Is there a general consensus on how this was done? Because if not, I have a theory that fits it perfictly.
Light was not created, it just is, with photons of energy.
Be interested to see what this theory is new guy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aU6rp2HfE8M
I got into a debate about creation being flawed on a youtube video. And while we can dumb every other flaw down to something men would have understood back then, I've yet to see anyone do the same for the first creation of "light".
How is it possible to have light, it be attributed to day, and not have a sun? Looking from a perspective that the stars, sun, and moon, were later created as mere "lights" placed in the vault of the sky, and that the sun was to govern over a "light" of day that was already created, you can tell that this light of day and sun are treated as if they are not the same. So if you look up in the sky today, you can attribute it to being day without having direct sunlight, when you have a complete overcast of the sky. And I'm sure Moses was able to see that when he blocked direct light from the sun, it would cast a shadow, but still be visible because of this "light" of day. His view was that the whole sky being lit up during the day was a "light" all it's own, and the sun was only a "greater" light.
Quote from: ProtoGlenn on September 07, 2015, 03:34:41 PM
Is there a general consensus on how this was done? Because if not, I have a theory that fits it perfictly.
If a photon field is created, you'll get light without the sun.
Quote from: ProtoGlenn on September 07, 2015, 04:25:11 PM
I got into a debate about creation being flawed on a youtube video. And while we can dumb every other flaw down to something men would have understood back then, I've yet to see anyone do the same for the first creation of "light".
How is it possible to have light, it be attributed to day, and not have a sun? Looking from a perspective that the stars, sun, and moon, were later created as mere "lights" placed in the vault of the sky, and that the sun was to govern over a "light" of day that was already created, you can tell that this light of day and sun are treated as if they are not the same. So if you look up in the sky today, you can attribute it to being day without having direct sunlight, when you have a complete overcast of the sky. And I'm sure Moses was able to see that when he blocked direct light from the sun, it would cast a shadow, but still be visible because of this "light" of day. His view was that the whole sky being lit up during the day was a "light" all it's own, and the sun was only a "greater" light.
Welcome, Glenn. Usually I hope for a long stay................................but do you even know what type of forum you are posting to? I tend to think not. You seem to think that the babble is correct in any of it's statements, especially the creation stories. It is a myth, a legend borrowed from other myths and legends. It is a story thought up to explain the 'why' of the natural world of that time. You seem to think it factual. And it has no more fact behind it than Paul Bunyan does. You think Moses was a real person--and he was no more real than Fred Flintstone. You really want to 'debate' about cartoon characters????
Quote from: josephpalazzo on September 07, 2015, 04:48:33 PM
If a photon field is created, you'll get light without the sun.
I don't understand what a photon field is. Is it a light that is strong enough to be a light that makes ups daylight, and is this photon field still making up our daylight? Because Christians often say that god sustains his creation, I'd assume if he created this photon field, that we'd be able to see it still.
Quote from: Mike Cl on September 07, 2015, 04:50:36 PM
Welcome, Glenn. Usually I hope for a long stay................................but do you even know what type of forum you are posting to? I tend to think not. You seem to think that the babble is correct in any of it's statements, especially the creation stories. It is a myth, a legend borrowed from other myths and legends. It is a story thought up to explain the 'why' of the natural world of that time. You seem to think it factual. And it has no more fact behind it than Paul Bunyan does. You think Moses was a real person--and he was no more real than Fred Flintstone. You really want to 'debate' about cartoon characters????
How did anything I write lead you to believe that I believe in the bible at all? I said I got into a debate about the bible, not that I believed any of it. My stance on it is that it is a man made religion, and the very idea of the god in the bible to also be man made. And by pointing out the logical errors in creation were made by Moses' point of view on how things worked back in that time, makes there "god" an idiot or Moses is trying to explain away what he doesn't understand with "because god".
Basically
When and electron gains energy it moves to a higher energy level, then drops back to the ground state releasing its excess energy as light.
Wiki has a good list of what can create light
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_light_sources#Mechanoluminescence
Quote from: Termin on September 07, 2015, 05:05:24 PM
Basically
When and electron gains energy it moves to a higher energy level, then drops back to the ground state releasing its excess energy as light.
