HuffPo Writer: I Will not Have Children So I Will not Spread my White Privilege (http://www.thesocialmemo.org/2015/06/huffpo-writer-i-will-not-have-children.html)
QuoteAli Michael, a writer for the Huffington Post, sometimes wishes she wasn't white. And she decided in her 20s that she would not "have biological children because I didn't want to propagate my privilege biologically."
In an article titled, "I Sometimes Don't Want to Be White Either," Ms. Michael details her feelings on being white and the Rachel Dolezal story.
Ms. Michael writes of Dolezal, "She is stuck in the immersion/emersion stage, in which White people, having learned extensively about the realities of racism, and the ugly history of White supremacy in the U.S., "immerse" themselves in trying to figure out how to be White in our society, and "emerge" with a new relationship to Whiteness."
She concludes, "her way of dealing with the pain of the reality of racism, was to deny her own Whiteness and to become Black."
Ms. Michael notes that Dolezal is not alone, however. In fact, she went through it herself and identifies with Dolezal.
"I definitely experienced this," she explains. "There was a time in my 20s when everything I learned about the history of racism made me hate myself, my Whiteness, my ancestors... and my descendants. I remember deciding that I couldn't have biological children because I didn't want to propagate my privilege biologically."
Thus, Ms. Michael details, she will never have children, but she may adopt.
"If I was going to pass on my privilege, I wanted to pass it on to someone who doesn't have racial privilege; so I planned to adopt. I disliked my Whiteness, but I disliked the Whiteness of other White people more," she writes.
I was going to write this long post about my thoughts on white guilt and how/why to approach it, yadda yadda yadda, but then I realized that as a white person, any answer I give on this is only going to inspire rage. So I decided on a more sensible response:
(http://cdn.meme.am/instances/28883607.jpg)
The way I see it is everyone reacts differently to the atrocities of their recent ancestors. Germans and their ban on anything remotely Nazi, many Turks refusal and outright anger to dare mention the Armenian genocide, the Japanese and the issue of of the mass rape and murder of Koreans and Chinese... everyone of them is dealing with their past in one way or another.
So if one wants to be ashamed of their "whiteness" or privileged... by all means, be ashamed of it. So long as you do not lie about who you are, or hurt anyone in the process, I see nothing wrong with being ashamed of the actions of your parents, grandparents, or society at large.
What is white privilege? Could someone explain it?
(http://magiclampoon.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/10-Foot-Pole.gif)
Quote from: pr126 on June 21, 2015, 02:55:42 AM
What is white privilege? Could someone explain it?
In simplest terms, it's the fact that you can do drugs at a similar or higher rate than blacks, yet make up a much smaller percentage of the jail population. Or walk around a neighbourhood at night and not have an idiot with a gun follow you because you look like a thug. Or assumed you are a terrorist just because your skin is brown and you wear a turban (and thus have a temple of yours shot up). And so on and so forth...
Quote from: Shiranu on June 21, 2015, 02:49:01 AM
So if one wants to be ashamed of their "whiteness" or privileged... by all means, be ashamed of it. So long as you do not lie about who you are, or hurt anyone in the process, I see nothing wrong with being ashamed of the actions of your parents, grandparents, or society at large.
And I find it an absolute ridiculous concept for anyone to take the weight of what their ancestors did. They are not responsible for anything, they didn't choose to be born into a certain type of people.
By this same logic, my German boyfriend should feel guilt over being German generations s on from world war 2?
What matters is what we do here and now, ourselves, not what shit our ancestors did.
Quote from: Shiranu on June 21, 2015, 03:35:02 AM
In simplest terms, it's the fact that you can do drugs at a similar or higher rate than blacks, yet make up a much smaller percentage of the jail population. Or walk around a neighbourhood at night and not have an idiot with a gun follow you because you look like a thug. Or assumed you are a terrorist just because your skin is brown and you wear a turban (and thus have a temple of yours shot up). And so on and so forth...
well, this explains it then.
Apparently there are separate laws for whites and coloreds. I assume that this is only happens in the USA?
Here in the UK we have similar systems, one for Muslims and one for non Muslims.
For example, bigamy (http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/3234/muslim-polygamists-welfare-benefits) is an offense only for non Muslims.
