First, I've been an atheist since I can remember, and I believe in one world, one unity, meaning, total peace and everyone living and helping each other, no religion, no weapons, no borders, this planet is for everyone, regardless of color or creed.
Look at history and the present, wars happen because of religion, Hitler persecuted the Jews, the Irish fought each other (Catholic against Protestant), everyone says their region is the truth, and war breaks out because of it, look at most of the so called cults and organizations that have formed since as early as 1815 all based on religion, and the wars that are caused are all fought for the sake of religion.
Think about this, if current technology permitted us to travel the universe and found a very primitive planet, but it's inhabitants are socially acceptable, but we showed them something that's 1000 years ahead of their time, they would consider us gods, because the technology wouldn't even be thought of, and we wrote a book explaining would "could" happen if they didn't change their ways (much as the USA are telling Iraq), but someone saw that book and found out we are as human as they are and can be hurt, thus a group of people wanted to keep peace and decided these so called "gods" are not wanted and did the only thing they could do at the time, and since then, the book as been re-written, written again, words twisted, and re-written again and again, and over the centuries, the REAL truth has been completely wiped out.
As it's said, keep telling the same lie, and it becomes indistinguishable from the truth, and people would believe the various versions and make up their own meanings to them.
So, to conclude, if this world was totally without religion, there would be peace, and tranquility, everyone helping each other, there would be no famine, because countries would help each other, nobody would be helpless, as the strong would help the weak, people would be able to travel across countries with no boundaries, everyone would be able to communicate regardless of where they life, because people would teach each other their languages , THIS!! is the world as it should be, maybe it'll happen in 10,000 years when mankind has finally near but wiped themselves out, and the true people of peace will grow.
Wars also happen cuz you have stuff I want (like land and riches) or if I'm just pissed of at ya.
Quote from: "usalabs14"First, I've been an atheist since I can remember, and I believe in one world, one unity, meaning, total peace and everyone living and helping each other, no religion, no weapons, no borders, this planet is for everyone, regardless of color or creed.
Look at history and the present, wars happen because of religion, Hitler persecuted the Jews, the Irish fought each other (Catholic against Protestant), everyone says their region is the truth, and war breaks out because of it, look at most of the so called cults and organizations that have formed since as early as 1815 all based on religion, and the wars that are caused are all fought for the sake of religion.
Think about this, if current technology permitted us to travel the universe and found a very primitive planet, but it's inhabitants are socially acceptable, but we showed them something that's 1000 years ahead of their time, they would consider us gods, because the technology wouldn't even be thought of, and we wrote a book explaining would "could" happen if they didn't change their ways (much as the USA are telling Iraq), but someone saw that book and found out we are as human as they are and can be hurt, thus a group of people wanted to keep peace and decided these so called "gods" are not wanted and did the only thing they could do at the time, and since then, the book as been re-written, written again, words twisted, and re-written again and again, and over the centuries, the REAL truth has been completely wiped out.
As it's said, keep telling the same lie, and it becomes indistinguishable from the truth, and people would believe the various versions and make up their own meanings to them.
So, to conclude, if this world was totally without religion, there would be peace, and tranquility, everyone helping each other, there would be no famine, because countries would help each other, nobody would be helpless, as the strong would help the weak, people would be able to travel across countries with no boundaries, everyone would be able to communicate regardless of where they life, because people would teach each other their languages , THIS!! is the world as it should be, maybe it'll happen in 10,000 years when mankind has finally near but wiped themselves out, and the true people of peace will grow.
Way to scare the shit out of theists and play into their stereotypes with the title of this thread.
Exactly how should religion be "eliminated"? Arrest all theists? Murder all theists?
And what would make you think that if suddenly tomorrow all 7 billion of us were all atheists, do you think there would be no divisions at all? Because I can tell you there are atheists I disagree with. Ayan Rand was one atheist who has the same "let them eat cake" attitude Paul Ryan a Catholic politician in congress now has.
You think there are not capable of greed or murder, because if you go to a mostly atheist country, you still have prisons.
There are 7 billion people on this planet, and we are social animals and will always form groups. Our labels don't make us automatically good or bad. I agree that religion is a poison. But we ourselves cannot take on a utopia state attitude anymore than their utopias can be projected on us.
What we can do however is use reason, science, ridicule, debate and blasphemy. What we can to is keep an eye on religion and keep it at arms length so that it does not become fascist.
But we have never ceased to be a different species. If atheists forget that then we are doomed to repeat the same barbaric acts we say humans should get away from.
