Atheistforums.com

Humanities Section => Political/Government General Discussion => Topic started by: SGOS on September 22, 2015, 08:31:36 AM

Title: Trump Still Favored in the Polls
Post by: SGOS on September 22, 2015, 08:31:36 AM
Early on in the media, and even in this forum, it was predicted that Donald Trump would implode.  I understand his popularity has slid a bit, but he's still in front of the pack.  This is not an endorsement.  I think the man is a reality show clown.  I agree that the political leadership in the US needs to be taken by the collar and given a good shake.  But by Donald Trump?  This campaign could be a sitcom.  Are things so bad in Washington DC that a political absurdity is more desirable than the substandard standard that currently exists.  It seems like someone with competence could step up to the plate and lend some dignity to the campaign.  But it looks like only a clown is capable of delivering the message.  This is mind boggling to me.
Title: Re: Trump Still Favored in the Polls
Post by: _Xenu_ on September 22, 2015, 08:37:22 AM
I believe Charlie Sheen even offered to be his veep. I agree that Trump is a joke, but this is definitely entertaining. It doesn't look good for the Republican party when they cannot even beat Donald Trump.
Title: Re: Trump Still Favored in the Polls
Post by: josephpalazzo on September 22, 2015, 09:15:40 AM
Quote from: SGOS on September 22, 2015, 08:31:36 AM
Are things so bad in Washington DC that a political absurdity is more desirable than the substandard standard that currently exists. 

Quote from: _Xenu_ on September 22, 2015, 08:37:22 AM
It doesn't look good for the Republican party when they cannot even beat Donald Trump.

Excellent. (just connecting the dots...;-)
Title: Re: Trump Still Favored in the Polls
Post by: _Xenu_ on September 22, 2015, 09:42:33 AM
Bwahahahaha. Trump / Sheen 2016!
Title: Re: Trump Still Favored in the Polls
Post by: Blackleaf on September 22, 2015, 10:23:39 AM
If Donald Trump is the one chosen to run for the Republican party, no one is going to be able to take them seriously any more. Maybe it'll wake people up to realize that they have more than just two options. ...Nah.
Title: Re: Trump Still Favored in the Polls
Post by: Mike Cl on September 22, 2015, 12:29:16 PM
Quote from: SGOS on September 22, 2015, 08:31:36 AM
It seems like someone with competence could step up to the plate and lend some dignity to the campaign. 
Wait, are we not talking the Rep. party here???  Since when did they have anybody who could meet that standard--competence and dignity?????
Title: Re: Trump Still Favored in the Polls
Post by: aitm on September 22, 2015, 12:35:37 PM
I think its a hoot. At least when he looks out of his jet he can see Russia.
Title: Re: Trump Still Favored in the Polls
Post by: stromboli on September 22, 2015, 01:17:01 PM
Well at least Walker is gone. More room in the clown car.
Title: Re: Trump Still Favored in the Polls
Post by: Draconic Aiur on September 22, 2015, 05:43:17 PM
Trump existence in this proves many people are dumb and racist.
Title: Re: Trump Still Favored in the Polls
Post by: AllPurposeAtheist on September 22, 2015, 09:21:44 PM
Interesting take in this week's Economist. The only qualifying credential is zero experience in actual politics.

QuoteTHIS is a humbling election season for folk who think they understand American politics. A rather hangdog mood duly hung in the air at the second Republican presidential debate on September 16th, hosted by the Reagan Library in southern California. The assembled strategists, spin doctors and journalists watched the field of 15 candidates variously flub their lines or deliver zingers and, as is conventional on these occasions, tentatively drew up rankings of winners and losers.

By conventional rules, the season’s shock front-runner, Donald Trump, had an iffy night. After months of climbing in the polls with a mixture of boasting, bigotry and abuse for rivalsâ€"a style The Donald referred to on debate night as “braggadocious”â€"he was floored by a withering put-down from Carly Fiorina, a former technology chief executive whose looks he had earlier slighted. Ms Fiorina, who used to run Hewlett-Packard, a computer firm, swatted aside Mr Trump’s claims that he had not meant to insult her with a brisk: “I think women all over this country heard very clearly what Mr Trump said.” The billionaire property tycoon blushed a crimson red, and stammered that he thought Ms Fiorina “beautiful.”