To mention just one. There are a few more.
QuoteAnd I find it an absolute ridiculous concept for anyone to take the weight of what their ancestors did.
Fair enough, but the majority of the world doesn't think that way... and I personally see no reason that should change. Blood is important, to try to make ourselves out to be any more than the animal we really are is cheating yourself out of a large part of the human experience imo.
QuoteThey are not responsible for anything, they didn't choose to be born into a certain type of people.
It's not about responsibility, it's about sorrow and respect. It's about saying, "We do not agree with what Group A did to Group B, and we want to show you the respect they never did.".
I consider myself a good bit a loner, but at the same time I realise we are group animals at our core. Just because it doesn't click for me doesn't mean I should therefor think everyone else is stupid and only I have the right idea on how humans should actually behave.
That said, it's also 3:30 in the morning so explaining how I feel about that is pretty difficult.
I think the "white guilt" thing is a supposed national conscience thing alluding that many if not most whites have. The reality is that several people have been fortunate enough to be able to reach millions through media and have pronounced that there is a thing called "white guilt" and now some people assume it is widespread when in fact if probably barely exists.
No doubt the idea that many have "white guilt" probably enrages racists into thinking they must counter with more racism.
Quote from: pr126 on June 21, 2015, 03:52:59 AM
Apparently there are separate laws for whites and coloreds. I assume that this is only happens in the USA?
Not in the literal letter of the law, but our prison system houses a disproportionate amount of black people. Our prison system in general houses a lot of people who don't belong in there for all manner of petty crimes. It's not that uncommon to find a woman serving time because she let her drug dealing boyfriend (who she may not have even known was a drug dealer) crash at her apartment, or a guy to go to prison simply for riding in the same car as someone who had an illegal firearm. What adds to the problem is blacks are far more likely to be stopped by the police or have their property illegally searched, meaning these minor infractions are also a lot more likely to be discovered than if they were white. Lastly, our prison system has become strangely privatized, and private industry is allowed to contract prison labor at an egregious, slave-labor wage (often less than a dollar per hour), meaning that the prison industry has incentive to seek out cheap labor that's easy to exploit because after all, people in prison don't take leave days to deal with family problems or illnesses, they don't show up late or leave early, and if they don't cooperate, they just get thrown into inhumane solitary confinement. What capitalist wouldn't want such a labor pool? We just found a way to reinvent slavery is all, and black people fall into that system far easier than white people simply because they're often poorer to start out with.
In short, our laws apply equally to everyone, but they aren't
applied equally to everyone.
Quote from: pr126 on June 21, 2015, 02:55:42 AM
What is white privilege? Could someone explain it?
Pick up any US high school history book and read it.
Quote from: Munch on June 21, 2015, 03:41:47 AM
And I find it an absolute ridiculous concept for anyone to take the weight of what their ancestors did. They are not responsible for anything, they didn't choose to be born into a certain type of people.
By this same logic, my German boyfriend should feel guilt over being German generations s on from world war 2?
Well one difference between your German boyfriend and the white/black thing is the white/black thing is still happening today. So its not completely about what our ancestors did. Its also about what our peers are still doing now.
I could further into this but like the others I'm going to opt for the 10ft pole on this one.
I'll jump in here, no 10 foot pole necessary.
Race is a social construct (made by a white guy culture) based on caste and control, and the concept that lighter people are superior to darker people.
I know that's quite a provocative statement, a friend posted this after the Charleston shootings the other day, and my first instinct was to be all "psh. Please". And then I thought about it for a bit.
I'll also tackle white privilege. When you grow up white, more doors are open to you from the beginning, dictating your path in life. You take those doors for granted because you don't know any different. They're just open.
You assume that people of other races have those same doors open for them because, again, you don't know any different.
I think this is an incredibly important thing to talk openly about. No tiptoeing, honest dialog.
Quote from: Mermaid on June 21, 2015, 12:54:41 PM
I'll also tackle white privilege. When you grow up white, more doors are open to you from the beginning, dictating your path in life. You take those doors for granted because you don't know any different. They're just open.
You assume that people of other races have those same doors open for them because, again, you don't know any different.
It took me a long time to realize this, but I find it true.