Morality is evolutionary based, not label based. Atheism is a position, not a moral code. We are still all individuals with different classes and political leanings, even atheists.
I would recommend reading "The New Atheism" by Victor Stenger and "The God Delusion" By Richard Dawkins. Our common humanity is not our labels, our common humanity is our evolution.
Humans will always be a range of behavior both good and bad. Our labels do not determine if we will do good or bad, only our actions do.
We cant seek utopias, no one should, no religion or political party. We can foster long term logic and critical thinking and better education. We can insist that no one deserves taboo status. But we cannot project ourselves on others anymore than we want them to project themselves on us.
Quote from: "usalabs14"So, to conclude, if this world was totally without religion, there would be peace, and tranquility, everyone helping each other, there would be no famine, because countries would help each other, nobody would be helpless, as the strong would help the weak, people would be able to travel across countries with no boundaries, everyone would be able to communicate regardless of where they life, because people would teach each other their languages , THIS!! is the world as it should be, maybe it'll happen in 10,000 years when mankind has finally near but wiped themselves out, and the true people of peace will grow.
Welcome. While obviously much more than just phasing out religion would be necessary to accomplish this, if it could ever be realistically accomplished at all. Though I do applaud your goal. Peace and tranquility. If only it were that easy.
Religion is not the only reason for war. As often as not it was the excuse.
Quote from: "usalabs14"First, I've been an atheist since I can remember, and I believe in one world, one unity, meaning, total peace and everyone living and helping each other, no religion, no weapons, no borders, this planet is for everyone, regardless of color or creed.
Look at history and the present, wars happen because of religion, Hitler persecuted the Jews, the Irish fought each other (Catholic against Protestant), everyone says their region is the truth, and war breaks out because of it, look at most of the so called cults and organizations that have formed since as early as 1815 all based on religion, and the wars that are caused are all fought for the sake of religion.
Think about this, if current technology permitted us to travel the universe and found a very primitive planet, but it's inhabitants are socially acceptable, but we showed them something that's 1000 years ahead of their time, they would consider us gods, because the technology wouldn't even be thought of, and we wrote a book explaining would "could" happen if they didn't change their ways (much as the USA are telling Iraq), but someone saw that book and found out we are as human as they are and can be hurt, thus a group of people wanted to keep peace and decided these so called "gods" are not wanted and did the only thing they could do at the time, and since then, the book as been re-written, written again, words twisted, and re-written again and again, and over the centuries, the REAL truth has been completely wiped out.
As it's said, keep telling the same lie, and it becomes indistinguishable from the truth, and people would believe the various versions and make up their own meanings to them.
So, to conclude, if this world was totally without religion, there would be peace, and tranquility, everyone helping each other, there would be no famine, because countries would help each other, nobody would be helpless, as the strong would help the weak, people would be able to travel across countries with no boundaries, everyone would be able to communicate regardless of where they life, because people would teach each other their languages , THIS!! is the world as it should be, maybe it'll happen in 10,000 years when mankind has finally near but wiped themselves out, and the true people of peace will grow.
Every religion except MY religion causes war. My religion is a religion of peace.
You say that it is not do you? Meet me at 12:30 AM on 03/15/2013 and I will show you a piece of my mind... WITH MY FIST!
No but seriously, religions do not cause wars in and of themselves. Competing interests cause wars. Religions are not innately competing interest unless outlined in their core theology.... which sufficient for your argument, many if not most religions have a non-compete clause somewhere in their contracts.
If you remove the religious justification for war, nations will simply find another justification for it.
^^
Nationalism and religion can be placed in the exact same category. Both lead to tall tales about fallen or even non-existing heroes.... both lead to undying loyalty which can spark the most irrational responses to crisis.
I will argue, however, that there is a place for nationalism, and even religion (I know, GASP) but far too often is their very meaning and purpose perverted to the ways of wicked men.
Hi, welcome. I'm assuming you're an Anti-theist like me and believes mankind would be better off ten times over without religion and many hundreds of years more advanced, which really pisses me off we're so far behind. I disagree with those saying Religion doesn't cause wars or hasn't, 9/11 caused a holy war in a sense and was religiously motivated. If you also look at the major genocides in history you will find they were religious in nature or religious in structure.
Welcome to the forums. You might be going at this a bit too simplisticly.
Welcome to the forum.
Well, I know one particular religion which prescribes eternal war by divine command on those who are not members of that religion.
Not many of us prepared to acknowledge this.
