I'm currently an 18yo senior in high school. I come from a very strict religious background. My whole family is ultra conservative and some of my relatives are pastors. I've been struggling for a year, with my beliefs. I started to question things and ask why or how questions only to get turned down. Church is super boring and a waste of time. I always come up with an excuse not to go. After doing some research, I came to the conclusion that churches are a business. I watched this awesome video from an atheist on YouTube and his commentary was exactly how I feel right now. Religion is bullshit. The bible is bullshit and written by men. Christians get on my nerves including my own family. At times I feel like there is no God, but then I feel alone and scared. I feel like I've been brainwashed. I keep challenging my family on certain things but they have no answers and just say leave it to God. I feel conflicted and frustrated. I want to tell them the bible is bullshit and I'm not sure if I believe there is a God. But it's risky. I still need a home and food. I have one more year left at home. Hopefully I can hold out til then. Unfortunately my parents want me to attend a christian college that's conservative. Ugh! They said it's important to spread the words of Christ and be around other christians to not let ungodly influences in. Just another attempted at brainwashing I guess. Thanks for reading! Glad I found this forum.
Welcome, TopCat!
My immediate family are kind of lukewarm about religion. But my aunts and uncles and cousins are all immersed in Christianity up to their eyeballs. Many are pastors or ministers and all are heavily involved in the church. I enjoy arguing with them. But, I never feel I'm no longer loved, or anything.
The feelings of fear and distress, when you think about God, or the Bible, in a negative light, are only natural. You
HAVE been brainwashed, and it will take time for your emotional responses to adjust. The fact that those emotions haven't frightened you back into submission already, shows that you are inclined to suppress them in favor of reason, and that's the best way to start. I hope you stick around for a while, as there is a lot to learn on this forum, for someone just coming to the realization that God is silly.
Reason and emotion go hand in hand, however. Here's a sarcastic little poem, I wrote, that invokes both:
"Impotent Omnipotent"
Solomon Zorn
God saw the workman, who fell in the chipper,
His thoughts are with the victim's family.
God hears the prayers, of children with cancer,
But he just lacks a medical degree.
God has such love for the faithful devoted,
To have them near, he let them crash their bus.
God stayed his hand, as a young heart exploded,
It's all part of his plan, you have to trust.
God knew beforehand, the planes' destinations,
The day the world watched the towers fall.
God can't be bothered with terror prevention,
When busy with the outcomes of football.
It was September after all...
God works his miracles, worship him for it,
And don't forget to pray for his assistance.
God is all-powerful, dare not ignore it,
For God is only faking nonexistence.
This one is a little drier, but it makes some points you can use:
“The Waterâ€
Solomon Zorn
Noah's ark was far too small,
Never could have held them all.
Far-off species would have needed
Shelter till the flood receded.
One thing I would like to know:
Where did all the water go?
Rain for forty days and nights,
Thirty-thousand feet in height,
Water rose around the earth,
Flooded its entire girth,
Killing everything that grows.
Where did all the water go?
Such a total saturation,
Flooding all of God's creation,
Would have killed the vegetation,
Changed the ocean's salination.
Fossil records do not show:
Where did all the water go?
Long before the dawn of sight,
Water has refracted light.
Spectrum could not first appear,
As the flooding disappeared.
Misty rainbows always glowed.
Where did all the water go?
Noah's story seems unlikely.
Doesn't it seem much more likely,
There was never such a deluge,
Nor an ark to give them refuge?
One thing they can never show:
Where did all the water go?
I hope the best for you, with your family situation. Just know that you're not alone.
Fortunately, I did not experience what you are experiencing. My parents were believers but let me explore whatever I wanted. My advice is not to confront your parents, no matter you say it won't change their core belief one iota. Stay low until you can leave and support yourself. Discourage them to send you to a Christian college by telling them straight forward that going to that college will be a waste of time, a waste of money and you're not going to let that happen. Good luck.
Welcome. Depending on what you want to major in, make sure if you must go to a Christian college that the credits are transferable. If they are not transferable, you have an argument to not go there, because the school is not legitimate. And also if you major in a science, you have an argument to go to a college or university that isn't centered around religion.
If the school is legitimate after the first year you can transfer to another school. I have a degree that was acquired from 2 different schools, so I know what I'm talking about. And like JP said, you might have to lay low until you can get out, but look to not make any commitments in school or otherwise that will hurt you down the road.
I was in my late teens when I started questioning the idea of religious belief also. Funnily enough, I worked in a Christian bookstore from the ages of 16-19, and that, coupled with going to college I think is what mostly sealed the atheist deal for me. I didn't admit I was an atheist for a long time even to myself, but in a way, I wish I had done it sooner. I'm 29 right now, and it caused a pretty big crisis in my family. I was outed on Facebook and the revelation had plenty of friends and family clutching their pearls, ready to have an intervention for my soul. Even relatives I assumed were pretty secular came out of the woodwork in favor of Jesus and church even though they hadn't sat in a pew in years. A lot of them got over it and agreed to at least be civil with me for my mom's sake, but it does make me sad that my aunt, who took me in for a time when I was super broke in college and was like my best friend makes excuses to avoid talking to me. If your family is as religious as you say, you're probably in for a lonely road. At 18, I probably wouldn't have cared because I was ready to get out of the house but the older I get and the farther down my own path I travel, the more I miss the people I had when I was young. I hope you can find a way to keep those relationships intact. A recent post on this forum made me realize how much I really do miss my family. Anyway, welcome. :)
Welcome, Top Cat. Hard place to be in with your family. But you can vent here. Hope you stick around.