I think the notion that I should either literally or figuratively spend the majority of my free time wailing and gnashing my teeth over white guilt and emotionally flagellating myself over what white people have done to those of any color, I just can't. That won't make things right. It won't make inner city schools better or our justice system more fair.
As for having actual feelings of "guilt" over the way life turned out for me based on my skin color, I didn't ask for it. I didn't be ask to be born in a modernized, Western country either instead of Southern Sudan. I didn't ask to be born human and not a chicken on a poultry farm. Guilt and privilege are relative. Healing only works if it moves forward rather than dwelling on the past, as long as we don't forget the past and understand why we need to heal in the first place.
Quote from: TomFoolery on June 21, 2015, 01:40:23 PM
gnashing my teeth………. flagellating myself
Since the very first time I read, "gnashing of the teeth" in the babble, I have loved that term and flagellating is a word that should be an automatic 100 internet points but "flagellating myself" just makes me laugh too hard.
Quote from: aitm on June 21, 2015, 02:21:28 PM
Since the very first time I read, "gnashing of the teeth" in the babble, I have loved that term and flagellating is a word that should be an automatic 100 internet points but "flagellating myself" just makes me laugh too hard.
It does require careful application but in rare instance can be wildly appropriate, especially because there's always a handful of people that think you're talking about farting. :)
Quote from: TomFoolery on June 21, 2015, 01:40:23 PM
It took me a long time to realize this, but I find it true.
I think the notion that I should either literally or figuratively spend the majority of my free time wailing and gnashing my teeth over white guilt and emotionally flagellating myself over what white people have done to those of any color, I just can't. That won't make things right. It won't make inner city schools better or our justice system more fair.
As for having actual feelings of "guilt" over the way life turned out for me based on my skin color, I didn't ask for it. I didn't be ask to be born in a modernized, Western country either instead of Southern Sudan. I didn't ask to be born human and not a chicken on a poultry farm. Guilt and privilege are relative. Healing only works if it moves forward rather than dwelling on the past, as long as we don't forget the past and understand why we need to heal in the first place.
I agree, there's nothing productive about open display of guilt. What is productive is acknowledging the root of the issue and embracing it. People get so defensive that this can only happen with generations. At least that's the way I see it.
Quote from: aitm on June 21, 2015, 02:21:28 PM
Since the very first time I read, "gnashing of the teeth" in the babble, I have loved that term and flagellating is a word that should be an automatic 100 internet points but "flagellating myself" just makes me laugh too hard.
It's very rude to do in public.
Just think how guilty I feel being part White, Cherokee, Choctaw, after what the whites did to them. But I was saved as a young boy by becoming a blood brother of the Cherokee Nation and don't like Choctaws now----just kidding----I'm white privileged and don't like any colored people----sorry! Couldn't resist the irony of thinking I was white privileged. Bigotry is crazy period, I like almost everyone that is female. :biggrin2:
Quote from: Solitary on June 21, 2015, 03:08:09 PM
Just think how guilty I feel being part White, Cherokee, Choctaw, after what the whites did to them. But I was saved as a young boy by becoming a blood brother of the Cherokee Nation and don't like Choctaws now----
*Singing a song* can you guess which one?
Quote from: Shiranu on June 21, 2015, 03:35:02 AM
In simplest terms, it's the fact that you can do drugs at a similar or higher rate than blacks, yet make up a much smaller percentage of the jail population. Or walk around a neighbourhood at night and not have an idiot with a gun follow you because you look like a thug. Or assumed you are a terrorist just because your skin is brown and you wear a turban (and thus have a temple of yours shot up). And so on and so forth...
(http://i.imgur.com/c6qLc71.jpg)
In order to feel guilt or pride I need to feel responsible. I don't feel responsible for the actions of my ancestors, or typically the actions of others, therefore it doesn't matter to me whether my ancestors were heroes or villains. I can't be responsible for the actions of people who died before I was born. People like Ali Michael have stronger feelings of group affiliation and identity and therefore experience associated guilt for the actions of their white ancestors, just as people of Irish heritage who march in St Patrick's day parades experience pride.