We pretend it isn't true. Even when they are screaming it from the rooftops all the time.
Actually anything can be treated like a religion, and I get knocked around for saying why I hate the word "philosophy", because people get married to them, an idea becomes a cult, like a political party or a religion.
Stalin's communism and Iran's theocracy are both forms of religion. So religion does cause war, one is worship of the state and one is worship of a god.
Ultimately once you strip political labels and religion from all this what is really going on is nothing but our evolutionary strive for resources. We make up labels as artificial terms to make excuses as to why our "in group" should have power. But ultimately it isn't about our religions or politics, it is about our evolutionary drive to survive.
I think the cure to reduce this more, is to stop seeing religious or political labels as solutions, rather we should shift our priorities as a species to common problem solving.
War is over money and power. Everything else is pure bullshit..
Quote from: "AllPurposeAtheist"War is over money and power. Everything else is pure bullshit..
Agreed, because in evolution everything is about gain of resources. The more you have the more opportunity you have to make offspring.
Welcome ! Religion is bullshit .
Quote from: "leo"Welcome ! Religion is bullshit .
Yep, it is "lets pretend" for adults.
Being primates causes wars, and that can't be eliminated. Welcome.
Being alive and with too large a group to all have enough resources causes wars, it's not limited to primates.
Quote from: "The Non Prophet"Hi, welcome. I'm assuming you're an Anti-theist like me and believes mankind would be better off ten times over without religion and many hundreds of years more advanced, which really pisses me off we're so far behind. I disagree with those saying Religion doesn't cause wars or hasn't, 9/11 caused a holy war in a sense and was religiously motivated. If you also look at the major genocides in history you will find they were religious in nature or religious in structure.
How very true, but I would disagree on mankind should be 100s years ahead in technology. It maybe a song, but think of the lyrics to Zager and Evans "In the year 2525".
As for 9/11 caused a "holy 'war'"?, lets have a look at those 2 words,,,,1st, holy as in religious, and 2nd, war as in destruction, so combine the 2 and you have religion condoning "war", so, remove religion and you remove war.
But with that said, if war is over money, and "I want what you got" (greed), then remove money and share the planet's land and there wouldn't be war, imagine this:-
A world (utopia), where people live side-by-side regardless of color or creed, communities helping each other, money isn't needed because you wouldn't have a need for anything, if someone asked a farmer if he/she has a spare goat for goats milk, then, if that farmer has one, then it's given, but if not, then that person would ask elsewhere. A house is taken down during a natural disaster, whole communities whether neighbors or not, pitch in to help rebuild it, food is grown and shared, land is shared, languages taught to each other so there would be no language barrier.
I would rather live in a peaceful utopia than a violent dystopia controlled by technology and violence.
Sure, have a certain amount of technology, but not go over the top, as to have technology completely do everything for us and control our lives, "in the year 2525", "Logun's Run", "The Matrix", "Star Trek", "Star Wars", these may contain futuristic words and images, but keep going the road we are going now and they could well be a reality.
Ponder on this:-
In the year 9595
I'm kinda wonderin' if man is gonna be alive He's taken everything this old earth can give And he ain't put back nothing
Now it's been ten thousand years, man has cried a billion tears For what, he never knew, now man's reign is through".
If we made this planet a peaceful utopia, and completely eradicated religion, then by the time 9595 comes around we WILL! still be alive.
A small joke which may upset a few religious people, but being an atheist, I don't really care :)
Q.. What is a priest?
A.. A priest is someone that everyone calls father, but to his children, they are obliged to call him uncle.
Quote from: "Plu"Being alive and with too large a group to all have enough resources causes wars, it's not limited to primates.
He/she's not talking about lions fighting over the spot nearest the pond. The fact that
we're primates explains our wars.
As should any belief system or economic system which polarizes the population.
Politics has caused more war than religion has, and has killed scores more.
Quote from: "usalabs14"I would rather live in a peaceful utopia than a violent dystopia controlled by technology and violence.
Who wouldn't?
QuoteSure, have a certain amount of technology, but not go over the top, as to have technology completely do everything for us and control our lives
No offense, but that sentiment appears to be at least a hundred years too late. Machines (with special emphasis on computers) are already ubiquitous and have been for some time now. If you live in an industrialized nation, virtually every aspect of your life is dependent on machines of some form or another. Everything from manufacturing, farming, medicine, transportation, communication, etc. Machines don't yet do everything for us *lifts legs to let the Roomba through* but they've taken on a good portion of it. And thank goodness they have. They have spared countless people lives of drudgery and made reality a standard of living that would be otherwise impossible. And you know what? I fervently hope that this process continues on. I <3 technology.
