at Oregon's Umpqua Community College.
Some report 15 dead
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/oregon-college-shooting-live-updates-6556337
This shit is so out of hand. It isn't rather we are able to have guns, but rather are we safer! We are not obviously to me. Rite to be armed, or right to be safe-----that is the question.
Another one? Jesus.... :sad:
Yawn! Congress men and women will come out in horror and saddness; the NRA will profess that people kill people, not guns; the right will tell us that to talk about guns now will show disrespect for the victims and that they need time to grieve. Nothing will change.
FB pubes announcing it was all faked by Obama's FBI stooges,,,,pictures of supposedly dead will show up shopping at a Wal-Mart in Tuscaloosa in 3….2…..1….
Stopping by because it's relevant...
Quote... Nothing will change.
Starting next year, my school and 100-something others across Texas will allow students to bring concealed irearms (my key between d and g isn't working...) onto campus. So at least here, things are changing... just or the worse.
Quote from: Mike Cl on October 01, 2015, 05:42:32 PM
Yawn! Congress men and women will come out in horror and saddness; the NRA will profess that people kill people, not guns; the right will tell us that to talk about guns now will show disrespect for the victims and that they need time to grieve. Nothing will change.
Our children are the price we pay to have the freedom to own guns. Small enough price, I guess.
Quote from: Shiranu on October 01, 2015, 06:07:18 PM
(my key between d and g isn't working...)
This could present some interesting posts…good luck.
Quote from: aitm on October 01, 2015, 06:23:36 PM
This could present some interesting posts…good luck.
Thanks :P.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on October 01, 2015, 06:12:56 PM
Our children are the price we pay to have the freedom to own guns. Small enough price, I guess.
Yeah. And they were probably a bunch of commie liberals anyway. So who the fuck cares?
Once a week... the number o times there is a shooting on school properties in America since Sandy Hook...
Ya know, you're never going to get Americans to hate the guns as much as you (figuratively speaking, "you") might. It's just NOT going to happen. Understand. Move on.
I, myself, have two I am willing to register and insure like a car, but I'm not everyone.
Quote from: Shiranu on October 01, 2015, 06:24:32 PM
Thanks :P.
http://www.theworldofstuff.com/characters/
♫
If you want to see gun control happen, shoot Wayne LaPierre or one of the Koch brothers or a Republican congressman.
Only when America stops being America ... but when England is no longer England, the English will be brandishing worse than guns ...
Quote from: stromboli on October 01, 2015, 08:47:35 PM
If you want to see gun control happen, shoot Wayne LaPierre or one of the Koch brothers or a Republican congressman.
That would be poetic justice. Never happen........................
Quote from: stromboli on October 01, 2015, 08:47:35 PM
If you want to see gun control happen, shoot Wayne LaPierre or one of the Koch brothers or a Republican congressman.
Reagan, the Republican's Deity, argued for the 2nd Amendments "well regulated militia", and also lost in today's gun arena.
NO SHOOTING is going to stop anyone flailing about their gun rights these days. Obviously. So what else can we do as a society?
The latest and greatest. They are now saying the shooter was an atheist and was targeting Christians.
http://nypost.com/2015/10/01/oregon-gunman-singled-out-christians-during-rampage/
QuoteThe gunman who opened fire at an Oregon community college was forcing people to stand up and state their religion before he began blasting away at them, survivors said Thursday.
A woman who claimed to have a grandmother inside a writing class in Snyder Hall, where a portion the massacre unfolded, described the scene in a tweet.
“The shooter was lining people up and asking if they were Christian,†she wrote. “If they said yes, then they were shot in the head. If they said no, or didn’t answer, they were shot in the legs. My grandma just got to my house, and she was in the room. She wasn’t shot, but she is very upset.
Stick around. Shit's gonna get real.
Quote from: stromboli on October 01, 2015, 11:04:06 PM
The latest and greatest. They are now saying the shooter was an atheist and was targeting Christians.
http://nypost.com/2015/10/01/oregon-gunman-singled-out-christians-during-rampage/
Stick around. Shit's gonna get real.
(apologies For the capital Fs, have it on copy-paste...)
You know what, I'm going to be honest here...
...that wouldn't surprise me at all. There are a lot oF really just... weird... people who are atheists, who I think are attracted to it more For the counter-culture, anti-theist ("anti-normal") aspect than anything else. And even iF they aren't shooting up schools, they are giving atheists a terrible rap because they strike people as the type oF person whom would go and shoot up a school.
Frankly I we are going to hold religion to blame For political or "mentally ill" based violence then this is just as much atheism's Fault because it was For the sake oF his philosophy that he killed For. We cant have our cake and eat it too; either the mentally ill kill because they are mentally ill, or they kill For their worldviews, which means atheism can be just as violence as the next. And I would say that anti-theism is very much a catalyst For violence because oF it's black-and-white morality and over-the-top rhetoric.
Quote from: stromboli on October 01, 2015, 11:04:06 PM
The latest and greatest. They are now saying the shooter was an atheist and was targeting Christians.
An online dating site profile reported to be that of shooter lists him as "not religious spiritual" which doesn't sound atheist to me, but most religitards in this country don't know the difference between a Muslim and an atheist so it doesn't surprise me the term atheist is being thrown around.
The profile also lists him as conservative...
There is also a picture of him holding a rifle. It's a Ruger 10/22.
Quote from: PopeyesPappy on October 01, 2015, 11:27:20 PM
An online dating site profile reported to be that of shooter lists him as "not religious spiritual" which doesn't sound atheist to me, but most religitards in this country don't know the difference between a Muslim and an atheist so it doesn't surprise me the term atheist is being thrown around.
The profile also lists him as conservative...
There is also a picture of him holding a rifle. It's a Ruger 10/22.
Yeah. I expect the atheist aspect would get blown up by the media, regardless of what he was if he did indeed target Christians. More to the story. We'll see.
http://heavy.com/news/2015/10/chris-harper-mercer-photos-pictures-roseburg-oregon-umpqua-community-college-shooter-family-facebook-twitter-instagram/2/
(https://heavyeditorial.files.wordpress.com/2015/10/screen-shot-2015-10-01-at-9-18-25-pm.jpg?quality=65&strip=all&w=780)
Conservative Republican
Remember: now is not the time to talk about gun control.