Wiki has a good list of what can create light
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_light_sources#Mechanoluminescence
None of that explains a light strong enough or even sustained for long enough to be a light source to light up the sky and be considered "daylight" without a sun. In fact, that first creation of "light" had no visible feature to describe other than it was separate from the darkness of night. And Mechanoluminescence, might be the best interpretation of how Moses described this "light" of day. He considered the backdrop of the sky during day, as a light of it's own. And he had to add that into creation, as basis for cataloging creation by time through the passing of days.
The sun is dying, as are all stars. Yes, there are others you know. Many many others. They are all dying. God cannot sustain them as he does not exist.
Quote from: aitm on September 07, 2015, 05:34:08 PM
The sun is dying, as are all stars. Yes, there are others you know. Many many others. They are all dying. God cannot sustain them as he does not exist.
That's a good point, I'll have to remember that the next time I get into a debate and they bring up that god sustains his creations.
Quote from: ProtoGlenn on September 07, 2015, 04:56:00 PM
I don't understand what a photon field is. Is it a light that is strong enough to be a light that makes ups daylight, and is this photon field still making up our daylight? Because Christians often say that god sustains his creation, I'd assume if he created this photon field, that we'd be able to see it still.
Well, it's an egg-chicken situation: which came first the photon field or the photon particle? I'm afraid that science has no answer. But I was answering the question in the title, Creation of light without a sun? Now how a photon field would be created, I have absolutely no clue. BUT QFT says that in addition to photon fields, there are quark fields, electron fields, neutrino fields, Higgs fields, and so on. Particles are excited states of ripples of these fields. So, no word on which one was created first, fields or particles. But all that shows is that whoever wrote the bible was a fucking ignorant!
Quote from: josephpalazzo on September 07, 2015, 05:42:13 PM
Well, it's an egg-chicken situation: which came first the photon field or the photon particle? I'm afraid that science has no answer. But I was answering the question in the title, Creation of light without a sun? Now how a photon field would be created, I have absolutely no clue. BUT QFT says that in addition to photon fields, there are quark fields, electron fields, neutrino fields, Higgs fields, and so on. Particles are excited states of ripples of these fields. So, no word on which one was created first, fields or particles. But all that shows is that whoever wrote the bible was a fucking ignorant!
My question also asks how it ties into being considered light of "day". Can what you just described to me be a source of light that rotates around our planet and provides the planet with sustained daylight like the sun does in actuality (*edit: not that the sun rotates around us at all)? Or is this just diversion tactic by bringing up unrelated science to explain nothing. If you have read the bible and understand where I'm deriving my question from, you'd know I'm talking about the "light" described as being daylight without a sun. And since this light was moving across the sky with night following it and later this "light" returning to track time, can this science that was brought up be related at all?
*Edit: Also, I'm looking to discredit the fallacious creation theory, by showing the inaccuracy of their knowledge of science during that time. You seem to proposing a much higher scientific explanation, of something I know very little about and am not sure if it ties in with what the debate is about at all.
Quote from: ProtoGlenn on September 07, 2015, 06:43:07 PM
My question also asks how it ties into being considered light of "day". Can what you just described to me be a source of light that rotates around our planet and provides the planet with sustained daylight like the sun does in actuality? Or is this just diversion tactic by bringing up unrelated science to explain nothing. If you have read the bible and understand where I'm deriving my question from, you'd know I'm talking about the "light" described as being daylight without a sun. And since this light was moving across the sky with night following it and later this "light" returning to track time, can this science that was brought up be related at all?
Theoretical, one could have a photon field that could spread throughout everywhere in space. But if one goes along with GR, you can't have matter/energy without space-time, and vice-versa. So a universe with just a photon field would be kind of weird. Now the sun is on a fusion cycle by which it combines matter (hydrogen), fused it into a heavier element (helium), and the difference between the masses of these two elements is converted to light (photon particles) which spread out through out space, and the earth happens to be in the path of those photons. That creates our daylight. But the sun, and all the stars, are late comers into the universe - they formed billions of years after the so-called inflation period according to the Big Bang theory. So photon fields were around way before our sun.
Quote from: ProtoGlenn on September 07, 2015, 05:36:39 PM
That's a good point, I'll have to remember that the next time I get into a debate and they bring up that god sustains his creations.
The other week, I was talking to my five year old nephew about the earth and how old it is, when he asked how old. Eventually it came around to him asking "Will the earth be here forever and ever and ever?", so which I haphazardly changed the subject. Telling a sensitive five year old that one day the sun will go supernova and destroy our solar system, including our planet, might be a bit much for him to take in.