Welcome to the forum. My parents were church goers but never hard core thumpers. Once Dad and I were working on a sunday across from a baptist church, we were methodists, but for some reason Dad said, "lets go to church" and as we walked into the church Dad said, "forgive them lord for they know not what they do" then he took two steps and looked up and said, "or me". I thought that was pretty funny. I was well on my way by then, but it brought it to the point that even christers think other christers are wrong.
It's just been so hard to keep my mouth shut. I so want to challenge my family on certain things but can't. I'm also not sure what to think about God. I keep trying to force myself to believe but then my mind says he's not real. But then the fear starts getting to me (where do we go after we die, how did this happen) It's so frustrating for me. Seriously I can't deal with christians anymore including my own family, but I have to. If I tell them I don't believe they might think I'm Satan or something and kick me to the curb. Can't have the younger ones not be brainwashed.
Quote from: TopCat on September 24, 2015, 05:57:47 PM
I'm also not sure what to think about God. I keep trying to force myself to believe but then my mind says he's not real.
I think that's the first step in realizing you're an atheist: you
want to believe, you just don't.
Quote from: TopCat on September 24, 2015, 05:57:47 PMBut then the fear starts getting to me (where do we go after we die, how did this happen) It's so frustrating for me.
That's usually the second step: if I don't believe in God,
then what? This one was harder for me because I too wondered what the after life was like. But imagine what the before life was like. Can you? You spent eternity not existing until you did, and after you die, I imagine it will be much the same. Usually this is where some run into existential crises, because if there's no afterlife, what's the meaning of life? People find meaning and happiness in different places. Some people are humanists, some relativists, some hedonists. I myself am more of a naturalist.
Quote from: TopCat on September 24, 2015, 05:57:47 PMSeriously I can't deal with christians anymore including my own family, but I have to.
For me this was the third step, where I kinda figured out the God thing was bullshit and I could still live a happy life without him but then felt dismayed over how much religion (not just Christianity in general) fucks up people, countries, and even the planet.
Welcome TopCat ... that was the name of the first cartoon I was allowed to watch, back in the 1950s ;-)
Go with the flow, don't drill holes in your boat, and bail it out when you have to ... eventually you and your family will be more mature ... don't force it, have patience. When you get out of the rapids you are in now, you will be in slow smooth water, just don't give up ;-)
Quote from: TomFoolery on September 24, 2015, 06:05:14 PM
I think that's the first step in realizing you're an atheist: you want to believe, you just don't.
That's usually the second step: if I don't believe in God, then what? This one was harder for me because I too wondered what the after life was like. But imagine what the before life was like. Can you? You spent eternity not existing until you did, and after you die, I imagine it will be much the same. Usually this is where some run into existential crises, because if there's no afterlife, what's the meaning of life? People find meaning and happiness in different places. Some people are humanists, some relativists, some hedonists. I myself am more of a naturalist.
For me this was the third step, where I kinda figured out the God thing was bullshit and I could still live a happy life without him but then felt dismayed over how much religion (not just Christianity in general) fucks up people, countries, and even the planet.
You know this is exactly how I feel. That's the only thing getting in the way. Fear. Fear of death, no heaven, having nothing to depend on when I'm sick, scared, sad. Fear that I might be wrong. Fear I'm truly on my own and have to accept that this might be it.
My birth mother and grandma died. It's scary and sad to think I'll never truly see them again. That there really isn't a heaven. Neither of them are looking down on me. I feel lied to. Christians always say you'll see them in heaven or its meant to be they're with God but what now? They're just dead. Maybe they might be reborn or something. I guess that comes from fear, I want to believe they're ok in another life. I hate that we have to die and there might not be anything to look forward to. But what if I'm wrong. So complicated.
I keep reading the Bible but it's so fake. Really who believes in this stuff. Prayer is such bs. Christians pray because they want to think they're doing something but they're not. I really started thinking with all these religions what's the real one? If I were born in a muslin family I would be Muslim. Christians believe anyone that's not christian is going to hell but the same can be said to them. Muslims believe anyone who isn't Muslim us going to hell. Jehovah witnesses believe only certain people go to heaven and anyone who isn't jehovah is going to hell. So basically by that logic christians aren't going to heaven. Religion is so complex.