Quote from: stromboli on October 01, 2015, 11:45:21 PM
http://heavy.com/news/2015/10/chris-harper-mercer-photos-pictures-roseburg-oregon-umpqua-community-college-shooter-family-facebook-twitter-instagram/2/
(https://heavyeditorial.files.wordpress.com/2015/10/screen-shot-2015-10-01-at-9-18-25-pm.jpg?quality=65&strip=all&w=780)
Conservative Republican
I have to say, I'm surprised the media isn't jumping on the introvert train as well...
Why the attention on the shooter?
Now can we ban guns?
Quote from: Shiranu on October 01, 2015, 11:21:49 PM
(apologies For the capital Fs, have it on copy-paste...)
Just use Alt-159 Æ' or Alt-102 f
Quote from: stromboli on October 01, 2015, 11:45:21 PM
http://heavy.com/news/2015/10/chris-harper-mercer-photos-pictures-roseburg-oregon-umpqua-community-college-shooter-family-facebook-twitter-instagram/2/
(https://heavyeditorial.files.wordpress.com/2015/10/screen-shot-2015-10-01-at-9-18-25-pm.jpg?quality=65&strip=all&w=780)
Conservative Republican
Zombie killer. I tell ya we need to ban those stupid movies. People go around thinking zombies exist. Right there is the problem with murica.
Quote from: josephpalazzo on October 02, 2015, 05:16:18 AM
Why the attention on the shooter?
Because others are already claiming he was a atheist with a liberal agenda of killing Christians...
Quote from: PopeyesPappy on October 02, 2015, 07:53:23 AM
Because others are already claiming he was a atheist with a liberal agenda of killing Christians...
Ask them if they'd still be outraged if he was a Christian targeting Muslims. Then get ready to laugh when they lie.
Quote from: PopeyesPappy on October 02, 2015, 07:53:23 AM
Because others are already claiming he was a atheist with a liberal agenda of killing Christians...
He was spiritual and Republican... oh wait, WTF.
ED is reporting that he was involved in Gamersgate and was a love shy MRA bronie.
QuoteHe did it because he was an atheist with no moral compass dumb atheists. Moral Majority
You just know this is coming next.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/10/02/forget-oregon-s-gunman-remember-the-hero-who-charged-straight-at-him.html
Same shit which should be done about all assholes who do atrocities out-to-be-famous; ignore them.
Quote from: Sal1981 on October 02, 2015, 12:52:02 PM
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/10/02/forget-oregon-s-gunman-remember-the-hero-who-charged-straight-at-him.html
Same shit which should be done about all assholes who do atrocities out-to-be-famous; ignore them.
I hear but with 24/7 cable news, that's not going to happen.
Oh c'mon. If this person was Christian or Muslim nutcase I really don't think you guys would be saying that we should just ignore him. I believe some of you would use his religious affiliation as some sort of proof that his entire religion is immoral and crazy. But since some in the media want to bandy about that he is an atheist (which is neither here or there if you ask me and most likely not true) and anti-religious (which he was and that might hold heavy implications as to what the consequences of preaching anti-religious hate are ), you want to sweep the whole thing under the rug.
Quote from: aitm on October 02, 2015, 07:32:42 AM
Zombie killer. I tell ya we need to ban those stupid movies. People go around thinking zombies exist. Right there is the problem with murica.
My observation of really conservative people I actually know ... is that zombies are the fill-in for the Blacks, Gays, Hispanics, etc ... that are the "Other" ... and whacking zombies (who couldn't have any civil rights at all) is an emotional outlet, a kind of snuff film, for those who would like to do to minorities what is portrayed in the zombie shows ;-(
Quote from: aitm on October 02, 2015, 07:32:42 AM
Zombie killer. I tell ya we need to ban those stupid movies. People go around thinking zombies exist. Right there is the problem with murica.
...they don't?
(http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/17jd8t9l46ufcjpg/original.jpg)
Quote from: Baruch on October 02, 2015, 07:59:37 PM
My observation of really conservative people I actually know ... is that zombies are the fill-in for the Blacks, Gays, Hispanics, etc ... that are the "Other" ... and whacking zombies (who couldn't have any civil rights at all) is an emotional outlet, a kind of snuff film, for those who would like to do to minorities what is portrayed in the zombie shows ;-(
Zombie movies are the apex of the apocalypse genre which seems to hold a certain appeal to rugged individualism types prominent in American culture.
Zombies: Animated rotting corpses eating the brains of the living. How vile! Who thought up the zombie persona, anyway? It is probably the most stereotyped monster group in Hollywood. With vampires, you never know exactly what they will do. Will they be frightened by the cross? Does garlic repel them? You never know. But Zombies are much easier to understand and predict. As a group, you might say they lack individuality and have no creativity whatsoever.
Quote from: PopeyesPappy on October 02, 2015, 07:53:23 AM
Because others are already claiming he was a atheist with a liberal agenda of killing Christians...
My first thought when I heard he asked people to identify their religious beliefs was that the media was looking for an atheist angle. I was hoping he wouldn't be, and apparently he's more like one of those new age spiritual types. None the less, he's hurting our image by not being a Christian. People tend to forgive a Christian who goes berserk. Non Christians are evil atheists, and prone to murder.
Quote from: SGOS on October 03, 2015, 06:16:49 AM
Zombies: Animated rotting corpses eating the brains of the living. How vile! Who thought up the zombie persona, anyway? It is probably the most stereotyped monster group in Hollywood. With vampires, you never know exactly what they will do. Will they be frightened by the cross? Does garlic repel them? You never know. But Zombies are much easier to understand and predict. As a group, you might say they lack individuality and have no creativity whatsoever.
Just like Hollywood script writers ... oh no, they are the zombies!
Quote from: SGOS on October 03, 2015, 06:27:31 AMNon Christians are evil atheists, and prone to murder.
"And if they don't believe in our Lord Jesus Christ they might as well be atheists because they're denying the True Word of God and refusing to allow the Holy Ghost to enter into their hearts and be saved. Damnation awaits those who deny the True Word of God."
Anybody want a complete set of relatives? Hardly used.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on October 03, 2015, 07:41:36 AM
"And if they don't believe in our Lord Jesus Christ they might as well be atheists because they're denying the True Word of God and refusing to allow the Holy Ghost to enter into their hearts and be saved. Damnation awaits those who deny the True Word of God."
Anybody want a complete set of relatives? Hardly used.
That depends, bat shit crazy that I know, and that have given up trying to convert me or new bat shit crazy that may still think there is hope for me. .....hmmmmm, i think I'll stick with the bat shit crazy that i know!