Jeb Bush, a former governor of Florida who was once expected to be dominating the contest by this point in the cycle, also had a so-so evening. Mr Bush landed a couple of blows, but could not shake his habit of lapsing into wonkish jargon. A low point came during a long and emotional discussion of abortion, when Mr Bush (a devout Catholic) vowed to cut federal funding for abortion providers by restoring a Reagan-era legal interpretation of a budget line he named as “Title X of the HHS funding”. Senator Marco Rubio of Florida had a good night, countering Mr Trump’s nasty nativism with a touching tribute to an immigrant grandfather who spoke Spanish, and used that language to teach the young Marco to love America.

For the professional pundit crowd in the spin room and press tent where Lexington spent the evening, it was harder to reach a clear verdict about Ben Carson, a retired paediatric neurosurgeon and stern Christian conservative, who is in second place in many polls after closing fast on Mr Trump. Mr Carson’s style is low-key to the point of near-somnolence. He was anything but impressive when it came to explaining his plans for a flat tax (“It’s all about America,” he mumbled drowsily, before attacking progressive tax rates as “socialism”).

The problem for pundits is that opinion polls have proved conventional judgments wrong again and again this season, as Republican primary voters flocked to candidates whose merits are hard to identify. For several months, the key to the mystery seemed to lie in anger. Voters are angrier than ever before with Washington and the political class, it could be stated with confidence. According to this theory Republican voters in 2016 are a bit like the Tea Party in 2009 and 2010. They loathe Barack Obama and the Democrats with a passion and despise Republicans in Congress for failing to thwart him, despite controlling both the House of Representatives and the Senate. That rage is joined by seething suspicion of any promises made by politicians.

Off with their heads

There is some evidence for this theory. Polls show majorities of Republicans scorning political experience and saying they want an outsider to shake up Washington. Governors and senators and other grandees who thought they had worked out how to woo conservatives, by stressing their records of unyielding right-wing purity, found their years in office being held against them (while the same angry voters seemed willing to forgive Mr Trump any number of breaks with conservative orthodoxy, from his past donations to Democrats to his calls to whack hedge-fund bosses with higher taxes). So low-trust is the mood among Republican voters that several White House hopefuls, in an effort to pander to them, spent more time attacking each other than denouncing the Democrats. Standing at a podium in front of the gleaming airliner used by Ronald Reagan as Air Force One, Governor Bobby Jindal of Louisiana cast caution to the wind, ignored Reagan’s “11th commandment” about never speaking ill of fellow-Republicans and declared: “I am angrier at the Republicans in DC than I am at the president.” Given the current mood coursing through his party, the remark made sense.

But even this theory needs revising. For while Republican voters are exceedingly angry and mistrustful, their lynch-mob rage is selective. Mr Carson could hardly be less fiery (though he primly disapproves of many things), yet he is surging. And the same conservative activists who disbelieve the establishment on all fronts are startlingly willing to give outsider candidates like Mr Trump, Mr Carson or Ms Fiorina, the benefit of the doubt. So highly trusting are rank-and-file Republicans thatâ€"to the despair of pundits and fact-checkersâ€"they shrug when Mr Trump refuses to provide any details about how he would handle foreign affairs, breezing that once he is president: “I will know more about the problems of this world”. Nor do they seem fussed to be told that Ms Fiorina’s time as a CEO was marked by massive job losses, after a bungled merger. A fourth anti-establishment candidate, Senator Ted Cruz of Texas, seems able to tap into this mood of strangely extravagant trust, by playing up his credentials as a serial rebel and critic of party leaders in the Senate.

Republican primary voters are not in a revolutionary mood, then, but a regicidal one. They think their rulers are corrupt, inept and mendacious, if not actually treasonous. But they are at the same time ready to swoon before new rulers promising to fix America in an instant. The key credential required to earn that trust is a lack of experience. Will those outsiders disappoint their followers in their turn, triggering a still deeper loss of public trust? Probably. This is going to be a bumpy year.

From the print edition: United States


]
Title: Re: Trump Still Favored in the Polls
Post by: Shiranu on September 23, 2015, 06:48:07 AM
I really did think he would fade by now, but I would say one thing that has helped Trump is just how... fucking...flakey and just bad his opposition has been. In the Republican party, he is the only one who has any sense of integrity and consistency, even if it is absolutely shitty consistency. That has helped him alot I think.
Title: Re: Trump Still Favored in the Polls
Post by: AllPurposeAtheist on September 23, 2015, 10:23:35 AM
If trump is your idea of integrity you really need your integrity meter checked up on.
Title: Re: Trump Still Favored in the Polls
Post by: PickelledEggs on September 23, 2015, 10:34:48 AM
Well, going by the morons that I see saying that they like Trump...