Not to dispute ... modern light theory is being "adequately" presented ... but so Glenn can understand Genesis better ... and welcome ProtoGlenn ;-) I think a more direct approach to the Genesis question is better.
In the Bible and in science before AlHazen in Egypt 1000 years ago ... light and enlightenment were synonymous. It was believed that sight went from the soul in the head, out the eyes and to the object being viewed. Perception happened before sensation. Of course in modern terms, since AlHazen ... we understand it goes the opposite way ... from sensation to perception. This is the missing link as to why Genesis has light created before the Sun and Moon ... because this light isn't the modern concept, it is the light of consciousness, not the light of physics. The light mentioned in the NT is the same concept, light of consciousness.
Munch - I am glad you save the realism for your nephew's later development. There are lots of things that children less than 13 have no business knowing. But you could have been a little less literal .. and just say that the Sun has been here a long time in the past, and is expected to be here a long time into the future. But Joseph Palazzo would have wanted you to explain nuclear physics first ;-)
Quote from: Baruch on September 07, 2015, 07:19:20 PM
Not to dispute ... modern light theory is being "adequately" presented ... but so Glenn can understand Genesis better ... and welcome ProtoGlenn ;-) I think a more direct approach to the Genesis question is better.
In the Bible and in science before AlHazen in Egypt 1000 years ago ... light and enlightenment were synonymous. It was believed that sight went from the soul in the head, out the eyes and to the object being viewed. Perception happened before sensation. Of course in modern terms, since AlHazen ... we understand it goes the opposite way ... from sensation to perception. This is the missing link as to why Genesis has light created before the Sun and Moon ... because this light isn't the modern concept, it is the light of consciousness, not the light of physics. The light mentioned in the NT is the same concept, light of consciousness.
Munch - I am glad you save the realism for your nephew's later development. There are lots of things that children less than 13 have no business knowing. But you could have been a little less literal .. and just say that the Sun has been here a long time in the past, and is expected to be here a long time into the future. But Joseph Palazzo would have wanted you to explain nuclear physics first ;-)
I like that, but I never see anyone debate creation of "light" as anything but an impossibility. And Christians don't like there to be impossibilities or unknowns, so they "have" to believe in their "god". But what I've learned when applying that theory into a debate, I was countered with criticism directed at me and being called uneducated for seeing it that way. But they never dispute it as being wrong or why. And no matter how I try to direct there attention back to the theory, and ask them to dissect it and show me what is wrong with it, they continue to ignore it and tell me I've never read the bible and I'm just a bigot and so on. But fact is, I was force fed the bible just out of elementary school where I was placed in a private Christian school. I may have believed it for a time out of dogma, but when I grew older and could see the errors in the bible for myself, I wandered away from it and eventually dropped it as nothing more than a fairytale.
You have the soul of a poet. Give it water and sun day by day and it will grow ... whatever you may mean by soul. But if you want to dispute with Bible thumpers, you must be more educated in religion than they are ... or they will not listen. And even in the best of circumstances, only the open minded and intelligent will be moved. But where do you want to move them to?
Proof texting is but a poor education ... if you will come to know what it was that the writers of the Bible meant ... not that you need to believe it, but that you must put your hand into their hand as a friend, not an enemy ... with compassion ... then you will see, however distant such people may appear or their uneducated followers ... that we all have common cause.
Quote from: ProtoGlenn on September 07, 2015, 08:01:20 PM
I like that, but I never see anyone debate creation of "light" as anything but an impossibility. And Christians don't like there to be impossibilities or unknowns, so they "have" to believe in their "god". But what I've learned when applying that theory into a debate, I was countered with criticism directed at me and being called uneducated for seeing it that way. But they never dispute it as being wrong or why. And no matter how I try to direct there attention back to the theory, and ask them to dissect it and show me what is wrong with it, they continue to ignore it and tell me I've never read the bible and I'm just a bigot and so on. But fact is, I was force fed the bible just out of elementary school where I was placed in a private Christian school. I may have believed it for a time out of dogma, but when I grew older and could see the errors in the bible for myself, I wandered away from it and eventually dropped it as nothing more than a fairytale.
Welcome, and I wish you luck in attempting to convince any creationist on anything which he doesn't wish to believe. Which is the basic problem when arguing with theists - if they were approaching the conversation from any reasonable standpoint, then they would not be able to sustain their position. Creationism, Intelligent Design, and other wacky ideas attempt to sustain the position that our existence cannot be of natural origin, therefore godditit. When your mind is made up that your god is real, and that he made this universe and the life within it, any information to the contrary can be used in support of your beliefs for as long as unknowns exist - just whip out your God-In-A-Can and spray in that gunk until all the holes in your understanding are filled, and then no matter what others tell you your position will still make perfect sense to you. It's the "miracle" of human cognitive bias!