Our thoughts and prayers should be enough to stop anything bad from happening, in fact so much that we shouldn't even need a military. Thoughts and prayers should repel even the most savage of attacks by the bad guys. I'd go so far as to say that nobody should even need an umbrella to stay dry when it rains. Our thoughts and prayers will keep you dry.
On the other hand. ...perhaps not.
QuoteMcGowan told family members that the gunman didn't specifically target Christians but asked them about faith. The shooter, apparently planning to die during the massacre, told students: "I'll see you soon" or "I'll meet you soon."
Gunman in Oregon college shooting didn't specifically target Christians, survivor claims (http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2015/10/gunman_in_oregon_college_shoot.html)
Quote from: josephpalazzo on October 04, 2015, 05:24:16 AM
Gunman in Oregon college shooting didn't specifically target Christians, survivor claims (http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2015/10/gunman_in_oregon_college_shoot.html)
Asking about faith before shooting was a macabre twist to the story, but I've wondered what the shooter would have done if a victim identified himself as atheist?
I'm thoroughly anti-gun.
But to be perfectly honest, if I lived in the States I would definitely get a gun.
Why? Because every sociopath and criminal living in the States already seems to have one. It takes some batshit circumstances to make such a thing necessary.
Quote from: Cocoa Beware on October 04, 2015, 08:18:38 AM
I'm thoroughly anti-gun.
But to be perfectly honest, if I lived in the States I would definitely get a gun.
Why? Because every sociopath and criminal living in the States already seems to have one. It takes some batshit circumstances to make such a thing necessary.
So then you're not thoroughly anti gun. You'd become part of the problem instead of part of the solution. And in the US, for every time a gun is used for protection of self or ones family, it's used 44x against those very people it was meant to protect. In 30 years of mass shootings, the number of times a shooter was neutralized by an armed civilian is zero.
Quote from: Cocoa Beware on October 04, 2015, 08:18:38 AM
I'm thoroughly anti-gun.
But to be perfectly honest, if I lived in the States I would definitely get a gun.
Why? Because every sociopath and criminal living in the States already seems to have one. It takes some batshit circumstances to make such a thing necessary.
Keyword in this quote: seems. As is often the case, the perception you come away with from reading news reports and/or internet forums is not the same perception you would have if you actually lived here.
I grew up and spent most of my adult life living in a liberal state where guns are difficult to get and almost no one I knew had one. There was and still is lots of gun violence in the cities there, but most of those guns were obtained illegally. I grew up far from any city so I was no more concerned about being a victim of gun violence than I was concerned about being crushed in my bed by a falling asteroid. Which is to say there is always some risk of it, but not enough to lost any sleep over.
Now I live in a much more conservative state. Conservatives love guns and almost everyone I know here has several. To read the press reports, you'd probably think that most of those people I know would be taking out their guns and shooting anyone who pissed them off. Get your order from the drive-through and find out they gave you small fries instead of large? Boom, shot, dead. Neighbor won't rake his leafs so they blow over onto your property? Boom, shot, dead. But just like when I was living where no one had guns, I am no more concerned about being shot than being crushed by an asteroid.
Now if I lived or worked in a neighborhood where 5 of the first 10 people I ran into on the street could sell me crack? Yeah, I'd probably be a bit concerned. But I don't live or work in those places nor do I hang around in them. Its really not something I ever lose sleep over.
Quote from: hrdlr110 on October 04, 2015, 08:34:56 AM
In 30 years of mass shootings, the number of times a shooter was neutralized by an armed civilian is zero.
Not true.
http://controversialtimes.com/issues/constitutional-rights/12-times-mass-shootings-were-stopped-by-good-guys-with-guns/ (http://controversialtimes.com/issues/constitutional-rights/12-times-mass-shootings-were-stopped-by-good-guys-with-guns/)
Quote from: Johan on October 04, 2015, 11:08:38 AM
Not true.
http://controversialtimes.com/issues/constitutional-rights/12-times-mass-shootings-were-stopped-by-good-guys-with-guns/ (http://controversialtimes.com/issues/constitutional-rights/12-times-mass-shootings-were-stopped-by-good-guys-with-guns/)
And 208,000+ people have been killed by mass shooters in the past 30 year. It just don't seem to balance out.
Too many Americans with Clint Eastwood fantasies ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2TFs0SRWi8
No gun required, just a short distance and the top of a cast iron stove ;-)
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on October 04, 2015, 11:40:40 AM
And 208,000+ people have been killed by mass shooters in the past 30 year. It just don't seem to balance out.
I did not make the claim that it balances out. I simply showed that the statement in question is false. If you're going to make an argument, tell the truth.
Are you making the claim that its ok to lie/distort facts in order to support your argument so long as the true facts you're distorting/lying about wouldn't solve the problem in question?
Quote from: Baruch on October 04, 2015, 01:08:54 PM
Too many Americans with Clint Eastwood fantasies ...
How many gun owners do you actually know personally?
Quote from: Johan on October 04, 2015, 02:03:24 PM
Are you making the claim that its ok to lie/distort facts in order to support your argument so long as the true facts you're distorting/lying about wouldn't solve the problem in question?
That would be YOUR strawman, not mine.
Is it possible to be a gun owner, one who owns assault weapons no less, to be in favor or reasonable gun control measures, or are we all just crazy bastards to the antigun crowd?
Quote from: The Skeletal Atheist on October 04, 2015, 02:22:24 PM
Is it possible to be a gun owner, one who owns assault weapons no less, to be in favor or reasonable gun control measures, or are we all just crazy bastards to the antigun crowd?
Member of the anti-gun crowd here; I own several guns and would be considered by some here to be a "rabid anti-gunner", so nah you should be good.
Quote from: Shiranu on October 04, 2015, 03:03:42 PM
Member of the anti-gun crowd here; I own several guns and would be considered by some here to be a "rabid anti-gunner", so nah you should be good.
I was asking more or less sarcastically. It seems some anti-gunners like to characterize the gun owners as all crazed lunatics who don't care about gun violence. I see it pop up every time this debate comes up, and it gets highly annoying.
Quote from: The Skeletal Atheist on October 04, 2015, 02:22:24 PM
Is it possible to be a gun owner, one who owns assault weapons no less, to be in favor or reasonable gun control measures, or are we all just crazy bastards to the antigun crowd?
Many in the anti-gun crowd believe that no one should have guns except the military and the police. They are the crazy bastards not us.
