our day was November the fifth, bomb fire night, of murder treason and plot.
Halloween is slowly coming in because of all the American programs that litter British TV. So I get occasional rabbles of little children begging for sweets at my door and watch their faces fall as I say to their parents 'Do I look like a fucking Yank'.
Unfortunately the bomb fire night of my youth is dwindling, too many burns from fireworks for the PC crowd, but it is a fine celebration of Guy Fawkes failure to blow up the houses of parliament, where we get to publicly burn effigies of Catholics or anybody else we don't like at the time. Now what could be better than that?
There are a few places where the celebration is still strong so I send you a video of one of these to get a flavour of a good night out.
I'm usually first to regard children as annoying, loud little goblins. But I do love halloween, because of my love of horror, so I always have a tub of sweets ready for any kids, which given how my house is tucked behind other houses, they rarely come by, its usually a good amount left over the next day.
And when it reaches midnight, I lock the door, sit back with my leftover sweets, and watch a new horror movie I've not seen before. Better then christmas.
Quote from: Munch on October 13, 2015, 07:17:53 PM
But I do love halloween, because of my love of horror, so I always have a tub of sweets ready for any kids, which given how my house is tucked behind other houses, they rarely come by, its usually a good amount left over the next day.
And when it reaches midnight, I lock the door, sit back with my leftover sweets, and watch a new horror movie I've not seen before. Better then christmas.
That's why it's critical to not buy candy you don't like, and also why I refuse to jump on the nut free, gluten free, fat free, sugar free, asbestos free, mercury free candy served by the let's-make-the-world-allergy-proof bandwagon. I do love my Reese's Pieces and Almond Joys. :)
Oh noes, you have discovered my strategy for eating loads of candy guilt-free! Curses!
A coworker, who knows I love Halloween, asked me if I was going to have a teal colored pumpkin. Teal pumpkin? She said it was to show you have non-candy treat, like toys, for children who have food allergies. My response was:
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/07/19/article-2370504-0030CEEF00000258-502_306x423.jpg)
Quote from: GSOgymrat on October 14, 2015, 09:17:23 AM
A coworker, who knows I love Halloween, asked me if I was going to have a teal colored pumpkin. Teal pumpkin? She said it was to show you have non-candy treat, like toys, for children who have food allergies. My response was:
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/07/19/article-2370504-0030CEEF00000258-502_306x423.jpg)
I would have said:
(http://i61.tinypic.com/1z2lx6r.png)
For me it's just something we did as kids that nobody really does much anymore. My childhood included long nights of wondering around the neighborhood and other neighborhoods we didn't even live in often alone when we fell behind the other kids or got ahead of them and there was never really any fear except loose dogs or the occasional creepy house with to many bushes and no lights. Usually towards the end of the night our bags of candy got way to heavy and our feet hurt and we had to lug all that shit back home.
By the time my own kids were old enough to take out it was more like me standing around playing body guard to keep the other little fucking trouble makers from beating them up and taking their candy then eventually they got old enough to go out by themselves until I realized that they just looked stupid out vying for candy that really should have been reserved for little kids.
As far as adults getting all dressed up. ..oh grow up. If you need a reason to drink just realize you're gonna die someday. That's reason enough and none of this crap is really scary at all just like scary movies don't scare me in the least.It's a kiddie thing. If you can't keep your kids safe then don't partake. It's the epitome of adults playing kid in a way that leaves me feeling that they're phonier than a 3 dollar bill, but then again I'm just no fun.
Quote from: Mike Cl on October 13, 2015, 11:25:09 AM
You forgot the needle in the apple terrors.
Saw this today and made me think of this topic:
http://aboveaverage.com/how-to-spot-suspicious-halloween-candy/
Quote from: TomFoolery on October 28, 2015, 08:58:14 AM
Saw this today and made me think of this topic:
http://aboveaverage.com/how-to-spot-suspicious-halloween-candy/
That is exactly what I was talking about!! Kids by the hundreds fall prey to this insidious candy trapping of our kids every year! Hell, I forbid my daughter to leave the house on Halloween (never mind she is in her 40's and lives in a different city) just to keep her safe. I trick-or-treat myself so that she won't be cheated out of her tooth decay. I then return home and run the candy thru my testing stations, one piece at a time. So, she can then have her sugar high with the knowledge she is safe.!!!! Just can't be too careful with all the Satanists out there. Oh--one tip I've learned over the decades--never trick-or-treat on a street where you've seen a sacrificial goat.
I stumbled on a blog post (https://sometimesmagical.wordpress.com/2012/10/20/halloween-facing-fear-and-breaking-taboos/) that perfectly articulates why I like Halloween:
QuoteHalloween gives us permission to face fear, anger, sadness, death, destruction, and taboos. We shouldn’t necessarily need permission to approach these subjects, but I think we often feel like we can’t most of the time. Society has made them unmentionables. We come into contact with them only when we have to, and then because they’re so unfamiliar to us, we’re unequipped to face them. I don’t think it’s healthy or even possible to try to avoid dealing with the darker aspects of life, and because society tries to pretend they don’t exist, we need an outlet. Halloween provides that outlet.
In October, we feel that we are allowed to openly express the things that all year round we’ve been pressured to keep buried. They not only become allowed, they become expected. Few people, at least in the area where I live, do nothing for Halloween. Yards and houses are decked out in grotesque decorations. Adults and children alike design their most fearsome costumes. People host parties centered on macabre themes. Art shows pop up featuring gruesome works. There’s even a community zombie run, not to mention the ghost walks and haunted shows.
It’s the time of year when we can openly approach the disturbing and uncomfortable as a community, and as a community, break our own community rules.
But it does more than that.
It provides an outlet that turns fear, anger, sadness, death, destruction, and taboos into amusement, which is very important for a couple of reasons.
First, we need to know that fear doesn’t rule us. Taking fearful and somber topics and reducing them to comical absurdities allows us to face our fears and build the tools for overcoming them. The whole purpose of so many aspects of Halloween is to scare the shit out of people, and we do it deliberately to ourselves. There’s something exhilarating about approaching the things that disturb you and choosing to face them down. It’s empowering to take fear and turn it into a positive, fun experience. Seeking out fear in a safe environment gives us an opportunity to build tools to use in less safe environments. We learn that fear can be exciting, not just terrifying. We find ways of soothing ourselves as we head into the unknown, and we discover the tremendous high that comes when we face a fear and conquer it.
Second, it’s important for us to “blaspheme.†Taking the somber or taboo topics and turning them into a game gives us a break from their seriousness and takes away their power. Humor is an important coping mechanism, and dark humor (or satire) has a long history of helping people through difficult transitions and of enabling social action. Whether it’s someone buying a costume of a priest, which has recently taken on a more sinister quality than the mere desecration of a sacred symbol, breaking gender norms, or dressing up as a zombie Jesus, Halloween gives us a means of safely denigrating things that are normally off limits. It allows us to point out the irony of the world around us and to reduce or release the tension that is built up. Humor and ridicule bring these things back down to a form that we can handle.
Halloween temporarily rescinds the taboo on the macabre, allowing us to psychologically address death. It also allows us to face our fears through harmless mock horror and gives us a great opportunity to satirize normally sacrosanct things.
I'm starting to see why it's not a Bible Thumper's favorite time of year. This way of overcoming fear of death stands in stark contrast to their supernatural comfort blanket. Plus, the holiday stands out as seemingly an inverse of their values - a night of wickedness and mischief rather than godly and proper. They're probably also not thrilled about supernatural entities paraded around as amusing absurdities rather than serious and real.