Is this guy under the assumption that light only comes from the sun? What about campfires and ceiling lights?
Quote from: PickelledEggs on September 08, 2015, 12:09:02 AM
Is this guy under the assumption that light only comes from the sun? What about campfires and ceiling lights?
I believe light comes from gods love. But he is bi-polar, so half the time we are in the darkness of his hate. That is the only explanation for a light without a sun.
Quote from: ProtoGlenn on September 08, 2015, 04:29:54 AM
I believe light comes from gods love.
The god you believe is man made? I think we're done here.
Quote from: ProtoGlenn on September 08, 2015, 04:29:54 AM
I believe light comes from gods love. But he is bi-polar, so half the time we are in the darkness of his hate. That is the only explanation for a light without a sun.
Still being poetic? If so, I certainly understand, but literalist readers might not ;-)
Quote from: Munch on September 07, 2015, 07:14:56 PM
The other week, I was talking to my five year old nephew about the earth and how old it is, when he asked how old. Eventually it came around to him asking "Will the earth be here forever and ever and ever?", so which I haphazardly changed the subject. Telling a sensitive five year old that one day the sun will go supernova and destroy our solar system, including our planet, might be a bit much for him to take in.
You'd be surprised how resilient are kids. I have a nephew, he's 6 years old. He already knows about evolution, life and death. It's no big deal if you don't make it a big deal.
Quote from: Baruch on September 07, 2015, 07:19:20 PM
But Joseph Palazzo would have wanted you to explain nuclear physics first ;-)
My nephew knows every element of the periodic table - its name and its atomic number. Before that he was into capitals and country flags. Before that he was into the names of every dinosaurs. You should see him play the cello, and he's only 6. You do no favors to the child by shielding him.
Quote from: ProtoGlenn on September 08, 2015, 04:29:54 AM
I believe light comes from gods love. But he is bi-polar, so half the time we are in the darkness of his hate. That is the only explanation for a light without a sun.
Lol are you joking? That's a pretty funny one if you are.
Sent from your mom.
Quote from: ProtoGlenn on September 08, 2015, 04:29:54 AM
I believe light comes from gods love. But he is bi-polar, so half the time we are in the darkness of his hate. That is the only explanation for a light without a sun.
Then how come there is never any mention of the sun going away when he's pissed off ? which has happened many times.
Quote from: ProtoGlenn on September 07, 2015, 08:01:20 PM
I like that, but I never see anyone debate creation of "light" as anything but an impossibility.
Try asking them why a god would ever consider the need for light in the first place. Supposedly god has existed "forever" before anything else existed, meaning of course light as well. What would make a god need light? What would make god conceive of light if it never existed?
I know .. I know .. Mr Wizard! If G-d is anthropomorphic and really old .. as an old man myself, it is really Hell trying to find the potty in the dark ;-)
Quote from: Baruch on September 08, 2015, 06:25:16 PM
I know .. I know .. Mr Wizard! If G-d is anthropomorphic and really old .. as an old man myself, it is really Hell trying to find the potty in the dark ;-)
Have you overlooked the possibility of luminescent toilet paper?
(http://www.skynews.ca/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/toilet-tissue-universe.jpg)
well don't get me started on jealousy and hatred and fear. How would something understand human emotions before humans were invented? But more importantly, how could a god, the most powerful ever, that has been in existence forever, without anybody or anything to challenge it….understand fear? Or death?
It can't. That is why humans are superior to the "creator". The can sacrifice themselves for others while god can only wish he had such courage.
Quote from: aitm on September 08, 2015, 06:47:55 PM
well don't get me started on jealousy and hatred and fear. How would something understand human emotions before humans were invented? But more importantly, how could a god, the most powerful ever, that has been in existence forever, without anybody or anything to challenge it….understand fear? Or death?
It can't. That is why humans are superior to the "creator". The can sacrifice themselves for others while god can only wish he had such courage.
Didn't he send his son to be sacrificed? So there!