Quote from: The Skeletal Atheist on October 04, 2015, 03:23:27 PM
I was asking more or less sarcastically. It seems some anti-gunners like to characterize the gun owners as all crazed lunatics who don't care about gun violence. I see it pop up every time this debate comes up, and it gets highly annoying.
The extreme ends of any debate do tend to make the most noise.
Quote from: Johan on October 04, 2015, 02:03:24 PM
I did not make the claim that it balances out. I simply showed that the statement in question is false. If you're going to make an argument, tell the truth.
Are you making the claim that its ok to lie/distort facts in order to support your argument so long as the true facts you're distorting/lying about wouldn't solve the problem in question?
It was somebody else's truth, and I did go to your link and it would seem that your number is also a lie. Many of those were off duty, but not untrained civilians. Three in the first 6 I read. So your number is also wrong! Bottom line, the more untrained people packing the more dangerous the situation. None qualified to identify the first shooter, where does that leave a handful of people with guns out ready to shoot?
There was no link supporting the figure I read, but it would appear to be much closer to the truth than your lie - which if you read, means that you knowingly lied......hypocrite!
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on October 04, 2015, 02:15:27 PM
That would be YOUR strawman, not mine.
Not a strawman. Just didn't understand the point of your post since I never made any claim about one balancing out the other.
Quote from: hrdlr110 on October 04, 2015, 04:12:26 PM
It was somebody else's truth, and I did go to your link and it would seem that your number is also a lie. Many of those were off duty, but not untrained civilians. Three in the first 6 I read. So your number is also wrong! Bottom line, the more untrained people packing the more dangerous the situation. None qualified to identify the first shooter, where does that leave a handful of people with guns out ready to shoot?
There was no link supporting the figure I read, but it would appear to be much closer to the truth than your lie - which if you read, means that you knowingly lied......hypocrite!
Oh for fucking fuckity fuck sake. I said AND I FUCKING QUOTE not true. That is THE ONLY FUCKING CLAIM I FUCKING MADE and I posted a link which shoes what I said TO BE FUCKING TRUE!. Get the fuck over yourself.
Quote from: Johan on October 04, 2015, 04:38:40 PM
Oh for fucking fuckity fuck sake. I said AND I FUCKING QUOTE not true. That is THE ONLY FUCKING CLAIM I FUCKING MADE and I posted a link which shoes what I said TO BE FUCKING TRUE!. Get the fuck over yourself.
What's the matter? I point out truthfully that you're a liar, and a hypocrite and you spit the dummy? I'll add asshole and crybaby to your list of credentials. Get the fuck over YOURSELF! Dick.
Quote from: CrucifyCindy on October 04, 2015, 03:41:28 PM
Many in the anti-gun crowd believe that no one should have guns except the military and the police. They are the crazy bastards not us.
How so? Tell me one document that says owning a gun is an unalienable right, a basic tenant of human rights.
Quote from: Shiranu on October 04, 2015, 05:01:37 PM
How so? Tell me one document that says owning a gun is an unalienable right, a basic tenant of human rights.
I don't need a document to tell me that a human being or community has the unalienable right to protect itself from harm by others (including those in authority) by any means necessary. All people have the right to self-determination and self-defense.
Quote from: CrucifyCindy on October 04, 2015, 05:13:13 PM
I don't need a document to tell me that a human being or community has the unalienable right to protect itself from harm by others (including those in authority) by any means necessary. All people have the right to self-determination and self-defense.
Fair enough. But your rate of being killed increases significantly once you own a gun, particularly if you are a woman. Statistically speaking, by buying a gun for self defense you are only putting yourself at a far greater risk. If you are actually interested in protecting yourself, you would buy a lock and some steel bars for your windows, not a gun... or just live in 99% of the United States that isn't so dangerous you would feel the need for even that. There are very few places in the United States a middle-class male needs to fear locking his door, much less owning a gun.
As for authority; good luck stopping the government with a 9mm or even an assault rifle. Shit, good luck stopping them with a full-on RPG. You do have to realise they have drones and tanks and a whole arsenal of weapons that have been specifically designed to make sure that nothing stands a chance.
Buying gun is not an act of self-determination, nor is it statistically an act of self-defense. It is a privilege, and good on us for having it... I like being able to go shooting whenever I want. But I also realise that, as a privilege, it really is not necessary in the least and if we want to be serious about protecting people's lives then we would ban guns tomorrow and never look back, because far too many "responsible gun owners" kill their wives, their children, themselves or other's in bursts of emotion. And, being a privilege, one person killed is one person too many to realistically let people keep it.
Quote from: hrdlr110 on October 04, 2015, 08:34:56 AM
So then you're not thoroughly anti gun. You'd become part of the problem instead of part of the solution. And in the US, for every time a gun is used for protection of self or ones family, it's used 44x against those very people it was meant to protect. In 30 years of mass shootings, the number of times a shooter was neutralized by an armed civilian is zero.
Let me rephrase, I should have said I'm not entirely anti-gun.
Depending on where you live, there are circumstances under which I cant begrudge people for acquiring a gun. Its only human, as there are certain urban sprawls where you may feel it is mandatory.
I dont blame them, as it is a situation not of their making.
Guns being readily available to criminals, that is the real problem.
Woefully inadequate registration measures, that is the real problem.
The NRA, with a long history of preventing studies that show the true insanity of the situation from being published, while spinning their own dishonest agenda;
Making outrageous and illogical claims such as the statement that more guns mean less crime;
Who stand to make a lot of cash by insuring they continue to have the final say on gun legislation in congress;
They are most certainly the real problem.
Beating a dead horse. Corporates and their toadies (called congress) will not allow any changes. Too much money being made.
I'm not against owning guns. But I have not seen any real reason why the general public needs to have military type weapons--assault weapons with 20/100 rounds per clip. Or why a reasonable registration procedure and requirements system can't be established. With as much money as is involved, common sense seems to not have a chance.
Quote from: Shiranu on October 04, 2015, 05:31:16 PM
Fair enough. But your rate of being killed increases significantly once you own a gun, particularly if you are a woman. Statistically speaking, by buying a gun for self defense you are only putting yourself at a far greater risk. If you are actually interested in protecting yourself, you would buy a lock and some steel bars for your windows, not a gun... or just live in 99% of the United States that isn't so dangerous you would feel the need for even that. There are very few places in the United States a middle-class male needs to fear locking his door, much less owning a gun.