Quote"in the year 2525", "Logun's Run", "The Matrix", "Star Trek", "Star Wars", these may contain futuristic words and images, but keep going the road we are going now and they could well be a reality.
These are fictional movies and while they generally depict possible scenarios, I think people take this stuff too seriously (and that's coming from me, the sci-fi geek) and irrationally fear advances in technology. Not to say that there aren't ethical issues to consider, but they should be considered based from the facts on the ground, not from fictional stories and a misleading availability heuristic.
QuotePolitics has caused more war than religion has, and has killed scores more.
Islam is a political ideology, with a thin veneer of religiosity used to enforce obedience.
The state is Islam, where religion, laws and and politics are inseparable.
BTW, Islam has piled up 270 million corpses since 622 AD, and counting.
Ants fight their own little wars.
Do they have religion?
How do you eliminate ant religion?
Ants worship their queen. But taking that away makes them all die, so that's not much better :p
Quote from: "Plu"Ants worship their queen. But taking that away makes them all die, so that's not much better :p
So to get rid of religion, we have to kill them all? I think that'd work with people.
Quote from: "Paradox"Quote from: "usalabs14"First, I've been an atheist since I can remember, and I believe in one world, one unity, meaning, total peace and everyone living and helping each other, no religion, no weapons, no borders, this planet is for everyone, regardless of color or creed.
Look at history and the present, wars happen because of religion, Hitler persecuted the Jews, the Irish fought each other (Catholic against Protestant), everyone says their region is the truth, and war breaks out because of it, look at most of the so called cults and organizations that have formed since as early as 1815 all based on religion, and the wars that are caused are all fought for the sake of religion.
Think about this, if current technology permitted us to travel the universe and found a very primitive planet, but it's inhabitants are socially acceptable, but we showed them something that's 1000 years ahead of their time, they would consider us gods, because the technology wouldn't even be thought of, and we wrote a book explaining would "could" happen if they didn't change their ways (much as the USA are telling Iraq), but someone saw that book and found out we are as human as they are and can be hurt, thus a group of people wanted to keep peace and decided these so called "gods" are not wanted and did the only thing they could do at the time, and since then, the book as been re-written, written again, words twisted, and re-written again and again, and over the centuries, the REAL truth has been completely wiped out.
As it's said, keep telling the same lie, and it becomes indistinguishable from the truth, and people would believe the various versions and make up their own meanings to them.
So, to conclude, if this world was totally without religion, there would be peace, and tranquility, everyone helping each other, there would be no famine, because countries would help each other, nobody would be helpless, as the strong would help the weak, people would be able to travel across countries with no boundaries, everyone would be able to communicate regardless of where they life, because people would teach each other their languages , THIS!! is the world as it should be, maybe it'll happen in 10,000 years when mankind has finally near but wiped themselves out, and the true people of peace will grow.
Every religion except MY religion causes war. My religion is a religion of peace.
You say that it is not do you? Meet me at 12:30 AM on 03/15/2013 and I will show you a piece of my mind... WITH MY FIST!
No but seriously, religions do not cause wars in and of themselves. Competing interests cause wars. Religions are not innately competing interest unless outlined in their core theology.... which sufficient for your argument, many if not most religions have a non-compete clause somewhere in their contracts.
They have done in the past and could well do in the future.
(Spanish inquisition, The Crusades, many conflicts in the middle east, to name a few that were entirely religiously motivated)
Don't just discuss it in pen, pick up the sword!
I don't think swords are going to cut it anymore in this day and age. Science has long since moved us beyond those.
Can't we all just get along? No? Well fuck you! Get along or I'll kill you all! :evil:
Quote from: "usalabs14"First, I've been an atheist since I can remember, and I believe in one world, one unity, meaning, total peace and everyone living and helping each other, no religion, no weapons, no borders, this planet is for everyone, regardless of color or creed.
Look at history and the present, wars happen because of religion, Hitler persecuted the Jews, the Irish fought each other (Catholic against Protestant), everyone says their region is the truth, and war breaks out because of it, look at most of the so called cults and organizations that have formed since as early as 1815 all based on religion, and the wars that are caused are all fought for the sake of religion.