Quote from: josephpalazzo on September 08, 2015, 06:49:44 PM
Didn't he send his son to be sacrificed? So there!
yeah, rat bastard "sacrificed" his son from a smelly-ass goat herder to a fucking god…..don't we all wish eh?
aitm - for me you are stating a false dichotomy. Humans express G-d's humanity, for better or worse, and are more than slavish automatons, but have free will .. as does G-d. If humans want a better G-d, then they need to behave better.
Quote from: Baruch on September 08, 2015, 07:14:14 PM
aitm - for me you are stating a false dichotomy. Humans express G-d's humanity, for better or worse, and are more than slavish automatons, but have free will .. as does G-d. If humans want a better G-d, then they need to behave better.
god says we are created in his image, which would suggest we would share his jealousy, rage, anger and fear. Except the obvious, that as none of these ever existed prior to humans existence, god would have to imagine these emotions prior to our "creation" or actually be capable of these emotions which makes him more human and far less of a god. How could a god understand true fear when there is no way even god could experience true fear?
G-d experiences true fear, every time you do. We are G-d's semi-autonomous teledildonics ... think of Sims, only better.
Quote from: Baruch on September 08, 2015, 08:35:26 PM
G-d experiences true fear, every time you do. We are G-d's semi-autonomous teledildonics ... think of Sims, only better.
Not likely, they don't exist remember?
I have a copy of Sims on my computer ;-)
Off topic, but I don't see the appeal of the bible at all. I mean, even if you did believe in any of it, wouldn't it warn you that nothing is for sure? Didn't G-d break his promise with Abraham? What's to say that if there was a heaven, that he'd let anyone in at all or not cast you out at a later time? Angels have fallen from his grace, what's to say mankind wont do the same in the end? The only way I can see it being possible is if they were stripped of their free will, and to me that doesn't sound like an eternity of happiness at all. It seems like a lot of pointless sacrifices for something that isn't for sure, or isn't appealing.
Quote from: Baruch on September 08, 2015, 08:35:26 PM
G-d experiences true fear, every time you do. We are G-d's semi-autonomous teledildonics ... think of Sims, only better.
You contradicted yourself there - in a previous post you said we are
not automatons, as opposed to merely "semi-autonomous".
Quote from: Baruch on September 08, 2015, 07:14:14 PM
aitm - for me you are stating a false dichotomy. Humans express G-d's humanity, for better or worse, and are more than slavish automatons, but have free will .. as does G-d. If humans want a better G-d, then they need to behave better.
Humans express their own humanity (or lack of it) in the gods they create. If you are going to insist that any gods are more real than vampires, banshees, broomstick-riding witches, or 6-foot and bipedal rabbits, then it's you who needs to submit evidence for such a claim.
I tend to be suspicious of people who self-proclaimed to be an apologist for a divine entity.
Quote from: peacewithoutgod on September 09, 2015, 01:37:39 AM
You contradicted yourself there - in a previous post you said we are not automatons, as opposed to merely "semi-autonomous".
You will need to quote that ... and I will need the Papal Curia to throw some apologetics at it ... bwahaha!
Quote from: peacewithoutgod on September 09, 2015, 01:45:10 AM
Humans express their own humanity (or lack of it) in the gods they create. If you are going to insist that any gods are more real than vampires, banshees, broomstick-riding witches, or 6-foot and bipedal rabbits, then it's you who needs to submit evidence for such a claim.
Yes, we express our humanity is countless ways ... including in fancy religions (which are really unnecessary but I digress) ... and yes, pookas are quite real, in art, but not is science. But fortunately as per another thread, we will send all those pesky nerds (but not the master race geeks) to the concentration camps. Really, just a war between different corners of the Meyer-Briggs spectrum. Can't we all get along? I can do multiple aspects of Meyer-Briggs and not be a war with myself ... at least on most days ;-)
Quote from: josephpalazzo on September 09, 2015, 06:46:56 AM
I tend to be suspicious of people who self-proclaimed to be an apologist for a divine entity.
I couldn't agree more. And I trust apologists for capitalism even less ... the "hidden hand" is Goldman Sachs (who says they are just doing god's work ... well they are ... Mammon (a goddess BTW)). Not to say that there isn't something better than fictional characters ... there is, they are called real characters. But bibliophiles have a hard time distinguishing between the two ;-))
Quote from: ProtoGlenn on September 08, 2015, 10:41:32 PM
Off topic, but I don't see the appeal of the bible at all. I mean, even if you did believe in any of it, wouldn't it warn you that nothing is for sure? Didn't G-d break his promise with Abraham? What's to say that if there was a heaven, that he'd let anyone in at all or not cast you out at a later time? Angels have fallen from his grace, what's to say mankind wont do the same in the end? The only way I can see it being possible is if they were stripped of their free will, and to me that doesn't sound like an eternity of happiness at all. It seems like a lot of pointless sacrifices for something that isn't for sure, or isn't appealing.