As for authority; good luck stopping the government with a 9mm or even an assault rifle. Shit, good luck stopping them with a full-on RPG. You do have to realise they have drones and tanks and a whole arsenal of weapons that have been specifically designed to make sure that nothing stands a chance.
Buying gun is not an act of self-determination, nor is it statistically an act of self-defense. It is a privilege, and good on us for having it... I like being able to go shooting whenever I want. But I also realise that, as a privilege, it really is not necessary in the least and if we want to be serious about protecting people's lives then we would ban guns tomorrow and never look back, because far too many "responsible gun owners" kill their wives, their children, themselves or other's in bursts of emotion. And, being a privilege, one person killed is one person too many to realistically let people keep it.
My chances of being killed was already significanly increased by the virtue that I was born a person of color. Who am I to trust in regards to ensuring my right to self-determination and my right to personal safety if not myself and my community? Am I to trust the government? Well they are doing a piss poor job when it comes to protecting the rights of people of color. In fact for people of color the governemtn constitutes an oppressive force that has historically caused us harm. It is very easy for a white person to make statemetns like you have because you just do not have the experiences that people of color have.
Quote from: The Skeletal Atheist on October 04, 2015, 02:22:24 PM
Is it possible to be a gun owner, one who owns assault weapons no less, to be in favor or reasonable gun control measures, or are we all just crazy bastards to the antigun crowd?
We had a 15 year old muslim kid with an illegal unregistered pistol shoot a Police accountant on Friday, the Lindt siege muslim used an illegal unregistered outlawed sawn off pump action shotgun.
Both these cases have the Police baffled as to the origins of their illegal firearms, ammo is also highly regulated in Australia they had no trouble obtaining ammo.
Canada and New Zealand have both abolished long gun registration as it's costly it doesn't solve or prevent crimes, they say the money is better spent putting more Police on the street.
In Australia gun registration shows criminals are not using registered firearms.
Here is a Canadian politician who was for firearm registration when they first considered it and now he explains why it's a waste of time and money.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbBezsr2PEI
For those who claim Australia has had no mass shootings since our 1996 gun laws they should check out the Monash University shooting, the worst mass murders on the east coast of Australia were done by lighting a fire, the Childers backpacker fire and the Quakers hill nursing home fire.
Our second worst mass shooting was done with a single shot bolt action .22lr.
New Zealand has had no mass shootings since 1996, New Zealand allows hunters to have semi auto centrefire rifles with silencers for hunting.
Perhaps regulating who can have guns is more effective than regulating what they can have.
Quote from: CrucifyCindy on October 04, 2015, 06:31:19 PM
It is very easy for a white person to make statemetns like you have because you just do not have the experiences that people of color have.
Yes nice racebaiting ad hominem there. I guess I as white person would also have trouble understanding the need to own weapons for self defense because i live in a third world country in a city where people have been stabbed for pieces of bread and hatred towards white people is significant among the criminal population, and it's actually fueled by this type of bullshit rhetoric of "muh historic oppresion" "muh white devil" Maybe you should actually argue your point without the racebating ad hominem bullshit. Because your sentence clearly implies that his race makes it harder to for him understand because he has not personally lived it which is retarded, since we can construct reasonable arguments about a wide variety of topics even if we have never lived it, because we can actually study things. And the only pertinent response would be to address the argument not the race of the speaker, which is you know kinda... racist. So check your privilege.
QuoteIt is very easy for a white person to make statemetns like you have ...
I mean, I had a Latin Surname (diDio, eventually changed it because of harassment), I have a "foreign" first name, before I was adopted I was raised by a mother who's family was only about 10 years off the boat, grew up around Mexicans (who were culturally more similar to me than the whites), I had best friends whom's parents were illegal and lived in fear of deportation, who lived in shacks of two small rooms and about 6-7 people...I got harassed by the whites for not being "white" like them growing up (and often by the Hispanics for not being brown like them), grew up on the ghetto/bario side of the tracks... all in a town where I got to see rather constant drug related violence and don't think I went more than a year or two without one or more class mates getting shot... and once got to see a black man get pulled down main street with a rope around his ankles while the white guys driving hooted and hollered... a town where I was pulled over multiple times for "looking suspicious" and to do "routine drug searches"...
But yeah, tell me more about my life, please. Tell me more about how "white-y" me couldn't possibly have a clue about the plight of minorities. I understand there is a huge difference between the situation of African Americans and Hispanics, and I also realise that having grown up in two different cultures... I had it comparatively easy, my adopted family didn't struggle as bad and I am grateful for that....
But don't fucking come in here telling me about who I am or where I came from, when you don't know jack shit about me. And arguing because I have light skin I can't possibly be able to know or even sympathize with minorities? Fuck off with your racist bullshit.
Quote from: Johan on October 04, 2015, 02:05:16 PM
How many gun owners do you actually know personally?
I own, I know others who own ... some of whom have gun-philia ;-( Knowing thousands more wouldn't change anything. I don't want to have a gun, but circumstances have led to my having some. On the other hand, I have no reason to trust the criminals or the cops ... both are dangerously lunatic and armed. If I had to kill someone, I would rather use a dull knife and do it slowly .. but I would rather avoid the whole situation ... stay out of trouble, and hope my luck will hold awhile longer. And no, I don't have any Dirty Harry fantasies ;-)
I saw a guy the other day at a restaurant ... he was packing a handgun. Didn't bother me a bit. But I didn't challenge him to prove his license for open carry ... and I made damn sure I didn't accidentally spill my ice tea on him ;-)) America is Tombstone 1882 ... and the Cowboys and Lawmen are straddling both sides of the law ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGNdnlCbfMs
So the GOP refuses to address guns but have no problem taking away women's rights, non white, and non christian rights. Also the I am christian hastage is stupid as fuck. Apparently Christians are saying that we should all die for Christ because the reward in heaven will be good. I saw an article that basically tells parents of victims they should be happy their kid is with God. Sick
Quote from: hrdlr110 on October 04, 2015, 04:58:57 PM
What's the matter? I point out truthfully that you're a liar, and a hypocrite and you spit the dummy? I'll add asshole and crybaby to your list of credentials. Get the fuck over YOURSELF! Dick.
What did I fucking lie about? You said the number of mass murders halted by civilians was zero. And I said, wait for it.... Not true. That is all I said. Please show me how the words 'not true' are a fucking lie.
You posted a link saying the number is 12 - also not true. Read your own link, not all were civilians. Given the number of mass shootings in the last 30 years, my zero vs your tiny percentage represented by your <12 isn't very significant - certainly not significant enough to call me a liar. And you did.