Think about this, if current technology permitted us to travel the universe and found a very primitive planet, but it's inhabitants are socially acceptable, but we showed them something that's 1000 years ahead of their time, they would consider us gods, because the technology wouldn't even be thought of, and we wrote a book explaining would "could" happen if they didn't change their ways (much as the USA are telling Iraq), but someone saw that book and found out we are as human as they are and can be hurt, thus a group of people wanted to keep peace and decided these so called "gods" are not wanted and did the only thing they could do at the time, and since then, the book as been re-written, written again, words twisted, and re-written again and again, and over the centuries, the REAL truth has been completely wiped out.
As it's said, keep telling the same lie, and it becomes indistinguishable from the truth, and people would believe the various versions and make up their own meanings to them.
So, to conclude, if this world was totally without religion, there would be peace, and tranquility, everyone helping each other, there would be no famine, because countries would help each other, nobody would be helpless, as the strong would help the weak, people would be able to travel across countries with no boundaries, everyone would be able to communicate regardless of where they life, because people would teach each other their languages , THIS!! is the world as it should be, maybe it'll happen in 10,000 years when mankind has finally near but wiped themselves out, and the true people of peace will grow.
I really wish people would take their anti-psychotics before posting on this forum.
Religion will continue to grow less important in future generations lives. As long as we don't allow church states science will continue to marginalize religion.
Religion is a tool of humans to control other humans .. the greed and hate and envy
still exist without religion .. Red China has outlawed religious gatherings but that does not mean I would want to be a citizen .
The best way to create a human utopia is to limit the number of baby's born , how this happens is a mystery to me but sometime in the future that is what has to happen to save the planet and create a more content population.
There is no way to create a human utopia. Utopian societies only exist in science fiction.
QuoteThere is no way to create a human utopia. Utopian societies only exist in science fiction
.
Utopianism refers to the various ways in which people think about, depict, and attempt to create a perfect society. Utopian thought deals with morality, ethics, psychology, and political philosophy, and often originates from the belief that reason and intelligence can bring about the betterment of society. It is usually characterized by optimism that an ideal society is possible. Utopianism plays an important role in motivating social and political change.
Quote from: "usalabs14"First, I've been an atheist since I can remember, and I believe in one world, one unity, meaning, total peace and everyone living and helping each other, no religion, no weapons, no borders, this planet is for everyone, regardless of color or creed.
Admirable. Despite being admirable though, it's not very realistic considering human nature.
Quote from: "usalabs14"Look at history and the present, wars happen because of religion, Hitler persecuted the Jews, the Irish fought each other (Catholic against Protestant), everyone says their region is the truth, and war breaks out because of it, look at most of the so called cults and organizations that have formed since as early as 1815 all based on religion, and the wars that are caused are all fought for the sake of religion.
Saying stuff like "religion causes war" is, sorry to say, missing the point. War is a state of conflict between two parties, yes, but the underlying causes for war are
always about aggression; be it religion, political ideology, greed (fight over resources), or what have you ... they are mere triggers for a state of war. It's very possible to have 2 competing populations based on aforementioned without war, as long as there's tolerance. Although this isn't even a general rule, since there could be more factors for war (conflict), mind you.
Quote from: "usalabs14"Think about this, if current technology permitted us to travel the universe and found a very primitive planet, but it's inhabitants are socially acceptable, but we showed them something that's 1000 years ahead of their time, they would consider us gods, because the technology wouldn't even be thought of, and we wrote a book explaining would "could" happen if they didn't change their ways (much as the USA are telling Iraq), but someone saw that book and found out we are as human as they are and can be hurt, thus a group of people wanted to keep peace and decided these so called "gods" are not wanted and did the only thing they could do at the time, and since then, the book as been re-written, written again, words twisted, and re-written again and again, and over the centuries, the REAL truth has been completely wiped out.
I don't follow this hypothetical scenario. Apart from that anything technologically complex enough and without understanding becomes indistinguishable from magic sort of deal.
Quote from: "usalabs14"As it's said, keep telling the same lie, and it becomes indistinguishable from the truth, and people would believe the various versions and make up their own meanings to them.
A sad trait of weak-willed humans.
Quote from: "usalabs14"So, to conclude, if this world was totally without religion, there would be peace, and tranquility, everyone helping each other, there would be no famine, because countries would help each other, nobody would be helpless, as the strong would help the weak, people would be able to travel across countries with no boundaries, everyone would be able to communicate regardless of where they life, because people would teach each other their languages , THIS!! is the world as it should be, maybe it'll happen in 10,000 years when mankind has finally near but wiped themselves out, and the true people of peace will grow.
We'd find some other shit to fight over.