Why the appeal of Moby Dick? Why do non-whalers bother? The Bible is ancient Jewish literature ... and polemical. Why do Gentiles bother?
Psst - we are angels, and we fall from grace multiple times each day. The silly idea from Aristotelian physics, is that if we were celestially pure, our bodies would float up into the sky toward the celestial crystalline spheres ... like smoke from the Red Heifer sacrifice altar .. something nobody will talk about. I for one am glad that even if I were temporarily pure (pure kosher, pure Jewish) that I would start floating up in the sky like the guy who attached helium balloons to his lawn chair in LA some decades ago. I have a fear of heights!
Quote from: Termin on September 08, 2015, 04:30:55 PM
Then how come there is never any mention of the sun going away when he's pissed off ? which has happened many times.
There is light and then there is light. The darkness in the absence of God's love, is the absence of the light of God's love that shines on your heart. You know how good your heart feels when the light of God shines on it? This does not require photons. It doesn't require anything. It doesn't even require that there must be light. It's a different kind of light that has no light, but when it stops shining on your heart (this special light is not detected by your eyes), it makes you feel yucky, and you become depressed. This is the same light that you see when you die, but for some reason, you are not supposed to swim toward the light when you die. This is confounding. I'm not sure what this means. Does it mean that you should swim toward the darkness, or just stay put? If it's the light of God, shouldn't you swim towards it, or is the Devil playing a trick here? Lots to think about.
Jeebus explained it, the dark hate the light. But this is basic Kali-ma theology. Kali-ma looks like a monster as she approaches you (think of a great natural disaster) ... but this is because you are possessed by demons, and the ugliness you see and the fear you feel ... is from the demon possession, not from your true self. But when you finally let Kali-ma catch up to you, the demons are expelled (she is a demon killer) ... and then you experience beauty and attraction. At least that is how Durga theology works I think.
Quote from: josephpalazzo on September 09, 2015, 06:46:56 AM
I tend to be suspicious of people who self-proclaimed to be an apologist for a divine entity.
Quote from: Baruch on September 09, 2015, 07:05:08 AM
I couldn't agree more. And I trust apologists for capitalism even less ... the "hidden hand" is Goldman Sachs (who says they are just doing god's work ... well they are ... Mammon (a goddess BTW)).
False equivalence. Goldman Sachs might worship the all-mighty dollar, just as some people might worship Taylor Swift, but they are hardly in the same category as those who worship some" entity" who is on the same level as the Smurfs. The apologists of that entity are of the worst kind.
If the dollar seeks its intrinsic value ;-( ... then we shall see what is more worthless. Even the Smurfs were entangled in Smurf berries. Last time I looked, Mammona = Tyche = riches or good luck. Its worshippers might be in denial, but where your heart is, there your divinity is.
Quote from: Baruch on September 09, 2015, 01:24:52 PM
If the dollar seeks its intrinsic value ;-( ... then we shall see what is more worthless. Even the Smurfs were entangled in Smurf berries. Last time I looked, Mammona = Tyche = riches or good luck. Its worshippers might be in denial, but where your heart is, there your divinity is.
Dollar has relative value; the author(s) who created the Smurfs can do whatever; the heart is not divine but a pump to get your blood circulation flow and bring oxygen to your cells.
Quote from: Baruch on September 09, 2015, 07:02:23 AM
Yes, we express our humanity is countless ways ... including in fancy religions (which are really unnecessary but I digress) ... and yes, pookas are quite real, in art, but not is science. But fortunately as per another thread, we will send all those pesky nerds (but not the master race geeks) to the concentration camps. Really, just a war between different corners of the Meyer-Briggs spectrum. Can't we all get along? I can do multiple aspects of Meyer-Briggs and not be a war with myself ... at least on most days ;-)
We can all get along if you present evidence for the claims you make. You still haven't done that.
Quote from: ProtoGlenn on September 07, 2015, 05:27:00 PM
None of that explains a light strong enough or even sustained for long enough to be a light source to light up the sky and be considered "daylight" without a sun.