I think one of the problems with counting mass shootings that have been stopped is that a mass shooting stopped before it happens is not a mass shooting.
That being said I can't help but find it reactionary when the conversation only seems to happen after one, and when it's mainly geared towards assault rifles.
Very few people are killed in mass shootings compared to overall murders.
Most people killed by gun murders are killed by pistols. Most people killed knew their killer in some way. A good amount were poor. Interestingly enough, more people die by gun suicides than by murders.
Mass murderers for some reason don't attack uniformed cops at a 7-11 or attack an NRA convention or a gun show but for some reason attack children in schools or a community college where there are no armed guards. Or a theater full of teenagers or a high school. Thing is, it isn't a high noon thing with Gary Cooper it is an attack against the unarmed and the defenseless. Which speaks to the type of person who does it.
Perhaps there might be something in a screening process that would look at backgrounds on people to see if there were reasons not to sell them firearms. Rather than, say, create ways to sell more guns faster.
This shit will carry on as long as America continues to see dead kids as an acceptable price for owning a tool whose primary function is killing.
Quote from: hrdlr110 on October 04, 2015, 10:21:41 PM
You posted a link saying the number is 12 - also not true. Read your own link, not all were civilians. Given the number of mass shootings in the last 30 years, my zero vs your tiny percentage represented by your <12 isn't very significant - certainly not significant enough to call me a liar. And you did.
Fair enough then. How 'bout this. You were wrong. Happy now?
Quote from: stromboli on October 05, 2015, 02:09:20 AM
Perhaps there might be something in a screening process that would look at backgrounds on people to see if there were reasons not to sell them firearms. Rather than, say, create ways to sell more guns faster.
Perhaps there should. The problem of course is that lots of mass murders are committed with weapons which belong to someone other than the murderer. Its still a good idea to do some kind of screening to try to disqualify those who are emotionally unstable or whatnot. But we can't expect that alone to solve the problem.
And that's probably one of the reasons this issue is so tough to crack. Because there is no one single solution. There is no one single law that would solve the problem. You need a group of different laws which all work in tandem with one another. You also need something which much more difficult to achieve. You need a fundamental shift in the culture. And I'm not talking about the gun culture here. I'm talking about whatever that thing is which exists in our current culture that makes certain suicidal people want to hurt others and make headlines in the course of carrying out their suicide. We need to figure out where that attraction comes from and then figure out how to eliminate it from our culture.
That, or a complete and absolute ban. But if you're going to go for a ban, you'd better be able to show in no uncertain terms how your ban is going to eliminate every single last illegally owned gun from the street BEFORE you go after any of the legally owned guns or you could be in for quite an uprising IMO.
Quote from: Shiranu on October 04, 2015, 07:42:44 PM
I mean, I had a Latin Surname (diDio, eventually changed it because of harassment), I have a "foreign" first name, before I was adopted I was raised by a mother who's family was only about 10 years off the boat, grew up around Mexicans (who were culturally more similar to me than the whites), I had best friends whom's parents were illegal and lived in fear of deportation, who lived in shacks of two small rooms and about 6-7 people...I got harassed by the whites for not being "white" like them growing up (and often by the Hispanics for not being brown like them), grew up on the ghetto/bario side of the tracks... all in a town where I got to see rather constant drug related violence and don't think I went more than a year or two without one or more class mates getting shot... and once got to see a black man get pulled down main street with a rope around his ankles while the white guys driving hooted and hollered... a town where I was pulled over multiple times for "looking suspicious" and to do "routine drug searches"...
But yeah, tell me more about my life, please. Tell me more about how "white-y" me couldn't possibly have a clue about the plight of minorities. I understand there is a huge difference between the situation of African Americans and Hispanics, and I also realise that having grown up in two different cultures... I had it comparatively easy, my adopted family didn't struggle as bad and I am grateful for that....
But don't fucking come in here telling me about who I am or where I came from, when you don't know jack shit about me. And arguing because I have light skin I can't possibly be able to know or even sympathize with minorities? Fuck off with your racist bullshit.
She is not being racist. She is demonstrating the same train of thought other groups do which is wrong in my opinion and you explained it good enough. Whites or non whites believe they need guns to protect themselves for very similar reasons.
It's the same idea with mareketing stuff to people amd hype it up from every corner so it would be something a lot öf people think a crucial need in time. Add to that the general culture...result is the current picture.
It's exactly what Mike says. Too much money is at stake. Who care if people are killing each other. Coporate democracy.
Quote from: stromboli on October 05, 2015, 02:09:20 AM
Mass murderers for some reason don't attack uniformed cops at a 7-11 or attack an NRA convention or a gun show but for some reason attack children in schools or a community college where there are no armed guards. Or a theater full of teenagers or a high school. Thing is, it isn't a high noon thing with Gary Cooper it is an attack against the unarmed and the defenseless. Which speaks to the type of person who does it.
Perhaps there might be something in a screening process that would look at backgrounds on people to see if there were reasons not to sell them firearms. Rather than, say, create ways to sell more guns faster.
While trying to offer a gun control solution, you are actually making a perfect argument for a gun ban. Because that's the thing about a tool that its prime function is to kill and create violence. It's not about people. It's the possibility of countless situations that can occur and putting a fire arm in the equation.
Quote from: stromboli on October 05, 2015, 02:09:20 AM
Mass murderers for some reason don't attack uniformed cops at a 7-11 or attack an NRA convention or a gun show but for some reason attack children in schools or a community college where there are no armed guards. Or a theater full of teenagers or a high school. Thing is, it isn't a high noon thing with Gary Cooper it is an attack against the unarmed and the defenseless. Which speaks to the type of person who does it.
Perhaps there might be something in a screening process that would look at backgrounds on people to see if there were reasons not to sell them firearms. Rather than, say, create ways to sell more guns faster.
In Australia, after a high school massacre, the government moved to have very strict gun control. That was in 1996. There hasn't been that many massacres there since then. Go figure.
Quote from: CrucifyCindy on October 04, 2015, 06:31:19 PM
My chances of being killed was already significanly increased by the virtue that I was born a person of color. Who am I to trust in regards to ensuring my right to self-determination and my right to personal safety if not myself and my community? Am I to trust the government? Well they are doing a piss poor job when it comes to protecting the rights of people of color. In fact for people of color the governemtn constitutes an oppressive force that has historically caused us harm. It is very easy for a white person to make statemetns like you have because you just do not have the experiences that people of color have.