Everyone that likes Trump likes him because he "tells it like it is". There isn't much other than that for reason why they like him, as far as I'm aware... although I'm only going by some of the idiots I have as facebook connections. No one I see is talking about his policies.
Title: Re: Trump Still Favored in the Polls
Post by: Termin on September 23, 2015, 01:21:36 PM
Quote from: AllPurposeAtheist on September 23, 2015, 10:23:35 AM
If trump is your idea of integrity you really need your integrity meter checked up on.

Actually he does integrity merely means "The quality of being honest and having strong moral principles " he has been very upfront and very consistent with his beliefs, and as far as we know honest about them.

  This doesn't mean his morals are good, just that they are strong.

 
Title: Re: Trump Still Favored in the Polls
Post by: Baruch on September 25, 2015, 06:48:53 AM
Trump/Carson 2016 ;-) ... provided that if there is sequestration next week, that Ted Cruz' fingerprints are all over it.
Title: Re: Trump Still Favored in the Polls
Post by: AllPurposeAtheist on September 25, 2015, 09:26:17 PM
An interesting take by Frank Rich of NY Magazine about the Trump fiasco and the last paragraph may just be spot on. .
QuoteEven if this drama does not play out to the convention, the Trump campaign has already made a difference. Far from being a threat to democracy or a freak show unworthy of serious coverage, it matters because it’s taking a much-needed wrecking ball to some of what has made our sterile politics and dysfunctional government as bankrupt as Trump’s Atlantic City casinos. If that’s entertainment, so be it. If Hillary Clinton’s campaign or the Republican Party is reduced to rubble along the way, we can live with it. Trump will not make America great again, but there’s at least a chance that the chaos he sows will clear the way for those who can.

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2015/09/frank-rich-in-praise-of-donald-trump.html
Title: Re: Trump Still Favored in the Polls
Post by: aitm on September 25, 2015, 09:36:22 PM
Even I like Trump for his bullshit. He is not afraid, (or too stupid) or (very savy) ro touch the very heard of many american who are fucking tired of being jacked off. This is Teddy Bear shit here, he is running the Rooster , and that mother fucker may very well surprise us all.


No, I don't like him or want his as president, but I like that he is full in and not stroking your underwear.
Title: Re: Trump Still Favored in the Polls
Post by: AllPurposeAtheist on September 25, 2015, 09:46:40 PM
The funny part is so many people who think of themselves as liberal and progressive also make the same mysoginystic jokes and flip off people routinely. There is nothing unique to republicans in that respect. The thing I do like about the campaign is that it's flipping off the entire prepackaged "political event" aspect of elections.
Title: Re: Trump Still Favored in the Polls
Post by: aitm on September 25, 2015, 10:00:32 PM
Trump is as much a "republican" as I am, he doesn't give a fuck about a political party, he cannot win as a democrat, given his history and the way he makes his money, and the pubs field is like someone shooting a shotgun in a candy shop and the shit that flies out the window is the choices. He has a very good chance of getting the primary. Seriously, this guy against the bitch? I like his chances. Nobody likes hillary.
Title: Re: Trump Still Favored in the Polls
Post by: AllPurposeAtheist on September 25, 2015, 10:06:55 PM
Yeah ..the rest have about as much appeal as ..well,  they have no appeal. Even shit sandwiches have more appeal with or without bread.
Title: Re: Trump Still Favored in the Polls
Post by: stromboli on September 25, 2015, 10:15:51 PM
Based on what I've read and followed, my opinion of Trump is that he is about 6 parts ego 3 parts BS and (maybe) 1 part brain. Beyond that I have no respect for him.
Title: Re: Trump Still Favored in the Polls
Post by: Shiranu on September 26, 2015, 03:37:26 AM
I don't see any point in respecting someone just because they are an asshole, and that is the only reason anyone likes Trump (besides the rare few who think he is a savvy businessman).

The guy is a spoiled man-child who was never told no and thinks far too much of himself. The only benefit is he has money... and what good is that much money if you are still a terrible human being?
Title: Re: Trump Still Favored in the Polls
Post by: Hydra009 on September 26, 2015, 03:44:33 AM
Quote from: aitm on September 25, 2015, 09:36:22 PM
Even I like Trump for his bullshit. He is not afraid, (or too stupid) or (very savy) ro touch the very heard of many american who are fucking tired of being jacked off. This is Teddy Bear shit here, he is running the Rooster , and that mother fucker may very well surprise us all.