You have things backwards, we put labels on things to describe them as they already are ,things do not arrange themselves to match labels we place on them.
to try and figure out the mysteries of god is like to teach a ant to speak English.
Quote from: Babytooth on September 10, 2015, 06:12:55 PM
to try and figure out the mysteries of god is like to teach a ant to speak English.
...and you know this how? From what experience in trying this yourself have you to draw on? If you have no interest in the mysteries of this universe, making your life's mission an attempt to discourage others from learning what they can of it does not make you any more the wiser, and they all know it!
The question is why you as a man thinks so highly of yourself, bc you after all are just a creation. what makes you feel worthy to receive any true nugget of wisdom or knowledge after you have denied the one truth? just bc you was created you think you deserve? that's a joke you was given law to live by and you spit on them and said "I will not believe" you do not fear god! and the first step of wisdom and knowledge is fear of god, and to fear god is to HATE EVIL. thank YOU
NO ONE CAN CHANGE REALITY . and believe me peacewithout I want know the mysteries more than anyone I would argue. But I want to learn them from the one true source rather than being deceived from an "deceiving force you feel me?"
Its wild to me how you all cant feel that your"in your bodies" rather than being your body.
Babytooth ... I often feel out of my body, but my medication is helping with that ;-) Of course I can change reality ... earlier my hand was over here, and now it is over there (though still attached to the rest of me).
@ baruch man made chemicals are anchoring your true abilities brother. and causing deceivement the bible talks about Pharmacia and what it can do.
Baruch, please, you weren't meant to eat the mushrooms without people around you, remember what happened last time?
(http://i.imgur.com/YarTRV2.jpg)
@munch been there and done that too munch haha
Quote from: Babytooth on September 10, 2015, 08:24:25 PM
The question is why you as a man thinks so highly of yourself, bc you after all are just a creation. what makes you feel worthy to receive any true nugget of wisdom or knowledge after you have denied the one truth? just bc you was created you think you deserve? that's a joke you was given law to live by and you spit on them and said "I will not believe" you do not fear god! and the first step of wisdom and knowledge is fear of god, and to fear god is to HATE EVIL. thank YOU
NO ONE CAN CHANGE REALITY . and believe me peacewithout I want know the mysteries more than anyone I would argue. But I want to learn them from the one true source rather than being deceived from an "deceiving force you feel me?"
Its wild to me how you all cant feel that your"in your bodies" rather than being your body.
I can't answer for him, but for me it's cause I'm awesome :)
you're the exact opposite of awesome you actually inspire no awe lol
Quote from: Babytooth on September 10, 2015, 09:31:11 PM
you're the exact opposite of awesome you actually inspire no awe lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYws8biwOYc
Munch ... yes, that was me, near the center, with the tall hat ;-)
Quote from: Babytooth on September 10, 2015, 08:56:55 PM
@munch been there and done that too munch haha
...which is why you don't understand the difference between reality and fantasy. Your religion is the fantasy of dull sheep, just as are all of the god fantasies of all religions since the dawn of human agricultural society. If your god really existed outside of your heads and your buddies who share your fantasies, then he would surely despise you for never pulling your head out of your fantasy-infested ass and doing something of real, and long-term benefit to people and future generations on this earth. Only those who embrace reality as it can be observed by all, and own their responsibility for what they do here are capable of this.
we as peasants will never know how god came about, even after death I believe, so get used to that idea because we all have eternity ahead of us. will yours be bliss or torment?
but I ask of everyone to open up their eyes and understand that when we look up to the heavens we are looking trillions of miles away and beyond, for you can never look farther away than looking up! and open your eyes to relies that if our bodies didn't contain a soul than any man could be revived after death with new parts just like we can do any vehicle, that it is our everlasting soul that ignites are engine and makes us "Alive". realize That many humans out here have been blessed with actually seeing evil and good at work. Anton levy even admits that all other religions besides Christianity, are just a branch of Satanism , realize that all the things you see are less real than the current unseen to us. A matter a fact to quote Neils Bohr a highly regarded scientist " everything we call real is made up of things that cant be regarded as real" that's a fact. Realize over 2500 bible prophecies have been fulfilled and counting everyday! Understand that even Wisdom, Knowledge, and Understanding were created! and the spirit wisdom was created even before the depths! understand that Lucifer even deceived 1/3 of the angels of heaven during he's fall Angels that were in heaven! and how do you think so highly of your self to think you haven't been deceived. the bible says the people of the end times will be lovers of self. that they also will call good evil and evil good. no we see the gay marriage coming into affect, which I believe could be the abomination OF DESOULATION THAT WILL BE SET UP IN THE END TIMES. that will mark the start of the end. Blessed is he who believes without seeing.