I agree with what you have stated. I, as a white person, cannot fully understand what you, as a person of color goes through. I have seen a lot in my years, from the 'Colored' signs in Alabama, to the 'melting pot' of Hawaii, and many places in between--but I have never lived in a skin of color.
Maybe I have selective memory here--but, except for the sniper of a few years ago, I do not remember the mass killings being done by a black person. Or a female. Mainly white males. I don't know what that means, if anything, but I find it interesting.
Perhaps ... unstable White males, in a culture that values them ... have less reason to have a breakdown. In a culture that devalues them (in the sense that they aren't the Master Race that is) their breakdowns are closer to the surface. Of course back in the day, White males could act out with a lynching or tar & feathering as part of a group, it wasn't a lone gunman. I prefer we sublimate our aggressions thru sports rather than KKK or crime.
Quote from: josephpalazzo on October 05, 2015, 08:35:15 AM
In Australia, after a high school massacre, the government moved to have very strict gun control. That was in 1996. There hasn't been that many massacres there since then. Go figure.
It was not a school massacre at Pt Arthur, it was a café and public streets, the offender was given a disability pension for mental illness over a decade before he went on a rampage, the offender never held a firearms licence.
The worst mass murders on the east coast of Australia were done with fire, the Childers backpacker fire and the Quakers hill fire, our second worst mass shooting done with a single shot bolt action .22lr had less deaths than these arson incidents.
Mass shootings since 1996 are Monash University,Hectorville shooting and Lockart shooting.
How bad was gun violence in Australia before our 1996 laws?
Firearm homicides-
1989- 80 victims
1990- 79 victims
1991- 84 victims
1992- 96 victims
1993- 64 victims
1994- 76 victims
1995- 67 victims
1996 -104 victims ( Over 30 of these done at Pt Arthur)
Gun laws imposed because of unlicensed mass murderer
1997-79 victims
2009- 37 victims
2010- 39 victims
2011- 31 victims
2012 -40 victims
www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/australia
In 1995 the year before our firearm laws were imposed we had 67 firearm homicides, in 2012 we had 40 firearm homicides.
New Zealand has had no mass shootings since 1996, NZ allows semi auto centrefire rifles with silencers for recreational hunting, New Zealand abolished long arm registration in 1983.
Quote from: baronvonrort on October 05, 2015, 09:35:38 PM
It was not a school massacre at Pt Arthur, it was a café and public streets, the offender was given a disability pension for mental illness over a decade before he went on a rampage, the offender never held a firearms licence.
The worst mass murders on the east coast of Australia were done with fire, the Childers backpacker fire and the Quakers hill fire, our second worst mass shooting done with a single shot bolt action .22lr had less deaths than these arson incidents.
Mass shootings since 1996 are Monash University,Hectorville shooting and Lockart shooting.
How bad was gun violence in Australia before our 1996 laws?
Firearm homicides-
1989- 80 victims
1990- 79 victims
1991- 84 victims
1992- 96 victims
1993- 64 victims
1994- 76 victims
1995- 67 victims
1996 -104 victims ( Over 30 of these done at Pt Arthur)
Gun laws imposed because of unlicensed mass murderer
1997-79 victims
2009- 37 victims
2010- 39 victims
2011- 31 victims
2012 -40 victims
www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/australia
In 1995 the year before our firearm laws were imposed we had 67 firearm homicides, in 2012 we had 40 firearm homicides.
New Zealand has had no mass shootings since 1996, NZ allows semi auto centrefire rifles with silencers for recreational hunting, New Zealand abolished long arm registration in 1983.
So, by your own admission, the number of deaths was effectively cut in half... not taking into account the population of Australia has increased by 5 million since the laws went in to place.
Sounds like it worked enough to be justified, if you value human life at all above, "Omg, I want it!".
Quote from: The Skeletal Atheist on October 05, 2015, 01:16:47 AM
I think one of the problems with counting mass shootings that have been stopped is that a mass shooting stopped before it happens is not a mass shooting.
That being said I can't help but find it reactionary when the conversation only seems to happen after one, and when it's mainly geared towards assault rifles.
Very few people are killed in mass shootings compared to overall murders.
Most people killed by gun murders are killed by pistols. Most people killed knew their killer in some way. A good amount were poor. Interestingly enough, more people die by gun suicides than by murders.
To go further on this, since no one seemed to address it:
If you took the assault rifles away, would that really prevent the majority of gun deaths? No. By the statistics, no.
It seems to me that to prevent gun violence in the US, we need to look at why people kill each other (and themselves) regardless of guns. Poverty, gangs, addiction, mental illness. Take away the guns and these problems will still exist. The violence will continue.
I'm not saying that gun control measures shouldn't be taken, by all means they should be. That being said focusing only on guns will not solve the problem, nor will proliferating guns everywhere.
We need to focus on our societal problems, but guns (and race, religion, and politics in general) are a scapegoat. The problem is not just gun violence, but violence in general.
I'm tired of one side saying we should ban certain types of guns while the other side says we should just all get a gun no questions asked. The elephant in the room is laughing like an ass.
Gun control? Yes, but until we can fix our society and culture the violence will continue. The one on one killings will continue. The suicides will continue. Take away the guns and you may get rid of mass killings, but that only shaves off a small amount of the overall death.
I don't have a problem with gun ownership nearly as much as nearly totally unregulated gun ownership. In most places in order to cut hair professionally you have to get a license and pass tests. VERY FEW people ever die as a result of an unregulated haircut. To drive a car in every single state you have to have a license and pass a test. And the list goes on and on of professional license requirements.
It's not a secret that guns are made specifically to kill people or to inflict serious bodily injury. They have several moving parts and need to be taken apart and cleaned periodically, but there is very little in ways of requirements for ownership or at the very least the ability to use one effectively without potentially killing innocent bystanders.. I'm ok with ownership. Fine. How about needing a special license to buy and use live ammunition?
Quote from: Shiranu on October 05, 2015, 10:34:10 PM
So, by your own admission, the number of deaths was effectively cut in half... not taking into account the population of Australia has increased by 5 million since the laws went in to place.
Sounds like it worked enough to be justified, if you value human life at all above, "Omg, I want it!".
"None of the 4 studies found evidence for an impact of the laws on a pre existing decline in firearm homicides,said Dr McPhedran"
www.sydney.edu.au/news/84.html?newsstoryid=2240
Firearm homicides were declining decades before our 1996 laws.