I certainly recognize that I have advantages due to being white and male but I didn't create, or feel responsible for, these biases. I am only responsible for perpetuating them. I strive to treat others with the way I would like to be treated and support efforts to make the world more fair. When I fail to do so is when I feel guilt.
(http://mylittlefacewhen.com/media/f/img/mlfw1396_Derpy_NO.jpg)
All i'll say is I'm a white guy who is automatically assumed racist by people around me and called the devil for what my race did, add more to it that I'm an atheist and I get called the worst person ever! I have no white guilt, I simply exist.
Quote from: GrinningYMIR on June 22, 2015, 10:59:21 AM
(http://mylittlefacewhen.com/media/f/img/mlfw1396_Derpy_NO.jpg)
All i'll say is I'm a white guy who is automatically assumed racist by people around me and called the devil for what my race did, add more to it that I'm an atheist and I get called the worst person ever! I have no white guilt, I simply exist.
Damn, where the hell do you work????
Quote from: Mike Cl on June 22, 2015, 12:00:55 PM
Damn, where the hell do you work????
This... I have never had anyone assume I am racist because of the colour of my skin ( other than actual white people who think I am one of them) or put me down for being an atheist. And I live in the centre of Texas...
I work with this tall white guy that is really racist... he lived in Georgia for a while when he was going to college and said everyone there was racist, so I guess it rubbed off on to him.
He's like a big tall and fat racist giraffe.
Quote from: TomFoolery on June 21, 2015, 01:40:23 PM
It took me a long time to realize this, but I find it true.
I think the notion that I should either literally or figuratively spend the majority of my free time wailing and gnashing my teeth over white guilt and emotionally flagellating myself over what white people have done to those of any color, I just can't. That won't make things right. It won't make inner city schools better or our justice system more fair.
As for having actual feelings of "guilt" over the way life turned out for me based on my skin color, I didn't ask for it. I didn't be ask to be born in a modernized, Western country either instead of Southern Sudan. I didn't ask to be born human and not a chicken on a poultry farm. Guilt and privilege are relative. Healing only works if it moves forward rather than dwelling on the past, as long as we don't forget the past and understand why we need to heal in the first place.
Having grown up in multi-ethnic communities, I have long recognized the idea of white privilege (though I didn't have a word for it for most of that time). It was just self-evident that white people have an advantage in our society. I have also witnessed police brutality against minorities when similar situations would not have not occurred had the people in question been white.
However, I do not have "white guilt". I just happen to be white; its not something I can control. For all of my politically conscious life, I have supported and fought for the idea of racial equality.
This is why I side with Senator Bullworth. We all have to fuck each other so much that we can't tell what color anybody is.
The guilt of my "white" ancestors died when they did - much as the guilt of my German ancestors died with them. I am a completely different person than they are and see nothing of value in holding children accountable for the sins of the father, so to speak.
Much like in a typical romantic relationship, drudging up the past over and over again will deprive you of a future. This is especially true of societies claiming to be "progressive." Yes, white people in the past did some pretty horrible things - so did people of African, Asian, Middle Eastern, and Latin Descent (etc...). However,the "white race" does not carry such a burden alone, and given human nature, these tendencies will not go away, even if the white race ever does.
Take a look at the feuds in Middle Eastern countries. One man kills another, and the children of the deceased grow up to exact revenge. When they kill another, then the children of the deceased man grow to exact revenge. Repeat ad nauseum, and you have Group A always fighting Group B over the course of centuries. They have no future because they keep drudging up the past. If one of the original perpetrators had been Sunni and the victim Shiite, then the Shiites might be tempted to subjugate all Sunnis to "Sunni Guilt." It's ridiculous.
Much like a black person hates to be judged by their skin, it should come as no surprise that a white person hates being judged by their skin. You want racism to go away? Then try seeing the person as they really are without obscuring the view with who their ancestors were and the actions taken.
Let's not bring tradition into this or the fact that so much of the world believes the child should be responsible for the actions of the parent. On an atheist forum, we know full well that doing things because they are tradition is a thoughtless impulse capable of tragic consequences. We also know that majority opinion is no indicator of validity in an idea. Remember how much of the world is religious and squabbling over these nonsensical beliefs.
The world needs to learn how to let the past go. We can learn from our past, but we don't need to live there.