Mark my Words Obama will be the last president of the united states, and you WILL SEE JESUS RETURN, and you will see the anti Christ rule unless your are going to be one of the very very many that are going to die in the very very near future. worldwide a" ELE" as the call it. this is my last message of tonight get right and EITHER WAY YOU CHOOSE,CHOOSE YE THESE DAY WHO YE WILL SERVE! Jesus is the savior of mankind period! do all the research you want, pray tonight and see! Now: God my Holy Father I Jesse ask that you please forgive me of all my awful sins that only you god know that I have committed, and I ask you lord that you have mercy on my soul father and lord god I ask you give all the men off this webpage a second chance father to except you and understand today they have heard the truth. I ask father that you bless these men that are not too far gone with a sign that your are willing to love them as you always have, and to open there shallow minds father to see farther than their senses tells them. I thank you Lord God in the name of Jesus Amen. I Love you Father Amen
I'm going to have to take a break and shut down my computer. My keyboard is drooling.
Quote from: Babytooth on September 10, 2015, 10:58:24 PM
we as peasants will never know how god came about, even after death I believe, so get used to that idea because we all have eternity ahead of us. will yours be bliss or torment?
but I ask of everyone to open up their eyes and understand that when we look up to the heavens we are looking trillions of miles away and beyond, for you can never look farther away than looking up! and open your eyes to relies that if our bodies didn't contain a soul than any man could be revived after death with new parts just like we can do any vehicle, that it is our everlasting soul that ignites are engine and makes us "Alive". realize That many humans out here have been blessed with actually seeing evil and good at work. Anton levy even admits that all other religions besides Christianity, are just a branch of Satanism , realize that all the things you see are less real than the current unseen to us. A matter a fact to quote Neils Bohr a highly regarded scientist " everything we call real is made up of things that cant be regarded as real" that's a fact. Realize over 2500 bible prophecies have been fulfilled and counting everyday! Understand that even Wisdom, Knowledge, and Understanding were created! and the spirit wisdom was created even before the depths! understand that Lucifer even deceived 1/3 of the angels of heaven during he's fall Angels that were in heaven! and how do you think so highly of your self to think you haven't been deceived. the bible says the people of the end times will be lovers of self. that they also will call good evil and evil good. no we see the gay marriage coming into affect, which I believe could be the abomination OF DESOULATION THAT WILL BE SET UP IN THE END TIMES. that will mark the start of the end. Blessed is he who believes without seeing.
Mark my Words Obama will be the last president of the united states, and you WILL SEE JESUS RETURN, and you will see the anti Christ rule unless your are going to be one of the very very many that are going to die in the very very near future. worldwide a" ELE" as the call it. this is my last message of tonight get right and EITHER WAY YOU CHOOSE,CHOOSE YE THESE DAY WHO YE WILL SERVE! Jesus is the savior of mankind period! do all the research you want, pray tonight and see! Now: God my Holy Father I Jesse ask that you please forgive me of all my awful sins that only you god know that I have committed, and I ask you lord that you have mercy on my soul father and lord god I ask you give all the men off this webpage a second chance father to except you and understand today they have heard the truth. I ask father that you bless these men that are not too far gone with a sign that your are willing to love them as you always have, and to open there shallow minds father to see farther than their senses tells them. I thank you Lord God in the name of Jesus Amen. I Love you Father Amen
:blahblah: :blahblah: :blahblah: :blahblah: :blahblah: :blahblah: :blahblah: :blahblah: :blahblah: :blahblah:
Holy art thou, most Almighty and Righteous :fsm:
:rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:
Quote from: Babytooth on September 10, 2015, 10:58:24 PM
Mark my Words Obama will be the last president of the united states, and you WILL SEE JESUS RETURN,
Nice trolling...
And here I thought that Dick Cheney was the anti-Christ ;-( Do I get a refund or something?
Jesus already returned, as Hunter S Thompson. To bad you all missed him! ;-)
Surely the Deity had a torch on his phone like the rest of us.
Quote from: 1liesalot on September 15, 2015, 08:35:05 AM
Surely the Deity had a torch on his phone like the rest of us.
There's absolutely nothing sure about a deity doing anything in particular... oh wait...