The USA has halved their firearm homicides in the last 2 decades by allowing concealed carry in states where it was not allowed, what was your firearm homicide rate in 1989 compared to today?
QuoteThe USA has halved their firearm homicides in the last 2 decades by allowing concealed carry in states where it was not allowed, what was your firearm homicide rate in 1989 compared to today?
Frankly, I am tired of creating tension for no reason, so this will be my last response. I have better things to invest my emotional time on.
A recent study has shown there is zero correlation between concealed carry and crime going either up or down so... yeah. And New York City does not allow CC as far as I know, and yet they cut crime dramatically... as has been pointed out here, it is a fair part cultural issues that need to be addressed. That said, I still don't think it is a privilege that can stand on it's own merits when there are, inarguably, more people who die because of more guns than less.
So what was your firearm homicide rate in 1989 , what is your firearm homicide rate in 2014,has it gone up or down and by how much?
Did you halve your firearm homicides by doing fuck all?
what is this? (http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2015/10/was_the_oregon_mass_shooting_an_islamist_attempt_to_assassinate_alek_skarlatos.html)
Assumptions?
Conspiracy?
Who knows?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-34428946
"There have been more "mass shootings" [defined as 3 or more people killed] than days of the year so far in 2015."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonkblog/wp/2015/10/01/2015-274-days-294-mass-shootings-hundreds-dead/
http://www.gunviolencearchive.org/
'Murica.
Quote from: Shiranu on October 05, 2015, 10:34:10 PM
So, by your own admission, the number of deaths was effectively cut in half... not taking into account the population of Australia has increased by 5 million since the laws went in to place.
How about showing the total number of violent deaths by any means, not just guns, before and after the ban?
Quote from: Fidel_Castronaut on October 06, 2015, 05:48:22 AM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-34428946
"There have been more "mass shootings" [defined as 3 or more people killed] than days of the year so far in 2015."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonkblog/wp/2015/10/01/2015-274-days-294-mass-shootings-hundreds-dead/
http://www.gunviolencearchive.org/
'Murica.
Americans when gun control is to be discussed...
(http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff277/josephpalazzo/wIrODmI1%202_1.jpg) (http://s243.photobucket.com/user/josephpalazzo/media/wIrODmI1%202_1.jpg.html)
Quote from: Shiranu on October 04, 2015, 07:42:44 PM
I mean, I had a Latin Surname (diDio, eventually changed it because of harassment), I have a "foreign" first name, before I was adopted I was raised by a mother who's family was only about 10 years off the boat, grew up around Mexicans (who were culturally more similar to me than the whites), I had best friends whom's parents were illegal and lived in fear of deportation, who lived in shacks of two small rooms and about 6-7 people...I got harassed by the whites for not being "white" like them growing up (and often by the Hispanics for not being brown like them), grew up on the ghetto/bario side of the tracks... all in a town where I got to see rather constant drug related violence and don't think I went more than a year or two without one or more class mates getting shot... and once got to see a black man get pulled down main street with a rope around his ankles while the white guys driving hooted and hollered... a town where I was pulled over multiple times for "looking suspicious" and to do "routine drug searches"...
But yeah, tell me more about my life, please. Tell me more about how "white-y" me couldn't possibly have a clue about the plight of minorities. I understand there is a huge difference between the situation of African Americans and Hispanics, and I also realise that having grown up in two different cultures... I had it comparatively easy, my adopted family didn't struggle as bad and I am grateful for that....
But don't fucking come in here telling me about who I am or where I came from, when you don't know jack shit about me. And arguing because I have light skin I can't possibly be able to know or even sympathize with minorities? Fuck off with your racist bullshit.
What are you going to tell me next? That you understand the pain of childbirth just because you know a guy who once passed a kidney stone?
Quote from: CrucifyCindy on October 04, 2015, 06:31:19 PM
It is very easy for a white person to make statemetns like you have because you just do not have the experiences that people of color have.
Quote from: CrucifyCindy on October 06, 2015, 05:04:57 PM
What are you going to tell me next? That you understand the pain of childbirth just because you know a guy who once passed a kidney stone?
ahh yess the oppression Olympics I'm so oppressed you can never know what is like to be me, therefore your argument is invalid hur dur!
(http://en.wikimannia.org/images/thumb/f/f8/Not_here_to_play_Oppression_Olympics_-_unless_I_can_win.jpg/400px-Not_here_to_play_Oppression_Olympics_-_unless_I_can_win.jpg)
BTW you are dismissing his lived experience that's like so.... problematic!
I will never be able to know how bad slavery was because I'm not a black slave!
oh wait but most black people alive right now neither are
Quote from: mauricio on October 06, 2015, 06:03:58 PM
BTW you are dismissing his lived experience that's like so.... problematic!
I've heard that "I am not prejudice, I have Asian friends" bull a million times before, and I still don't buy it. By the way Eminem does not fully understand the black experience in America either. So get over it.
Quote from: CrucifyCindy on October 06, 2015, 06:48:49 PM
I've heard that "I am not prejudice, I have Asian friends" bull a million times before, and I still don't buy it. By the way Eminem does not fully understand the black experience in America either. So get over it.
No one fully understands anything, our experience is always limited, absolute knowledge is a religious concept. You do not need to be a victim of crime to understand why a crime is bad, it's called ethics.
Quote from: mauricio on October 06, 2015, 06:55:16 PM
No one fully understands anything, our experience is always limited, absolute knowledge is a religious concept. You do not need to be a victim of crime to understand why a crime is bad, it's called ethics.
Oh for fuck's sakes! Who the fuck is arguing that? Did I mention anything about fucking ethics?
Quote from: CrucifyCindy on October 06, 2015, 06:58:52 PM
Oh for fuck's sakes! Who the fuck is arguing that? Did I mention anything about fucking ethics?
You implied white people have trouble understanding the struggle of members of other races due to injustices dealt upon them, using that to dismiss shiranu argument about gun control, which is pure ad hominem racebaiting bullshit. We can understand ethics and concepts like self-determination and the consequences of it's infringement. We can understand many topics without personally living them. Plus you have no idea what a person has lived through just because of their race and it is completely unrelated to the validity of their argument which is what you should be dealing with if you want a rational discourse.
Do we need a moratorium on this?!?!
Quote from: CrucifyCindy on October 06, 2015, 05:04:57 PM
What are you going to tell me next? That you understand the pain of childbirth just because you know a guy who once passed a kidney stone?
Lol. Okay.