No, I don't like him or want his as president, but I like that he is full in and not stroking your underwear.
Sometimes, I ask myself if Trump would appeal to voters if he had ten bucks in his bank account instead of millions.  The answer that I arrive at is no.
Title: Re: Trump Still Favored in the Polls
Post by: josephpalazzo on September 26, 2015, 06:14:26 AM
Quote from: Hydra009 on September 26, 2015, 03:44:33 AM
Sometimes, I ask myself if Trump would appeal to voters if he had ten bucks in his bank account instead of millions.  The answer that I arrive at is no.

That's what puts Trump in a different category. All other candidates are tied to their donors: as long as the donors pour in money, they can keep up with their campaign. Of course if they can't increase their numbers in the next polls, the money will dry up, and the candidate has no choice but to drop out. Not so with Trump. He is not tied to any donors since he uses his own money. If he drops out, it will be on his own decision, when he realizes he is going to lose money without a chance of winning, but it will his decision, not someone else.
Title: Re: Trump Still Favored in the Polls
Post by: stromboli on September 26, 2015, 11:32:58 AM
Quote from: josephpalazzo on September 26, 2015, 06:14:26 AM
That's what puts Trump in a different category. All other candidates are tied to their donors: as long as the donors pour in money, they can keep up with their campaign. Of course if they can't increase their numbers in the next polls, the money will dry up, and the candidate has no choice but to drop out. Not so with Trump. He is not tied to any donors since he uses his own money. If he drops out, it will be on his own decision, when he realizes he is going to lose money without a chance of winning, but it will his decision, not someone else.

^this. The question to me is at what point the loss of money in a useless campaign trumps (sorry) his egotistical desire for being in the spotlight and trying to be a political force. He is ego driven to a point, and his decisions down the road will show when common sense overrides the ego. How many millions he is willing to expend to build his brand, offset by money wasted for a losing cause. He will go until it is obviously pointless to go further, but will garner as much press and selling his brand as he can.
Title: Re: Trump Still Favored in the Polls
Post by: josephpalazzo on September 27, 2015, 04:35:35 PM
Latest poll:

NBC/WSJ poll on GOP race: Trump 21 (+2 since July) Carson 20 (+10) Rubio 11 (+6) Fiorina 11 (+11) Bush 7 (-7) Kasich 6 (+3) Cruz 5% (-4)

It's getting tighter. I guess Carson scored a big one with his "No Muslim should be president". What will the Don do?
Title: Re: Trump Still Favored in the Polls
Post by: Baruch on September 27, 2015, 05:42:18 PM
OK, given the trending ... Carson/Trump 2016 ;-)  Is Carson more acceptable because he isn't a lawyer, not a career politician, had a decent education, is Black and Conservative?  I personally have no problem with American Muslims ... but would you think an acceptable candidate in the 1944 presidential election would have been a Japanese-American?  And given that he is in politics, is his religion more than skin deep?  Huckabee/Santorum/Cruz are maybe more than skin deep.
Title: Re: Trump Still Favored in the Polls
Post by: Shiranu on September 27, 2015, 07:27:23 PM
QuoteI personally have no problem with American Muslims ... but...

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/I'm_not_prejudiced,_but...

To use your analogy, I fail to see where we are at war with Islam, or indeed how one even could be. Like saying, "War on Drugs", it makes absolutely no sense.
Title: Re: Trump Still Favored in the Polls
Post by: Baruch on September 28, 2015, 12:28:05 AM
War on X ... American policy has made no sense for 70 years now ... haven't you noticed?  Being post-WW II ... I have no problem with Japanese Americans either ... Shinto or Buddhist.  I try not to invent imaginary enemies, since the real ones keep me busy ;-)
Title: Re: Trump Still Favored in the Polls
Post by: hrdlr110 on September 28, 2015, 03:57:04 AM
Quote from: Shiranu on September 26, 2015, 03:37:26 AM
I don't see any point in respecting someone just because they are an asshole, and that is the only reason anyone likes Trump (besides the rare few who think he is a savvy businessman).

The guy is a spoiled man-child who was never told no and thinks far too much of himself. The only benefit is he has money... and what good is that much money if you are still a terrible human being?