Quote from: Baruch on September 24, 2015, 07:33:52 PM
Welcome TopCat ... that was the name of the first cartoon I was allowed to watch, back in the 1950s ;-)
Go with the flow, don't drill holes in your boat, and bail it out when you have to ... eventually you and your family will be more mature ... don't force it, have patience. When you get out of the rapids you are in now, you will be in slow smooth water, just don't give up ;-)
The 50s?? I'm young then :) Thanks for the advice
There more ways to look at life and death than have been presented to you. The first shock babies get, is when mother goes around the corner and we can't see her. We babies think that she has disappeared forever (which in baby terms is about the last 5 minutes). Then mother reappears. After multiple experiences, we realize that just we can't see our mother, that doesn't mean she has ceased to exist.
I am a pantheist myself. My mother is still with me, but my father is gone. I can't turn a corner and see my father. But has my father really gone? Or am I just being a baby ;-) Don't ask me to explain using quantum string theory, where mother or father goes when she has turned the corner ... I am just a baby. Of course eventually you will turn that corner too, but until then ... cry if you need to.
Welcome Topcat.
With atheism or agnosticism, its often a slow process of discovery. The reason many people follow religion is because of that feeling you said you had, fear, the fear of being alone or that this is the one life we have and nothing after it. Fear is what gives religions an edge in pulling people into them with stories and hokum to quell those fears, the same way how when a child is afraid of the dark, a mother will read them bedtime stories to sooth their fears.
Thats all religion is, a comforter blanket, because its easy to manipulate people with their fears.
Don't fear it though, whatever you believe or don't believe in. Most atheists who realize all religions have done is lie and manipulate, they realize the stories are just as much part of that, and it becomes an accepted thing. I myself take comfort not in an fictional afterlife, but in looking up in the sky at night and thinking about how vast the universe is, how even when we die, our matter is simply something reconstituted into something else, as it all came from stardust millions of years before.
The best thing to do in life is live it, experience the best life has for you, and not what people want you to do.
As for your parents, if you still live at home, the best thing to do is just pretend to go along with what they ask, pretend to still believe what they want you to believe, and when you can find a place of your own, you won't have to follow their beliefs anymore.
Quote from: Munch on September 28, 2015, 06:23:08 PM
Welcome Topcat.
With atheism or agnosticism, its often a slow process of discovery. The reason many people follow religion is because of that feeling you said you had, fear, the fear of being alone or that this is the one life we have and nothing after it. Fear is what gives religions an edge in pulling people into them with stories and hokum to quell those fears, the same way how when a child is afraid of the dark, a mother will read them bedtime stories to sooth their fears.
*** Yes this is exactly how I feel. Fear that I'm wrong. Fear that I can't lean on anything through hard times. Fear that this is it, there's no afterlife. Just fear.
Thats all religion is, a comforter blanket, because its easy to manipulate people with their fears.
** I actually picked up on this a while ago. Christians put fear in followers to prevent them from leaving. Hell is a place for sinners, gays, non believers. God doesn't like these people. If you marry a non christian then that's wrong in God's eyes. However to me that means the religion is weak. Why make people fear something if your religion is so strong? If God is so powerful?
Don't fear it though, whatever you believe or don't believe in. Most atheists who realize all religions have done is lie and manipulate, they realize the stories are just as much part of that, and it becomes an accepted thing. I myself take comfort not in an fictional afterlife, but in looking up in the sky at night and thinking about how vast the universe is, how even when we die, our matter is simply something reconstituted into something else, as it all came from stardust millions of years before.
** See I'm terrified of death. I'm terrified to think the ones I love aren't in heaven or alive in the afterlife. That I'll never see them again. That they're just dead gone forever. I think that's what's keeping me forcing to believe the afterlife.
The best thing to do in life is live it, experience the best life has for you, and not what people want you to do.
*** I totally agree. I was watching this atheist video on YouTube. I agreed with everything he said. There's no guarantee of an afterlife. What if you die and that's it. You just wasted your whole life worshiping bullshit. What if your worshiping the wrong God? What if you're a christian and you fall in love with a nonbeliever or another person of faith, but your religion keeps you from having a relationship with them or marrying them? There's only one life to live. And religion keeps you from experiencing life fully due to bs rules and tactics.
As for your parents, if you still live at home, the best thing to do is just pretend to go along with what they ask, pretend to still believe what they want you to believe, and when you can find a place of your own, you won't have to follow their beliefs anymore. *** It's hard to pretend. I want to challenge them. I want to shout at them for lying to me. Because honestly I feel lied to. I did throw tons of questions at them, that they couldn't answer. Including the pastor. It's just getting harder to sit through this christian bullshit.
TopCat ... life is a scream ... we all scream when we emerge from our mothers. But with effort and experience, we can learn to both accommodate ourselves to the way things are, and to find ourselves too.
"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win." - Mahatma Gandhi
That is pretty tough! I would advise you to not confront your parents with your beliefs. As others have said, they will not change their minds, no matter what evidence you have. You will have needless arguments, tears and threats. Avoid all that.
Love them and accept that they have this delusion. It doesn't hurt you if they believe in God. As for college, work on getting a scholarship to the school you want to attend! That puts you in charge of where you go to school.
Live peaceably with other...listen to them and smile and believe what you believe. No harm in being pleasant and kind.
Good luck and I look forward to reading your post.