You can run your campaign on a slogan of not being beholden to the corporates. However, he may be considered a corporate himself, so as usual, he's a tad hypocritical. Him being president sort eliminates the middle man! (Lobbyists)
Title: Re: Trump Still Favored in the Polls
Post by: hrdlr110 on September 28, 2015, 04:03:32 AM
Quote from: stromboli on September 26, 2015, 11:32:58 AM
^this. The question to me is at what point the loss of money in a useless campaign trumps (sorry) his egotistical desire for being in the spotlight and trying to be a political force. He is ego driven to a point, and his decisions down the road will show when common sense overrides the ego. How many millions he is willing to expend to build his brand, offset by money wasted for a losing cause. He will go until it is obviously pointless to go further, but will garner as much press and selling his brand as he can.

His attempt at relevance by making straight talk (name calling etc) gives him free air time other candidates don't get. He's largely had to spend less for more air time just because he's trump the train wreck.
Title: Re: Trump Still Favored in the Polls
Post by: Hydra009 on September 28, 2015, 05:27:26 AM
Quote from: josephpalazzo on September 27, 2015, 04:35:35 PM
Latest poll:

NBC/WSJ poll on GOP race: Trump 21 (+2 since July) Carson 20 (+10) Rubio 11 (+6) Fiorina 11 (+11) Bush 7 (-7) Kasich 6 (+3) Cruz 5% (-4)
Remember when Bush had a shot?  You're doing pretty bad when you're the worst politician in the Bush family.
Title: Re: Trump Still Favored in the Polls
Post by: Baruch on September 28, 2015, 06:18:19 AM
Don't count ... that the R-convention won't be fixed ;-(
Title: Re: Trump Still Favored in the Polls
Post by: josephpalazzo on September 28, 2015, 07:14:28 AM
Quote from: Baruch on September 27, 2015, 05:42:18 PM
OK, given the trending ... Carson/Trump 2016 ;-)  Is Carson more acceptable because he isn't a lawyer, not a career politician, had a decent education, is Black and Conservative?  I personally have no problem with American Muslims ... but would you think an acceptable candidate in the 1944 presidential election would have been a Japanese-American?  And given that he is in politics, is his religion more than skin deep?  Huckabee/Santorum/Cruz are maybe more than skin deep.

What's striking between Trump and Carson is that they are opposite in character: one bombastic, the other, calm. It's as if the party is bi-polar. Now, in 1944, people were prejudiced, even though they didn't know it. It was part of the culture. Hollywood, which was dominated by the Russian Jews, had a policy: no more than one Jew in a film. Doing anything more than that would give away that their movies weren't really about American culture. Blacks had their own squadron in the army, etc. Just about everyone was prejudiced, racist, xenophobic. That was par for the course. If anything, Carson's stand on the Muslim question shows we haven't evolved that much: We won't elect a person from the country/religious group that recently attacked us.
Title: Re: Trump Still Favored in the Polls
Post by: josephpalazzo on September 28, 2015, 09:18:05 AM
Quote from: Hydra009 on September 28, 2015, 05:27:26 AM
Remember when Bush had a shot?  You're doing pretty bad when you're the worst politician in the Bush family.

Jed Bush recent pronouncements indicates that he is on the trail campaign just to justify his brother's policies. It also indicates that the people backing him are more or less the same people who stood behind his brother, the ones with the "trickle-down economics really works" and pre-emptive strikes keeps America safe". Americans were fooled once, they certainly can be fooled twice. Disgusting.
Title: Re: Trump Still Favored in the Polls
Post by: AllPurposeAtheist on September 28, 2015, 10:23:57 AM
With all the secret money flowing into campaigns I doubt tRump is really using all of his own money. He's using free publicity a lot, but it's nearly impossible to actually track it. He can claim it's his own money, but the reality is it's mostly network money which isn't his own money.
Title: Re: Trump Still Favored in the Polls
Post by: Baruch on September 28, 2015, 06:40:28 PM
Quote from: josephpalazzo on September 28, 2015, 07:14:28 AM
What's striking between Trump and Carson is that they are opposite in character: one bombastic, the other, calm. It's as if the party is bi-polar. Now, in 1944, people were prejudiced, even though they didn't know it. It was part of the culture. Hollywood, which was dominated by the Russian Jews, had a policy: no more than one Jew in a film. Doing anything more than that would give away that their movies weren't really about American culture. Blacks had their own squadron in the army, etc. Just about everyone was prejudiced, racist, xenophobic. That was par for the course. If anything, Carson's stand on the Muslim question shows we haven't evolved that much: We won't elect a person from the country/religious group that recently attacked us.

This ... genius political observation.  The US has always been schizoid.  But each generation creates its own garage band.
Title: Re: Trump Still Favored in the Polls
Post by: wolf39us on September 29, 2015, 07:07:49 AM
Let's make America great again!